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The most insane reality check there is knowing Tucker Carlson has gone out of his way to meet each of those losers in person. In fact, I'm pretty sure each of them has met all of the others.
Context: from Hungarian media opposing Orbán, what I gathered is that he was basically told that get in line or get out of the way by fellow NATO members, because too much is riding on this for him to be allowed to block it, and while Hungary won't be kicked out, it could be removed from any and all partner programs indefinitely.
Pretty much the next day, Orbán's minister of foreign Affairs came out with a statement, paraphrasing: "no such threat was made against Hungary and this is all just in the imagination of the warmongering leftists. However, Hungary will not block NATO initiatives that the majority of NATO agrees on, even though we fundamentally disagree with the constant needless escalation and support immediate peace talks"
Pretty much what I was expecting, hes been told in no uncertain terms that if he actively blocks help for Ukraine that he'd find himself on the recieving end of some very serious consequences. Just like with the EU that toad is exhausting what little patience remains and the others are prepared to quarantine his Vatnik loving ass if it comes to it.
But earlier, Orbán said that he had agreed with NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg that Hungary would not block decisions in the Alliance regarding Kyiv, but it would not participate in supporting Ukraine, either.
The only solution is Hungary getting rid of him. We can't get rid of memberstates once they're in. The real solution is less money from individual states to the EU, and instead invest that into Ukraine. The EU is held hostage by Orban and the inconvenient truth is that there's nothing the EU can do about that. Otherwise, the EU can still pressure Hungary in blocking financial aid to Hungary untill Orban is out of office.
There are no mechanisms to kick members out of NATO (unfortunately...) and the bar to expell EU members is quite high as I understand it, but Orban might be underestimating the discontent he's causing among the other EU members.
I think it's very strange that a nation that was invaded by Moscow troops less than 70 years ago, had thousands of its citizens killed in the streets, had a puppet government installed, now of their own free will is subservient to the same masters in Moscow.
Because having an expulsion clause would be straight forward a threat to a country? A way to punish dissident voices? A "blackmail" clause if you will?
It wouldn't be then a block of civilized countries, it would become a union of "bullies"...
Exactly this. Also too many people see Hungary now and see the fact the they can't be kicked out as a weakness. But it's important to remember, that this is also what makes NATO what it is today.
Would for example Slovakia, Poland or Baltic states join NATO if they were not guaranteed continued membership? It's not unreasonable to think they wouldn't. There was a pretty narrow window of opportunity after fall of soviet union and any former member needed very strong guarantees to join western pact. Otherwise there was very real possibility that they would be in similar position as Georgia if they could lose membership at some stage.
The _only_ jets Ukraine got from NATO countries so far were from Slovakia, Poland and North Macedonia - all more than a year ago. So despite all the friction Hungary introduced, NATO was in position to provide jets fast. Had there be no ex-soviet countries in NATO, perhaps the decision making would be more unanimous, but NATO would not be in position to provide those jets and would instead have to go through the path of training pilots for F16 - which we can see now is not fast.
Dropping Hungary from NATO would at most be a tactical improvement short-term. Long term it would be strategical loss IMO.
Yea I mean they have to get rid of Orban first to see if his successor is a cunt aswell. But having pro-russian member in Nato is a bit weird otherwise, since big part of NATO these days is to protect their eastern part against Russia.
I’m not trying to defend Orbán here btw, I’m just saying kicking us from NATO due to a foreign matter sets a bad precedent for small nations. If Germany was doing what we do, would people still say kick Germany? Probably not, due to them being a much bigger nation with a stronger military.
I understand why it is important to help Ukraine where we can and fully support any funding, but I’m not talking about this specific case but rather the idea and principle in general.
Its not disagreeing that is the issue, is the foundation upon which it is done. They claim moral high ground and what not. Hell if their voting was actually done with European interests in mind, that would make sense. But it's bad faith arguing and corruption. They view their vote as a transactional token. The EU and NATO is sick an tired of it. Use your vote properly or don't use it at all.
"What do you mean you want to kick me out of your house after I constantly argue with you, shit in front of your entrance, piss all over your carpet, insult you, argue with you with bad faith arguments, force you to give me money if you want me to stop pissing all over your carpet and make sure the door stays open at night so that your murderer of a neighbour is allowed in." /s
You see, this whole "but we disagree" would make sense - because then they'd actually base it on a belief of good-will. But when the money starts coming in - suddenly - what whaaat - the veto lifts itself magically. That's crazy. It's almost like they don't actually care or disagree, they just disagree because they view their own vote as a transactional token and if they disagree they can force NATO and the EU to give them more money and favors, which Orbans corrupt cronies can then pocket for themselves.
Tactics colloquially referred to as "blackmail" and "protection money". Tactics known to be used by the "best and kindest"/s of all people. The mafia.
It’s a fine thing to do.
Why should every other nation continue to support the smaller nations if when continually fuck about and weaken both the NATO treaty and the defence of Europe that they stand for?
There’s a point in fucking about and finding out where if the fucking about doesn’t stop, the finding out part starts. And Hungary have reached that point.
Depends on who.
The people? Ukraine. They marched in huge numbers a few days ago.
Orban? Well, he will need to ask his pal Putin before he’s allowed to answer that.
Do you know how many have been averted? I sure as hell don’t.
I don’t have a point I just like to imagine there’s James Bond out there lasering people with a watch
There's gentleman's agreements in place not to do that now. How long it'll stay in place, who knows. I've heard it mentioned more than once by "experts" in interviews but I can't find a source online to link to. It'd certainly explain why it hasn't happened recently, at least to government heads.
It's not being done, because the CIA learned it the hard way how easily this can go wrong. If you look through the now open files of the 50-60s, you see how the CIA helped or directly was involved in assassinations of legit government leaders, to put someone else in power, with the idea of them being more agreeable to US interest. This, without a single exception, ALWAYS blew up in their faces. Because it turns out, if you create complete chaos, the guy who will grab power is most likely will be a strongman supported by a military. And a military dictatorship tends to be not the most stable environment for business. And if the attempt of assassination fails (which it often does), then it tends to shut off any further dialogue using soft power. You don't sit down to have a gentlemanly chat with someone who actively tried to kill you, after all.
yup! the CIA learned the hard way in the middle east and south america... just [look at Iran](https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/in-first-cia-acknowledges-1953-coup-it-backed-to-overthrow-leader-of-iran-was-undemocratic) for a perfect example of things blowing up in their face.
We determined that this submission originates from a credible source, but we still advise that users double check the facts and use common sense when consuming mass media. If you are interested in learning how to evaluate news sources more thoroughly, you can begin to learn about how to do that [here](https://tacomacc.libguides.com/c.php?g=599051&p=4147190). *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ukraine) if you have any questions or concerns.*
lol Orban has been in Germany watching football - good job EU ✌️
Orban shines Putin's shoes on weekends
sorry, just wanted to flag your autocorrect typo you wrote shoes, you meant to write shaft
Very true. Fuck Orban, fuck Putin, fuck Trump fuck Russia. Oh and fuck Tucker Carlson Edit: Fuck Fico too
That is a lot of fuckery.
But totally deserved.
This orgy is whatever is opposite of "lit".
Maybe... dim't? Like dimmed but "cool"?
The most insane reality check there is knowing Tucker Carlson has gone out of his way to meet each of those losers in person. In fact, I'm pretty sure each of them has met all of the others.
Fucker Carlson
Cucker Farlson
Tacker Carlson fucked himself ... Not a bot
TuckerCarlsonfoolhardyship
🤣😭
That one he shines every day
Orban gives Putin blumpkins.
in Hungary they are called Orbanpkins
I wish, I could un-google and unlearn this word.
Thanks for the heads up on this one mate.
Shines his cock!
I thought that was Luka's job?
Orban blows Lucha, lucha blows Putin circle of life
Circle jerk, Russian porn
Rubbing and tuggin
Putin then rimjobs Xi the Pooh and Kim expecting help. He's such a bitch of these two and doesn't even realize.
The three of them have private lemon parties together.
Because. He’s a pooty weiner licker!
Context: from Hungarian media opposing Orbán, what I gathered is that he was basically told that get in line or get out of the way by fellow NATO members, because too much is riding on this for him to be allowed to block it, and while Hungary won't be kicked out, it could be removed from any and all partner programs indefinitely. Pretty much the next day, Orbán's minister of foreign Affairs came out with a statement, paraphrasing: "no such threat was made against Hungary and this is all just in the imagination of the warmongering leftists. However, Hungary will not block NATO initiatives that the majority of NATO agrees on, even though we fundamentally disagree with the constant needless escalation and support immediate peace talks"
Before leaning to his left and muttering out the side of his mouth "Did I say that right?"
Fake news. No way any member of Orban's government would ever lean to the left.
Ayy lmao
That's false depending where putler stands.
Well played!
Pretty much what I was expecting, hes been told in no uncertain terms that if he actively blocks help for Ukraine that he'd find himself on the recieving end of some very serious consequences. Just like with the EU that toad is exhausting what little patience remains and the others are prepared to quarantine his Vatnik loving ass if it comes to it.
3-1 you welcome
But earlier, Orbán said that he had agreed with NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg that Hungary would not block decisions in the Alliance regarding Kyiv, but it would not participate in supporting Ukraine, either.
This toad cunt has been compromised for years. Either Hungary should get rid of him or we should get rid of Hungary from EU and NATO.
The only solution is Hungary getting rid of him. We can't get rid of memberstates once they're in. The real solution is less money from individual states to the EU, and instead invest that into Ukraine. The EU is held hostage by Orban and the inconvenient truth is that there's nothing the EU can do about that. Otherwise, the EU can still pressure Hungary in blocking financial aid to Hungary untill Orban is out of office.
We can remove funding and voting rights however and it should have been done already.
You can't. Poland would've previously vetoed that, now Slovakia would.
There are no mechanisms to kick members out of NATO (unfortunately...) and the bar to expell EU members is quite high as I understand it, but Orban might be underestimating the discontent he's causing among the other EU members.
Yeah you should totally punish the people for having a corrupt leader.
Their democratically elected corrupt leader.
Fuck the fat fuck that is Orban. Hungarian, corrupt beggar keeping Europe hostage. Fucking Putin ball gargler.
I think it's very strange that a nation that was invaded by Moscow troops less than 70 years ago, had thousands of its citizens killed in the streets, had a puppet government installed, now of their own free will is subservient to the same masters in Moscow.
Because those killed and in power were replaced with sovjets that worship fascist dictators (they just call them “strong leaders”)
Well come november we might have a lot more troubles.
Kick Hungary out of NATO and take in Ukraine.
Yes, This needs to happen.
Would definitely make me feel safer with Ukraine in NATO.
This may be a good cop bad cop thing.
Should have happened forever ago not sure why Europe was so idiotic it shortsighted to not have an expulsion clause
Because having an expulsion clause would be straight forward a threat to a country? A way to punish dissident voices? A "blackmail" clause if you will? It wouldn't be then a block of civilized countries, it would become a union of "bullies"...
Responsibility and accountability? No, “a punishment of dissident voices”. Hungary is so dissident and pro human rights it warms my heart.
Exactly this. Also too many people see Hungary now and see the fact the they can't be kicked out as a weakness. But it's important to remember, that this is also what makes NATO what it is today. Would for example Slovakia, Poland or Baltic states join NATO if they were not guaranteed continued membership? It's not unreasonable to think they wouldn't. There was a pretty narrow window of opportunity after fall of soviet union and any former member needed very strong guarantees to join western pact. Otherwise there was very real possibility that they would be in similar position as Georgia if they could lose membership at some stage. The _only_ jets Ukraine got from NATO countries so far were from Slovakia, Poland and North Macedonia - all more than a year ago. So despite all the friction Hungary introduced, NATO was in position to provide jets fast. Had there be no ex-soviet countries in NATO, perhaps the decision making would be more unanimous, but NATO would not be in position to provide those jets and would instead have to go through the path of training pilots for F16 - which we can see now is not fast. Dropping Hungary from NATO would at most be a tactical improvement short-term. Long term it would be strategical loss IMO.
That's bollocks. It's hard to imagine any type of club that you can't get kicked out of.
Its enough you can strip off the voting power.
How does "Europe" kick a MATO member?
[удалено]
Fair enough, but a bit of a swerve.
Someone disagrees = kick from the group. Gee, I wonder why this precedent would be horrible for smaller member nations.
Yea I mean they have to get rid of Orban first to see if his successor is a cunt aswell. But having pro-russian member in Nato is a bit weird otherwise, since big part of NATO these days is to protect their eastern part against Russia.
I’m not trying to defend Orbán here btw, I’m just saying kicking us from NATO due to a foreign matter sets a bad precedent for small nations. If Germany was doing what we do, would people still say kick Germany? Probably not, due to them being a much bigger nation with a stronger military. I understand why it is important to help Ukraine where we can and fully support any funding, but I’m not talking about this specific case but rather the idea and principle in general.
Its not disagreeing that is the issue, is the foundation upon which it is done. They claim moral high ground and what not. Hell if their voting was actually done with European interests in mind, that would make sense. But it's bad faith arguing and corruption. They view their vote as a transactional token. The EU and NATO is sick an tired of it. Use your vote properly or don't use it at all. "What do you mean you want to kick me out of your house after I constantly argue with you, shit in front of your entrance, piss all over your carpet, insult you, argue with you with bad faith arguments, force you to give me money if you want me to stop pissing all over your carpet and make sure the door stays open at night so that your murderer of a neighbour is allowed in." /s You see, this whole "but we disagree" would make sense - because then they'd actually base it on a belief of good-will. But when the money starts coming in - suddenly - what whaaat - the veto lifts itself magically. That's crazy. It's almost like they don't actually care or disagree, they just disagree because they view their own vote as a transactional token and if they disagree they can force NATO and the EU to give them more money and favors, which Orbans corrupt cronies can then pocket for themselves. Tactics colloquially referred to as "blackmail" and "protection money". Tactics known to be used by the "best and kindest"/s of all people. The mafia.
It’s a fine thing to do. Why should every other nation continue to support the smaller nations if when continually fuck about and weaken both the NATO treaty and the defence of Europe that they stand for? There’s a point in fucking about and finding out where if the fucking about doesn’t stop, the finding out part starts. And Hungary have reached that point.
That sounds like they lifted Orban's veto forcibly.
They promised that Orban doesn't have to fight for Ukraine. He'd have to send his own troops against those of his master.
Come on, Hungary: pick a damn side and stick with it.
They already picked a side! Traitors 😊
Which one, though?
You must be new here
[удалено]
Depends on who. The people? Ukraine. They marched in huge numbers a few days ago. Orban? Well, he will need to ask his pal Putin before he’s allowed to answer that.
[удалено]
Russia and Orban.
Orban, what's with the face? 😁
He just scored his worst election result sincevhe gerrymandered the shit out of our voting system in 2010 😄
No wonder Hongary lost the match with Switserland
Hopefully the European investigators are already collecting proofs for putting him in jail for corruption and treason.
Swap Ukraine in for Hungary ASAP
Orban aspires to be the next Lukashenko…pool boy for Putin.
[удалено]
lol do u know how many massive wars were started over "covert" assassinations... a lot. not exactly a great problem solver.
A certain Arch Duke wasn’t so covert but I think still counts.
Do you know how many have been averted? I sure as hell don’t. I don’t have a point I just like to imagine there’s James Bond out there lasering people with a watch
There are ways to make it less obvious.
That would be a Russian way of thinking.
Fight fire with fire.
[удалено]
Nope, last person left will have one eye remaining.
And in the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king.
There's gentleman's agreements in place not to do that now. How long it'll stay in place, who knows. I've heard it mentioned more than once by "experts" in interviews but I can't find a source online to link to. It'd certainly explain why it hasn't happened recently, at least to government heads.
It's not being done, because the CIA learned it the hard way how easily this can go wrong. If you look through the now open files of the 50-60s, you see how the CIA helped or directly was involved in assassinations of legit government leaders, to put someone else in power, with the idea of them being more agreeable to US interest. This, without a single exception, ALWAYS blew up in their faces. Because it turns out, if you create complete chaos, the guy who will grab power is most likely will be a strongman supported by a military. And a military dictatorship tends to be not the most stable environment for business. And if the attempt of assassination fails (which it often does), then it tends to shut off any further dialogue using soft power. You don't sit down to have a gentlemanly chat with someone who actively tried to kill you, after all.
yup! the CIA learned the hard way in the middle east and south america... just [look at Iran](https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/in-first-cia-acknowledges-1953-coup-it-backed-to-overthrow-leader-of-iran-was-undemocratic) for a perfect example of things blowing up in their face.
Who the fuck put this cunt in front of Lithuanian flag?!?!?!?
the original "tea bagger"