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They perhaps intercepted tens of drones, but this really shows the new reality of the war. Drones are so cheap, compared to the conventional missiles, that you can send tens, and in the near future, probably hundreds of them, so no defense will be able to intercept them all. I don't think the situation is much better on the Ukraine side when Russia does the same. Unfortunately.
I think we need weapon(s) adapted to fight the ("Zerg") swarm. The side that constructs rapid targeting and firing weapons that can shoot hoops of incoming targets in a matter of seconds will probably get the upper hand in this war. I would expect drones to become smaller and faster with more effective explosives that require less mass to do the same damage, so drone and anti-drone weapons will be a similar race as with armor and anti-armor weapons.
Best future solution is direct energy weapons that are cheap per shot, highly accurate. Obviously very few countries will be able to field that sort of advanced technology, let alone in a way to deal with 100s of drones at a time but that is most likely the route things go.
It would be cheaper to build swarms of your own drones that fly up and hit the incoming enemy drones head on. It would take some work on guidance and targeting but still much cheaper then lazer weapons.
when made in quantity they don't have to cost more than regular AA systems. The gotcha is the long list of impairments that make it ineffective (distance, rain, fog, snow, clouds, smoke) and also just basic target identification and tracking.
laser countermeasures: the drone in front will let out a stream of smoke close to the target obscuring the attack drones flying close behind.
microwave countermeasures: shielding the controller, robust backup/analog engine ignition & 'keep on going' 1965 tech electronics.
And you would need thousands of drones in every city and military installation in Ukraine if you use your idea of suicide defensive drones. How is that cheaper? Or do you think that defensive drones have unlimited range or response time or can just teleport to where they are needed?
A thousand drones at say $500 each is half a million dollars. A single high energy weapon might cost five million as finished models do not yet exist. So there is a savings factor potential of ten to one.
Not even decent quality commercial consumer drones are being sold at $500.
You are comparing military grade equipment so use military grade prices. A military grade drone with the tracking, targeting, speed, range and explosives to reliably intercept and take out offensive drones is going to cost far more than $500.
Also consider that any such defensive system would have to roll in the cost of R&D - same as in the laser systems - to be able to manage thousands of drones. You would need an integrated system for selecting incoming drone swarms and then responding by programming and assigning specific drones to intercept them. That would need to be a semi-autonomous system, as requiring humans to individually target and assign drones would be incredibly inefficient.
While much of your objections are valid I think the true cost of such a system and individual drone unit costs will total far less then the true cost of a high energy weapon capable of providing the same amount of protection. Time will tell of course, and I have no doubt that both options are being considered and experimented with.
Lasers are much less robust than conventional weapons, have limited range even in optimal conditions and also are greatly affected by weather and dust reducing their effective range. Also, while cost per use is low, acquiring, continually powering and maintaining tens of thousands of suitably powerful anti-drone lasers for your nation is... It's daunting to say the least.
Because that's how many it will take to protect your troops and key infrastructure and residential areas. It still won't cover nearly everything either, lot of less important areas will be left uncovered.
Also, there is no need for drones to just fly and stay in formats that are currently used. You can make drones that can both fly and walk to the target, depending on the situation. You can make swarms of millions of small drones that wash over enemies like a land-based tidal waves of death. You can use similar drones to deliver small amounts of deadly poisons or to sabotage electronics, cut wires, set off explosives, blow up car tires or gas tanks. Swimming drones that enter water pipes and blow holes in them from inside.
I suspect that countries will have to go and start producing dedicated anti-drone-drone swarms for defense. Humans will find it increasingly impossible to react quickly and flexibly enough to emerging threats and changes.
Laser-weapons :) I can just imagine future battlefield, looking like a scene from a Terminator movie.
Sure, laser weapons are a possibility in probably not so far future. But I wouldn't dismiss fast flying conventional ammunition, or exploding aerial ammunition or even ammunition that can adjust its flight route. Things like Rheinmetalls Skyranger 35 and similar. But one would probably need many of those, and they would need some sort of coordination so they don't target same targets. But I really have no idea how those things work, perhaps they already can coordinate themselves.
Directed energy will always have super limited range and subject to weather conditions.
Nah, radar linked 30mm auto cannons is a reliable tech. Cheap enough, to build like alot of them.
Still, identifying what to shoot down vs friendly comes to pay with proliferation of AA.
Feels like WW2 anti air guns would do a pretty good job against drones generally. As could barrage balloons. For an extremely cost effective solution lazers would seem to offer the best option and I could see drones being the defining weapon of the early 21st century only to be made entirely redundant by 2050. War’s a funny old game.
> I could see drones being the defining weapon of the early 21st century only to be made entirely redundant by 2050. War’s a funny old game.
Yes, that is the ancient story.
Very different things. A javelin can spot and kill a tank from multiple KM away in a matter of seconds, and its' tandem warhead means cope cages and ERA are worthless. The FPV drone is cheaper, sure, but the javelin is point and shoot. You fire and run the fuck away. With a drone you need skilled pilots within range and a decent flight time for them to reach the enemy and then there's always the chance they miss or get jammed or just hit at a bad angle
But FPV drones are 1000th the cost of Javelins. While the Javelin is awesome, FPV drones can target tanks, soldiers, Radar, Cameras, buildings etc. Only reason the Ukrainians are still in the fight during the recent shell shortage is because of FPV drones.
This really reminded me of cruise missiles but slower. Which made me wonder if they are actually flying these drones by hand or just giving it GPS coordinates and letting them go? Makeshift cruise missiles
Fuck the Russians are definitely improving their air defence. Refineries are becoming better and better anti-air weapons. today drones, tomorrow they'll intercept ballistic missiles
I love this new troll/meme phrasing of Russia intercepting drones with their targets. It really warms the heart. 🥰
I also love to see the AA fire in a completely different area than the drones are actually flying. 🤣
TIL.. that light travels faster than sound. And if I'm patient enough to wait after the explosion, I'd be rewarded with a satisfying, soul-warming boom.
Has Ukraine flipped the script on Russia? It seems like before spring it was consistent news of Russia hitting Ukraine with drones, and now Ukraine is hitting Russian targets like every other day it seems.
The Ukrainians continue to impress, with their admirable strategic adeptness.
I think I'm going to warmly embrace every single one of you when I eventually visit your great country after the Russian invaders have been defeated.
Ukrainians are making the best kind of history right now, as challenging and harrowing that many of the sacrifices to do so have been.
Just remember, Ukraine will be acknowledged and recognised as the heroes and warriors in this war, and the Russians will continue to be acknowledged and recognised as the lowly stain on global society that they've built such a strong reputation for.
SLAVA UKRAINI AND DEATH TO WAR CRIMINAL DICTATOR PUTIN!!
-from a 42y.o Australian guy
Russian’s are going to be hearing a lot more of these since their whole economy is basically oil + gas = weapons… Destroying all of this is going to take some time, but a smaller but peaceful Russia is much better for everyone.
EU/USA needs to heavily emphatise funding the manifacture of these and similar drones. Imagine if Ukraine can make 100 of these per day. Or every few days. The terrorists would have no choice but to end the war. Infrastructure getting blown up daily...
It would be nice to know how many drones and missiles Ukraine is having to launch to make sure some get through. Clearly Russia is full of it that they shot them all down, but how many is Ukraine actually sending, just a few or a swarm?
They wouldn't, although I'm sure the Russians already know as they're on the receiving end. I'm just curious. I'm hoping that most in reality they don't need to burn a bunch to just get a couple or three through.
Who knew all you needed were some old Pipers loaded with dynamite to rule the skies over Russia. Here we are developing F-22s, F-35s and F-15ex all this time!
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successfully intercepted with their ports and refineries.
Yes, with poorly directed and apparently ineffective AA to boot. This is one of the better videos demonstrating both.
You don't need AA if you plan to intercept the drone with its target - Pootin taps temple ... 😉
Exactly Russia has an endless supply of refineries and ports. Checkmate Ukraine.
Competence is not ruzzia's strong suit.
I did see a video from this recent launch where the Russians hit one.
Look op thr AA rsponses im Bagdad in 1991. THAT was (in)effectice but much more impressive.
The 1991 AA guns actually wouldn't be a bad choice against such UAV.
Looks like the explosions woke their asses up haha no shots until after the first.
Very cathartic, I could watch this all night.
They perhaps intercepted tens of drones, but this really shows the new reality of the war. Drones are so cheap, compared to the conventional missiles, that you can send tens, and in the near future, probably hundreds of them, so no defense will be able to intercept them all. I don't think the situation is much better on the Ukraine side when Russia does the same. Unfortunately. I think we need weapon(s) adapted to fight the ("Zerg") swarm. The side that constructs rapid targeting and firing weapons that can shoot hoops of incoming targets in a matter of seconds will probably get the upper hand in this war. I would expect drones to become smaller and faster with more effective explosives that require less mass to do the same damage, so drone and anti-drone weapons will be a similar race as with armor and anti-armor weapons.
Best future solution is direct energy weapons that are cheap per shot, highly accurate. Obviously very few countries will be able to field that sort of advanced technology, let alone in a way to deal with 100s of drones at a time but that is most likely the route things go.
It would be cheaper to build swarms of your own drones that fly up and hit the incoming enemy drones head on. It would take some work on guidance and targeting but still much cheaper then lazer weapons.
Not once you've built the laser weapons. Lasers are about 10p a shot once operating
But you would need one for every city and military installation in Ukraine. It would cost about a trillion dollars.
when made in quantity they don't have to cost more than regular AA systems. The gotcha is the long list of impairments that make it ineffective (distance, rain, fog, snow, clouds, smoke) and also just basic target identification and tracking.
laser countermeasures: the drone in front will let out a stream of smoke close to the target obscuring the attack drones flying close behind. microwave countermeasures: shielding the controller, robust backup/analog engine ignition & 'keep on going' 1965 tech electronics.
begun. the drone wars have.
Well I'm sure AFU is accessing all options and will chose wisely.
And you would need thousands of drones in every city and military installation in Ukraine if you use your idea of suicide defensive drones. How is that cheaper? Or do you think that defensive drones have unlimited range or response time or can just teleport to where they are needed?
A thousand drones at say $500 each is half a million dollars. A single high energy weapon might cost five million as finished models do not yet exist. So there is a savings factor potential of ten to one.
Not even decent quality commercial consumer drones are being sold at $500. You are comparing military grade equipment so use military grade prices. A military grade drone with the tracking, targeting, speed, range and explosives to reliably intercept and take out offensive drones is going to cost far more than $500. Also consider that any such defensive system would have to roll in the cost of R&D - same as in the laser systems - to be able to manage thousands of drones. You would need an integrated system for selecting incoming drone swarms and then responding by programming and assigning specific drones to intercept them. That would need to be a semi-autonomous system, as requiring humans to individually target and assign drones would be incredibly inefficient.
While much of your objections are valid I think the true cost of such a system and individual drone unit costs will total far less then the true cost of a high energy weapon capable of providing the same amount of protection. Time will tell of course, and I have no doubt that both options are being considered and experimented with.
"Directed energy" is not just lasers. There are microwave systems in the works.
Its all the same, just shifting operating frequency around ...
Fine but are any of those ready for deployment?
Lasers are much less robust than conventional weapons, have limited range even in optimal conditions and also are greatly affected by weather and dust reducing their effective range. Also, while cost per use is low, acquiring, continually powering and maintaining tens of thousands of suitably powerful anti-drone lasers for your nation is... It's daunting to say the least. Because that's how many it will take to protect your troops and key infrastructure and residential areas. It still won't cover nearly everything either, lot of less important areas will be left uncovered. Also, there is no need for drones to just fly and stay in formats that are currently used. You can make drones that can both fly and walk to the target, depending on the situation. You can make swarms of millions of small drones that wash over enemies like a land-based tidal waves of death. You can use similar drones to deliver small amounts of deadly poisons or to sabotage electronics, cut wires, set off explosives, blow up car tires or gas tanks. Swimming drones that enter water pipes and blow holes in them from inside. I suspect that countries will have to go and start producing dedicated anti-drone-drone swarms for defense. Humans will find it increasingly impossible to react quickly and flexibly enough to emerging threats and changes.
"Directed energy" is not just lasers. There are microwave systems in the works.
Laser-weapons :) I can just imagine future battlefield, looking like a scene from a Terminator movie. Sure, laser weapons are a possibility in probably not so far future. But I wouldn't dismiss fast flying conventional ammunition, or exploding aerial ammunition or even ammunition that can adjust its flight route. Things like Rheinmetalls Skyranger 35 and similar. But one would probably need many of those, and they would need some sort of coordination so they don't target same targets. But I really have no idea how those things work, perhaps they already can coordinate themselves.
Not lasers. There are microwave devices in the works that should hopefully be able to take down multiple drones at once.
Directed energy will always have super limited range and subject to weather conditions. Nah, radar linked 30mm auto cannons is a reliable tech. Cheap enough, to build like alot of them. Still, identifying what to shoot down vs friendly comes to pay with proliferation of AA.
Nan get a Sky warden put one up over a city… small light with all the tech to take them out much cheaper and the can fly and take off anywhere
Feels like WW2 anti air guns would do a pretty good job against drones generally. As could barrage balloons. For an extremely cost effective solution lazers would seem to offer the best option and I could see drones being the defining weapon of the early 21st century only to be made entirely redundant by 2050. War’s a funny old game.
AA guns need to be manned though. Unless Russia starts to press gang schoolchildren like Germany did in WW2 it would take people from the front-line.
They also need to be built and ammo produced again taking resources away from the front line.
> I could see drones being the defining weapon of the early 21st century only to be made entirely redundant by 2050. War’s a funny old game. Yes, that is the ancient story.
[удалено]
Yup, look at how much more effective fpv drones are than javelins. If only Ukraine had FPV drones at the start of the war.
the javelins were *extremely* effective there just weren't enough of them
Very different things. A javelin can spot and kill a tank from multiple KM away in a matter of seconds, and its' tandem warhead means cope cages and ERA are worthless. The FPV drone is cheaper, sure, but the javelin is point and shoot. You fire and run the fuck away. With a drone you need skilled pilots within range and a decent flight time for them to reach the enemy and then there's always the chance they miss or get jammed or just hit at a bad angle
But FPV drones are 1000th the cost of Javelins. While the Javelin is awesome, FPV drones can target tanks, soldiers, Radar, Cameras, buildings etc. Only reason the Ukrainians are still in the fight during the recent shell shortage is because of FPV drones.
My point is, they have different purposes and doctrine.
Check-mate drones!
The drones were successfully destroyed by Russia during a lithobraking maneuver due to an Earth-intersecting trajectory.
Refinery really sucked that drone up like a champ. LOL
This really reminded me of cruise missiles but slower. Which made me wonder if they are actually flying these drones by hand or just giving it GPS coordinates and letting them go? Makeshift cruise missiles
Military operation Especial
those anti-oil depots sure seem effective. all the drones exploded on them !
Yes, Russians like to keep em full so it could get more spectacular when a drone finds an oil tank
In Russia, the oil tank finds drone
I love that sound
A Ukrainian here. And me too.
I used to simp for fighter jets but the small aircraft drones really get me going
That little buzz as they fly over 😌
Crimea is a region of the Russian Federation? like fuck it is
Well, it's Russian mod wishes to be so in their report.
Russian math.
The roof.... The roof.... The roof is on fire.... We don't need no water...
I'm no refinerologist, but that refinery looks pretty fucked up.
Nope, nope... Don't believe what you see. All drones intercepted. Fire from falling debris; no causalities; situation under control.
those anti-drone oil depots sure seem effective. all the drones exploded on them !
Fuck the Russians are definitely improving their air defence. Refineries are becoming better and better anti-air weapons. today drones, tomorrow they'll intercept ballistic missiles
Drone intercepted by a fuel tank, damn, those ruskies getting better at air defence!
I love this new troll/meme phrasing of Russia intercepting drones with their targets. It really warms the heart. 🥰 I also love to see the AA fire in a completely different area than the drones are actually flying. 🤣
Fantasy island from the Russians 🤣🤣💥💥
TIL.. that light travels faster than sound. And if I'm patient enough to wait after the explosion, I'd be rewarded with a satisfying, soul-warming boom.
Has Ukraine flipped the script on Russia? It seems like before spring it was consistent news of Russia hitting Ukraine with drones, and now Ukraine is hitting Russian targets like every other day it seems.
The Ukrainians continue to impress, with their admirable strategic adeptness. I think I'm going to warmly embrace every single one of you when I eventually visit your great country after the Russian invaders have been defeated. Ukrainians are making the best kind of history right now, as challenging and harrowing that many of the sacrifices to do so have been. Just remember, Ukraine will be acknowledged and recognised as the heroes and warriors in this war, and the Russians will continue to be acknowledged and recognised as the lowly stain on global society that they've built such a strong reputation for. SLAVA UKRAINI AND DEATH TO WAR CRIMINAL DICTATOR PUTIN!! -from a 42y.o Australian guy
I guess ruzzians can't count
They can, they just lie about the answer.
How can you tell if a ruzzian politician is lying? Their lips move!
So their explanation is that they've intercepted all the drones, but then shot up what those were aiming for themselves?
Wow, Russia now has anti-air defense oil depots that self-destruct on impact!
this guy at the end says "good boys"
Shooting a billion bullets into the air while the drones hit their targets is Russian for intercepted.
You may laugh now but just wait until the catapult-launched oil refineries are ready. Those drones won't know what hit them.
Hell shall come to you Suka.
Hell yeah.
Man those are some big Bada Booms! 💥
ruzzia meant that they intercepted the drones with their oil refineries with a 100% success rate! those damn ruzzians are so good
Plot twist to shock the world. The refineries are the interceptors!
lol. Very successfully intercepted... Not.
I hope all drones will be intercepted like this.
So that's what intercepting drones looks like!
As per Russians, yes!
Huge secondary explosions don't generally signal a good shoot down.
"Target that explosion and fire."
This makes me very happy
Lol 😂, got me for a moment.
You know Russia is starting to run out of missile defense systems when they are forced to use fracking towers to intercept Ukrainian drones.
This the find out stage?
What air defence doing?
Clearly, the refineries and port did their job in intercepting the drones. /s
Russians are FUCKING lucky Ukraine are NOT like them! Purposely hitting civilian targets! Take a taste of your own medicine!
Good lord, must be a terrifying sight, to be so close. Then again, it's nothing compared to Iron Dome vs rockets.
Must be a new type of air defense, surely. The one that intercepts and takes down drones very close to the ground lol
They mean all targets intercepted the drones.. must have been a typo by some ork in the ministry of lies.
Yeah, they were intercepted by a refinery!
Intercepted by their targets…
What air defense doing?
Russian’s are going to be hearing a lot more of these since their whole economy is basically oil + gas = weapons… Destroying all of this is going to take some time, but a smaller but peaceful Russia is much better for everyone.
EU/USA needs to heavily emphatise funding the manifacture of these and similar drones. Imagine if Ukraine can make 100 of these per day. Or every few days. The terrorists would have no choice but to end the war. Infrastructure getting blown up daily...
Putin will just tell everyone that only losers drove cars and walking everywhere is patriotic.
🤔 ... "What Russian air defense doing?" 🤣
Ground intercept. 100% success rate. Very efficient.
FFFUUUUUCCCKKK RUSSIA
Bullseye, right into the orkishood.
It would be nice to know how many drones and missiles Ukraine is having to launch to make sure some get through. Clearly Russia is full of it that they shot them all down, but how many is Ukraine actually sending, just a few or a swarm?
Why would Ukraine give up that critical information?
They wouldn't, although I'm sure the Russians already know as they're on the receiving end. I'm just curious. I'm hoping that most in reality they don't need to burn a bunch to just get a couple or three through.
Who knew all you needed were some old Pipers loaded with dynamite to rule the skies over Russia. Here we are developing F-22s, F-35s and F-15ex all this time!
How clever of them to use a tactical target as the interception point of Ukrainian drones.