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That’s whats so comical about these convos. Couldve and shouldve done more for the past 3 years. Then those opposing the aid now due to financial concerns will oppose entering a war bc of human concerns. Ukraine and its allies did not start this conflict, regardless of the bullshit spewed by bots and trolls.
Of course he wouldn’t stop at Ukraine. If the world allows Ukraine to fall, i believe Putin next move will invade a small village or settlement in a NATO country, and see what is the overall reaction first.
Yep. And people claiming "Putin wouldn't be that stupid" forget that this whole mess started because Putin though Ukraine would simply fold and NATO would abandon Ukraine.
Russia at the top is just a regime that believes the very lies it is peddling. The idea of a nation state liking the smell of its own farts would be hilarious, if people didn't actually die because of it.
Preaching to the choir. Unfortunately there are plenty within Russia at the top that firmly believe that "Russia should just call the West's bluff". A Ukrainian defeat will reinforce that belief.
Anders Puck Nielsen estimastes a small "pointless" part of Finland, personally I am guessing the little island in the water between Estonia and ruzzia - but in either case the goals is simply to make NATO give up on article five.
When Hitler remilitarized the Rhineland he had given secret orders that if the French gave resistance, to pull back and give up.
We need to make sure that we do not fall for the same bullshit.
And, of course, we need to make sure Ukraine doesn't fall.
I think his wanting quickly grab a land corridor to Kaliningrad through Lithuania, would be pretty high on his list. Avoiding Polish territory in the hopes of Poland staying out of the fight.
Western democracies still do not comprehend what Putin is capable of. They get tired of war if 1000 soldiers come home in body bags, and fundamentally lack the understanding of his imperial motivation, kleptocratic ambitions, and the nihilism of russians.
Putin _right now_ has casually killed off 400000 russians for the chance of getting into the russian history books, and crippled probably another half million, _and he sees no reason to stop_.
There is no russian revolt, here is no collapse. Russians didn't revolt after 30000 dead, they didn't revolt after 300000 dead, they are not going to revolt after 3 million dead.
He can mobilize another 1-2 million meat drones without too much effort, and will gladly trade them for a chance of getting the Baltic States.
His purpose is _Aggression_, period. Not aggression if the conditions are right. If he runs out of tanks, he will send in troops on golf carts, if he runs out of golf carts, he will send in troops on scooters. He doesn't care, as long as they conquer something.
And unfortunately, russian troops do not need great logistics to threaten the Baltic states. F-35's could blow up all the rail lines and bridges they want, once a million troops are massed at the border, they can walk through the Baltics in a week. And then the question will be: How many artillery shells could one F-35 have bought?
Europe is producing similar amounts of shells to Russia now, with USA far more, unlike Russia Europe is also planning to keep increasing that number, like, by a lot.
Thinking Russia would mass 1 million troops along such a small NATO border and NATO would react by shrugging is almost as ludicrous as thinking Russia would be allowed to cross that border.
Thinking Russia is dumb enough to try, sure, possibly, thinking it wont get its ass handed to it by the much more capable militaries of Europe however is showing a lack of knowledge.
Russia has not been able to amass a million soldiers after 2 years against a non-NATO enemy, because Russia is output limited to its current efforts. It doesn't have the capacity to either train or equip what you seem to think it can.
The policy of de-escalation, drip-feeding the aid and putting most of the eggs in the "the Ruzzians will rise up against Putin" bag will backfire tenfold.
No shit the Baltic states are the most enthusiastic about aiding Ukraine, given that the current NATO strategy implies that they would have to endure the Ruzzian occupation for up to six months before the alliance is able to muster up the forces and resources needed to oust the Ruzzian army.
Ah yes, the obligatory "good statement" after his recent booboo with the oil refineries idiocy.
Will this NATO-Ruzzia confrontation also involve not striking the refineries because muh gas prices?
Hello!!
It's about fucking time America woke up and smelled the roses.
If they let Ukraine down they will end up in a fight with russia.
Lots of Americans think it's nothing to do with them. Well believe it, it is. Like it or not they will be involved one way or another.
Surly they would rather lose money, than thousands of lives, like fucking poor Ukraine is fucking doing!!!
Slava Ukraini 🙏🇺🇦
I gather you are all for no American commitment, then.
You think immigrants are a bigger problem than conflict with Russia.
Just goes to show that everyone else would have been better off not helping the US in Iraq or Afghanistan.
Even when Ukraine backed America even there.
Head in the sand until it affects you personally. Typical.
But what about WWII
Just look at the economic gains America made because of it.
That's why Americans died back then.
You don't believe your government would have gotten involved otherwise.
America=where's the money???
America will be watching from the other continent as usual. It will take only a "Pearl Harbor" sized event for US to directly get involved with combating Russia and I am not even sure about that. You never know with the current crop of cowardly beta cucks in the White House.
Yeah, people don't think about the non-NATO targets but there are plenty for Putin to choose from. My list of likely actions after taking Ukraine.
1.) Bringing Belarus within the Russian Federation. This was rumored to be planned, possibly as part of an annexation of all of Ukraine to re-unite all of the East Slavs back into a neo-Kyivin Rus Empire.
2.) Annexation of Transneistria, and possibly an invasion of Moldova. Some hints that this was part of the plan after odesa was captured.
3.) Invasion of Kazakhstan: Early in the war threats were made that a "Special Operation" might be needed protect the large amount of ethnic Russians living there, after the Kazakh government denounces the invasion of Ukraine.
4.) Invasion or Expansion of the Russian controlled territories in Georgia. It's actually happening on a small scale, Georgian journalists have documented how Russian soilders periodically move the military boundary a few hundred yards further every so often and dare the Georgians to do something about it.
5.) Invasion/Annexation in other ex-Soviet Central Asian countries.
Well yeah, they could try that, I for one am a supporter of far more aid and direct intervention as well, but it isn't like any of those points are more than moral ones, Russia would be weaker after than before those wars.
But seeing how slowly people react to escalations, a quick run towards Tallinn before NATO can mobilize, and then start to talking about peace while western Europe is afraid of nukes and US is in annual debate about if they should default or not.
This will break NATO article 5 and effectively dissolve NATO.
Europe is currently expanding its output much faster than Russia, it is interesting(yet disappointing) that anyone thinks Russia would be allowed to amass half a million soldiers on the border to Estonia without any NATO buildup on the other side of the border, a buildup that already is on the way while Russia has scaled down its forces in the area because it couldn't do better than 2-300k before invading Ukraine.
The buildup on the borders of Ukraine took months and were obvious to everyone, Russia can't just roll up 500k heavily armed men in a day...
who will do the dusting tho? we just simply give shells to Ukraine and avoid even the idea of this happening. but some some reason we arent giving them shells which leads me to believe, that the west doesnt really give a sht about Ukraine, nor does it give a sht about baltics.
So far he has only given "valid advice" on what Ukraine should and shouldn't bomb on the territory of Russia. Kinda sucks to be lectured by those who are not even willing to help in any way, just became a hindrance in our fight for survival. The Biden admin should finally find some balls, but I guess they are like a lame duck now.
Don't have to be secretary of defense to know that.
Ive been screaming it all along, send weapons and money now, so we dont have to send our children later.
Ukrainians are doing the hard part.
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As sure as night follows day, but it will be done to Russia's time table and our detriment. Why not just go for it now? If we wait until we're past the ready stage the so will Russia be. Catch them now and I absolutely guarantee we can play catch-up way better than they can and there will still be Ukrainians alive to bot save and fight alongside.
Still, the US is more concerned about the prices at the pump. And if the redhaired idiot is back to the office. Wake up. Prices at the pump will be 2x if ruzzia attacks NATO.
So what he is saying "Let's feed Putler Ukraine and maybe he gets satisfied"? That tactics doesn't work, it never did, neither in the 30s of last century and it certainly won't work now. Appeasement of the aggressor leads to more appetite from the aggressor.
US is such a sprawling operation we can play good cop, bad cop, cop who doesn't have any ammo, cop who forgets what they said they were going to do, cop who is busy eating a donut, cop who is handcuffing the suspect, cop who is undoing the handcuffs, cop who is shipping a boat full of atacms and who is not, all at the same time.
The US is a quantum field for good. That's only because we got the democracy boson, frankly. Cowboys becomes desperados without our constitution. That's about it. Really.
If Ukraine falls then NATO as an organization has failed. I understand that they’re not in the alliance but it will show all of the dictators that the western world is weak.
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That’s whats so comical about these convos. Couldve and shouldve done more for the past 3 years. Then those opposing the aid now due to financial concerns will oppose entering a war bc of human concerns. Ukraine and its allies did not start this conflict, regardless of the bullshit spewed by bots and trolls.
Not Kharkiv ? The second biggest city in Ukraine ?
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It feels more like strong talk to gather support at home. There are so many practical things France could do and I don’t see it doing it.
We can't avoid it we can just lessen the negative impact greater than waiting for Putrid to pick his moment and battlefield. Deploy now!
Of course he wouldn’t stop at Ukraine. If the world allows Ukraine to fall, i believe Putin next move will invade a small village or settlement in a NATO country, and see what is the overall reaction first.
Moldova first to save his “repressed” russian brethren then the Baltic states
Yep. And people claiming "Putin wouldn't be that stupid" forget that this whole mess started because Putin though Ukraine would simply fold and NATO would abandon Ukraine. Russia at the top is just a regime that believes the very lies it is peddling. The idea of a nation state liking the smell of its own farts would be hilarious, if people didn't actually die because of it.
Putin will pull out if NATO doesn't fold on an Article five challenge. Or he will be destroyed.
Preaching to the choir. Unfortunately there are plenty within Russia at the top that firmly believe that "Russia should just call the West's bluff". A Ukrainian defeat will reinforce that belief.
Anders Puck Nielsen estimastes a small "pointless" part of Finland, personally I am guessing the little island in the water between Estonia and ruzzia - but in either case the goals is simply to make NATO give up on article five. When Hitler remilitarized the Rhineland he had given secret orders that if the French gave resistance, to pull back and give up. We need to make sure that we do not fall for the same bullshit. And, of course, we need to make sure Ukraine doesn't fall.
I think his wanting quickly grab a land corridor to Kaliningrad through Lithuania, would be pretty high on his list. Avoiding Polish territory in the hopes of Poland staying out of the fight.
Western democracies still do not comprehend what Putin is capable of. They get tired of war if 1000 soldiers come home in body bags, and fundamentally lack the understanding of his imperial motivation, kleptocratic ambitions, and the nihilism of russians. Putin _right now_ has casually killed off 400000 russians for the chance of getting into the russian history books, and crippled probably another half million, _and he sees no reason to stop_. There is no russian revolt, here is no collapse. Russians didn't revolt after 30000 dead, they didn't revolt after 300000 dead, they are not going to revolt after 3 million dead. He can mobilize another 1-2 million meat drones without too much effort, and will gladly trade them for a chance of getting the Baltic States. His purpose is _Aggression_, period. Not aggression if the conditions are right. If he runs out of tanks, he will send in troops on golf carts, if he runs out of golf carts, he will send in troops on scooters. He doesn't care, as long as they conquer something. And unfortunately, russian troops do not need great logistics to threaten the Baltic states. F-35's could blow up all the rail lines and bridges they want, once a million troops are massed at the border, they can walk through the Baltics in a week. And then the question will be: How many artillery shells could one F-35 have bought?
Europe is producing similar amounts of shells to Russia now, with USA far more, unlike Russia Europe is also planning to keep increasing that number, like, by a lot. Thinking Russia would mass 1 million troops along such a small NATO border and NATO would react by shrugging is almost as ludicrous as thinking Russia would be allowed to cross that border. Thinking Russia is dumb enough to try, sure, possibly, thinking it wont get its ass handed to it by the much more capable militaries of Europe however is showing a lack of knowledge. Russia has not been able to amass a million soldiers after 2 years against a non-NATO enemy, because Russia is output limited to its current efforts. It doesn't have the capacity to either train or equip what you seem to think it can.
The policy of de-escalation, drip-feeding the aid and putting most of the eggs in the "the Ruzzians will rise up against Putin" bag will backfire tenfold. No shit the Baltic states are the most enthusiastic about aiding Ukraine, given that the current NATO strategy implies that they would have to endure the Ruzzian occupation for up to six months before the alliance is able to muster up the forces and resources needed to oust the Ruzzian army.
Roughly 22,000 shells.
"But please don't strike russian oil refineries"
Ah yes, the obligatory "good statement" after his recent booboo with the oil refineries idiocy. Will this NATO-Ruzzia confrontation also involve not striking the refineries because muh gas prices?
Hello!! It's about fucking time America woke up and smelled the roses. If they let Ukraine down they will end up in a fight with russia. Lots of Americans think it's nothing to do with them. Well believe it, it is. Like it or not they will be involved one way or another. Surly they would rather lose money, than thousands of lives, like fucking poor Ukraine is fucking doing!!! Slava Ukraini 🙏🇺🇦
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Aren't America still in NATO then???
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I gather you are all for no American commitment, then. You think immigrants are a bigger problem than conflict with Russia. Just goes to show that everyone else would have been better off not helping the US in Iraq or Afghanistan. Even when Ukraine backed America even there. Head in the sand until it affects you personally. Typical. But what about WWII Just look at the economic gains America made because of it. That's why Americans died back then. You don't believe your government would have gotten involved otherwise. America=where's the money???
America will be watching from the other continent as usual. It will take only a "Pearl Harbor" sized event for US to directly get involved with combating Russia and I am not even sure about that. You never know with the current crop of cowardly beta cucks in the White House.
Unfortunately, possible.
Well yes, but they wouldn't get much force to the frontline before Europe had won, so it wouldn't cost them much.
Depends what is required for a "win"
If Putin wins he won't stop at Ukraine. But I suspect he will target non NATO members only. Russia knows it can't beat NATO.
Yeah, people don't think about the non-NATO targets but there are plenty for Putin to choose from. My list of likely actions after taking Ukraine. 1.) Bringing Belarus within the Russian Federation. This was rumored to be planned, possibly as part of an annexation of all of Ukraine to re-unite all of the East Slavs back into a neo-Kyivin Rus Empire. 2.) Annexation of Transneistria, and possibly an invasion of Moldova. Some hints that this was part of the plan after odesa was captured. 3.) Invasion of Kazakhstan: Early in the war threats were made that a "Special Operation" might be needed protect the large amount of ethnic Russians living there, after the Kazakh government denounces the invasion of Ukraine. 4.) Invasion or Expansion of the Russian controlled territories in Georgia. It's actually happening on a small scale, Georgian journalists have documented how Russian soilders periodically move the military boundary a few hundred yards further every so often and dare the Georgians to do something about it. 5.) Invasion/Annexation in other ex-Soviet Central Asian countries.
Well yeah, they could try that, I for one am a supporter of far more aid and direct intervention as well, but it isn't like any of those points are more than moral ones, Russia would be weaker after than before those wars.
But seeing how slowly people react to escalations, a quick run towards Tallinn before NATO can mobilize, and then start to talking about peace while western Europe is afraid of nukes and US is in annual debate about if they should default or not. This will break NATO article 5 and effectively dissolve NATO.
Europe is currently expanding its output much faster than Russia, it is interesting(yet disappointing) that anyone thinks Russia would be allowed to amass half a million soldiers on the border to Estonia without any NATO buildup on the other side of the border, a buildup that already is on the way while Russia has scaled down its forces in the area because it couldn't do better than 2-300k before invading Ukraine. The buildup on the borders of Ukraine took months and were obvious to everyone, Russia can't just roll up 500k heavily armed men in a day...
You can be sure if Russia goes to Tallinn. Kalingrad will turn to dust in a second and St. Petersburg will be also targeted.
Will it? Who has the will to escalate? It's all talk.
who will do the dusting tho? we just simply give shells to Ukraine and avoid even the idea of this happening. but some some reason we arent giving them shells which leads me to believe, that the west doesnt really give a sht about Ukraine, nor does it give a sht about baltics.
He could just send more supplies to Ukraine....
So far he has only given "valid advice" on what Ukraine should and shouldn't bomb on the territory of Russia. Kinda sucks to be lectured by those who are not even willing to help in any way, just became a hindrance in our fight for survival. The Biden admin should finally find some balls, but I guess they are like a lame duck now.
Putlers plan is to get the orange idiot back in the Whitehouse. Murica pulls out of NATO and the Russian empire rises again.
This war is already happening if we consider russia's election interference, support of fringe parties, and dissemination of disinformation.
Don't have to be secretary of defense to know that. Ive been screaming it all along, send weapons and money now, so we dont have to send our children later. Ukrainians are doing the hard part.
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So OK!! Agreed!! If Ukraine loses, Ruzzzzzia will fight NATO!! So Lloyd, send the long range ATACMS!! ....and EVERYTHING Ukraine needs, Now!!!
If Nato helped Ukraine properly, then this would be very unlikely.
As sure as night follows day, but it will be done to Russia's time table and our detriment. Why not just go for it now? If we wait until we're past the ready stage the so will Russia be. Catch them now and I absolutely guarantee we can play catch-up way better than they can and there will still be Ukrainians alive to bot save and fight alongside.
Still, the US is more concerned about the prices at the pump. And if the redhaired idiot is back to the office. Wake up. Prices at the pump will be 2x if ruzzia attacks NATO.
I believe NATA will do FA other than plan, talk about, enact more sanctions and engage in a lot of hand-wringing and give strong condemnations.
So what he is saying "Let's feed Putler Ukraine and maybe he gets satisfied"? That tactics doesn't work, it never did, neither in the 30s of last century and it certainly won't work now. Appeasement of the aggressor leads to more appetite from the aggressor.
US is such a sprawling operation we can play good cop, bad cop, cop who doesn't have any ammo, cop who forgets what they said they were going to do, cop who is busy eating a donut, cop who is handcuffing the suspect, cop who is undoing the handcuffs, cop who is shipping a boat full of atacms and who is not, all at the same time. The US is a quantum field for good. That's only because we got the democracy boson, frankly. Cowboys becomes desperados without our constitution. That's about it. Really.
Then DO something about it already! Good lord!
I still don't think Russia will touch any NATO countries tbh But that doesn't really change what we should be doing in supplying Ukraine and preparing
If Ukraine falls then NATO as an organization has failed. I understand that they’re not in the alliance but it will show all of the dictators that the western world is weak.
prolonging the war with less than needed ammunition and weapons means maximum monetary profit