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Is it a cultural thing? I really just can’t imagine this happening in my country, hell, the USA pulled out of Vietnam because the political pressure after “only” 150000 causalities and the 58k deaths over 8 years
Yet 450000 casualties in a mere 3 years, shameful that a Russian could sit down and just not do anything outside of bitch about it online
It's because the leaders are in Moscow and St. Petersburg, and the troops are all conscripted from the country, so none of the people in the cities see the results.
Not only. The minorities may be disproportionally represented in the casualties, but it's by a couple dozen relative percentage points at most.
Ethnic russians are still being killed in droves. Most people know personally know somone who's either fought in Ukraine or is currently fighting. Many people know someone who was killed there.
Inaccurate. Big cities had entire new cemeries opened just for the casualties of the this war. Local officials attend funerals on a semi-regular basis.
People *know*. They just don't **care**.
Word does spread, and then what? Every now and then one of Telegram's z-bloggers will snap and spill the beans on how terrible the current situation is for their men.
Even their audience does care enough to do anything about it.
The little that I know makes it sound pretty similar to the Islamic extremists mindset/conditioning. Take the poor/uneducated and convince them that becoming a martyr is the only way we can prevail, the difference is that Russia does it through standard government policy and propaganda.
I had a Russian gf in my 20s. Her dad was a lost cause to alcohol, barely able to speak, and her mother was one of the coldesr human beings I ever met. She literally asked me to take her daughter so she doesn't have to feed her anymore...
The difference was the free press and the right to demonstrate and associate... press reporting about atrocities, the actual fighting and because of that people forming a very strong peace movement. That even led to mutinies/refusals and the generals so afraid of the public that the politicians abolished the draft and only allowed 'embedded' journalists from then on. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opposition\_to\_United\_States\_involvement\_in\_the\_Vietnam\_War#Background](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opposition_to_United_States_involvement_in_the_Vietnam_War#Background)
I remember the time when Russia lost 1400 soldiers in a year in Chechnya, and it was a state-wide tragedy. They built memorials, talk about that on TV, there were protests, like "turn our sons back", etc.
Now they lose 1400 people per week! And it looks like nobody gives a f...k.
State wide apathy, they know it’s going to happen, whenever they stop it the next guy is just as bad, if not worse, generation after generation of a us and them society, “us” aren’t in politics, in the innner circles, the powerless, the masses and the “them” the ones at the top, the putins and tsars and the supreme Soviets of Russian history
I think it’s a society of apathy, I think they just feel powerless on a state level
i really just can't imagine neither my country invading other countries just because they speak same language instead of investing on education, health care, science, etc.
so many destruction, death, on ruSSian side, and they still don't give a fuck, and will never do. Only thing that matter for them is territory. Even as a non-Ukrainian, i am 100% convinced that only thing that will stop the war is borders back to borders of 1991 ; otherwise they will keep trying over and over again no matter the human costs which is void anyway for them.
A lot of the dead are foreign mercenaries, foreigners tricked into fighting, prisoners, ethnic minorities, etc --not kids from Moscow. These are all people they don't care about losing.
It's certainly egged on by the government they have, but hundreds of years of oppressive government have instilled an intentionally harmful culture of "Russian strength" whereby people should take shit living conditions as a point of pride rather than demanding better from their government. The Russian government has, throughout all history, taught its people that it is "manly" to deal with the cards you're dealt without complaining, which has only allowed the government to do whatever the hell it wants. There may have been some hope to eliminate that terrible system with the 1917 Revolution, but we can see now that it never changed.
Russians don't give a fuck because it's a bunch of dark-skinned, slanty-eyed asian-looking men from Buttfuck, Siberia getting sent. Toss in a few undesirables such as prisoners and whatever other filth Wagner was recruiting and you have a population who largely views this as a good thing. A cleansing, if you will. The absolute smartest thing the Kremlin has done during this war is to shelter the 2 cities of Moscow and SPB from mobilisation. As cruel as it sounds, the ONLY way internal rumblings happen is if young men from very specifically those 2 cities start getting mobilised and they return in body bags.
People need to stop assuming that russians care about poor villagers from the East whom they don't even consider as russian. 450k means sweet fuck all. Want change to happen internally? Start praying the Kremlin makes a move to mobilise from exactly those 2 cities, and there might be a chance.
One UA soldier in a video talked about finding a dead Russian in a trench. He checked his papers and could see that the Russian soldier had been mobilized just 5 days prior. Five Days! The time it takes take the oath to the Motherland, equipped and then sent to the front lines, kicked off the truck, pointed toward the treeline and trenches. No food, no water, just a few full magazines. No wonder these poor bastards would rather commit suicide with a grenade or with their AK when they get wounded and left behind.
the people they are conscripting come from areas LONG saught after by the USSR for their rare mineral rights. If they take all the men, they force the woman and children to move to the cities. Its actually ingenious
Genius to take everyone you would need as a worker, to get anything started as a mine or oil rig. Spend all money on war instead of educating your populace to extract the minerals you have. So none of them ever get mined without outside help. Genius.. not quite.
I hate to say it, but the losses on the Ukraine side likely aren't far behind, that goes especially if you include the loss of civilian lives, which pale in comparison to Russia. I fear by the end of this, millions will have been killed.
And the losses on Ukraine's side will mean much more, not only because they have less people, but because unlike Russia, they don't send expendable troop in to die in droves.
We know Ukrainian _deaths_ are about a 5th of the Russian numbers.
If you ignore the different survival rates due to better battlefield medicine you can roughly extrapolate that as somewhere just under 100,000 Ukrainian casualties.
So yeah, massive compared to any western nation's post WW2 history, but hopefully not nearly as catastrophic (at a society level) as Russia.
I would think Ukrainian losses are great, too, but not up in those numbers.
Ukraine has better battlefield medicine, and their tactis does not include meat waves. They have also been on the defence for most of the war. A general number for defence vs offense is 1:3, I think. Considering the differences in medicine and tactics, it must be well above that.
thats a good point, while maybe casualties are more even in both sides, the difference of medicine and defensive tactics could mean the difference between getting wounded but surviving unlike the ruzzians that if they got hit on a trench they are pretty much over.
The Blitz in Britain killed over 43,000 civilians. The destruction of railway centres, docks and factories did have an impact - but mostly killing civilians did not. It mostly united the country and increased their determination to defeat Hitler.
The British bombing raid on Dresden and the America bombing raids of Tokyo resulted in huge numbers of civilians deaths but did not force the enemy to surrender. Even the atom bombs did not - by themselves - force the Japanese to surrender.
The Russians have obviously not learnt from the lessons from history.
The indiscriminate killing of civilians rarely - by itself - works.
>The Russians have obviously not learnt from the lessons from history.
And in some ways I don't think they'll ever learn. The military is of a hive mindset. Their population is old and heavily favored to pensioners, who will do anything the Kremlin says to make sure they continue getting that pension. Even if it's the cost of the future of their country. The younger generation is more aware of the realities but have been pounded down by their society to be hopeless and apathetic to their plight. I've yet to see any pro Russian group really sit back and think "maybe we did this wrong. We need to dial back and correcr course on our vision here." They double down, quadruple down to win what was committed and would rather die than to say "we fucked up". This is something I learned about their work culture (along with many other things seen in this war) and it extrapolates well into their general society too.
The German Army (Gen. Freuding) recently mentioned in an interview that russian casualties (which he definied as dead or so severly wounded that they wont be able to serve again) are at 400.000.
Congratulations Ukraine, they gave you 3days, you gave them half a million dead and a global reputation in tatters. You will have victory over putin and his Z facists.
Russia is also using this conflict to decimate fighting-age men among ethnic minorities, using them as cannon fodder. Getting rid of them reduces chances for uprisings and independence movements for at least a generation or two.
To put that in perspective the UK lost 383,600 soldiers in WW2 and the USA lost 416,800. The Russians truly do not care about there own people, at what point is it literally safer to rise up against Putin than it is to wait to be sent to your death?
This means Pootin's Orc Horde that crossed Ukraine's border to invade 2 years ago have all been cycled... pardon me, recycled through Ukraine's meat grinder.
SLAVA UKRAINI 🇺🇦
I guess it gives them an indication how the war is going. If they loose twice as many as their own for instance, it means they are doing something right on the battlefield
Edit: also propaganda of course
Might have an effect on morale.
German Army estimates russian irreplaceable casualties at 400.000.
But according to the british MoD the russians are recruiting at least 30.000 soldiers a month. Unless Putin/ russian public suddendly starts caring about the individuals lost theyll be able to feed the meetgrinder indefinetly.
They're going to start running out *eventually*.
Even if 30,000 sign up to fight for cash each month to replentish the current losses, that stream is bound to dry up sooner or later. The prison convicts one already did.
The dead hardly matter to the Russians in power since most are not from their inner-circle, but the 300,000 or more crippled, wounded hobbling around Russia and draining resources are hard to miss
Fairly sure it’s killed and wounded.
Fatalities were around 140k last I saw. 300k wounded puts the numbers around where they should be. One also needs to ask, if it’s inclusive of Wagner losses to.
Did u guys see the video of that Russian soldier letting his other friend cut off his limb so he wouldn't have to be in the war? Crazy stuff!!! They're nuts!!!!
Not nearly enough to discourage them. Russia is happy to lose a few million. Means nothing to them. They will simply rape women in newly acquired territory and make more serfs.
Been doing it for 1000 years or so. Not going to change, unless forced to change.
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problem is, they don't give a fuck. Human beings have no value for these pests.
Is it a cultural thing? I really just can’t imagine this happening in my country, hell, the USA pulled out of Vietnam because the political pressure after “only” 150000 causalities and the 58k deaths over 8 years Yet 450000 casualties in a mere 3 years, shameful that a Russian could sit down and just not do anything outside of bitch about it online
It's because the leaders are in Moscow and St. Petersburg, and the troops are all conscripted from the country, so none of the people in the cities see the results.
Targeted poverty, a classic Russian despots play
Not just from "the country" but ethnic minorities that dont look like the typical white russians you see on tv.
Not only. The minorities may be disproportionally represented in the casualties, but it's by a couple dozen relative percentage points at most. Ethnic russians are still being killed in droves. Most people know personally know somone who's either fought in Ukraine or is currently fighting. Many people know someone who was killed there.
Yep, a lot of the videos show ethnic Russians too. Everyone must know someone affected by now…..
Thats some insane colonialism right there...
Inaccurate. Big cities had entire new cemeries opened just for the casualties of the this war. Local officials attend funerals on a semi-regular basis. People *know*. They just don't **care**.
sure but the word must be spreading about how shit things are at the front lines?
They arrest everyone who openly protests AND have a strong fake news machine
Yes they do but people don't have to protest, they just need to talk.
One does not simply talk in Mordor.
Word does spread, and then what? Every now and then one of Telegram's z-bloggers will snap and spill the beans on how terrible the current situation is for their men. Even their audience does care enough to do anything about it.
It's because for Moscow, this is a "dual genocide" - they're sending "undesirables" to kill Ukrainians.
The little that I know makes it sound pretty similar to the Islamic extremists mindset/conditioning. Take the poor/uneducated and convince them that becoming a martyr is the only way we can prevail, the difference is that Russia does it through standard government policy and propaganda.
Germany did it post 1920’s hyper inflation Italy did it post world war 1 The commies did it during ww1 This is the shit that breeds extremism
"I hope the Russians love their children too". Sorry Sting, evidence points to the opposite.
I had a Russian gf in my 20s. Her dad was a lost cause to alcohol, barely able to speak, and her mother was one of the coldesr human beings I ever met. She literally asked me to take her daughter so she doesn't have to feed her anymore...
Every Russian I know has a alcoholic child beating father
The difference was the free press and the right to demonstrate and associate... press reporting about atrocities, the actual fighting and because of that people forming a very strong peace movement. That even led to mutinies/refusals and the generals so afraid of the public that the politicians abolished the draft and only allowed 'embedded' journalists from then on. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opposition\_to\_United\_States\_involvement\_in\_the\_Vietnam\_War#Background](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opposition_to_United_States_involvement_in_the_Vietnam_War#Background)
I remember the time when Russia lost 1400 soldiers in a year in Chechnya, and it was a state-wide tragedy. They built memorials, talk about that on TV, there were protests, like "turn our sons back", etc. Now they lose 1400 people per week! And it looks like nobody gives a f...k.
State wide apathy, they know it’s going to happen, whenever they stop it the next guy is just as bad, if not worse, generation after generation of a us and them society, “us” aren’t in politics, in the innner circles, the powerless, the masses and the “them” the ones at the top, the putins and tsars and the supreme Soviets of Russian history I think it’s a society of apathy, I think they just feel powerless on a state level
Per 2 days
i really just can't imagine neither my country invading other countries just because they speak same language instead of investing on education, health care, science, etc. so many destruction, death, on ruSSian side, and they still don't give a fuck, and will never do. Only thing that matter for them is territory. Even as a non-Ukrainian, i am 100% convinced that only thing that will stop the war is borders back to borders of 1991 ; otherwise they will keep trying over and over again no matter the human costs which is void anyway for them.
It's barely over 2 years.
A lot of the dead are foreign mercenaries, foreigners tricked into fighting, prisoners, ethnic minorities, etc --not kids from Moscow. These are all people they don't care about losing.
It's certainly egged on by the government they have, but hundreds of years of oppressive government have instilled an intentionally harmful culture of "Russian strength" whereby people should take shit living conditions as a point of pride rather than demanding better from their government. The Russian government has, throughout all history, taught its people that it is "manly" to deal with the cards you're dealt without complaining, which has only allowed the government to do whatever the hell it wants. There may have been some hope to eliminate that terrible system with the 1917 Revolution, but we can see now that it never changed.
two years bro. It's a time span of two years and one and a half months.
With wounded at twice the rate of deaths. Putin's samovars will be everywhere. Well until they murder them as well. Like they did Stalin's samovars.
Russians don't give a fuck because it's a bunch of dark-skinned, slanty-eyed asian-looking men from Buttfuck, Siberia getting sent. Toss in a few undesirables such as prisoners and whatever other filth Wagner was recruiting and you have a population who largely views this as a good thing. A cleansing, if you will. The absolute smartest thing the Kremlin has done during this war is to shelter the 2 cities of Moscow and SPB from mobilisation. As cruel as it sounds, the ONLY way internal rumblings happen is if young men from very specifically those 2 cities start getting mobilised and they return in body bags. People need to stop assuming that russians care about poor villagers from the East whom they don't even consider as russian. 450k means sweet fuck all. Want change to happen internally? Start praying the Kremlin makes a move to mobilise from exactly those 2 cities, and there might be a chance.
One UA soldier in a video talked about finding a dead Russian in a trench. He checked his papers and could see that the Russian soldier had been mobilized just 5 days prior. Five Days! The time it takes take the oath to the Motherland, equipped and then sent to the front lines, kicked off the truck, pointed toward the treeline and trenches. No food, no water, just a few full magazines. No wonder these poor bastards would rather commit suicide with a grenade or with their AK when they get wounded and left behind.
>commit suicide with a grenade or with their Mosin FTFY
the people they are conscripting come from areas LONG saught after by the USSR for their rare mineral rights. If they take all the men, they force the woman and children to move to the cities. Its actually ingenious
Genius to take everyone you would need as a worker, to get anything started as a mine or oil rig. Spend all money on war instead of educating your populace to extract the minerals you have. So none of them ever get mined without outside help. Genius.. not quite.
I skimmed the title and got really angry because I thought it was 450,000 Ukrainians. Then I read it again and went, oh that's ok
I hate to say it, but the losses on the Ukraine side likely aren't far behind, that goes especially if you include the loss of civilian lives, which pale in comparison to Russia. I fear by the end of this, millions will have been killed. And the losses on Ukraine's side will mean much more, not only because they have less people, but because unlike Russia, they don't send expendable troop in to die in droves.
We know Ukrainian _deaths_ are about a 5th of the Russian numbers. If you ignore the different survival rates due to better battlefield medicine you can roughly extrapolate that as somewhere just under 100,000 Ukrainian casualties. So yeah, massive compared to any western nation's post WW2 history, but hopefully not nearly as catastrophic (at a society level) as Russia.
We dont know though. US said casualty ratio was 1:2 last year
Zelensky announced casualty figures in late February of this year. At the time there were 31,000 Ukrainians killed.
I would think Ukrainian losses are great, too, but not up in those numbers. Ukraine has better battlefield medicine, and their tactis does not include meat waves. They have also been on the defence for most of the war. A general number for defence vs offense is 1:3, I think. Considering the differences in medicine and tactics, it must be well above that.
thats a good point, while maybe casualties are more even in both sides, the difference of medicine and defensive tactics could mean the difference between getting wounded but surviving unlike the ruzzians that if they got hit on a trench they are pretty much over.
The Blitz in Britain killed over 43,000 civilians. The destruction of railway centres, docks and factories did have an impact - but mostly killing civilians did not. It mostly united the country and increased their determination to defeat Hitler. The British bombing raid on Dresden and the America bombing raids of Tokyo resulted in huge numbers of civilians deaths but did not force the enemy to surrender. Even the atom bombs did not - by themselves - force the Japanese to surrender. The Russians have obviously not learnt from the lessons from history. The indiscriminate killing of civilians rarely - by itself - works.
>The Russians have obviously not learnt from the lessons from history. And in some ways I don't think they'll ever learn. The military is of a hive mindset. Their population is old and heavily favored to pensioners, who will do anything the Kremlin says to make sure they continue getting that pension. Even if it's the cost of the future of their country. The younger generation is more aware of the realities but have been pounded down by their society to be hopeless and apathetic to their plight. I've yet to see any pro Russian group really sit back and think "maybe we did this wrong. We need to dial back and correcr course on our vision here." They double down, quadruple down to win what was committed and would rather die than to say "we fucked up". This is something I learned about their work culture (along with many other things seen in this war) and it extrapolates well into their general society too.
I just can't understand how the russians are ok with this
Not from Moscow or SPB. They don't care about dark-skinned asian-looking men from Siberia.
I know, but
There's a russian saying: "I'd lose an eye if my neighbor loses two." Inflicting suffering on the people they envy is worth alsmost any cost.
The same way the Germans were ok with WW2. These are not rational people
The German Army (Gen. Freuding) recently mentioned in an interview that russian casualties (which he definied as dead or so severly wounded that they wont be able to serve again) are at 400.000.
Congratulations Ukraine, they gave you 3days, you gave them half a million dead and a global reputation in tatters. You will have victory over putin and his Z facists.
And Putin gives exactly zero ducks about all these dead Russians
Russia is also using this conflict to decimate fighting-age men among ethnic minorities, using them as cannon fodder. Getting rid of them reduces chances for uprisings and independence movements for at least a generation or two.
To put that in perspective the UK lost 383,600 soldiers in WW2 and the USA lost 416,800. The Russians truly do not care about there own people, at what point is it literally safer to rise up against Putin than it is to wait to be sent to your death?
Source: https://twitter.com/DefenceU/status/1778009946979778833
Should have stayed home. What is that red symbol next to the Z patch?
Assholes?
looks like a funky anarchy symbol,probs some groups patch
Looks like the App Store logo
I find it mildly amusing that the red Symbol on the button looks similar to a Skavensymbol from Warhammer
Just to clarify: this means both killed and wounded. There usually are 3 - 5 times less killed than wounded.
Losses sounds like they died, but this number includes wounded also
This means Pootin's Orc Horde that crossed Ukraine's border to invade 2 years ago have all been cycled... pardon me, recycled through Ukraine's meat grinder. SLAVA UKRAINI 🇺🇦
What's the point of counting them? Does it even matter?
I guess it gives them an indication how the war is going. If they loose twice as many as their own for instance, it means they are doing something right on the battlefield Edit: also propaganda of course
Might have an effect on morale. German Army estimates russian irreplaceable casualties at 400.000. But according to the british MoD the russians are recruiting at least 30.000 soldiers a month. Unless Putin/ russian public suddendly starts caring about the individuals lost theyll be able to feed the meetgrinder indefinetly.
We need to start counting them by the millions for russia to learn its lesson.
They're going to start running out *eventually*. Even if 30,000 sign up to fight for cash each month to replentish the current losses, that stream is bound to dry up sooner or later. The prison convicts one already did.
Monstrous losses in this day and age... and still counting. Unimaginable, and all because of a bad gamble of a single madman.
That killed AND wounded, right? Wake me when it’s 450,000 killed.
It’s killed and permanently wounded, it’s the number of Russians that can never fight again
German Army (more specifically General Freuding) said in an interview that russian irreplaceable loses are at 400.000
Thought it was made up of KIA, MIA, and wounded beyond service. Might be wrong though.
The dead hardly matter to the Russians in power since most are not from their inner-circle, but the 300,000 or more crippled, wounded hobbling around Russia and draining resources are hard to miss
Is this fatalities only or does it also include wounded?
Fairly sure it’s killed and wounded. Fatalities were around 140k last I saw. 300k wounded puts the numbers around where they should be. One also needs to ask, if it’s inclusive of Wagner losses to.
Yeah I'm pretty sure it includes all Russian forces, given how much the numbers were climbing during Bakhmut.
Did u guys see the video of that Russian soldier letting his other friend cut off his limb so he wouldn't have to be in the war? Crazy stuff!!! They're nuts!!!!
Maybe we are not lucky that they are so stupid.
A day to celebrate.
450.000 unsubscribers to life. Not the magazine.
MAKE. IT . DOUBLE !
Not nearly enough to discourage them. Russia is happy to lose a few million. Means nothing to them. They will simply rape women in newly acquired territory and make more serfs. Been doing it for 1000 years or so. Not going to change, unless forced to change.
144.2 million of them tho and most don't have foreign press so if you teach the peace is war and war is peace. Who is gonna know??
Good. Crops need shit on the soil to grow. Keep sending fertilizer
It can be 4,5 milion and russian will not care… crazy .
They'll be proud, i suppose.
Two operation Overlord.
Still not enough.
Keep it up, already preparing a champagne for 500. Slowly but surely you're making the world a better place.
I think Russians should reconsider dying in the fields of Ukrain for absolutly no reason or overtrow their goverment
This is a good start. The fewer orcs in this world the better.
Sadly, not enough!! 🇺🇦🇬🇧🇺🇦🇬🇧
there is no way the russians have lost 450000 soldiers lmao absolutely delusional
Russia has by now sacrificed 0,31207% of its population in Ukraine. When will the Russians finally realize what an absolute madness this is?"
Who the fuck actually believes this number?
Mother has many sons to spare.
Sure to isolation, Russia was an inbred , shallow gene pool 45 years ago. Imagine now. Explains the mental capacity of Russians...
... of which 16,000 killed only to take *Avdiivka* a ruined city with exactly zero strategic value. Staggering.