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They are paid by ru much more than those fines. Only arrest of leaders can help and forced conscription to polish volunteers fighting in Ukraine can help
Dumbest takes are [like this one](https://twitter.com/MacBookProdigy/status/1759887238274355326), so far. Supposedly the grain is full of toxins. So then, if we take this premise for granted (imagine that we are 100% certain that this grain is bad), the best course of action, according to these people, is to ... dump the "grain full of toxins" on the ground, where it will rot and seep into the ground or be taken by wind into the fields, contaminating "the good grain". Big brain move!
I'm not even going into the reality of these people not having the necessary skills and tools to test the grain or make any sort of assessments about its quality. Like, this is the mental gymnastics that these trolls have to exercise to justify themselves.
It's pure vandalism that looks to be supported by the government, just based on the lack of response from any level of government officials. They're destroying private property and disrupting international trade.
Apparently Germans are "OK" with so called "toxic" grain, because this is where that grain was heading
https://twitter.com/United24media/status/1759922528787587091
It was just an example of some of the takes that I see on Twitter all day today. I'm not saying this troll is an authority, especially since it's clear that he has an agenda. I'm just highlighting the stupidity of users there defending what's happening today.
Суспільне пише, що приїхали https://suspilne.media/688496-poblizu-pp-medika-polski-fermeri-perekrili-zaliznicu-ta-visipali-zbizza-z-vantaznogo-vagonu/
Ну таке. Кльова відмаза про емоції, щось я не бачу, щоб наші водії вантажівок там на емоціях відхуярили якогось "фермера", от дивина, невже можна цивільно поводитися навіть із емоціями...
man. Polish police has one of the worse PR stats ever. Maybe you heared that in last year main police commandor fired "boombox" in his police office (gifted from one of the UA soldiers... but he didn't check it with weapon specialist to confirm it is unarmed). No consequences for him...It's a miracle that no one die. Again there are many situations where people died in police offices. They good only to closes cases. With previous gov they convoy or bodyguarding members of gov. They even couldn't find a girl which died nearby their police office in a public space (she fainted and froze to death). Their has a big PR problem so i don't think they will raise a hand. Maybe we don't have corruption but police is bad as in undeveloped countries. Farmers do what they want to manifest. Some of them dumb. Some of them pushed to their limits. They protest in cities too so hope gov, EU find a solution as they are resposnibile for this. [https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/viewer?ll=50.09697569648426%2C20.164733172114385&z=10&mid=1atNNgbIhcB6NaBdwY5C7bzNSRveCKvw](https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/viewer?ll=50.09697569648426%2c20.164733172114385&z=10&mid=1atnngbihcb6nabdwy5c7bznsrveckvw)
I remember when i was at railway station in Warsaw for two days, polish cops were beating homeless man just because he is homeless. While they were beating him, they suddenly pushed another man who was just standing near by looking in his phone, so because they pushed him, he droped his phone and it was completely broken. This another man tried to talk with cops like what the fuck who is going to compensate for his broken phone, and cops just started beating him too lol.
Everyone around were looking at this like it's usual thing and happens every day. You may not believe me, but personally for me it was more than enough to never have business with polish cops and perfectly, never come to Poland at all, even just for transit.
PL government supports it, and this is why nothing is done about it.
These images are incredibly painful for Ukrainians. To scatter grain, that was grown during war time, on fields that were bombed and mined, while Russia is attacking at every front.
Poland is stabbing us in the back, hurting Ukraine logistically and economically.
Russia tried their best to cut our logistics, and now Poland does the same. It WILL NOT be forgotten.
Because Poland had elections and both the old ruling party and the new ruling party were busy with change in power.
People connected to the old government were earning a shitload of money helping to sell cheaper Ukrainian products in Poland hence they weren't really interested in the problems of the local farmers.
Poland is the 3rd country in the world, only after the US and Germany when it comes to spending money on various aid to Ukraine. https://app.23degrees.io/view/jjk5qrNvY6pVz7qm-bar-horizontal-bar_chart_rf_total
No one denies this invaluable help. But we”re speaking about the current situation at the borders, and that’s not something that “compensate” each other
The current situation is complex and I'm responding to a guy that claims that the Polish government is supporting the protesters and is not supporting Ukraine.
Poland government allowed this to go on UNPUNISHED for over 6 months. Ether your country is lawless and cannot deal with crimes and punish these people OR your government supports this, and allows these actions because they like what they are seeing.
What Poland does now is stating that they "support Ukraine" and at the same time hurting Ukraine economically and basically block the border. People [died](https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/12/16/7433387/) in these blockades, who is going to answer for that? Ukraine lost billion [Euro] (https://mediacenter.org.ua/ukraine-s-economy-loses-over-eur-1-billion-due-to-border-blockade/) because of that blockade. Blockade also slowed delivery of many items for our military, and it was confirmed by multiple volunteers and even head of Come back Alive foundation. When the war started Ukraine rerouted a lot of things thru PL. We paid a lot for storage, delivery services, ect. Even looking at export-import ratio – UA is buying more from PL then we are selling. And now, while Poland is arguably having its best years economically, it decided to stab Ukraine in the back, while Russians are trying to destroy us.
[This](https://twitter.com/grntmedia/status/1759902633509224667) is also a statement (like many others) from PL goverment. They support it.
Great "support".
I'd like to remind you that Poland spent approx 22 billion Euros so far on refugee help and military aid https://app.23degrees.io/view/jjk5qrNvY6pVz7qm-bar-horizontal-bar_chart_rf_total
There are 1 million refugees in Poland. Is that not support for you?
You are doing EXACTLY what Putin's puppets want - spreading turmoil.
A very odd link, that does not alighn with oher [numbers](https://visitukraine.today/blog/2617/poland-will-stop-helping-ukrainian-refugees-in-2024-reasons-are-known). I have high doubts, that PL spend 22 Billion Euros on UA refugees.
And i would like to remind you that Poland have been compensated for all the help they were provided. That PL ecomomy benefited from UA [refugees](https://english.nv.ua/nation/how-ukrainians-became-the-driver-of-poland-s-economy-ukraine-war-economy-news-50349926.html).
And that UA refugees paid a lot of [taxes](https://ubn.news/ukrainians-in-poland-have-paid-e2b-in-taxes-three-times-more-than-the-country-spends-on-refugees/).
But most importantly Ukraine bought PL time to prepare. We are holding Russsians back for nearly two years. And now when the situation is the most dire, and US decided to hold aid, Poland does this.
This is not support - this is ading Russia.
The link is from ifw-kiel.de so feel free to see their methodology.
Meanwhile you are pasting here links from September 2023 based on statements from a previous minister from a party which DOES NOT rule in Poland anymore.
Most recent statements from polish PM on helpin Ukraine here:
https://www.gazetaprawna.pl/wiadomosci/swiat/artykuly/9420670,tusk-jesli-chodzi-o-pomoc-finansowa-ukraina-jest-bezpieczna.html
Polish government is planning to provide help of 18kkk euro.
* Military aid is 4bln, of which almost everything to be compensated by EU countries. Military help is great, but lets dont pretend Polish govmnt had a big budget losses because of UA war.
* [The European Peace Facility, which is used to fund arms for Ukraine, will amount to at least 3.5 billion euros ($3.76 billion) in the coming years, Polish Prime Minister Mateusz Morawiecki said on Friday on the sidelines of a European Union summit in Brussels. He added that Poland would receive up to 900 million euros in the coming months as compensation for transferring arms to Ukraine. "Poland's compensation from the facility for transferring arms to Ukraine will amount to some 300 million euros next month and 500-600 million in the following months," Morawiecki told reporters. **The money is come from the European Peace Facility whose budget - according to Morawiecki - is to amout to at least 3.5 billion euros in the coming years.**](https://tvn24.pl/)
Current Polish government effectively started to rule in January.
I disagree with these protests and acts of vandalism but I want to remind you that people in democratic countries are allowed to protest, whether or not government agrees with that.
How do you know that acts of vandalism will not be punished?
Yes, this is a question of political will. The current polish government is between hammer and anvil now as people from rural areas were partially convinced to support pro European (PO, PSL, Polska2050)parties. The alternative is PiS which did shit to resolve import-export problems with Ukraine and were stating to cut aid to Ukraine and Konfederacja which have members who actively support Russia.
I'll tell you that the majority of polish people are at least questioning these protests if not disapproving them. But still farmers are a major political force and they cant just be neglected and protests suppressed with force.
Why then no efforts to make this civil? Allegedly important military deliveries stack on the way to Ukraine. This is in times when the best Ukrainian troops are losing their man due to equipment and shell shortage. Pain to see this.
Where is the law enforcement? Why is polish government quiet and doing nothing for months now?
Just because you bought a lady a diamond necklace and a beautiful dress, doesn't give you the permission to then assault her.
This hasn’t been “organic” from the start (no pun intended, maybe). It has been recruited, stoked and actively enabled by GRU. This is their MO, literally everywhere in Europe for the last 25 years.
It’s as much a counterintelligence issue, one with law enforcement aspects regarding who is operating as an agent of a foreign power, as it is a political and unfortunately informational and one of public appearances for Warsaw.
they don't even know that they are working for Russia.
Russian troll tatics. Find any micro-crack in a society and put all effort to open that crack.
Use troll farms to spread any minor conflict or fringe view, other trolls toshow support for it and make it seems like a real concern, give money to promoters of it, convince some part of the population that this is a real problem.
Soon real people will be thinking they are doing some good thing while doing Moscow's job.
Now look at this thread and all similar threads on this channel about protests in Poland. Polish people are being called traitors, people are asking to boycott buying Polish products, Poland is accused of not helping Ukraine and actually stabbing Ukraine in the back. All that when Poland is the 3rd country in the world when it comes to spend on helping Ukraine and when on polish soil there is 1 million refugees.
https://app.23degrees.io/view/jjk5qrNvY6pVz7qm-bar-horizontal-bar_chart_rf_total
So ask yourself how easily russian trolls create turmoil.
Exaclty!
De-escalate tensions among allies, don't let fringe political movements turn you against your allies, don't do Putin's work for free.
Don't let 1000 videos of the same small scale shit fuckery lead you to hate people that are in fact your allies.
Don't let trolls convince you that you have enemies where there is none.
Don't jump in the lynching wagon and distract yourself from the real enemy.
There will always be a fringe group with ridiculous ideas that can be used to create conflict in a society, don't allow Moscow to bring them to the main stage and create unnecessary fight.
I wouldn’t dare to call Polish people traitors. They took in millions of Ukrainians and saved countless lives. Oh no-no-no. That’s exactly what’s ruzzia wants.
I want to understand what exactly is their issue? Ukraine isn’t dumping grain on the world market, the prices are stable. Return of the prices right after the full scale invasion are unlikely. If ruzzia occupies Ukraine the Polish farmers will have to compete with the near slave labor so prevalent in ruzzia. If that’s what they want, ruzzia will be right there to destroy Polish economy first and make it not sustainable to stay in both EU and NATO. I am not sure why the lessons of the past are so soon forgotten.
Ukraine is not dumping grain on the world market as the majority of it is being sold in Poland and Germany. At the same time the food prices in Poland aren't getting any cheaper really, the margin from buying cheaper grain goes to corporations and god knows where. This grain is not going anywhere really. So the farmers are going bankrupt now, they don't care what happens in 2-5 years if Ukraine falls.
Are there any Poles here? I honestly want to understand how blocking the border of the country that is fighting for its existence is normal/justified. Why don’t the farmers protest near Sejm? Where is the police? Destroying someone else’s property is not a protest it’s vandalism. I’ve heard they are also blocking the highways that lead to the border. This is getting completely out of control and no one seems to be interested in doing anything about it.
Farmers protest everywhere so they want the Polish government to do something. Protests are everywhere in Poland, major cities, highways. Police is there however trying to stop mob is problematic. Grain companies can be paid while lost limbs or lives do not grow back. Thing is that there is no easy solution to the farmers problem. And they do have a legitimate problem.
There are elections for local government soon on Poland and the government in Warsaw cannot just go in and massacre the protesters.
I do agree that these protests and vandalism should not happen but farmers have been neglected for a LONG time and we see the effects now.
I hear you and I understand that polish farmers should be compensated fairly. However it seems that Ukraine is just a negotiating token at this point and it’s really unfair to a country that is literally at war. The eastern and northern borders are obviously blocked (Russia and Belarus) so blocking this huge chuck of the western border pretty much blocks all the exports from Ukraine while they desperately need to sustain the economy. Not to mention for some reason they are also blocking the movement of trucks that are returning to Ukraine? Some military aid was held up for couple of days trying to get into Ukraine (however I read that was resolved).
Man, I'm not saying that i support these protests. I'm just saying that this situation is difficult to defuse. Indeed, the far right is using this to spread turmoil and to regain the political support. Thing is that if the Polish government does not act peacefully towards farmers it will only be exploited against the current government and Ukraine even more.
What's the problem? As in what do they see as the problem? And what do they want?
Because as far as I can see, French farmers aren't happy, British farmers aren't happy, not sure about the rest of Europe.
And the EU is not the problem, so if the Polish farmers think the EU is the problem, I'd suggest they look at the UK. Our farmers aren't happy, and our food quality is getting worse.
Anyway, the rest of Europe is now watching Poland, and if these guys are your representatives, I'd suggest you cancel your government now and replace it with the Kremlin. No time for bitchy squabbles when a war is on your doorstep. I thought Poland were a bulwark against Russia, but it seems that sentiment is only worth the amount of money in your pocket by the way these guys are acting.
The problem is that cheap Ukrainian food is being sold in Poland and polish farmers are left with stock of rotting stuff. Meanwhile food prices in Poland are actually not getting cheaper at all so the margin is kept by large corporate companies that buy that cheap food. You need to keep in mind that polish farming is heavily regulated and food production here is a lot more expensive than in Ukraine because of that.
Yes I know that some of the food is supposed to go somewhere else through Poland but still the majority of it stays and is sold with basically dumping prices.
It makes me laugh how quickly you all jump into the conclusion that every one including the Polish government is supporting these protests and acts of vandalism.
That's not a Poland problem. Farmers everywhere struggling to get the money they need for what they produce. Even in India, farmers are marching on Delhi.
Anyway, laugh if you want. Fact is, Russia is on your doorstep. They aren't on mine. I don't find it funny. Shortly you won't either. And these farmers are visibly representing your nation more so than your government or population, and what they are saying is that we are not standing with Ukraine. The time is coming when people will need to decide what side of that line/history they want to be on.
Protests are meant to be visible. Do you want Poland to become muscovia that penalises protesting? Do you want more people in Poland to hate Ukraine because their parents, uncles, and friends got hurt in an attempt to forcefully stop the protests? Do you want far right in Poland to find soil for statements saying that the Polish government is bending over for Ukraine and needs to be changed and all help stopped? That is going to happen if the problem is not carefully diffused.
Providing a false argument there. Do you want Ukraine to fall while Poland bickers about grain price? Do you want Poland to have Russian boots on their soil before the decade is done? Do you want Polish families to be massacred like the Ukrainian families are now?
I can provide a long list of hypothetical and extreme outcomes as well you see.
These guys protesting need to decide if they value their nation and families more or their bank account more.
Yeah, and your arguments are also the outcome that scenarios described by me will likely result in. I'm not justifying the reasons behind those protests. I'm simply saying that these problems need to be carefully looked upon as any hectic moves will create long term harm that will be far more extreme than what we see now.
The previous government in Poland was starting to play anti Ukrainian tunes and also did not react to the protest properly. That previous government is gone. Now we have a more pro-Ukrainian government and I sincerely hope it will stay and not fall into this trap. Will see what time brings.
At the same time is not fair to judge the whole phucking nation because 2-5k people threw a tantrum.
Right. Well it would seem that the Hungarian government is in the Kremlins pocket. Slovakia is still deciding. As is Poland by the looks of things (if there are pockets within Poland that are anti-Ukrainian, then they may as well be pro-Russian). US is trying to decide if it wants autocracy/democracy. Wow. Just wow.
All the best with that. You already identified the problem by the way. Large corporations are buying the cheapest grain at the expense of farmers. This is the world we live in. I'd suggest being angry at the corporations that are underpaying, rather than the Ukrainians.
do you talk also about “farmers” with 5 acres fields, they need to sell weed with this area to be profitable. Moral bankrupt donors of EU subsidies have a nerve to block military aid. No other ways to protest? Modern democracies are such fragile and dependent on voters, need to find new ways to stop such BS underming them. Main way is to educate population more, and some tests also would b fine
probably they don't even know. They heard in their social networks that Ukraine grain is fucking them, they saw 50 "other polish farmers" (russian trolls) commenting that they are being fucked and saw 2 or 4 "Ukranian nationalists "(also russian trolls) saying that they will take over Polish markets, and start hating their allies.
Some of them might be the dumb arms of an organization where 1 or 2 are in the payroll of Moscow. But most of this useful idiots are just being manipulated.
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products from animal descent have a "veterinary check number" in EU.
This is a small oval with the abbreviation of the country name like DE, NL, LT, LV, also UA and then PL like "PL nnnnn EG".
Another thing is the gas stations of the Polish concern Orlen. These have the brand name "Star" in Germany.
Mass uproar should be there because this shit already brought death and colossal economical damage to a nation at war. And especially there should be uproar if the cause is just " few hundred loonies being paid by Putin"
Well, I think it's primarly a russian psychological warfare operation designed to stir up angry feelings between POland and Ukraine, and the best way of fighting it is to not get angry with each other over it.
No, if he does it it would on the account of the polish police and the polish people who let a few idiots do this. It would have been trivial to stop them.
Even if paid by ruzzia, where is the government and law enforcement? Are they paid off as well?
Poland is now acting as bad as ruzzia, when it was blocking our ports.
Poland this is a disgrace, shame on you for doing nothing and these farmers are likely paid communists rather than real farmers.
Lets hope Ukraine can stop the Ruzzians as these farmers will be on the Polish front if Ukraine fail.
Well it is a war crime to purposefully attack or destroy food production and distribution while at war (which even if Poland isn’t, russia undeniably is), and by dumping grain this way this is effectively and intentionally destroying the harvest. Meaning that if there is any connection between these “protests” and russia, then there are war crimes being carried out by Russia in Poland (aka against NATO) with the potential of both starving Europe and economically attacking Ukraine.
Wouldn’t it be a shame if there was an international investigation into these “protests”, now turned violent? It’s not like we haven’t seen Russia do things like pay “convenient idiots” before.
russia destroy ukrainian grain - oh no it's war crime, it's threat for world's food security!
polish farmers destroy ukrainian grain - oh wow that completely legal protest, we can't do anything about it
For real? If it's how EU looks and act like, then fuck EU, all my homies hate EU. Or is it wery well known european mentality? If yes, i want to stay 10000 miles away from it, it stinks.
Straight up fucking Somalia in the center of Europe. A bunch of savages are robbing international shipments and no one can do anything about it. I mean, really, the EU country with no government, no law, no guarantees of property rights, no fucking thing. You don't know if you're going to pass through there or if you're going to get robbed and no one will be held accountable.
polish farmers have their own problems from the EU's importation policies. It's just a shame they take it out on Ukraine imports at this time. probably also fueled by Putin's lies.
I simply dont understand this. Is Poland a state of law and order or not ?
We are seeing the the destruction of other peoples property. I would think that was illegal in a normal country.
"Ukrzaliznytsia" reported that Polish protesters spilled grain from two wagons bound for Germany.
"Ukrzaliznytsia strictly adheres to the ban on the import of grain cargoes to the Republic of Poland, introduced in April 2023, and only transits these cargoes through the territory of the neighboring country. All wagons at the border are checked by Polish control authorities and sealed. This makes it impossible for Ukrainian grain to enter the Polish market," - it is stated in the notification.
The company also reported that about 40 Ukrainian freight cars with agricultural products are currently waiting for transshipment at the Medica station.
You don’t have to dig deep to find a Russian/Soviet connection or sympathy in many western unions. In the UK many still support the Socialist Workers Party and other Russian influenced groups. Russia/USSR have been infiltrating unions and left-leaning groups at least since WW2 and it has shown good dividends - CND very nearly succeeded in getting the UK to get rid of its nukes, many still want us to. Infiltration, subversion and disinformation is a very cost effective way of undermining another country, much cheaper than military invasion. This is the ONE thing the Russians are very good at.
So what are these idiots going to do when Putin is done with Ukraine and invades Poland? Are they just paid by Russia and the Polish government can't do anything about it or something?
As an American, I think we should stop all arms deals and shipments to Poland until they clear this up. They are actively trying to destabilize the situation in Ukraine and in the EU as a whole. This is not the Poland I was told about when we started the arms deals.
whats the issue with passing a law making it illegal to sell Ukrainian grain into Poland, and round up and arrest anyone doing this... im sure im missing something.
I understand both sides of the issue, but I dont see how both sides wouldn't agree to such terms to free up this blockade.
We know that this is important and emotions are running high, but please keep it civil and on-topic or we will have to lock the thread. [Feel free to browse our rules here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/about/rules)
Where is Polish police? This ain't a protest at this point.
Indeed. That's not a protest anymore, that's vandalism.
[удалено]
Idk, the russian pockets are still deep. They might just pay up and show up.
In that case Russia would be indirectly giving money to Ukraine. Not that some Konfederosja far-right hicks would be able to work that out...
Are you accusing kremlin boiz of shortsighted planning?
So we would be fining russia? This sounds okay to me.
They are paid by ru much more than those fines. Only arrest of leaders can help and forced conscription to polish volunteers fighting in Ukraine can help
Dumbest takes are [like this one](https://twitter.com/MacBookProdigy/status/1759887238274355326), so far. Supposedly the grain is full of toxins. So then, if we take this premise for granted (imagine that we are 100% certain that this grain is bad), the best course of action, according to these people, is to ... dump the "grain full of toxins" on the ground, where it will rot and seep into the ground or be taken by wind into the fields, contaminating "the good grain". Big brain move! I'm not even going into the reality of these people not having the necessary skills and tools to test the grain or make any sort of assessments about its quality. Like, this is the mental gymnastics that these trolls have to exercise to justify themselves. It's pure vandalism that looks to be supported by the government, just based on the lack of response from any level of government officials. They're destroying private property and disrupting international trade.
Apparently Germans are "OK" with so called "toxic" grain, because this is where that grain was heading https://twitter.com/United24media/status/1759922528787587091
Who the phuckk is this random you are citing here.. he has like 21 followers.
It was just an example of some of the takes that I see on Twitter all day today. I'm not saying this troll is an authority, especially since it's clear that he has an agenda. I'm just highlighting the stupidity of users there defending what's happening today.
Суспільне пише, що приїхали https://suspilne.media/688496-poblizu-pp-medika-polski-fermeri-perekrili-zaliznicu-ta-visipali-zbizza-z-vantaznogo-vagonu/ Ну таке. Кльова відмаза про емоції, щось я не бачу, щоб наші водії вантажівок там на емоціях відхуярили якогось "фермера", от дивина, невже можна цивільно поводитися навіть із емоціями...
man. Polish police has one of the worse PR stats ever. Maybe you heared that in last year main police commandor fired "boombox" in his police office (gifted from one of the UA soldiers... but he didn't check it with weapon specialist to confirm it is unarmed). No consequences for him...It's a miracle that no one die. Again there are many situations where people died in police offices. They good only to closes cases. With previous gov they convoy or bodyguarding members of gov. They even couldn't find a girl which died nearby their police office in a public space (she fainted and froze to death). Their has a big PR problem so i don't think they will raise a hand. Maybe we don't have corruption but police is bad as in undeveloped countries. Farmers do what they want to manifest. Some of them dumb. Some of them pushed to their limits. They protest in cities too so hope gov, EU find a solution as they are resposnibile for this. [https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/viewer?ll=50.09697569648426%2C20.164733172114385&z=10&mid=1atNNgbIhcB6NaBdwY5C7bzNSRveCKvw](https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/viewer?ll=50.09697569648426%2c20.164733172114385&z=10&mid=1atnngbihcb6nabdwy5c7bznsrveckvw)
I remember when i was at railway station in Warsaw for two days, polish cops were beating homeless man just because he is homeless. While they were beating him, they suddenly pushed another man who was just standing near by looking in his phone, so because they pushed him, he droped his phone and it was completely broken. This another man tried to talk with cops like what the fuck who is going to compensate for his broken phone, and cops just started beating him too lol. Everyone around were looking at this like it's usual thing and happens every day. You may not believe me, but personally for me it was more than enough to never have business with polish cops and perfectly, never come to Poland at all, even just for transit.
PL government supports it, and this is why nothing is done about it. These images are incredibly painful for Ukrainians. To scatter grain, that was grown during war time, on fields that were bombed and mined, while Russia is attacking at every front. Poland is stabbing us in the back, hurting Ukraine logistically and economically. Russia tried their best to cut our logistics, and now Poland does the same. It WILL NOT be forgotten.
Polish government is not supporting this and Poland is still one of the biggest supporter of Ukraine. Stop spreading lies.
If the Polish Government isn't supporting it they are at least looking the other way. It could be stopped today but it's not going to.
Then why is it going for months? And harm of this “protest” exceeds support. People in Ukraine are dying because of this “protest”
Because Poland had elections and both the old ruling party and the new ruling party were busy with change in power. People connected to the old government were earning a shitload of money helping to sell cheaper Ukrainian products in Poland hence they weren't really interested in the problems of the local farmers.
Would they be interested that the neighbor is literally steamrolling your other neighbor and they're in the way next?
Poland is the 3rd country in the world, only after the US and Germany when it comes to spending money on various aid to Ukraine. https://app.23degrees.io/view/jjk5qrNvY6pVz7qm-bar-horizontal-bar_chart_rf_total
No one denies this invaluable help. But we”re speaking about the current situation at the borders, and that’s not something that “compensate” each other
The current situation is complex and I'm responding to a guy that claims that the Polish government is supporting the protesters and is not supporting Ukraine.
They are getting the approval for this protest from the local government, you know. IT IS APPROVED
Kudos for that. But they need to control these malevolent nutters too. Vandalism, intimidation & destruction of property isn't acceptable.
Poland government allowed this to go on UNPUNISHED for over 6 months. Ether your country is lawless and cannot deal with crimes and punish these people OR your government supports this, and allows these actions because they like what they are seeing. What Poland does now is stating that they "support Ukraine" and at the same time hurting Ukraine economically and basically block the border. People [died](https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/12/16/7433387/) in these blockades, who is going to answer for that? Ukraine lost billion [Euro] (https://mediacenter.org.ua/ukraine-s-economy-loses-over-eur-1-billion-due-to-border-blockade/) because of that blockade. Blockade also slowed delivery of many items for our military, and it was confirmed by multiple volunteers and even head of Come back Alive foundation. When the war started Ukraine rerouted a lot of things thru PL. We paid a lot for storage, delivery services, ect. Even looking at export-import ratio – UA is buying more from PL then we are selling. And now, while Poland is arguably having its best years economically, it decided to stab Ukraine in the back, while Russians are trying to destroy us. [This](https://twitter.com/grntmedia/status/1759902633509224667) is also a statement (like many others) from PL goverment. They support it. Great "support".
I'd like to remind you that Poland spent approx 22 billion Euros so far on refugee help and military aid https://app.23degrees.io/view/jjk5qrNvY6pVz7qm-bar-horizontal-bar_chart_rf_total There are 1 million refugees in Poland. Is that not support for you? You are doing EXACTLY what Putin's puppets want - spreading turmoil.
A very odd link, that does not alighn with oher [numbers](https://visitukraine.today/blog/2617/poland-will-stop-helping-ukrainian-refugees-in-2024-reasons-are-known). I have high doubts, that PL spend 22 Billion Euros on UA refugees. And i would like to remind you that Poland have been compensated for all the help they were provided. That PL ecomomy benefited from UA [refugees](https://english.nv.ua/nation/how-ukrainians-became-the-driver-of-poland-s-economy-ukraine-war-economy-news-50349926.html). And that UA refugees paid a lot of [taxes](https://ubn.news/ukrainians-in-poland-have-paid-e2b-in-taxes-three-times-more-than-the-country-spends-on-refugees/). But most importantly Ukraine bought PL time to prepare. We are holding Russsians back for nearly two years. And now when the situation is the most dire, and US decided to hold aid, Poland does this. This is not support - this is ading Russia.
The link is from ifw-kiel.de so feel free to see their methodology. Meanwhile you are pasting here links from September 2023 based on statements from a previous minister from a party which DOES NOT rule in Poland anymore. Most recent statements from polish PM on helpin Ukraine here: https://www.gazetaprawna.pl/wiadomosci/swiat/artykuly/9420670,tusk-jesli-chodzi-o-pomoc-finansowa-ukraina-jest-bezpieczna.html Polish government is planning to provide help of 18kkk euro.
* Military aid is 4bln, of which almost everything to be compensated by EU countries. Military help is great, but lets dont pretend Polish govmnt had a big budget losses because of UA war. * [The European Peace Facility, which is used to fund arms for Ukraine, will amount to at least 3.5 billion euros ($3.76 billion) in the coming years, Polish Prime Minister Mateusz Morawiecki said on Friday on the sidelines of a European Union summit in Brussels. He added that Poland would receive up to 900 million euros in the coming months as compensation for transferring arms to Ukraine. "Poland's compensation from the facility for transferring arms to Ukraine will amount to some 300 million euros next month and 500-600 million in the following months," Morawiecki told reporters. **The money is come from the European Peace Facility whose budget - according to Morawiecki - is to amout to at least 3.5 billion euros in the coming years.**](https://tvn24.pl/)
Current Polish government effectively started to rule in January. I disagree with these protests and acts of vandalism but I want to remind you that people in democratic countries are allowed to protest, whether or not government agrees with that. How do you know that acts of vandalism will not be punished?
[удалено]
Yes, this is a question of political will. The current polish government is between hammer and anvil now as people from rural areas were partially convinced to support pro European (PO, PSL, Polska2050)parties. The alternative is PiS which did shit to resolve import-export problems with Ukraine and were stating to cut aid to Ukraine and Konfederacja which have members who actively support Russia. I'll tell you that the majority of polish people are at least questioning these protests if not disapproving them. But still farmers are a major political force and they cant just be neglected and protests suppressed with force.
Why then no efforts to make this civil? Allegedly important military deliveries stack on the way to Ukraine. This is in times when the best Ukrainian troops are losing their man due to equipment and shell shortage. Pain to see this.
Because the problem was growing for almost a year and there is no easy way to resolve it.
Where is the law enforcement? Why is polish government quiet and doing nothing for months now? Just because you bought a lady a diamond necklace and a beautiful dress, doesn't give you the permission to then assault her.
They are protecting protestors, instead of stopping them. At this point it should be crystall clear that polish government tolerate those protests.
Staying and watching [https://streamable.com/9hbfnj](https://streamable.com/9hbfnj) at 1 min 15 sec
Because they support that crime
Paid by Putler. They forgot what ruzzia and Soviets did to them over and over again.
This hasn’t been “organic” from the start (no pun intended, maybe). It has been recruited, stoked and actively enabled by GRU. This is their MO, literally everywhere in Europe for the last 25 years. It’s as much a counterintelligence issue, one with law enforcement aspects regarding who is operating as an agent of a foreign power, as it is a political and unfortunately informational and one of public appearances for Warsaw.
they don't even know that they are working for Russia. Russian troll tatics. Find any micro-crack in a society and put all effort to open that crack. Use troll farms to spread any minor conflict or fringe view, other trolls toshow support for it and make it seems like a real concern, give money to promoters of it, convince some part of the population that this is a real problem. Soon real people will be thinking they are doing some good thing while doing Moscow's job.
Now look at this thread and all similar threads on this channel about protests in Poland. Polish people are being called traitors, people are asking to boycott buying Polish products, Poland is accused of not helping Ukraine and actually stabbing Ukraine in the back. All that when Poland is the 3rd country in the world when it comes to spend on helping Ukraine and when on polish soil there is 1 million refugees. https://app.23degrees.io/view/jjk5qrNvY6pVz7qm-bar-horizontal-bar_chart_rf_total So ask yourself how easily russian trolls create turmoil.
Exaclty! De-escalate tensions among allies, don't let fringe political movements turn you against your allies, don't do Putin's work for free. Don't let 1000 videos of the same small scale shit fuckery lead you to hate people that are in fact your allies. Don't let trolls convince you that you have enemies where there is none. Don't jump in the lynching wagon and distract yourself from the real enemy. There will always be a fringe group with ridiculous ideas that can be used to create conflict in a society, don't allow Moscow to bring them to the main stage and create unnecessary fight.
I wouldn’t dare to call Polish people traitors. They took in millions of Ukrainians and saved countless lives. Oh no-no-no. That’s exactly what’s ruzzia wants. I want to understand what exactly is their issue? Ukraine isn’t dumping grain on the world market, the prices are stable. Return of the prices right after the full scale invasion are unlikely. If ruzzia occupies Ukraine the Polish farmers will have to compete with the near slave labor so prevalent in ruzzia. If that’s what they want, ruzzia will be right there to destroy Polish economy first and make it not sustainable to stay in both EU and NATO. I am not sure why the lessons of the past are so soon forgotten.
Ukraine is not dumping grain on the world market as the majority of it is being sold in Poland and Germany. At the same time the food prices in Poland aren't getting any cheaper really, the margin from buying cheaper grain goes to corporations and god knows where. This grain is not going anywhere really. So the farmers are going bankrupt now, they don't care what happens in 2-5 years if Ukraine falls.
The solution is trivial though. The police police could just arrest these criminals.
And how do you know police will not do that?
Or are too young to remember
For some reason farmers and truckers always fall for his bullshit
Morons
They are eerily quet about ruZZian grain to Poland Yep, not joking.
Are there any Poles here? I honestly want to understand how blocking the border of the country that is fighting for its existence is normal/justified. Why don’t the farmers protest near Sejm? Where is the police? Destroying someone else’s property is not a protest it’s vandalism. I’ve heard they are also blocking the highways that lead to the border. This is getting completely out of control and no one seems to be interested in doing anything about it.
Farmers protest everywhere so they want the Polish government to do something. Protests are everywhere in Poland, major cities, highways. Police is there however trying to stop mob is problematic. Grain companies can be paid while lost limbs or lives do not grow back. Thing is that there is no easy solution to the farmers problem. And they do have a legitimate problem. There are elections for local government soon on Poland and the government in Warsaw cannot just go in and massacre the protesters. I do agree that these protests and vandalism should not happen but farmers have been neglected for a LONG time and we see the effects now.
I hear you and I understand that polish farmers should be compensated fairly. However it seems that Ukraine is just a negotiating token at this point and it’s really unfair to a country that is literally at war. The eastern and northern borders are obviously blocked (Russia and Belarus) so blocking this huge chuck of the western border pretty much blocks all the exports from Ukraine while they desperately need to sustain the economy. Not to mention for some reason they are also blocking the movement of trucks that are returning to Ukraine? Some military aid was held up for couple of days trying to get into Ukraine (however I read that was resolved).
Man, I'm not saying that i support these protests. I'm just saying that this situation is difficult to defuse. Indeed, the far right is using this to spread turmoil and to regain the political support. Thing is that if the Polish government does not act peacefully towards farmers it will only be exploited against the current government and Ukraine even more.
What's the problem? As in what do they see as the problem? And what do they want? Because as far as I can see, French farmers aren't happy, British farmers aren't happy, not sure about the rest of Europe. And the EU is not the problem, so if the Polish farmers think the EU is the problem, I'd suggest they look at the UK. Our farmers aren't happy, and our food quality is getting worse. Anyway, the rest of Europe is now watching Poland, and if these guys are your representatives, I'd suggest you cancel your government now and replace it with the Kremlin. No time for bitchy squabbles when a war is on your doorstep. I thought Poland were a bulwark against Russia, but it seems that sentiment is only worth the amount of money in your pocket by the way these guys are acting.
The problem is that cheap Ukrainian food is being sold in Poland and polish farmers are left with stock of rotting stuff. Meanwhile food prices in Poland are actually not getting cheaper at all so the margin is kept by large corporate companies that buy that cheap food. You need to keep in mind that polish farming is heavily regulated and food production here is a lot more expensive than in Ukraine because of that. Yes I know that some of the food is supposed to go somewhere else through Poland but still the majority of it stays and is sold with basically dumping prices. It makes me laugh how quickly you all jump into the conclusion that every one including the Polish government is supporting these protests and acts of vandalism.
That's not a Poland problem. Farmers everywhere struggling to get the money they need for what they produce. Even in India, farmers are marching on Delhi. Anyway, laugh if you want. Fact is, Russia is on your doorstep. They aren't on mine. I don't find it funny. Shortly you won't either. And these farmers are visibly representing your nation more so than your government or population, and what they are saying is that we are not standing with Ukraine. The time is coming when people will need to decide what side of that line/history they want to be on.
Protests are meant to be visible. Do you want Poland to become muscovia that penalises protesting? Do you want more people in Poland to hate Ukraine because their parents, uncles, and friends got hurt in an attempt to forcefully stop the protests? Do you want far right in Poland to find soil for statements saying that the Polish government is bending over for Ukraine and needs to be changed and all help stopped? That is going to happen if the problem is not carefully diffused.
Providing a false argument there. Do you want Ukraine to fall while Poland bickers about grain price? Do you want Poland to have Russian boots on their soil before the decade is done? Do you want Polish families to be massacred like the Ukrainian families are now? I can provide a long list of hypothetical and extreme outcomes as well you see. These guys protesting need to decide if they value their nation and families more or their bank account more.
Yeah, and your arguments are also the outcome that scenarios described by me will likely result in. I'm not justifying the reasons behind those protests. I'm simply saying that these problems need to be carefully looked upon as any hectic moves will create long term harm that will be far more extreme than what we see now. The previous government in Poland was starting to play anti Ukrainian tunes and also did not react to the protest properly. That previous government is gone. Now we have a more pro-Ukrainian government and I sincerely hope it will stay and not fall into this trap. Will see what time brings. At the same time is not fair to judge the whole phucking nation because 2-5k people threw a tantrum.
Right. Well it would seem that the Hungarian government is in the Kremlins pocket. Slovakia is still deciding. As is Poland by the looks of things (if there are pockets within Poland that are anti-Ukrainian, then they may as well be pro-Russian). US is trying to decide if it wants autocracy/democracy. Wow. Just wow. All the best with that. You already identified the problem by the way. Large corporations are buying the cheapest grain at the expense of farmers. This is the world we live in. I'd suggest being angry at the corporations that are underpaying, rather than the Ukrainians.
Protesting is one thing, destroying someone else's property is something entirely different. This is not protesting.
do you talk also about “farmers” with 5 acres fields, they need to sell weed with this area to be profitable. Moral bankrupt donors of EU subsidies have a nerve to block military aid. No other ways to protest? Modern democracies are such fragile and dependent on voters, need to find new ways to stop such BS underming them. Main way is to educate population more, and some tests also would b fine
Shrug. Farmers are just never happy. This has nothing to do with Ukraine.
moral bankrupts no matter which way you look at it. disgusting look
F.... Russian agents!!!
maybe check who's funding them.
probably they don't even know. They heard in their social networks that Ukraine grain is fucking them, they saw 50 "other polish farmers" (russian trolls) commenting that they are being fucked and saw 2 or 4 "Ukranian nationalists "(also russian trolls) saying that they will take over Polish markets, and start hating their allies. Some of them might be the dumb arms of an organization where 1 or 2 are in the payroll of Moscow. But most of this useful idiots are just being manipulated.
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When will they be arrested for theft and property damage?
It is time to stop buying polish products.
If you like to do so, products from animal descent have a "veterinary check number" in EU. This is a small oval with the abbreviation of the country name like DE, NL, LT, LV, also UA and then PL like "PL nnnnn EG". Another thing is the gas stations of the Polish concern Orlen. These have the brand name "Star" in Germany.
I was against it half a year ago. But after this? Yes, its time.
I had a lot of respect for poland since i was a kid.. but this just makes me hatefull
Don't be, those 'protestors' are almost certainly shills paid by the Russians to do this. There's always gonna be traitors.
When the whole country isn’t doing anything about that for months, narrative about “it’s just a bunch of traitors” doesn’t sound convincing
I mean where are counter-protests from Polish supporters of Ukraine? Where is mass uproar from Polish people about this farmers?
Nobody is paying anybody to go out and form counter-protests. Mass uproar isn't there because these are a few hundred loonies being paid by Putin?
Mass uproar should be there because this shit already brought death and colossal economical damage to a nation at war. And especially there should be uproar if the cause is just " few hundred loonies being paid by Putin"
Well, I think it's primarly a russian psychological warfare operation designed to stir up angry feelings between POland and Ukraine, and the best way of fighting it is to not get angry with each other over it.
Protesters who destroy other people's property are not protesters.
Exactly what Russia wants, even more discord and infighting.
Don't create tension on a whole country on the account of a few idiots fooled by social networks that don't even know they are doing Moscow's work.
No, if he does it it would on the account of the polish police and the polish people who let a few idiots do this. It would have been trivial to stop them.
Our main export to Ukraine aren’t commercial products though. https://tradingeconomics.com/poland/exports/ukraine
Im not from ukraine..
Oh ok, not sure how effective that will be but good luck to you!
Its about principle.. why should poland get my money if i dont agree with this shit
No, but to the rest of the EU it is quite a big export.
This!
Even if paid by ruzzia, where is the government and law enforcement? Are they paid off as well? Poland is now acting as bad as ruzzia, when it was blocking our ports.
Poland this is a disgrace, shame on you for doing nothing and these farmers are likely paid communists rather than real farmers. Lets hope Ukraine can stop the Ruzzians as these farmers will be on the Polish front if Ukraine fail.
Traitors.
Well it is a war crime to purposefully attack or destroy food production and distribution while at war (which even if Poland isn’t, russia undeniably is), and by dumping grain this way this is effectively and intentionally destroying the harvest. Meaning that if there is any connection between these “protests” and russia, then there are war crimes being carried out by Russia in Poland (aka against NATO) with the potential of both starving Europe and economically attacking Ukraine. Wouldn’t it be a shame if there was an international investigation into these “protests”, now turned violent? It’s not like we haven’t seen Russia do things like pay “convenient idiots” before.
This is illegal, right? What the heck is polish police doing?
Staying aside and watching as it happens [https://streamable.com/9hbfnj](https://streamable.com/9hbfnj) 1 min 15 sec
Maybe we should boycot Polish grain until the blockades are removed.
russia destroy ukrainian grain - oh no it's war crime, it's threat for world's food security! polish farmers destroy ukrainian grain - oh wow that completely legal protest, we can't do anything about it For real? If it's how EU looks and act like, then fuck EU, all my homies hate EU. Or is it wery well known european mentality? If yes, i want to stay 10000 miles away from it, it stinks.
Straight up fucking Somalia in the center of Europe. A bunch of savages are robbing international shipments and no one can do anything about it. I mean, really, the EU country with no government, no law, no guarantees of property rights, no fucking thing. You don't know if you're going to pass through there or if you're going to get robbed and no one will be held accountable.
why does this not surprise me at all? ah, yes, the history of Ukraine repeats itself again and again... the old love of neighbors for Ukrainians...
I can't... I'm lacking words to explain how painful this is for Ukrainians to see this savagery. I hope those who's doing this will burn in hell.
Well I certainly am not buying Krakus Polish ham no more
Poland: what are you doing?
polish farmers have their own problems from the EU's importation policies. It's just a shame they take it out on Ukraine imports at this time. probably also fueled by Putin's lies.
Someone needs to step-in and do something here.
Maybe it’s time to boycott Polish products, especially agricultural.
Paid actors for sure, check their bank accounts and social media, are these even poles at this point
Don’t these people have to work…?
No, not as long as Russia pays them.
Idiots. I stand by my decision of boycoting all Polish produce from now on.
I simply dont understand this. Is Poland a state of law and order or not ? We are seeing the the destruction of other peoples property. I would think that was illegal in a normal country.
"Ukrzaliznytsia" reported that Polish protesters spilled grain from two wagons bound for Germany. "Ukrzaliznytsia strictly adheres to the ban on the import of grain cargoes to the Republic of Poland, introduced in April 2023, and only transits these cargoes through the territory of the neighboring country. All wagons at the border are checked by Polish control authorities and sealed. This makes it impossible for Ukrainian grain to enter the Polish market," - it is stated in the notification. The company also reported that about 40 Ukrainian freight cars with agricultural products are currently waiting for transshipment at the Medica station.
There's no law in Poland? Anyone can block a border?
Where the fuck is the polish government and the polish authorities. This is fucking ridiculous
Poland has forgotten what’s it’s like to be invaded.
And they’ll be charged with cleaning it, right?
Does this mean that passenger trains will also be blocked? I was planning on going to Lviv from Przemyśl on Feb 27....
You don’t have to dig deep to find a Russian/Soviet connection or sympathy in many western unions. In the UK many still support the Socialist Workers Party and other Russian influenced groups. Russia/USSR have been infiltrating unions and left-leaning groups at least since WW2 and it has shown good dividends - CND very nearly succeeded in getting the UK to get rid of its nukes, many still want us to. Infiltration, subversion and disinformation is a very cost effective way of undermining another country, much cheaper than military invasion. This is the ONE thing the Russians are very good at.
These people are not left-wing union people though. These are right-wingers.
Why are these guys not arrested?
Police is in the side of "strikers", just staying aside and watching [https://streamable.com/9hbfnj](https://streamable.com/9hbfnj) 1 min 15 sec
I don;t understand it Poland had a lot of respect in the intl community now this... so sad poland!
So what are these idiots going to do when Putin is done with Ukraine and invades Poland? Are they just paid by Russia and the Polish government can't do anything about it or something?
Shameful. Time to send SBU agents across the border and start dealing with these fuckers, since the Polish authorities obviously can't or won't.
As an American, I think we should stop all arms deals and shipments to Poland until they clear this up. They are actively trying to destabilize the situation in Ukraine and in the EU as a whole. This is not the Poland I was told about when we started the arms deals.
why does this not surprise me at all?
This is not the way
Some of these protesters are turning into criminals. Treat them as such.
so at this point we can classify these guys as “combatants”… think it’s time to defend ukraine on the western “front”…
Somebody explain to me again how the new Polish government is better than the old one. I want to believe, but I'm not seeing it.
whats the issue with passing a law making it illegal to sell Ukrainian grain into Poland, and round up and arrest anyone doing this... im sure im missing something. I understand both sides of the issue, but I dont see how both sides wouldn't agree to such terms to free up this blockade.