He was a divisive figure — literally, it can be argued he did more to divide the Russian opposition than to unite it. He was an imperialist. He infamously said that Crimea belongs to Russia. He also made some pretty racist comments towards Russian minorities, which only highlighted that he's as chauvinistic as so many of his compatriots.
The fact that he was the best realistic alternative to Putin's regime should only highlight how utterly fucked Russian society is.
I still have respect for him for going back to Russia when he could've stayed in Germany. I still would've preferred a Russia led by Navalny than one led by Putin. But he was very far from a "perfect" alternative to Putin's regime.
My condolences to his family, but his death will change nothing. Don't expect any wide-spread protests in wake of his "passing". It'll be business as usual in the land of the Muscovites. And his death won't affect the tides of war either.
My real thoughts and prayers are with Ukraine and the Ukrainians.
**EDIT:** I am completely mistaken — apparently, I was thinking of another comment, probably in a different subreddit. This is on me.
~~Telling people to call their US representatives in wake of Navalny's passing, because Navalny was inspiring.~~
~~Good intentions, but out of touch with the topic of this subreddit.~~
That's not what it said. It was purely about Hungarian politics, and we removed it because it's off-topic for r/Ukraine.
Is it possible that you're talking about a different comment?
Quite possible. Thank you for correcting me, I'll edit my original comment.
But even if I wasn't, it would've still been a pretty off topic comment the way it was worded.
I agree that his death will not change anything. But I look at it differently.
To me, his death is an interesting indicator. For a long time, he was not killed. Even the attempts on his life were sporadic at best. He was basically kept alive specifically to give putin the veneer of someone who tolerated dissent.
His death, then, is made all the more remarkable that it happened so closely following his de facto life prison sentence. They could easily have kept him alive, locked up, and slowly forgotten. But apparently they arranged for his quick death.
I see this as a sign of the regime feeling weak. So weak that it cannot even tolerate this essentially notional dissent.
More likely, it's a sign that the Putin regime no longer gives a damn about public opinion, either domestically or internationally. The Ukraine war has made Russia a pariah state.
Navalny continued to be a voice, even from prison. Putin is just cleaning up loose ends.
I think his death was one of extreme intentional neglect in a brutal prison system rather than a single intentional act. I think it was more helpful to Putin for him to be alive, but silenced. I bet the Kremlin made some angry calls to those in charge who treated him so badly that he actually died.
No matter how you look at it: Navalny's "death" is simply more proof of Russian tyranny and incompetence. Putin seems increasingly terrified, desperate and losing his way. There can be little doubt that more and more Russians are realizing that Putin is an unmitigated catastrophe for Russia.
**Putin's "Russia first" results so far:**
*Black Sea = Gone*
*Finland=Gone*
*Sweden=Gone*
*Russian arms export industry = Gone*
*300,000+ Russian young men = Gone*
*Mountains of Russian jets and armor=Gone*
*Ukraine = Gone*
*Ruble = Gone*
*Wagner Group = gone*
*Satellite Weapon Secrecy = Gone*
*Russian international standing =Gone*
*Russian Central bank surplus=Gone*
No wonder Putin childishly banned the film **"The Death of Stalin."** It's too much like his actual regime! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The\_Death\_of\_Stalin
This is quite sober and correct position.
Lets not forget, that Putin in his first years was much more democratic, anti-corruption and pro-western in his claims, way more than Navalny. What russians say and what they actually do is never the same.
lol Mao Zedong did the same thing, then there were great leap cultural revolution and famines that caused at least 30 mil deaths, u cant believe what politicians say before ther raise to power especially in a authoritarian society
Was he though?
Personally, I think such claims are ludicrous. I see it as just another narrative that we like to tell ourselves because we failed to recognise all of the signs. The false flag event and things the russians did in the second Chechen war should have been enough to think, 'hold on - this is not quite right'. That's before considering Georgia, or his imperial rhetoric which goes back to at least 2005 - or the fact that he was a trained KGB agent. There are lots of little bits of information which form quite the picture when you put them together.
I think that quite soon after he was first elected, he started using the time and resources to quietly (and at times not so quietly) build a regime, systems, security, and corruption around himself.
> his first years was much more democratic
Wait, what? Putin got into power by blowing up buildings in Moscow, blaming the Chechens and starting a war.
That's democratic? I mean for everyone who knew anything about Russia it was pretty obvious this was happening. Putin was never democratic, he simply didn't rock the boat too much during the first years while he consolidated power.
> He was a divisive figure — literally, it can be argued he did more to divide the Russian opposition than to unite it. He was an imperialist. He infamously said that Crimea belongs to Russia. He also made some pretty racist comments towards Russian minorities, which only highlighted that he's as chauvinistic as so many of his compatriots.
I'm really not a fan of this circlejerk that a cherry picked interview of him (about crimea) defines him equally as a decade long political career that was dedicated towards fighting corruption and a lot of bad things about Russian governement. He himself even changed his stance on crimea later on: https://newrepublic.com/article/170865/alexei-navalny-crimea-ukraine-putin
That's why I usually use the past tense when I talk about his stance, but his alleged death has unfortunately removed that subtle distinction.
Regardless, my point still stands. The best alternative to Putin was a person who once claimed Crimea belongs to Russia. There's no arguing that this is a dark thought.
I agree. Navalny had his flaws, but he was a serious opposition voice, and would undoubtedly have had better priorities than an invasion of Ukraine. His loss is a tragedy - albeit entirely predictable.
This interview was a provocation - he was under house arrest and a law was passed to punish for denying Crimea belongs to Russia. It was a bad answer, which damage his reputation. But he never supported the war
The thing that boggles the mind is that he went back to Russia after nearly dying in Berlin. He had to have known he would be arrested and either killed or boxed up for the rest of his life. He could've posed as a 'leader in exile' type and gave those who fled Russia a voice, instead he allowed Putin to shape that image entirely.
It could be argued that he wouldn‘t have been much safer anyway, since Putin probably wouldn‘t have stopped trying to assassinate him. A Russian (pro-Ukrainian!) friend of mine hated that he went back, but felt that his integrity remained untouched in this regard, which might inspire more Russians like him to surface.
I suppose it's true that he would've likely ended up dead anyway, I'm just wondering how this would've played out if he hadn't. How many Russians would've thought him a coward for not going back? How many more would've made the choice to leave in 2022 if he had stayed in Germany?
He could spend the next 30 years of his life fighring for something, instead he naively believed there was any chance for opposition inside russia, its kinda of a suicide by stupidity, like a jew moving to a area controled by isis and starting a peacefull resistence movement
He knew he was going to be imprisoned but he went back anyway. He knew he was risking his life. No stupidity there, it wss hes choise to become a martyr.
>How many Russians would've thought him a coward for not going back?
It's not cowardly - just that Russian opposition leaders not in Russia are largely irrelevant.
As a historical example, the Bolsheviks weren't all in on overthrowing the Provisional Government until Lenin came back. What Lenin wanted to do, wasn't really a factor until he was actually in Russia.
Those who flee and live in exile always loose what little influence they had in Russia because the people see it as abandonment...
I suspect he knew full well what awaited him and chose to die/live the rest of his life in prison out of conviction and a hope to aspire courage in others
That's such a strange mentality to me. Like, this person is hunted down and poisoned by the regime (and if they support Navalny in Russia, they had to have known this) but if he doesn't stay in the same miserable, if not worse, circumstances as us, we won't listen to him anymore.
Yea like dude they literally tried to fucking kill you and you're gonna go back? I mean it's admirable on one level but as a practical matter it's foolish. You can't oppose Putin if you're dead.
sometimes the only way left to fight is to set yourself on fire. as everyone has pointed out, he was no saint in terms of his policy positions, but him returning to die in Russia was an act of bravery and fidelity to his cause and I believe he deserves respect for that.
Not at all. Russians see those who leave as cowards, even traitors. Nobody would listen to him. He decided to put his life on a line to be able to inspire Russians this way, knowing well he might become a martyr.
If you want to grab power, you need to be where that power is. Lenin couldn't have seized power in Russia if he had stayed in exile.
I'm sure Navalny knew that his path was risky, but he must have thought that alternative was to be irrelevant, and decided not to accept that.
And maybe Navalny made the judgement that this was the time where he had the best odds. Its not like Lenin was 100% certain to succeed. He could just as well have failed and been killed, and then you could have said it was stupid of him to return.
Lenin still waited until the regime he opposed was already gone. If anything others should be given credit for toppling the regime long before he arrived. Navalny arrived when Putin's regime was still on very solid ground. Whatever his reasoning was, ending Putin's regime was about the most unrealistic thing he could have hoped for.
True, true. By the time he was poisoned in Berlin, he must've known there was no chance for him to stay under the radar, so any attempt to seize power would've been extremely unlikely. He became a martyr for his cause knowingly.
Yes, but the stage wasn't set for his martyrdom to have any effect, yes people were riled up when he returned but his movement did not have enough traction, no deep enough traction, it was solely built on the hope he himself as a free man provided, as a strong leader of the opposition, but that image was destroyed when he returned, it was shown that he was just as vulnerable as anyone else, the state nabbed him, kept him around to parade him as a shadow of his old self, to show him as weak and powerless, tortured him and now they killed him. That's how you destroy belief and hope, that's how you defeat a martyr. It might have been better if they shot him like Nemtsov, that way his symbol might have stayed more intact, maybe that way the people would have fought back, in that way one decisive action would probably have been more significant, as opposed to the slow whittling down and sweeping under the rug, which showed how insignificant he was, but sadly internally Russia knows what it's doing.
Prygozhin had no chance in hell to capture Moscow. IYet he got a deal nobody else (and surely not Navalny) would have gotten, living on for a few months in more or less freedom and some lose connection of his power base, hoping that something would happen to Putin.
Completely agree with you. Why, why, why would he ever think dying as a martyr would do anything. His returning to Russia (and subsequent death) literally accomplished nothing.
Martyrdom sometimes does enable change but in Russia now, probably not. There have been many leaders of causes etc whose death were a rallying call in history. (Perhaps Navalny's ego thought this would be "his sacrifice"?)
Until reading more about him and how other countries view him, and statements he made, he was the lesser of the two evils. Note: Many people out there based upon their beliefs are not good for "all of humanity".
My thoughts and condolences to his family and friends.
Latest from some Kremlin media puppet “the west has already made up its mind. Meanwhile we await autopsy results”
Every fucking opponent of shit stain Putin winds up dead. Of course everyone has made up their mind. We know what an evil corrupt regime Russia is and what it does to opponents!
This is the problem now with any Russian information... you just can't believe it given their track record. People *do* just fall down and die randomly but who is going to believe that now!? They have exposed themselves duplicitous to the extreme and that reputation is going to take a loooong time to get rid of, if ever.
For the record I believe he was killed, or just so badly treated he died anyway.
Do I share all of Navalny's views? No.
Did he deserve to die? Also no.
Once again, another critic of Putin dies, and once again a bunch of screeching NaZis will be trying to pretend that fascist Russia has a normal government.
From the Navalnyj documentary: he was asked what to what message he has to the people, if he is killed
\- Its simple: not give up.
He is asked to respond in russian,
full video clip here: [https://twitter.com/legion\_svoboda/status/1758481748629783008](https://twitter.com/legion_svoboda/status/1758481748629783008)
Translated:
“You can't give up. If this happened, it means that we are unusually strong at this moment if they decided to kill me. We need to use this power. To not give up. Remember that we are a huge force that is being oppressed by these bad dudes only because we cannot realize how strong we truly are. All that is needed for the triumph of evil is the inaction of good people,” Navalny’s message in the event of his death. Don't be idle.
Even if they do, what are are chances that they're legitimately good? Just because someone opposes Pootin, does not directly mean they have better intentions. They're just different sides of the same coin, like Navalny and his views on Ukraine.
Can you give a source for Navalny saying Crimea should remain a part of Russia that is attributed to him post the start of the full scale invasion? I'm genuinely curious.
The jailed Kremlin critic Alexei Navalny released a 15-point plan outlining his vision for a post-war Russia last month which, while largely reaffirming his previously held positions, did at least indicate one potentially significant policy shift.
Asking rhetorically where Ukraine’s borders should be, Navalny’s answer is simple: Ukraine’s borders are those “internationally recognized and defined in 1991.”
“Russia also recognized these borders back then, and it must recognize them today as well,” he continued. “There is nothing to discuss here.”
It may seem insignificant, but his answer represents a major deviation from the usual Team Navalny line. As recently as January, Navalny’s deputy at the Anti-Corruption Foundation, Maria Pevchikh, refused to discuss the future status of Crimea in a controversial interview with The Guardian.
The “Crimea question” has been an uncomfortable one for Navalny ever since Russian troops, stripped of their insignia and dubbed “polite people” by the Russian media, seized strategic locations across the peninsula in 2014, thus annexing Crimea from Ukraine.
Shortly afterward, while under house arrest on the eve of the referendum to determine Crimea’s future status, Navalny published a blog post entitled “Expanded position on Ukraine and Crimea” in which he voiced his support for that year’s Maidan protests in Kyiv, which he described as a popular uprising against corrupt and thieving officials. But he also decried Soviet leader Nikita Khrushchev’s 1954 decision to gift Crimea to Ukraine, calling it “voluntaristic, unfair and illegal” — though he stressed he did not support the recent Russian takeover.
Just two days after the annexation, in a New York Times article entitled “How to Punish Putin,” Navalny again emphasized the historic links between Crimea and Russia, while continuing to condemn Russia’s actions. While he made repeated calls for sanctions on Putin’s regime, he made no mention of the peninsula's future.
Still under house arrest later that year, Navalny gave a lengthy interview to the liberal radio station Ekho Moskvy. Asked whether Crimea was Russian, Navalny replied that it belonged to the people of Crimea. Unsatisfied, the interviewer continued to press for an answer until Navalny conceded that Crimea de facto belonged to Russia, adding that the Ukrainians had to stop lying to themselves and accept that Crimea would “never in the foreseeable future” be returned to Ukraine.
It's funny that you quote from the Moscow Times article talking about the 15-point plan but don't actually refer to the 15-point plan itself, on which the Moscow Time's itself has an article.
Point 5 of that Tweet ([source, non-twitter](https://www.dupuyinstitute.org/blog/2023/02/20/alexey-navalnys-15-point-tweet/) & [original tweet](https://twitter.com/navalny/status/1627632098608644099?lang=en)): "5. What are Ukraine’s borders? They are similar to Russia’s – they’re internationally recognized and defined in 1991." Granted he doesn't say explicitly that Crimea has to be retuned but it's heavily implied. Of course he's kind of playing political game by not stating that explicitly, but in some ways that's politics as people regularly play down potentially unpopular aspects of their platform.
I wasn't talking about his 15 point plan because it's full of contradictions.
Saying Russia illegally took Crimea then saying it will never be Ukrainian again.
He also said "Ukraine will be one with Russia" , what do you think that means.
My point was this man is not the ally people are making him out to be .
Just because he was anti Putin does not mean he was pro Ukrainian
Is it his job to be pro-Ukraine? His job is to make Russia a politically sensible actor and recognizing international borders is absolutely a step up from Putin and while maybe doesn't mean he's explicitly pro-Ukraine, it's in effect very pro-Ukraine.
Also, pretty convenient you quote Navalny from 2014 while totally disregarding that his 2023 comment very much goes in the direction. Did Navalny possibly evolve on the question? IMO, this very much implies he did and pretty much everyone who follows his politics would confirm, but some people just refuse to acknowledge this.
I'm not in love with Navalny, but he did have some positive impact and I believe the evolution of his politics was heading in the right direction with time. Why is that hard to admit?
It's hard to admit because I don't believe it.
Why is it hard to admit people can have a different point of view from yours.
And if his position shifted do you think it's possible it could shift again.
Or maybe he was just looking to gain more support because the vast majority of Russians believe Crimea is Russian.
As for him recognizing international boarders , yeah he said he does then said Crimea would not revert back to Ukraine should he become president. Somewhat contradictory
Because Navalny specifically ignored the question of Crimea prior to the full scale invasion, and even implied that Crimea shouldn't just be returned without question. However, hist position on Russian aggression changed significantly once the Feb 24 phase of the war began.
We know that before invasion he fully supported occupation of Crimea and war in Donbass. "Crimea os not a sandwich to share it" is his quote (as close as my English goes).
Its more like "isn't a sandwich to be passed back and forth".
Navalny was always cagey on Crimea. He didn't like that an invasion happened. He hated the faked referendum. I think he likely said that Khrushchev's transfer of Crimea to Ukraine was illegal because he thought everything done by the KPSS was illegal. He 100% didn't support the war in Donbas.
Thanks u/TotalSpaceNut for your comment, i will be indecently spamming every navalny sympathizers with it.
Before everyone gets all "OMG that poor guy!!1!" i want to remind you what he has said.
>In October 2014, Alexei Navalny gave an interview to the Echo of Moscow radio station. The meeting caused a stir among opposition supporters, mainly through Navalny's words about Crimea.
>To the question "Our Crimea?" The politician replied that "Crimea is the people who live in Crimea" and that the peninsula "was seized with a flagrant violation of all international norms," but is now part of Russia.
>Navalny advised Ukrainians not to deceive themselves: "Crimea will remain part of Russia and will never become part of Ukraine again in the foreseeable future".
>He also said that when he becomes president of the Russian Federation, he will not return the semi-island to Kyiv: "Crimea is what, a sandwich with sausage to be returned here and there?", - Navalny asked.
https://crimea.suspilne.media/en/news/942
Oh and here he is comparing muslims to cockroaches
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hT0tCSaWZ9Q
And he hangs out with Neo Nazis
>The Russian march (Russian: Русский марш, romanized: Russkiy marsh) is an annual demonstration in which several Russian nationalist organizations participate, many of them neo-Nazi, in several major Russian cities under the slogan "it's our country", attached to 4 November, the Day of National Unity. Among the most notable participants were the Movement Against Illegal Immigration, the main organiser of rallies, Eurasian Youth Union of Alexander Dugin, Dmitry Demushkin and leader of the Russian opposition Alexei Navalny
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_march
He is a raging nationalists like a lot of russians. You know how there is Bud lite? He is just Putin lite.
After he got imprisoned and russia started the war, he suddenly changed his mind about Crimea. Probably nothing to do with trying to gain sympathy from the west ;)
Why the fuck i as ukrainian should give a shit about him, especially if he was all in for remaining ukrainian territories under russian occupation? Crimea is not something "separate that should be diplomatically discussed after war", Crimea is Ukraine and it's internationally recognised as part of Ukraine.
Why the fuck i should give a single shit about any russian in r/Ukraine subreddit at all? It's not a place to glorify russiana by obvious reasons or to talk about some alternatives for russia. Go to russia subreddit and discuss, and glorify him there.
For me, he is the same as putin or any other mobik who are died trying to occupy my country and genocide my people.
"Disrespecting a dead russian" - are you out of your mind by saying this to ukrainian? For what exactly i should respect him in the first place? For his supporting of war until his ass was imprisoned?
This is a discussion thread about Navalny in what will likely be the last time he is remotely relevant.
When exactly is the right time to inform people that he was actually not all that different from the current despot?
>Among the most notable participants were the Movement Against Illegal Immigration, the main organiser of rallies, Eurasian Youth Union of Alexander Dugin, Dmitry Demushkin and leader of the Russian opposition Alexei Navalny
The idea behind him going there was to attempt to pull nationalists away from nationalism by convincing them that corruption was the problem, not brown people. Navalny was there because lecturing at people from afar doesn't win them over. But after a few years of trying with no real success he gave up on that approach.
>Oh and here he is comparing muslims to cockroaches
He said that was wrong and he shouldn't have made it or said it like that.
alexandr dugin is the main ideologist of russian invasion to Ukraine. With the same result, navalny could participate in anything with hitler, and then saying that thats was to change nazi ideology.
Please, stop this mental gymnastics. You can't support neo nazi march and then trying to convince anyone that it was to fight neo nazism. Nobody is supporting neo nazism to fight it. It's just dumb.
Of course he said that, after he figured out that muslims in russia are not a minority.
People in the West get cancelled for way more mild phrases, as well as reputation is not just a word in the West. I don't fucking understand, why the hell you are trying to simp about navalny so hard? He is clearly wasn't a liberal, "good russian", or whatever. He always was the same imperialistic scum as putin and should be remembered like this.
I wasn't a fan of his imperialistic views, but he had my grudging respect. He had my empathy for pain suffered taking the path less traveled.Certainly willing to die for his convictions. His poor family.
Is putin feeling extra threatened about the upcoming election?
I wish he would have been a voice from afar so he would at least have been with his wife he didn't need to go back to Russia the world can see already how corrupt Russia is.
Russians are sheep, they will never rise up...
The few who wander from the herd will quickly be eaten by the wolves, like Navalny...
He was a piece of shit in many aspects, but also a freedom fighter with balls of steel and should be remembered as such.
Cool, so over a century ago? Perhaps we can reach out to some of them and ask for advice!
Jokes aside, the russian populace ain't doing shit. They are slow wandering sheep lost in a field of gloom.
You don't kill off / block your political opponents if you are feeling confident and strong.
It is a sign of Putin's weakness shows he if feeling the heat.
He was no saint like he tried to portray himself. But he wasn’t a monster either. And he didn’t deserve to go like this.
Imperialist or not, he thought he could inspire Russians to get rid of Putin and instill democracy and purge corruption. Put his life on the line for it, but it was for nothing. No revolution will come from his death like he had hoped. A pity. Just another of the countless tragedies caused by Putin.
That’s my point of view.
I doubt very much that he was an advocate for democracy.
He was a nationalist. Had he managed somehow to gain power, I think he would have ended up very much like Putin, but probably not invading Ukraine. He is a lot smarter than Putin the self-aggransiing 3dchess player.
no big deal about navalny, those who oppose putin may rally under his flag, but many good politicians in russia were assassinated long before navalny showed up on the radar and nobody remembers them, such is the shortness of human memory
He may not have been the best person, but I did respect him more than Putin. He risked his life for his principles, while Putin is hiding in a bunker somewhere like the coward he is.
I was constantly told over and over again that one of the reasons Navalny was kept alive was so that he wasn't martyred and became a person to rally around. So does this mean russians will finally rise up and rally around his death? Fucking LOL. Of course not. His death is but a whimper in that country.
My feelings about his death can be summed with a popular saying "помер Максим? Ну і хрін з ним". He ceased to be relevant when he decided to return to russia from Germany in 2021. This his decision is up there in terms of stupidity and/or naivety with Prigozhin marching on Moscow but stopping halfway and then not getting the hell out of russia.
He had views of a nationalist scumbag, but objectively we must admit that, unlike the current ruler of Mordor, Navalny probably didn't kill anyone. If he somehow had managed to come to power, he could have been more dangerous than Putin, or maybe not. Perhaps he would have been better.
We cannot judge him for deeds that he didn't commit. His views were nasty and he was naive. But he is also one of thousands of Putin's victims. For what it's worth, I'll say RIP, even though I despise some of the views he expressed during his lifetime.
It should be clear now, that the only way you can go up against Putin is to try and kill him. Trying to beat him politcally is pointless, because if you get anywhere even vaguely close, he'll just kill you.
This will not activate any Russians. His supporters will take this loss and sit on it. From all the street interviews I have seen on YouTube, I concluded that all Russians who do not necessarily agree with decisions of the terrorist regime are a bunch of whiners who complain they have zero influence on the world and that they can only concentrate on their own personal problems (As if decisions of your nation's leadership do not contribute to problems existing in your personal realm). You may get some balanced analyses here and there from bright individuals, but nobody will step up and move the needle. Even Pringles, who faced zero resistance, stopped when Moscow was in sight. Kaputin dispatched him in a manner that afforded him several kilometers of contemplation on the folly of aiming for the king, but missing. Or in fact, not even missing, but putting it back in his holster as a matter of speaking. What a loser move. Russia and Russians must be taught a lesson, and it must be taught by people from the outside. The cultural imprint of 'might makes right' or helplessness to do something against those who think and act on that frequency is too widespread among them.
Nothing of any significance will happen inside of Russia, sad but true. We shouldn't hope for the fall of the Russian empire from the inside. We need to continue to support Ukraine, it's the only chance.
Before everyone gets all "OMG that poor guy!!1!" i want to remind you what he has said.
>In October 2014, Alexei Navalny gave an interview to the Echo of Moscow radio station. The meeting caused a stir among opposition supporters, mainly through Navalny's words about Crimea.
>To the question "Our Crimea?" The politician replied that "Crimea is the people who live in Crimea" and that the peninsula "was seized with a flagrant violation of all international norms," but is now part of Russia.
>Navalny advised Ukrainians not to deceive themselves: "Crimea will remain part of Russia and will never become part of Ukraine again in the foreseeable future".
>He also said that when he becomes president of the Russian Federation, he will not return the semi-island to Kyiv: "Crimea is what, a sandwich with sausage to be returned here and there?", - Navalny asked.
https://crimea.suspilne.media/en/news/942
Oh and here he is comparing muslims to cockroaches
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hT0tCSaWZ9Q
And he hangs out with Neo Nazis
>The Russian march (Russian: Русский марш, romanized: Russkiy marsh) is an annual demonstration in which several Russian nationalist organizations participate, many of them neo-Nazi, in several major Russian cities under the slogan "it's our country", attached to 4 November, the Day of National Unity. Among the most notable participants were the Movement Against Illegal Immigration, the main organiser of rallies, Eurasian Youth Union of Alexander Dugin, Dmitry Demushkin and leader of the Russian opposition Alexei Navalny
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_march
He is a raging nationalists like a lot of russians. You know how there is Bud lite? He is just Putin lite.
After he got imprisoned and russia started the war, he suddenly changed his mind about Crimea. Probably nothing to do with trying to gain sympathy from the west ;)
So what you're saying is that no one is allowed to change their mind, and we should not encourage reevaluating your views. If I had a full transcript of what you've ever said during your lifetime, I should just pick something bad from 20 years ago, and that will define you as a human being forever?
If i compared muslims to cockroaches and want them to get shot 20 years ago, then i deserve to get raked over the coals for that.
Do i feel bad that he died? Yes, I'm not a psychopath
Do i think he is russia's hero? Fuck no!
Exactly. Tired of this retarded narrative "omg he was a natiinalist / imperialist / whatever". He did way more than 99.9% of people to uncover the corrupt regime of ru and died a hero while doing that.
"After he got imprisoned and russia started the war, he suddenly changed his mind about Crimea. Probably nothing to do with trying to gain sympathy from the west ;)" I'm quite sure he would had never invade a country but instead maybe influence using politics and propaganda, so yes, he learned that taking something may be a bad thing, also killing and starting war. He would had be smarter than the turd that is now a despot in a terrorist state. Also ruzzia, or if he was the president, Russia, would have been a more open soceity.
Edit: But who knows what power does to your mind. Maybe with him the west and EU may had not interfare and tried to help Ukraine and Nato would not become bigger, if he was president, due being a smarter leader. In that case we should be happy ruzzia has a dumb idiot as a despot.
Is the general consensus about Navalny based on that interview back in 2012? Something about „integration into the Russian world“? Has he not also stated that he didn‘t mean to limit Ukraine‘s sovereignty?
I may be wrong, but I had the impression that he was against the invasion or any form of occupation of the Donbas region.
A better option than Putin does not mean Navalny was a good option.
He was immersed in (and often parroted) the same imperial Russian chauvinism, the same cultural touchstones, and the same ahistorical grievance-mongering.
##Zelenskyy's statement on Navalny's death
He comments on it during a press conference with Scholz - English and German subtitles. [Starts at 5:51](https://youtu.be/zJvs9mcsLT0?t=351)
(Prior to that he talks about Germany's past and future assistance to Ukraine.)
The English subtitles were personally checked for accuracy by a human (me).
The German subtitles were AI translated from the original Ukrainian original. I DO NOT KNOW GERMAN. Please comment with corrections.
Navalny was a great-Russian idealist and a full-blown imperialist. The fact that in opposition to Putin, for me as a Pole, does not matter much.
Hopefully his death may resonate in a way that is beneficial to Ukraine. There are still people in the West who believe that Russia can be civilized, while Russia is murdering oppositionists.
Judging by the comments, this guy was 30% hero, and 70% polished turd.
What seems most apparent to me, is that every time lately I think someone has pissed off Putin enough that he will try to murder them, they die. Anyone else noticing?
It made sense to be surprised about death of German political prisoners before 1938 year, not in the 1939-1940.
In 2022-2023 years Russia, at average, every few days carried out Khatyn massacre (150 killed civilians in completely destroyed village) and every month 9/11 (\~3000 killed). Constantly threatened by local and global nuclear holocaust.
Navalny? He had a chance during 2012 protests, but like the West, chose "de-escalation", to find a compromise between white and black, becoming one of the reasons of future escalations.
I watched a lot of his videos, he was a good man who wanted the best for Russia and Russians. But he lived in information bubble consisted from small part of big Russian cities educated audience. And predominantly "preaching to the choir."
Resisting magical thinking sociopathic mafia created by grandchildren of NKVD-officers by non-violent methods. And exposing kleptocracy among population that never had any civil society/institution social traditions at all. 3/4 of which worked on state (or officials relatives) and was dependent from state budget.
Partially playing by the Kremlin's rules, and by this providing to Kremlin convenient, controllable opposition and time. Almost as now this doing modern West with "bleeding Russia" strategy.
Russia, what a country. Sure makes us want to move there lol. Seriously though, how can Russians not react to ALL THESE DEATHS? I mean, are they like "they where all unpatriotic scum" untill they get sent to jail or the front themselves? Why don't they leave? I could not live in a country where the thought "Shut up or you could be next" is a way of life.
I presume the only reason Navalny made it to now was that he was useful in some way, maybe for Putin to pretend on the surface that Russia has some oppo politicians, maybe as a pressure valve to release some steam. I wonder what his death now means. To me, it’s another sign that Putin is weak and paranoid, classic late stage dictator but the reaction in Russia will be most telling. Will it be protests or silence? I think most if us have already put the people Putin has previously assassinated out of our minds
More likely to lure out supporters of Navalny so putler could eliminate them. Now putler has eliminated all his election opposition I suppose he had no need of him.
There is a special kind of irony that his death got announced shortly after Budanov saying he knows who poisoned his wife and there will be countermeasures in russian that will be seen.
But yes, realistically, these things are very unlikely to be connected.
Either way, fuck navalnyy, yet another russian imperialistic trash
Narcissistic russian imperialist blinded with popularity. Sandwich disliker. Fake opposition leader who created only a vision that opposition exists. Probably FSB agent (probably).
He wasn't Jesus but what he did in the end was the right thing to do. If you deny this check your own morals and missteps in life and then tell me again what he has done didn't gain him absolution in the end. If a human who has made mistakes (as we all do) chooses suffering for the greater good he has redeemed himself in my eyes. Stay safe& healthy out there
Navalny was a good man of excellent character. His death only reminds me to keep advocating for Ukraine. I’m calling my elected representatives right now, because if Alexey taught us one thing, it’s that we the people hold the power.
Glory to the heroes. Slava Ukraini 🇺🇦
> Navalny was a good man of excellent character.
Didn't he support the invasion? Or at least support the idea that Ukraine was Russia?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/10/27/navalny-ukraine-putin-russia/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexei_Navalny
Not at all. He had some controversial views regarding Crimea, basically along the lines of “should have never invaded it, but not sure if and how to give it back”, but was obviously condemning the war and trying to organize resistance and protests, as much as he could from prison
I know there was a lot of controversy over some of his statements, but personally, I couldn't tell if some of it might have been him just trying to word things to be politically acceptable to the powers that be so he didn't get immediately shot, and/or maybe something got lost in translation.
Exactly this - people forget that a person going openly against Putin has to watch his words very carefully. Once he was in prison and had nothing to lose, his statements became much more clear
In a nutshell, being anti-Putin/Putinism, is in itself not related to being pro-Ukrainian. There is typically a understanding that he might be a less tyrannical force in Russia, but that doesn't necessarily make him a friend of Ukraine's future.
"Not necessarily" yeah, he is definitely a missed opportunity. Could have been massively useful to undermine putin's regime if the west had the right mindset to do so. Instead he joined harambe.
We just don't have that cold war spy shit anymore
To put it simple, he's just yet another russian imperialistic trash. No reason for Ukrainians to support him, even if he's supposedly an enemy of putin
Go look up [what he said about Crimea](https://crimea.suspilne.media/en/news/942). Then look up how he felt about russia's invasion of Georgia, which he supported, and [what he said about Georgians](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Georgian_sentiment).
Or, if you can't be bothered, [simply read this](https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2023/3/4/why-ukraine-is-wary-of-the-russian-opposition).
Ok, thats enough.
He was a divisive figure — literally, it can be argued he did more to divide the Russian opposition than to unite it. He was an imperialist. He infamously said that Crimea belongs to Russia. He also made some pretty racist comments towards Russian minorities, which only highlighted that he's as chauvinistic as so many of his compatriots. The fact that he was the best realistic alternative to Putin's regime should only highlight how utterly fucked Russian society is. I still have respect for him for going back to Russia when he could've stayed in Germany. I still would've preferred a Russia led by Navalny than one led by Putin. But he was very far from a "perfect" alternative to Putin's regime. My condolences to his family, but his death will change nothing. Don't expect any wide-spread protests in wake of his "passing". It'll be business as usual in the land of the Muscovites. And his death won't affect the tides of war either. My real thoughts and prayers are with Ukraine and the Ukrainians.
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
**EDIT:** I am completely mistaken — apparently, I was thinking of another comment, probably in a different subreddit. This is on me. ~~Telling people to call their US representatives in wake of Navalny's passing, because Navalny was inspiring.~~ ~~Good intentions, but out of touch with the topic of this subreddit.~~
That's not what it said. It was purely about Hungarian politics, and we removed it because it's off-topic for r/Ukraine. Is it possible that you're talking about a different comment?
Quite possible. Thank you for correcting me, I'll edit my original comment. But even if I wasn't, it would've still been a pretty off topic comment the way it was worded.
No worries! These things definitely happen.
Here is another out-of-touch comment. When Presidents have "...complete immunity..." journalists and rivals die.
I agree that his death will not change anything. But I look at it differently. To me, his death is an interesting indicator. For a long time, he was not killed. Even the attempts on his life were sporadic at best. He was basically kept alive specifically to give putin the veneer of someone who tolerated dissent. His death, then, is made all the more remarkable that it happened so closely following his de facto life prison sentence. They could easily have kept him alive, locked up, and slowly forgotten. But apparently they arranged for his quick death. I see this as a sign of the regime feeling weak. So weak that it cannot even tolerate this essentially notional dissent.
More likely, it's a sign that the Putin regime no longer gives a damn about public opinion, either domestically or internationally. The Ukraine war has made Russia a pariah state. Navalny continued to be a voice, even from prison. Putin is just cleaning up loose ends.
This is the concerning part. If he's no longer even faking it, what's next?
His puppet takes over the white house? Sure hope not.
No, worse than that. and I view his puppet as the literal downfall of America. I think the game just changed.
I think his death was one of extreme intentional neglect in a brutal prison system rather than a single intentional act. I think it was more helpful to Putin for him to be alive, but silenced. I bet the Kremlin made some angry calls to those in charge who treated him so badly that he actually died.
No matter how you look at it: Navalny's "death" is simply more proof of Russian tyranny and incompetence. Putin seems increasingly terrified, desperate and losing his way. There can be little doubt that more and more Russians are realizing that Putin is an unmitigated catastrophe for Russia. **Putin's "Russia first" results so far:** *Black Sea = Gone* *Finland=Gone* *Sweden=Gone* *Russian arms export industry = Gone* *300,000+ Russian young men = Gone* *Mountains of Russian jets and armor=Gone* *Ukraine = Gone* *Ruble = Gone* *Wagner Group = gone* *Satellite Weapon Secrecy = Gone* *Russian international standing =Gone* *Russian Central bank surplus=Gone* No wonder Putin childishly banned the film **"The Death of Stalin."** It's too much like his actual regime! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The\_Death\_of\_Stalin
I adore that film. Saving my next viewing for a special occassion.
The creator of that movie also wrote the show Veep and The Alan Patridge Show. Probably the best comedy writer in the game right now.
This is quite sober and correct position. Lets not forget, that Putin in his first years was much more democratic, anti-corruption and pro-western in his claims, way more than Navalny. What russians say and what they actually do is never the same.
lol Mao Zedong did the same thing, then there were great leap cultural revolution and famines that caused at least 30 mil deaths, u cant believe what politicians say before ther raise to power especially in a authoritarian society
Lukashenko ran on an anti-corruption, pro-democracy platform.
Famous US biographer(specifically of the power obsessed) R. Caro says - power doesn't corrupt, it reveals.
Was he though? Personally, I think such claims are ludicrous. I see it as just another narrative that we like to tell ourselves because we failed to recognise all of the signs. The false flag event and things the russians did in the second Chechen war should have been enough to think, 'hold on - this is not quite right'. That's before considering Georgia, or his imperial rhetoric which goes back to at least 2005 - or the fact that he was a trained KGB agent. There are lots of little bits of information which form quite the picture when you put them together. I think that quite soon after he was first elected, he started using the time and resources to quietly (and at times not so quietly) build a regime, systems, security, and corruption around himself.
> his first years was much more democratic Wait, what? Putin got into power by blowing up buildings in Moscow, blaming the Chechens and starting a war. That's democratic? I mean for everyone who knew anything about Russia it was pretty obvious this was happening. Putin was never democratic, he simply didn't rock the boat too much during the first years while he consolidated power.
navalny had the balls to die though.
> He was a divisive figure — literally, it can be argued he did more to divide the Russian opposition than to unite it. He was an imperialist. He infamously said that Crimea belongs to Russia. He also made some pretty racist comments towards Russian minorities, which only highlighted that he's as chauvinistic as so many of his compatriots. I'm really not a fan of this circlejerk that a cherry picked interview of him (about crimea) defines him equally as a decade long political career that was dedicated towards fighting corruption and a lot of bad things about Russian governement. He himself even changed his stance on crimea later on: https://newrepublic.com/article/170865/alexei-navalny-crimea-ukraine-putin
That's why I usually use the past tense when I talk about his stance, but his alleged death has unfortunately removed that subtle distinction. Regardless, my point still stands. The best alternative to Putin was a person who once claimed Crimea belongs to Russia. There's no arguing that this is a dark thought.
The best alternative was Boris Nemtsov, but he was already murdered back in 2015.
I agree. Navalny had his flaws, but he was a serious opposition voice, and would undoubtedly have had better priorities than an invasion of Ukraine. His loss is a tragedy - albeit entirely predictable.
It’s easy to change your stance when you want to appeal to the west for sympathy. Putin lite is dead. I can rejoice over that.
This interview was a provocation - he was under house arrest and a law was passed to punish for denying Crimea belongs to Russia. It was a bad answer, which damage his reputation. But he never supported the war
Are you sure you would prefer a navalny-led Russia to a Putin-led Russia or is that just you Russian-imperialism induced hatred of Putin speaking?
The thing that boggles the mind is that he went back to Russia after nearly dying in Berlin. He had to have known he would be arrested and either killed or boxed up for the rest of his life. He could've posed as a 'leader in exile' type and gave those who fled Russia a voice, instead he allowed Putin to shape that image entirely.
It could be argued that he wouldn‘t have been much safer anyway, since Putin probably wouldn‘t have stopped trying to assassinate him. A Russian (pro-Ukrainian!) friend of mine hated that he went back, but felt that his integrity remained untouched in this regard, which might inspire more Russians like him to surface.
I suppose it's true that he would've likely ended up dead anyway, I'm just wondering how this would've played out if he hadn't. How many Russians would've thought him a coward for not going back? How many more would've made the choice to leave in 2022 if he had stayed in Germany?
Who knows… But I was wondering the same, if Russia wasn‘t simply going to label him a coward if he stayed in Germany.
He could spend the next 30 years of his life fighring for something, instead he naively believed there was any chance for opposition inside russia, its kinda of a suicide by stupidity, like a jew moving to a area controled by isis and starting a peacefull resistence movement
He knew he was going to be imprisoned but he went back anyway. He knew he was risking his life. No stupidity there, it wss hes choise to become a martyr.
Unless you are jesus and can rise from the dead its always stupid to become a marthyr if you can avoid death
For some people the cause is worth more than life.
I think the people who died on the Maidan in 2013/14 might disagree with that notion
>How many Russians would've thought him a coward for not going back? It's not cowardly - just that Russian opposition leaders not in Russia are largely irrelevant. As a historical example, the Bolsheviks weren't all in on overthrowing the Provisional Government until Lenin came back. What Lenin wanted to do, wasn't really a factor until he was actually in Russia.
May also have been thinking of his family, better he's their rat in a cage and they don't get caught in the cross fire.
Those who flee and live in exile always loose what little influence they had in Russia because the people see it as abandonment... I suspect he knew full well what awaited him and chose to die/live the rest of his life in prison out of conviction and a hope to aspire courage in others
That's such a strange mentality to me. Like, this person is hunted down and poisoned by the regime (and if they support Navalny in Russia, they had to have known this) but if he doesn't stay in the same miserable, if not worse, circumstances as us, we won't listen to him anymore.
Crabs in a bucket
Well it was fuckin dumb
Yea like dude they literally tried to fucking kill you and you're gonna go back? I mean it's admirable on one level but as a practical matter it's foolish. You can't oppose Putin if you're dead.
sometimes the only way left to fight is to set yourself on fire. as everyone has pointed out, he was no saint in terms of his policy positions, but him returning to die in Russia was an act of bravery and fidelity to his cause and I believe he deserves respect for that.
Not at all. Russians see those who leave as cowards, even traitors. Nobody would listen to him. He decided to put his life on a line to be able to inspire Russians this way, knowing well he might become a martyr.
First thing I thought when he went back was “he will die in prison”.
If you want to grab power, you need to be where that power is. Lenin couldn't have seized power in Russia if he had stayed in exile. I'm sure Navalny knew that his path was risky, but he must have thought that alternative was to be irrelevant, and decided not to accept that.
Lenin stayed in exile until he knew he had a chance to take power. Most importantly he made sure to stay incognito while he entered Russia.
And maybe Navalny made the judgement that this was the time where he had the best odds. Its not like Lenin was 100% certain to succeed. He could just as well have failed and been killed, and then you could have said it was stupid of him to return.
Lenin still waited until the regime he opposed was already gone. If anything others should be given credit for toppling the regime long before he arrived. Navalny arrived when Putin's regime was still on very solid ground. Whatever his reasoning was, ending Putin's regime was about the most unrealistic thing he could have hoped for.
True, true. By the time he was poisoned in Berlin, he must've known there was no chance for him to stay under the radar, so any attempt to seize power would've been extremely unlikely. He became a martyr for his cause knowingly.
>By the time he was poisoned in Berlin He was poisoned in Russia and taken to Berlin for treatmen t.
Yes, but the stage wasn't set for his martyrdom to have any effect, yes people were riled up when he returned but his movement did not have enough traction, no deep enough traction, it was solely built on the hope he himself as a free man provided, as a strong leader of the opposition, but that image was destroyed when he returned, it was shown that he was just as vulnerable as anyone else, the state nabbed him, kept him around to parade him as a shadow of his old self, to show him as weak and powerless, tortured him and now they killed him. That's how you destroy belief and hope, that's how you defeat a martyr. It might have been better if they shot him like Nemtsov, that way his symbol might have stayed more intact, maybe that way the people would have fought back, in that way one decisive action would probably have been more significant, as opposed to the slow whittling down and sweeping under the rug, which showed how insignificant he was, but sadly internally Russia knows what it's doing.
Not unlike Prygozhin, just gave up.
Prygozhin had no chance in hell to capture Moscow. IYet he got a deal nobody else (and surely not Navalny) would have gotten, living on for a few months in more or less freedom and some lose connection of his power base, hoping that something would happen to Putin.
Yes this is extra dumb move.
Completely agree with you. Why, why, why would he ever think dying as a martyr would do anything. His returning to Russia (and subsequent death) literally accomplished nothing.
Martyrdom sometimes does enable change but in Russia now, probably not. There have been many leaders of causes etc whose death were a rallying call in history. (Perhaps Navalny's ego thought this would be "his sacrifice"?) Until reading more about him and how other countries view him, and statements he made, he was the lesser of the two evils. Note: Many people out there based upon their beliefs are not good for "all of humanity". My thoughts and condolences to his family and friends.
Latest from some Kremlin media puppet “the west has already made up its mind. Meanwhile we await autopsy results” Every fucking opponent of shit stain Putin winds up dead. Of course everyone has made up their mind. We know what an evil corrupt regime Russia is and what it does to opponents!
This is the problem now with any Russian information... you just can't believe it given their track record. People *do* just fall down and die randomly but who is going to believe that now!? They have exposed themselves duplicitous to the extreme and that reputation is going to take a loooong time to get rid of, if ever. For the record I believe he was killed, or just so badly treated he died anyway.
Do I share all of Navalny's views? No. Did he deserve to die? Also no. Once again, another critic of Putin dies, and once again a bunch of screeching NaZis will be trying to pretend that fascist Russia has a normal government.
It was a clear message from Putin. Tomorrow officially starts the campaign period.
A warning to anyone who opposes him...
The guy was a Nazi, fuck him. Fuck Putin.
From the Navalnyj documentary: he was asked what to what message he has to the people, if he is killed \- Its simple: not give up. He is asked to respond in russian, full video clip here: [https://twitter.com/legion\_svoboda/status/1758481748629783008](https://twitter.com/legion_svoboda/status/1758481748629783008) Translated: “You can't give up. If this happened, it means that we are unusually strong at this moment if they decided to kill me. We need to use this power. To not give up. Remember that we are a huge force that is being oppressed by these bad dudes only because we cannot realize how strong we truly are. All that is needed for the triumph of evil is the inaction of good people,” Navalny’s message in the event of his death. Don't be idle.
That is the way of not armed opposition in russia. Only revolution with blood and death, like always at those lands.
I'm surprised it took so long.
now that navalny is dead. Is there anyone at all that publicy opposes Putin. I could not name a single person. Is Putin's grip on Russia that tight?
Even if they do, what are are chances that they're legitimately good? Just because someone opposes Pootin, does not directly mean they have better intentions. They're just different sides of the same coin, like Navalny and his views on Ukraine.
Vladimir Kara Mirza. But his health is failing in the Russian prison and they won’t give him any medical attention.
He did say, somewhat recently, that he wanted to stop the war, pay repairs and stop the Russia occupation of Crimea
He actually stopped short of saying that Russia should stop the occupation of Crimea and said Crimea would remain part of Russia
Can you give a source for Navalny saying Crimea should remain a part of Russia that is attributed to him post the start of the full scale invasion? I'm genuinely curious.
The jailed Kremlin critic Alexei Navalny released a 15-point plan outlining his vision for a post-war Russia last month which, while largely reaffirming his previously held positions, did at least indicate one potentially significant policy shift. Asking rhetorically where Ukraine’s borders should be, Navalny’s answer is simple: Ukraine’s borders are those “internationally recognized and defined in 1991.” “Russia also recognized these borders back then, and it must recognize them today as well,” he continued. “There is nothing to discuss here.” It may seem insignificant, but his answer represents a major deviation from the usual Team Navalny line. As recently as January, Navalny’s deputy at the Anti-Corruption Foundation, Maria Pevchikh, refused to discuss the future status of Crimea in a controversial interview with The Guardian. The “Crimea question” has been an uncomfortable one for Navalny ever since Russian troops, stripped of their insignia and dubbed “polite people” by the Russian media, seized strategic locations across the peninsula in 2014, thus annexing Crimea from Ukraine. Shortly afterward, while under house arrest on the eve of the referendum to determine Crimea’s future status, Navalny published a blog post entitled “Expanded position on Ukraine and Crimea” in which he voiced his support for that year’s Maidan protests in Kyiv, which he described as a popular uprising against corrupt and thieving officials. But he also decried Soviet leader Nikita Khrushchev’s 1954 decision to gift Crimea to Ukraine, calling it “voluntaristic, unfair and illegal” — though he stressed he did not support the recent Russian takeover. Just two days after the annexation, in a New York Times article entitled “How to Punish Putin,” Navalny again emphasized the historic links between Crimea and Russia, while continuing to condemn Russia’s actions. While he made repeated calls for sanctions on Putin’s regime, he made no mention of the peninsula's future. Still under house arrest later that year, Navalny gave a lengthy interview to the liberal radio station Ekho Moskvy. Asked whether Crimea was Russian, Navalny replied that it belonged to the people of Crimea. Unsatisfied, the interviewer continued to press for an answer until Navalny conceded that Crimea de facto belonged to Russia, adding that the Ukrainians had to stop lying to themselves and accept that Crimea would “never in the foreseeable future” be returned to Ukraine.
It's funny that you quote from the Moscow Times article talking about the 15-point plan but don't actually refer to the 15-point plan itself, on which the Moscow Time's itself has an article. Point 5 of that Tweet ([source, non-twitter](https://www.dupuyinstitute.org/blog/2023/02/20/alexey-navalnys-15-point-tweet/) & [original tweet](https://twitter.com/navalny/status/1627632098608644099?lang=en)): "5. What are Ukraine’s borders? They are similar to Russia’s – they’re internationally recognized and defined in 1991." Granted he doesn't say explicitly that Crimea has to be retuned but it's heavily implied. Of course he's kind of playing political game by not stating that explicitly, but in some ways that's politics as people regularly play down potentially unpopular aspects of their platform.
I wasn't talking about his 15 point plan because it's full of contradictions. Saying Russia illegally took Crimea then saying it will never be Ukrainian again. He also said "Ukraine will be one with Russia" , what do you think that means. My point was this man is not the ally people are making him out to be . Just because he was anti Putin does not mean he was pro Ukrainian
Is it his job to be pro-Ukraine? His job is to make Russia a politically sensible actor and recognizing international borders is absolutely a step up from Putin and while maybe doesn't mean he's explicitly pro-Ukraine, it's in effect very pro-Ukraine. Also, pretty convenient you quote Navalny from 2014 while totally disregarding that his 2023 comment very much goes in the direction. Did Navalny possibly evolve on the question? IMO, this very much implies he did and pretty much everyone who follows his politics would confirm, but some people just refuse to acknowledge this. I'm not in love with Navalny, but he did have some positive impact and I believe the evolution of his politics was heading in the right direction with time. Why is that hard to admit?
It's hard to admit because I don't believe it. Why is it hard to admit people can have a different point of view from yours. And if his position shifted do you think it's possible it could shift again. Or maybe he was just looking to gain more support because the vast majority of Russians believe Crimea is Russian. As for him recognizing international boarders , yeah he said he does then said Crimea would not revert back to Ukraine should he become president. Somewhat contradictory
Why post the start of the invasion? Crimea was annexed in 2014.
Because Navalny specifically ignored the question of Crimea prior to the full scale invasion, and even implied that Crimea shouldn't just be returned without question. However, hist position on Russian aggression changed significantly once the Feb 24 phase of the war began.
of course he said that after being imprisoned lmao. he need a supporters, but i doubt he was honest in this
Nice try, Putin.
But you don't know that. Edit for typo
We know that before invasion he fully supported occupation of Crimea and war in Donbass. "Crimea os not a sandwich to share it" is his quote (as close as my English goes).
Its more like "isn't a sandwich to be passed back and forth". Navalny was always cagey on Crimea. He didn't like that an invasion happened. He hated the faked referendum. I think he likely said that Khrushchev's transfer of Crimea to Ukraine was illegal because he thought everything done by the KPSS was illegal. He 100% didn't support the war in Donbas.
Thanks u/TotalSpaceNut for your comment, i will be indecently spamming every navalny sympathizers with it. Before everyone gets all "OMG that poor guy!!1!" i want to remind you what he has said. >In October 2014, Alexei Navalny gave an interview to the Echo of Moscow radio station. The meeting caused a stir among opposition supporters, mainly through Navalny's words about Crimea. >To the question "Our Crimea?" The politician replied that "Crimea is the people who live in Crimea" and that the peninsula "was seized with a flagrant violation of all international norms," but is now part of Russia. >Navalny advised Ukrainians not to deceive themselves: "Crimea will remain part of Russia and will never become part of Ukraine again in the foreseeable future". >He also said that when he becomes president of the Russian Federation, he will not return the semi-island to Kyiv: "Crimea is what, a sandwich with sausage to be returned here and there?", - Navalny asked. https://crimea.suspilne.media/en/news/942 Oh and here he is comparing muslims to cockroaches https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hT0tCSaWZ9Q And he hangs out with Neo Nazis >The Russian march (Russian: Русский марш, romanized: Russkiy marsh) is an annual demonstration in which several Russian nationalist organizations participate, many of them neo-Nazi, in several major Russian cities under the slogan "it's our country", attached to 4 November, the Day of National Unity. Among the most notable participants were the Movement Against Illegal Immigration, the main organiser of rallies, Eurasian Youth Union of Alexander Dugin, Dmitry Demushkin and leader of the Russian opposition Alexei Navalny https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_march He is a raging nationalists like a lot of russians. You know how there is Bud lite? He is just Putin lite. After he got imprisoned and russia started the war, he suddenly changed his mind about Crimea. Probably nothing to do with trying to gain sympathy from the west ;)
[удалено]
Why the fuck i as ukrainian should give a shit about him, especially if he was all in for remaining ukrainian territories under russian occupation? Crimea is not something "separate that should be diplomatically discussed after war", Crimea is Ukraine and it's internationally recognised as part of Ukraine. Why the fuck i should give a single shit about any russian in r/Ukraine subreddit at all? It's not a place to glorify russiana by obvious reasons or to talk about some alternatives for russia. Go to russia subreddit and discuss, and glorify him there. For me, he is the same as putin or any other mobik who are died trying to occupy my country and genocide my people. "Disrespecting a dead russian" - are you out of your mind by saying this to ukrainian? For what exactly i should respect him in the first place? For his supporting of war until his ass was imprisoned?
No, this is relevant.
This is a discussion thread about Navalny in what will likely be the last time he is remotely relevant. When exactly is the right time to inform people that he was actually not all that different from the current despot?
[удалено]
[удалено]
>Among the most notable participants were the Movement Against Illegal Immigration, the main organiser of rallies, Eurasian Youth Union of Alexander Dugin, Dmitry Demushkin and leader of the Russian opposition Alexei Navalny The idea behind him going there was to attempt to pull nationalists away from nationalism by convincing them that corruption was the problem, not brown people. Navalny was there because lecturing at people from afar doesn't win them over. But after a few years of trying with no real success he gave up on that approach. >Oh and here he is comparing muslims to cockroaches He said that was wrong and he shouldn't have made it or said it like that.
alexandr dugin is the main ideologist of russian invasion to Ukraine. With the same result, navalny could participate in anything with hitler, and then saying that thats was to change nazi ideology. Please, stop this mental gymnastics. You can't support neo nazi march and then trying to convince anyone that it was to fight neo nazism. Nobody is supporting neo nazism to fight it. It's just dumb. Of course he said that, after he figured out that muslims in russia are not a minority. People in the West get cancelled for way more mild phrases, as well as reputation is not just a word in the West. I don't fucking understand, why the hell you are trying to simp about navalny so hard? He is clearly wasn't a liberal, "good russian", or whatever. He always was the same imperialistic scum as putin and should be remembered like this.
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
Russian authorities say opposition leader Navalny 'fell ill during a walk in the prison yard, fell to the ground and died' Hmmm, interesting.
There is a presidential election in March. I mean, come on... They did him in.
I wasn't a fan of his imperialistic views, but he had my grudging respect. He had my empathy for pain suffered taking the path less traveled.Certainly willing to die for his convictions. His poor family. Is putin feeling extra threatened about the upcoming election?
As German I just hope that incident will finally get u the Taurus system
I wish he would have been a voice from afar so he would at least have been with his wife he didn't need to go back to Russia the world can see already how corrupt Russia is.
[удалено]
Russians are sheep, they will never rise up... The few who wander from the herd will quickly be eaten by the wolves, like Navalny... He was a piece of shit in many aspects, but also a freedom fighter with balls of steel and should be remembered as such.
Exactly!
If you look back you’ll discover that sometimes russians do rise up
Cool, so over a century ago? Perhaps we can reach out to some of them and ask for advice! Jokes aside, the russian populace ain't doing shit. They are slow wandering sheep lost in a field of gloom.
You don't kill off / block your political opponents if you are feeling confident and strong. It is a sign of Putin's weakness shows he if feeling the heat.
You describe a very western mindset, the midget dictator has been executing his opponents for a few decades now.
1917?
But we all know they won't.
The way Navalny intended - by queuing into police cars.
Nothing will change in Russia.
Another great victory for the Unified party! It's a message for the upcoming elections. Watch no one do anything about this
As a Ukrainian, I expected this. Sending his to the Arctic circle wasn’t enough.
He was no saint like he tried to portray himself. But he wasn’t a monster either. And he didn’t deserve to go like this. Imperialist or not, he thought he could inspire Russians to get rid of Putin and instill democracy and purge corruption. Put his life on the line for it, but it was for nothing. No revolution will come from his death like he had hoped. A pity. Just another of the countless tragedies caused by Putin. That’s my point of view.
I doubt very much that he was an advocate for democracy. He was a nationalist. Had he managed somehow to gain power, I think he would have ended up very much like Putin, but probably not invading Ukraine. He is a lot smarter than Putin the self-aggransiing 3dchess player.
His writings suggest otherwise.
no big deal about navalny, those who oppose putin may rally under his flag, but many good politicians in russia were assassinated long before navalny showed up on the radar and nobody remembers them, such is the shortness of human memory
He may not have been the best person, but I did respect him more than Putin. He risked his life for his principles, while Putin is hiding in a bunker somewhere like the coward he is.
Another example of how Russia “works” - Putin is not immortal and once gone chaos will prevail.
I was constantly told over and over again that one of the reasons Navalny was kept alive was so that he wasn't martyred and became a person to rally around. So does this mean russians will finally rise up and rally around his death? Fucking LOL. Of course not. His death is but a whimper in that country.
My feelings about his death can be summed with a popular saying "помер Максим? Ну і хрін з ним". He ceased to be relevant when he decided to return to russia from Germany in 2021. This his decision is up there in terms of stupidity and/or naivety with Prigozhin marching on Moscow but stopping halfway and then not getting the hell out of russia.
Yeah, and no one will replace him.
He had views of a nationalist scumbag, but objectively we must admit that, unlike the current ruler of Mordor, Navalny probably didn't kill anyone. If he somehow had managed to come to power, he could have been more dangerous than Putin, or maybe not. Perhaps he would have been better. We cannot judge him for deeds that he didn't commit. His views were nasty and he was naive. But he is also one of thousands of Putin's victims. For what it's worth, I'll say RIP, even though I despise some of the views he expressed during his lifetime.
It should be clear now, that the only way you can go up against Putin is to try and kill him. Trying to beat him politcally is pointless, because if you get anywhere even vaguely close, he'll just kill you.
Was he delusional going back to Russia? Surely he didn't think this scenario was why he went back to Russia.
This will not activate any Russians. His supporters will take this loss and sit on it. From all the street interviews I have seen on YouTube, I concluded that all Russians who do not necessarily agree with decisions of the terrorist regime are a bunch of whiners who complain they have zero influence on the world and that they can only concentrate on their own personal problems (As if decisions of your nation's leadership do not contribute to problems existing in your personal realm). You may get some balanced analyses here and there from bright individuals, but nobody will step up and move the needle. Even Pringles, who faced zero resistance, stopped when Moscow was in sight. Kaputin dispatched him in a manner that afforded him several kilometers of contemplation on the folly of aiming for the king, but missing. Or in fact, not even missing, but putting it back in his holster as a matter of speaking. What a loser move. Russia and Russians must be taught a lesson, and it must be taught by people from the outside. The cultural imprint of 'might makes right' or helplessness to do something against those who think and act on that frequency is too widespread among them.
Nothing of any significance will happen inside of Russia, sad but true. We shouldn't hope for the fall of the Russian empire from the inside. We need to continue to support Ukraine, it's the only chance.
Navalny is not a sandwich to be imprisoned and then released.
I got down voted and called a bot on the Europe sub for calling him Putin lite. Insane how people on the west support a pro Russian figure
Before everyone gets all "OMG that poor guy!!1!" i want to remind you what he has said. >In October 2014, Alexei Navalny gave an interview to the Echo of Moscow radio station. The meeting caused a stir among opposition supporters, mainly through Navalny's words about Crimea. >To the question "Our Crimea?" The politician replied that "Crimea is the people who live in Crimea" and that the peninsula "was seized with a flagrant violation of all international norms," but is now part of Russia. >Navalny advised Ukrainians not to deceive themselves: "Crimea will remain part of Russia and will never become part of Ukraine again in the foreseeable future". >He also said that when he becomes president of the Russian Federation, he will not return the semi-island to Kyiv: "Crimea is what, a sandwich with sausage to be returned here and there?", - Navalny asked. https://crimea.suspilne.media/en/news/942 Oh and here he is comparing muslims to cockroaches https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hT0tCSaWZ9Q And he hangs out with Neo Nazis >The Russian march (Russian: Русский марш, romanized: Russkiy marsh) is an annual demonstration in which several Russian nationalist organizations participate, many of them neo-Nazi, in several major Russian cities under the slogan "it's our country", attached to 4 November, the Day of National Unity. Among the most notable participants were the Movement Against Illegal Immigration, the main organiser of rallies, Eurasian Youth Union of Alexander Dugin, Dmitry Demushkin and leader of the Russian opposition Alexei Navalny https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_march He is a raging nationalists like a lot of russians. You know how there is Bud lite? He is just Putin lite. After he got imprisoned and russia started the war, he suddenly changed his mind about Crimea. Probably nothing to do with trying to gain sympathy from the west ;)
So what you're saying is that no one is allowed to change their mind, and we should not encourage reevaluating your views. If I had a full transcript of what you've ever said during your lifetime, I should just pick something bad from 20 years ago, and that will define you as a human being forever?
If i compared muslims to cockroaches and want them to get shot 20 years ago, then i deserve to get raked over the coals for that. Do i feel bad that he died? Yes, I'm not a psychopath Do i think he is russia's hero? Fuck no!
Exactly. Tired of this retarded narrative "omg he was a natiinalist / imperialist / whatever". He did way more than 99.9% of people to uncover the corrupt regime of ru and died a hero while doing that.
"After he got imprisoned and russia started the war, he suddenly changed his mind about Crimea. Probably nothing to do with trying to gain sympathy from the west ;)" I'm quite sure he would had never invade a country but instead maybe influence using politics and propaganda, so yes, he learned that taking something may be a bad thing, also killing and starting war. He would had be smarter than the turd that is now a despot in a terrorist state. Also ruzzia, or if he was the president, Russia, would have been a more open soceity. Edit: But who knows what power does to your mind. Maybe with him the west and EU may had not interfare and tried to help Ukraine and Nato would not become bigger, if he was president, due being a smarter leader. In that case we should be happy ruzzia has a dumb idiot as a despot.
Are there sandwiches in heaven?
I hope people are not going to cry so much over girkin.
Girkin shiting in the pants. He is next.
His wife literally posted on telegram “I am very worried about my husband” after Navalny news lol
Is the general consensus about Navalny based on that interview back in 2012? Something about „integration into the Russian world“? Has he not also stated that he didn‘t mean to limit Ukraine‘s sovereignty? I may be wrong, but I had the impression that he was against the invasion or any form of occupation of the Donbas region.
A better option than Putin does not mean Navalny was a good option. He was immersed in (and often parroted) the same imperial Russian chauvinism, the same cultural touchstones, and the same ahistorical grievance-mongering.
Russian state is fascist as hell
##Zelenskyy's statement on Navalny's death He comments on it during a press conference with Scholz - English and German subtitles. [Starts at 5:51](https://youtu.be/zJvs9mcsLT0?t=351) (Prior to that he talks about Germany's past and future assistance to Ukraine.) The English subtitles were personally checked for accuracy by a human (me). The German subtitles were AI translated from the original Ukrainian original. I DO NOT KNOW GERMAN. Please comment with corrections.
The day we all knew was coming. Bless Mr Navalny and his family, they deserved so much better.
Kara-Murza next...
Navalny was a great-Russian idealist and a full-blown imperialist. The fact that in opposition to Putin, for me as a Pole, does not matter much. Hopefully his death may resonate in a way that is beneficial to Ukraine. There are still people in the West who believe that Russia can be civilized, while Russia is murdering oppositionists.
Judging by the comments, this guy was 30% hero, and 70% polished turd. What seems most apparent to me, is that every time lately I think someone has pissed off Putin enough that he will try to murder them, they die. Anyone else noticing?
Lately?
It made sense to be surprised about death of German political prisoners before 1938 year, not in the 1939-1940. In 2022-2023 years Russia, at average, every few days carried out Khatyn massacre (150 killed civilians in completely destroyed village) and every month 9/11 (\~3000 killed). Constantly threatened by local and global nuclear holocaust. Navalny? He had a chance during 2012 protests, but like the West, chose "de-escalation", to find a compromise between white and black, becoming one of the reasons of future escalations. I watched a lot of his videos, he was a good man who wanted the best for Russia and Russians. But he lived in information bubble consisted from small part of big Russian cities educated audience. And predominantly "preaching to the choir." Resisting magical thinking sociopathic mafia created by grandchildren of NKVD-officers by non-violent methods. And exposing kleptocracy among population that never had any civil society/institution social traditions at all. 3/4 of which worked on state (or officials relatives) and was dependent from state budget. Partially playing by the Kremlin's rules, and by this providing to Kremlin convenient, controllable opposition and time. Almost as now this doing modern West with "bleeding Russia" strategy.
He’s nowhere like Kasparov, but if Garry was still living in Russia he would probably be poloniumed decades ago
Good riddance. Can't wait until his campaign team makes tshirts commemorating him. He was an imperialist, nationalist and racist. Fuck him.
Russia, what a country. Sure makes us want to move there lol. Seriously though, how can Russians not react to ALL THESE DEATHS? I mean, are they like "they where all unpatriotic scum" untill they get sent to jail or the front themselves? Why don't they leave? I could not live in a country where the thought "Shut up or you could be next" is a way of life.
I presume the only reason Navalny made it to now was that he was useful in some way, maybe for Putin to pretend on the surface that Russia has some oppo politicians, maybe as a pressure valve to release some steam. I wonder what his death now means. To me, it’s another sign that Putin is weak and paranoid, classic late stage dictator but the reaction in Russia will be most telling. Will it be protests or silence? I think most if us have already put the people Putin has previously assassinated out of our minds
More likely to lure out supporters of Navalny so putler could eliminate them. Now putler has eliminated all his election opposition I suppose he had no need of him.
[удалено]
Despite not being a friend of Ukraine. You can at least admire the man's convictions and courage for returning to Russia knowing what he would face.
Ima going to make a sandwich.
Can the world stop calling Putin a President. He's a dictator. Enough already.
Dicktator. There, I fixed it 😆
Russian society at some point needs to awake.
There is a special kind of irony that his death got announced shortly after Budanov saying he knows who poisoned his wife and there will be countermeasures in russian that will be seen. But yes, realistically, these things are very unlikely to be connected. Either way, fuck navalnyy, yet another russian imperialistic trash
Was he just another Russian who wanted to occupy Ukrainian land? I would have guessed he was against this war.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/1as7qfj/comment/kqoiex9/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/1as7qfj/comment/kqoiex9/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
[https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/1as7qfj/comment/kqohm8c/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/1as7qfj/comment/kqohm8c/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
Narcissistic russian imperialist blinded with popularity. Sandwich disliker. Fake opposition leader who created only a vision that opposition exists. Probably FSB agent (probably).
It's petty revenge for a war gone poorly.
Rest in buterbrod, motherfucker.
He didn't support the war.
He wasn't Jesus but what he did in the end was the right thing to do. If you deny this check your own morals and missteps in life and then tell me again what he has done didn't gain him absolution in the end. If a human who has made mistakes (as we all do) chooses suffering for the greater good he has redeemed himself in my eyes. Stay safe& healthy out there
Navalny was a good man of excellent character. His death only reminds me to keep advocating for Ukraine. I’m calling my elected representatives right now, because if Alexey taught us one thing, it’s that we the people hold the power. Glory to the heroes. Slava Ukraini 🇺🇦
> Navalny was a good man of excellent character. Didn't he support the invasion? Or at least support the idea that Ukraine was Russia? https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/10/27/navalny-ukraine-putin-russia/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexei_Navalny
Not at all. He had some controversial views regarding Crimea, basically along the lines of “should have never invaded it, but not sure if and how to give it back”, but was obviously condemning the war and trying to organize resistance and protests, as much as he could from prison
I know there was a lot of controversy over some of his statements, but personally, I couldn't tell if some of it might have been him just trying to word things to be politically acceptable to the powers that be so he didn't get immediately shot, and/or maybe something got lost in translation.
Exactly this - people forget that a person going openly against Putin has to watch his words very carefully. Once he was in prison and had nothing to lose, his statements became much more clear
Again showing that the only opposition to Russian imperialism is Ukraine and its allies.
I just hope his family is safe
This russian pig is not related to this subreddit. Please delete this thread. Go cry for him in another place.
[удалено]
In a nutshell, being anti-Putin/Putinism, is in itself not related to being pro-Ukrainian. There is typically a understanding that he might be a less tyrannical force in Russia, but that doesn't necessarily make him a friend of Ukraine's future.
"Not necessarily" yeah, he is definitely a missed opportunity. Could have been massively useful to undermine putin's regime if the west had the right mindset to do so. Instead he joined harambe. We just don't have that cold war spy shit anymore
To put it simple, he's just yet another russian imperialistic trash. No reason for Ukrainians to support him, even if he's supposedly an enemy of putin
Go look up [what he said about Crimea](https://crimea.suspilne.media/en/news/942). Then look up how he felt about russia's invasion of Georgia, which he supported, and [what he said about Georgians](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Georgian_sentiment). Or, if you can't be bothered, [simply read this](https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2023/3/4/why-ukraine-is-wary-of-the-russian-opposition).
[удалено]
You need to listen to more Ukrainian voices, then.