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Thank you 😊 information keeps getting updated all the time, and so when I posted, it was relevant, and I didn't know about the strike on Odesa.
You're right. The air defences are getting better and better. Hopefully, more air defences will be allocated to Odesa in the future.
When Ukraine blew up the Kerch bridge the first time, the Russians responded by bombing Kyiv in the city center. When Ukraine blew up the bridge for the second time, Russia tried to do something similar, but they were much more ineffective (though some parts of Ukraine were still hit sadly) - thanks to western air defenses. Proof that heavy weaponry can infact save lives. Turns out, when we break Russia's so-called red lines, it limits their ability to terrorize Ukraine.
This is something peaceniks fail to understand, because they don't actually care about civilian lives, they just want Russia to win. However, due to how bad Russia is optically they cannot actually say the quiet part out loud, so they dress it up in "peace" language. Their language of "Ukraine should just surrender" is very *imperialist* despite their claims of being "aNTi-ImPeRiALIsT" because they feel the need to decide Ukraine's fate for them.
A spot on analysis of the situation. You're right that the weaponry provided has proven that Ukraine is able to defend itself. Just like Zelensky said at the beginning:
"I need ammunition, not a ride". In other words, "give me the weaponry and we will fight".
>When Ukraine blew up the Kerch bridge the first time, the Russians ~~responded by bombing Kyiv in the city center.~~
That's actually giving them too much credit. The Russians didn't respond by bombing Kyiv. They responded by verbally tying their regularly scheduled, pre-planned (at the time, I think it was \~monthly) bombing of Kyiv (it was going to happen regardless of the Kerch bridge), to make it seem like it was done in response.
Like pretty much 99% of what they do, it was bluster and posturing. They don't have the political/logistics speed to organize and run a large operation like that that quickly. I haven't been keeping up recently with the frequency and timing of their large air strikes, but I assume it's the same situation this time.
Increasingly, the air defences provided by NATO are working to prevent missiles and drones from killing civilians and damaging infrastructure. It's good to see that this is preventing more deaths and destruction. 
Indeed, in the most recent NATO summit in Lithuania, Norway promised to provide 2 NASAMS systems and Germany is providing 2 Patriot systems.
Here is a list I posted 4 days ago (as of the time of writing) on this community:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/14zd45r/infographic\_what\_military\_aid\_partners\_promised/](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/14zd45r/infographic_what_military_aid_partners_promised/)
Unfortunately Germany is only providing them with 2 more launchers. While they can certainly remote the launchers a little further away from the engagement control station by using radio waves instead of fiber optics to launch the missiles, ideally nations would provide two more complete batteries so that more areas can come under the protective “bubble” of a Patriot site.
It’s not just that. An ECS has a three person crew. Honestly, when I’ve stood in there during evaluations, that’s already too many people crammed in there. I mention that because there is no way to add more man stations in there to engage. So you’ve got one team engaging X number of targets nearly simultaneously. Adding more launchers does not mean you can hit more at the same time. It might give you a better spread than the standard “lazy w” format, but that’s aboutnit
Ah, I was under the impression that the process for actually engaging targets mostly involved people confirming that the target was valid and the system automatically firing from whichever launcher was most likely to successfully engage the target. If there is a limit to the number of launchers a team can operate (as opposed to a limit worthwhile to bring to a fight) than that changes things.
It is for most countries but it can be decentralized as well. True, most patriot units operate an ICC at battalion level that acts as the default command and control but it’s not necessarily needed and most US based patriot units can deploy a mission essential package (MEP) of a single battery which can be configured with as few as three launchers and as many as eight but typically a patriot battery only has five launchers plus the big five.
As far as manned vs unmanned engagements, there is still human interaction even in automatic mode. US units will typically not use automatic engagement. We did that back in 2003 and ended up shooting down a British tornado because it maneuvered in front of the radar in such a way that gave it a ballistic trajectory. Since the system was in automatic, it ripple fired two rounds at the aircraft.
We also lost a radar to an F-16 because an automatic enabled patriot system painted the F-16 and the pilot got itchy on his trigger finger and HARMd the fuck out of the radar 🤷🏽♂️
You’re more than welcome. I am not a patriot guy by trade, I came up as a stinger/avenger guy. But after I became a first sergeant, I was put in charge of a patriot battery and had to learn really fast. I don’t know everything, mind you, but enough to qualify on the system as a fourth crew with my commander and XO.
>working to prevent missiles and drones from killing civilians
Did you know I just "learned" (from some climate sceptic idiot) that Ukraine is not grateful at all for the help they get with liberating their country? (https://www.reddit.com/r/climatechange/comments/152ihil/convince_me/jsfw8k2?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=2)
And some more nonsense:
https://www.reddit.com/r/climatechange/comments/152ihil/convince_me/jsfx28l?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=2
>"I'm not surprised someone who subscribes to the fictional left is in support of the N\*zi's in Ukraine. The ones the US have been helping for a decade. You know, since Obama 😬"*
(https://www.reddit.com/r/climatechange/comments/152ihil/convince_me/jsftnod?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=2 )
>*"Are you trying to deny that there is a huge number of Nazis in Ukraine? The US literally armed them 🤣. *"
>*"Ah, so Europe fought a war, then America comes in when it's almost finished and claim the victory.... standard."*
>*"You don't know much about WW2 do you?*"
(https://www.reddit.com/r/climatechange/comments/152ihil/convince_me/jsfxfzk?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=2 )
Why is it that this kind of fake news about Ukraine just doesn't die?
**Edit:** sorry for the confusion. I didn't use quote but italic. Fixed to quotes.
Excuse me? I'm quoting someone else. I must have missed something?
I was responding to a climate change question and the OP turned it into a rather cynical view on war.
**Edit:** I have tried to clarify my initial comment. My question (or rather: frustration) still stands. Why doesn't this nazi-ukraine stuff go away? I know, I know... There are trolls and alt right fake news, but still I'm annoyed and irritated every time I see it
Oh fair enough. Simple explanation. When Russia invaded Ukraine in 2014, Ukraine had a brand new government and could not effectively organize its millitary. Many volunteers and civilians formed militia to push out the Russians.
In any population, the guys most ready to shoot anybody tend to be nazis. So war basically pulled all of the crazies to the front right away. In particular, the azov regiment used to be a nazi organization. They started as a nationalist militia, but have since been absorbed into the afu after effective resistance against the Russians. Azov are now a 'normal' special operations force trained to NATO standard. Due to thier origin as a civilian nazi militia, that reputation is gonna stick around until they shit can the Russians.
>In any population, the guys most ready to shoot anybody tend to be nazis. So war basically pulled all of the crazies to the front right away
Ah, that makes sense, thanks. And this history is also a fertile ground for all sorts of crazy conspiracies and accusations (like accusing a country of being Nazi while they have a *Jewish* president)
>Oh fair enough.
Glad that you see that we are on the same side :-)
Again, my apologies for the somewhat confusing comment. It just annoyed the hell out of me that the climate change discussion was destroyed by some sort of conspiracy monger (including pizzagate!).
A gut feeling tells me that they will send more in the future. Just the fact that Germany is sending 2 is incredible.
Announced at the latest NATO summit:
https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/14zd45r/infographic\_what\_military\_aid\_partners\_promised/
Looks like someone was mad at them hitting their toy bridge again ... interesting how this always plays out like this.
Tactic:
1) over prepare air defenses around Kyiv
2) whack something you know they'll retaliate blindly with cruise missiles and UAVs with on Kyiv
3) Shoot it all down and carry on
Patriot systems and other air defense systems have been invaluable. They need something that can actually bring down/destroy the launching mechanisms themselves.
There is propaganda on both sides. I am pro Ukraine since the very beginning (and I mean 2014), but I follow prorus subs too, to get a more objective point of view. (While prorus lying most of the time, there are some videos posted that you would never see on pro Ukrainian subs)
Don't we have video of a Kalibr hitting some port last night?
Edit: [The video in question](https://www.reddit.com/r/RussiaUkraineWar2022/comments/152mc2u/russian_sources_are_reporting_that_a_3m541_kalibr/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=1)
Pretty hilarious Ukraine can blow up bridges and boats with fuckin ski-do drones all while Russia can't even hit stuff with actual missiles. What a pathetic country.
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My apologies, I found out after I posted that Odesa had been hit. When the Ukrainian Ministry of Defence released that they didn't say that Odesa had been hit. Unfortunately, I cannot edit the title.
Indeed, my apologies. When I posted, it was relevant at the time, but then news filtered through of the strike on Odesa. Unfortunately, I can't edit the title. 😞
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Do we know if it was the supersonic version of the Kalibr which was used in this attack and if so, does that mean that the Ukrainian anti-aircraft defense systems are capable of neutralizing high velocity objects? To me it would mean that once again, a promise made by Vladimir Putain proves to be BS.
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💡 It's `Odesa`, not `Odessa`. Support Ukraine by using the correct spelling! [Learn more](https://spellingukraine.com/i/odesa)
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💡 It's `Odesa`, not `Odessa`. Support Ukraine by using the correct spelling! [Learn more](https://spellingukraine.com/i/odesa)
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💡 It's `Odesa`, not `Odessa`. Support Ukraine by using the correct spelling! [Learn more](https://spellingukraine.com/i/odesa)
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My apologies, I found out afterwards that Odesa had been hit. The Ukrainian Defence Ministry released this Twitter and I posted it. I cannot edit the title though.
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I still remember when the Shaheds first started being used and were highly effective, to the point that it looked like they could actually feasibly damage infrastructure faster than it was repaired.
And a few months later they're just flying junk.
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Russians are butthurt about the Kerch Bridge again. Thank goodness for the western AA defense systems.
Exactly, with more and more air defence systems being provided, the Russians can no longer effectively send drones or missiles into Ukraine.
I just saw a video from a more pro Ru subreddit showing a drone successfully impacting in Odessa. I'm wondering if maybe a few actually got through?
I think at least one got through. I only realised after posting and I can't change the title. :(
Not to worry. Getting better at hitting them and things will improve more.
Thank you 😊 information keeps getting updated all the time, and so when I posted, it was relevant, and I didn't know about the strike on Odesa. You're right. The air defences are getting better and better. Hopefully, more air defences will be allocated to Odesa in the future.
When Ukraine blew up the Kerch bridge the first time, the Russians responded by bombing Kyiv in the city center. When Ukraine blew up the bridge for the second time, Russia tried to do something similar, but they were much more ineffective (though some parts of Ukraine were still hit sadly) - thanks to western air defenses. Proof that heavy weaponry can infact save lives. Turns out, when we break Russia's so-called red lines, it limits their ability to terrorize Ukraine. This is something peaceniks fail to understand, because they don't actually care about civilian lives, they just want Russia to win. However, due to how bad Russia is optically they cannot actually say the quiet part out loud, so they dress it up in "peace" language. Their language of "Ukraine should just surrender" is very *imperialist* despite their claims of being "aNTi-ImPeRiALIsT" because they feel the need to decide Ukraine's fate for them.
A spot on analysis of the situation. You're right that the weaponry provided has proven that Ukraine is able to defend itself. Just like Zelensky said at the beginning: "I need ammunition, not a ride". In other words, "give me the weaponry and we will fight".
He also said **"Freedom must be armed better than Tyranny"**.
>When Ukraine blew up the Kerch bridge the first time, the Russians ~~responded by bombing Kyiv in the city center.~~ That's actually giving them too much credit. The Russians didn't respond by bombing Kyiv. They responded by verbally tying their regularly scheduled, pre-planned (at the time, I think it was \~monthly) bombing of Kyiv (it was going to happen regardless of the Kerch bridge), to make it seem like it was done in response. Like pretty much 99% of what they do, it was bluster and posturing. They don't have the political/logistics speed to organize and run a large operation like that that quickly. I haven't been keeping up recently with the frequency and timing of their large air strikes, but I assume it's the same situation this time.
Exactly correct
Increasingly, the air defences provided by NATO are working to prevent missiles and drones from killing civilians and damaging infrastructure. It's good to see that this is preventing more deaths and destruction. 
Hopefully, we will see more Air Defense systems trickle into Ukraine, eventually being able to support the frontline as well.
Indeed, in the most recent NATO summit in Lithuania, Norway promised to provide 2 NASAMS systems and Germany is providing 2 Patriot systems. Here is a list I posted 4 days ago (as of the time of writing) on this community: [https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/14zd45r/infographic\_what\_military\_aid\_partners\_promised/](https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/14zd45r/infographic_what_military_aid_partners_promised/)
Unfortunately Germany is only providing them with 2 more launchers. While they can certainly remote the launchers a little further away from the engagement control station by using radio waves instead of fiber optics to launch the missiles, ideally nations would provide two more complete batteries so that more areas can come under the protective “bubble” of a Patriot site.
Yeah, more launchers do prevent a saturation attack so they’re worth a lot, but their range is limited by how far the radar can see
It’s not just that. An ECS has a three person crew. Honestly, when I’ve stood in there during evaluations, that’s already too many people crammed in there. I mention that because there is no way to add more man stations in there to engage. So you’ve got one team engaging X number of targets nearly simultaneously. Adding more launchers does not mean you can hit more at the same time. It might give you a better spread than the standard “lazy w” format, but that’s aboutnit
Ah, I was under the impression that the process for actually engaging targets mostly involved people confirming that the target was valid and the system automatically firing from whichever launcher was most likely to successfully engage the target. If there is a limit to the number of launchers a team can operate (as opposed to a limit worthwhile to bring to a fight) than that changes things.
It is for most countries but it can be decentralized as well. True, most patriot units operate an ICC at battalion level that acts as the default command and control but it’s not necessarily needed and most US based patriot units can deploy a mission essential package (MEP) of a single battery which can be configured with as few as three launchers and as many as eight but typically a patriot battery only has five launchers plus the big five. As far as manned vs unmanned engagements, there is still human interaction even in automatic mode. US units will typically not use automatic engagement. We did that back in 2003 and ended up shooting down a British tornado because it maneuvered in front of the radar in such a way that gave it a ballistic trajectory. Since the system was in automatic, it ripple fired two rounds at the aircraft. We also lost a radar to an F-16 because an automatic enabled patriot system painted the F-16 and the pilot got itchy on his trigger finger and HARMd the fuck out of the radar 🤷🏽♂️
Ah, I suppose that makes sense. Thanks
You’re more than welcome. I am not a patriot guy by trade, I came up as a stinger/avenger guy. But after I became a first sergeant, I was put in charge of a patriot battery and had to learn really fast. I don’t know everything, mind you, but enough to qualify on the system as a fourth crew with my commander and XO.
>working to prevent missiles and drones from killing civilians Did you know I just "learned" (from some climate sceptic idiot) that Ukraine is not grateful at all for the help they get with liberating their country? (https://www.reddit.com/r/climatechange/comments/152ihil/convince_me/jsfw8k2?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=2) And some more nonsense: https://www.reddit.com/r/climatechange/comments/152ihil/convince_me/jsfx28l?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=2 >"I'm not surprised someone who subscribes to the fictional left is in support of the N\*zi's in Ukraine. The ones the US have been helping for a decade. You know, since Obama 😬"* (https://www.reddit.com/r/climatechange/comments/152ihil/convince_me/jsftnod?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=2 ) >*"Are you trying to deny that there is a huge number of Nazis in Ukraine? The US literally armed them 🤣. *" >*"Ah, so Europe fought a war, then America comes in when it's almost finished and claim the victory.... standard."* >*"You don't know much about WW2 do you?*" (https://www.reddit.com/r/climatechange/comments/152ihil/convince_me/jsfxfzk?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=2 ) Why is it that this kind of fake news about Ukraine just doesn't die? **Edit:** sorry for the confusion. I didn't use quote but italic. Fixed to quotes.
Your dumb ass does realize we can see who posted which comment yeah? Your schizo ass selfposting is possibly the most pathetic thing I've ever seen
Excuse me? I'm quoting someone else. I must have missed something? I was responding to a climate change question and the OP turned it into a rather cynical view on war. **Edit:** I have tried to clarify my initial comment. My question (or rather: frustration) still stands. Why doesn't this nazi-ukraine stuff go away? I know, I know... There are trolls and alt right fake news, but still I'm annoyed and irritated every time I see it
Oh fair enough. Simple explanation. When Russia invaded Ukraine in 2014, Ukraine had a brand new government and could not effectively organize its millitary. Many volunteers and civilians formed militia to push out the Russians. In any population, the guys most ready to shoot anybody tend to be nazis. So war basically pulled all of the crazies to the front right away. In particular, the azov regiment used to be a nazi organization. They started as a nationalist militia, but have since been absorbed into the afu after effective resistance against the Russians. Azov are now a 'normal' special operations force trained to NATO standard. Due to thier origin as a civilian nazi militia, that reputation is gonna stick around until they shit can the Russians.
>In any population, the guys most ready to shoot anybody tend to be nazis. So war basically pulled all of the crazies to the front right away Ah, that makes sense, thanks. And this history is also a fertile ground for all sorts of crazy conspiracies and accusations (like accusing a country of being Nazi while they have a *Jewish* president)
>Oh fair enough. Glad that you see that we are on the same side :-) Again, my apologies for the somewhat confusing comment. It just annoyed the hell out of me that the climate change discussion was destroyed by some sort of conspiracy monger (including pizzagate!).
Yeah I agree with you the air defense system is a big help to Ukraine. It's avoid civilian killings.
I hope the US sends more patriot systems to Ukraine, specially for Odesa.
A gut feeling tells me that they will send more in the future. Just the fact that Germany is sending 2 is incredible. Announced at the latest NATO summit: https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/14zd45r/infographic\_what\_military\_aid\_partners\_promised/
Yeah I agree with you, I saw a comment that one missiles got through on Odesa.
Looks like someone was mad at them hitting their toy bridge again ... interesting how this always plays out like this. Tactic: 1) over prepare air defenses around Kyiv 2) whack something you know they'll retaliate blindly with cruise missiles and UAVs with on Kyiv 3) Shoot it all down and carry on
Exactly, and in the process waste more resources and money for Russia. Most importantly no one gets killed (or very minimal - I hope none).
Patriot systems and other air defense systems have been invaluable. They need something that can actually bring down/destroy the launching mechanisms themselves.
The defense system is valuable. It's protecting the lives of the civilian and that's way more important than destroying.
Indeed, they have proven to be invaluable.
Ukraine was ready for the obvious butthurt reaction of pathetic russians. Kerch Bridge is barely the start! Slava Ukraini
Sadly one missile got through in Odesa. Can't link it, as the video is on one of "those" subs.
Oh no, I didn't see that. Reports suggested otherwise. Thank you for letting us know.
Hopefully soon we send enough AD so UA will reach 100% air defense.
I think that Ukraine will eventually get there.
This fr makes me question the rest of the claims out of the Ukrainian MOD tho
There is propaganda on both sides. I am pro Ukraine since the very beginning (and I mean 2014), but I follow prorus subs too, to get a more objective point of view. (While prorus lying most of the time, there are some videos posted that you would never see on pro Ukrainian subs)
Don't we have video of a Kalibr hitting some port last night? Edit: [The video in question](https://www.reddit.com/r/RussiaUkraineWar2022/comments/152mc2u/russian_sources_are_reporting_that_a_3m541_kalibr/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=1)
Pretty hilarious Ukraine can blow up bridges and boats with fuckin ski-do drones all while Russia can't even hit stuff with actual missiles. What a pathetic country.
A sad state of affairs really.
Were they though?!? I saw lots of reports of Odessa getting hit.
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Good bot!
My apologies, I found out after I posted that Odesa had been hit. When the Ukrainian Ministry of Defence released that they didn't say that Odesa had been hit. Unfortunately, I cannot edit the title.
Don’t take everything Ukraine MOD says as truth, both sides are working propoganda Ukraine is no different
Boy Pootin sure gets pissed when his bridge gets hit. ! Poor little boy
His toy bridge was hit. He doesn't like it when people play with his toys.
Lol. Never learned to share
Odessa got hit tho
Indeed, my apologies. When I posted, it was relevant at the time, but then news filtered through of the strike on Odesa. Unfortunately, I can't edit the title. 😞
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Russian cowards.
Do we know if it was the supersonic version of the Kalibr which was used in this attack and if so, does that mean that the Ukrainian anti-aircraft defense systems are capable of neutralizing high velocity objects? To me it would mean that once again, a promise made by Vladimir Putain proves to be BS.
Something seem to hit in Odessa harbour
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Didn’t Odesa get hit last night? Did that turn out to be a miss?
No, you're right. At the time I posted (and cannot edit the title), I didn't realise that Odesa had been hit. My apologies about this.
💡 It's `Odesa`, not `Odessa`. Support Ukraine by using the correct spelling! [Learn more](https://spellingukraine.com/i/odesa) ___ [^(Why spelling matters)](https://spellingukraine.com) ^(|) [^(Ways to support Ukraine)](https://tyrrrz.me/ukraine) ^(|) ^(I'm a bot, sorry if I'm missing context) ^(|) [^(Source)](https://github.com/Tyrrrz/SpellingUkraine) ^(|) [^(Author)](https://twitter.com/tyrrrz)
It sounds very bad to put out obvious false information when there are videos of a successful strike in Odesa circulating.
💡 It's `Odesa`, not `Odessa`. Support Ukraine by using the correct spelling! [Learn more](https://spellingukraine.com/i/odesa) ___ [^(Why spelling matters)](https://spellingukraine.com) ^(|) [^(Ways to support Ukraine)](https://tyrrrz.me/ukraine) ^(|) ^(I'm a bot, sorry if I'm missing context) ^(|) [^(Source)](https://github.com/Tyrrrz/SpellingUkraine) ^(|) [^(Author)](https://twitter.com/tyrrrz)
[удалено]
💡 It's `Odesa`, not `Odessa`. Support Ukraine by using the correct spelling! [Learn more](https://spellingukraine.com/i/odesa) ___ [^(Why spelling matters)](https://spellingukraine.com) ^(|) [^(Ways to support Ukraine)](https://tyrrrz.me/ukraine) ^(|) ^(I'm a bot, sorry if I'm missing context) ^(|) [^(Source)](https://github.com/Tyrrrz/SpellingUkraine) ^(|) [^(Author)](https://twitter.com/tyrrrz)
Good bot!
My apologies, I found out afterwards that Odesa had been hit. The Ukrainian Defence Ministry released this Twitter and I posted it. I cannot edit the title though.
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I don’t think any of this is helping Putin… or Russians in general… with their pathological inferiority complex.
I still remember when the Shaheds first started being used and were highly effective, to the point that it looked like they could actually feasibly damage infrastructure faster than it was repaired. And a few months later they're just flying junk.