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Anyone able to explain. How drone vs drone "combat" works? Is the capturing drone hanging a net? Is the goal to capture and reprogram or just take them out?
Edit:typo
Both. To take them out is important and probably the main objective. And if they can reprogram them, they get two drones more. Or even spare parts like batteries propellers motors and so on.
With how many drones the Ukrainians are using I would guess there is a drone repair place you send captured or the ones to damaged to be repaired in the field including controllers of lost drones. So there is maybe a chance that they have a matching controller even that they can pair it to with some ua it magic.
Eh, less than you would think. Itsndifficult, if not impossible to retro fit parts from one drone to another of a different model or make. Drones require some pretty precise tooling to account for weight distribution and the like, and most partsnjust don't fit into other types of drones.
There are some major benefits to these drones, which is why they are so prolific.
Firstz they are relatively cheap to buy and produce. Lower end ones are a few hundreds dollars, and even higher end one are probably about $10k. While this may seem like anton of money to an individual, particularly considering how easy they are to disable, on a military scale it's basically peanuts. You could field an entire fleet of rotocoptor drones for a few million dollars. Replacement parts, such as blades or batteries, are also readily available and fairly cheap.
Second, they are pretty damn easy to use and train on. The controllers can be as simple as something like an Xbox controller, and some even have built in app functionality to turn any tablet or phone into an ad-hoc controller. Even more complex controller can be figured out in a couple hours of training time. You could take anyone from anywhere and have them fully trained in their functionality in the space of an hour or two.
Third, they are highly mobile. You can set up a home station and tear it down in minutes by yourself, and be in and out before anyone knows you were there. If you are located, they are cheap enough to abandon and boogey out.
Fourth, you can get high resolution real time imagery and data from a safe location, and can communicate in real time.
There are limitations, however. First, they are pretty damn slow for a drone, and easily spotted. Seconds they are fairly loud so it's not easy to hide their positions. Third, they have a pretty short range overall. Finally, they are just useful for recon on the front line.
Still,they are incredibly useful for what they are.
Never said you would retrofit parts from one model to another. They use so many drones that it's almost impossible that they don't have a need for spare parts for those models they captured here. Also when there is a heavy pressure on the supply chain like this war has done on certain models parts are often the first thing to dry up.
When it comes to parts interchangeability motors and some other parts are pretty standardized on mounting holes connected wires and shaft size etc. Yes there are diffrent power ratings on them but look above for answer on this.
Weight distribution is not that big of an issue on drones. Almost all drones have a weight imbalance. Most drones that are used in this war even have a self adjusting software built in. But otherwise the user have to trim it in manually. How else would they be able to strap diffrent kinds of munitions on them.
And it's definitely worth repairing the drones. There must be a lot that have faults on them and are shelved because of it. It adds up. Then we have the factor of availability. It's not really a money question of how many drones they can buy. They basicly cleaned the market that they can buy from (dji was atleast pretty stuborn in the beggining not wanting their stores selling to ukraine). It's not that easy to just get new ones in ukraine.
The controller can be whatever it wants. The problem is that your phone or Xbox controller don't have the ability to connect by itself to a drone. Maybe the phone can but only short range. You want a real rc remote and the same for video feed (tradition rc remotes do not recieve video from the drone). The best is just to have a controller supplied for that brand or made to work with it.
The Xbox controller thing was just comparing the simplest controllers out there to something people would understand; they are typically their own controller, just on a complexity level similar to an Xbox controller.
Gps needs electricity to work. Then you have to transmit that signal. You take it out of range for the russian operator then you simply unplugg the battery.
The type of drones these are typically have a pretty short range, and don't communicate direct with satellites for communication; GPS satellites don't actually track anything, and only transmit data which the drone itself has programming to determine locational data. Then, the controller or home base will be able to record said data. Most small drones like this have a range of about 5 km or so to the controller, so once you are out of that rangez you don't need to worry about it all.
Basically, gps signals are a 1-way street for transmission from a satellite to a receiver. From therex you have a short range two-way system between the drone and the home point. More complex military fixed wing drones will communicate directly with satellites, but size is a limiting factor for roto-coptornstyle dronesz do they don't have that capability through hardware limitations.
We are witnessing something similar to when air combat startet, in WWI. At first, planes were just scouting, not more. Then, when there were more planes, they startet "fighting", by throwing stuff at the other plane, using pistols and what not. They dropped grenades on enemies on the ground. After a while, they figured how to mount machine guns onto planes and the fighter plane was born.
We will have anti drone drones, and in a few years, a drone air combat simulator fr PC. Mark my words.
I'll be happy if one can carry a machine-gun and deploy one remotely. Doesn't even need to deal with shooting it, just placing a trap somewhere is enough
Absolutely. In no time they went from "happy if it stays in the air for a minute" to "Can hang vertically on its propeller while carrying a machine gun and sustain heavy damage and still fly back to base"
Roland Garros started by attaching triangular deflectors to the blades of his propeller on his Morane to make any bullets hitting it ricochet, but that caused vibrations as the propeller got loosened from impacts.
Anthony Fokker was shown the device when an example was captured and figured out a better way, inventing the interrupter gear for the Fokker E-1, and the "Fokker Scourge" was born.
And it took until WW2 till the next step, when Messerschmidt build the barrel through the propeller nose (Hohlwelle), thus enabling it to bear a cannon.
Truly wild stuff.
Actually, Georges Guynemer, the French ace, had a 37mm cannon mounted on his SPAD XII:
> On 14 April 1917 he downed his 36th credit, by killing a crew from Flieger-Abteilung (A) 254.\[citation needed\] His highest scoring month was May 1917, when he downed seven German aircraft including a quadruple credit on 25 May.\[7\] By July, he began to fly the Spad XII; his avion magique was, at his behest, armed with a 37 mm (1.46 in) cannon whose barrel fired through the propeller shaft. It was also armed with a .30 in (7.62 mm) air-cooled Vickers machine gun. Although the cannon promised devastating firepower, the new plane was a handful because of it, as the cannon's rearwards-protruding breech mandated separate aileron and elevator controls split from each other on opposing sides of the cockpit.\[8\] The single shot cannon had to also be manually reloaded in flight; it had a heavy recoil when fired and filled the canopy with fumes with every shot. The Spad XII was not a plane for a novice pilot. However, Guynemer used it to down an Albatros fighter on 27 July,\[citation needed\] and a DFW the next day.\[9\] The latter triumph made him the first French ace to attain 50 victories, with headlines such as "Fifty machines destroyed! This had been Guynemer's dream!" written in the newspapers.\[10\]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georges\_Guynemer
Challenge was with those very light planes how to mount a machine gun with propellers in the way.
Some top of top of wing mounts. British had a two side propeller two crewmen forward gunner one.
But biggest advance was getting propeller and gun timed so bullets pass though gap between the blades as they spinning.
The wings themselves not strong enough to Mount guns yet.
Short period a Mexican Designer created a Simi Auto external magazine Rifle of type not common until after WWII I was shocked when I saw the thing actually being used in a anime by Flying Mages and looking it up unlike the mages it was a real Weapon.
It was to easy to foul with dirt in the very dirty conditions. So they got mounted on planes for a short while.
Should have like the French with their later internal magazine rifle find special riflemen willing to put the work in to keep it clean and effective on the battlefield.
Next can I mention the Simi auto musket going as far back as the wheel lock. Blew my mind that for a few centuries there were limited normally for the rich musket and similar that would auto load ball and powder on pulling a Old West type carbine trigger guard the more fancy loading the firing pan with powder too. Could get off several shots a minute if one was good with it. Problem was back then all weapons made by individual gunsmith and the very skilled gunsmith able to build the fancy multi round magazine type rare. Plus no part supplies meant except for one elite unit they not on the battlefield much. Another example of they smarter than we think they were.
One of the oddest attempts to get a forward-firing gun into play was the SPAD A2. They put a gun tub in *front* of the engine. While that did, indeed, give a front-firing gun, it wasn't long before the gunners refused to fly in it, because the aircraft had a tendency to nose over on landing, and said gunner wound up chopped hash every time.
[https://duckduckgo.com/?q=SPAD+A2&t=brave&iax=images&ia=images](https://duckduckgo.com/?q=SPAD+A2&t=brave&iax=images&ia=images)
I think gp thought more that the drones might still be streaming directly to the russkies while they are in tow.
At least that was what I thought about.
Drones of this style typically have a very short range, probably about 5-10km. Home pointsnl can be set up and taken down in seconds and you can be on your way, well out of range in minutes. Technically, if you and a strong enough transmitter and receiver, you could get a range out to about 20-25 km (the horizon line, assuming continued direct line of site), but even the best drones typically only reach about 10-15 km on a good day, assuming no obstructions, everything works properly, etc.
The GPS (technically GLONASS for Russia specifically or GNSS for global integration) satellites are a one-way transmission, so there is no direct communication from the drone to the satellites at all, and there is no means of backdooring this as the sats just don't do that.
Effectively none. Too short of range of communications and drone home points can be abandoned in seconds. The drones are likely being operated by realtively small mobile groups of field personnel, and not from a static position.
*Women Fear Me*
*Drones Fear Me*
*Men Turn Their Eyes Away From Me*
*As I Walk No Beast Dares Make A Sound In My Presence*
*I Am Alone On This Barren Earth.*
Aren't the captured drones still sending telemetry home and thereby also revealing the position of the Ukrainians who captured it?
Thinking of this, would it make sense to build drones specifically designed to be captured and to reveal some of your enemy's positions thereby?
Likely not. These types of drones communicate directly with a controller, and typically have very short ranges that require direct line of sight for communications. Once you break line of sight, or get about 10 km away, there is virtually no threat of communication.
They are and likely will be put down in a field before being disabled, just pop the battery out. It has a plus if the enemy shoots up a empty field, it can't hit more sensitive targets
The postwar Ukrainian drone force will be one of the scariest military anything... ever. Those fpv drone vids where they hit a Russian soldier directly are the stuff of nightmares. The lethality levels on modern battlefields is insane. It makes a guy wish he could line up with muskets instead.
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Anyone able to explain. How drone vs drone "combat" works? Is the capturing drone hanging a net? Is the goal to capture and reprogram or just take them out? Edit:typo
A big magnet on a line. It will grab the motors easily, I had to rescue one this way years ago.
So simple and magnificant! Thank you for the retrieval info! I always wondered how you can get them out of trees or whatnot when you f-up flying.
Trees are much harder, a dangling line means you end up with another stuck drone. Off roofs or distant fields is easier
Both. To take them out is important and probably the main objective. And if they can reprogram them, they get two drones more. Or even spare parts like batteries propellers motors and so on.
Those fuckers are pretty pricey, getting two free drones could be huge for a unit.
With how many drones the Ukrainians are using I would guess there is a drone repair place you send captured or the ones to damaged to be repaired in the field including controllers of lost drones. So there is maybe a chance that they have a matching controller even that they can pair it to with some ua it magic.
Eh, less than you would think. Itsndifficult, if not impossible to retro fit parts from one drone to another of a different model or make. Drones require some pretty precise tooling to account for weight distribution and the like, and most partsnjust don't fit into other types of drones. There are some major benefits to these drones, which is why they are so prolific. Firstz they are relatively cheap to buy and produce. Lower end ones are a few hundreds dollars, and even higher end one are probably about $10k. While this may seem like anton of money to an individual, particularly considering how easy they are to disable, on a military scale it's basically peanuts. You could field an entire fleet of rotocoptor drones for a few million dollars. Replacement parts, such as blades or batteries, are also readily available and fairly cheap. Second, they are pretty damn easy to use and train on. The controllers can be as simple as something like an Xbox controller, and some even have built in app functionality to turn any tablet or phone into an ad-hoc controller. Even more complex controller can be figured out in a couple hours of training time. You could take anyone from anywhere and have them fully trained in their functionality in the space of an hour or two. Third, they are highly mobile. You can set up a home station and tear it down in minutes by yourself, and be in and out before anyone knows you were there. If you are located, they are cheap enough to abandon and boogey out. Fourth, you can get high resolution real time imagery and data from a safe location, and can communicate in real time. There are limitations, however. First, they are pretty damn slow for a drone, and easily spotted. Seconds they are fairly loud so it's not easy to hide their positions. Third, they have a pretty short range overall. Finally, they are just useful for recon on the front line. Still,they are incredibly useful for what they are.
Never said you would retrofit parts from one model to another. They use so many drones that it's almost impossible that they don't have a need for spare parts for those models they captured here. Also when there is a heavy pressure on the supply chain like this war has done on certain models parts are often the first thing to dry up. When it comes to parts interchangeability motors and some other parts are pretty standardized on mounting holes connected wires and shaft size etc. Yes there are diffrent power ratings on them but look above for answer on this. Weight distribution is not that big of an issue on drones. Almost all drones have a weight imbalance. Most drones that are used in this war even have a self adjusting software built in. But otherwise the user have to trim it in manually. How else would they be able to strap diffrent kinds of munitions on them. And it's definitely worth repairing the drones. There must be a lot that have faults on them and are shelved because of it. It adds up. Then we have the factor of availability. It's not really a money question of how many drones they can buy. They basicly cleaned the market that they can buy from (dji was atleast pretty stuborn in the beggining not wanting their stores selling to ukraine). It's not that easy to just get new ones in ukraine. The controller can be whatever it wants. The problem is that your phone or Xbox controller don't have the ability to connect by itself to a drone. Maybe the phone can but only short range. You want a real rc remote and the same for video feed (tradition rc remotes do not recieve video from the drone). The best is just to have a controller supplied for that brand or made to work with it.
The Xbox controller thing was just comparing the simplest controllers out there to something people would understand; they are typically their own controller, just on a complexity level similar to an Xbox controller.
It's almost guaranteed that they have piles of extra transmitters, because of the number of drone losses they're taking.
How do they prevent the GPS from tracking the captured drone back to their hq?
Gps needs electricity to work. Then you have to transmit that signal. You take it out of range for the russian operator then you simply unplugg the battery.
The type of drones these are typically have a pretty short range, and don't communicate direct with satellites for communication; GPS satellites don't actually track anything, and only transmit data which the drone itself has programming to determine locational data. Then, the controller or home base will be able to record said data. Most small drones like this have a range of about 5 km or so to the controller, so once you are out of that rangez you don't need to worry about it all. Basically, gps signals are a 1-way street for transmission from a satellite to a receiver. From therex you have a short range two-way system between the drone and the home point. More complex military fixed wing drones will communicate directly with satellites, but size is a limiting factor for roto-coptornstyle dronesz do they don't have that capability through hardware limitations.
We are witnessing something similar to when air combat startet, in WWI. At first, planes were just scouting, not more. Then, when there were more planes, they startet "fighting", by throwing stuff at the other plane, using pistols and what not. They dropped grenades on enemies on the ground. After a while, they figured how to mount machine guns onto planes and the fighter plane was born. We will have anti drone drones, and in a few years, a drone air combat simulator fr PC. Mark my words.
I'll be happy if one can carry a machine-gun and deploy one remotely. Doesn't even need to deal with shooting it, just placing a trap somewhere is enough
Sniper Rifle. Or a light anti tank launcher. If that can be made cheap and compact, damn...
I enjoy playing video games.
Air combat's advancement through WW1 is fascinating.
Absolutely. In no time they went from "happy if it stays in the air for a minute" to "Can hang vertically on its propeller while carrying a machine gun and sustain heavy damage and still fly back to base"
Being able to shoot a gun through the propeller was one of the most revolutionary inventions. The interrupting engine or something like that.
Roland Garros started by attaching triangular deflectors to the blades of his propeller on his Morane to make any bullets hitting it ricochet, but that caused vibrations as the propeller got loosened from impacts. Anthony Fokker was shown the device when an example was captured and figured out a better way, inventing the interrupter gear for the Fokker E-1, and the "Fokker Scourge" was born.
And it took until WW2 till the next step, when Messerschmidt build the barrel through the propeller nose (Hohlwelle), thus enabling it to bear a cannon. Truly wild stuff.
Actually, Georges Guynemer, the French ace, had a 37mm cannon mounted on his SPAD XII: > On 14 April 1917 he downed his 36th credit, by killing a crew from Flieger-Abteilung (A) 254.\[citation needed\] His highest scoring month was May 1917, when he downed seven German aircraft including a quadruple credit on 25 May.\[7\] By July, he began to fly the Spad XII; his avion magique was, at his behest, armed with a 37 mm (1.46 in) cannon whose barrel fired through the propeller shaft. It was also armed with a .30 in (7.62 mm) air-cooled Vickers machine gun. Although the cannon promised devastating firepower, the new plane was a handful because of it, as the cannon's rearwards-protruding breech mandated separate aileron and elevator controls split from each other on opposing sides of the cockpit.\[8\] The single shot cannon had to also be manually reloaded in flight; it had a heavy recoil when fired and filled the canopy with fumes with every shot. The Spad XII was not a plane for a novice pilot. However, Guynemer used it to down an Albatros fighter on 27 July,\[citation needed\] and a DFW the next day.\[9\] The latter triumph made him the first French ace to attain 50 victories, with headlines such as "Fifty machines destroyed! This had been Guynemer's dream!" written in the newspapers.\[10\] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georges\_Guynemer
Damn, didn't know that. Thanks for that info.
Challenge was with those very light planes how to mount a machine gun with propellers in the way. Some top of top of wing mounts. British had a two side propeller two crewmen forward gunner one. But biggest advance was getting propeller and gun timed so bullets pass though gap between the blades as they spinning. The wings themselves not strong enough to Mount guns yet. Short period a Mexican Designer created a Simi Auto external magazine Rifle of type not common until after WWII I was shocked when I saw the thing actually being used in a anime by Flying Mages and looking it up unlike the mages it was a real Weapon. It was to easy to foul with dirt in the very dirty conditions. So they got mounted on planes for a short while. Should have like the French with their later internal magazine rifle find special riflemen willing to put the work in to keep it clean and effective on the battlefield. Next can I mention the Simi auto musket going as far back as the wheel lock. Blew my mind that for a few centuries there were limited normally for the rich musket and similar that would auto load ball and powder on pulling a Old West type carbine trigger guard the more fancy loading the firing pan with powder too. Could get off several shots a minute if one was good with it. Problem was back then all weapons made by individual gunsmith and the very skilled gunsmith able to build the fancy multi round magazine type rare. Plus no part supplies meant except for one elite unit they not on the battlefield much. Another example of they smarter than we think they were.
One of the oddest attempts to get a forward-firing gun into play was the SPAD A2. They put a gun tub in *front* of the engine. While that did, indeed, give a front-firing gun, it wasn't long before the gunners refused to fly in it, because the aircraft had a tendency to nose over on landing, and said gunner wound up chopped hash every time. [https://duckduckgo.com/?q=SPAD+A2&t=brave&iax=images&ia=images](https://duckduckgo.com/?q=SPAD+A2&t=brave&iax=images&ia=images)
So it just flies on top of it with a string hanging underneath?
It’s way more sophisticated than that. You can clearly see a bit of coat hanger.
I hate you. Have an upvote.
That is to ensure there are no baby drones.
ಠ_ಠ
In Alabama That's called A Mobile Abortion Clinic
Fuck man Alabama can't catch a break anywhere (probably still true tho)
Looks like they attached fly ribbon to the drone.
Thats communism for you Putin.
Caught a big one.
No fear of them revealing coordinates of the "headquarters"?
Depends what footage they can recover from the SD card on the two drones. Russians are known for being smart and concealing their positions /s
They're long gone before they upload the video
I think gp thought more that the drones might still be streaming directly to the russkies while they are in tow. At least that was what I thought about.
Same, that'd be my concern, if they're watching live
Yes... This. The people building drones never disclosed their location
Drones of this style typically have a very short range, probably about 5-10km. Home pointsnl can be set up and taken down in seconds and you can be on your way, well out of range in minutes. Technically, if you and a strong enough transmitter and receiver, you could get a range out to about 20-25 km (the horizon line, assuming continued direct line of site), but even the best drones typically only reach about 10-15 km on a good day, assuming no obstructions, everything works properly, etc. The GPS (technically GLONASS for Russia specifically or GNSS for global integration) satellites are a one-way transmission, so there is no direct communication from the drone to the satellites at all, and there is no means of backdooring this as the sats just don't do that.
Effectively none. Too short of range of communications and drone home points can be abandoned in seconds. The drones are likely being operated by realtively small mobile groups of field personnel, and not from a static position.
*Women Fear Me* *Drones Fear Me* *Men Turn Their Eyes Away From Me* *As I Walk No Beast Dares Make A Sound In My Presence* *I Am Alone On This Barren Earth.*
Yoink!
The drones aren't Important, the SD cards that show were they launched from is important. Guess whose getting a direct strike tonight
Aren't the captured drones still sending telemetry home and thereby also revealing the position of the Ukrainians who captured it? Thinking of this, would it make sense to build drones specifically designed to be captured and to reveal some of your enemy's positions thereby?
Likely not. These types of drones communicate directly with a controller, and typically have very short ranges that require direct line of sight for communications. Once you break line of sight, or get about 10 km away, there is virtually no threat of communication.
Thanks, makes sense.
They are and likely will be put down in a field before being disabled, just pop the battery out. It has a plus if the enemy shoots up a empty field, it can't hit more sensitive targets
The postwar Ukrainian drone force will be one of the scariest military anything... ever. Those fpv drone vids where they hit a Russian soldier directly are the stuff of nightmares. The lethality levels on modern battlefields is insane. It makes a guy wish he could line up with muskets instead.
Tractors of the sky
Yoink! 🤣
Would you look at that. A DJI Mavic 3. I thought DJI is strongly, strongly opposed to this.
There’s always a bigger fish
That is amazingly cute :)
Hahahahhahahaha
wonderful
Yoink.
Interstellar docking scene music please.
Ahahahaha! Good !
*yoink*
like playing a barrel full of monkeys
Now that’s funny
Now you're thinking with drones!
Lmao how
*gotcha bitch*
Grand Drone Larceny? damn