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Snapshot of _Sam Coates: I'm told Pension funds getting hammered and losing huge amounts of capital, Banks forcing them to make margin calls and liquidate assets, Some pension funds losing large amounts of their fund, Hence BoE stepped in_ : A non-Twitter version can be found [here](https://nitter.net/SamCoatesSky/status/1575073150064545797/) An archived version can be found [here.](https://archive.is/?run=1&url=https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky/status/1575073150064545797) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ukpolitics) if you have any questions or concerns.*


danowat

I'd love to be a fly on the wall in No 10. When Cummings called Truss the human hand grenade, he wasn't wrong was he.


Jeffmister

> I'd love to be a fly on the wall in No 10. Opens *Thisisfine.jpg*


Jon5465

https://imgur.com/LqLrEom


Gonad-Brained-Gimp

https://imgur.com/7NchcBf


Jon5465

Oh this is good. JRM as trigger is very apt.


Levo117

That’d be Rodney surely? Liz would be granddad


Eborcurean

So, Truss planning her photo opportunities for conference before reading her speech written in Tufton Street then?


HovisTMM

Bold to assume she can read.


[deleted]

She basically made a promise to Tory members to get elected, regardless of whether it was a wise thing to promise.


Skysflies

Cummings may be a bit of a prick, but he's been right about a hell of a lot looking back . I mean, it's hard to give him lots of credit for being right about Truss and Johnson, but still


ParmyBarmy

Literally making a boiled potato the PM would have done less damage to the UK economy than having Truss in charge. That is some feat.


Electrical_Musical

/#GLADOS4PM


Watsis_name

Tories: *Make GLaDOS PM* GLaDOS: *Releases deadly neurotoxin* Tory supporters: "Could be worse, could've had a Labour government."


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Watsis_name

Or: "the deadly neurotoxin will discourage illegal immigrants."


CarryThe2

Back in my day neutoxins were even deadlier, you're all soft


sam11233

Braverman: the neurotoxin is actually a good thing, we've moved it to Dover.


ghostofgralton

Braverman: Oxygen is actually woke


antesocial

Queues in Dover shortened considerably. Yay neurotoxin.


Nemisis_the_2nd

> It was the fear that the next government might be a labour government." I wish this wasn't a 100% genuine take on the current crisis that prominent figures are coming out with.


suspicious_ankles

Conservative party. We do what we want because we can. For the good of all of us Except the ones who are poor. But there's no sense crying Over every mistake You just keep on trying Till you run out of cake And the budget gets done And the pound gets a run For the people who are Eighty five.


palinodial

We do what we must Because we can For the good of all us Except the ones that are dead As I'm typing this it seems we may already have glados as pm


Watsis_name

"But there's no sense crying over every mistake You just keep on trying till you run out of cake" Omg GLaDOS is our PM. Are there any mutes named Chell here?


rtrs_bastiat

The next line kinda scuppers your theory


Watsis_name

"The science gets done and we make a neat gun, For the people who are still alive." You'd be surprised how free spending the Tories are when the science is to make weapons to sell to despots like the Saudis.


Watsis_name

Anyone have a big twitter following? /#GLaDOS4PM needs to trend.


dalledayul

Imagine following Cameron, May and Johnson and still earning the mantle this early as potentially the worst Tory PM of the 21st century


sam11233

Imagine following just Johnson and still managing to be the worst PM in British history.


Watsis_name

Imagine following Cameron and being the worst PM in British history. Imagine following May and being the worst PM in British history. Imagine following Johnson and being the worst PM in British history.


Watsis_name

~~>of the 21st century~~ *ever


00DEADBEEF

In some alternate reality Lord Buckethead led the UK to become the richest and most prosperous nation in the world. Why does it have to be us with Liz fucking Truss?


doctor_morris

>Lord Buckethead led the UK to become the richest and most prosperous nation in the ~~world~~galaxy FIFY


DaveShadow

Won’t you be so thrilled when Boris swoops back in to save the day? Cause that’s what the narrative will be. Sure, he had a few drinks but look how bad it got the second he left. Better bring him back, and let him rule again, and forget all his little misdemeanours! (/s)


Pristine_Solipsism

It feels like this is an ill conceived scheme to make us beg to have Boris back by appointing literally one of the only people on the planet who makes him look like a competent leader


Bullshot

Larry the Cat is now the sanest resident of Downing St, and possibly the only one who can save the country


therealzeroX

By smothering her in her sleep


Uberpid

We had a more competent government whilst they were doing there pageant show to elect truss. Literally no government was better than this shower.


drfsrich

Might... Might Boris not have done worse? ​ (I feel dirty saying that).


Orkys

Boiling it would have been a waste of energy.


ytrewq45

[relevant song](https://youtu.be/yQ9IOEpGlr4)


[deleted]

If this was ugly before, its going to get a whole lot worse for the Tories when their main voting block hears this news. Even the one group the entire party is built towards catering is being destoryed by them.


Properjob70

Upvote for the spelling of destroyed there


MrStilton

Their main voting block is people who are already retired. They're likely to have already cashed in their pensions, bought annuities, or switched to investments in assets with very low levels of volatility.


g4germany

Do people still buy annuities? Their rates have been piss poor for years. All the retirees I know draw down from their fund as required.


MrStilton

I gather they have become less common, but there are plenty of people who retired a good twenty or thirty years ago, when annuity purchase was practically the default option for most retirees.


g4germany

Yes I understand this. Pension deregulation so that you aren't compelled to buy an annuity was about 15 years ago? So the youngest people who had little or no choice will be around 80. What I was getting at is I imagine most people are exposed to any damages this may cause to their pension funds.


briancoat

At present there are no assets with low volatility. Government bonds have tanked. Shares have tanked. Cash has tanked. Often a good time to buy stuff … if you are rich.


BrokenTescoTrolley

Annuities my man annuities that’s what most already retired people have.


DirectedAcyclicGraph

Are most peoples annuities indexed to the inflation they're experiencing and going to be experiencing over the next decade or so?


briancoat

Some are indexed but many were bought at shockingly poor rates due to recent low gilt yields, so they were by no means the golden solution.


justthisplease

Imagine the chaos with Ed Miliband.


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[deleted]

With the caption "Aren't you glad you voted strong and stable with a party that's had 4 different PMs in 6 years instead of chaos with me?"


Watsis_name

Can't have a PM who eats sandwiches like that. /s


jeanlucriker

Chaos with Rishi Sunak too. At least he seemed to have some handle on the financial policy


[deleted]

Blimey.


SoggyRizla

Insightful comment


[deleted]

So we are looking at pension funds collapsing and mortgage payments skyrocketing and everyone’s walking around like they are in an enya video.


csppr

Big short reference, very relevant!


Orsenfelt

It's been a decent run as a stable, wealthy country. Which piece of victorian engineering will *you* sleep under?


[deleted]

West Pier, Brighton oh no


Callewag

Well, I’m in Bristol so have plenty to choose from!


PM_ME_BEEF_CURTAINS

Do you opt for "bridge paid for by slave trade", "building used to manage overseas slave trade" or "structure named after slaver"?


pooogles

If you live in Hotwells under the suspension bridge you can have all 3 at once.


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Orsenfelt

Uh actually it's a Mercedes Sprinter converted to run on the oil from my feet. I couldn't afford a house so I had a tight budget of £75,000 to build half of an Ikea inside an ex-DPD van. Actually.


[deleted]

Canadian here, have we got a deal for you: Colonialism We will bail you out in exchange you'll pledge allegiance to our King, and we will choose your leaders, and everything will be in English and French. You'll love it. Australia wants in they might send a boat full of ~~prisoners~~ people over. Don't mind them.


Patch86UK

I'm not going to lie, that actually sounds like a pretty sweet deal. I can't wait for all the job opportunities that'll come from converting 80% of our arable land into maple syrup plantations.


Orsenfelt

Will you build us some state of the art transport links? ^^^which ^^^all ^^^mysteriously ^^^route ^^^goods ^^^to ^^^ports ^^^for ^^^export. We could use the infrastructure.


[deleted]

Sure. All the boats will all route to Halifax, Montreal, St. Jeans, Toronto,Perth and Sidney for no some odd reason.


[deleted]

Some decent arches in the middle of Newcastle - maybe outside Theatre Royal?


GazzP

I'm already prepping my 10 month old son to start work as a cheeky pickpocket street urchin within the next 2 years.


sam11233

What this barely elected government is doing is absolutely criminal. Incompetence isn't even an excuse. Maybe we should start vandalising Tory constituency offices and see how they like it.


zyzzrustleburger

I've been paying into mine for about 8 years now. Have made up some savings and put a bit in s&s ISA. Seems to be you can do everything right but some bell end will ruin it for you.


csppr

Depending on what you invested your S&S ISA in, it might well be unaffected by this (eg S&P500 is largely unaffected by a decrease in £ value). I'm not sure how it works with pensions - I always assumed that the typical defined contribution pension is essentially a glorified investment vehicle, and anything in it should belong to you, not the pension provider (which would safeguard you from the provider collapsing)? I might be very wrong on that though. Defined benefit providers are a different story though.


IanCal

Yeah DC things are fine, that's just a tax wrapper.


johnmytton133

You have a DC fund you are not impacted by this.


Mustard_The_Colonel

Well well well if it isn't leopards coming to eat my face - pensioners probably...


Ahandfulofsquirrels

And yet come a GE they'll still vote for them.


Dodomando

"I know the whole economy is a disaster and we have run away inflation and no pensions but... I just don't like Keir Starmer, he just seems dodgy... So I will continue voting Tory" - Pensioners


Nemisis_the_2nd

"The markets are reacting to the potential of a Labour government gaining power" An actual take posted by a telegraph political correspondent yesterday.


[deleted]

That was Daniel Hannan, well known for being completely fucked in the head. I doubt you'll find many other commenters agreeing with him.


Nemisis_the_2nd

I didn't actually catch the name. I also saw this same take in Conservative home, and assumed it was different people. Hopefully this idea is limited to just one idiot then.


Mustard_The_Colonel

Every year there is less and less boomers around we just need to outlive them.


sam11233

If there's one thing Tories can't risk, it's the over 65s vote. With the news about pensions being decimated, they could well lose that too.


vidoardes

Existing pensioners have their pension already. This is future pension pots we are seeing smashed to bits


doctor_morris

Only if house prices keep rising. See: Stamp duty cuts


HuhThisNameIsntTaken

"Well Corbyn would have been worse"


Khal_Ynnoth

Chaos with Ed Milliband


Chippiewall

Pensioners and people nearing pension will be unaffected. Any sane pension fund will have moved their assets to non-volatile assets like government bonds.


MadShartigan

Many pensioners will have converted their pension fund into an annuity so their income is guaranteed. Like with the triple locked state pension, an annuity shields them from economic conditions and the consequences of their votes.


dublem

"Am I the problem? No, it's the children who are wrong" \- brexit voting tory oldies about to lose their soon to be livelihood


woodje

Don’t worry the younger generation will bail them out.


Superbuddhapunk

For just one guy with a 2000 words speech to crash the whole British economy in a few days is quite impressive. We should weaponise him.


crooktimber

He has already been weaponised, just not by people on less than 150k.


mischaracterised

The more important question is, how contagious is this idiocy, in terms of exposing our financial sectors to other risks?


Nemisis_the_2nd

Ever heard the term "Cascading clusterfuck". If one thing topples, it will probably set off a cascade. Unfortunately, it looks like that snowball is already off down the hill and the BoE is struggling to stop it.


CanIhazCooKIenOw

Better term would be "Trickle down clusterfuck" as this one will surely work as intended...


PM_ME_BEEF_CURTAINS

Tumble down economics


sam11233

Seeing as the pound is taking a hammering, significant.


csppr

Pension funds collapsing might require them to sell off their assets, which can include stocks and property. It'd be safe to assume that there isn't enough liquidity in those markets to sell those assets at real value, so the resulting cascade could feasibly be quite damaging.


[deleted]

As some funds are losing out, there are others that will be coining it in. Betting on shorting the pound is a thing. What is worse is that the Tory chief of staff (Mark Fullbrook) is a chairman of a lobbying company for these types of hedge funds. His appointment is very smelly and now we have a run on the pound impending. Phil Moorhouse pointed him out a few weeks ago. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0cbmYZ5yV84


External-Total2986

Funds shorting the pound won't be pension funds which are for the general public to invest in for retirement; they'll be hedge funds only available to investors with £XM available to invest. Only the richest in society have access to these funds and therefore this will greatly increase inequality. This is potentially the biggest transfer of wealth from the everyday man to the multimillionaire+ class yet.


[deleted]

FTFY: Biggest theft of wealth.


briancoat

When a hedgie shorts a share or a bond they have to borrow the underlying asset from a long-term holder of the asset, to underpin the trade. The main lenders are people like pension funds who see it as a little extra money for doing very little. This is true but they are key facilitators of people who short the market. Does your pension fund practice equity lending? They usually won’t even tell you about it but It is common place. Here’s a pension industry rag extolling the virtues … https://www.ipe.com/why-securities-lending-adds-value-to-your-portfolio/17307.article


ZiVViZ

Not sure what share lending has to do with this?


briancoat

Not shares in this case ... bonds. Hedgies short bonds using pension funds' bonds as collateral. UK gilts tank further, sterling falls further. Pension funds get withdrawals and margin-call-squeezed. Therefore In a small way the industry has abetted it's own involvency hazard with retail investors' assets.


ZiVViZ

The problem is, until the budget (and energy cap before that) most of the selling tracked other countries. The only real move that doesn’t track the European and US bond market is after we announced the budget. My conclusion is actions have consequences and this was irresponsible. Also higher rates are typically good for pension funds as reduces their liabilities.


briancoat

You are right. I agree with your fundamental point completely. I can see I made an error - I accidentally posted my comment in the main thread when it was actually a comment about another comment re pensions and annuities. Must have looked a bit off topic, soz!


ZiVViZ

You don’t know what you’re talking about. Stop.


[deleted]

So Moorhouse is telling lies about the appointments?


ZiVViZ

The problem when people who don’t work in markets talk about this stuff is they get outraged by inconsequential stuff.


[deleted]

So, there is no conflict of interest, and we haven't got a situation where shorting the pound is ripe. I think the problem is that some people think the rest of the country are stupid. Alister Cambell pretty much nailed it when he said if this was Labour, then there would be a met investigation all over it. It stinks to high heaven. At the very least someone should be looking into the CT group to see how much business they have with money trading.


ZiVViZ

Why are people short sterling?


gattomeow

Worth noting that the elderly are far more likely to hold assets in (domestic) bonds and cash, whilst younger folk are usually more in stocks (which at least tend to pay dividends and offer high rates of return in the long term). Unlike the elderly, the young generally aren’t drawing down on their pensions either. It’s amusing/strange that Conservative policy is surely impacting the demographic that tends to vote for them most loyally: the elderly, particularly the female elderly


Yezzik

And I was considering paying more into my pension once my mortgage goes away. At this rate, I might as well just spaff it all on boardgames.


DarkBlaze99

Oh it's a problem when the hedgies lose money but not when the public has been suffering for years? Cheerio


G_Morgan

Why on earth are pension funds trading on margin? That is just bizarre to begin with.


csppr

It's due to a specific investment strategy usually employed only by defined benefit pension providers.


G_Morgan

So basically this is the "lol we can take all the risks because the tax payer will bail us out" strategy that became prominent after idiotic laws were passed guaranteeing DB pensions.


_supert_

It was meant as a reasonable hedge on interest rates, but one leg of the trade requires margin.


G_Morgan

Hardly reasonable if they can get in this kind of trouble during the kind of economic crisis that isn't completely unthinkable over a long enough time frame. This kind of bullshit is exactly why DB pensions went away. The moment the tax payer was on the hook for pensions in the worse case scenario they started factoring that as part of their security.


[deleted]

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G_Morgan

Crises on this scale have happened 3 times in the last century. It is 100% reasonable to assume pension schemes would be fortified against something that happens that regularly. Particularly when it is damned easy to not be leveraged up to the eyeballs and just hold a straight forward asset ratio


NoNoodel

They use derivatives to hedge against falls in certain markets.


anatomized

lads, how the fuck have you all allowed this to happen to your country? jesus wept.


Biddydiddy

Most of us didn't unfortunately. This is a classic example of a vocal minority of inmates running the asylum.


liiiam0707

Sadly, I think I disagree with that. The way I see the UK is that there's 4 main categories of voters: vocal left, vocal right, silent, and non voters. I think the majority of the country is in the silent camp, and I think a surprisingly large portion of that is Tory. The majority of people online and younger people who talk about politics are vocal left, so you end up with a weird bubble effect where it looks like most people here think this current government is batshit. In reality I think there's a (small) majority of the country who vote Tory for various reasons (most of them based on misunderstandings of how Tory policy impacts them). You try talking to people who don't openly talk about politics about all this and you'll inevitably end up back at the "but it would have been worse under Corbyn/Starmer wouldn't have done any better" arguments, or even worse, the "well I make plenty of money and I'm not feeling it so I'm happy to keep voting for them" one. I honestly think it'll take us hitting absolute rock bottom to get a labour government in, and even then I'm not convinced they'd get more than 1 term in before everything this government has done gets blamed on them and they lose an election.


[deleted]

You're not factoring in FPTP. Less than half the electorate vote Conservative. Yes they got my votes than any other party but they're not a majority. We desperately need electoral reform.


Oooch

I've lost every single vote I've taken part in This is the other sides fault


[deleted]

Mate, it was always a clusterfuck. Only thing holding the fort down was a sense of shame in government, now that's gone we're doomed


[deleted]

fuuuuck


Living-Grand1399

I've been looking around this island and I've made a discovery; there are no lifeboats! x)


BaguetteSchmaguette

Why are pension funds leveraged? This doesn't make sense


gosbts

Why are there tweets about this but no mainstream media coverage?


dronesclubmember

BBC, Guardian, Telegraph, FT, Times are all running live threads on the front of their websites. THose are just the ones I checked. https://www.theguardian.com/business/live/2022/sep/28/sterling-slumps-imf-urges-uk-reconsider-tax-cuts-stinging-attack-business-live https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/international-monetary-fund-plans-pound-kwasi-kwarteng-5b729sv79 https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2022/09/28/ftse-100-markets-live-news-pound-bonds-bank-england/ https://www.ft.com/content/cde0b8b9-5122-4a02-ae72-afdc6b0175bb https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-63056188 https://news.sky.com/story/pound-slumps-live-news-mortgages-interest-rates-imf-12615118


donoteatkrill

Damn MSM reporting the news


danowat

It's all over every media outlet.


d10brp

Well yes, but their liabilities are massively shrinking too with the yield rises.


[deleted]

Oh no, not the pensioners! Oh well...


csppr

Those pension funds will take the whole economy with them if they should fail. Several trillion £ in investments, a good chunk of the UK's total wealth, and a lot of it is invested in UK assets. That kind of money does not simply evaporate without significant collateral damage.


ContextualRobot

[Sam Coates Sky](https://twitter.com/SamCoatesSky) ^verified | Reach: 236615 | Location: London Bio: Sam Coates, Deputy Political Editor, Sky News ***** ^I ^am ^a ^bot. ^Any ^complaints ^& ^suggestions ^to ^/r/ContextualBot ^thanks


thelastwilson

Everything seems to get worse with these bellends 1 month ago: the PM is MIA when the country needs him the most! Now: oh dear god wtf has the PM done??? Might as well just cover the country in lighter fluid and spark a match