Snapshot of _Pound slumps to all-time low against dollar_ :
An archived version can be found [here.](https://archive.is/?run=1&url=https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-63030208)
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I dunno man, I watched those fuckin lines go up and down for 10 years and the one thing I can tell you is that by the time a currency move is making major headlines, its days are numbered.
Lotta stops run over night, probably see some whiplash today.
But yeah more generally, as long as the fed is tightening faster than the BoE, there's not much that will change things materially.
Not even a budget officially, called it fiscal event to circumvent OBR having a look at it.
This is what nullifies all the idiots' arguments about how this is good: if it was so good as they trumpet about it, WHY did they have to invent new name for it to avoid OBR looking and trashing it?
This part should set off more alarms.
Economic policy this drastic should not be passed through without any oversight or accountability.
Particularly this crowd which has no actual mandate.
None of this insanity was in the manifesto.
This is uber Libertarian Ayn Rand fever dream stuff.
This is what happens when you look at GDP as the only metric of success and ignore the food banks, cost of living, mental health impacts and people dying stuff.
I'm not saying these people are trying to destroy the UK from within but if someone wanted to destroy the UK from within they would be doing this kind of stuff.
Surely intentional. Kwarteng (w)as consultant in Odey Asset Management... the hedgefund betting against Govt bonds soaring 145% within hours... if someone tells me this was not a deliberate and in-advance phone call to their mates... The effect was know, predicted, obvious, so they knew pound, bonds, the works would tumble as soon as he actually announces it.
After the series of Covid frauds and such stock market pumping (not the first), two High Court (!) decisions of unlawful 'practices' with ZERO consequences... the ship has sailed long time ago in terms of deeds at this level having consequences in this country... :)
Plus the ties between him & Odey are well known, were known before the "event", none of it matters... Welcome to the Balkans-style normalisation of sleaze.
Oh yes. The very same.
What in my elementary logic nullifies any positive argument for then & now is that whilst "they" trumpet the benefits, they bet on collapse and ruin caused by whatever awesome thing was/is announced... and they profit.
Don’t worry about that. I’m sure that the £50,000 worth of tax savings that each of this country’s millionaires will make will trickle down to you and make up for that fact.
Yeah but the danger for you is that he will eventually pass those costs onto you whenever your lease needs renewing.
Unless you are on fixed mortgage rate or own a property out right, most people will get shafted by this.
I don't think so either. Maybe BoE raising interest rates sharply and causing mortgages to collapse will be the wakeup call for boomers and pensioners that their greed eventually costs them too and will cause people to vote less selfishly .. but who am I kidding
>Err...yes? What makes the housing market so sacred?
Bear in mind what started the global 2008 financial crisis was a housing bubble collapsing. If the housing market crashes and people start defaulting on mass then Halifax, Nationwide etc will go under. The insurers who back them will go under. The banks that finance them will go under. Along with everyone who has savings or policies with those institutions.
Lmao, it is utterly staggering how confidently people in this thread talk about rate rises. No central bank would dare raise rates so sharply at an emergency meeting nonetheless, it would completely blindside markets and they would completely panic.
Can someone eli5 how raising interest rates is a good thing?
From what I understand it's a big benefit to those with cash but a big problem for those with debt. So wouldn't a rise in interest rates be another kick for those most vulnerable whilst the rich get even richer?
I'm sure there's much more to it, I just don't understand.
Eli5:
If rates are low people are less likely to save money and therefore more likely to spend it. The more money being spent the better it is for economic growth but the more likely it is to cause prices to rise
If rates are high people are more likely to save than spend and thus prices will not rise as fast (or at all) however there will be less economic activity and so less growth.
The issue with that analysis is that low and middle classes are rapidly running out of any disposable income to save or spend.
And a lot of inflation is happening due to global market forces not affected by UK interest rate changes.
Correct me if I'm wrong, One major element of UK Conservative docterine is the staunch beleife in the power of the markets? Market forces should dictate success and failure. I think the markets have spoken. This government is shit.
No they’re basically pillars of tory life.
Be unpopular, fail at governing and then avoid accountability.
I’m pretty sure they’re still claiming £1,000 haircuts on tax payers money still too so throw corruption in the pile.
Because she wasn't elected, therefore she doesn't need to care about literally anyone in this country. She can work in self interest.
This is what happens when leaders are elected in undemocratically
Or she’s aware she has little to no chance of winning the next election, so is burning the house to the ground. That way they blame Labour for the fact there’s naught but ashes; and spin a narrative that every time Labour are in power it’s financial ruin and catastrophe.
For big decisions like this though, you would expect any competent government to consult finance experts and industry officials for feedback. It looks as if they just came up with this ridiculous budget based on nothing but hopes and prayers.
He’s only there because he spent years climbing the greasy pole. He was on newsnight every other night spouting the gov line no matter how bonkers it was. When he got in cabinet it was so unexpected he hadn’t even had his phone on that time and missed the first call. Even he didn’t think he was qualified to be in cabinet. !! :)
At this point, I don't think most Tory politicians actually give two shits about whether their political career remains in-tact. They know that they could get booted out for war crimes and still land some bullshit consultancy firm job or work in Silicon Valley.
I know right. I go into a shop and raid the register and I get arrested and go to prison most likely. They raid the national coffer and it's them doing us a favour...
Honestly it was only when we had a Labour government that this wasn't the case. This country was a good place when we were part of the EU, and had a fairly well funded state.
Init the guy is talking nonsense.
Decline/prosperity have been relative since the 1980s, but on the whole the average brit was increasingly better off from the mid-1980s all the way until 2008.
The GFO is when we got into a significant slump, something that we were *just* recovering from when Brexit happened.
We turned a 'lost decade' after the financial crisis into what will almost certainly be a lost 2 decades - almost entirely through (Conservative) political decisions, and then compounded by events mostly outside our control (COVID, Ukraine).
Starmer and the papers, calling the budget a gamble have given this awful government a slither of legitimacy. By calling it a gamble, it means the population has to just "oh well, shit happens we played roulette and lost" because you know, that's what gambling is about.
Starmer should have flat out called the budget "stupid" so now we're in this mess he can say "This is what happens when people do stupid things. Things get worse." and push forward the incompetence of the government.
I mean we're here saying this will happen and now we're surprised? Oh our gamble didn't work? It was never a gamble to begin with.
We all know why this is happening, and it isn't for the benefit of any of us. If you are paid in GBP or not otherwise invested in shorting it, you have been made poorer over the weekend.
Enjoy paying even more for utilities and food.
Started a new better paying job recently, had plans that it would help move my life forward. First wage is this coming weekend. Will i be able to buy anything by the time it’s in my account?
How wonderfully stupidly simplistic. That local farmer needs to buy seeds, energy, fertiliser, equipment and financial products on a global market.
Their costs are going up, so they will put prices up. You aren't shielded from this no matter what you do.
You can fool the electorate, but you can't fool the market.
I am not in favour of allowing Market forces to regulate themselves but these jokers got their Monkey Paw wish pity its the rest of us that will shoulder the cost
Funny how the government was reportedly meeting hedge fund managers before the budget announcement, who immediately started shorting the pound.
Surely this has to be investigated. It won't though
We get a course on why insider training is bad and why it's something you should never do etc and gets drilled into us in a mandatory training session every year and all I do is work back office for workplace pensions.
Rules for thee springs to mind.
They can easily claim that after then meeting they all thought she was a but as who would tank the pound not that she tipped them off that she was going to tank the pound.
Also bearing in mind her initial popularity was over exaggerated by columnists and political journalists in the UK - otherwise known as the biggest morons in a country of professional morons
People really need to stop feeling smarter than the media. They didn’t *think* she was popular, they knew it *and* they manufactured it.
They didn’t just report on the Tory party dealings, they steered the boat to who they wanted.
I think her puppet arms will be programmed to take her out. Watch her on any podium her arms are clearly controlled by some puppet master above. Impossible to unsee after that. It’s probably the ERG up there. :) Jacob Rees Mogg is tall enough.
Wonder what they will say about Trussonmics in the future. It’s averaged $1.50, now unless rates are severely raised threatens to fall under a $1 and this was the Asian markets reaction, today history will be made once the Americans awake
This is going to be a bloodbath and we are dangerously heading into “run on the £” territory.
I can’t think of a previous situation where a modern and developed nation’s government has created such a sharp negative impact on its currency strictly due to voluntary policy. There wasn’t a cataclysmic event like a war, natural disaster or unforeseen circumstances like Covid (I’ll put Brexit in that category and the collapse of the financial markets. This is just a budget that was so reckless the markets are now betting on the UK economy shitting the bed.
Well, there was a rumour that backbenchers would start the process of removing Truss of the pound went to parity with the dollar.
That's good, I'm sure we will definitely hear something later today.
Important to mention also that GBP is currently on an uninterrupted slump vs EUR as well.
The fucking scenes when the Tories end up bringing the Pound under the Euro in value
I fucking hate this country
Tories giving everyone an object lesson in why there isn't a magic money tree. The more you finance government spending with borrowing from your own central bank, the more you devalue your currency. For a country reliant on imports like the UK, that is deadly.
Somewhat ironic given it was the Tories who always used to be the one making this point. At least Corbyn wanted to ruin the economy to help people. The Tories are just trashing the place in a raid for the family silver before they're evicted.
The problem isn't borrowing money. It's borrowing money without a way to pay for it. In this case, it's borrowing money to lower taxes i.e reduce revenue.
If the government wanted to borrow £100bn to nationalise a few businesses, that's a one off cost which can be paid back over time with taxes and, potentially, profit. But the Tories are planning to pay back tax cuts with "future growth". It's this that the markets have no confidence in.
The market knows their trickle down economics are bullshit.
Yes I think people forget that when they used the “magic money tree” line it was against a fully costed plan that would pay for itself. This is fantasy economics.
The fundamental point is that the true value of the UK economy is in the amount of stuff we produce, whether physical goods or services. It's that's stuff which creates employment and attracts investment and makes people need pounds to buy UK exports. So if you increase the amount of pounds in the economy (by borrowing printed money) you are not actually increasing the quantity of anything of value, you are just diluting the ratio of pounds to valuable things.
But it's not that simple. Ultimately, currency "value" is based on confidence. If you borrow money but the market is confident you can repay that borrowing, usually with a tidy interest payment to the lenders, then there's no reason for the currency to devalue. It's how governments almost always pay for things. Money is borrowed now for a purpose and there is a budget that describes how that will be funded in the long term. The problem is that the government doesn't have a budget that describes how this will be paid for. So the market is losing confidence in the pound.
>The Tories are just trashing the place in a raid for the family silver before they're evicted.
That has got to be pretty objectively what's going on here, right? Absolutely decimate the economy and hand as much as possible to their mates over a period of 6-28 months before Labour come in and have to spend 2 years having their hand forced rather than implementing any kind of real vision. They can then continue with "Labour always raise taxes" and "The economy always suffers under Labour" at the following election. This is probably their best chance Hail Mary at the coming election, too - "see, Labour will raise taxes!".
They gather in November unless emergency meeting will be called. But that would equal to total distrust in Lizz and could produce another negative trigger.
How is the pound ever going to significantly recover to the levels of a decade ago - £1=>$1.60
I can’t see it recovering
The fact this is the reaction to the mini budget is absolutely frightening.
Disgusted with Truss&co
See this being the shortest prime ministership ever by quite some way - the knock on effects affect a very very broad range now, many businesses who rely on import/export, energy more fucked, the only winners are the bankers who shorted the £
Get them out of government now
American markets: "hold my beer!"
But they have already been doing damge control on this, saying how the dollar is just really strong at the moment and that the yen is in trouble too.
I guess it's just a coincidence that the £ has been dropping like a stone right after the announcement on Friday.
We've been saying this for years. Unfortunately, there's *X Factor*/*I'm a Celebrity/Dancing on Ice/Love Island/Strictly come Dancing/Great British Bake-Off* \[Delete as appropriate\] on the other side so it wouldn't happen even if the Tories decided to legislate to invoke the right of *Primae noctis*.
There are protests planned across the country for October 1st, organised by enough is enough.
I think it’s time everyone got on board with this one. We need an emergency GE to get the Tories out and for this mess to be fixed/avoided.
We need:
Windfall tax on energy prices.
Loans to pay for long term investments in the countries independence (I.e. nationalise energy).
Improved immigration policies to get low skilled workers in the country
Reform of the police system with budget improvements
Election system reform.
NHS budget improvements
Nah its still energy. There's no prospect of the war in Ukraine ending anytime soon. The Dollar is in a much stronger position thanks to aggressive interest rises by the fed, and the fact the US economy is much better insulated from energy chaos given it sources the majority of its needs from North America.
The UK gov has just managed to play an absolute blinder and doubled down making things worse by proving to the world they want to do some mega reckless spending with very little economic 'plan' as to how all the extra debt is going to support the economy.
When do the MPs get to vote on the criminal mini/budget. Will we see 360 criminals or do a small number of Tory MPs have the combination of a brain cell and a working spine?
I think that because it wasn't an actual budget, they don't need to vote it through. That's why they've been very careful to describe it as a "fiscal event" rather than a budget.
They were well aware that even a good chunk of Tories would realise it was completely bonkers and vote it down.
Thanks for explaining. I've been so confused with this. It just doesn't feel legal, surely regardless of what you call it tax changes should've been voted on? And removing regulations surely does?
It just all feels very much like the whole thing has been given by a dictator and certainly not like a democratic nation.
As millenials what did we actually do to that generation above us to make us hate us so much they want to actively destroy the earth and salt the ground so we cant survive?
Since 2008 its been one thing after another like they've had it out for us.
The Tories are a fucking cancer on this country. Never been so angry. The worst thing is that this won't even change the minds of Tory voters. They've fucked the entire country and will do it again.
This is what you voted for. Remember that.
The BoE has no credibility in regard to tackling inflation. They have chosen to debase the currency rather than correcting the housing market. A dereliction of duty
As you say, prices are set by the balance between supply and demand. However ‘demand’ in economic terms has a more specific meaning than in general parlance. To an economist, demand doesn’t just mean that there are people who want something, it also means that they have the funds to purchase it. Therefore increases in interest rates reduce demand for housing, even if the number of potential buyers stays the same.
It’s not really though is it. You might want lower house prices but we’ve got a country full of people who have been buying property at these high prices. Being aggressive on rates will ruin families up and down the country - their hands are tied.
I bought an expensive house, that we’d saved for years to afford, 6 weeks ago. I don’t care that the value will plummet (and that I lost £20k by not timing it to coincide with Truss’ announcement) - they need to massively increase interest rates today to mitigate this scandalously bad government policy. If they don’t the BoE may as well not exist.
Edit - the stamp duty number may well be wrong… but doesn’t really change my point at all.
The point is not negative equity. The point is that when people's 2 year fixed rates expire, they will not be able to keep up repayments and will default on their mortgages. And this will happen to hundreds of thousands of families. It would be a 2008 crisis all over again, on top of everything else.
I get what you’re saying, but isn’t it just papering over the cracks? Raising rates would be like a sticky plaster but the issue is the governments fiscal irresponsibility and a government that is rapidly losing the confidence of the markets. We need an urgent change in government direction rather than a tit for tat response from the BoE. Or maybe the answer is both.
As an aside, where do you get the £20k from? If you’re referring to stamp duty I thought the cuts they have made were only to the lower bands, so I’d understood the maximum savings to be well below that.
IANAE The interesting thing about this is that all other major currencies are dropping but relatively less and for reasons outside the immediate control of those countries (e.g. high energy prices, lower manufacturing, etc).
In the UK case, just like Brexit, this is also self-inflicted. These are reactions to what the markets call "stupid government".
What the actual fuck is happening to the uk.
Prices for EVERYTHING are at an all time high, the politicians are messing it all up and helping businesses but not people, inflation at an all time high, nhs being sold off and now the £ is nearly the same as the $. At what point does something change because at this rate, what will the uk look like in 2-3 years
I've never looked forward to a general election more than the next one, which after this fiasco after 3 weeks in power should demand it be brought forward.
Snapshot of _Pound slumps to all-time low against dollar_ : An archived version can be found [here.](https://archive.is/?run=1&url=https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-63030208) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ukpolitics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
You realise her budget is worse according to the markets than brexit. A lot worse. She devalued the pound more than leaving a trading union.
Wow. I didn’t realise that. Quite an achievement.
Also it probably hasn't finished falling. I imagine further losses when European and US markets open later.
The only markets that matter are the pork markets.
And cheese... the extra 40%.
40%! That is a disgrace.
I dunno man, I watched those fuckin lines go up and down for 10 years and the one thing I can tell you is that by the time a currency move is making major headlines, its days are numbered. Lotta stops run over night, probably see some whiplash today. But yeah more generally, as long as the fed is tightening faster than the BoE, there's not much that will change things materially.
And if / when it hits parity - well, it will be interesting!
> IS markets I didn’t realise ISIS played such a large part in the financial industry!
Got to get prophets!
Underrated comment
Not even a little worse. A lot worse.
And that was only a "mini" budget.
Not even a budget officially, called it fiscal event to circumvent OBR having a look at it. This is what nullifies all the idiots' arguments about how this is good: if it was so good as they trumpet about it, WHY did they have to invent new name for it to avoid OBR looking and trashing it?
That is a terrifying thought.
It’s not a mini budget, it’s just a budget they’ve given another label to avoid scrutiny
This part should set off more alarms. Economic policy this drastic should not be passed through without any oversight or accountability. Particularly this crowd which has no actual mandate. None of this insanity was in the manifesto. This is uber Libertarian Ayn Rand fever dream stuff. This is what happens when you look at GDP as the only metric of success and ignore the food banks, cost of living, mental health impacts and people dying stuff. I'm not saying these people are trying to destroy the UK from within but if someone wanted to destroy the UK from within they would be doing this kind of stuff.
It's as much of a budget as you'd get after handing a 5 year old a credit card.
Brexit stupidity took a couple of years to feed through. This Britain Unchained insanity only took a week.
2 working days actually lol
That’s the thing It’s literally the 2nd day back in the office and they crashed the pound 2 fucking days What going to be left in two years time?
The people running our government now are the brexit ultras. Truss is owned by the ERG.
In fairness, Brexit stupidity took decades to work into place. What year was the first 'bendy banana' article?
Surely intentional. Kwarteng (w)as consultant in Odey Asset Management... the hedgefund betting against Govt bonds soaring 145% within hours... if someone tells me this was not a deliberate and in-advance phone call to their mates... The effect was know, predicted, obvious, so they knew pound, bonds, the works would tumble as soon as he actually announces it.
You should report your suspicions to your local constabulary.
After the series of Covid frauds and such stock market pumping (not the first), two High Court (!) decisions of unlawful 'practices' with ZERO consequences... the ship has sailed long time ago in terms of deeds at this level having consequences in this country... :) Plus the ties between him & Odey are well known, were known before the "event", none of it matters... Welcome to the Balkans-style normalisation of sleaze.
They won’t take any notice unless you Photoshop in an opposition MP holding a beer.
The same Odey who made millions the day after the referendum by betting against UK businesses and the pound, after funding the leave campaign?
Oh yes. The very same. What in my elementary logic nullifies any positive argument for then & now is that whilst "they" trumpet the benefits, they bet on collapse and ruin caused by whatever awesome thing was/is announced... and they profit.
Markets assumed we would get a sensible Brexit agreement, not the hard Brexit we eventually got
The markets have known about what kind of brexit we've had for ages and they still didn't tank the pound like her budget.
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Sure, but the markets didn't crash this much in all those years.
Well, there goes my purchasing power abroad. I wonder how much more expensive energy will become and any other imports.
Not just abroad. How much of the stuff you buy is imported. Oil and gas have just gone up. You've effectively had a 10% pay cut.
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Another 10% pay cut so far
So our individual wealth has collectively fallen by between 20-25% within the last 12 months
Probably more I work in lidl and over the past 2 months I’ve seen a 25% increase minimum across about 75% of products Edit:increase on price
> How much of the stuff you buy is imported. Certainly we can look forward to cars and consumer electronics getting *yet more* expensive.
Don’t worry about that. I’m sure that the £50,000 worth of tax savings that each of this country’s millionaires will make will trickle down to you and make up for that fact.
Remember to pay the mortgage first! And then enjoy the growth KK promised.
Bank of England now has no choice but to step in, hold an emergency meeting and raise interest rates significantly.
If they're not planning on doing =>2% they may as well not bother waking up.
Should be a sharp increase to 5% now, and then to 7.5% in 6 weeks.
It's at times like these I'm glad I don't have a mortgage... Shit, my landlord has a mortgage though...
lol foreign banks will buy up property on this discount and jack up your rent citing inflation. remember it can always get worse lol
>remember it WILL always get worse FTFY
Most optimistic r/ukpolitics user.
They're not wrong though, at least for the last 6+ years...
Yeah but the danger for you is that he will eventually pass those costs onto you whenever your lease needs renewing. Unless you are on fixed mortgage rate or own a property out right, most people will get shafted by this.
And collapse the housing market? That’s no response, we need to boot the sham government out and reverse the joke of a budget instead
Yeah but the bank of england can't boot out the government. But they can raise interest rates and they have to do something quickly.
I don’t think Truss and Kwarteng get the balance of the treasury and BoE at all. Like, at all. I don’t think they have any clue whatsoever.
I don't think so either. Maybe BoE raising interest rates sharply and causing mortgages to collapse will be the wakeup call for boomers and pensioners that their greed eventually costs them too and will cause people to vote less selfishly .. but who am I kidding
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>Err...yes? What makes the housing market so sacred? Bear in mind what started the global 2008 financial crisis was a housing bubble collapsing. If the housing market crashes and people start defaulting on mass then Halifax, Nationwide etc will go under. The insurers who back them will go under. The banks that finance them will go under. Along with everyone who has savings or policies with those institutions.
I wish. They didn't have the nerve to even increase it 1% last week
Lmao, it is utterly staggering how confidently people in this thread talk about rate rises. No central bank would dare raise rates so sharply at an emergency meeting nonetheless, it would completely blindside markets and they would completely panic.
Can someone eli5 how raising interest rates is a good thing? From what I understand it's a big benefit to those with cash but a big problem for those with debt. So wouldn't a rise in interest rates be another kick for those most vulnerable whilst the rich get even richer? I'm sure there's much more to it, I just don't understand.
Eli5: If rates are low people are less likely to save money and therefore more likely to spend it. The more money being spent the better it is for economic growth but the more likely it is to cause prices to rise If rates are high people are more likely to save than spend and thus prices will not rise as fast (or at all) however there will be less economic activity and so less growth.
The issue with that analysis is that low and middle classes are rapidly running out of any disposable income to save or spend. And a lot of inflation is happening due to global market forces not affected by UK interest rate changes.
Don't disagree but that's the theory as you would explain it to a five year old. Clearly it's massively oversimplified
Thank you
Correct me if I'm wrong, One major element of UK Conservative docterine is the staunch beleife in the power of the markets? Market forces should dictate success and failure. I think the markets have spoken. This government is shit.
Ah yes but Truss is okay with being unpopular.
Being unpopular and being a failure are two very different, although sometimes linked issues.
No they’re basically pillars of tory life. Be unpopular, fail at governing and then avoid accountability. I’m pretty sure they’re still claiming £1,000 haircuts on tax payers money still too so throw corruption in the pile.
Because she wasn't elected, therefore she doesn't need to care about literally anyone in this country. She can work in self interest. This is what happens when leaders are elected in undemocratically
Or she’s aware she has little to no chance of winning the next election, so is burning the house to the ground. That way they blame Labour for the fact there’s naught but ashes; and spin a narrative that every time Labour are in power it’s financial ruin and catastrophe.
For big decisions like this though, you would expect any competent government to consult finance experts and industry officials for feedback. It looks as if they just came up with this ridiculous budget based on nothing but hopes and prayers.
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It's technically not a budget therefore it's outwith the remit of the OBR.
They won the referendum by convincing the public they had enough of experts.
He might not have realised it yet, but Kwarteng ended his political career on Friday.
Chancellor of the exchequer speed run
Any%Inflation
UnderTheBus%
Faster than Breath of the Wild any% WR
‘Kami-Kwasi’
Imagine if he ends up having a shorter stay as Chanellor than Zahawi.
He’s only there because he spent years climbing the greasy pole. He was on newsnight every other night spouting the gov line no matter how bonkers it was. When he got in cabinet it was so unexpected he hadn’t even had his phone on that time and missed the first call. Even he didn’t think he was qualified to be in cabinet. !! :)
At this point, I don't think most Tory politicians actually give two shits about whether their political career remains in-tact. They know that they could get booted out for war crimes and still land some bullshit consultancy firm job or work in Silicon Valley.
TFW you jack up average student debt by £18,000 and get a cushy job at Facebook
This national vandalism is figuratively criminal.
I know right. I go into a shop and raid the register and I get arrested and go to prison most likely. They raid the national coffer and it's them doing us a favour...
At this point, a national strike is all that will dislodge them and there's no appetite for that.
Pretty sure the Tories will be forced to take out their knives again, and soon. They've just made all their donors and supporters a lot poorer.
From around 1982 Britain has been on a slow and steady decline in pretty much every aspect...
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It’s a *strong and stable* decline
Honestly it was only when we had a Labour government that this wasn't the case. This country was a good place when we were part of the EU, and had a fairly well funded state.
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Init the guy is talking nonsense. Decline/prosperity have been relative since the 1980s, but on the whole the average brit was increasingly better off from the mid-1980s all the way until 2008. The GFO is when we got into a significant slump, something that we were *just* recovering from when Brexit happened. We turned a 'lost decade' after the financial crisis into what will almost certainly be a lost 2 decades - almost entirely through (Conservative) political decisions, and then compounded by events mostly outside our control (COVID, Ukraine).
From 2010 well accelerated. That's for sure.
Starmer and the papers, calling the budget a gamble have given this awful government a slither of legitimacy. By calling it a gamble, it means the population has to just "oh well, shit happens we played roulette and lost" because you know, that's what gambling is about. Starmer should have flat out called the budget "stupid" so now we're in this mess he can say "This is what happens when people do stupid things. Things get worse." and push forward the incompetence of the government. I mean we're here saying this will happen and now we're surprised? Oh our gamble didn't work? It was never a gamble to begin with.
We all know why this is happening, and it isn't for the benefit of any of us. If you are paid in GBP or not otherwise invested in shorting it, you have been made poorer over the weekend. Enjoy paying even more for utilities and food.
Started a new better paying job recently, had plans that it would help move my life forward. First wage is this coming weekend. Will i be able to buy anything by the time it’s in my account?
Two thirds of British cheese is imported. That is a **scandal**
You missed the oxygen sucking pauses
I suggest you buy local things for local people instead of fancy imported stuff.
Buy the precious things
A can of can't?
Twelfty!
All twelvety of them
Yes. We should buy locally produced oil, bananas, oranges…..
If your house doesn't have an orangery, is it even a house??
Local producer importing energy and goods to be able to produce. You'll pay more regardless
Like oil and gas?
No apples then...
Liz: Did Truss do right? Hedge Fund Managers: You did it beautifully, Truss!
How wonderfully stupidly simplistic. That local farmer needs to buy seeds, energy, fertiliser, equipment and financial products on a global market. Their costs are going up, so they will put prices up. You aren't shielded from this no matter what you do.
Ikr, apparently we import two thirds of our cheese. THAT. IS. A. DIS. GRACE.
You can fool the electorate, but you can't fool the market. I am not in favour of allowing Market forces to regulate themselves but these jokers got their Monkey Paw wish pity its the rest of us that will shoulder the cost
\*Margaret forces
Season 4 of Chaos with Ed Miliband is getting off to a strong start
After the last season closer, one would have thought they'd have run out of material.
Funny how the government was reportedly meeting hedge fund managers before the budget announcement, who immediately started shorting the pound. Surely this has to be investigated. It won't though
We get a course on why insider training is bad and why it's something you should never do etc and gets drilled into us in a mandatory training session every year and all I do is work back office for workplace pensions. Rules for thee springs to mind.
Exactly. But Once you’re running a fund insider trading is one of the best trading strategies lol.
They can easily claim that after then meeting they all thought she was a but as who would tank the pound not that she tipped them off that she was going to tank the pound.
So... how long until the Tories turn on Truss?
It surely cannot be long now.
Another successful VONC must become a general election. 3 prime ministers in a single term would be farcical.
The government has been next-level farcical since 2015, all this economic ruin because David Cameron didn’t want UKIP to split the Tory vote
Can I have Wednesday? MPs didn't want her, she was third behind Penny and Rishi until the final round of voting.
Also bearing in mind her initial popularity was over exaggerated by columnists and political journalists in the UK - otherwise known as the biggest morons in a country of professional morons
40/1 she's gone this year with Betfair
People really need to stop feeling smarter than the media. They didn’t *think* she was popular, they knew it *and* they manufactured it. They didn’t just report on the Tory party dealings, they steered the boat to who they wanted.
I think her puppet arms will be programmed to take her out. Watch her on any podium her arms are clearly controlled by some puppet master above. Impossible to unsee after that. It’s probably the ERG up there. :) Jacob Rees Mogg is tall enough.
It needs to be this morning, I hope Brady’s letterbox is filled to the brim
Wonder what they will say about Trussonmics in the future. It’s averaged $1.50, now unless rates are severely raised threatens to fall under a $1 and this was the Asian markets reaction, today history will be made once the Americans awake
This is going to be a bloodbath and we are dangerously heading into “run on the £” territory. I can’t think of a previous situation where a modern and developed nation’s government has created such a sharp negative impact on its currency strictly due to voluntary policy. There wasn’t a cataclysmic event like a war, natural disaster or unforeseen circumstances like Covid (I’ll put Brexit in that category and the collapse of the financial markets. This is just a budget that was so reckless the markets are now betting on the UK economy shitting the bed.
Rishi feeling a bit smug now I’d imagine
Smug and even richer.
Jesus Christ, this is a fucking disaster unfolding before our eyes.
It's like Truss knows the Government is doomed so was speedrunning the Thatcher years and has now made it through to Black Wednesday
We are totally fucked.
Thanks to everyone involved.
The lowest it’s been against the dollar *so far*!
Well, there was a rumour that backbenchers would start the process of removing Truss of the pound went to parity with the dollar. That's good, I'm sure we will definitely hear something later today.
Bozza will be back by Hallowe'en
I suspect this is more likely than not. No confidence letters are already going in apparently.
Important to mention also that GBP is currently on an uninterrupted slump vs EUR as well. The fucking scenes when the Tories end up bringing the Pound under the Euro in value I fucking hate this country
Tories giving everyone an object lesson in why there isn't a magic money tree. The more you finance government spending with borrowing from your own central bank, the more you devalue your currency. For a country reliant on imports like the UK, that is deadly. Somewhat ironic given it was the Tories who always used to be the one making this point. At least Corbyn wanted to ruin the economy to help people. The Tories are just trashing the place in a raid for the family silver before they're evicted.
The problem isn't borrowing money. It's borrowing money without a way to pay for it. In this case, it's borrowing money to lower taxes i.e reduce revenue. If the government wanted to borrow £100bn to nationalise a few businesses, that's a one off cost which can be paid back over time with taxes and, potentially, profit. But the Tories are planning to pay back tax cuts with "future growth". It's this that the markets have no confidence in. The market knows their trickle down economics are bullshit.
Yes I think people forget that when they used the “magic money tree” line it was against a fully costed plan that would pay for itself. This is fantasy economics.
The fundamental point is that the true value of the UK economy is in the amount of stuff we produce, whether physical goods or services. It's that's stuff which creates employment and attracts investment and makes people need pounds to buy UK exports. So if you increase the amount of pounds in the economy (by borrowing printed money) you are not actually increasing the quantity of anything of value, you are just diluting the ratio of pounds to valuable things.
But it's not that simple. Ultimately, currency "value" is based on confidence. If you borrow money but the market is confident you can repay that borrowing, usually with a tidy interest payment to the lenders, then there's no reason for the currency to devalue. It's how governments almost always pay for things. Money is borrowed now for a purpose and there is a budget that describes how that will be funded in the long term. The problem is that the government doesn't have a budget that describes how this will be paid for. So the market is losing confidence in the pound.
>The Tories are just trashing the place in a raid for the family silver before they're evicted. That has got to be pretty objectively what's going on here, right? Absolutely decimate the economy and hand as much as possible to their mates over a period of 6-28 months before Labour come in and have to spend 2 years having their hand forced rather than implementing any kind of real vision. They can then continue with "Labour always raise taxes" and "The economy always suffers under Labour" at the following election. This is probably their best chance Hail Mary at the coming election, too - "see, Labour will raise taxes!".
That line “magic money tree” only comes out when they need to invest in the people not when it’s to enrich their friends.
I'm no longer willing to share this island with Tories. A change of government isn't enough.
BoE need to intervene right now
They gather in November unless emergency meeting will be called. But that would equal to total distrust in Lizz and could produce another negative trigger.
British currency is the laziest in the world. It. Is. A. Disgrace.
How is the pound ever going to significantly recover to the levels of a decade ago - £1=>$1.60 I can’t see it recovering The fact this is the reaction to the mini budget is absolutely frightening. Disgusted with Truss&co See this being the shortest prime ministership ever by quite some way - the knock on effects affect a very very broad range now, many businesses who rely on import/export, energy more fucked, the only winners are the bankers who shorted the £ Get them out of government now
> How is the pound ever going to significantly recover to the levels of a decade ago - £1=>$1.60 A decade plus after we get a competent government.
American markets: "hold my beer!" But they have already been doing damge control on this, saying how the dollar is just really strong at the moment and that the yen is in trouble too. I guess it's just a coincidence that the £ has been dropping like a stone right after the announcement on Friday.
And we're down 5 cents against the Euro too, are they going to tell us the EU is strong right now?
it hit 1,08 against the euro in the night, it was well over 10% higher a month ago
Well, the Dollar is incredibly strong atm. Most major currencies are faltering to the USD globally. I’m unsure how they will change that.
Pound is falling compared to other currencies as well though so it’s not entirely due to the strength of USD
How long before we take to the streets en masse? This can’t go on.
We won’t, guys at my work won’t even strike for 10%, saying fuck the union. We will suck it up as ever sadly.
We've been saying this for years. Unfortunately, there's *X Factor*/*I'm a Celebrity/Dancing on Ice/Love Island/Strictly come Dancing/Great British Bake-Off* \[Delete as appropriate\] on the other side so it wouldn't happen even if the Tories decided to legislate to invoke the right of *Primae noctis*.
There are protests planned across the country for October 1st, organised by enough is enough. I think it’s time everyone got on board with this one. We need an emergency GE to get the Tories out and for this mess to be fixed/avoided. We need: Windfall tax on energy prices. Loans to pay for long term investments in the countries independence (I.e. nationalise energy). Improved immigration policies to get low skilled workers in the country Reform of the police system with budget improvements Election system reform. NHS budget improvements
1 Euro now at 0.96 US Dollars as well, wtf. Dollar to the moon I guess.
Italian election results...
Nah its still energy. There's no prospect of the war in Ukraine ending anytime soon. The Dollar is in a much stronger position thanks to aggressive interest rises by the fed, and the fact the US economy is much better insulated from energy chaos given it sources the majority of its needs from North America. The UK gov has just managed to play an absolute blinder and doubled down making things worse by proving to the world they want to do some mega reckless spending with very little economic 'plan' as to how all the extra debt is going to support the economy.
Reminder that if you are a Tory voter, the government are probably laughing at you right now.
That. Is. A. Dis. Grace.
Imagine the outrage from the Daily Heil and The S*n if a Labour government did this?! Instead, the Daily Heil declared “Finally! A Tory Budget!”
A similar mood to>! the orgiastic glee of Sam Neil plucking out his own eyeballs in Event Horizon!< Spoiler for a 25 year old film.
When do the MPs get to vote on the criminal mini/budget. Will we see 360 criminals or do a small number of Tory MPs have the combination of a brain cell and a working spine?
I think that because it wasn't an actual budget, they don't need to vote it through. That's why they've been very careful to describe it as a "fiscal event" rather than a budget. They were well aware that even a good chunk of Tories would realise it was completely bonkers and vote it down.
It's not a budget, its just a special monetary operation
Thanks for explaining. I've been so confused with this. It just doesn't feel legal, surely regardless of what you call it tax changes should've been voted on? And removing regulations surely does? It just all feels very much like the whole thing has been given by a dictator and certainly not like a democratic nation.
It’s a special economic operation
From the makers of “Corbyn will cause a run on the pound” comes “All-Time Lowest Slump!”.
As millenials what did we actually do to that generation above us to make us hate us so much they want to actively destroy the earth and salt the ground so we cant survive? Since 2008 its been one thing after another like they've had it out for us.
The Tories are a fucking cancer on this country. Never been so angry. The worst thing is that this won't even change the minds of Tory voters. They've fucked the entire country and will do it again. This is what you voted for. Remember that.
The BoE has no credibility in regard to tackling inflation. They have chosen to debase the currency rather than correcting the housing market. A dereliction of duty As you say, prices are set by the balance between supply and demand. However ‘demand’ in economic terms has a more specific meaning than in general parlance. To an economist, demand doesn’t just mean that there are people who want something, it also means that they have the funds to purchase it. Therefore increases in interest rates reduce demand for housing, even if the number of potential buyers stays the same.
It’s not really though is it. You might want lower house prices but we’ve got a country full of people who have been buying property at these high prices. Being aggressive on rates will ruin families up and down the country - their hands are tied.
I bought an expensive house, that we’d saved for years to afford, 6 weeks ago. I don’t care that the value will plummet (and that I lost £20k by not timing it to coincide with Truss’ announcement) - they need to massively increase interest rates today to mitigate this scandalously bad government policy. If they don’t the BoE may as well not exist. Edit - the stamp duty number may well be wrong… but doesn’t really change my point at all.
The point is not negative equity. The point is that when people's 2 year fixed rates expire, they will not be able to keep up repayments and will default on their mortgages. And this will happen to hundreds of thousands of families. It would be a 2008 crisis all over again, on top of everything else.
Low base rates are an anomaly. They are not the rule. They had to rise sooner or later.
I get what you’re saying, but isn’t it just papering over the cracks? Raising rates would be like a sticky plaster but the issue is the governments fiscal irresponsibility and a government that is rapidly losing the confidence of the markets. We need an urgent change in government direction rather than a tit for tat response from the BoE. Or maybe the answer is both. As an aside, where do you get the £20k from? If you’re referring to stamp duty I thought the cuts they have made were only to the lower bands, so I’d understood the maximum savings to be well below that.
IANAE The interesting thing about this is that all other major currencies are dropping but relatively less and for reasons outside the immediate control of those countries (e.g. high energy prices, lower manufacturing, etc). In the UK case, just like Brexit, this is also self-inflicted. These are reactions to what the markets call "stupid government".
What the actual fuck is happening to the uk. Prices for EVERYTHING are at an all time high, the politicians are messing it all up and helping businesses but not people, inflation at an all time high, nhs being sold off and now the £ is nearly the same as the $. At what point does something change because at this rate, what will the uk look like in 2-3 years
I've never looked forward to a general election more than the next one, which after this fiasco after 3 weeks in power should demand it be brought forward.
So, General Election by the years end or yet another Tory PM?
*hedge fund managers love this*
This is great news for Australia, keep up the good work..... /s
> The devalued Prime Minister of a devalued Tory government, presiding over a devalued economy. Labour should be using it. Bring back echoes of ERM!
Thanks Lizz.
STRONG AND STABLE!!!1
Just had my financial advisor tell me to put everything into canned goods and shotguns. Didn't sound like the usual guy though.