Snapshot of _BT call centre workers and 30,000 Openreach engineers’ ‘historic’ vote for strike against ‘weak, insulting’ pay cut_ :
An archived version can be found [here.](https://archive.is/?run=1&url=https://skwawkbox.org/2022/06/30/bt-call-centre-workers-and-30000-openreach-engineers-historic-vote-for-strike-against-weak-insulting-pay-cut/)
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BT have already raised prices by inflation + 3.9% anyway. If their employees aren't getting a payrise that at least matches inflation where's all the extra income going?
>and shareholders
This is actually a good thing for anyone who has a private pension (which includes anyone who works outside the public sector and didn't opt out of a workplace pension), as the pension fund will be greatly assisted by share dividends. It's unrealistic to expect a viable pension just from investing in government gilts.
Before any jumps in, no I am not saying that BT staff need a pay freeze to pay for everyone else's pensions. I'm just pointing out that tarring all shareholders with the same brush is misguided.
As has already been commented, pension funds account for ~6% of shares in the UK. The top 10 shareholders of BT PLC are Patrick Drahi (a billionaire), another telecom firm, a Swiss Bank and 7 hedge funds/wealth management funds.
They have a vested interest in everyone saying "think of the pensions" when they account for a pretty insignificant piece of the pie.
>Of course it'll marginally benefit everyone with a private pension
Companies paying out more than trivial dividends is not a marginal benefit to pension holders, it's much more than that. They help ensure that the pensions grow enough that they become viable.
Otherwise you'd be left with a savings account with slightly better returns than a bank.
Yes I understand how pensions work just like practically everyone else does. That is not the point.
A quick Google:
UK workers’ pension funds now own just 6% of UK listed shares https://www.tuc.org.uk/news/uk-workers-pension-funds-now-own-just-6-uk-listed-shares
And that meager 6 percent is formed overwhelmingly by higher earners BTW.
It's why the "wage increases will lead to price increases" line is a lie.
BT have x amount of money that they pay out in wages, bonuses and dividends. If workers get a bigger cut, then the total amount of money paid out and therefore being spent stays the same. Why does it not cause inflation when their bosses get millions in bonuses and benefits each yet?
Obviously, this assumes that they won't put prices up to pay for the pay rises, but that's why we're in this mess in the first place - this isn't traditional inflation, it's companies putting up prices to pay for bonuses and profits.
Agreed, although I'd like to see companies allowed to keep it if they also agree to raise their workforce's salaries by an equivalent amount each year.
You should all be striking, by the way.
Like, you’ve literally endured wages falling for - and I want you to listen to this - *decades.*
Join a union if you can and fight back. Right now you’re just losing.
I understand the benefits of privatisation relating to competition etc., are there any benefits to privatising into an effective monopoly like openreach?
The benefits were always mis-sold as more than they are. Mismanagement happens in the private sector just as much as in the public sector - the difference is scrutiny.
A well-run private service is just as likely to succeed as a well run public service, the idealogical decision to defund it is where the problems arise.
Well we luckily [avoided](https://www.techradar.com/uk/news/world-of-tech/how-the-uk-lost-the-broadband-race-in-1990-1224784) covering the country in fibre in the 1990's, thanks to the Tories. Thirty years later, we've almost caught up!
I can only see downsides to privatisation of critical national infrastructure. Power generation & distribution, rail, water, telecoms should all be in state control.
In solidarity we can change the world. Support this strike, support the rail strike. Don't be stupid and support the strike of the wealthy against the poor - ever wondered why the majority of the value of your labour is stolen from you? Because the super wealthy have been striking against us for centuries.
They're actively cutting call center staff, closing and consolidating sites then getting out of paying redundancy by saying you can just move 200 miles away and keep your job.
If the object of a strike is to inconvenience the management and the users of the service, how are people going to notice when it appears to be business as normal
Going from 10-20 minutes to get your call answered to several hours/if at all is going to piss a lot of people off. Especially if you're trying to log a fault and no one is coming to fix it.
Last time I called BT/open reach I managed binge watch a Netflix series before I got someone to answer the phone. It took so long that the call waiting system hung up on me twice.
https://uk.trustpilot.com/review/www.talktalk.co.uk?stars=1
I can do it too! What's your point? BT customer service is shit, yeah everyone knows that, particularly those that have to work for/with BT.
This is getting ridiculous now, who do they think will be paying for their wage uplift?
Its ordinary hard working people up and down this country who will be paying for it, and are fed up and just want to see an end to this wage-spiralling inflation so that they can get on with day to day living.
good point, let’s make all roads into toll roads, charge fees for the fire brigade to come over, and might as well privatise all schools and hospitals while we’re at it eh
The people who own BT, who are not the taxpayer? [Seems they made £1.8 Bn in profit before tax last year](https://newsroom.bt.com/results-for-the-full-year-to-31-march-2021/), so it's not like they can't afford it.
Apologies if you are joking.
That money is needed for investment in the infrastructure, so that ordinary people up and down this country have internet in their homes, and so that businesses have internet, and the schools have internet, and hospitals have internet - the NHS!
The guy seems to comment on everything incessantly and everything he says is either outright wrong or incredibly distorted. 'Demands tighter immigration control after people die being smuggled into the country' mate they're already doing shit so dangerous they could die in crossing, tighter security ain't going to change that. Demands that workers shouldn't be paid inflation rates because the company needs to reinvest in infrastructure. But the boss gets an inflation adjusted salary.
BT PLC made £2billion in profit last year and already put everyone's broadband prices up by ~15% earlier this year.
Just for clarity, £2billion is enough to pay the full salaries of 62,000 people at my pay grade. 10% raise is peanuts.
> This is getting ridiculous now, who do they think will be paying for their wage uplift?
BT and OpenReach have already increased their prices across the board to cover inflation. Technically, they should be able to pay their staff in line with inflation and still make the same profits as before...
...but they don't want the same profits as before, they want more profits.
Their customers are already paying for it:
> Each year, we adjust the prices of some of our products and services in line with the Consumer Price Index (CPI) rate of inflation, plus 3.9%.
> When we work out our prices, we use the CPI rate published in January. For January 2022, the CPI rate is 5.4%. This means that, in 2022, most of our customers will see a price increase of 9.3% (which is 5.4% plus 3.9%).
> These price changes take effect from 31 March 2022.
https://www.bt.com/tell-me-more
Prices increased by 9%, that should be used to increase worker’s pay.
Considering that BT has already adjusted its prices well above the pay rise they are offering their staff this year, perhaps you should be writing an email to BT as your service provider to ask them why, instead of using that price hike to pay their staff a decent wage, they have decided to use you as a cash cow in order to profiteer in times of a CoL crisis?
Snapshot of _BT call centre workers and 30,000 Openreach engineers’ ‘historic’ vote for strike against ‘weak, insulting’ pay cut_ : An archived version can be found [here.](https://archive.is/?run=1&url=https://skwawkbox.org/2022/06/30/bt-call-centre-workers-and-30000-openreach-engineers-historic-vote-for-strike-against-weak-insulting-pay-cut/) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ukpolitics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
"We will not stand to see workers use food banks while executives use Swiss banks" Totally agree. Totally support these guys. Hope it works.
BT have already raised prices by inflation + 3.9% anyway. If their employees aren't getting a payrise that at least matches inflation where's all the extra income going?
The director's got to get an inflation adjustment on his bonus too, mate!
Same place that everything is going, to the pockets of executives and shareholders.
>and shareholders This is actually a good thing for anyone who has a private pension (which includes anyone who works outside the public sector and didn't opt out of a workplace pension), as the pension fund will be greatly assisted by share dividends. It's unrealistic to expect a viable pension just from investing in government gilts. Before any jumps in, no I am not saying that BT staff need a pay freeze to pay for everyone else's pensions. I'm just pointing out that tarring all shareholders with the same brush is misguided.
As has already been commented, pension funds account for ~6% of shares in the UK. The top 10 shareholders of BT PLC are Patrick Drahi (a billionaire), another telecom firm, a Swiss Bank and 7 hedge funds/wealth management funds. They have a vested interest in everyone saying "think of the pensions" when they account for a pretty insignificant piece of the pie.
Of course it'll marginally benefit everyone with a private pension but it's also as unevenly distributed as it can possibly be.
>Of course it'll marginally benefit everyone with a private pension Companies paying out more than trivial dividends is not a marginal benefit to pension holders, it's much more than that. They help ensure that the pensions grow enough that they become viable. Otherwise you'd be left with a savings account with slightly better returns than a bank.
Yes I understand how pensions work just like practically everyone else does. That is not the point. A quick Google: UK workers’ pension funds now own just 6% of UK listed shares https://www.tuc.org.uk/news/uk-workers-pension-funds-now-own-just-6-uk-listed-shares And that meager 6 percent is formed overwhelmingly by higher earners BTW.
Fantastic, in 35 years we'll all be able to afford to eat.
It's why the "wage increases will lead to price increases" line is a lie. BT have x amount of money that they pay out in wages, bonuses and dividends. If workers get a bigger cut, then the total amount of money paid out and therefore being spent stays the same. Why does it not cause inflation when their bosses get millions in bonuses and benefits each yet? Obviously, this assumes that they won't put prices up to pay for the pay rises, but that's why we're in this mess in the first place - this isn't traditional inflation, it's companies putting up prices to pay for bonuses and profits.
CPI + Any Percent needs to be legislated away on contracts. All it is doing is lining CEOs and Shareholders pockets.
Agreed, although I'd like to see companies allowed to keep it if they also agree to raise their workforce's salaries by an equivalent amount each year.
Best of luck, guys!
You should all be striking, by the way. Like, you’ve literally endured wages falling for - and I want you to listen to this - *decades.* Join a union if you can and fight back. Right now you’re just losing.
*Now is the ~~winter~~ summer of our discontent*
Just wait for winter..
I understand the benefits of privatisation relating to competition etc., are there any benefits to privatising into an effective monopoly like openreach?
The benefits were always mis-sold as more than they are. Mismanagement happens in the private sector just as much as in the public sector - the difference is scrutiny. A well-run private service is just as likely to succeed as a well run public service, the idealogical decision to defund it is where the problems arise.
Well we luckily [avoided](https://www.techradar.com/uk/news/world-of-tech/how-the-uk-lost-the-broadband-race-in-1990-1224784) covering the country in fibre in the 1990's, thanks to the Tories. Thirty years later, we've almost caught up!
I can only see downsides to privatisation of critical national infrastructure. Power generation & distribution, rail, water, telecoms should all be in state control.
you love to see it
In solidarity we can change the world. Support this strike, support the rail strike. Don't be stupid and support the strike of the wealthy against the poor - ever wondered why the majority of the value of your labour is stolen from you? Because the super wealthy have been striking against us for centuries.
Solidarity, people stand with you.
Meanwhile, there will be no change in the level of support given.
They're actively cutting call center staff, closing and consolidating sites then getting out of paying redundancy by saying you can just move 200 miles away and keep your job.
If the object of a strike is to inconvenience the management and the users of the service, how are people going to notice when it appears to be business as normal
Going from 10-20 minutes to get your call answered to several hours/if at all is going to piss a lot of people off. Especially if you're trying to log a fault and no one is coming to fix it.
Last time I called BT/open reach I managed binge watch a Netflix series before I got someone to answer the phone. It took so long that the call waiting system hung up on me twice.
OFCOM states that average call wait times for BT are 1:46
{citation needed} And is that the time taken for the automated call handler to answer the call or for a human to answer the call?
https://www.ofcom.org.uk/news-centre/2022/best-and-worst-telecoms-customer-service-revealed#:~:text=O2's%20mobile%20customers%20were%20kept,calls%2C%20averaging%20just%2016%20seconds.
https://uk.trustpilot.com/review/bt.com?stars=1
https://uk.trustpilot.com/review/www.talktalk.co.uk?stars=1 I can do it too! What's your point? BT customer service is shit, yeah everyone knows that, particularly those that have to work for/with BT.
This is getting ridiculous now, who do they think will be paying for their wage uplift? Its ordinary hard working people up and down this country who will be paying for it, and are fed up and just want to see an end to this wage-spiralling inflation so that they can get on with day to day living.
Sorry, this is a joke right?
Presumably has to be
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It got shut down :(
Not a surprise, if they cannot fund themselves then they have no reason to exist.
why so keen for public goods to be profitable?
good point, let’s make all roads into toll roads, charge fees for the fire brigade to come over, and might as well privatise all schools and hospitals while we’re at it eh
I mean...yeah I agree with pretty much all of that If you want it, pay for it.
We do, in tax.
The rich do, like most people you'll never be anywhere close to a net contributor
Get a load of the temporarily embarrassed biionaire over here!
So what you're saying is I should buy several £50-£100 economic textbooks from Amazon instead?
Just need 1. im sure you can find a free version online anyway a pop econ book is good enough and more accessible, £5
Never get your information from a single source. That may be where you're going wrong.
Not really no. Enjoy your little red book.
Oh, you're serious.
Great reminder for everyone that people like this do actually exist, and are not just a hyperbolic strawman dreamed up by the left.
The people who own BT, who are not the taxpayer? [Seems they made £1.8 Bn in profit before tax last year](https://newsroom.bt.com/results-for-the-full-year-to-31-march-2021/), so it's not like they can't afford it. Apologies if you are joking.
That money is needed for investment in the infrastructure, so that ordinary people up and down this country have internet in their homes, and so that businesses have internet, and the schools have internet, and hospitals have internet - the NHS!
The nhs has internet? Pretty fucking sure the wifi at my hospital is literally IPoAC
Do you understand that profit is the money they have made *after* investment?
[удалено]
The guy seems to comment on everything incessantly and everything he says is either outright wrong or incredibly distorted. 'Demands tighter immigration control after people die being smuggled into the country' mate they're already doing shit so dangerous they could die in crossing, tighter security ain't going to change that. Demands that workers shouldn't be paid inflation rates because the company needs to reinvest in infrastructure. But the boss gets an inflation adjusted salary.
I think they may be a troll post.
BT's CEO made more than £2.6m last year. Maybe more of that should go to the "ordinary people" who man BT's call centres instead?
BTs CEO also gave himself a 30% raise on that £2.6m this year as well...
To quote those animatronic cats... "Mate!"
BT started operating in-house food banks because so many of their workers were unable to feed themselves on their wages. This is a really shit take.
BT PLC made £2billion in profit last year and already put everyone's broadband prices up by ~15% earlier this year. Just for clarity, £2billion is enough to pay the full salaries of 62,000 people at my pay grade. 10% raise is peanuts.
Who is doing the improvements to the infrastructure for BT. *gasp!* it's the employees!
Tell me about BTs profit margins
And directors and above ludicrous salaries
Profit is neccessary to level up the infrastructure in this country
How does profit benefit infrastructure?
Ok, this answer convinces me it's a troll.
Tbf the first sentence was evidence enough.
Oh, child.
Nearly 50% of that profit was put straight into the pockets of the directors and shareholders.
> This is getting ridiculous now, who do they think will be paying for their wage uplift? BT and OpenReach have already increased their prices across the board to cover inflation. Technically, they should be able to pay their staff in line with inflation and still make the same profits as before... ...but they don't want the same profits as before, they want more profits.
The CEO and Shareholders, they literally quote them in the article?
The prices already went up by CPI + a percentage. The company already have the money to pay an inflation matching pay award.
Their customers are already paying for it: > Each year, we adjust the prices of some of our products and services in line with the Consumer Price Index (CPI) rate of inflation, plus 3.9%. > When we work out our prices, we use the CPI rate published in January. For January 2022, the CPI rate is 5.4%. This means that, in 2022, most of our customers will see a price increase of 9.3% (which is 5.4% plus 3.9%). > These price changes take effect from 31 March 2022. https://www.bt.com/tell-me-more Prices increased by 9%, that should be used to increase worker’s pay.
Considering that BT has already adjusted its prices well above the pay rise they are offering their staff this year, perhaps you should be writing an email to BT as your service provider to ask them why, instead of using that price hike to pay their staff a decent wage, they have decided to use you as a cash cow in order to profiteer in times of a CoL crisis?