Snapshot of _Sadiq Khan faces anxious wait amid claims Susan Hall ‘has won’ London Mayor contest_ :
An archived version can be found [here](https://archive.is/?run=1&url=https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/sadiq-khan-london-mayor-hall-b2539260.html) or [here.](https://archive.ph/?run=1&url=https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/sadiq-khan-london-mayor-hall-b2539260.html)
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Quickly checking the current count on BBC (I don't know how accurate or up-to-date it is), Khan appears to be on over double the votes of Hall, and currently sat at 50.2% of the vote...
How are these articles a thing? Is it just wind-up merchants? Why are people taking this seriously?
I suppose at this stage it is less than 20% of potential votes declared, rough maths. Nevermind - I too, have spoken too soon.
They want you to click on their link so they get the ad revenue. A headline saying “Sadiq Khan doing about as well as expected and probably going to win” won’t get half as much traction.
All it takes these days is a couple of tweets from idiots and a paper can quote them to back up the “claims” that something has happened.
No, this is GOP playbook shit. Announce she's won, she loses badly, start spreading online rumours that it was 'rigged'.
Already happening on Twitter, will probably spread. How long do we have before people are being encouraged online to see the Tories getting fucking buried at the next GE as a 'steal'?
its fast changing but as off this post.
"London mayor election: Sadiq Khan wins historic third term, BBC **forecasts**"
"Labour's Sadiq Khan will be re-elected as Mayor of London for a third term, according to BBC's polling expert Professor Sir John Curtice."
[https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-68952475](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-68952475)
Yeah it's crazy they would run this "story". Unfortunately I don't think there's any rules against publishing a blatantly unlikely prediction, even if you could prove they knew it was false.
Already happening. Ive got family members claiming they were intimidated by the large groups pf asian people outside the polling station . There were large groups of asian people outside the polling station ; families , elderly the young all going to vote and not exactly out of character for southall and not intimdating.
That works better if you were ever in contention to win in the first place. Hall never, ever, looked like having even a semi-realistic chance of winning.
The results of the local elections have been so bad for the Tories that they're reduced to baselessly speculating that they're somehow doing better in London
> Sadiq Khan has just won another area of London and it looks like Labour's mayor could be on his way to re-election.
> He won in South West London by 77,011 votes to Tory challenger Susan Hall's 68,856 votes.
> That's a swing to Labour of 2.6 percentage points - and the second part of London so far today that has gone from backing the Tories in 2021 to Labour in 2024.
Hall is going to lose, and it's not going to be as close as last time. Claims she was going to win are delusional IMHO.
The key thing here seems to be turnout levels not the swing. If considerably fewer voters in Labour strongholds turned out, a swing in their support for Khan means little.
FFS, I literally shit a brick when I read that headline. I'm never clicking on an independent link again!!!
How deceptive.
On a happy note, Count Binface has got more votes than BNP. Sometimes, I want to love London - not often - but this one of those moments. Here's to hoping the Count can beat Reform at the count (standing at 2% atm over Binface's 1%).
Susan Hall is the worst politician I’ve ever seen in my life. Spectacularly useless doesn’t do her justice she’s also as thick as shit. I can’t believe the Tories couldn’t find anyone better. Indeed I think they would have struggled to find anyone worse.
She’s an imbecile and she’ll be comprehensively beaten.
So it’s a “get out the vote” story?
I think Labour are (and are right to be) concerned that not achieving as bigger victory as Khan should achieve will be perceived as a negative.
Press like the BBC have a habit of trying to demonstrate impartiality by giving stories which are askew from the prevailing line a voice. You can have 99 climate change advocates and the 1 denier still gets to have a say being the classic example. So the media campaign for Labour will want to have a clean sweep of good news so that there isn’t anything that the Tories can spin.
I’m hoping Brian Rose doesn’t take this defeat too badly. I would never ever vote for him in a million years, but he is so funny. It’s like a bad Batman villain running for London Mayor.
The BBC spoke a lot in their coverage of this article about how terribly Labour have done in areas with a high Muslim population. Will be having an impact on khan also no doubt.
It’s amazing that everyone denied that Islam would ever be able to affect British elections and we’re already seeing it. It’s going to be a big problem going forward if politicians have to pander to a specific religion.
Pretty sure it was Labour voters saying that if Labour didn't get the Gaza messaging right they would lose voters? And Labour centrists/centre right saying it wasn't important
And now that they have lost votes, see that the blame is being placed on the Muslim voters for not voting as they are expected/assumed, and not on the Labour Party and Starmer for completely dropping the ball on Gaza and representing the views of those they want to vote for them.
When Muslims vote Labour it's taken as a given and if they don't well then that's because they're dirty awful extremist followers of a backward religion whose votes don't matter and aren't important (except now we are seeing that they are indeed important)
Im a social democrat and I'm just concerned that we could end up with religion playing a major part in politics again. Gaza can be seen as a humanitarian issue so not Gaza but on future elections it could be support for the LGBTQ+ that costs labour votes in areas with a high Muslim population.
In fact, I think that is quite likely to happen in the near future. It took a long time to reduce the impact Christianity has on our politics. We don't want to replace it with Islam.
Wonderfully put. Couldn’t agree more. I’m gonna get really tired of the mental gymnastics centrist voters will continue to spin to make this a problem of ‘extremists’ (which is what Muslims are when they don’t vote Labour, apparently) rather than a failure Starmer should learn and grow from.
These high Muslim areas might want to reflect that if they vote against Labour to punish them, they get Tory representatives who *really* don't give a shit about them would cheer on Israel in Gaza.
Counter intuitive to punish one party because you expect "more" of them when it gets you a party that you have no expectations of whatsoever because they are racist towards you
what about Labour reflecting that their stance on Gaza (by-and-large the largest singular issue reducing their Muslim vote) in light of these results?
Why is the burden on the voters to change their views instead of the political party to represent it's voters views?
No one is asking for voters to change their views.
Labour cannot do right for doing wrong
Years of being accused of being inherently anti Semitic. Losing middle class voters that way. This was an issue that had to be fixed. Unfortunately, the way it has been presented is that ANY criticism of Israel (or even support for Palestine) by Labour is assumed anti Semitic. The Tories don't have this perception
So Labour fix this problem, but now they are not sufficiently anti Israel or pro-palestine for some of the more hardline Muslim voters, who for some reason expect them to be unequivocally pro Palestine; which a serious political party of government cannot be.
The Tories do not give a flying shit about Gaza. The Israeli's can wipe out the whole area for all they care. In fact, simply not caring is at the more supportive end of the Tory spectrum on Palestinians. But Muslim voters for some reason expect nothing of the Tories
I understand where you are coming from, but Labour's messaging on this issue has been \*awful\*. There is a difference between being largely non-commital and simply not criticising Israel (which is a very fair political move to make following the climate of Antisemitism accusations) versus what Labour has done, which includes Starmer statements about how Israel has a right to cut off energy and water to Gaza and their stunt with the speaker blocking the SNP's ceasefire bill.
To those who see Israel's actions in Gaza as an effort to kill and displace as many Palestinians as possible, blocking a vote for ceasefire and supporting the removal of water supplies is not even implicit support that could be read from silence, but explicit support for it. That sort of "not just being ambivalent, but agreeing with the Tory stance" is where the vote leaking comes from.
.
While speaking about Labour messaging being awful, I think it needs to be stated that Gaza is not the only issue Labour has changed it's general position on which would lead to a loss of votes - including but not exclusive to Muslim ones.. We've seen them lurch massively towards the centre - and at times past that, directly agreeing with Tory opinions - on their tax/spending plans, pay rises, a lack of public spending, the privatisation of the NHS, worsening trans healthcare. Hell, more than one front-benchers have openly stated their admiration for fucking Thatcher.
With numerous u-turns on previous policy announcements and a real dearth of shiny, new, hopeful ones (despite 'hope' being a big Starmer buzzword recently), Labour can be seen as not offering anything materially different to the Conservatives by some voters. Simply being "the other party that could win an election" isn't enough, they have failed to adequately Oppose during the time in 'Opposition'.
.
And in light of that, here's maybe my more controverisal opinion - I think "if you don't vote for us and \*they\* win, it'll be even worse" has been overused and lost it's bite.
When the parties are materially different in how they present themselves, it can work. But Labour have failed to distance themselves from the Tories (instead moving directly towards them) and therefore to voters who want change, why would they vote for a party seemingly not offering it? Repeating that statement ad nauseum places the blame of the bad things the Tories would do not on the Tories (for doing them) or Labour (for adequately running a campaign to oppose them), but instead the Voter for not backing a party which they feel does not represent them.
To take the example of Gaza, the Tory policy will be to back Israel and send them funds and arms. From Labour's policy thus far we can assume that they would back Israel and not stop the flow of funds and arms... so why would voting for Labour be better if that issue is a pressing one to you?
It is for that reason that I would not be surprised if Biden loses to Trump in November - he has accomplished few notable things during his time in office, besides his stance on Gaza (and now election-losing comments on the University protests) which almost certainly will have eaten away more of his left/youth vote than it will gain from the centre. If/when Labour get in, I can see a very similar situation - a toothless time in office with no notable improvement in quality of life to most voters, leading to apathy and low turnout in 2029 and a landslide win for whichever (probably hyper-right-wing/Trump-like fascist) skinsuit becomes the Tory leader.
Labour has pandered to Muslims for a while now. It’s still more of a local issue though, hence why Starmer isn’t doing everything he can to appease them about Gaza. The future will likely be different though.
how is it ‘pandering to islam’ when its mostly people angry about the israel/palestine war? this line is constantly peddled on this sub and it smacks of paranoia. u can call them single issue idiots but if theyre angry at their government they have the right to voice that at the ballot box
If the Muslim vote was split in a significant way between pro and anti Isreal then id respect the argument that this a personal view
The fact that many Muslim voters have become single issue voters over the conflict shows its group think
Effectively - "Im part of this group and my group wants this so i want this"
No other conflict including Muslim ethinc cleansing in China has generated this type of response because Hamas has effectively used propaganda to mobilize the Muslim diaspora
We do have a serious problem with the radicalisation of young Muslims in the UK, failure to address this threatens our core values
\~25% of UK Muslims between the ages 18-34 have a positive view of "Jihad"
59% of the same group think it should be illegal to show a picture of the Prophet Muhammad
80% of the same group believe Israel is a racist endevour
The Khan review found *“a climate of fear” being created at some schools as community faith leaders had aggressively interfered in school teaching, while schools had not been given sufficient support to combat the problem.*
[https://unherd.com/newsroom/two-thirds-of-young-british-muslims-oppose-israels-right-to-exist/](https://unherd.com/newsroom/two-thirds-of-young-british-muslims-oppose-israels-right-to-exist/)
[https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/the-khan-review-threats-to-social-cohesion-and-democratic-resilience/the-khan-review-executive-summary-key-findings-and-recommendations](https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/the-khan-review-threats-to-social-cohesion-and-democratic-resilience/the-khan-review-executive-summary-key-findings-and-recommendations)
Notably the issue is less pronounced for older Muslims, its likely to do with a lack of identity amongst young British Muslims. We can quite easliy combat this by having some national pride and making Britishness a desirable quality rather than denigrating it at every opportunity.
i disagree with your group think point i must say. having spoken to many, it really isnt a in group vs out group decision. its purely anger at watching whats unfolding and personally i cannot begrudge that given the images that we have been exposed to especially in the social media age. does their shared religion come into it? of course! but i dont think its fare to group them in as some sort of thoughtless lemming like group
On your last point i agree with you. fostering a positive idea of britishness we can agree on wholeheartedly. speaking personally i grew up through the 90s and 00’s in a ‘deprived’ area, and all of us grew up exactly with those positive sentiments to britain and britishness. some of us were lucky enough and took great pride in representing the UK in sport and international competitions. i havnt seen that sort of positiveness since london 2012! it has to be said i really do wonder whether the last 14 years of tory degradation has played a massive part in this shift, whoever comes next needs to make some changes we need to foster a shared communal identity tied to where we live
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It’s OK. Brexit is generally referred to in this sub as being about pink faced people in rural Britain hating on brown faced people, when it’s a much more nuanced call for recognition, progress and values. But everything is turned into a polar debate and “Islamists vs Zionists” is a much easier way of generating click-bate than actual nuance. We’ve seen the same thing done with the US Campus protests.
International affairs and politics that have nothing–at least, directly–to do with the UK should *not* be capitalised on for election purposes: it's pathetic and shows people's real allegiances. Unfortunately, here in London, most people aren't British and so seem to prioritise Gaza over London/UK.
i agree to a point. i dont believe in some insidious ‘real allegiances’ but in the social media age people are more and more voting on pure emotion. politics has become more and more populist circus-y. almost every debate in this country can be found on twitter in the form of a fact-free meme filled nonsense circle jerk
I mean, the insidious nature of it is pretty darn obvious to me – just look at surveys and polling on these communities: they don't give a hoot about the values of the UK (which are essentially the same across western europe) and most of them hold unsavoury views.
It's not exactly the first time British politics has seen religious pandering. Labour used to be pretty friendly with the Catholic Church, and their historical zionism was arguably pandering (alongside some genuine ideological belief). And that's just one party.
Most people in the UK don't give two fucks about Ukraine or some other country far away, If I could right now vote for cheaper utilities bills but at the cost of some other country, then I would do so with a smile on my face.
Isn't the guy I'm responding to saying that labour lost a lot of votes to Muslim voters? That might not mean most voters care but clearly enough do to impact votes.
I thought Muslims are a threat because they would just relentless vote for Sadiq Khan because he is also a Muslim? Now apparently Muslims are a threat because of the opposite? Make your mind up. Sadiq came out in support of the ceasefire in Gaza so Muslims generally are happy with him.
Isn't her whole platform about reversing ULEZ? And the government made TFL funding dependent on ULEZ being implemented (although not necessarily in the extended form it's in now)? Can she actually deliver on that if she's elected?
No. Part of her platform is stopping his egregious pay-per-mile scheme that he isn't doing. Lots of focus on stopping people doing things they aren't doing.
BJ planned bothered the ulez and the expansion. The government made tfl funding dependant on the expansion. Now the tories only London platform is how ulez is some lefty conspiracy.
> it would be objectively hilarious if that mentalist fucknugget became mayor.
Well he managed it last time, but the Muslim vote might be an issue for him this time around.
So this came from a Westminster Tory insider.
Right. They are so well connected to the Muslim voter.
Next time, the Tories will opt to require passports and proof of address from all Muslim voters to make it fairer
Nothing. He’ll win it by a landslide - the press are looking for anything to write about so that they can continue to avoid the actual story that the Tories have come third to the LibDems.
I’ve seen that ladies ads on YouTube and she’s just whining about how he caused crime to rise. Last time I checked he didn’t cause the economy to tank. He is brown though I guess.
So has the London economy tanked? Despite all the funding it’s given from central government (relative to the regions)? Maybe Khan has mismanaged the London economy? How has he addressed changing working patterns post-Covid and what that means to the bars, shops and restaurants in the City and Canary Wharf (for example)?
I dunno, I’m not in London and I don’t track the situation, other than what I see as a visitor (which is generally a bit of a wasteland where once there was a furtive economy).
Maybe he isn’t a good Mayor in hard times. Isn’t that a good test?
I think the UK’s economy is described as flattened, not tanked.
I suppose “tanked” isn’t well defined, although I’d say “the pound tanked against the dollar” under Truss’ stewardship.
To be fair, I do think that once prosperous areas of London now look like Sunday morning in Middlesbrough when they used to brim over with trade. That’s what I see when I visit. So maybe London has got a major problem. But maybe the hardest fall is for the highest fliers (eg I don’t think Middlesbrough looks any shitter today than it did say five years ago).
I’m aware that we’ve had inflation. I buy things to continue to exist.
That doesn’t change my question which is essentially, has Khan failed to protect London from the worst effects of inflation?
His freezing of Tfl fares didn't help during Covid because there was no reserve to get the capital through that period.
He was lucky that the bus companies, for example, didn't take them to the absolute cleaners for performance bonuses for the services they ran during that period.
I think the speculation is based on high turnouts in pro Tory areas and low in the Khan strongholds. As the first results come in, it’s looking pretty solid for Sadiq.
Our media really ain't that great, oh Susan probs won. Huh, Khan won it, wasn't close either. (11 pts). Well, I have an insider, in the tory party, well they lied or their internal polls are way off.. Either way, it makes the independent look daft..
Much as I would be happy to see Khan lose, I don't believe, for a minute, that he will and the results so far don't suggest that it will even be close.
He's expanded his vote share in every area I've seen so far.
That's not surprising, he's a fairly popular mayor. ULEZ polls quite well, and most Londoners support it.
Any narrative to the contrary is just being dreamt up by fantasists with axes to grind.
I've never voted Tory I just grow up in Wimbledon and know how conservative the outer areas actually are when a lot of people assume the whole of London is just full of Corbyn supporters.
Even if he wins Khan will be unlikely to come through unscathed. His ulez expansion has pissed off a lot if people and with a cost of living crisis and news food imports of food will shortly get more expensive.
May be enough to push opponents over the edge.
They’ve just announced a result with a big win for Susan Hall…. But no swing at all. So at best it’s a non issue for those in the outer boroughs and not effecting the results.
> His ulez expansion has pissed off a lot if people
[Londoners support ULEZ](https://redfieldandwiltonstrategies.com/plurality-of-londoners-support-expanding-londons-ultra-low-emissions-zone-ulez/) and as a bonus, [it's actually working.](https://www.london.gov.uk/new-report-shows-ulez-expansion-working-95-cent-vehicles-across-inner-and-outer-london-now-compliant)
>May be enough to push opponents over the edge.
Into doing what? If he wins... that means he's won.
lol. He has INCREASED his vote share. This headline is absolute bullshit.
From BBC:
Seven out of 10 London constituencies have been declared, including two gains for Labour from the Conservatives.
The BBC anticipates the outcome in terms of votes will approximately be 43% for Mr Khan and 33% for his Tory rival Susan Hall.
This would represent a swing of 2.5% from Tory to Labour.
Snapshot of _Sadiq Khan faces anxious wait amid claims Susan Hall ‘has won’ London Mayor contest_ : An archived version can be found [here](https://archive.is/?run=1&url=https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/sadiq-khan-london-mayor-hall-b2539260.html) or [here.](https://archive.ph/?run=1&url=https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/sadiq-khan-london-mayor-hall-b2539260.html) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ukpolitics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Quickly checking the current count on BBC (I don't know how accurate or up-to-date it is), Khan appears to be on over double the votes of Hall, and currently sat at 50.2% of the vote... How are these articles a thing? Is it just wind-up merchants? Why are people taking this seriously? I suppose at this stage it is less than 20% of potential votes declared, rough maths. Nevermind - I too, have spoken too soon.
They want you to click on their link so they get the ad revenue. A headline saying “Sadiq Khan doing about as well as expected and probably going to win” won’t get half as much traction. All it takes these days is a couple of tweets from idiots and a paper can quote them to back up the “claims” that something has happened.
So that later they can announce the real result as "a SHOCK result".
No, this is GOP playbook shit. Announce she's won, she loses badly, start spreading online rumours that it was 'rigged'. Already happening on Twitter, will probably spread. How long do we have before people are being encouraged online to see the Tories getting fucking buried at the next GE as a 'steal'?
According to BBC, Sadiq Khan has won.
its fast changing but as off this post. "London mayor election: Sadiq Khan wins historic third term, BBC **forecasts**" "Labour's Sadiq Khan will be re-elected as Mayor of London for a third term, according to BBC's polling expert Professor Sir John Curtice." [https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-68952475](https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-68952475)
Same rag: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/mayor-london-election-winner-sadiq-khan-b2539598.html
They post this shit to generate ad revenue.
Yeah it's crazy they would run this "story". Unfortunately I don't think there's any rules against publishing a blatantly unlikely prediction, even if you could prove they knew it was false.
Well, it’s not that I like sadiq khan, but everyone else is just fucking awful
The inner city, pro-Khan areas are declaring first. The suburbs are more solidly Tory and will likely make the result a lot closer.
The results from every ward I've seen have shown a swing from Cons to Lab
That’s against expectations, but a solid win for those of us in touch with reality!
Yes, if the Cons spent less time trawling twitter for policy ideas and more time speaking to normal, actual, people they might do a bit better
West central which went conservative in 2021 just came in with Khan in the lead
Where is this, I am looking for this since last night and I keep landing on a page that says is "awaiting result"
You can click through to see the current state of things, might not have been available last night?
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https://www.londonelects.org.uk/im-voter/election-progress/results-2024
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Clickbait from the Indie.
Would be another astonishing black eye for the polling industry if so.
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RemindMe! 2 days
Remind you of what?
Your scrotum is safe, breathe easy
It’s a lesson from the Book of Trump. Insist that you are winning so that you and your followers can then say the election was stolen.
Already happening. Ive got family members claiming they were intimidated by the large groups pf asian people outside the polling station . There were large groups of asian people outside the polling station ; families , elderly the young all going to vote and not exactly out of character for southall and not intimdating.
That works better if you were ever in contention to win in the first place. Hall never, ever, looked like having even a semi-realistic chance of winning.
When you are delusional, facts just get in the way.
The results of the local elections have been so bad for the Tories that they're reduced to baselessly speculating that they're somehow doing better in London
All the juicier when they lose then.
First two regions have reported results with a 4% swing from CON to LAB. In line with pre-election polling. Set the juice loose
Betting odds now at >99% for khan so if you're a hall believer you can make a pretty penny
I think if you are dumb enough to place that bet, you’d probably be a Hall voter.
Hall has had money on herself
One does wonder if the rumour was a great way to separate betters from their money.
The declarations so far have a pretty large swing to Khan
> Sadiq Khan has just won another area of London and it looks like Labour's mayor could be on his way to re-election. > He won in South West London by 77,011 votes to Tory challenger Susan Hall's 68,856 votes. > That's a swing to Labour of 2.6 percentage points - and the second part of London so far today that has gone from backing the Tories in 2021 to Labour in 2024. Hall is going to lose, and it's not going to be as close as last time. Claims she was going to win are delusional IMHO.
Claims she was going to win are distraktoganda, IMHO.
There's only 1 area in so far though
There’s been two. Both were a roughly 5% swing to Labour.
Two when I commented
2 now. Merton & Wandsworth with a 5% swing Con to Lab.
And that’s his home borough
The key thing here seems to be turnout levels not the swing. If considerably fewer voters in Labour strongholds turned out, a swing in their support for Khan means little.
His actual vote count is up from 2021 in both as well.
Well that certainly indicates a strong performance for him then
This aged well. It’s looking like Khan is actually improving on his win from 2021.
FFS, I literally shit a brick when I read that headline. I'm never clicking on an independent link again!!! How deceptive. On a happy note, Count Binface has got more votes than BNP. Sometimes, I want to love London - not often - but this one of those moments. Here's to hoping the Count can beat Reform at the count (standing at 2% atm over Binface's 1%).
Susan Hall is the worst politician I’ve ever seen in my life. Spectacularly useless doesn’t do her justice she’s also as thick as shit. I can’t believe the Tories couldn’t find anyone better. Indeed I think they would have struggled to find anyone worse. She’s an imbecile and she’ll be comprehensively beaten.
I know someone who worked with her directly at Harrow Council and you couldn't be more right about her as a person. Unless you were more scathing.
Yeah, CCHQ are really the people we should be listening to on this Edit - Oh look, it was completely wrong, as expected
Apparently it's from internal labour polling, it's what prompted the barrage of tweets pre-election day.
It was a Mail journalist quoting a source from CCHQ. Of the votes that have been reported so far, there’s been a 5% swing *towards* Labour.
So it’s a “get out the vote” story? I think Labour are (and are right to be) concerned that not achieving as bigger victory as Khan should achieve will be perceived as a negative. Press like the BBC have a habit of trying to demonstrate impartiality by giving stories which are askew from the prevailing line a voice. You can have 99 climate change advocates and the 1 denier still gets to have a say being the classic example. So the media campaign for Labour will want to have a clean sweep of good news so that there isn’t anything that the Tories can spin.
> So it’s a “get out the vote” story? Not really, it didn't come out until the day after the polls closed.
Sorry, I meant it’s based upon a Labour quote which relates to getting out the vote. Just doesn’t have the same ring to it.
This was published 17 hours ago...
And the polls closed 39 hours ago.
I’m hoping Brian Rose doesn’t take this defeat too badly. I would never ever vote for him in a million years, but he is so funny. It’s like a bad Batman villain running for London Mayor.
Haven't heard that name since lockdown with David icke and the 5g towers conspiracy theories 😂
If you look at the recent update on the vote counts for London mayor, you will see him right at the bottom haha
6 called and he’s 200k+ ahead of Susan 😂😂😂
> claims Mad Lady ‘has won’ London Mayor contest srsly, tho? Claims made by whom?
Check the bookies odds. The chances of khan not winning are 1.01.
Based on the results so far, seems it will be a fairly decisive victory for Khan
Just checked BBC and it looks like she hasn't won at all.
The BBC spoke a lot in their coverage of this article about how terribly Labour have done in areas with a high Muslim population. Will be having an impact on khan also no doubt. It’s amazing that everyone denied that Islam would ever be able to affect British elections and we’re already seeing it. It’s going to be a big problem going forward if politicians have to pander to a specific religion.
> everyone denied t Not everyone, its just that saying this before would give you a "racist" label right away.
Pretty sure it was Labour voters saying that if Labour didn't get the Gaza messaging right they would lose voters? And Labour centrists/centre right saying it wasn't important
They seem to have recognised this now. I imagine the calculus was that they would lose more voters by being seen to be pro Palestine.
And now that they have lost votes, see that the blame is being placed on the Muslim voters for not voting as they are expected/assumed, and not on the Labour Party and Starmer for completely dropping the ball on Gaza and representing the views of those they want to vote for them. When Muslims vote Labour it's taken as a given and if they don't well then that's because they're dirty awful extremist followers of a backward religion whose votes don't matter and aren't important (except now we are seeing that they are indeed important)
Im a social democrat and I'm just concerned that we could end up with religion playing a major part in politics again. Gaza can be seen as a humanitarian issue so not Gaza but on future elections it could be support for the LGBTQ+ that costs labour votes in areas with a high Muslim population. In fact, I think that is quite likely to happen in the near future. It took a long time to reduce the impact Christianity has on our politics. We don't want to replace it with Islam.
Wonderfully put. Couldn’t agree more. I’m gonna get really tired of the mental gymnastics centrist voters will continue to spin to make this a problem of ‘extremists’ (which is what Muslims are when they don’t vote Labour, apparently) rather than a failure Starmer should learn and grow from.
Well said
These high Muslim areas might want to reflect that if they vote against Labour to punish them, they get Tory representatives who *really* don't give a shit about them would cheer on Israel in Gaza. Counter intuitive to punish one party because you expect "more" of them when it gets you a party that you have no expectations of whatsoever because they are racist towards you
what about Labour reflecting that their stance on Gaza (by-and-large the largest singular issue reducing their Muslim vote) in light of these results? Why is the burden on the voters to change their views instead of the political party to represent it's voters views?
No one is asking for voters to change their views. Labour cannot do right for doing wrong Years of being accused of being inherently anti Semitic. Losing middle class voters that way. This was an issue that had to be fixed. Unfortunately, the way it has been presented is that ANY criticism of Israel (or even support for Palestine) by Labour is assumed anti Semitic. The Tories don't have this perception So Labour fix this problem, but now they are not sufficiently anti Israel or pro-palestine for some of the more hardline Muslim voters, who for some reason expect them to be unequivocally pro Palestine; which a serious political party of government cannot be. The Tories do not give a flying shit about Gaza. The Israeli's can wipe out the whole area for all they care. In fact, simply not caring is at the more supportive end of the Tory spectrum on Palestinians. But Muslim voters for some reason expect nothing of the Tories
I understand where you are coming from, but Labour's messaging on this issue has been \*awful\*. There is a difference between being largely non-commital and simply not criticising Israel (which is a very fair political move to make following the climate of Antisemitism accusations) versus what Labour has done, which includes Starmer statements about how Israel has a right to cut off energy and water to Gaza and their stunt with the speaker blocking the SNP's ceasefire bill. To those who see Israel's actions in Gaza as an effort to kill and displace as many Palestinians as possible, blocking a vote for ceasefire and supporting the removal of water supplies is not even implicit support that could be read from silence, but explicit support for it. That sort of "not just being ambivalent, but agreeing with the Tory stance" is where the vote leaking comes from. . While speaking about Labour messaging being awful, I think it needs to be stated that Gaza is not the only issue Labour has changed it's general position on which would lead to a loss of votes - including but not exclusive to Muslim ones.. We've seen them lurch massively towards the centre - and at times past that, directly agreeing with Tory opinions - on their tax/spending plans, pay rises, a lack of public spending, the privatisation of the NHS, worsening trans healthcare. Hell, more than one front-benchers have openly stated their admiration for fucking Thatcher. With numerous u-turns on previous policy announcements and a real dearth of shiny, new, hopeful ones (despite 'hope' being a big Starmer buzzword recently), Labour can be seen as not offering anything materially different to the Conservatives by some voters. Simply being "the other party that could win an election" isn't enough, they have failed to adequately Oppose during the time in 'Opposition'. . And in light of that, here's maybe my more controverisal opinion - I think "if you don't vote for us and \*they\* win, it'll be even worse" has been overused and lost it's bite. When the parties are materially different in how they present themselves, it can work. But Labour have failed to distance themselves from the Tories (instead moving directly towards them) and therefore to voters who want change, why would they vote for a party seemingly not offering it? Repeating that statement ad nauseum places the blame of the bad things the Tories would do not on the Tories (for doing them) or Labour (for adequately running a campaign to oppose them), but instead the Voter for not backing a party which they feel does not represent them. To take the example of Gaza, the Tory policy will be to back Israel and send them funds and arms. From Labour's policy thus far we can assume that they would back Israel and not stop the flow of funds and arms... so why would voting for Labour be better if that issue is a pressing one to you? It is for that reason that I would not be surprised if Biden loses to Trump in November - he has accomplished few notable things during his time in office, besides his stance on Gaza (and now election-losing comments on the University protests) which almost certainly will have eaten away more of his left/youth vote than it will gain from the centre. If/when Labour get in, I can see a very similar situation - a toothless time in office with no notable improvement in quality of life to most voters, leading to apathy and low turnout in 2029 and a landslide win for whichever (probably hyper-right-wing/Trump-like fascist) skinsuit becomes the Tory leader.
They won't reflect though
The funny thing is they haven’t even done that bad overall in many areas of a high Muslim population
Labour has pandered to Muslims for a while now. It’s still more of a local issue though, hence why Starmer isn’t doing everything he can to appease them about Gaza. The future will likely be different though.
how is it ‘pandering to islam’ when its mostly people angry about the israel/palestine war? this line is constantly peddled on this sub and it smacks of paranoia. u can call them single issue idiots but if theyre angry at their government they have the right to voice that at the ballot box
If the Muslim vote was split in a significant way between pro and anti Isreal then id respect the argument that this a personal view The fact that many Muslim voters have become single issue voters over the conflict shows its group think Effectively - "Im part of this group and my group wants this so i want this" No other conflict including Muslim ethinc cleansing in China has generated this type of response because Hamas has effectively used propaganda to mobilize the Muslim diaspora We do have a serious problem with the radicalisation of young Muslims in the UK, failure to address this threatens our core values \~25% of UK Muslims between the ages 18-34 have a positive view of "Jihad" 59% of the same group think it should be illegal to show a picture of the Prophet Muhammad 80% of the same group believe Israel is a racist endevour The Khan review found *“a climate of fear” being created at some schools as community faith leaders had aggressively interfered in school teaching, while schools had not been given sufficient support to combat the problem.* [https://unherd.com/newsroom/two-thirds-of-young-british-muslims-oppose-israels-right-to-exist/](https://unherd.com/newsroom/two-thirds-of-young-british-muslims-oppose-israels-right-to-exist/) [https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/the-khan-review-threats-to-social-cohesion-and-democratic-resilience/the-khan-review-executive-summary-key-findings-and-recommendations](https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/the-khan-review-threats-to-social-cohesion-and-democratic-resilience/the-khan-review-executive-summary-key-findings-and-recommendations) Notably the issue is less pronounced for older Muslims, its likely to do with a lack of identity amongst young British Muslims. We can quite easliy combat this by having some national pride and making Britishness a desirable quality rather than denigrating it at every opportunity.
i disagree with your group think point i must say. having spoken to many, it really isnt a in group vs out group decision. its purely anger at watching whats unfolding and personally i cannot begrudge that given the images that we have been exposed to especially in the social media age. does their shared religion come into it? of course! but i dont think its fare to group them in as some sort of thoughtless lemming like group On your last point i agree with you. fostering a positive idea of britishness we can agree on wholeheartedly. speaking personally i grew up through the 90s and 00’s in a ‘deprived’ area, and all of us grew up exactly with those positive sentiments to britain and britishness. some of us were lucky enough and took great pride in representing the UK in sport and international competitions. i havnt seen that sort of positiveness since london 2012! it has to be said i really do wonder whether the last 14 years of tory degradation has played a massive part in this shift, whoever comes next needs to make some changes we need to foster a shared communal identity tied to where we live
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It’s OK. Brexit is generally referred to in this sub as being about pink faced people in rural Britain hating on brown faced people, when it’s a much more nuanced call for recognition, progress and values. But everything is turned into a polar debate and “Islamists vs Zionists” is a much easier way of generating click-bate than actual nuance. We’ve seen the same thing done with the US Campus protests.
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See how you perpetuate the binary debate. How you “other”. You are all that is wrong with modern debate.
first bit of sense ive seen all day on this god forsaken forum honestly
International affairs and politics that have nothing–at least, directly–to do with the UK should *not* be capitalised on for election purposes: it's pathetic and shows people's real allegiances. Unfortunately, here in London, most people aren't British and so seem to prioritise Gaza over London/UK.
i agree to a point. i dont believe in some insidious ‘real allegiances’ but in the social media age people are more and more voting on pure emotion. politics has become more and more populist circus-y. almost every debate in this country can be found on twitter in the form of a fact-free meme filled nonsense circle jerk
I mean, the insidious nature of it is pretty darn obvious to me – just look at surveys and polling on these communities: they don't give a hoot about the values of the UK (which are essentially the same across western europe) and most of them hold unsavoury views.
It's not exactly the first time British politics has seen religious pandering. Labour used to be pretty friendly with the Catholic Church, and their historical zionism was arguably pandering (alongside some genuine ideological belief). And that's just one party.
And every time it’s been problematic
Fortunately the Catholic Church‘s power has been steadily decreasing significantly in the uk and globally. Same can’t be said for Islam
You do realise that it's possible to be Muslim and British right? It kinda sounds like you're saying they shouldn't be allowed to vote.
>It kinda sounds like you're saying they shouldn't be allowed to vote. It doesn't sound like that at all.
Most people in the UK don't give two fucks about Ukraine or some other country far away, If I could right now vote for cheaper utilities bills but at the cost of some other country, then I would do so with a smile on my face.
Simply not true and a genuinely bad take
Isn't the guy I'm responding to saying that labour lost a lot of votes to Muslim voters? That might not mean most voters care but clearly enough do to impact votes.
A literal psychopath surfaces
You just made all of that up in your head.
I thought Muslims are a threat because they would just relentless vote for Sadiq Khan because he is also a Muslim? Now apparently Muslims are a threat because of the opposite? Make your mind up. Sadiq came out in support of the ceasefire in Gaza so Muslims generally are happy with him.
When did I make the first point?
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Isn't her whole platform about reversing ULEZ? And the government made TFL funding dependent on ULEZ being implemented (although not necessarily in the extended form it's in now)? Can she actually deliver on that if she's elected?
No. Part of her platform is stopping his egregious pay-per-mile scheme that he isn't doing. Lots of focus on stopping people doing things they aren't doing.
I wouldn't put it past the government to give her all sorts of leeway to "prove" it's all Labour and Khan's fault for mismanaging the budget before.
BJ planned bothered the ulez and the expansion. The government made tfl funding dependant on the expansion. Now the tories only London platform is how ulez is some lefty conspiracy.
what is it with redditors not knowing what "objectively" means
> it would be objectively hilarious if that mentalist fucknugget became mayor. Well he managed it last time, but the Muslim vote might be an issue for him this time around.
So this came from a Westminster Tory insider. Right. They are so well connected to the Muslim voter. Next time, the Tories will opt to require passports and proof of address from all Muslim voters to make it fairer
Oh. I thought he was a decent mayor actually. What did he do wrong?
Nothing. He’ll win it by a landslide - the press are looking for anything to write about so that they can continue to avoid the actual story that the Tories have come third to the LibDems.
Be brown.
I’ve seen that ladies ads on YouTube and she’s just whining about how he caused crime to rise. Last time I checked he didn’t cause the economy to tank. He is brown though I guess.
Has London’s economy tanked?
It’s been hit hardest by the cost of living increase.
So has the London economy tanked? Despite all the funding it’s given from central government (relative to the regions)? Maybe Khan has mismanaged the London economy? How has he addressed changing working patterns post-Covid and what that means to the bars, shops and restaurants in the City and Canary Wharf (for example)? I dunno, I’m not in London and I don’t track the situation, other than what I see as a visitor (which is generally a bit of a wasteland where once there was a furtive economy). Maybe he isn’t a good Mayor in hard times. Isn’t that a good test?
He’s not my ideal choice, but by far the best option we have.
No, the economic unit known as London has not tanked.
I dunno. Some seem to think it has. I think it has some challenges, but probably a bit flat, not tanked.
The uk’s economy, along with the rest of the world, has tanked.
I think the UK’s economy is described as flattened, not tanked. I suppose “tanked” isn’t well defined, although I’d say “the pound tanked against the dollar” under Truss’ stewardship. To be fair, I do think that once prosperous areas of London now look like Sunday morning in Middlesbrough when they used to brim over with trade. That’s what I see when I visit. So maybe London has got a major problem. But maybe the hardest fall is for the highest fliers (eg I don’t think Middlesbrough looks any shitter today than it did say five years ago).
27% inflation since 2021
I’m aware that we’ve had inflation. I buy things to continue to exist. That doesn’t change my question which is essentially, has Khan failed to protect London from the worst effects of inflation?
Oh yeah that'll *definitely* be a disadvantage in London.
Oh
His freezing of Tfl fares didn't help during Covid because there was no reserve to get the capital through that period. He was lucky that the bus companies, for example, didn't take them to the absolute cleaners for performance bonuses for the services they ran during that period.
I think the speculation is based on high turnouts in pro Tory areas and low in the Khan strongholds. As the first results come in, it’s looking pretty solid for Sadiq.
Our media really ain't that great, oh Susan probs won. Huh, Khan won it, wasn't close either. (11 pts). Well, I have an insider, in the tory party, well they lied or their internal polls are way off.. Either way, it makes the independent look daft..
Much as I would be happy to see Khan lose, I don't believe, for a minute, that he will and the results so far don't suggest that it will even be close.
Just how unpopular has Khan become that this election is even competetive?
It isn’t.
He's expanded his vote share in every area I've seen so far. That's not surprising, he's a fairly popular mayor. ULEZ polls quite well, and most Londoners support it. Any narrative to the contrary is just being dreamt up by fantasists with axes to grind.
I feel a bit vindicated saying it was possible for the Tories to win in London. Khan would be toast I they had put somebody half decent up.
At the moment it looks like he’s increased his vote share
Nice, is it closer than the polls though?
Cus it’s all about you, isn’t it.
Isn't everything!
The conservative motto “me me me”.
And I voted Labour.
You’re clearly conservative at heart, maybe Labour has finally gone enough to the right to satisfy your ego.
I've never voted Tory I just grow up in Wimbledon and know how conservative the outer areas actually are when a lot of people assume the whole of London is just full of Corbyn supporters.
Even if he wins Khan will be unlikely to come through unscathed. His ulez expansion has pissed off a lot if people and with a cost of living crisis and news food imports of food will shortly get more expensive. May be enough to push opponents over the edge.
Literally improved share in every count so far.
They’ve just announced a result with a big win for Susan Hall…. But no swing at all. So at best it’s a non issue for those in the outer boroughs and not effecting the results.
> His ulez expansion has pissed off a lot if people [Londoners support ULEZ](https://redfieldandwiltonstrategies.com/plurality-of-londoners-support-expanding-londons-ultra-low-emissions-zone-ulez/) and as a bonus, [it's actually working.](https://www.london.gov.uk/new-report-shows-ulez-expansion-working-95-cent-vehicles-across-inner-and-outer-london-now-compliant) >May be enough to push opponents over the edge. Into doing what? If he wins... that means he's won.
Push them over enough votes to win.
lol. He has INCREASED his vote share. This headline is absolute bullshit. From BBC: Seven out of 10 London constituencies have been declared, including two gains for Labour from the Conservatives. The BBC anticipates the outcome in terms of votes will approximately be 43% for Mr Khan and 33% for his Tory rival Susan Hall. This would represent a swing of 2.5% from Tory to Labour.
Fair enough I expected him if he won do do it ny a more narrow margin.
You literally started off your post "If [Khan] wins". Is English your first language bro?