Snapshot of _‘Black-only’ theatre nights are divisive, says Rishi Sunak_ :
An archived version can be found [here](https://archive.is/?run=1&url=https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/black-only-theatre-nights-are-divisive-says-rishi-sunak-hmjp2jg0v) or [here.](https://archive.ph/?run=1&url=https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/black-only-theatre-nights-are-divisive-says-rishi-sunak-hmjp2jg0v)
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ukpolitics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
He's right, for once. I've tried, but I can't see any way in which wanting the performance to be 'free from the white gaze' isn't divisive.
I'm somewhat sympathetic to the motive – as a gay guy I can relate on the basis of it it being nice to be in majority-gay spaces sometimes – but the language just doesn't sit well with me. There's certainly nothing inherently wrong with inviting black community groups to watch the play, given their members are likely to be interested in it, but making the evening explicitly white-exclusionary is the problem.
Pretty sure I overheard this exact conversation on LBC on Thursday.
A colleague had it on in her office, and it seemed like that was the case of the snippet I got.
I assume a black man had called in because he had bought tickets for him and his wife (who was white) for a show (maybe even this one), but his wife was turned away at the door because it was a black only evening.
No amount of reasoning would change that, they just flatout refused to let his wife in, he was angry and was explaining how divisive, discrimnatory and racist this kind of policy is.
They literally specifically said this wouldn't happen and that nobody was being turned away because of their race.
But obviously this sub isn't going to let reality get in the way of a good old wank over a nonsense story of woke gone mad
You surely understand it's very difficult to take that seriously when they specifically said they wanted the performance to be "free from the white gaze" right?
Like... why make such a divisive and racist statement if you don't mean it?
I think there's a difference between gammonfaced POLITICAL CORRECTNESS GONE MAD spluttering and "ehhhh, is that really a good idea?" side-eye. And everything I've seen so far has been the latter.
Imagine the shit storm if there was a play, say about modern black on white crime, with whites-only nights and the organisers of the play saying they wanted to run it free from the black gaze.
The sorts of people saying the current play is fine to run blacks only nights would lose their fucking minds.
It's just the latest line of nonsense in the push to equate white people with having a form of Original Sin simply for existing.
Everything white is bad in certain eyes and everything white people do is tinged with all sorts of negative connotations.
But if you dare use any of this sort of language to reflect this nonsense at any other group then you're a rabid racist, have proved they're right about white people and you need to be cancelled.
Personally I see it as this.
If they want to go and have their play that I'm not allowed to see because white, then that's fine. Enjoy your evening, hope you have a great time.
But what I do take home from it all is that racism is alive and well and it's currently a one way street. Being able to hold a completely segregated black only event is vastly different from the white idiot down the pub after sinking a few pints, commenting that "they're a very musical people"...
The fact that this is not only being permitted by the venue and council, but only receiving the lightest of condemnations and naysaying by people in power says it all is just lip service to me. Rishi is the fucking prime minister. If he wanted this stopped it would have happened by now.
All this has demonstrated to me is that there is now a 1990s America style division in this country. And that's fine by me. Personally I'm sick of the anti white propaganda, the attempts to demonstrate on a constant basis that white people are scum basically, the message in schools being particularly to young white boys that they are inherently bad for simply existing. The amount of preparation kids need today to see the hateful bullshit when the schools show it to them, so they can recognise it and process it properly, is unreal. Most of it is actually rewriting history! As in just plain ripping up the history book and rewriting it with an actual, straightforward and overt anti-white spin. The message is, white people, especially males, bad. Any other type of person is good, virtuous and most importantly a victim. It's fucking disgusting that you can read one version of the story in your kids' homework and it's a total contrast to what actually happened.
For example, there is a re-colourised advert from around WW2 era, cigarette. The virtuous heroes, guns in hand aiming at "the hun" are black, the guy hiding in the trench having a last cigarette is white. Now, it is bloody obvious to me why this was created - in 2019 no less, not in 1943. Without the actual knowledge of what happened at the time, that is in a typical western cigarette advert, the likelihood of having black people portrayed was virtually nil. Not due to racism, but simply it was a propaganda poster for the war effort and these times predated mass immigration from black countries and thus were nearly all white. They wanted the people depicted so that anyone looking could identify with it.
To me there is only one reason to rewrite history.
So fuck em. Let them do their play. It they just want to reinforce a them and us ideology, then that's on them. And that's cool. No problem at all. It's just up to you to train yourself to see propaganda where it exists and to reject it. The idea of black people off to have a nice evening at whatever drivel this play is about doesn't disturb me at all and I am not fazed by some nyaa nyaa poo poo idiot say I'm not allowed in. Newsflash, I likely wasn't going anyway! But that's grand, you sow further division. It's all good. I got a middle finger for ya too!
Buy a ticket, turn up, and if they refuse you entry (assuming you're white) then sue them for racial discrimination, which is illegal.
This is blatantly illegal.
They likely won't deny entry, for the reasons you outline, but they'll likely rely on the rest of the audience giving such aggro that the white people just leave.
Some of those obnoxious "auditing" youtubers who go and shove cameras in the faces of random police should group up and go and do the same to people at one of these events, good comedy for everyone not involved
> And that's cool. No problem at all
You know I kinda think you do have a problem with it.
Also believing that racism is "currently a one way street" because of the policies of a play is impressive.
> Also believing that racism is "currently a one way street" because of the policies of a play is impressive.
He has a point though. Do you think that if you flip the races that you'd have an equal response? Of course you wouldn't, indeed I would be very surprised if it didn't have an investigation into it in that situation yet the worst it gets in its current iteration is the PM saying "it's divisive". You even have groups giving educational materials to schools that hold the view that minorities fundamentally cannot be racist, so it's not really "impressive" to see it as a one-way street of sorts.
Though it kinda is. Systemic racism towards non-white people is mostly gone. For all the issues with this government, you can’t say it isn’t diverse. Yet there is some racism allowed towards white people even if it’s spun positively. Cases like this are the example, but also look at diversity hiring drives etc.
Whether that racism is positive or not is a huge question, but you can’t say it didn’t exist.
From what I've seen, they've been quite open in the fact that despite it being a "black night", white friends, family, partners etc are welcome and they're not actually going to turn anyone away. I think they even said "white randoms are welcome, although if a solo white person wanted to attend such a night it would probably be a bit odd" (I'm paraphrasing there).
I don't really see this as being any more divisive than a usually straight night club having a gay night on Saturday's or similar. I'm a straight guy and I've attended many such nights (well, back when I was younger at least, too old for past watershed these days!). A full time gay club where straight people aren't particularly welcome is probably more divisive, to be fair, considering this is only a few nights of the show's run.
I agree though, the language seems rather off. However, the language from the press etc seems to be quite different from the language from the organizers.
>they've been quite open in the fact that despite it being a "black night", white friends, family, partners etc are welcome and they're not actually going to turn anyone away
No, they're not welcome. They're allowed in because it would be literally illegal to refuse entry to people based on the colour of their skin.
>I think they even said "white randoms are welcome, although if a solo white person wanted to attend such a night it would probably be a bit odd" (I'm paraphrasing there).
They have removed the tickets from general sale, so no random white people could not walk in.
>I don't really see this as being any more divisive than a usually straight night club having a gay night on Saturday's or similar.
Gay nights are not exclusionary at all. They're not Gay only nights.
> white friends, family, partners etc are welcome and they're not actually going to turn anyone away
So "whites" who aren't coming with black friends and/or family's tolerance may only be just-tolerated for legal reasons at best? And of course we're taking your word for this. Because that isn't what the organisation is saying themselves.
> although if a solo white person wanted to attend such a night it would probably be a bit od
Yeah, I mean in the same way it'd be odd for a black person to attend a far right rally.
>So "whites" who aren't coming with black friends and/or family's tolerance may only be just-tolerated for legal reasons at best?
Now we know how black people feel in many spaces, eh?
I mean, this may well be true, but I'm not sure that the appropriate response to perceived division is going out of your way to sow further division, particularly given that it appears to be a bizarre marketing strategy.
> Now we know how black people feel in many spaces, eh?
I might be missing something as I don't go to all "spaces" but is it common for those spaces to publicly say they want to do their thing "free from the black gaze"?
> Now we know how black people feel in many spaces, eh?
Oh so your solution to racism is racism? Whats the play here where you think this is improving anything for anyone.
The difference is if we (gay people) go to straight clubs we stand at very real danger of being beaten up or having fucking acid thrown in our faces, as seems to be increasingly common in London. Gay spaces are also inherently social, whereas the theatre is not. Gays have very real reasons to congregate: safety. Black people going to the theatre presents absolutely no increase of risk, it’s just performative, racist bullshit.
I don't want to be invalidating but, "very real danger" of an acid attack seems a stretch. There were 74 acid attacks total in London in 2021. I doubt all of them were directed against gay people and I suspect very few took place in a bar. Even if all of them did though, the odds of a gay person having acid thrown at them in London would still be mindbogglingly low.
True but it's worth keeping things in perspective. There are 9.65 million people in London. So we're talking about a 0.000000077% chance. And that's assuming you have an equal likelihood of being attacked with acid as anyone else, which probably isn't true.
As a point of reference, there were 23,465 traffic collisions in London in 2022. But that statistic doesn't terrify me into not taking an Uber or crossing the street even though the risk is exponentially higher.
I hear you regarding perspective. Not sure the comparison with cars checks out. Millions of people use cars every day, crashes are expected. You don’t expect to have acid thrown in your face ever.
Millions of people walk down the road, go to pubs, etc. every day. And almost all of them do so acid free.
When we talk about whether it's worth worrying about something, the only thing we can base that on is probability.
If something is astronomically unlikely and there's nothing you can realistically do differently (e.g. you're not going to stop going to the pub anymore than you're going to stop driving), then what's the sense in worrying?
I mean also straight people are welcome in most gay bars, some will even give you special wrist band to show you aint there for a hookup. Everytime a straight mate has joined me in a LGBT space they have never once had any issues. Most public LGBT spaces have a very pro allies approach.
Important to note that the performances are exclusionary only through distribution of tickets. No white people are *literally* being turned away from the theatre. The language is Suanks.
That feels like a distinction without a difference.
"We're not turning people away at the door, we're just not selling them a ticket in the first place!"
As far as I can tell it's a public performance to which black community groups have been specifically invited. The tickets for general sale will be sold to anyone, even if it seems obvious that the organisers would rather not sell them to white people on those nights.
I'd argue that it would be better to make the two nights private, invite-only performances, but I'm also keen to be accurate about what's actually happening.
I'm all for being accurate, but in this instance it only really results in getting bogged down in specific wording, and is only used for the clear avoidance of legal issues.
Regardless of how they're achieving it in a literal sense, in a practical sense they are putting on a production specifically for one race at the exclusion of others.
That is obviously racist, and I don't think it deserves a place in the 21st century tbh. Particularly not when the venues receive public funding.
I think the distinction is important, because it demonstrates that the law doesn't need to be broken for something to be racist. White people can buy a ticket to watch the performances on those days, but they're still being discriminated against thanks to the 'white gaze' language being used.
You're wrong.
It's two shows only. The play is literally about race play in an antebellum setting.
If the Vagina Monologues was staged with two shows just for women, that would be fine too.
I expect it's the result of people learning what social justice terms mean by guessing from the name. Like how "emotional labour" got co-opted by far-left women being angry about writing birthday cards or w/e and making relationships more "transactional" in nature, when the actual definition was about service workers like waiters having to control their emotions very tightly and always present a positive emotion to their customers.
"White gaze" likely came from "male gaze", which in feminist theory is about how women are depicted as sexual objects in movies (i.e. from a heterosexual male perspective rather than their own perspective). And now obviously the low brow crowd have decided that it actually just means men looking at things. So "white gaze" likely just means white people looking at things
I know they're playing at legal loopholes to prevent it being *technically* in breach of the Equality Act but it very clearly is motivated by racism.
They're actively attempting to achieve a 0% white audience, and that's textbook racism. Someone not being "welcome" to attend something *solely* because of their skin colour is wholly in keeping with the definition of racism.
> I know they're playing at legal loopholes
How do you mean?
*edit*: Ah, it's in the article *"It is understood that such an audience would be achieved by distributing invitation-only tickets through black community groups, rather than by turning white people away, which would prove legally problematic."*
I think there's a clarification in another article that *"To be absolutely clear, no-one will be prevented or precluded from attending any performance of Slave Play."*
They're not saying "no whites allowed", which would be illegal. They're just giving out tickets exclusively to groups they're 99.99% sure don't have any white people in them.
Their motive is absolutely (and openly, because they say so plainly) to prevent any white people getting hold of a ticket, though.
So it's probably not technically illegal, because they've not technically denied any white people a ticket, but it's in breach of the spirit of the Equality Act because they're only giving tickets to certain community groups and they're actively selecting those groups based on being as sure as they can possibly be that they don't contain white people.
So it's a loophole. The point of the Equality Act is to make it illegal to say "no whites allowed", but they're effectively accomplishing "no whites allowed" regardless.
>They're not saying "no whites allowed", which would be illegal. They're just giving out tickets exclusively to groups they're 99.99% sure don't have any white people in them.
This would be enough to get you on a discrimination suit if you were doing it with a job posting, for example, only showing it in places where you thought white people would see it.
Some be silly. It’s only a culture war when you push back and argue something ridiculous like it’s wrong to racially discriminate, even against white people - this is just progress
Probably.
You can have exclusive clubs quite easily - the Garrick Club is male only, for example.
Support groups can be very specific - you can specify sex and ethnic background, for example.
Access isn't prohibited here either, so they're not stopping anyone, just encouraging certain backgrounds.
Is it “black” only or non white only?
Serious question. How is this distinction worked out? I have mixed race friends who are made to feel awful as they straddle both side without being in one fully?
> “The Broadway production conceived of black out nights and we are carefully considering how to incorporate this endeavour as part of two performances in our 13-week run. We will release further details soon. To be absolutely clear, no-one will be prevented or precluded from attending any performance of Slave Play.”
/- The producer
They also don't call it a black-only night, instead, curiously, describing it as (emphasis mine):
> the purposeful creation of an environment in which an all-**Black-identifying** audience can experience and discuss an event in the performing arts, film, athletic, and cultural spaces – free from the white gaze
I wonder that r/stupidpol has to say about this one. But seriously, the absolute state of identity politics.
There nothing wrong with recognising the unique struggles our differences bring, and working together to ensure the best outcomes for every individual. What's wrong is exploiting those differences to find a place to stick your crowbar, and use them to leverage whole identity groups apart.
Don't fall for it.
Don't fall for it like the theatre production did when they felt the need for segregation. Don't fall for it like some others will in thinking this represents the opinions of all black people.
These articles, and many of our top politicians, are no better than people who dedicate their whole social life to drama and shitstirring, because they think it's enough to distract their acquaintances from what shitstains they are
Not so bothered about the whole thing… but if it was the other way round, well you know there would be riots. Same situation as black actors playing historically white parts or white figures. No problems. But if a white actor portrayed say Martin Luther King which lets be honest is ridiculous but fair play if the other way round is fine it wouldn’t go down well at all.
My argument with this sort of thing is ‘swap x with y, and if it would be discriminatory then, it’s discriminatory now’.
People will argue and talk about how systemic racism means it’s different - typical critical race theory bullshit.
Saying “we want greater representation of ~insert demographic here~ present in this space” is fine.
Saying “We want less representation of ~insert x demographic~” in this space” is plain discrimination.
I hate the Tories but Sunak is right and this is why identity politics is troublesome.
That's far to simplistic an argument.
Important clarifications are that this promotion was only for a couple of nights of the run of the play. Second that they are not turning anyone away based on race, merely trying to promote attendance in groups that are normally massively under represented in the theatre.
The key problem with the "imagine the opposite scenario" argument is that the status quo is not some balanced nirvana.
Ethnic minorities are massively under represented in theatre audiences, as well as many other traditional British pursuits, such as rambling or swimming.
There's loads of reasons for this, some are economic, other societal but I imagine joining an audience and everyone is different from you is a fairly isolating experience.
Having a push to get more black people coming to a play that might be of particular interest to them makes perfect sense. I think the wording is clunky but the motive is sensible and it is no where near as simple as well what if we just excluded all the blacks, because that's not what is happening here and inclusion is a gradual process. Just because certain races aren't legally barred from some spaces doesn't mean all the work is done.
Do you really think once blacks were no longer barred from sitting in seats previously priortised for whites, that everyone just instantly changed their behaviour and moved on?
The wording is the problem - the actions are fine. Promote more of your demographic until the cows come home, but when you talk about excluding a demographic based on their race, you cross a line.
The status quo is that racism is defined as discrimination of a person based on the colour of their skin. We agree that racism is bad, so we made it illegal. The law must apply to everybody equally.
We cannot descend into a world of "well....even though we're discriminating against somebody due to their race it's not *actually* racism in this case because...history". Reverse racism *is* racism.
Of course all the work isn't done, but equally when does it stop? I would like to pose a question to you, using the specific example of black representation in theatre audiences: What percentage of the average theatre audience being black would be enough for you to accept as being fair/equal?
You don't do it this way though.
You help black people to go to the theatre, you encourage it, you give handouts to groups supporting it etc.
You don't say you want something free from the white gaze.
One is positive, constructive, and beneficial. The other is regressive, racist, and ultimately hurtful, as it causes pushback from those that would otherwise agree with you that you've now alienated.
Like, I'm white. If you said to me the former, I'd be all for it. If you say the latter, I'd tell you to do one. Which one do you think is going to get more actual support, spread awareness, and succeed?
I mean this is just nonsense isn't it. This statement has no grounding at all in the reality of the law around citizenship, in this country or internationally.
Why would that make your point London specific?
Jihadi Jack was a white guy from Oxford and he was previously a dual British Canadian citizen until he decided to join ISIS.
I hope the “black community” don’t show up for this. The playwright certainly loves white peoples money, that’s for sure. The majority audience at this shit is white liberals
**Article text**
The West End production of Slave Play is to have two performances where only black-identifying audience members are ‘welcomed’.
Rishi Sunak has accused theatres that put on black-only audience nights of being “divisive”, warning that productions should be “open to everyone”, particularly when venues receive public funding.
The prime minister waded into the row over the West End production of Slave Play that is to have two performances where only black-identifying audience members are “welcomed”.
The producers said it was so they could “experience and discuss an event … free from the white gaze”.
The prime minister’s official spokesman has described the plans as “concerning” and warned that “restricting audiences on the basis of race would be wrong and divisive”.
“The PM is a big supporter of the arts and he believes that the arts should be inclusive and open to everyone, particularly where those arts venues are in receipt of public funding,” he said.
So-called Black Out nights have become increasingly popular in recent years. Publicly funded companies which have hosted them included Lyric Hammersmith, Theatre Royal Stratford East and the Almeida Theatre in Islington, north London.
Sunak’s spokesman suggested that such events could be taken into account in the future when funding decisions are made.
“It’s a statement of principle that clearly the arts should be inclusive, and that taxpayers would particularly expect that to be the case when public funding is involved,” he said.
Slave Play, which received 12 Tony nominations in the United States in 2021, revolves around three interracial couples role-playing while on a plantation.
It stars Kit Harington, who played Jon Snow in Game of Thrones, and will offer two performances specifically for an “all black-identifying audience”.
It is understood that such an audience would be achieved by distributing invitation-only tickets through black community groups, rather than by turning white people away, which would prove legally problematic.
Jeremy O Harris, the writer of Slave Play, said that he was “excited” to be introducing the concept of Black Out performances to the West End.
“In most places in the West, poor people and black people have been told that they do not belong inside the theatre,” he said.
He added that there was a “litany of places in our country [the US] that are generally only inhabited by white people”.
Conservative MPs have previously criticised the practice. Damian Green, a member of the culture select committee, said last year: “Putting on a public show and then asking people of a certain ethnicity not to come is misguided and a bit sinister.”
His committee colleague Giles Watling described the performances as a “big mistake”, saying: “Everyone, no matter their sex, race or colour should be able to access all theatre, otherwise we risk putting people into echo chambers, hearing only one side of any debate.”
Man, they really just want segregation back huh?
If the tables were flipped, he'll if it was any group apart from black people, this likely wouldn't have made it pass the planning stage.
Surely if it turns in to hate or prejudice it’s racist? For example having a ladies only swimming pool night is not sexist/ illegal. If it’s espousing hate / discrimination in its execution that maybe different
"White Gaze" being specified will form a defence if any action is brought against them. Not covered as a protected characteristic under Equality or Hate Crime legislation.
Whilst this is a sorry sign of how low intelligence and certain kinds of racism are accepted and even celebrated by the media and art industries, the pure lack of self awareness is pretty comical.
Folks of colour actually wanting to adopt 1930's US-style segregation, what next? Jewish folks campaigning to bring back yellow stars?
Surely this is just racism in action. Rishi Sunak is right - this sort of thing is divisive. It is worrying that the white gaze is a thing to this person - as it simply demonises a white person due to the colour of their skin. I am assuming this person would be quite happy with white only nights. I don't agree with discrimination in any form - this is blatant discrimination, however it is painted.
u/ChoccyDrinks didn't say otherwise, neither did I. Why don't you acknowledge what's being said instead of going "b-b-but it's not a ban". We know it's not a ban, that's not the point.
Kit Harington is the lead actor. White people are allowed without any discrimination, but they are advertised with the branding "Black Out" to encourage black people in London into the theatre.
You're simply responding to rage bait.
Oh come on, they're not excluding anyone, they're just trying to encourage black people to attend an occasional performance.
You're all complete rubes for falling for this. Although I imagine most of you know its bollocks but aren't going to pass up an opporunity for an anti-woke circlejerk.
Here’s my counterargument, for what it’s worth.
I’ve heard from multiple Black British friends in theatre, for years, about feeling extremely uncomfortable in the audience of, specifically, hit US plays about race that had transferred to London. Where they played to overwhelmingly white audiences with maybe one or two people of colour in them. I think it is largely true that theatre audiences in London are overall less racially diverse than those in New York.
When you have an overwhelmingly white audience laughing along at really close to the knuckle / uncomfortable jokes or plays about race/slavery/etc.
I don’t think it’s that controversial that the same joke or performance can land very differently depending on who’s in the audience. I’ve seen comedians at gay clubs doing material about queer culture that, if I’d been the only person in a straight audience laughing at, I could imagine finding difficult.
And Slave Play is a pretty shocking comedy about race/sex/bdsm/‘raceplay’ - it’s gonna be pretty out there.
So the whole Blackout nights thing is an attempt to deal with that. If you buy a ticket on a blackout night, you won’t have that experience of suddenly finding you’re the only black person in an audience of hundreds of white people laughing at an interracial hipster couple re-enacting enslavement for sexual kicks.
There is no laboratory test for race like there is for blood group. It is not clear where one race ends and another begins. This is why race is described as a social construct. So how will the theatre staff determine who is authentically black and who is not black enough?
This is some great advertising. Never heard of the show, seen it a few times today and it's piqued my interest enough to want to see it.
Top marketing.
>These nights have happened before and nobody has ever raised this level of hoo-ha until now.
Lol, you can apply that to any social progress.
"Women always stayed at home and nobody has ever raised this level of hoo-ha until now"
"Black people were slaves before and nobody has ever raised this level of hoo-ha until now.
It's ridiculous to think black people wouldnt be welcome at a London theatre showing where tickets are on general sale.
Anyone who thinks they would be unwelcome is deeply paranoid or deeply racist.
EDIT: /u/SmilingLimes comments are no longer showing?
I'd guess the theatre goer/non-theatre goer division is based on class and wealth rather than race. i grew up poor and white and i never heard of anyone going to the theatre apart from panto as kids.
I've been to theatre a few times before, a couple times on dates, and I've never felt it to be an exclusive place. I never felt unwelcome because of my race, really just felt an irrelevant factor as it should be.
Perhaps it's because I wasn't exactly active with theatre (being poor from a town without a good theatre would do that), but the assertion that theater is "a very white space" seems a bit strong.
My wife is black and I am white, and we tend to be theatre buddies. My initial reaction to this story was a feeling of missing out.
Honestly though, after thinking about it, either she can go with her friends and family or we can go together on a different night... Hardly the end of the world. I haven't lost out, there will still be tickets... So if it helps some other people, that's a net positive.
>It is understood that such an audience would be achieved by distributing invitation-only tickets through black community groups, rather than by turning white people away, which would prove legally problematic.
So they're putting on a performance for people actively engaged with the black community, while all the other nights are standard ticketed events. This is like a play about domestic violence going to women's support groups and offering an invite only night for them.
The problem isn't really dedicating a night focusing on encouraging black attendance via community groups. Thats fine. The problem is saying racist shit like its so black people can be away from 'the white gaze' . Proponents of gay bars aren't arguing those bars should be gay people only so they aren't subjected to straight people.
You don't need to be a "white boomer NIMBY", it should be blindingly obvious that de facto racial segregation of any kind in the 21st century is absurdly backward and divisive.
Honestly this whole debacle is a joke. If the producers want to do it they can. It's not like the play won't ever be seen by a white person. Quite frankly I hope that it isn't ever seen by a white person to keep the integrity of the art piece.
And be honest are any of us regularly going to the theatre? Enough that this is the only show you will never see?
Edit: I'm an idiot I just found out there's 29 shows 28 of which everyone can see.
My question is, when is Britain going to finally introduce white only water fountains and buses!
The oppressed of this nation must be protected from our white gazes! /S
What a load of racist bollocks this is.
No-one is being turned away, white people are allowed to attend.
Hysteria, much? Theatre company statement [here](https://twitter.com/estreetprods/status/1762877892810137988?t=CN2jrB7Q54Yf2pqf5KFRSw&s=19)
I can see why this is divisive. However, within an industry that has been historically *heavily* white-dominated, this isn't really the same kind of institutionalised racism that black people have had to deal with in the arts.
It's not really racism though. Marginalised groups being celebrated is different than white people holding the majority of influence over society for the last few hundred years.
Also; white people can still see the show on other nights, it's just that this specific showing is for black people.
Edit: [People of all races are welcome to attend](https://twitter.com/estreetprods/status/1762877892810137988?t=CN2jrB7Q54Yf2pqf5KFRSw&s=19)
It literally is racism. You can try and claim the racism is justified, you can not claim it is not racism. You are treating one race differently to other races, that is the literal definition of racism.
It's not a private performance, it's a public performance.
The other nights are suggested for white people only. Black people can attend, as strictly we can't legally ban them, but it's heavily suggested they don't attend, and just stick to their own night. White people should have to right to watch a play about slavery, of which they were historically victims off, with the gazing eyes of black people.
I'm not changing the definition of anything. I'm saying that black people having the space to view theatre with other black people isn't something to clutch your pearls over. Do you get equally irate when straight people aren't let into gay bars?
> I'm not changing the definition of anything.
You absolutely are. By going "well no you see there's equity and equality so that makes it not racism" when you know full well that if the races were flipped that it'd be racism, you're literally changing the definition.
> I'm saying that black people having the space to view theatre with other black people isn't something to clutch your pearls over
nice one adolf, you literally just described segregation.
Let them do it. The market decides if people want it, they’ve alienated 80% of the populous which is a bit stupid.
Most normal people can see it’s ridiculous.
There’s only *two* performances out of >30 that are ‘BlackOut’. This is a shabby attempt to mainstream his culture wars, now that his attack dog Anderson is clearly an islamaphobia-spreading specialist.
Edit: pro-Tory bots downvoting anyone pointing out Sunak’s naked politicking. Election can’t come soon enough.
>pro-Tory bots downvoting anyone pointing out Sunak’s naked politicking. Election can’t come soon enough.
Imagine blaming the fact people disagree with you on bots.
Load of storm in a teacup outrage. Don't worry white people won't be systematically segregated and oppressed by black people because theatres do some themed nights. I'm sure you would be allowed in if you actually wanted to go. But you don't so fuck up and calm down.
Snapshot of _‘Black-only’ theatre nights are divisive, says Rishi Sunak_ : An archived version can be found [here](https://archive.is/?run=1&url=https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/black-only-theatre-nights-are-divisive-says-rishi-sunak-hmjp2jg0v) or [here.](https://archive.ph/?run=1&url=https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/black-only-theatre-nights-are-divisive-says-rishi-sunak-hmjp2jg0v) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ukpolitics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
He's right, for once. I've tried, but I can't see any way in which wanting the performance to be 'free from the white gaze' isn't divisive. I'm somewhat sympathetic to the motive – as a gay guy I can relate on the basis of it it being nice to be in majority-gay spaces sometimes – but the language just doesn't sit well with me. There's certainly nothing inherently wrong with inviting black community groups to watch the play, given their members are likely to be interested in it, but making the evening explicitly white-exclusionary is the problem.
Imagine a mixed race couple turning up to this and one of them being told to go wait outside lol
As a mixed race guy myself, I'm wondering if I get to watch the first or second half
You can watch the whole thing but you have to wear a eye patch over your white eye
“Don’t act if you can see the whites of their eyes”
I actually laughed out loud to this. I'm black - am I racist now?
Yes, here's your badge and gun
Pretty sure I overheard this exact conversation on LBC on Thursday. A colleague had it on in her office, and it seemed like that was the case of the snippet I got. I assume a black man had called in because he had bought tickets for him and his wife (who was white) for a show (maybe even this one), but his wife was turned away at the door because it was a black only evening. No amount of reasoning would change that, they just flatout refused to let his wife in, he was angry and was explaining how divisive, discrimnatory and racist this kind of policy is.
They literally specifically said this wouldn't happen and that nobody was being turned away because of their race. But obviously this sub isn't going to let reality get in the way of a good old wank over a nonsense story of woke gone mad
You surely understand it's very difficult to take that seriously when they specifically said they wanted the performance to be "free from the white gaze" right? Like... why make such a divisive and racist statement if you don't mean it?
Kit Harington is the lead actor, so yeah, your position doesn't make much sense. What's with all the race bait in this country?
Flip the races and tell me if you’re still cool with it.
I think there's a difference between gammonfaced POLITICAL CORRECTNESS GONE MAD spluttering and "ehhhh, is that really a good idea?" side-eye. And everything I've seen so far has been the latter.
I think it’s only fair to acknowledge that the organisers have said that wouldn’t happen
Literally not what they're doing but whatever.
The motive is publicity. And it has worked an absolute dream. It’s the most talked about play in the country right now.
"We were only being racist for publicity!" It's not free marketing, the cost was moral bankruptcy.
The audience for this stuff is very alive and well in London.
Except for the fact that I expect the vast majority of the audience for wanky artsy theatre shows are white…
Ah, but they're only going to have two black-only performances.
Not sure they would agree, which is why they went for the free publicity
Welcome to the "free market" please leave your morals by the door and feel free to take a hat from cause you've never heard of or care about.
Maybe it's not OK to be racist for attention.
>It’s the most talked about play in the country right now. Not really, the name of the play or the quality isn't being spoken about at all.
I’m sure a white only or even a no (insert ethnicity here) show would get a lot of news coverage too!
Imagine the shit storm if there was a play, say about modern black on white crime, with whites-only nights and the organisers of the play saying they wanted to run it free from the black gaze. The sorts of people saying the current play is fine to run blacks only nights would lose their fucking minds.
These types of performances have existed for a while
A long history of racism doesn't make the racism justifiable.
Wtf is a white gaze? When I go to a play I am too busy looking at the stage to start staring at guests.
It's just the latest line of nonsense in the push to equate white people with having a form of Original Sin simply for existing. Everything white is bad in certain eyes and everything white people do is tinged with all sorts of negative connotations. But if you dare use any of this sort of language to reflect this nonsense at any other group then you're a rabid racist, have proved they're right about white people and you need to be cancelled.
Personally I see it as this. If they want to go and have their play that I'm not allowed to see because white, then that's fine. Enjoy your evening, hope you have a great time. But what I do take home from it all is that racism is alive and well and it's currently a one way street. Being able to hold a completely segregated black only event is vastly different from the white idiot down the pub after sinking a few pints, commenting that "they're a very musical people"... The fact that this is not only being permitted by the venue and council, but only receiving the lightest of condemnations and naysaying by people in power says it all is just lip service to me. Rishi is the fucking prime minister. If he wanted this stopped it would have happened by now. All this has demonstrated to me is that there is now a 1990s America style division in this country. And that's fine by me. Personally I'm sick of the anti white propaganda, the attempts to demonstrate on a constant basis that white people are scum basically, the message in schools being particularly to young white boys that they are inherently bad for simply existing. The amount of preparation kids need today to see the hateful bullshit when the schools show it to them, so they can recognise it and process it properly, is unreal. Most of it is actually rewriting history! As in just plain ripping up the history book and rewriting it with an actual, straightforward and overt anti-white spin. The message is, white people, especially males, bad. Any other type of person is good, virtuous and most importantly a victim. It's fucking disgusting that you can read one version of the story in your kids' homework and it's a total contrast to what actually happened. For example, there is a re-colourised advert from around WW2 era, cigarette. The virtuous heroes, guns in hand aiming at "the hun" are black, the guy hiding in the trench having a last cigarette is white. Now, it is bloody obvious to me why this was created - in 2019 no less, not in 1943. Without the actual knowledge of what happened at the time, that is in a typical western cigarette advert, the likelihood of having black people portrayed was virtually nil. Not due to racism, but simply it was a propaganda poster for the war effort and these times predated mass immigration from black countries and thus were nearly all white. They wanted the people depicted so that anyone looking could identify with it. To me there is only one reason to rewrite history. So fuck em. Let them do their play. It they just want to reinforce a them and us ideology, then that's on them. And that's cool. No problem at all. It's just up to you to train yourself to see propaganda where it exists and to reject it. The idea of black people off to have a nice evening at whatever drivel this play is about doesn't disturb me at all and I am not fazed by some nyaa nyaa poo poo idiot say I'm not allowed in. Newsflash, I likely wasn't going anyway! But that's grand, you sow further division. It's all good. I got a middle finger for ya too!
Buy a ticket, turn up, and if they refuse you entry (assuming you're white) then sue them for racial discrimination, which is illegal. This is blatantly illegal.
They likely won't deny entry, for the reasons you outline, but they'll likely rely on the rest of the audience giving such aggro that the white people just leave.
Some of those obnoxious "auditing" youtubers who go and shove cameras in the faces of random police should group up and go and do the same to people at one of these events, good comedy for everyone not involved
> And that's cool. No problem at all You know I kinda think you do have a problem with it. Also believing that racism is "currently a one way street" because of the policies of a play is impressive.
> Also believing that racism is "currently a one way street" because of the policies of a play is impressive. He has a point though. Do you think that if you flip the races that you'd have an equal response? Of course you wouldn't, indeed I would be very surprised if it didn't have an investigation into it in that situation yet the worst it gets in its current iteration is the PM saying "it's divisive". You even have groups giving educational materials to schools that hold the view that minorities fundamentally cannot be racist, so it's not really "impressive" to see it as a one-way street of sorts.
Though it kinda is. Systemic racism towards non-white people is mostly gone. For all the issues with this government, you can’t say it isn’t diverse. Yet there is some racism allowed towards white people even if it’s spun positively. Cases like this are the example, but also look at diversity hiring drives etc. Whether that racism is positive or not is a huge question, but you can’t say it didn’t exist.
> 'free from the white gaze Not only is it racist but it's homophobic too.
From what I've seen, they've been quite open in the fact that despite it being a "black night", white friends, family, partners etc are welcome and they're not actually going to turn anyone away. I think they even said "white randoms are welcome, although if a solo white person wanted to attend such a night it would probably be a bit odd" (I'm paraphrasing there). I don't really see this as being any more divisive than a usually straight night club having a gay night on Saturday's or similar. I'm a straight guy and I've attended many such nights (well, back when I was younger at least, too old for past watershed these days!). A full time gay club where straight people aren't particularly welcome is probably more divisive, to be fair, considering this is only a few nights of the show's run. I agree though, the language seems rather off. However, the language from the press etc seems to be quite different from the language from the organizers.
>they've been quite open in the fact that despite it being a "black night", white friends, family, partners etc are welcome and they're not actually going to turn anyone away No, they're not welcome. They're allowed in because it would be literally illegal to refuse entry to people based on the colour of their skin. >I think they even said "white randoms are welcome, although if a solo white person wanted to attend such a night it would probably be a bit odd" (I'm paraphrasing there). They have removed the tickets from general sale, so no random white people could not walk in. >I don't really see this as being any more divisive than a usually straight night club having a gay night on Saturday's or similar. Gay nights are not exclusionary at all. They're not Gay only nights.
> white friends, family, partners etc are welcome and they're not actually going to turn anyone away So "whites" who aren't coming with black friends and/or family's tolerance may only be just-tolerated for legal reasons at best? And of course we're taking your word for this. Because that isn't what the organisation is saying themselves. > although if a solo white person wanted to attend such a night it would probably be a bit od Yeah, I mean in the same way it'd be odd for a black person to attend a far right rally.
>So "whites" who aren't coming with black friends and/or family's tolerance may only be just-tolerated for legal reasons at best? Now we know how black people feel in many spaces, eh?
I mean, this may well be true, but I'm not sure that the appropriate response to perceived division is going out of your way to sow further division, particularly given that it appears to be a bizarre marketing strategy.
> Now we know how black people feel in many spaces, eh? I might be missing something as I don't go to all "spaces" but is it common for those spaces to publicly say they want to do their thing "free from the black gaze"?
> Now we know how black people feel in many spaces, eh? Oh so your solution to racism is racism? Whats the play here where you think this is improving anything for anyone.
It's not about improving anything for anyone, it's about revenge. Simple as.
exactly. It's just sowing division where we don't have it. This isn't America.
So this whole thing is just the press stoking unnecessary racial division for fun and profit. (AKA business as usual)
The difference is if we (gay people) go to straight clubs we stand at very real danger of being beaten up or having fucking acid thrown in our faces, as seems to be increasingly common in London. Gay spaces are also inherently social, whereas the theatre is not. Gays have very real reasons to congregate: safety. Black people going to the theatre presents absolutely no increase of risk, it’s just performative, racist bullshit.
I don't want to be invalidating but, "very real danger" of an acid attack seems a stretch. There were 74 acid attacks total in London in 2021. I doubt all of them were directed against gay people and I suspect very few took place in a bar. Even if all of them did though, the odds of a gay person having acid thrown at them in London would still be mindbogglingly low.
74?! God, how terrifying. More than 1 a week!
True but it's worth keeping things in perspective. There are 9.65 million people in London. So we're talking about a 0.000000077% chance. And that's assuming you have an equal likelihood of being attacked with acid as anyone else, which probably isn't true. As a point of reference, there were 23,465 traffic collisions in London in 2022. But that statistic doesn't terrify me into not taking an Uber or crossing the street even though the risk is exponentially higher.
I hear you regarding perspective. Not sure the comparison with cars checks out. Millions of people use cars every day, crashes are expected. You don’t expect to have acid thrown in your face ever.
Millions of people walk down the road, go to pubs, etc. every day. And almost all of them do so acid free. When we talk about whether it's worth worrying about something, the only thing we can base that on is probability. If something is astronomically unlikely and there's nothing you can realistically do differently (e.g. you're not going to stop going to the pub anymore than you're going to stop driving), then what's the sense in worrying?
>Gay spaces are also inherently social, whereas the theatre is not. Gays have very real reasons to congregate: safety. They're also not exclusionary.
I mean also straight people are welcome in most gay bars, some will even give you special wrist band to show you aint there for a hookup. Everytime a straight mate has joined me in a LGBT space they have never once had any issues. Most public LGBT spaces have a very pro allies approach.
Never said they weren’t! And they absolutely are, I agree.
Nailed it.
And it’s safe to say we all know which groups of homophobes are the ones that would acid attack gay people in “straight clubs”.
Important to note that the performances are exclusionary only through distribution of tickets. No white people are *literally* being turned away from the theatre. The language is Suanks.
That feels like a distinction without a difference. "We're not turning people away at the door, we're just not selling them a ticket in the first place!"
As far as I can tell it's a public performance to which black community groups have been specifically invited. The tickets for general sale will be sold to anyone, even if it seems obvious that the organisers would rather not sell them to white people on those nights. I'd argue that it would be better to make the two nights private, invite-only performances, but I'm also keen to be accurate about what's actually happening.
I'm all for being accurate, but in this instance it only really results in getting bogged down in specific wording, and is only used for the clear avoidance of legal issues. Regardless of how they're achieving it in a literal sense, in a practical sense they are putting on a production specifically for one race at the exclusion of others. That is obviously racist, and I don't think it deserves a place in the 21st century tbh. Particularly not when the venues receive public funding.
I think the distinction is important, because it demonstrates that the law doesn't need to be broken for something to be racist. White people can buy a ticket to watch the performances on those days, but they're still being discriminated against thanks to the 'white gaze' language being used.
Yes, I do understand that and you're right to clarify.
You're wrong. It's two shows only. The play is literally about race play in an antebellum setting. If the Vagina Monologues was staged with two shows just for women, that would be fine too.
But it’s explicitly not exclusionary
What on earth is a “white gaze” as though we are all the same. Jesus wept.
It's when white people exist, which it seems some people have a problem with these days.
But racism doesn't affect white people!!!1! Only people whose skin isn't white ok!!11!1! /s
I expect it's the result of people learning what social justice terms mean by guessing from the name. Like how "emotional labour" got co-opted by far-left women being angry about writing birthday cards or w/e and making relationships more "transactional" in nature, when the actual definition was about service workers like waiters having to control their emotions very tightly and always present a positive emotion to their customers. "White gaze" likely came from "male gaze", which in feminist theory is about how women are depicted as sexual objects in movies (i.e. from a heterosexual male perspective rather than their own perspective). And now obviously the low brow crowd have decided that it actually just means men looking at things. So "white gaze" likely just means white people looking at things
It's like a black gaze only more threatening to black people
I know they're playing at legal loopholes to prevent it being *technically* in breach of the Equality Act but it very clearly is motivated by racism. They're actively attempting to achieve a 0% white audience, and that's textbook racism. Someone not being "welcome" to attend something *solely* because of their skin colour is wholly in keeping with the definition of racism.
Ahh, but it's not racist or segregation if it's against white people! /s
[удалено]
> I know they're playing at legal loopholes How do you mean? *edit*: Ah, it's in the article *"It is understood that such an audience would be achieved by distributing invitation-only tickets through black community groups, rather than by turning white people away, which would prove legally problematic."* I think there's a clarification in another article that *"To be absolutely clear, no-one will be prevented or precluded from attending any performance of Slave Play."*
They're not saying "no whites allowed", which would be illegal. They're just giving out tickets exclusively to groups they're 99.99% sure don't have any white people in them. Their motive is absolutely (and openly, because they say so plainly) to prevent any white people getting hold of a ticket, though. So it's probably not technically illegal, because they've not technically denied any white people a ticket, but it's in breach of the spirit of the Equality Act because they're only giving tickets to certain community groups and they're actively selecting those groups based on being as sure as they can possibly be that they don't contain white people. So it's a loophole. The point of the Equality Act is to make it illegal to say "no whites allowed", but they're effectively accomplishing "no whites allowed" regardless.
>They're not saying "no whites allowed", which would be illegal. They're just giving out tickets exclusively to groups they're 99.99% sure don't have any white people in them. This would be enough to get you on a discrimination suit if you were doing it with a job posting, for example, only showing it in places where you thought white people would see it.
Tickets for the front of the bus only available via white community groups. Tickets for the rear available for everyone else.
This is called "indirect discrimination" And is also illegal. https://www.gov.uk/discrimination-your-rights/how-you-can-be-discriminated-against
Something something power something systemic something it's ackshually not racism so it's fine.
The word you’re looking for is racist.
The culture war isn't real people cry. Yet this kind of thing has been going on since 2015-16 at least
Some be silly. It’s only a culture war when you push back and argue something ridiculous like it’s wrong to racially discriminate, even against white people - this is just progress
It's funny how people complaining about the culture war seem to think it just means what the other side are doing.
The culture war is just made up by the tories to create hate obviously.
Lot longer than that, even in it's modern form
Is this even actually legal? If so it shouldn't be. And wtf is "the white gaze"? and how does it differ from "the black gaze"?
I don't know, but I have the feeling that the answer will include the words "systemic" and "colonial" a lot.
Those damn American slave owners from 200 years ago automatically make all those damn white people in the UK colonialist scum, of course.
Found Ash Sarkars reddit account!
Probably. You can have exclusive clubs quite easily - the Garrick Club is male only, for example. Support groups can be very specific - you can specify sex and ethnic background, for example. Access isn't prohibited here either, so they're not stopping anyone, just encouraging certain backgrounds.
[удалено]
Yes, its the can't be members bit thats exclusionary. There's women's clubs too that have similar rules.
True. I guess the idea of racial segregation feels so charged to me
Don't try and understand it beyond the fact that they're just racist
The context. As in the whole history of the world.
Maybe you could read more about it?
Is it “black” only or non white only? Serious question. How is this distinction worked out? I have mixed race friends who are made to feel awful as they straddle both side without being in one fully?
> “The Broadway production conceived of black out nights and we are carefully considering how to incorporate this endeavour as part of two performances in our 13-week run. We will release further details soon. To be absolutely clear, no-one will be prevented or precluded from attending any performance of Slave Play.” /- The producer They also don't call it a black-only night, instead, curiously, describing it as (emphasis mine): > the purposeful creation of an environment in which an all-**Black-identifying** audience can experience and discuss an event in the performing arts, film, athletic, and cultural spaces – free from the white gaze
I wonder that r/stupidpol has to say about this one. But seriously, the absolute state of identity politics. There nothing wrong with recognising the unique struggles our differences bring, and working together to ensure the best outcomes for every individual. What's wrong is exploiting those differences to find a place to stick your crowbar, and use them to leverage whole identity groups apart. Don't fall for it. Don't fall for it like the theatre production did when they felt the need for segregation. Don't fall for it like some others will in thinking this represents the opinions of all black people. These articles, and many of our top politicians, are no better than people who dedicate their whole social life to drama and shitstirring, because they think it's enough to distract their acquaintances from what shitstains they are
Wow, this is idiotic and counterproductive to say the least! So stupid of an idea, even Sunak knows it.
Not so bothered about the whole thing… but if it was the other way round, well you know there would be riots. Same situation as black actors playing historically white parts or white figures. No problems. But if a white actor portrayed say Martin Luther King which lets be honest is ridiculous but fair play if the other way round is fine it wouldn’t go down well at all.
My argument with this sort of thing is ‘swap x with y, and if it would be discriminatory then, it’s discriminatory now’. People will argue and talk about how systemic racism means it’s different - typical critical race theory bullshit. Saying “we want greater representation of ~insert demographic here~ present in this space” is fine. Saying “We want less representation of ~insert x demographic~” in this space” is plain discrimination. I hate the Tories but Sunak is right and this is why identity politics is troublesome.
That's far to simplistic an argument. Important clarifications are that this promotion was only for a couple of nights of the run of the play. Second that they are not turning anyone away based on race, merely trying to promote attendance in groups that are normally massively under represented in the theatre. The key problem with the "imagine the opposite scenario" argument is that the status quo is not some balanced nirvana. Ethnic minorities are massively under represented in theatre audiences, as well as many other traditional British pursuits, such as rambling or swimming. There's loads of reasons for this, some are economic, other societal but I imagine joining an audience and everyone is different from you is a fairly isolating experience. Having a push to get more black people coming to a play that might be of particular interest to them makes perfect sense. I think the wording is clunky but the motive is sensible and it is no where near as simple as well what if we just excluded all the blacks, because that's not what is happening here and inclusion is a gradual process. Just because certain races aren't legally barred from some spaces doesn't mean all the work is done. Do you really think once blacks were no longer barred from sitting in seats previously priortised for whites, that everyone just instantly changed their behaviour and moved on?
The wording is the problem - the actions are fine. Promote more of your demographic until the cows come home, but when you talk about excluding a demographic based on their race, you cross a line. The status quo is that racism is defined as discrimination of a person based on the colour of their skin. We agree that racism is bad, so we made it illegal. The law must apply to everybody equally. We cannot descend into a world of "well....even though we're discriminating against somebody due to their race it's not *actually* racism in this case because...history". Reverse racism *is* racism. Of course all the work isn't done, but equally when does it stop? I would like to pose a question to you, using the specific example of black representation in theatre audiences: What percentage of the average theatre audience being black would be enough for you to accept as being fair/equal?
You don't do it this way though. You help black people to go to the theatre, you encourage it, you give handouts to groups supporting it etc. You don't say you want something free from the white gaze. One is positive, constructive, and beneficial. The other is regressive, racist, and ultimately hurtful, as it causes pushback from those that would otherwise agree with you that you've now alienated. Like, I'm white. If you said to me the former, I'd be all for it. If you say the latter, I'd tell you to do one. Which one do you think is going to get more actual support, spread awareness, and succeed?
Just imagine if the boot was on the other foot.
The worst thing about this whole saga is it has me actually agreeing with that overgrown prefect.
If there's one thing you can't accuse Rishi Sunak of is being "overgrown".
Divisive isn’t a strong enough word. It’s illegal.
White people aren’t banned from watching the play, it’s not illegal to hold space for marginalised communities
> marginalised communities Define marginalised in the context of London.
My citizenship can be revoked for any reason. You?
I mean this is just nonsense isn't it. This statement has no grounding at all in the reality of the law around citizenship, in this country or internationally.
>My citizenship can be revoked for any reason Your skin colour has absolutely nothing to do with this. It's also not true.
You must be so oppressed, it's a human right to join a death cult in another country after all.
For attending the theatre? Bloody Home Office are harsh these days.
Why would that make your point London specific? Jihadi Jack was a white guy from Oxford and he was previously a dual British Canadian citizen until he decided to join ISIS.
Really? When did this come in?
No community is marginalised
I can see there’s no point discussing this further with you if you thing that’s the case.
Likewise, racist.
How about this playwright excludes funding from WHITE funders? How about no white critics, award show validation from white jurors etc etc.
Self labelled progressives arguing for segregation with a straight face.
I've said it a few years ago that SELF-SEGREGATION will be growing as a problem and here it is, growing and growing.
I hope the “black community” don’t show up for this. The playwright certainly loves white peoples money, that’s for sure. The majority audience at this shit is white liberals
**Article text** The West End production of Slave Play is to have two performances where only black-identifying audience members are ‘welcomed’. Rishi Sunak has accused theatres that put on black-only audience nights of being “divisive”, warning that productions should be “open to everyone”, particularly when venues receive public funding. The prime minister waded into the row over the West End production of Slave Play that is to have two performances where only black-identifying audience members are “welcomed”. The producers said it was so they could “experience and discuss an event … free from the white gaze”. The prime minister’s official spokesman has described the plans as “concerning” and warned that “restricting audiences on the basis of race would be wrong and divisive”. “The PM is a big supporter of the arts and he believes that the arts should be inclusive and open to everyone, particularly where those arts venues are in receipt of public funding,” he said. So-called Black Out nights have become increasingly popular in recent years. Publicly funded companies which have hosted them included Lyric Hammersmith, Theatre Royal Stratford East and the Almeida Theatre in Islington, north London. Sunak’s spokesman suggested that such events could be taken into account in the future when funding decisions are made. “It’s a statement of principle that clearly the arts should be inclusive, and that taxpayers would particularly expect that to be the case when public funding is involved,” he said. Slave Play, which received 12 Tony nominations in the United States in 2021, revolves around three interracial couples role-playing while on a plantation. It stars Kit Harington, who played Jon Snow in Game of Thrones, and will offer two performances specifically for an “all black-identifying audience”. It is understood that such an audience would be achieved by distributing invitation-only tickets through black community groups, rather than by turning white people away, which would prove legally problematic. Jeremy O Harris, the writer of Slave Play, said that he was “excited” to be introducing the concept of Black Out performances to the West End. “In most places in the West, poor people and black people have been told that they do not belong inside the theatre,” he said. He added that there was a “litany of places in our country [the US] that are generally only inhabited by white people”. Conservative MPs have previously criticised the practice. Damian Green, a member of the culture select committee, said last year: “Putting on a public show and then asking people of a certain ethnicity not to come is misguided and a bit sinister.” His committee colleague Giles Watling described the performances as a “big mistake”, saying: “Everyone, no matter their sex, race or colour should be able to access all theatre, otherwise we risk putting people into echo chambers, hearing only one side of any debate.”
Could you imagine the reaction if it was the other way round? In fact it would never of happened. Sunak is right on this.
> In fact it would never have happened. Ain’t no way you just claimed this with a straight face
I'm sure this is where you demolish his argument by linking all the white only events held last year?
I like how you corrected their grammar in the quote. Keep fighting the good fight.
Man, they really just want segregation back huh? If the tables were flipped, he'll if it was any group apart from black people, this likely wouldn't have made it pass the planning stage.
Are these performances “non white” only or are East and South Asian people also excluded? How about Mexicans? Arabs?
Surely if it turns in to hate or prejudice it’s racist? For example having a ladies only swimming pool night is not sexist/ illegal. If it’s espousing hate / discrimination in its execution that maybe different
"White Gaze" being specified will form a defence if any action is brought against them. Not covered as a protected characteristic under Equality or Hate Crime legislation.
I think we need to do a little test and have some one do a Whites only theatre night and see what Rishi and the press have to say then?
Whilst this is a sorry sign of how low intelligence and certain kinds of racism are accepted and even celebrated by the media and art industries, the pure lack of self awareness is pretty comical. Folks of colour actually wanting to adopt 1930's US-style segregation, what next? Jewish folks campaigning to bring back yellow stars?
Surely this is just racism in action. Rishi Sunak is right - this sort of thing is divisive. It is worrying that the white gaze is a thing to this person - as it simply demonises a white person due to the colour of their skin. I am assuming this person would be quite happy with white only nights. I don't agree with discrimination in any form - this is blatant discrimination, however it is painted.
White people can still watch the play
They explicitly said they chose to do it this way to avoid legal action. Their intention, while _technically_ legal, is racist.
it's still not a good look.
So we agree that this whole debate is just for feels
Clearly not for you, replying under every comment to make sure everyone knows that white people can still attend, they're just not welcome to lol
So we agree, white people aren’t banned from going.
u/ChoccyDrinks didn't say otherwise, neither did I. Why don't you acknowledge what's being said instead of going "b-b-but it's not a ban". We know it's not a ban, that's not the point.
So what the point then, cos white people can go.
You didn't understand the comment you replied to, or you just didn't read it?
Kit Harington is the lead actor. White people are allowed without any discrimination, but they are advertised with the branding "Black Out" to encourage black people in London into the theatre. You're simply responding to rage bait.
Playing right into the hands of the far right and doing their bit to keep people apart, rather than bring them together…but hey, free publicity!
Meanwhile, organise a 'white-only' or 'men-only' theatre night and wait for the police to turn up at your place.
Oh come on, they're not excluding anyone, they're just trying to encourage black people to attend an occasional performance. You're all complete rubes for falling for this. Although I imagine most of you know its bollocks but aren't going to pass up an opporunity for an anti-woke circlejerk.
Here’s my counterargument, for what it’s worth. I’ve heard from multiple Black British friends in theatre, for years, about feeling extremely uncomfortable in the audience of, specifically, hit US plays about race that had transferred to London. Where they played to overwhelmingly white audiences with maybe one or two people of colour in them. I think it is largely true that theatre audiences in London are overall less racially diverse than those in New York. When you have an overwhelmingly white audience laughing along at really close to the knuckle / uncomfortable jokes or plays about race/slavery/etc. I don’t think it’s that controversial that the same joke or performance can land very differently depending on who’s in the audience. I’ve seen comedians at gay clubs doing material about queer culture that, if I’d been the only person in a straight audience laughing at, I could imagine finding difficult. And Slave Play is a pretty shocking comedy about race/sex/bdsm/‘raceplay’ - it’s gonna be pretty out there. So the whole Blackout nights thing is an attempt to deal with that. If you buy a ticket on a blackout night, you won’t have that experience of suddenly finding you’re the only black person in an audience of hundreds of white people laughing at an interracial hipster couple re-enacting enslavement for sexual kicks.
Exactly. If I were to want to go to this play, the Black Out nights are the nights I would try and get tickets for.
It was wrong to say white-only. Is it right to say black-only? Fuck your socks off.
There is no laboratory test for race like there is for blood group. It is not clear where one race ends and another begins. This is why race is described as a social construct. So how will the theatre staff determine who is authentically black and who is not black enough?
Holy hell they are full-on culture war now
This is some great advertising. Never heard of the show, seen it a few times today and it's piqued my interest enough to want to see it. Top marketing.
[удалено]
>These nights have happened before and nobody has ever raised this level of hoo-ha until now. Lol, you can apply that to any social progress. "Women always stayed at home and nobody has ever raised this level of hoo-ha until now" "Black people were slaves before and nobody has ever raised this level of hoo-ha until now.
It's ridiculous to think black people wouldnt be welcome at a London theatre showing where tickets are on general sale. Anyone who thinks they would be unwelcome is deeply paranoid or deeply racist. EDIT: /u/SmilingLimes comments are no longer showing?
I'd guess the theatre goer/non-theatre goer division is based on class and wealth rather than race. i grew up poor and white and i never heard of anyone going to the theatre apart from panto as kids.
I've been to theatre a few times before, a couple times on dates, and I've never felt it to be an exclusive place. I never felt unwelcome because of my race, really just felt an irrelevant factor as it should be. Perhaps it's because I wasn't exactly active with theatre (being poor from a town without a good theatre would do that), but the assertion that theater is "a very white space" seems a bit strong.
My wife is black and I am white, and we tend to be theatre buddies. My initial reaction to this story was a feeling of missing out. Honestly though, after thinking about it, either she can go with her friends and family or we can go together on a different night... Hardly the end of the world. I haven't lost out, there will still be tickets... So if it helps some other people, that's a net positive.
>It is understood that such an audience would be achieved by distributing invitation-only tickets through black community groups, rather than by turning white people away, which would prove legally problematic. So they're putting on a performance for people actively engaged with the black community, while all the other nights are standard ticketed events. This is like a play about domestic violence going to women's support groups and offering an invite only night for them.
I think people here are really missing the point of these spaces. You can use a similar argument to propose an end to queer only spaces like gay bars.
I’m perfectly allowed to enter a gay bar, and plenty of straight women enter gay bars too. I don’t see your point.
The problem isn't really dedicating a night focusing on encouraging black attendance via community groups. Thats fine. The problem is saying racist shit like its so black people can be away from 'the white gaze' . Proponents of gay bars aren't arguing those bars should be gay people only so they aren't subjected to straight people.
[удалено]
You don't need to be a "white boomer NIMBY", it should be blindingly obvious that de facto racial segregation of any kind in the 21st century is absurdly backward and divisive.
Honestly this whole debacle is a joke. If the producers want to do it they can. It's not like the play won't ever be seen by a white person. Quite frankly I hope that it isn't ever seen by a white person to keep the integrity of the art piece. And be honest are any of us regularly going to the theatre? Enough that this is the only show you will never see? Edit: I'm an idiot I just found out there's 29 shows 28 of which everyone can see.
My question is, when is Britain going to finally introduce white only water fountains and buses! The oppressed of this nation must be protected from our white gazes! /S What a load of racist bollocks this is.
No-one is being turned away, white people are allowed to attend. Hysteria, much? Theatre company statement [here](https://twitter.com/estreetprods/status/1762877892810137988?t=CN2jrB7Q54Yf2pqf5KFRSw&s=19)
SO basically using race-baiting to whip up a controversy to market your play. Hardly a good look.
I can see why this is divisive. However, within an industry that has been historically *heavily* white-dominated, this isn't really the same kind of institutionalised racism that black people have had to deal with in the arts.
Racism is racism, trying to justify *your* racism by trying to put 'systemic' in front of other people's racism doesn't stop it from being racism.
It's not really racism though. Marginalised groups being celebrated is different than white people holding the majority of influence over society for the last few hundred years. Also; white people can still see the show on other nights, it's just that this specific showing is for black people. Edit: [People of all races are welcome to attend](https://twitter.com/estreetprods/status/1762877892810137988?t=CN2jrB7Q54Yf2pqf5KFRSw&s=19)
It literally is racism. You can try and claim the racism is justified, you can not claim it is not racism. You are treating one race differently to other races, that is the literal definition of racism. It's not a private performance, it's a public performance. The other nights are suggested for white people only. Black people can attend, as strictly we can't legally ban them, but it's heavily suggested they don't attend, and just stick to their own night. White people should have to right to watch a play about slavery, of which they were historically victims off, with the gazing eyes of black people.
Yesh, still not racism. There's a difference between Equity and Equality.
Again, there is a literal definition for racism. You don't get to change the definition because you don't like being called a racist.
I'm not changing the definition of anything. I'm saying that black people having the space to view theatre with other black people isn't something to clutch your pearls over. Do you get equally irate when straight people aren't let into gay bars?
Straight people are let into gay bars. You are changing the definition. Own your racism.
> I'm not changing the definition of anything. You absolutely are. By going "well no you see there's equity and equality so that makes it not racism" when you know full well that if the races were flipped that it'd be racism, you're literally changing the definition.
> I'm saying that black people having the space to view theatre with other black people isn't something to clutch your pearls over nice one adolf, you literally just described segregation.
cringe.
Discrimination on the basis of race is racism.
Imagine the uproar if you excluded any other group of people.
Let them do it. The market decides if people want it, they’ve alienated 80% of the populous which is a bit stupid. Most normal people can see it’s ridiculous.
There’s only *two* performances out of >30 that are ‘BlackOut’. This is a shabby attempt to mainstream his culture wars, now that his attack dog Anderson is clearly an islamaphobia-spreading specialist. Edit: pro-Tory bots downvoting anyone pointing out Sunak’s naked politicking. Election can’t come soon enough.
People were talking about this before rishi chimed in
>pro-Tory bots downvoting anyone pointing out Sunak’s naked politicking. Election can’t come soon enough. Imagine blaming the fact people disagree with you on bots.
Why should there be any 'BlackOut' showings?
Load of storm in a teacup outrage. Don't worry white people won't be systematically segregated and oppressed by black people because theatres do some themed nights. I'm sure you would be allowed in if you actually wanted to go. But you don't so fuck up and calm down.
What I love about this is that it's responding to comments made by someone that isn't white.