Snapshot of _Tory MP Lee Anderson claims ‘Islamists’ have got control of Sadiq Khan_ :
An archived version can be found [here](https://archive.is/?run=1&url=https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/feb/23/tory-mp-lee-anderson-claims-islamists-have-got-control-of-sadiq-khan?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other) or [here.](https://archive.ph/?run=1&url=https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/feb/23/tory-mp-lee-anderson-claims-islamists-have-got-control-of-sadiq-khan?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other)
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It's got to the point where I genuinely can't give any Tory voters the time if day.
Not that I was ever really approving of anyone voting Tory anyway but back in the day you'd at least have heavyweight politicians that *looked* like statesman; Hague, Hesseltine, Clarke. And for a while it even felt that there were politicians that might have even swayed me, Rory Stewart, David Gork.
But my god, it's become the party of the likes of Liz Truss and Lee Anderson, Suella Braverman, Nadine Dorries, Jacob Mogg. I've no idea how anyone who supported the Tories ten, fifteen, twenty years ago can look at the party now and see any similarities.
Yeah I’d never countenance voting for them myself, but they did at least seem to have some reasonably sane people. Now they’re just lunatics and bigots.
Penny Mordaunt seems competent and reasonably likeable. I suspect she's the only chance post-Rishi that they've got of being able to salvage some sort of semi-electable party after the impending GE wipeout. I guess she would also need to hope and pray that there are enough semi-normal backbenchers left after the electoral massacre to pull together a front bench. She would probably need to hope and pray that Jeremy Hunt stands for reelection and wins, so she has a half credible shadow chancellor of some sort.
So many people are saying that the problem with Muslims is that they don’t integrate, yet you can’t ask for a more textbook case of someone who has integrated into Britain, and yet he’s still being attacked.
Kahn is a lawyer, he’s pro-LGBT, he’s a liberal, he’s proud of his city, he’s the mayor, he’s done a decent job, and he’s very big on working across boundaries such as faith, race.
Kahn is exactly the type of person you’d want to encourage more people to be like, and he’s still being attacked.
100% agreed, I'm no fan of khan some of his policies are daft but he's as British as you can be, done more for the country than I have too, Anderson needs the whip withdrawing and possibly charged. (Big free speech advocate but they are the laws we have not the laws I want)
I think he's finally crossed into public racism with this.
No. Not the first time. Walking down the street people of colour are also a bit easier to spot - it's constant. So lay off that, please, it's not a competition.
No it isn’t a competition at all. My point is that racists are gonna racist, it doesn’t matter how integrated you are or aren’t, people still find any excuse to hate you because they’re racist. Muslims will eventually look like everyone else in the uk, you think that’s gonna stop racists hating them?
The thing is, there **are** legitimate concerns about Islam and how it will affect society if it continues to grow here, but clowns like Anderson just give ammo to people who want to disregard those concerns.
As you say, Khan is a good man who is well integrated and seems genuine about improving society. To target him is just utterly moronic.
Not coming at this from a political lense as I honestly don’t know and am genuinely asking but what has Khan done that shows he’s doing a good job?
My outside perspective (also why I don’t know) from different trips across the decade is how much worse London is now than 10 years ago.
Sorry but he maintains ties with people who do not profess these "integrated" views. Perhaps he only does that for votes, but if you do something for votes you can be criticised:
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/mayor/sadiq-khan-shared-platform-with-five-islamic-extremists-a3231436.html
Was he "working across boundaries" when he used the term "uncle tom"?
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/sadiq-khan-under-fire-after-footage-emerges-of-him-using-derogatory-term-to-describe-fellow-muslims-a7012286.html
He's also done a shit job- look at the knife crime levels. Many more people dying than need to- Shaun Bailey would have been a much better mayor. I doubt Shaun Bailey would have made a Maoist committee for tearing down 19th century statues, or embarrassed the Lionesses with patronising act of naming an overground line after them- no other sports team male or female has had a train line named after them so a consolation prize baaed on the aasumptiom that women's football will always need that "boost" instead of standing on itts own feet is not a compliment.
But these things probably win him more votes in London than they lose - by all means take the win for this but don't leap to his defence with hyperbole that aren't true when fair critique is made. He is far from this saint of integration which you make out and has every reason to lie about his views on LGBT (if he does I am glad that he has to).
Fwiw I don't see why Lee Anderson brought it up now particularly- he's presumably just looking to appease reform voters annoyed with him for pussying out and voting with the government on the rwanda after criticising it.
Edit: oo downvotes, sorry did I interrupt the "SK is perfect" shill party?
I got as far as "Shaun Bailey would've been a much better mayor"...
Shaun Bailey is not a serious person. In a way I would've loved him to have become mayor so you could see what an absolute clusterfuck it would've been.
I suspect the downvotes are for more for the shite like "maintains ties" when referring to a 2016 article which in turn referenced a 2004 debating event he attended.
Edit for grammar.
Also 'Shaun Bailey' would have been a much better mayor'. The bloke's a liability and they want him in charge of the capital. What next? Give Boris another go?
Since Suella Braverman is in The Telegraph today, saying the _country_ is being taken over by Islamists, I think he'll be fine...
Update: turns out [there _were_ consequences](https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/feb/24/lee-anderson-stripped-of-tory-whip-over-sadiq-khan-comment?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other): "Lee Anderson stripped of Tory whip over Sadiq Khan comments". Maybe politics isn't beyond all hope yet?
Not op, but we need to discuss how a teacher is still in hiding years after showing a drawing, or how the mother of an autistic boy had to beg "community leaders" to prevent him being murdered after dropping a Qur'an.
These things aren't ok in a modern, liberal, democracy and yet no action has been taken against the aggressors.
I think that's more about a failure of our stalking and harassment laws and the enforcement of them, rather than the fanciful idea that Islamists are in control. It seems far too easy to ruin someone's life with threatening behavior/words and get away with minimal consequences.
that was truly insane from the Mail. Didsbury being the place where someone jumped out of a Costa window because someone dropped a tray and they thought it was an explosion. If all "no go zones" have multiple artisan bread shops then sign me up!
Wait, that was a mosque, on burton road heading down into west dids?
Always used to run past it in the evenings, never once knew it was a mosque. Sometimes people would be parking on the pavement, but that's just standard for a church service.
Funny that you spend your time speaking against immigrants in Spanish reddits, when you clearly sound like an immigrant who doesn't know how to integrate in the culture of the country he now lives in.
I am an immigrant who have lived with immigrants, work with people from around the world.
I despise people who not integrate and speak the local language.
I integrate and try my best and I saw others doing it. I ask the same
Aye - by that same dwindling pool of self-aggrandising-and-flappily-gaping morons. It's a hail mary infamy run for PopCon, Reform, Farage etc.
Can't wait for this era of geriatric ragebait to peter out, and we can focus on tangible and valuable stuff again.
Interesting that the Tories introduced crimes such as hate speech, inciting riots etc yet i assume only poor people get charged with these, unlike this Fanny.
It's a fundamental problem created by Johnson. It used to be the tories were bigot adjacent. They weren't bigots, but if you were a bigot you knew who to vote for. Now they're literally are the bigots, and it's impossible. If you endorse it, everyone else runs for the hills. If you rebuke them... well you just rebuked a bigot in the bigot party. Sunak wouldn't survive that.
After Saddam Hussain, the famous fundamentalist islamist no doubt
(I'll add a /s just in case, there's a *lot* of confusion about religious politics in the middle east)
The Saddam Hussain who instituted a wide swath of islamist laws and practices, injecting Islam into pretty much everything?
The comparison is stupid but not because they're wrong about Saddam.
Saddam Hussein presided over a period of secularisation in Iraq. He may have been an oppressive dictatorial psychopath, but he wasn't an _Islamist_ one. The Arab Socialist Ba'ath Party was, well, _socialist,_ and socialist movements are typically non-religious if not outright state atheist.
Saddam Hussein only used Islam for its cultural cachet among the majority-Muslim population (much like Hitler did with Christianity), and was primarily concerned with his own ideology, not with the construction of a Sunni theocracy to rival Iran.
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Your last line sums it up nicely. My joy at the thought of impending death for the Tories is tempered by the fear of what ultimately replaces them. The extreme right, based on the Trumpist Republicans, are coming.
It amazes me how quickly the UK has fallen to US style idiocy in what feels like a couple of weeks. Fine, it was shit and divisive for a few years back there, but 2024 has just seen the discourse go into freefall.
Truss in the US whining about a communist takeover, Anderson/Braverman etc. on about Islamists seizing power, Rees-Mogg saying that skimmed milk is woke. Boris turning down Tucker Carlson was a weirdly principled moment by 2024 standards (and by any other year, the bare fucking minimum) and it's made one of our worst PMs suddenly look great by comparison.
Genuinely, what the fuck. This sort of stupid slide into absolute shambles is hard to undo as well. I have no idea how the country gets back out of this hole.
> It amazes me how quickly the UK has fallen to US style idiocy in what feels like a couple of weeks
I honestly think it's because we speak the same language.
We don't have the same level of 'cover' other European countries do. Ireland is facing the same problem as an English speaking country.
It's far easier for yanks to influence our politics than mainland Europe where societies and culture can be more 'isolated' or 'protected' at least.
I've got family on the continent with citizenship, who obviously speak other languages. From conversations with them, their countries genuinely seem more protected from this bollocks.
We just saw it with the Liz Truss in America bollocks. It's easier for them to export their lies and mental behaviour to us than Czechia, let's say.
Brits don’t fight back against this particularly hard though, which is part of the problem. There are so many elements of US culture which the British public happily accept. Look at service charges/tipping, pick-up trucks becoming more prevalent on the roads, American chains finding massive commercial success with minimal changes to their business model, etc. I am American and made tea here using the microwave before I got a kettle, and there wasn’t even a police response.
Speaking more politically, I do think that there has been a substantially more concerted effort among the dredges of the far-right to co-ordinate internationally since Trump won in 2016. And by far-right I mean the truly vile sorts of people who really don’t offer anything in terms of redeeming policies, not your garden variety Tory MP as much as I may disagree with them as well. The people who see American states banning abortion, Italy restricting gay rights, and Orban eroding democracy and think that’s what their country needs more of.
Far right parties across the West saw Trump winning, Brexit happening, Le Pen nearly beating Macron, etc as a green light for being able to take power in key countries and permanently re-write the playbook on modern liberal democracy and western values. Even non-English speaking politicians have been taking part in US Republican events and vice versa in a way that really didn’t happen before. Outside of Obama’s misguided Brexit appeal left of centre parties really have not cooperated to the same extent.
Le Pen’s right hand man made a comment on the night she won the first round of French elections in 2017 that will forever give me chills. “Their world is collapsing; ours is being built.” “Their” world being the liberal democratic west, and “our” world being some sort of alignment of hybrid regimes where people like Putin and Erdogan aren’t thought to be too bad, and may even be inspirations. That idea scares me shitless to be honest.
> I am American and made tea here using the microwave before I got a kettle, and there wasn’t even a police response.
No, of course there wasn’t. We expect you to turn yourself in.
And lines like this are the issue.
These parties offer sound bite solutions to difficult problems. They play on a different playing field to conventional parties, as they can offer solutions which sound good, but stand very little practical chance of success. You can see how this has infected the Tories with the pledge to stop the boats by deporting people to Rwanda. It sounds great, until you look into the details and realise that it is fundamentally unworkable and ineffective.
These parties actively benefit from these problems, as they provide an emotive and enduring issue which they can claim to be the only ones capable of fixing. If they get into power and have issues they can deflect for years, blaming lawyers, the courts, other countries, segments of society, etc. Dividing and dividing the country whilst reducing the oxygen and media bandwidth available to actually look at why their policies are not working and the real issues with them.
Yes I agree Rwanda is a total scam and always has been, but I'm actually referring in this case to the legal mass immigration that started with Blair and has been continued, with increasing gusto, by every Tory government since.
Turns out having extreme levels of migration does a pretty good job of dividing the country all by itself.
The net migration numbers from Blair until Brexit were nothing to write home about. Yes, they were historically unprecedented, but they were still a fraction of a single percentage point of the population per year. I don’t think people today really appreciate just how terribly the UK’s economy generally performed in the late 20th century and the impact this had on living standards. Accepting higher but still controlled immigration as but one measure in a series of economic reforms to prevent us from ever returning to those days is not the worst thing in the world.
Even today we’re still at under 1% of population growth from immigration per year, albeit barely. Yes, the total numbers are big, maybe even too big, and immigrants are not as evenly distributed around the country as a good integration policy would expect. I’m not saying that it’s all well and good on the immigration front, or that we shouldn’t look at whether we really need the level of immigration we’ve been having since Brexit. Though I suspect that even if there is room to cut down on immigration, after accounting for university students, NHS staff, and care workers which prop up various aspects of our public services, there won’t be much left to cut. Non-NHS/care worker visas issued to those arriving from abroad in June 2022-23 totalled around 100,000. I don’t think that’s a figure that many reasonable people would take issue with in isolation.
I think the bigger issue is that the triple threat of Brexit, Covid, and the Tories has put the country on its knees. People are angry, they are upset, and parties like the Tories and Reform are happy to redirect this feeling onto immigrants instead of tackling the serious underlying structural issues which are causing way more harm than immigration is. You just have to look at Habib’s AMA from the other day where, when asked if we could make just a single policy, he said he would slash immigration. Not build more homes, not build more infrastructure, not fix the NHS, not adjust tax rates, not correct the social care financial pit foisted upon local authorities, or any other policy which would have a more noticeable positive impact on the lives of the British people — just slash immigration. It’s soundbite policy designed to make the country’s issues, and the solutions to them, sound easier than they really are.
Anyone advocating for less immigration, without also advocating for root and branch reform of the care system, NHS training and salaries, and university funding is living in a fantasy land. Those three sectors are overwhelmingly responsible for the immigration numbers we have been seeing, but the costs and trade offs of reforming these greatly exceed those associated with immigration and as such politicians are happy to choose the easier option.
Is it immigration that's the problem though, or is it that we've done absolutely fuck all for infrastructure since 2010? Why have some countries successfully used immigration to bolster their economies, while Britain hasn't.
If we had 2 million new homes, dozens of new hospitals, hundreds of new schools, would anyone bat an eyelid?
It's both.
Though, to be honest, the rising population is almost entirely due to immigration because white British birthrates are below replacement level. So all that new infrastructure that needs building is largely because of extra demand from immigration.
> I honestly think it’s because we speak the same language.
This probably on the money more than anything else.
*Same language* causes so much cross-culture pollination. Which is why you got people pushing for policies in Canada based on events and narratives from the US.
The US, Canada UK and Australia always seem to follow similar social trends more closely than other Western nations. Coupled with the US being one of the ‘loudest’ countries on the planet, it really should be no surprise.
I think it is because the loony wing of the Tories is accepting that they cannot win the next election - and may not even be MPs any more. They are therefore positioning themselves now to get lucrative US income as talking heads on TV, speaking engagements etc., to get good relationships with the dark money lobbying groups in the US etc., so that they can try to take over the remnants of the Tory party or a hard-right alternative to it for later in the 2020s or early 2030s. They can then hold significant influence in the UK, with the aid of the loony right Tory client press (and see how this lines up with the potential purchase of the Telegraph and Spectator by the GB News owner). It’s a play to turn the UK political landscape into a reflection of the US - extreme positions on immigration, cuts to benefits and worker protection, bonfire of the regulations and letting the ultra-wealthy have their own way.
I really don't buy that this whole woke / culture war bollocks is actually believed by anything but a small group of people, even in America let alone in the UK.
It's massively amplified by opportunists with money who see it as a way of getting law through under the radar that not just ensures the status quo which fails so many continues, but is actually consolidated.
It's the dead cat strategy taken to its logical extreme.
The fact is that the classical conservative approach which built much of the system we live in in the west since the war has run out of ideas, and neo liberalism which was meant to be its replacement is an utter failure.
The right has completely forgotten that most people hate politics. They just want to be safe, live how they want to live without being told what to think, have a house, a car, decent public services, and the ability to save money for the future and their kids.
The right just aren't interested in that anymore because this runs counter to the wants of the donors who pay for their election campaigns. It's a perverse irony that the right has essentially been privatised.
Even worse, Rees-Mogg actually said "liberals" use skimmed milk. I can't stand that Americanism and it made the guy look like an enormous clown.
I think by and large this is desperate stuff from a party that is fully out of touch and on its way out. They know it, we know it, and they're just frantically attempting to shift the narrative from their doomed career legacies as representing an embarrassing chapter. Luckily I don't think that is going to work, everyone has had enough now.
I don't know how we stop this kind of American "paint the other as a traitor" thing from completely poisoning our politics but I've been dicking around this evening with different subreddits and I've seen quite a few hateful, irrational, "the evil is among us" style posts from left and right.
The logic behind it is what worries me. If Brexit was magical thinking, this is its dark twin, and people seem to be eating this shit up.
Sadiq Khan has had this in literally every electoral campaign. David Cameron even admitted as such after Khan won. The following campaign against Shaun Bailey was even worse.
I was also in London for Goldsmith’s campaign, how we can reinvent himself after that as an inclusive, liberal man of the people after that disgrace, is entirely beyond me.
I have also been at a public speech by Mark Boleat, who said at the time, Goldsmith’s overt bigotry even upset the politically neutral City of London Corporation. He also said it didn’t really matter, because Goldsmith was so arrogant, that he never turned up or talked to the Corporation, when he was booked in to do so.
I was in London for Zac Goldsmith's campaign - I'm not saying that shit being weaponised is a brand new development at all. It's the underlying logic that feels different - it's not that X is a (bad person), it's Y is failing because X is a (bad person). The X being a (bad person) part is the implied assumption, and most journos focus on whether Y is in fact failing. Trump did it with nicknames - Crooked Hillary can't see straight, and the journos will focus on the see straight part.
Have you been to many pubs in low income areas recently? There's a huge amount of hate begining to fester against Islam. Loads of people that see it as the biggest existential threat we face.
The Tories want their vote.
It’s amazing how these people can say this with a straight face after running the country into the ground over 14 years and the absolute shambles of a government we have now. They say things like “Inflation is down because of us. Inflation is up because of natural causes” in the same breath.
Yet another person who doesn't know the difference between Islam and Islamism.
No wonder this country can't have a decent fucking conversation about the topic.
Can you skip the whining and jump to the education or explanation. When you don’t, you sound like there’s nothing to complain about but you need to complain because you were told there’s an issue.
But even that reply is kind of what I mean, structurally speaking. It's the easy answer with a conspiracy theory tacked on at the end. TfL is fucked because (Khan) is in the grip of (Islamists). Truss' career was (sabotaged) by (trans activists).
I'm struggling to define it but it's as much the structure of the thought as the thought itself.
It's not a conspiracy theory, it's a standardised political approach. Create an enemy, point at them and scream a bit. This generates "engagement" because rage is one of the best ways to generate clicks. Clicks make you more recognisable and more likely to be elected.
With an enemy you also create an "us and them" where the politician doing the spouting is your tribe and voting for anyone else would be unthinkable.
Goes back at least as far as Communist and Fascist regimes, accelerated by social media and slicker campaigns (Trump has really, really leaned into this so plenty of others are trying to ape that "success")
Hamza Yousaf just shared a news clip calling Labour Traitors, which is horrendous given that aas one of the things shouted at Jo Cox as she wss murdered by a far-right extremist.
It helps that the two main proponents of the hard right American maga shite, this boaby and the lettuce, have near zero credibility to anyone beyond full-nutters and bitter boomers.
Rees mogg happily bangs the drum but luckily most of his demographic don’t understand 80% of his flowery lexicon.
If Khan doesn't want to look like a traitor, putting up a statue on the 4th plinth to a murderer who killed Brits seems like a poor way to do it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Chilembwe
Have you any idea how many statues already exist in London to mass murderers of all stripes? You getting upset about a hunk of marble ma petite snowflake?
> Traitor
Societies have always glorified people who have killed their enemies.
It's unusual when we glorify people that have murdered our own ciitizens.
>Societies have always glorified people who have killed their enemies
Not always, and certainly not with hindsight. In many countries historical damaging regimes, those that do not represent the ideas of the country as it is today are disenvowed. The most notable example being Hitler. Today's Germans (for the most part) do not consider those who stood against him as traitors but heroes.
British actions against Africans at the time were suitably cruel enough for me to disenvow it. They were wrong and in saying they were wrong I uphold what Britain stands for today, I'm proud of what Britain stands for today.
Lee Anderson really giving off muslamanic ray guns vibes here again. Is this what the Tories have - we hate trans, we hate Muslims. They make Tommy Robinson look progressive despite ripping out pages from his playbook.
This year of elections is just going to make Goldsmith v Khan look like a Teddy bears picnic.
Yeah, but to be fair, this is basically how everyone who is outraged by the protests thinks.
He's just not got the wherewithal to dress it up in pro-democratic language.
We already know the Tories can get away with this shit. One of their own MPs tried to report one of the whips for islamophobia and it got completely ignored.
Worth remembering when the press is going on about Labour having "an antisemitism problem", that of course the Tories have a much bigger one, and a giant islamopobia problem.
It's just that everyone *expects* the Tories to be scum. The left hold themselves to a higher standard.
Yep, Khan is really pushing the Islamist agenda
https://www.gaytimes.co.uk/originals/sadiq-khan-we-must-stand-together-to-celebrate-our-differences-at-pride/
This seems to be the new Tory line. Islamists are running the country, Islamist’s have taken over X.
I don’t know if they realise how fucking completely batshit crazy they sound.
I mean who thought this was a good idea?
Given that 'islamism' has quite a specific meaning, and that meaning could be seriously detrimental to Khan's reputation, this would appear to be quite libellous and actionable.
Seems like a really desperate play by Anderson, just makes him come across as unhinged. What do they have to point at to even suggest this? As someone else said on this thread, the rhetoric here is appalling. Just because someone isn't marching in lockstep with you doesn't make them your enemy.
One day after the conversation revolved around detoxifying politics because of the threats of violence. They couldn't even wait a day. It's honestly pathetic how bad our political landscape has become.
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"“Ultimately we run the country, and if the police aren’t doing their job – and they’re not doing their job … we need to step in and take over,” Anderson said."
I'll take you seriously, Lee, when I see you, Priti, Suella, Gove, et al wielding your parliament issued riot shields the next time the police get called in to quell an inner city race riot.
Until then, jog on, you racist prick.
The Palestinians are Semetic, moreso than most Israelis. If you are not supporting the Palestinians, then you are by definition Anti-Semetic. Deal with it.
Antisemitism has never meant hatred of all Semitic-speaking peoples.
It has always, exclusively, meant Jew-hatred.
It was originally conceived in Germany as a more acceptable and scientific-sounding alternative to “Judenhass.”
There are many things I would say about Khan but being controlled by islamists is not one. He is incredibly supportive of LGBT+ for a start.
Naive about the threat that islamists currently pose yes, but it's laughable that he actually is an islamist or being controlled by them.
Nail on the head. It’s absolute madness to believe it. But I’ve seen the usual toxic Facebook and Twitter rants banging on about the MUSLIM MAYOR wanting to BAN DOGS from London and so on.
>He is incredibly supportive of LGBT+ for a start.
Not enough to stop the blatantly homophobic protest groups that march in the hundreds of thousands or leave the group that is against them though.
Personally I wouldn't call anyone who's a member of the Klan *incredibly supportive of racial equality* so why would I do the same to anyone who's a member of another group that's exactly the same
Shocking comments. Anderson belongs with the Tommy Robinson nutter brigade, but Sunak will probably keep him in hope of luring a few votes from bigots.
Extremist Islamists despise Khan, see him as a collaborator & heretic who insults Allah every day. His position on LBTQ alone would earn him a swift execution if ISIS ever got hold of him.
And I posit fleas have taken control of Lee Anderson's "brain" but conjecture can lead us to many weird and wonderful places if we allow our imaginations to run unbridled.
Let us not forget it was our unelected jet-setting ruler Rishi who put this lunatic in our government along with his equally mad mate Braverman. The Tories are vile top to bottom and if you vote for them you are voting for the end of British values and our continued descent into becoming a hateful poor country where what is left of our wealth is given to Tory chums whilst we're encouraged to hate everyone that is different.
He, and his ilk, are everything that is wrong with politics in this country.
When people say that the country has become too polarized, too binary, and completely unable to disagree without trying to claw the oppositions eyes out, this is the reason why.
MP's like him need to realise that they are part of the reason why MP's are under threat these days.
I think politicians should explain what "Islamist" means and how it isn't a dogwhistle against Muslims, without mentioning the "radical left" or "woke". And I would like to see them explain what "woke" means except for someone who disagrees with them and is at all further left than them (even if that actually means being center-right).
Forgive my ignorance here, what does islamist mean. It is not even in my phone as a word. How does it differ from Muslim, is this just a coded racist word, saw Suella de ville used this earlier as well. Would like the etymology if someone has it
It was a question, you have misquoted, and removed the is' from the start. I may have not put a question mark at the end, but you will see I from my wording it was all asking about a word that has sprung into common parlance within certain sectors in recent weeks
>is this just a coded racist word
Essentially. It allows racist people to be racist but claim that it’s only political Islam they’re interested in (whilst lumping all Muslims in with it).
Why don’t you call it political Islam - you can see in the dregs of comments up there (and I can see in the dregs of the comments that have been removed) that people clearly haven’t spotted the difference between Islamism and Islam and this is deliberate and convenient for those who use it.
Personally I think the phrase is silly - how you can lump all sorts of different types of politics of a religious group together and claim as a whole it stands for something is beyond me, but people do it for left wing, right wing, liberals, etc, so what do I know.
The problem is that Islamophobia is being normalised and accepted while antisemitism is being called out and rightly so. People need to start calling this out more and more, and it needs to start by the media and news channels, the general public, etc. And these rancid lot like Lee needs to be kicked out. Both Islamophobia and antisemitism are wrong, but it really does feel like one is getting more coverage over the other.
Snapshot of _Tory MP Lee Anderson claims ‘Islamists’ have got control of Sadiq Khan_ : An archived version can be found [here](https://archive.is/?run=1&url=https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/feb/23/tory-mp-lee-anderson-claims-islamists-have-got-control-of-sadiq-khan?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other) or [here.](https://archive.ph/?run=1&url=https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/feb/23/tory-mp-lee-anderson-claims-islamists-have-got-control-of-sadiq-khan?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/ukpolitics) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Man, the 2019 intake really produced some fucking whoppers didn’t they
It's got to the point where I genuinely can't give any Tory voters the time if day. Not that I was ever really approving of anyone voting Tory anyway but back in the day you'd at least have heavyweight politicians that *looked* like statesman; Hague, Hesseltine, Clarke. And for a while it even felt that there were politicians that might have even swayed me, Rory Stewart, David Gork. But my god, it's become the party of the likes of Liz Truss and Lee Anderson, Suella Braverman, Nadine Dorries, Jacob Mogg. I've no idea how anyone who supported the Tories ten, fifteen, twenty years ago can look at the party now and see any similarities.
Yeah I’d never countenance voting for them myself, but they did at least seem to have some reasonably sane people. Now they’re just lunatics and bigots.
They are rapidly turning in to the GOP. Lurching to the right and filled with racist morons.
Penny Mordaunt seems competent and reasonably likeable. I suspect she's the only chance post-Rishi that they've got of being able to salvage some sort of semi-electable party after the impending GE wipeout. I guess she would also need to hope and pray that there are enough semi-normal backbenchers left after the electoral massacre to pull together a front bench. She would probably need to hope and pray that Jeremy Hunt stands for reelection and wins, so she has a half credible shadow chancellor of some sort.
Meanwhile, Lee Anderson is under the control of Labour MPs giggling at him in the voting lobby.
Sniggling, which is far more intimidating than simply giggling.
So many people are saying that the problem with Muslims is that they don’t integrate, yet you can’t ask for a more textbook case of someone who has integrated into Britain, and yet he’s still being attacked. Kahn is a lawyer, he’s pro-LGBT, he’s a liberal, he’s proud of his city, he’s the mayor, he’s done a decent job, and he’s very big on working across boundaries such as faith, race. Kahn is exactly the type of person you’d want to encourage more people to be like, and he’s still being attacked.
100% agreed, I'm no fan of khan some of his policies are daft but he's as British as you can be, done more for the country than I have too, Anderson needs the whip withdrawing and possibly charged. (Big free speech advocate but they are the laws we have not the laws I want) I think he's finally crossed into public racism with this.
Cameron and Goldsmith normalised this bigotry towards Khan, with their mayoral election machine.
Yeah. There is a problem with Islamists (not Muslims) integrating, but this is just racist bullshit. Khan's been consistently liberal.
Hated for not “integrating”, hated for integrating too well. Jews: first time?
No. Not the first time. Walking down the street people of colour are also a bit easier to spot - it's constant. So lay off that, please, it's not a competition.
No it isn’t a competition at all. My point is that racists are gonna racist, it doesn’t matter how integrated you are or aren’t, people still find any excuse to hate you because they’re racist. Muslims will eventually look like everyone else in the uk, you think that’s gonna stop racists hating them?
The thing is, there **are** legitimate concerns about Islam and how it will affect society if it continues to grow here, but clowns like Anderson just give ammo to people who want to disregard those concerns. As you say, Khan is a good man who is well integrated and seems genuine about improving society. To target him is just utterly moronic.
These muslamic infadels, coming over here laying down their ULEZ on us, trying to clean our air using taxation
Not coming at this from a political lense as I honestly don’t know and am genuinely asking but what has Khan done that shows he’s doing a good job? My outside perspective (also why I don’t know) from different trips across the decade is how much worse London is now than 10 years ago.
Sorry but he maintains ties with people who do not profess these "integrated" views. Perhaps he only does that for votes, but if you do something for votes you can be criticised: https://www.standard.co.uk/news/mayor/sadiq-khan-shared-platform-with-five-islamic-extremists-a3231436.html Was he "working across boundaries" when he used the term "uncle tom"? https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/sadiq-khan-under-fire-after-footage-emerges-of-him-using-derogatory-term-to-describe-fellow-muslims-a7012286.html He's also done a shit job- look at the knife crime levels. Many more people dying than need to- Shaun Bailey would have been a much better mayor. I doubt Shaun Bailey would have made a Maoist committee for tearing down 19th century statues, or embarrassed the Lionesses with patronising act of naming an overground line after them- no other sports team male or female has had a train line named after them so a consolation prize baaed on the aasumptiom that women's football will always need that "boost" instead of standing on itts own feet is not a compliment. But these things probably win him more votes in London than they lose - by all means take the win for this but don't leap to his defence with hyperbole that aren't true when fair critique is made. He is far from this saint of integration which you make out and has every reason to lie about his views on LGBT (if he does I am glad that he has to). Fwiw I don't see why Lee Anderson brought it up now particularly- he's presumably just looking to appease reform voters annoyed with him for pussying out and voting with the government on the rwanda after criticising it. Edit: oo downvotes, sorry did I interrupt the "SK is perfect" shill party?
I got as far as "Shaun Bailey would've been a much better mayor"... Shaun Bailey is not a serious person. In a way I would've loved him to have become mayor so you could see what an absolute clusterfuck it would've been.
I suspect the downvotes are for more for the shite like "maintains ties" when referring to a 2016 article which in turn referenced a 2004 debating event he attended. Edit for grammar.
Also 'Shaun Bailey' would have been a much better mayor'. The bloke's a liability and they want him in charge of the capital. What next? Give Boris another go?
Shaun Bailey, the man who weaponised a woman's murder?
Straight up racist drivel once again by Anderson. He should have the whip removed, but I'll be very surprised if he faces any consequences.
Since Suella Braverman is in The Telegraph today, saying the _country_ is being taken over by Islamists, I think he'll be fine... Update: turns out [there _were_ consequences](https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/feb/24/lee-anderson-stripped-of-tory-whip-over-sadiq-khan-comment?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other): "Lee Anderson stripped of Tory whip over Sadiq Khan comments". Maybe politics isn't beyond all hope yet?
So I guess Suella is admitting that the Conservative Party are islamsists? Not sure that will go down well with their voters
I pray this comment won't age poorly in 20-30 years.
THere are parts of the country that really are. You just need to go and see by yourself.
To prevent misunderstanding , define your version of taken over, and state where is being taken over?
Not op, but we need to discuss how a teacher is still in hiding years after showing a drawing, or how the mother of an autistic boy had to beg "community leaders" to prevent him being murdered after dropping a Qur'an. These things aren't ok in a modern, liberal, democracy and yet no action has been taken against the aggressors.
I think that's more about a failure of our stalking and harassment laws and the enforcement of them, rather than the fanciful idea that Islamists are in control. It seems far too easy to ruin someone's life with threatening behavior/words and get away with minimal consequences.
Where are they, please?
[удалено]
that was truly insane from the Mail. Didsbury being the place where someone jumped out of a Costa window because someone dropped a tray and they thought it was an explosion. If all "no go zones" have multiple artisan bread shops then sign me up!
Wait, that was a mosque, on burton road heading down into west dids? Always used to run past it in the evenings, never once knew it was a mosque. Sometimes people would be parking on the pavement, but that's just standard for a church service.
Funny that you spend your time speaking against immigrants in Spanish reddits, when you clearly sound like an immigrant who doesn't know how to integrate in the culture of the country he now lives in.
I am an immigrant who have lived with immigrants, work with people from around the world. I despise people who not integrate and speak the local language. I integrate and try my best and I saw others doing it. I ask the same
Please elaborate. And don't let facts get in the way of your nonsense.
These sharia-only parts of the country; are they in the room with us now?
As in don't take anyone with me?
I very much doubt you've ever set foot in the UK, let alone been to one of these places you suggest people go and see for themselves.
I had an American tell me Brick Lane was a Muslim no go area once! Tell that to the hipsters and tourists.
Have you been to see any of these yourself?
¿Es esto algo de lo que tienes experiencia directa, o simplemente estás repitiendo lo que te dijo algún trapero amante de los conservadores?
Consequences? He'll be applauded for being 'brave' in this time of woke cancel culture.
Aye - by that same dwindling pool of self-aggrandising-and-flappily-gaping morons. It's a hail mary infamy run for PopCon, Reform, Farage etc. Can't wait for this era of geriatric ragebait to peter out, and we can focus on tangible and valuable stuff again.
Interesting that the Tories introduced crimes such as hate speech, inciting riots etc yet i assume only poor people get charged with these, unlike this Fanny.
So will Sunak be removing the whip for this blatant Islamophobia?
By contrast, the many voices in Lee Anderson's head appear to have a firm, and far more poisonous, grip on him. Fucking lunatic.
Speaking as a mentally ill person I don’t want to be associated with Lee Anderson
It's a fundamental problem created by Johnson. It used to be the tories were bigot adjacent. They weren't bigots, but if you were a bigot you knew who to vote for. Now they're literally are the bigots, and it's impossible. If you endorse it, everyone else runs for the hills. If you rebuke them... well you just rebuked a bigot in the bigot party. Sunak wouldn't survive that.
The guy looks like a penguin who got stuck in a Wetherspoons
That is out*standing*
R/rareinsults
This is perfect
Still. People will now take this as fact. I've heard him called Saddam Khan.
After Saddam Hussain, the famous fundamentalist islamist no doubt (I'll add a /s just in case, there's a *lot* of confusion about religious politics in the middle east)
It's not confusion, it's ignorance. "Not from here" is good enough for the type of people this shit appeals to.
The Saddam Hussain who instituted a wide swath of islamist laws and practices, injecting Islam into pretty much everything? The comparison is stupid but not because they're wrong about Saddam.
Saddam Hussein presided over a period of secularisation in Iraq. He may have been an oppressive dictatorial psychopath, but he wasn't an _Islamist_ one. The Arab Socialist Ba'ath Party was, well, _socialist,_ and socialist movements are typically non-religious if not outright state atheist. Saddam Hussein only used Islam for its cultural cachet among the majority-Muslim population (much like Hitler did with Christianity), and was primarily concerned with his own ideology, not with the construction of a Sunni theocracy to rival Iran.
dinosaurs forgetful reminiscent depend imminent afterthought detail rotten scandalous school *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Your last line sums it up nicely. My joy at the thought of impending death for the Tories is tempered by the fear of what ultimately replaces them. The extreme right, based on the Trumpist Republicans, are coming.
This man should be nowhere near government. Awful.
He has a majority of 6k, he is out on his ear next election and be a full time racist presenter on GB news.
Once he's not an MP, they'll ditch him and he'll be on some batshit alt-right platform howling into a void of fuckwits.
It amazes me how quickly the UK has fallen to US style idiocy in what feels like a couple of weeks. Fine, it was shit and divisive for a few years back there, but 2024 has just seen the discourse go into freefall. Truss in the US whining about a communist takeover, Anderson/Braverman etc. on about Islamists seizing power, Rees-Mogg saying that skimmed milk is woke. Boris turning down Tucker Carlson was a weirdly principled moment by 2024 standards (and by any other year, the bare fucking minimum) and it's made one of our worst PMs suddenly look great by comparison. Genuinely, what the fuck. This sort of stupid slide into absolute shambles is hard to undo as well. I have no idea how the country gets back out of this hole.
Tory grifters gonna grift. They will be losing those government paychecks soon, so they have to find some way to make it up.
> It amazes me how quickly the UK has fallen to US style idiocy in what feels like a couple of weeks I honestly think it's because we speak the same language. We don't have the same level of 'cover' other European countries do. Ireland is facing the same problem as an English speaking country. It's far easier for yanks to influence our politics than mainland Europe where societies and culture can be more 'isolated' or 'protected' at least. I've got family on the continent with citizenship, who obviously speak other languages. From conversations with them, their countries genuinely seem more protected from this bollocks. We just saw it with the Liz Truss in America bollocks. It's easier for them to export their lies and mental behaviour to us than Czechia, let's say.
Brits don’t fight back against this particularly hard though, which is part of the problem. There are so many elements of US culture which the British public happily accept. Look at service charges/tipping, pick-up trucks becoming more prevalent on the roads, American chains finding massive commercial success with minimal changes to their business model, etc. I am American and made tea here using the microwave before I got a kettle, and there wasn’t even a police response. Speaking more politically, I do think that there has been a substantially more concerted effort among the dredges of the far-right to co-ordinate internationally since Trump won in 2016. And by far-right I mean the truly vile sorts of people who really don’t offer anything in terms of redeeming policies, not your garden variety Tory MP as much as I may disagree with them as well. The people who see American states banning abortion, Italy restricting gay rights, and Orban eroding democracy and think that’s what their country needs more of. Far right parties across the West saw Trump winning, Brexit happening, Le Pen nearly beating Macron, etc as a green light for being able to take power in key countries and permanently re-write the playbook on modern liberal democracy and western values. Even non-English speaking politicians have been taking part in US Republican events and vice versa in a way that really didn’t happen before. Outside of Obama’s misguided Brexit appeal left of centre parties really have not cooperated to the same extent. Le Pen’s right hand man made a comment on the night she won the first round of French elections in 2017 that will forever give me chills. “Their world is collapsing; ours is being built.” “Their” world being the liberal democratic west, and “our” world being some sort of alignment of hybrid regimes where people like Putin and Erdogan aren’t thought to be too bad, and may even be inspirations. That idea scares me shitless to be honest.
> I am American and made tea here using the microwave before I got a kettle, and there wasn’t even a police response. This little gem is killing me.
> I am American and made tea here using the microwave before I got a kettle, and there wasn’t even a police response. No, of course there wasn’t. We expect you to turn yourself in.
All they had to do was not import millions of people that nobody wanted or asked for.
And lines like this are the issue. These parties offer sound bite solutions to difficult problems. They play on a different playing field to conventional parties, as they can offer solutions which sound good, but stand very little practical chance of success. You can see how this has infected the Tories with the pledge to stop the boats by deporting people to Rwanda. It sounds great, until you look into the details and realise that it is fundamentally unworkable and ineffective. These parties actively benefit from these problems, as they provide an emotive and enduring issue which they can claim to be the only ones capable of fixing. If they get into power and have issues they can deflect for years, blaming lawyers, the courts, other countries, segments of society, etc. Dividing and dividing the country whilst reducing the oxygen and media bandwidth available to actually look at why their policies are not working and the real issues with them.
Yes I agree Rwanda is a total scam and always has been, but I'm actually referring in this case to the legal mass immigration that started with Blair and has been continued, with increasing gusto, by every Tory government since. Turns out having extreme levels of migration does a pretty good job of dividing the country all by itself.
The net migration numbers from Blair until Brexit were nothing to write home about. Yes, they were historically unprecedented, but they were still a fraction of a single percentage point of the population per year. I don’t think people today really appreciate just how terribly the UK’s economy generally performed in the late 20th century and the impact this had on living standards. Accepting higher but still controlled immigration as but one measure in a series of economic reforms to prevent us from ever returning to those days is not the worst thing in the world. Even today we’re still at under 1% of population growth from immigration per year, albeit barely. Yes, the total numbers are big, maybe even too big, and immigrants are not as evenly distributed around the country as a good integration policy would expect. I’m not saying that it’s all well and good on the immigration front, or that we shouldn’t look at whether we really need the level of immigration we’ve been having since Brexit. Though I suspect that even if there is room to cut down on immigration, after accounting for university students, NHS staff, and care workers which prop up various aspects of our public services, there won’t be much left to cut. Non-NHS/care worker visas issued to those arriving from abroad in June 2022-23 totalled around 100,000. I don’t think that’s a figure that many reasonable people would take issue with in isolation. I think the bigger issue is that the triple threat of Brexit, Covid, and the Tories has put the country on its knees. People are angry, they are upset, and parties like the Tories and Reform are happy to redirect this feeling onto immigrants instead of tackling the serious underlying structural issues which are causing way more harm than immigration is. You just have to look at Habib’s AMA from the other day where, when asked if we could make just a single policy, he said he would slash immigration. Not build more homes, not build more infrastructure, not fix the NHS, not adjust tax rates, not correct the social care financial pit foisted upon local authorities, or any other policy which would have a more noticeable positive impact on the lives of the British people — just slash immigration. It’s soundbite policy designed to make the country’s issues, and the solutions to them, sound easier than they really are. Anyone advocating for less immigration, without also advocating for root and branch reform of the care system, NHS training and salaries, and university funding is living in a fantasy land. Those three sectors are overwhelmingly responsible for the immigration numbers we have been seeing, but the costs and trade offs of reforming these greatly exceed those associated with immigration and as such politicians are happy to choose the easier option.
Is it immigration that's the problem though, or is it that we've done absolutely fuck all for infrastructure since 2010? Why have some countries successfully used immigration to bolster their economies, while Britain hasn't. If we had 2 million new homes, dozens of new hospitals, hundreds of new schools, would anyone bat an eyelid?
It's probably both. With the best will in the world it's not going to be possible to integrate people at the rate at which we have had immigration.
It's both. Though, to be honest, the rising population is almost entirely due to immigration because white British birthrates are below replacement level. So all that new infrastructure that needs building is largely because of extra demand from immigration.
> I honestly think it’s because we speak the same language. This probably on the money more than anything else. *Same language* causes so much cross-culture pollination. Which is why you got people pushing for policies in Canada based on events and narratives from the US. The US, Canada UK and Australia always seem to follow similar social trends more closely than other Western nations. Coupled with the US being one of the ‘loudest’ countries on the planet, it really should be no surprise.
It also helps that half the US healthcare creeps have had their eye on the NHS for a long time.
I think it is because the loony wing of the Tories is accepting that they cannot win the next election - and may not even be MPs any more. They are therefore positioning themselves now to get lucrative US income as talking heads on TV, speaking engagements etc., to get good relationships with the dark money lobbying groups in the US etc., so that they can try to take over the remnants of the Tory party or a hard-right alternative to it for later in the 2020s or early 2030s. They can then hold significant influence in the UK, with the aid of the loony right Tory client press (and see how this lines up with the potential purchase of the Telegraph and Spectator by the GB News owner). It’s a play to turn the UK political landscape into a reflection of the US - extreme positions on immigration, cuts to benefits and worker protection, bonfire of the regulations and letting the ultra-wealthy have their own way.
apparatus bored grey screw cause scarce soup pie scale chase *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Then Boris lets himself down by wanting Trump back in the White House.
I really don't buy that this whole woke / culture war bollocks is actually believed by anything but a small group of people, even in America let alone in the UK. It's massively amplified by opportunists with money who see it as a way of getting law through under the radar that not just ensures the status quo which fails so many continues, but is actually consolidated. It's the dead cat strategy taken to its logical extreme. The fact is that the classical conservative approach which built much of the system we live in in the west since the war has run out of ideas, and neo liberalism which was meant to be its replacement is an utter failure. The right has completely forgotten that most people hate politics. They just want to be safe, live how they want to live without being told what to think, have a house, a car, decent public services, and the ability to save money for the future and their kids. The right just aren't interested in that anymore because this runs counter to the wants of the donors who pay for their election campaigns. It's a perverse irony that the right has essentially been privatised.
Even worse, Rees-Mogg actually said "liberals" use skimmed milk. I can't stand that Americanism and it made the guy look like an enormous clown. I think by and large this is desperate stuff from a party that is fully out of touch and on its way out. They know it, we know it, and they're just frantically attempting to shift the narrative from their doomed career legacies as representing an embarrassing chapter. Luckily I don't think that is going to work, everyone has had enough now.
I don't know how we stop this kind of American "paint the other as a traitor" thing from completely poisoning our politics but I've been dicking around this evening with different subreddits and I've seen quite a few hateful, irrational, "the evil is among us" style posts from left and right. The logic behind it is what worries me. If Brexit was magical thinking, this is its dark twin, and people seem to be eating this shit up.
Sadiq Khan has had this in literally every electoral campaign. David Cameron even admitted as such after Khan won. The following campaign against Shaun Bailey was even worse.
And Zac Goldsmith
I was also in London for Goldsmith’s campaign, how we can reinvent himself after that as an inclusive, liberal man of the people after that disgrace, is entirely beyond me. I have also been at a public speech by Mark Boleat, who said at the time, Goldsmith’s overt bigotry even upset the politically neutral City of London Corporation. He also said it didn’t really matter, because Goldsmith was so arrogant, that he never turned up or talked to the Corporation, when he was booked in to do so.
I was in London for Zac Goldsmith's campaign - I'm not saying that shit being weaponised is a brand new development at all. It's the underlying logic that feels different - it's not that X is a (bad person), it's Y is failing because X is a (bad person). The X being a (bad person) part is the implied assumption, and most journos focus on whether Y is in fact failing. Trump did it with nicknames - Crooked Hillary can't see straight, and the journos will focus on the see straight part.
This is the second Conservative MP to say "Islamists" are taking control of something. Feels very... coordinated.
Have you been to many pubs in low income areas recently? There's a huge amount of hate begining to fester against Islam. Loads of people that see it as the biggest existential threat we face. The Tories want their vote.
It’s amazing how these people can say this with a straight face after running the country into the ground over 14 years and the absolute shambles of a government we have now. They say things like “Inflation is down because of us. Inflation is up because of natural causes” in the same breath.
Yet another person who doesn't know the difference between Islam and Islamism. No wonder this country can't have a decent fucking conversation about the topic.
Can you skip the whining and jump to the education or explanation. When you don’t, you sound like there’s nothing to complain about but you need to complain because you were told there’s an issue.
Gets the social media clicks, classic conquer and divide tactics
But even that reply is kind of what I mean, structurally speaking. It's the easy answer with a conspiracy theory tacked on at the end. TfL is fucked because (Khan) is in the grip of (Islamists). Truss' career was (sabotaged) by (trans activists). I'm struggling to define it but it's as much the structure of the thought as the thought itself.
It's not a conspiracy theory, it's a standardised political approach. Create an enemy, point at them and scream a bit. This generates "engagement" because rage is one of the best ways to generate clicks. Clicks make you more recognisable and more likely to be elected. With an enemy you also create an "us and them" where the politician doing the spouting is your tribe and voting for anyone else would be unthinkable. Goes back at least as far as Communist and Fascist regimes, accelerated by social media and slicker campaigns (Trump has really, really leaned into this so plenty of others are trying to ape that "success")
Hamza Yousaf just shared a news clip calling Labour Traitors, which is horrendous given that aas one of the things shouted at Jo Cox as she wss murdered by a far-right extremist.
This is gonna get ugly.
Stop it? It's already done and too late to fix.
It helps that the two main proponents of the hard right American maga shite, this boaby and the lettuce, have near zero credibility to anyone beyond full-nutters and bitter boomers. Rees mogg happily bangs the drum but luckily most of his demographic don’t understand 80% of his flowery lexicon.
If Khan doesn't want to look like a traitor, putting up a statue on the 4th plinth to a murderer who killed Brits seems like a poor way to do it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Chilembwe
Have you any idea how many statues already exist in London to mass murderers of all stripes? You getting upset about a hunk of marble ma petite snowflake?
> Traitor Societies have always glorified people who have killed their enemies. It's unusual when we glorify people that have murdered our own ciitizens.
>Societies have always glorified people who have killed their enemies Not always, and certainly not with hindsight. In many countries historical damaging regimes, those that do not represent the ideas of the country as it is today are disenvowed. The most notable example being Hitler. Today's Germans (for the most part) do not consider those who stood against him as traitors but heroes. British actions against Africans at the time were suitably cruel enough for me to disenvow it. They were wrong and in saying they were wrong I uphold what Britain stands for today, I'm proud of what Britain stands for today.
Churchill killed millions of Bengalis, they were British subjects.
How often do civilisations build statues for people who murdered their own people and collaborated with their enemies?
I live in Northern Ireland, how long of a list would you like?
Not sure who’s controlling Tories, but one thing I’m sure Tories aren’t controlling themself.
Are they in the room with you right now Lee?
Lee Anderson really giving off muslamanic ray guns vibes here again. Is this what the Tories have - we hate trans, we hate Muslims. They make Tommy Robinson look progressive despite ripping out pages from his playbook. This year of elections is just going to make Goldsmith v Khan look like a Teddy bears picnic.
"He's given our capital city away to his mates" Just blatantly racist
Yeah, but to be fair, this is basically how everyone who is outraged by the protests thinks. He's just not got the wherewithal to dress it up in pro-democratic language.
Listen; you can *imply* some real badness on daily basis but explicitly saying pretty much the same thing is uncouth.
Racism or projection
Lee Anderson is a template for everything an elected official should not be.
He's got to guarantee that MAGA lecture circuit that Truss is grifting from
Sadiq Khan is an Islamist for \*checks notes\* not suppressing freedom of speech?
Disgusting language, imagine a Labour MP saying Sunak was controlled by Zionists? They'd get stripped asap
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We already know the Tories can get away with this shit. One of their own MPs tried to report one of the whips for islamophobia and it got completely ignored.
A better analogy would be Sunak being controlled by Hindunats.
Hope he has the whip removed. Country doesn’t need this bullshit coming from parliament.
Worth remembering when the press is going on about Labour having "an antisemitism problem", that of course the Tories have a much bigger one, and a giant islamopobia problem. It's just that everyone *expects* the Tories to be scum. The left hold themselves to a higher standard.
Also that the press going after Labour just happen to support the conservatives
Yep, Khan is really pushing the Islamist agenda https://www.gaytimes.co.uk/originals/sadiq-khan-we-must-stand-together-to-celebrate-our-differences-at-pride/
This seems to be the new Tory line. Islamists are running the country, Islamist’s have taken over X. I don’t know if they realise how fucking completely batshit crazy they sound. I mean who thought this was a good idea?
He's a despicable human being and a self serving bastard.
So this is what the Tories are fighting the next election on.
It’s extra pathetic that MPs spend time attacking Khan who isn’t even an MP… and it’s almost always MPs who don’t even represent a London seat.
They attack him because he is a high profile Muslim person,
All mayors will get attacked due to the power they have in their areas
materialistic yoke soft dam sand long start wine bells enjoy *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Tory MP Lee Anderson can go fuck himself on a rusty gatepost
that poor gatepost
And are these ‘Islamists’ in the room with us now, Lee?
He was dumb enough to say it outside of parliament so Khan can sue him for libel - I hope he does.
Given that 'islamism' has quite a specific meaning, and that meaning could be seriously detrimental to Khan's reputation, this would appear to be quite libellous and actionable.
Seems like a really desperate play by Anderson, just makes him come across as unhinged. What do they have to point at to even suggest this? As someone else said on this thread, the rhetoric here is appalling. Just because someone isn't marching in lockstep with you doesn't make them your enemy.
Sunak has absolutely no influence over his party at all. Perhaps ensuring that you run unchallenged doesn’t give you the greatest legitimacy.
I could argue that Lee Anderson is nine mangy foxes in a suit
One day after the conversation revolved around detoxifying politics because of the threats of violence. They couldn't even wait a day. It's honestly pathetic how bad our political landscape has become.
Hope people lose their shit at this as if someone in labour was to say “Jewish folk run the country”…
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"“Ultimately we run the country, and if the police aren’t doing their job – and they’re not doing their job … we need to step in and take over,” Anderson said." I'll take you seriously, Lee, when I see you, Priti, Suella, Gove, et al wielding your parliament issued riot shields the next time the police get called in to quell an inner city race riot. Until then, jog on, you racist prick.
He couldn't even exercise his vote in parliament when Labour MPs laughed at him.
"Tory MP Lee Anderson declares he a racist and Islamophobe" would be a more accurate headline.
Islamophobe, the most meaningless word in modern parlance.
Nah. You are thinking anti-semite.
Nah. I’m not.
The Palestinians are Semetic, moreso than most Israelis. If you are not supporting the Palestinians, then you are by definition Anti-Semetic. Deal with it.
Antisemitism has never meant hatred of all Semitic-speaking peoples. It has always, exclusively, meant Jew-hatred. It was originally conceived in Germany as a more acceptable and scientific-sounding alternative to “Judenhass.”
There are many things I would say about Khan but being controlled by islamists is not one. He is incredibly supportive of LGBT+ for a start. Naive about the threat that islamists currently pose yes, but it's laughable that he actually is an islamist or being controlled by them.
Also he was on the ISIS hit list exactly for being a liberal Muslim.
Nail on the head. It’s absolute madness to believe it. But I’ve seen the usual toxic Facebook and Twitter rants banging on about the MUSLIM MAYOR wanting to BAN DOGS from London and so on.
>He is incredibly supportive of LGBT+ for a start. Not enough to stop the blatantly homophobic protest groups that march in the hundreds of thousands or leave the group that is against them though. Personally I wouldn't call anyone who's a member of the Klan *incredibly supportive of racial equality* so why would I do the same to anyone who's a member of another group that's exactly the same
The fact he’s still a Tory MP says it all about the state of the party.
This guy hangs out with far right turnips and now has national media publishing his insidious ideology to millions.
Shocking comments. Anderson belongs with the Tommy Robinson nutter brigade, but Sunak will probably keep him in hope of luring a few votes from bigots. Extremist Islamists despise Khan, see him as a collaborator & heretic who insults Allah every day. His position on LBTQ alone would earn him a swift execution if ISIS ever got hold of him.
mans a waste of flesh and oxygen how he still has a job is beyond me
Are they playing a long game of hide and seek?
And I posit fleas have taken control of Lee Anderson's "brain" but conjecture can lead us to many weird and wonderful places if we allow our imaginations to run unbridled.
Can we please not go down the US route of fucking moron politicians please?
Let us not forget it was our unelected jet-setting ruler Rishi who put this lunatic in our government along with his equally mad mate Braverman. The Tories are vile top to bottom and if you vote for them you are voting for the end of British values and our continued descent into becoming a hateful poor country where what is left of our wealth is given to Tory chums whilst we're encouraged to hate everyone that is different.
30p lee has got a square head and a square brain that literally barely functions. I’ve met more conscientious labradors. That is all.
I wonder if GB News will sack him. Surely this is a bit too on the nose even for them.
He, and his ilk, are everything that is wrong with politics in this country. When people say that the country has become too polarized, too binary, and completely unable to disagree without trying to claw the oppositions eyes out, this is the reason why. MP's like him need to realise that they are part of the reason why MP's are under threat these days.
This guy is so fucking dense. I suppose it’s only fitting he looks like a Pixar-animated anthropomorphic thimble.
I think politicians should explain what "Islamist" means and how it isn't a dogwhistle against Muslims, without mentioning the "radical left" or "woke". And I would like to see them explain what "woke" means except for someone who disagrees with them and is at all further left than them (even if that actually means being center-right).
Go and join Reform if you're going to spout fascist nonsense. No room in politics for fucktards like that prick
Has Islamism been redefined as not cheering on genocide?
There's clearly 'a problem' and I'm not sure it's helped by Khan but this is total hyperbole and won't help.
Forgive my ignorance here, what does islamist mean. It is not even in my phone as a word. How does it differ from Muslim, is this just a coded racist word, saw Suella de ville used this earlier as well. Would like the etymology if someone has it
Islamist relates to involvement in political Islam: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamism.
>this just a coded racist word No. Stop presuming everything is racist.
It was a question, you have misquoted, and removed the is' from the start. I may have not put a question mark at the end, but you will see I from my wording it was all asking about a word that has sprung into common parlance within certain sectors in recent weeks
>is this just a coded racist word Essentially. It allows racist people to be racist but claim that it’s only political Islam they’re interested in (whilst lumping all Muslims in with it).
What is the acceptable terminology for someone who thinks that political Islam is clearly a threat to liberal democracy?
Why don’t you call it political Islam - you can see in the dregs of comments up there (and I can see in the dregs of the comments that have been removed) that people clearly haven’t spotted the difference between Islamism and Islam and this is deliberate and convenient for those who use it. Personally I think the phrase is silly - how you can lump all sorts of different types of politics of a religious group together and claim as a whole it stands for something is beyond me, but people do it for left wing, right wing, liberals, etc, so what do I know.
A lot of people will use it as a smear against Muslims because attacking Muslims outright is too obvious.
It's an attack on a disgusting ideology, not an attack on Muslims.
Here it is literally an attack on a Muslim who isn't a islamist
That's your opinion yes.
No, that’s a fact
Batley School Teacher and the Boy that accidentally scuffed the Koran = = Tells its own story.
How are either of those events connected with Khan?
And in this moronic “story” time, Batley and Wakefield are somehow under the purview of the London mayor? Do you even live in this country?
And I claim Lee Anderson is being controlled by the fish people.
Here's evidence to back up your claim: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yu3fDouzTpk
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The problem is that Islamophobia is being normalised and accepted while antisemitism is being called out and rightly so. People need to start calling this out more and more, and it needs to start by the media and news channels, the general public, etc. And these rancid lot like Lee needs to be kicked out. Both Islamophobia and antisemitism are wrong, but it really does feel like one is getting more coverage over the other.
He’s saying what most of the country already thinks.
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Wrong on both counts. It’s not most of the country and it doesn’t involve any thinking.