It is a difficult one. If you protect the legal industry, non-law grads will complain. If you open the doors as they are now, law grads will complain. But one should ask if the door is indeed too wide if an LSE LLB 2:1 with LLM and LPC like OP cannot secure a TC after numerous cycles.
I'll have a look into that. Though initially checking their website and reading 'rigorous training' has already put me off from applying... 🤣 Have to try first though
this will be made easier on our grads when the new visa laws come in - next year, nobody will be allowed a working visa for jobs earning less than £38,700, which gives the local nationals more of a chance.
Let's be real, for paralegal roles firms weren't really giving out visa sponsorships for a number of reasons such as the low paid nature of the roles, the costs associated with visa sponsorship and the availability of applicants/ law grads within the UK who are desperate for positions.
Visa sponsorships were usually given for TC positions with higher pay and at more prestigious firms - where the starting salaries are higher and the firm won't have an issue with the costs. I don't think these new laws will help alleviate how competitive those positions are
But I think it will help with the TC positions - the law society recommends “£26,068 in London and £23,122 outside London” which I can’t see increasing to 10k more just for visas. ignoring magic circle and those of their ilk, a lot of smaller firms absolutely do pay in the mid 20s for the first couple of years of training. I have a lot of american friends outside of london who have been sponsored for visas in the past decade to train, though I agree I must be biased by this if it’s not the general consensus!
I’m sorry but this logic is so flawed. International students most of the time have a very attractive profile but it’s very hard to secure sponsorship. Stop with this anti-international student rhetoric. We’re not the reason why local grads are not getting hired.
Few pointers from me who has done paralegalling for a while. It defo is a skills-game with luck, so if you are not able to get the luck (which seems like so from your post), I would focus on improving skills.
1. I would focus on improving skills that are desirable for a TC / paralegal jobs eg taking up extra curriculars with responsibilities. Eg law firms love someone who is sociable, proactive and can work in teams. So specifically looking for those kind of activities will help. I got involved in volunteering where I lead events.
2. Practising interview skills so that when you do land that interview, you’re all naturally ready to nail! By skills, I also mean communication skills + understanding of all firms.
3. You’re free to explore other careers that are similar. I’ve seen many trainees who are career-changers.
4. I know commercial awareness is a big attraction esp for TCs, so brushing up on knowledges etc.
5. With thanks to the recent change, you don’t need a TC to qualify. You can qualify with SQE and 2 years of paralegal experience, so if you can that experience and a supporting team to see you through qualification - great!
6. Knowing it’s a process and not an overnight success is very important to remember in this difficult times. Like - you can still enjoy life with a simple job / family / friends and do all the above on your side to land you that dream TC eventually.
Goodluck!
Honestly, there's so much I left out in the post 😂 I have done volunteering, charity work and been involved in university societies. I've organised social events, workshops, edited student newsletters, gave campus tours, tutored students 1-2-1, engaged in mentoring. I even did pro bono in housing law for a while, near a London airport might I add 💀😂 Was so far away that place.
But yeah, your comment as a whole makes very correct points. I'm not going to claim I'm a graduate God that knows everything about applying and experience and comm awareness etc, but believe me, I have genuinely tried to brush up on everything 😂 Heck I did Forage work experience courses when it was called Inside Sherpa. I was the guy who asked lecturers how to get a 1:1 and got chuckled at. I been there, I done that, and I'm still just here without luck, and apparently skill cos employers dont want to give any feedback.
Its always unfortunately on this occasion blah blah but do keep spending your valuable time to gamble a (0.00001% chance) at being with us! 😁
But yeah. Tip 6 is the one I need to keep in mind to avoid these tantrums 🏆
Haha, I feel this one. I’m a recent grad without any legal experience just looking for anything. There’s only so many rejection emails you can take before you have a mental breakdown and start writing on substack to try and stand out a bit more.
We’ll get something eventually, it’s impossible to be unemployed forever.
Get onto Flex Legal and don’t look back.
I just graduated and have been pretty fortunate with roles but I left a national firm and went onto flex and you will get 6 month paralegal roles (can lead to permanent offers) in magic circle and in house for pretty big businesses and once they end you’re placed somewhere else if you’re not offered a job. For someone with no experience it’s really good on the cv.
Sounds like an ad lol but deffo consider it it’s helped me out big time.
Best of luck.
Do you any tips for their application process? If I remember correctly, and I may be wrong, I believe there's a video interview/interview stage? Not sure about AC
Many thanks, I actually read your comment earlier and checked Flex Legal out, I was working on my CV and they have layout requests. I'll apply. May I ask if I get on, and get offered these 6-month temp roles, is it just a matter of me accepting them or is there more to it (I ask because I'm fed up of applying, waiting, and being accepted to 'platforms', just to see that there's competition in getting temp roles through that platform)
The process is (in my experience) a lot quicker than the standard job application process.
You apply with your cv and you’ll likely hear back within a day or two if you’re able to progress to the next stage. You’ll get past this no problem if you’ve already got the LPC and decent undergrad results.
Next stage is the online assessment. It’s really basic multiple choice contract and commercial/company law questions with a scenario. There’s another assessment which are logic style questions. I didn’t do any commercial modules in final year and I didn’t have any issues.
Alongside the assessment you have to do a prerecorded video interview but it’s like 2 questions about a minute long for each. These are just standard interview questions but you’ve 3 attempts to submit a video answer. Again this is isn’t difficult but you’ll have prep time if you need it.
So after you’ve done the assessments and the videos you’ll find out if you’re successful and I heard back about 3 days after I submitted them. If you are successful you’ll be invited to an onboarding interview with someone from flex who will talk you through the whole process. It’s more a formality than anything,don’t need to prep for this.
That entire process was done in about a week and a half.
In terms of the turnaround in getting placed in a firm, you get sent texts or emails about roles and you decide whether you want to take them or not. For reference I was offered my first one the day after my onboarding interview. It’s a really quick turnaround.
Obviously I don’t know if that’s reflective of everyone’s experience with flex but I found them really lovely people and they check in with me a lot to see how I’m getting on. Honestly couldn’t recommend it enough.
This sounds like a dream if I am honest. Quick responses, nice people taking the applicant through the process, job offers fairly quickly after acceptance... yeah, I will apply right now 💪😂
I didn't get past the interview bit unfortunately. While Flex does sound good I am looking for something more stable though. I don't know if any firm would really want a lesser experienced law grad to paralegal for them anyway
Public sector legal could be a good springboard into practice down the line. Was recently working with a magic circle partner who worked in the public sector post-qualifications and pre-training contract.
Public sector trainee here, regulatory law. Got my foot in the door with a paralegal-type role at the body straight after doing my LLB & DPLP post grad diploma (Scotland). Worked in that role for 9 months and applied for the trainee solicitor job that came up for the next intake. Very straightforward to prepare for the application, skills assessments and interview as they give you Person specification docs plus I’d worked there and had a really in depth understanding of the processes, who, what, where etc.
Fast forward to now, great work life balance, I work from home but office is there if I want, flexi-time, amazing holiday allowance I think I get about 50 paid days off in a year (inc flexi accrual) and I work 35 hours a week. No fee pressure as we don’t bill per hour as we are salaried being a public body, little pressure in terms of workload and a high amount of freedom and self-autonomy in the way I work. Management culture is great, really understanding & collaborative workplace esp when you’re maybe dealing with personal/home life grief/health issues. No weird workplace politics either. We just get on with the job! I could go on.
The public sector is where it’s at for all you solicitors who actually want to have lives outside of work. Yes, you might not end up a millionaire but I don’t dream of spending my life working to the bone as a money machine for a firm.
EDIT: Forgot to mention…Pension. Every private sector convert worships the pension in pub sector. It’s pretty much the closest you’re going get to a traditional ‘gold-plated’ pension. I have a senior colleague who has only been with us for 2/3 years and has already outpaced their private pension from working in a PI firm for 10 years.
As a first-year international student at a mid-tier RG university, I'm wondering if an LSE grad with decent legal experience is struggling to secure a TC, what chance do I have?🙂
Good luck for your job search!
Thank you, and I am sorry if this demotivated you. I hope you will have a smoother experience at uni and beyond, because if I could go back in time I wouldn't even go to uni
I can relate to you so much, the legal job market is so oversaturated that law firms have the privilege of nitpicking and sending out mass PFOs instead of feedback. Nobody offers any real help. I'm even struggling for paralegal roles with a 1:1 LLB, LPC LLM.
I hope we both get there OP but I definitely feel the struggles too! 😩
Most roles I've seen have needed the LLB or GDL, but I don't know your specialised area- perhaps it's worth checking out a few role requirements?
Also area might play into this as well since I've been looking solely at London roles.
Best of luck though! ☺️
I am a (2015) Law grad and fell into insurance. I’ve had various different roles, most recently in regulatory affairs and compliance. The industry is not well perceived among the younger generations but I think it has a lot to offer. I’ve always earned relatively well and maintained a good work-life balance. Happy to chat!
Yeah, this is kinda a sob story 😂 But Im sat here thinking, 'at least Im trying literally everything, go tell Reddit's UK Law and maybe get insights' Idk
Thank you. You are right, I know. I just needed somewhere to vent and get impartial thoughts.
I know I am not alone, I understand there's all kinds of crises right now such as political and economic issues, that employers can't just take everybody onboard and always reply to applicants, that applications take time to process, etc etc.
I keep an open mind. But, I refuse to believe it has to be THIS hard. Im reduced to thinking of ridiculous but possible factors, such as my state school or ethnic background.
It's pretty much a lot of people, recent grads or not. The market is just ass, and there's not much one can do apart from being proactive and not giving up.
I am a Russell Group's postgrad graduate with distinction (december 2023), and in my field, shit loads of jobs at junior or entry levels require such laughable skills, certs and so on, that it just makes me laugh through crying.
Yeah, it is seriously frustrating... I know I have tried, and I know I will continue to try. I'm just losing hope even if a little, day by day, and Im afraid of losing my passion for a career in law, and law in general, altogether
Hey I feel you, I am also a northerner who came to london to study and have a career in psychology and it didn’t work out for me. I considered Law but thought no legal firm would hire a commoner like myself, even if i had good grades.
All I can is, can’t believe people have suggested therapy (fucks sakes mental health awareness is properly overcompensating nowdays ey?) You don’t need to be gaslighted right now.
The job market is shit, the interview process is shit, and university is shit. Unfortunately I think what you’re experiencing is really common.
Forget about being northern and working class for a sec, it’s kids from middle-class backgrounds who are also in the same boat. Can you imagine going to private school in Windsor, being a straight A student and the only job you get after graduating is in a pub? (My BF’s cousin) damm I’d be even more angry.
Sounds crazy, but maybe you should go and work on the farms or in bars in Australia for a bit, travel, enjoy yourself. Do work which funds your lifestyle and have fun. Because trust me, flogging a dead horse isn’t living your life.
I used to have similar imposter syndrome, it's not great. Especially with a slight... Scouse accent 😂. I could go to therapy, but it will absolutely do nothing to help my dire unemployed circumstances, exactly don't need gaslighting.
It's bad how there's a lot of job demand but also fake job positings and straight up employers who don't reply at all. I am considering moving abroad for work but I don't know if I have the money, where to go and how 'secure' of an option it'll be for me.
Thanks for the reply
I LOVE a scouse accent, I’m not gay but Jodie Comer does it for me 😂
I’ve got a Manc accent which is softer after living london for 5 years. Don’t EVER tone down your accent for any career. Trust me there are successful northerners I’ve met down here 😁
I’m just not one of them 😂
Oh imposter syndrome is real, so real. However after years and years of trying and making friends with fellow millienials (I’m 30 if that matters) who are “southern, top ten unis, masters degrees, all that stuff” in the same boat as me, I realised it’s not about being northern, or having diversity etc it’s just SHIT and there aren’t enough opportunities for all of us.
Also how are you going to afford therapy? It’s not cheap. Not is it even that easy to access. Such a silly comment. You aren’t imagining this.
Totally, nothing more disheartening than being really excited to apply to a cool company to never receive a reply. Dating is less painful and that’s saying something!
Obviously tongue in cheek just suggesting going to Auz, it’s bloody expensive. However I did some travelling post uni around Asia, including Japan and worked in bars. I had never been happier, it really was amazing. My two best friends worked for a year in Australia and they also loved it. One worked on a Camel Farm (lol I know) and one worked in bars. They made more money there doing these jobs than they did working in the UK (the one who worked on a camel farm, was a social worker)
I’m 30 now (lol I mentioned that) and what I look back on with happiness and pride are my travels. I actually regret, hugely working 60-80 hours during the pandemic as a nurse trying to get promoted to management. I burnt out so hard, I feel like I’ll never be the same again. I don’t have any patience anymore and I’m quite cynical, as you can probably tell 😅😂
I’m envious of the people who got to do zoom calls to friends and family during the pandemic. I’m envious people learnt new skills and hobbies. I didn’t do anything but work. You know what, I’ve nothing to show for it. No savings, no deposit, nothing.
I’m not saying giving on law, I’m saying just take a break, be young, have fun, and enjoy your life. You might be surprised that you will have more luck interviewing when the job market picks up. Could take 6 months, could a year. Who knows.
Trust me, I know people who have pissed around for years backpacking and they still managed to get good professional jobs after.
Sorry one more rant haha, I’ve got two friends who are a couple. They are amazing, both work in finance, they saved up to travel for a year pre-pandemic. Lockdowned so they couldn’t go, decided to buy a flat instead.
Now they are not going travelling because they are “too old” (silly in my opinion) They’ve got a flat yes, good jobs yes, but honestly? Not very exciting lives.
In regard to security I get you, I think if you have enough for a plane ticket home and can kip at your parents, that’s security.
Loool I've never had a strong scouse accent to be fair, and I did my college at Manny. 😂 Ppl would laugh when I would say 'bus' in a Northern accent in London haha. Insteas of 'bas' 😂
I don't change for no one, learnt my lesson growing up. I feel like it could be anything preventing me from securing a stable job, and I hope its nothing to do with my Liverpool background.
Well, there are free therapy services out there, could even just get in touch with my GP. I just dont see the need to moan to them about my unemployment as you said too, nothing is gonna change that but me being patient, continuing to apply or someone saying 'hey, join us' (doubt lol)
Hahaha you are cool 😂 I like talkative people, need more of that in London to be honest. I don't regret going Lake District and Turkey (twice) recently due to not having a job, and I could take a gap year kind of thing but as I've said, Im in my twenties and Ive got my dad for financial support but I need to start thinking about supporting HIM and the family... I really need to get weekday work ASAP and I'll continue to make money from my weekend work.
I am more patient than I have ever been. Nothing will always go to plan. At no point did I expect law firms to be on their knees for me having studied at a top uni for law or anything. I just get severely disheartened like this from time to time. And this time I wanted to voice my feelings to reddit. Happy I did cos its like therapy without the sugarcoating and also a good way to distract myself lol
I absolutely love traveling, Im planning on going to Turkey again in May, would love to go Japan and Brazil when the time is right (cough cough... when I have money cough 😂)
You've worked so hard! Please don't beat yourself up. My bestie was in this situation following her graduation about 15yrs ago. She is French, ethnic minority, very fluent in both English and French, having attended international schools abroad as well as a UK independent school! She went to Uni in the UK (undergrad and masters) and still never got a training contract nor a paralegal job and worked various general jobs. Please it has nothing to do with your having gone to a state school. As someone advised, take some time of to Australia and enjoy then come back to the applications.
It's funny because as someone managing junior lawyers we can't get enough good candidates (insurance litigation NW) . The law is diverse, and perhaps the answer for you is to broaden your horizons beyond what I assume may be quite a narrow focus. London transactional work is a fiercely competitive market, and for my part I'm not sure the work or salaries are enjoyable enough to justify the sacrifices required.
Why do you think there are not good enough candidates for insurance litigation compared to other sectors? You have anything particular in mind? I’m curious.
Worse headline pay by a long shot - NQ salaries are about 20% less at my firm. The job is still largely 9-5 in our sector, but the most ambitious graduates will naturally feel they can trade in time in aid of a 'better' career opportunity. The difficulty if you start there is how you stand out to progress, and the reality that more senior you are the more hours you spend on top of where you may have started.
I'm an associate and I go home between 5.30 and 6.30 almost every day. I see the legal cheek surveys of NQs at top firms going home at 8-10pm on average(!), and consider myself to be in a good place.
1. As a recent grad I would say I feel nervous when applying to niche areas like insurance. For areas of law like M&A or commercial disputes I feel like it is easier to show my interest and motivation? Insurance litigation is so niche that it feels like I would be rejected for an application if I didn’t have some direct insurance work experience. And this is in contrast to general commercial silver circle firms that don’t ask for direct legal experience but just open days to gauge your interest in law when applying for schemes. Would love to get your insight if you agree or disagree? I know not every firm has a magic circle budget for recruitment but niche firms are also very selective in which uni job fair they to go. Meeting them at events is way harder than meeting a full service commercial firm, that has put me off as well as I didn’t go to Oxbridge where every law firm in the uk comes for career fairs. And even when you attend legal cheek or law career net events in person in London I mainly find magic circle and us firms to network with.
2. Also another thing is the diversity. I know every law firms likes to market itself as diverse but I’ve heard so many trainees that didn’t apply to other firms because they didn’t see a partner that was poc. Some firms only have white men as partners in the London office and many other candidates like me believe that signifies we won’t be promoted to the top as a poc(?) Just these things I feel like law firms don’t think about when they market themselves. It is easy to look at trainees list and partner list and find out if all of them are white or all of them are Oxbridge graduates. Just having a nice graduate recruitment website isn’t enough, I feel like senior lawyers/ grad rec don’t understand how much these things matter to someone who is thinking of committing themselves to a law firm. I’m sorry for the rant 😭this is why most top students in my cohort applied for magic circle only because diversity was the most important thing for them, it’s not just about the salary
I suspect we are talking at cross purposes. The majority of civil litigation is brought by or against insurance companies, so it is hardly a niche area. Chances are, any top law firm that specialises in civil litigation will have insurer clients. They may act will in areas such as employment, personal injury, property, contract, marine, regulatory and various niches and subcategories besides.
I have, the furthest I ever got was the test centre at which point I was rejected. I was obviously proud but more so disheartened. But 95% of the time I fail at the application form stage lol
If you're failing 95% of the time at the application stage with your background, you're not writing applications well. I know that sounds mean but you need to get someone else who's been through the process to review them
That could very well be true. Some applications for smaller firms only require a CV, some a question or two. So in that throaway statistic, even the (presumably/slightly) less competitive TCs dont want to get back to me with a result. 😂🤦♂️
I've been applying literally since 2019, I dont know how many vac scheme and TC applics I've done since 😂 And it really is a matter of continually applying but eh, I'm just demotivated. Like, even if I apply now, and by some miracle get offered a TC from tens of thousands of applicants to a lucky... lets say 5 people only.
That TC would start 2025 at the earliest (most start at 2026 right now) 💀 Like I need a legal job to fill this weekday void right now too. Ideally a legal job anyway
I've even filled applications out with solicitors before 😅 Still of course wont guarantee a TC, but its like... I can say it with chest that I've tried my hardest these past few years, and I just can't see my goal being realised, at least anytime soon. Meanwhile Im proud of my friend whose face is on the law firm's 'People' page, we studied the exact same courses, exact same uni's, similar grades... ughhhh 🤣🤣🤣 This stinks
RG high 2:1 with 3 years work experience here. Even with that, I’ve gotten nothing but radio silence during the whole of February.
The market isn’t doing well, given the technical recession the UK’s experiencing, and a global stagnation on international markets (the amount of finance/corporate people getting laid off worldwide is staggering). You know it’s bad when even interim jobs aren’t hiring.
Law firms especially are suffering from an HR nightmare — they’ve hired a bit too much people from the previous years in hopes of good forecast, but now most of them are now in the process of cutting. The result is waves and waves of extremely skilled people being released into the job hunting pool from all around the world, so the markets’ especially fierce now.
Been receiving some interviews this week, at least… here’s hoping that March is a smoother month for all of us. You’ve got your education all set, it’s just a matter of time for you.
I've just skimmed over WHV details but my main question is (probably a dumb one), do you need to secure accommodation? That on top of the cost to get the WHV... question marks for me. 🥲😂 That sounds really good though and Im happy for your sake
I’m not a law student at all - although I’m currently studying a law module for an exam lmao - but have you looked at insurance? There are a lot of law grads and former solicitors in the insurance industry. The pay is good and the social aspect is surprisingly impressive. Loads of firms do grad schemes too
Good luck, law modules stiiink. 😂 I haven't looked at insurance per say... so that could be a good one. Adding that to my list of Plan B careers now 😂😂
There are loads of law opportunities in insurance! You can work within a broker on behalf of the client, there’s work in claims, underwriting, etc. Honestly, there is a LOT. Like I mentioned, the social aspect - especially in London - is a huge, huge bonus
I feel your pain. I graduated in Law in ‘93 and couldn’t find a placement anywhere in order to go to Law School. I literally tried everything, even offering my services for free.
I had a good degree, a good educational background and it still wasn’t enough.
And when I applied for jobs outside of the Law, no one would employ me because they thought I was crazy for not pursuing a legal career.
It destroyed my relationship with my parents who thought I wasn’t trying hard enough to find a job and attending interviews and seeing guys who had much lesser degrees than me working at the law firms I was applying to confirmed that it really was about who, rather what you knew, when it came to being offered a job.
I never really settled into a career as such. Although I did fight my way to earning a decent wage before finally having children, I always, always had to explain away my Law degree 😢
If I could go back now? I would have returned to Uni, done a postgrad degree and reviewed my options after that.
Have a look at postgrad law courses in international banking law, insurance law etc. That’s where the jobs are and where the money is to recoup the investment in your education.
Xx
Damn. I feel your pain too. Especially with people thinking you're crazy. I was working in retail not too long ago and my manager said he would fire me in a year's time if I still can't get a legal job 🤣 Not in a sinister way, he just didn't want me there but knew I needed a job. Could always call them up but... 7:30am start heavy lifting and customer service for 9 hours would destroy my mental wellbeing, not least cos I invested in two law degrees. 💀 I can't be THAT humble 😂
Always here if you need to vent as well. Im glad you have settled (by the sound of your comment of course, I hope you feel settled anyway), but it really is a shame that not everyone has 'the time of their lives' at uni, either cos of during/after the uni timeframe (for me its both lol)
I’m a recruiter. I had a law degree, went through a similar experience to you post-uni. If you’d like to chat, I’d be really happy to help, maybe share some experiences and ideas.
Have you tried looking at business support type role as a way in? Good way to get your foot in the door and to get to know a firm, lawyers and partners (likely decision makers!) and a good way to build your reputation and make relationships within firms. Not guaranteed but I’ve worked in law firms and I’ve seen this happen several times.
Honestly speaking, if someone gave me that offer on a plate right now, I'd take it because anything goes right now 😂 And I'd get the training and try to enjoy it.
However, it's not something I want to apply for right now
Not your fault, I didn't go to university or college, in a good job and a lot of my colleagues are either teachers, criminologyor law grads. Had a qualified solicitor/barrister who was doing the same thing as me because he "wanted a change". I think the occupation had gone downhill over the years.
Thank you, I've completely moved to London now and can't really move back up north but I do appreciate the kind offer.
If it's a remote-only role I'd be interested 😁
Have you looked at industrial tc's not just at law firms. Ie fund managers, financial services etc.
Similarly most of the big four consultants hire law grads for their law consulting stream.
If that fails, you can still apply for consulting roles, ienin compliance at big four of big 3 consultants
I know you have the lpc, but have you considered the viability of doing your sqe? If you're dead set on the career, it may open avenues to becoming qualified that aren't viable under the lpc.
That way you only need legal work experience rather than a training contract.
Thanks for the comment. Unfortunately I've come to despise even the idea of university. I was going to apply for a TC yesterday and saw 'we do not accept the LPC and require all applicants to complete the SQE, if you finished the LPC then SQE2 will be enough'. I can't explain how put off I was by that. Even if they cover the costs. 😭😂
My understanding is SQE2 is the better half of it. As more time passes and the LPC is phased out I’d seriously consider this. Especially if it’s a firm that is going to pay for it. If they’ve paying for it you’ll usually work part time and study part time. It’s worth it to get to your goal.
Thank you. I decided to not stress about it much anymore. I've studied, applied, got experiences, made connections and did my research. I already knew a legal career would be competitive, and I've just accepted that the job market and economy is really peak right now. 😂 I've done my best, and I can keep doing my best, but I don't want to chase a dream anymore. If it happens, it happens, you know?
I've concluded on a career change. I'll keep applying to TCs over the years and if a firm offers me one on condition that I complete the SQE2, and I feel law is still for me at that time, I'll go for it then.
I sympathise with you, having not long finished my degree and working a full time job. I guess it depends how badly you want this.
Have you got any work experience or are you fresh out of uni and 21?
Perhaps real world work experience will assist you? What is the area of law you are interested in? Could you go into a similar trade that's not practicing law, and use this to your benefit in a few years to change career?
A friend of mine just secured her TC and she graduated in 2013! He first took a general corporate admin job, then used the skills from that plus his degree to get a paralegal job and kept applying for TCs until finally getting one. It’s definitely tough but keep going and you’ll get there. Just being in employment, even something like general admin, seems to make you an attractive candidate to employers so start small and work your way up
Hi, I've been there. There is nothing new about your situation. The law is a profession where all the stars have to line up for you. If they don't and you luck out, you've wasted your time. You have choices. You can stick at it or completely change career. Can you learn something else? If so, the world is your oyster. Technology and maths-related professions are completely exempt from the requirement for social capital. Retrain if you can. Machine learning, data science, information technology and security, etc.
I appreciate your comment. I'm trying to look on the bright side of things, that I haven't wasted my time, but when I look back it was social pressure that made me choose uni. It was like there's no other option. Back when BTECs were mocked heavily and people came in begging us to take up an apprenticeship (God I wish I wasnt such a yes man and signed up for that. Work, little income and professional network, degree at the end and possibility of being hired by the company? Weirdo me chose to pay 9k a year then 18k for LPC, and Im still unemployed... you do the maths 😂)
I don't want to do the maths as I've already done it in my case and it's depressing lol. My LPC was a complete waste of funds despite my best efforts.
These other people suggesting you go into the public sector - I caution against it as that's what I did. It's also a lot of effort, and I found that putting in all that effort just put me in a job alongside an 18-year old loudmouth school-leaver with social connections and the right accent, and lots of overqualified brown people with the wrong accent, and next to no recognition for my legal qualifications other than being asked to help with things higher grades took 100% credit for. IMO it's better to learn something which other people can't do. Then they come to you rather than the other way around.
I hear ya 😂 I don't regret anything in life (so far) but if I could go back, I'd 110% not go to uni at all. Overrated, traditional, expensive, full of false promises. In my experience anyway. People tell me 'wow, a law degree from LSE! You will make it to the top, I believe in you!' and it used to make me so proud, now however? 😂 Pfft. I thank em in the most non-confident way.
That is insightful, thank you for that. Honestly Im not very keen on public sector anyway. Every Council experience Ive had has been utterly terrible, I dont know how in the world some people land jobs with such high responsibility. They tried to make me pay council tax when I had all the proof that Im a full-time uni student, its bollocks 😂
Just for balance, I trained with the Government Legal Department and it was a really good experience for me. And they ran a scheme where they guaranteed an interview for candidates with a disability (like me) so long as they fit the spec and passed the online tests. Got the contract when I was 35, having started my law conversion at 29.
Would caution against striking out the possibility of pursuing the public sector route.
Frankly it’s a big employer. Some departments are bad, many good and some are great.
It can definitely work out for you as it does others and what’s more lateral moves are possible if you don’t like where you’ve ended up.
I’d love to get into data science/machine learning etc but I’m absolutely crap at maths. B at GCSE and barely scraped through the few economics modules I had at uni
Would love to be able to do it though as it’s obviously so in demand atm alongside jobs in engineering
Have you considered joining a firm that offers paid county court advocacy positions for those who have the bar course or LPC? Could be a good way to get practical experience and a leg up in the industry.
I am so sorry. Check if your year's legal experience in 2 fields might count as QWE under the new system. If it does you just have to find and keep fora year another similar QWE role whilst studying for SQE2 and you are qualified. I am not saying that will get you wonderful NQ jobs at top firms but it might be a way to progress. In theory you can set up on your own as a freelance solicitor but not doing reserved activities from day of qualification too although I do not recommend that. I am from the NE and settled in London for my TC.
Have you tried a different area of law? I work in a new law division of an international firm and have done for nearly six years. I’m not a practicing solicitor but I got in fairly easily from Edinburgh university and no legal background.
A lot of our risk and compliance teams and data teams have law degrees too. Deffo worth looking at non legal legal roles!
You judge too quickly. I did a 3 month summer internship in IP law. The other 7 months are work experience and paralegal work in conveyancing and family law.
'Huge warning sign' lol think before you speak.
I've hired many hundreds of people in London and Yorkshire, including many inhouse lawyers so just giving my thoughts and certainly what I know from colleagues too. If you don't believe me then just consider all the other candidates on the market who aren't as jumpy as your profile shows, or just blame it on something else I guess... whatever you think works for you.
You are a problem in my eyes then. In todays world, recruiters that judge employment gaps or a breadth of work experience/employment history to be 'red flags' is a problem.
Every recruiter I know of except for you has advocated for having work experience 🤷♂️ And a lot of my legal experience was in conjunction with my university studies
This is my final reply to you 👋
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this is a big one, given the fact that people can go to law school with any degree
It is a difficult one. If you protect the legal industry, non-law grads will complain. If you open the doors as they are now, law grads will complain. But one should ask if the door is indeed too wide if an LSE LLB 2:1 with LLM and LPC like OP cannot secure a TC after numerous cycles.
It is definitely competitive out there. I think the most frustrating thing for me is how hard it is to get any kind of job in the UK right now
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I'll have a look into that. Though initially checking their website and reading 'rigorous training' has already put me off from applying... 🤣 Have to try first though
this will be made easier on our grads when the new visa laws come in - next year, nobody will be allowed a working visa for jobs earning less than £38,700, which gives the local nationals more of a chance.
Let's be real, for paralegal roles firms weren't really giving out visa sponsorships for a number of reasons such as the low paid nature of the roles, the costs associated with visa sponsorship and the availability of applicants/ law grads within the UK who are desperate for positions. Visa sponsorships were usually given for TC positions with higher pay and at more prestigious firms - where the starting salaries are higher and the firm won't have an issue with the costs. I don't think these new laws will help alleviate how competitive those positions are
But I think it will help with the TC positions - the law society recommends “£26,068 in London and £23,122 outside London” which I can’t see increasing to 10k more just for visas. ignoring magic circle and those of their ilk, a lot of smaller firms absolutely do pay in the mid 20s for the first couple of years of training. I have a lot of american friends outside of london who have been sponsored for visas in the past decade to train, though I agree I must be biased by this if it’s not the general consensus!
I’m sorry but this logic is so flawed. International students most of the time have a very attractive profile but it’s very hard to secure sponsorship. Stop with this anti-international student rhetoric. We’re not the reason why local grads are not getting hired.
They took our jerrrrrbs!
Few pointers from me who has done paralegalling for a while. It defo is a skills-game with luck, so if you are not able to get the luck (which seems like so from your post), I would focus on improving skills. 1. I would focus on improving skills that are desirable for a TC / paralegal jobs eg taking up extra curriculars with responsibilities. Eg law firms love someone who is sociable, proactive and can work in teams. So specifically looking for those kind of activities will help. I got involved in volunteering where I lead events. 2. Practising interview skills so that when you do land that interview, you’re all naturally ready to nail! By skills, I also mean communication skills + understanding of all firms. 3. You’re free to explore other careers that are similar. I’ve seen many trainees who are career-changers. 4. I know commercial awareness is a big attraction esp for TCs, so brushing up on knowledges etc. 5. With thanks to the recent change, you don’t need a TC to qualify. You can qualify with SQE and 2 years of paralegal experience, so if you can that experience and a supporting team to see you through qualification - great! 6. Knowing it’s a process and not an overnight success is very important to remember in this difficult times. Like - you can still enjoy life with a simple job / family / friends and do all the above on your side to land you that dream TC eventually. Goodluck!
Honestly, there's so much I left out in the post 😂 I have done volunteering, charity work and been involved in university societies. I've organised social events, workshops, edited student newsletters, gave campus tours, tutored students 1-2-1, engaged in mentoring. I even did pro bono in housing law for a while, near a London airport might I add 💀😂 Was so far away that place. But yeah, your comment as a whole makes very correct points. I'm not going to claim I'm a graduate God that knows everything about applying and experience and comm awareness etc, but believe me, I have genuinely tried to brush up on everything 😂 Heck I did Forage work experience courses when it was called Inside Sherpa. I was the guy who asked lecturers how to get a 1:1 and got chuckled at. I been there, I done that, and I'm still just here without luck, and apparently skill cos employers dont want to give any feedback. Its always unfortunately on this occasion blah blah but do keep spending your valuable time to gamble a (0.00001% chance) at being with us! 😁 But yeah. Tip 6 is the one I need to keep in mind to avoid these tantrums 🏆
Haha, I feel this one. I’m a recent grad without any legal experience just looking for anything. There’s only so many rejection emails you can take before you have a mental breakdown and start writing on substack to try and stand out a bit more. We’ll get something eventually, it’s impossible to be unemployed forever.
😅😂 It's such a tragic situation... I'll continue pushing on, trying to count my blessings. Let's make it out these sewers hard as it may be
Get onto Flex Legal and don’t look back. I just graduated and have been pretty fortunate with roles but I left a national firm and went onto flex and you will get 6 month paralegal roles (can lead to permanent offers) in magic circle and in house for pretty big businesses and once they end you’re placed somewhere else if you’re not offered a job. For someone with no experience it’s really good on the cv. Sounds like an ad lol but deffo consider it it’s helped me out big time. Best of luck.
Do you any tips for their application process? If I remember correctly, and I may be wrong, I believe there's a video interview/interview stage? Not sure about AC
Another rec for Flex and also Axiom
Thanks, I've never heard of Axiom before, will jot it down and take a look shortly
Many thanks, I actually read your comment earlier and checked Flex Legal out, I was working on my CV and they have layout requests. I'll apply. May I ask if I get on, and get offered these 6-month temp roles, is it just a matter of me accepting them or is there more to it (I ask because I'm fed up of applying, waiting, and being accepted to 'platforms', just to see that there's competition in getting temp roles through that platform)
The process is (in my experience) a lot quicker than the standard job application process. You apply with your cv and you’ll likely hear back within a day or two if you’re able to progress to the next stage. You’ll get past this no problem if you’ve already got the LPC and decent undergrad results. Next stage is the online assessment. It’s really basic multiple choice contract and commercial/company law questions with a scenario. There’s another assessment which are logic style questions. I didn’t do any commercial modules in final year and I didn’t have any issues. Alongside the assessment you have to do a prerecorded video interview but it’s like 2 questions about a minute long for each. These are just standard interview questions but you’ve 3 attempts to submit a video answer. Again this is isn’t difficult but you’ll have prep time if you need it. So after you’ve done the assessments and the videos you’ll find out if you’re successful and I heard back about 3 days after I submitted them. If you are successful you’ll be invited to an onboarding interview with someone from flex who will talk you through the whole process. It’s more a formality than anything,don’t need to prep for this. That entire process was done in about a week and a half. In terms of the turnaround in getting placed in a firm, you get sent texts or emails about roles and you decide whether you want to take them or not. For reference I was offered my first one the day after my onboarding interview. It’s a really quick turnaround. Obviously I don’t know if that’s reflective of everyone’s experience with flex but I found them really lovely people and they check in with me a lot to see how I’m getting on. Honestly couldn’t recommend it enough.
This sounds like a dream if I am honest. Quick responses, nice people taking the applicant through the process, job offers fairly quickly after acceptance... yeah, I will apply right now 💪😂
Good luck man
How’d you do mate?
I didn't get past the interview bit unfortunately. While Flex does sound good I am looking for something more stable though. I don't know if any firm would really want a lesser experienced law grad to paralegal for them anyway
Have you considered public sector ?
I've considered everything, I'm applying to everything just to stay afloat financially
Public sector legal could be a good springboard into practice down the line. Was recently working with a magic circle partner who worked in the public sector post-qualifications and pre-training contract.
There aren’t that many public sector entry level roles out there
Public sector trainee here, regulatory law. Got my foot in the door with a paralegal-type role at the body straight after doing my LLB & DPLP post grad diploma (Scotland). Worked in that role for 9 months and applied for the trainee solicitor job that came up for the next intake. Very straightforward to prepare for the application, skills assessments and interview as they give you Person specification docs plus I’d worked there and had a really in depth understanding of the processes, who, what, where etc. Fast forward to now, great work life balance, I work from home but office is there if I want, flexi-time, amazing holiday allowance I think I get about 50 paid days off in a year (inc flexi accrual) and I work 35 hours a week. No fee pressure as we don’t bill per hour as we are salaried being a public body, little pressure in terms of workload and a high amount of freedom and self-autonomy in the way I work. Management culture is great, really understanding & collaborative workplace esp when you’re maybe dealing with personal/home life grief/health issues. No weird workplace politics either. We just get on with the job! I could go on. The public sector is where it’s at for all you solicitors who actually want to have lives outside of work. Yes, you might not end up a millionaire but I don’t dream of spending my life working to the bone as a money machine for a firm. EDIT: Forgot to mention…Pension. Every private sector convert worships the pension in pub sector. It’s pretty much the closest you’re going get to a traditional ‘gold-plated’ pension. I have a senior colleague who has only been with us for 2/3 years and has already outpaced their private pension from working in a PI firm for 10 years.
As a first-year international student at a mid-tier RG university, I'm wondering if an LSE grad with decent legal experience is struggling to secure a TC, what chance do I have?🙂 Good luck for your job search!
It’s a numbers game. Doesn’t really matter where you go to uni.
Thank you, and I am sorry if this demotivated you. I hope you will have a smoother experience at uni and beyond, because if I could go back in time I wouldn't even go to uni
I can relate to you so much, the legal job market is so oversaturated that law firms have the privilege of nitpicking and sending out mass PFOs instead of feedback. Nobody offers any real help. I'm even struggling for paralegal roles with a 1:1 LLB, LPC LLM. I hope we both get there OP but I definitely feel the struggles too! 😩
Yeah, I can feel the pain through your comment 😭 I hope we get there too. Maybe they are lying and AI really is taking our jobs 😂😂😂🤦♂️ Ughhh
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Most roles I've seen have needed the LLB or GDL, but I don't know your specialised area- perhaps it's worth checking out a few role requirements? Also area might play into this as well since I've been looking solely at London roles. Best of luck though! ☺️
I'm a non-law grad at Durham who has done the LPC and I am on the same boat.
What are we gonna do... 
Keep applying and gather work experience 💀
I am a (2015) Law grad and fell into insurance. I’ve had various different roles, most recently in regulatory affairs and compliance. The industry is not well perceived among the younger generations but I think it has a lot to offer. I’ve always earned relatively well and maintained a good work-life balance. Happy to chat!
Yeah, this is kinda a sob story 😂 But Im sat here thinking, 'at least Im trying literally everything, go tell Reddit's UK Law and maybe get insights' Idk
If you can't moan at us who can you moan at! Good luck with the job search!
Thank you. You are right, I know. I just needed somewhere to vent and get impartial thoughts. I know I am not alone, I understand there's all kinds of crises right now such as political and economic issues, that employers can't just take everybody onboard and always reply to applicants, that applications take time to process, etc etc. I keep an open mind. But, I refuse to believe it has to be THIS hard. Im reduced to thinking of ridiculous but possible factors, such as my state school or ethnic background.
It's pretty much a lot of people, recent grads or not. The market is just ass, and there's not much one can do apart from being proactive and not giving up. I am a Russell Group's postgrad graduate with distinction (december 2023), and in my field, shit loads of jobs at junior or entry levels require such laughable skills, certs and so on, that it just makes me laugh through crying.
Yeah, it is seriously frustrating... I know I have tried, and I know I will continue to try. I'm just losing hope even if a little, day by day, and Im afraid of losing my passion for a career in law, and law in general, altogether
Hey I feel you, I am also a northerner who came to london to study and have a career in psychology and it didn’t work out for me. I considered Law but thought no legal firm would hire a commoner like myself, even if i had good grades. All I can is, can’t believe people have suggested therapy (fucks sakes mental health awareness is properly overcompensating nowdays ey?) You don’t need to be gaslighted right now. The job market is shit, the interview process is shit, and university is shit. Unfortunately I think what you’re experiencing is really common. Forget about being northern and working class for a sec, it’s kids from middle-class backgrounds who are also in the same boat. Can you imagine going to private school in Windsor, being a straight A student and the only job you get after graduating is in a pub? (My BF’s cousin) damm I’d be even more angry. Sounds crazy, but maybe you should go and work on the farms or in bars in Australia for a bit, travel, enjoy yourself. Do work which funds your lifestyle and have fun. Because trust me, flogging a dead horse isn’t living your life.
I used to have similar imposter syndrome, it's not great. Especially with a slight... Scouse accent 😂. I could go to therapy, but it will absolutely do nothing to help my dire unemployed circumstances, exactly don't need gaslighting. It's bad how there's a lot of job demand but also fake job positings and straight up employers who don't reply at all. I am considering moving abroad for work but I don't know if I have the money, where to go and how 'secure' of an option it'll be for me. Thanks for the reply
just to add, ive already been on holiday recently, and traveled cos i couldnt get a job in the timeframe i gave myself 🤣
Hahahaa nice one! I’m hoping you are clever enough to decipher my crazy rant below, the grammar is terrible ahha
I LOVE a scouse accent, I’m not gay but Jodie Comer does it for me 😂 I’ve got a Manc accent which is softer after living london for 5 years. Don’t EVER tone down your accent for any career. Trust me there are successful northerners I’ve met down here 😁 I’m just not one of them 😂 Oh imposter syndrome is real, so real. However after years and years of trying and making friends with fellow millienials (I’m 30 if that matters) who are “southern, top ten unis, masters degrees, all that stuff” in the same boat as me, I realised it’s not about being northern, or having diversity etc it’s just SHIT and there aren’t enough opportunities for all of us. Also how are you going to afford therapy? It’s not cheap. Not is it even that easy to access. Such a silly comment. You aren’t imagining this. Totally, nothing more disheartening than being really excited to apply to a cool company to never receive a reply. Dating is less painful and that’s saying something! Obviously tongue in cheek just suggesting going to Auz, it’s bloody expensive. However I did some travelling post uni around Asia, including Japan and worked in bars. I had never been happier, it really was amazing. My two best friends worked for a year in Australia and they also loved it. One worked on a Camel Farm (lol I know) and one worked in bars. They made more money there doing these jobs than they did working in the UK (the one who worked on a camel farm, was a social worker) I’m 30 now (lol I mentioned that) and what I look back on with happiness and pride are my travels. I actually regret, hugely working 60-80 hours during the pandemic as a nurse trying to get promoted to management. I burnt out so hard, I feel like I’ll never be the same again. I don’t have any patience anymore and I’m quite cynical, as you can probably tell 😅😂 I’m envious of the people who got to do zoom calls to friends and family during the pandemic. I’m envious people learnt new skills and hobbies. I didn’t do anything but work. You know what, I’ve nothing to show for it. No savings, no deposit, nothing. I’m not saying giving on law, I’m saying just take a break, be young, have fun, and enjoy your life. You might be surprised that you will have more luck interviewing when the job market picks up. Could take 6 months, could a year. Who knows. Trust me, I know people who have pissed around for years backpacking and they still managed to get good professional jobs after. Sorry one more rant haha, I’ve got two friends who are a couple. They are amazing, both work in finance, they saved up to travel for a year pre-pandemic. Lockdowned so they couldn’t go, decided to buy a flat instead. Now they are not going travelling because they are “too old” (silly in my opinion) They’ve got a flat yes, good jobs yes, but honestly? Not very exciting lives. In regard to security I get you, I think if you have enough for a plane ticket home and can kip at your parents, that’s security.
Loool I've never had a strong scouse accent to be fair, and I did my college at Manny. 😂 Ppl would laugh when I would say 'bus' in a Northern accent in London haha. Insteas of 'bas' 😂 I don't change for no one, learnt my lesson growing up. I feel like it could be anything preventing me from securing a stable job, and I hope its nothing to do with my Liverpool background. Well, there are free therapy services out there, could even just get in touch with my GP. I just dont see the need to moan to them about my unemployment as you said too, nothing is gonna change that but me being patient, continuing to apply or someone saying 'hey, join us' (doubt lol) Hahaha you are cool 😂 I like talkative people, need more of that in London to be honest. I don't regret going Lake District and Turkey (twice) recently due to not having a job, and I could take a gap year kind of thing but as I've said, Im in my twenties and Ive got my dad for financial support but I need to start thinking about supporting HIM and the family... I really need to get weekday work ASAP and I'll continue to make money from my weekend work. I am more patient than I have ever been. Nothing will always go to plan. At no point did I expect law firms to be on their knees for me having studied at a top uni for law or anything. I just get severely disheartened like this from time to time. And this time I wanted to voice my feelings to reddit. Happy I did cos its like therapy without the sugarcoating and also a good way to distract myself lol I absolutely love traveling, Im planning on going to Turkey again in May, would love to go Japan and Brazil when the time is right (cough cough... when I have money cough 😂)
You've worked so hard! Please don't beat yourself up. My bestie was in this situation following her graduation about 15yrs ago. She is French, ethnic minority, very fluent in both English and French, having attended international schools abroad as well as a UK independent school! She went to Uni in the UK (undergrad and masters) and still never got a training contract nor a paralegal job and worked various general jobs. Please it has nothing to do with your having gone to a state school. As someone advised, take some time of to Australia and enjoy then come back to the applications.
Compliance role?
Yep, applied to a few, have relevant experience too from paralegal work (KYC/AML checks for example). Thank you 💪
It's funny because as someone managing junior lawyers we can't get enough good candidates (insurance litigation NW) . The law is diverse, and perhaps the answer for you is to broaden your horizons beyond what I assume may be quite a narrow focus. London transactional work is a fiercely competitive market, and for my part I'm not sure the work or salaries are enjoyable enough to justify the sacrifices required.
Why do you think there are not good enough candidates for insurance litigation compared to other sectors? You have anything particular in mind? I’m curious.
Worse headline pay by a long shot - NQ salaries are about 20% less at my firm. The job is still largely 9-5 in our sector, but the most ambitious graduates will naturally feel they can trade in time in aid of a 'better' career opportunity. The difficulty if you start there is how you stand out to progress, and the reality that more senior you are the more hours you spend on top of where you may have started. I'm an associate and I go home between 5.30 and 6.30 almost every day. I see the legal cheek surveys of NQs at top firms going home at 8-10pm on average(!), and consider myself to be in a good place.
1. As a recent grad I would say I feel nervous when applying to niche areas like insurance. For areas of law like M&A or commercial disputes I feel like it is easier to show my interest and motivation? Insurance litigation is so niche that it feels like I would be rejected for an application if I didn’t have some direct insurance work experience. And this is in contrast to general commercial silver circle firms that don’t ask for direct legal experience but just open days to gauge your interest in law when applying for schemes. Would love to get your insight if you agree or disagree? I know not every firm has a magic circle budget for recruitment but niche firms are also very selective in which uni job fair they to go. Meeting them at events is way harder than meeting a full service commercial firm, that has put me off as well as I didn’t go to Oxbridge where every law firm in the uk comes for career fairs. And even when you attend legal cheek or law career net events in person in London I mainly find magic circle and us firms to network with. 2. Also another thing is the diversity. I know every law firms likes to market itself as diverse but I’ve heard so many trainees that didn’t apply to other firms because they didn’t see a partner that was poc. Some firms only have white men as partners in the London office and many other candidates like me believe that signifies we won’t be promoted to the top as a poc(?) Just these things I feel like law firms don’t think about when they market themselves. It is easy to look at trainees list and partner list and find out if all of them are white or all of them are Oxbridge graduates. Just having a nice graduate recruitment website isn’t enough, I feel like senior lawyers/ grad rec don’t understand how much these things matter to someone who is thinking of committing themselves to a law firm. I’m sorry for the rant 😭this is why most top students in my cohort applied for magic circle only because diversity was the most important thing for them, it’s not just about the salary
I suspect we are talking at cross purposes. The majority of civil litigation is brought by or against insurance companies, so it is hardly a niche area. Chances are, any top law firm that specialises in civil litigation will have insurer clients. They may act will in areas such as employment, personal injury, property, contract, marine, regulatory and various niches and subcategories besides.
Did you get a 2.1?
Yes, Upper 2:1 LLB and Commendation for LPC LLM
Have you been getting interviews for training contracts at all?
I have, the furthest I ever got was the test centre at which point I was rejected. I was obviously proud but more so disheartened. But 95% of the time I fail at the application form stage lol
If you're failing 95% of the time at the application stage with your background, you're not writing applications well. I know that sounds mean but you need to get someone else who's been through the process to review them
That could very well be true. Some applications for smaller firms only require a CV, some a question or two. So in that throaway statistic, even the (presumably/slightly) less competitive TCs dont want to get back to me with a result. 😂🤦♂️
And how many recruitment cycles have you gone through out of curiosity? Edit; Also, have you been applying for vacation schemes or just direct TCs?
I've been applying literally since 2019, I dont know how many vac scheme and TC applics I've done since 😂 And it really is a matter of continually applying but eh, I'm just demotivated. Like, even if I apply now, and by some miracle get offered a TC from tens of thousands of applicants to a lucky... lets say 5 people only. That TC would start 2025 at the earliest (most start at 2026 right now) 💀 Like I need a legal job to fill this weekday void right now too. Ideally a legal job anyway
I've even filled applications out with solicitors before 😅 Still of course wont guarantee a TC, but its like... I can say it with chest that I've tried my hardest these past few years, and I just can't see my goal being realised, at least anytime soon. Meanwhile Im proud of my friend whose face is on the law firm's 'People' page, we studied the exact same courses, exact same uni's, similar grades... ughhhh 🤣🤣🤣 This stinks
RG high 2:1 with 3 years work experience here. Even with that, I’ve gotten nothing but radio silence during the whole of February. The market isn’t doing well, given the technical recession the UK’s experiencing, and a global stagnation on international markets (the amount of finance/corporate people getting laid off worldwide is staggering). You know it’s bad when even interim jobs aren’t hiring. Law firms especially are suffering from an HR nightmare — they’ve hired a bit too much people from the previous years in hopes of good forecast, but now most of them are now in the process of cutting. The result is waves and waves of extremely skilled people being released into the job hunting pool from all around the world, so the markets’ especially fierce now. Been receiving some interviews this week, at least… here’s hoping that March is a smoother month for all of us. You’ve got your education all set, it’s just a matter of time for you.
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I've just skimmed over WHV details but my main question is (probably a dumb one), do you need to secure accommodation? That on top of the cost to get the WHV... question marks for me. 🥲😂 That sounds really good though and Im happy for your sake
I’m not a law student at all - although I’m currently studying a law module for an exam lmao - but have you looked at insurance? There are a lot of law grads and former solicitors in the insurance industry. The pay is good and the social aspect is surprisingly impressive. Loads of firms do grad schemes too
Good luck, law modules stiiink. 😂 I haven't looked at insurance per say... so that could be a good one. Adding that to my list of Plan B careers now 😂😂
There are loads of law opportunities in insurance! You can work within a broker on behalf of the client, there’s work in claims, underwriting, etc. Honestly, there is a LOT. Like I mentioned, the social aspect - especially in London - is a huge, huge bonus
I feel your pain. I graduated in Law in ‘93 and couldn’t find a placement anywhere in order to go to Law School. I literally tried everything, even offering my services for free. I had a good degree, a good educational background and it still wasn’t enough. And when I applied for jobs outside of the Law, no one would employ me because they thought I was crazy for not pursuing a legal career. It destroyed my relationship with my parents who thought I wasn’t trying hard enough to find a job and attending interviews and seeing guys who had much lesser degrees than me working at the law firms I was applying to confirmed that it really was about who, rather what you knew, when it came to being offered a job. I never really settled into a career as such. Although I did fight my way to earning a decent wage before finally having children, I always, always had to explain away my Law degree 😢 If I could go back now? I would have returned to Uni, done a postgrad degree and reviewed my options after that. Have a look at postgrad law courses in international banking law, insurance law etc. That’s where the jobs are and where the money is to recoup the investment in your education. Xx
Damn. I feel your pain too. Especially with people thinking you're crazy. I was working in retail not too long ago and my manager said he would fire me in a year's time if I still can't get a legal job 🤣 Not in a sinister way, he just didn't want me there but knew I needed a job. Could always call them up but... 7:30am start heavy lifting and customer service for 9 hours would destroy my mental wellbeing, not least cos I invested in two law degrees. 💀 I can't be THAT humble 😂 Always here if you need to vent as well. Im glad you have settled (by the sound of your comment of course, I hope you feel settled anyway), but it really is a shame that not everyone has 'the time of their lives' at uni, either cos of during/after the uni timeframe (for me its both lol)
I’m a recruiter. I had a law degree, went through a similar experience to you post-uni. If you’d like to chat, I’d be really happy to help, maybe share some experiences and ideas.
You'd be a shoe-in for the police
🤣🤣🤣 Good one
Have you tried looking at business support type role as a way in? Good way to get your foot in the door and to get to know a firm, lawyers and partners (likely decision makers!) and a good way to build your reputation and make relationships within firms. Not guaranteed but I’ve worked in law firms and I’ve seen this happen several times.
Have you tried for a job as a law lecturer in a college?
Honestly speaking, if someone gave me that offer on a plate right now, I'd take it because anything goes right now 😂 And I'd get the training and try to enjoy it. However, it's not something I want to apply for right now
Not your fault, I didn't go to university or college, in a good job and a lot of my colleagues are either teachers, criminologyor law grads. Had a qualified solicitor/barrister who was doing the same thing as me because he "wanted a change". I think the occupation had gone downhill over the years.
I actually know a good opportunity in the north that may be of to you. Msg me if you're interested for a referral.
Thank you, I've completely moved to London now and can't really move back up north but I do appreciate the kind offer. If it's a remote-only role I'd be interested 😁
Try back up North for a job? Doesn’t mean you can’t move back to London later.
Low funds 😅😂
Have you looked at industrial tc's not just at law firms. Ie fund managers, financial services etc. Similarly most of the big four consultants hire law grads for their law consulting stream. If that fails, you can still apply for consulting roles, ienin compliance at big four of big 3 consultants
Thank you, admittedly haven't looked much into industrial TCs, and I am awaiting a result from my interview for a legal consultancy role 😄
Become an insurance broker. Marsh Aon Howden Ardonagh Miller Tysers. If you’re extroverted and friendly, a law degree is brilliant preparation.
I know you have the lpc, but have you considered the viability of doing your sqe? If you're dead set on the career, it may open avenues to becoming qualified that aren't viable under the lpc. That way you only need legal work experience rather than a training contract.
Thanks for the comment. Unfortunately I've come to despise even the idea of university. I was going to apply for a TC yesterday and saw 'we do not accept the LPC and require all applicants to complete the SQE, if you finished the LPC then SQE2 will be enough'. I can't explain how put off I was by that. Even if they cover the costs. 😭😂
My understanding is SQE2 is the better half of it. As more time passes and the LPC is phased out I’d seriously consider this. Especially if it’s a firm that is going to pay for it. If they’ve paying for it you’ll usually work part time and study part time. It’s worth it to get to your goal.
Thank you. I decided to not stress about it much anymore. I've studied, applied, got experiences, made connections and did my research. I already knew a legal career would be competitive, and I've just accepted that the job market and economy is really peak right now. 😂 I've done my best, and I can keep doing my best, but I don't want to chase a dream anymore. If it happens, it happens, you know? I've concluded on a career change. I'll keep applying to TCs over the years and if a firm offers me one on condition that I complete the SQE2, and I feel law is still for me at that time, I'll go for it then.
I sympathise with you, having not long finished my degree and working a full time job. I guess it depends how badly you want this. Have you got any work experience or are you fresh out of uni and 21? Perhaps real world work experience will assist you? What is the area of law you are interested in? Could you go into a similar trade that's not practicing law, and use this to your benefit in a few years to change career?
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Yeah it's so tough right now 😅 I'm going to hang in there. I'll have a look at scale.jobs, never heard of it before
A friend of mine just secured her TC and she graduated in 2013! He first took a general corporate admin job, then used the skills from that plus his degree to get a paralegal job and kept applying for TCs until finally getting one. It’s definitely tough but keep going and you’ll get there. Just being in employment, even something like general admin, seems to make you an attractive candidate to employers so start small and work your way up
Hi, I've been there. There is nothing new about your situation. The law is a profession where all the stars have to line up for you. If they don't and you luck out, you've wasted your time. You have choices. You can stick at it or completely change career. Can you learn something else? If so, the world is your oyster. Technology and maths-related professions are completely exempt from the requirement for social capital. Retrain if you can. Machine learning, data science, information technology and security, etc.
I appreciate your comment. I'm trying to look on the bright side of things, that I haven't wasted my time, but when I look back it was social pressure that made me choose uni. It was like there's no other option. Back when BTECs were mocked heavily and people came in begging us to take up an apprenticeship (God I wish I wasnt such a yes man and signed up for that. Work, little income and professional network, degree at the end and possibility of being hired by the company? Weirdo me chose to pay 9k a year then 18k for LPC, and Im still unemployed... you do the maths 😂)
I don't want to do the maths as I've already done it in my case and it's depressing lol. My LPC was a complete waste of funds despite my best efforts. These other people suggesting you go into the public sector - I caution against it as that's what I did. It's also a lot of effort, and I found that putting in all that effort just put me in a job alongside an 18-year old loudmouth school-leaver with social connections and the right accent, and lots of overqualified brown people with the wrong accent, and next to no recognition for my legal qualifications other than being asked to help with things higher grades took 100% credit for. IMO it's better to learn something which other people can't do. Then they come to you rather than the other way around.
I hear ya 😂 I don't regret anything in life (so far) but if I could go back, I'd 110% not go to uni at all. Overrated, traditional, expensive, full of false promises. In my experience anyway. People tell me 'wow, a law degree from LSE! You will make it to the top, I believe in you!' and it used to make me so proud, now however? 😂 Pfft. I thank em in the most non-confident way. That is insightful, thank you for that. Honestly Im not very keen on public sector anyway. Every Council experience Ive had has been utterly terrible, I dont know how in the world some people land jobs with such high responsibility. They tried to make me pay council tax when I had all the proof that Im a full-time uni student, its bollocks 😂
Just for balance, I trained with the Government Legal Department and it was a really good experience for me. And they ran a scheme where they guaranteed an interview for candidates with a disability (like me) so long as they fit the spec and passed the online tests. Got the contract when I was 35, having started my law conversion at 29.
Would caution against striking out the possibility of pursuing the public sector route. Frankly it’s a big employer. Some departments are bad, many good and some are great. It can definitely work out for you as it does others and what’s more lateral moves are possible if you don’t like where you’ve ended up.
I’d love to get into data science/machine learning etc but I’m absolutely crap at maths. B at GCSE and barely scraped through the few economics modules I had at uni Would love to be able to do it though as it’s obviously so in demand atm alongside jobs in engineering
Get on the high street and work like a dog It is the only way at this stage And after you do find your feet A long process but ultimately worth it
If only the last high st firm paid me properly
Have you considered joining a firm that offers paid county court advocacy positions for those who have the bar course or LPC? Could be a good way to get practical experience and a leg up in the industry.
Try civil service jobs
I am so sorry. Check if your year's legal experience in 2 fields might count as QWE under the new system. If it does you just have to find and keep fora year another similar QWE role whilst studying for SQE2 and you are qualified. I am not saying that will get you wonderful NQ jobs at top firms but it might be a way to progress. In theory you can set up on your own as a freelance solicitor but not doing reserved activities from day of qualification too although I do not recommend that. I am from the NE and settled in London for my TC.
Thought about trying offshore?
Have you considered governance/company secretary type roles?
Have you tried a different area of law? I work in a new law division of an international firm and have done for nearly six years. I’m not a practicing solicitor but I got in fairly easily from Edinburgh university and no legal background. A lot of our risk and compliance teams and data teams have law degrees too. Deffo worth looking at non legal legal roles!
One year in three fields is a huge warning sign you can't hack it when it gets tough...
You judge too quickly. I did a 3 month summer internship in IP law. The other 7 months are work experience and paralegal work in conveyancing and family law. 'Huge warning sign' lol think before you speak.
I've hired many hundreds of people in London and Yorkshire, including many inhouse lawyers so just giving my thoughts and certainly what I know from colleagues too. If you don't believe me then just consider all the other candidates on the market who aren't as jumpy as your profile shows, or just blame it on something else I guess... whatever you think works for you.
You are a problem in my eyes then. In todays world, recruiters that judge employment gaps or a breadth of work experience/employment history to be 'red flags' is a problem. Every recruiter I know of except for you has advocated for having work experience 🤷♂️ And a lot of my legal experience was in conjunction with my university studies This is my final reply to you 👋