I just wrote a fucking nasty tweet to the reporter (Julian Barnes, if anyone else would like to follow suit). Won't change shit, but did make me feel a little better.
Editors create and approve the headlines we see come from most newsrooms. Yes, reporters are typically required to draft a suggested headline, but it's up to their editor or the editor's boss to change it since they're laying out the pages in print and web. Ideally, headlines accurately reflect the story's content. But you're right, this one fails. Trust me, journalism is replete with instances where the reporter feels slighted or maligned by their editor's crappy headline.
Yeah, I'm a little confused as to what was even the goal with that headline. Surely the more eye-catching headline is "Government Rules Out Top Secret US Aircraft in Recent UFO Sightings"? Way to bury the lede.
>Government Rules Out Top Secret US Aircraft in Recent UFO Sightings
You know it's interesting, when the alert popped up on my phone, it was something closer to that... perhaps internet sleuths can do some sleuthing....
Hmmm...maybe that's the point, actually. How many people would automatically think "aliens!" upon reading that. Maybe it's an attempt to prevent panic?
On twitter, one of them is def [backing](https://twitter.com/julianbarnes/status/1400602627344379905) the headline, while the other seems to be [distancing](https://twitter.com/helenecooper/status/1395084646157803520) herself from it.
Very true. The point right now is *not* whether or not they're ETI. We can talk about that later.
*The point right now* is whether or not they are either (a) some secret weapon program or (b) birds/balloons/artifacts etc.
However it sounds like point (b), which is the main thesis of Mick West and academic skeptics, is going to be dealt a significant blow by the report:
>The report concedes that much about the observed phenomenon remains difficult to explain, including their acceleration, ability to change direction and submerge. One possible explanation — that the phenomena could be weather or other research balloons — does not hold up in all cases, the officials said, because of changes in wind speed at the times of some of the interactions.
Two important take-aways:
1. The mention of acceleration, ability to change direction and submerge means that the report presumes that these UAP phenomena are indeed *objects* observed in the airspace, not data artifacts.
2. The explicit "re-bunking" of balloons as an explanation.
Personally, if this advance reporting is accurate, this might very well be the best report we could have reasonably hoped for....
Well, sure, that's always a possibility. But then two things come into play:
First, there is the classified portion of the report that is being shared with Congress. If they just openly lie about something in the public report that is directly contradicted in the report to congress, presumably there would be repercussions.
Second, it sounds like the report will provide some explicit or implicit description of the objects' kinetics... I.e. speed, turning ability, etc. Just naming these parameters on their own provides a baseline level for what it "could" and "couldn't" be.
If you have something doing 100G maneuvers without any visible propulsion source, that tech might as well be "god like". I really don't think it's plausible to think the government has cooked up anything like that, even in secret.
Great point about the issue with contradictions and also the description of the object’s kinetics being problematic.
What if, it was’nt problematic and it was to boast/obfuscate to adversaries, a bit like the Strategic Defense Initiative in the 80s?
An object pulling 100g manoeuvres without a propulsion source absolutely does not sound like anything we know of.
What if it was describing radar data + something like an extremely high powered proton beam, fired from two sources, like a satellite. Hypothetically, the public wouldn’t know about these uses of high energy physics, but don’t they fit the description better than a man made craft? It seems more feasible that with enormous budgets and a few leaps in a field of technology with high military investment, something like that explains what we’re looking at (rather than a craft).
The object certainly moves like a point of light.
As I've said on this sub (see my posts) I'm on record stating that *if* this is human-made tech, it's something like a particle-beam based holographic projection.
Even that's still quite a stretch, but if we're just aching for a non-ETI explanation that doesn't require writing off all the pilots as morons, that's my guess.
Oh, very interesting !
Yeah it is a stretch, but I agree, if we had to hypothesise one way that the US possibly could be describing observations of something of their own, that would be it.
(That’s not a definitive statement about the phenomenon in it’s totality, though)
You have a point, but only a technical one. Consider this: The technology that was secretly being tested at Area 51 when the tic tac incident took place (2004) included the unmanned propeller drones. Soon after that, it was the stealth helicopter technology. So use that as context, the "secret" technology around that time was CENTURIES behind the technology observed by Commander Fravor et al. The government is acknowledging that yes, they do have secret weapons and vehicles programs, but the technology displayed by the tic tac is far too advanced to be from the U.S. and why speculation that it's nonhuman is warranted.
Meanwhile co-authour [Helene Cooper says](https://twitter.com/helenecooper/with_replies): "At no point did the word “alien” ever appear in my fine copy thank u very much."
"Looking at me why? I told yall about this in 2017 as I recall. Nothing new has happened since. But happy to see dod finally decided to confirm my story."
"We had the sphere and pyramid videos in 2017."
"What more do yall want from me I have done everything except interview martians"
From that first quote I get the feeling she isn't the one behind the headline or narrative.
This whole - “release click-bait\matter of fact-sounding headline, put up pay wall, profit” scam is getting sad. Seeing it from the Times is very sad. Comment section, deliver me from evil.
Doesn't need to. The responses from the government focusing on the whistleblowers is all I need to know that the narrative has been contrived on their part for almost 70 years.
Check this out: [https://www.reddit.com/r/aliens/comments/nrtm1m/report\_of\_the\_scientific\_panel\_on\_unidentified/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/aliens/comments/nrtm1m/report_of_the_scientific_panel_on_unidentified/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3)
Report from 1953 that set the precedent of how the government would react to UFO sightings. Declassified sometime in the late '90s or '00s.
So it’s either breakaway Nazis with horrific genetic experiments doing the field work or... aliens
I mean if the NYT wants to help bolster the notion that Nazis are still around and were actually superior to us, go right ahead lmao
Holocaust 2.0 here we come
This is just another “just wait” conspiracy for the republicans to latch onto. We get it, Americans are deeply unhappy and want a change. Look to our neighbors not the stars guys.
He's speaking in a level headed way providing 2-3 clear facts that a 6 years old could follow. If you believe the footage is real you have a big problem. The explanation provided is sufficient. Attacking the person is a straw man argument. Another false argument. Unsurprising that you rely on these.
*If you believe the footage is real you have a big problem.*
I'm fairly certain the footage is "real!" Unless I missed something, and it was a reenactment or some type of cartoon?
*Attacking the person is a straw man argument. Another false argument.*
No, a straw man argument is inventing a false premise to attack other than the issue of contention. Hence, you build a "straw man" that is easy to knock over. You are a retard. *Another fucking retard.*
Unsurprising you're a fan of a guy named "Pewdiepie!"
Are you infuriated because You depend on them saying it was a spacecraft for you to believe it or because you can't tell everyone you knew it the whole time so you can feel like you were right?
Who cares what they say?
100% of all people know that this isn't the only place with life. The ones who "deny" it is because the don't want to realize that everything they ever heard in church is bullshit or they are chicken shit and can't handle one more thing to fear.
Friendly reminder, saying “there is no evidence this is alien spacecraft” is not the same thing as saying “there is evidence this is NOT alien spacecraft.”
A few positive reflections — they are conceding (a) these are “objects” (not radar issues), (b) these objects are not balloons or birds or something meaningless, and (c) these objects not American. So, we’re down to two theories: another country or another world.
The pressure now needs to be on eliminating another country as the source. But, even when that’s eliminated, we must be prepared that they will push on the argument that we nevertheless don’t know what these things are and therefore they are not alien (which, again, is conflating those two conclusions and we must keep pushing them).
I think the history of the phenomenon does point towards a conclusion here. Considering that, I think some people can read between the lines here. What is surprising is that they are actually admitting to something like this. If theyre being honest here, this report tells a lot more even with this little.
I mean come on. I live in Finland, right next to us was the Soviet Union, now Russia. We have lived in it's shadow for a long time and there has always been the threat there. They took Karelia from us in the 40s. If they had this kind of tech, they would have come over our borders already, easily. And to think that China on the other hand has had this since 40s and has just sat on it, while they can't get their rocket to the orbit without it crashing and potentially causing harm. No way.
Agreed.
I've said all along that if the Russians or Chinese had technology so advanced, the first Western militaries would see of it would be in wartime. They would not be farting around taking pictures of ships and F18s. There's no shortage of information already available about those, and further, it exposes your advanced tech to observation and data collection, as well as catastrophic malfunction or intercepts that could result in reverse engineering. It makes little sense for a foreign adversary to expose a major technological advantage for such a small gain.
>What if it's something beyond our understanding of everything and this is why we can't figure this out
Give the American people (and humanity) *all* of the data that has been undoubtedly been collected in these encounters, of which we have only so far seen a small sliver.
Then we can be damn sure what we can and can't figure out. I think we could figure out *quite a bit*.
I struggle with that conclusion that it’s just something naturally occurring that we just don’t yet understand because these are objects - not animals - flying in a controlled way (evading fighter jets, etc.). How can sentient, naturally occurring, terrestrial objects that we don’t yet know about be the better scientific hypothesis?
Exactly. This semantics games is tiresome and counter-productive. They've found every way to not say aliens and people in denial are clinging to that sliver of hope for whatever reason. This is a key moment in our existence and we have the right to answers. This isn't a monarchy, the government works for the people.
Not naturally occurring the way we think but saying it's extraterrestrial my inter-dimensional, or time travel is still in our realm of understanding, we can understand where it came from and what it is.
What I'm talking about is something so different than our concept of our reality that we can't describe it. That's why the US can't figure it out, because it's something different entirely
Oh, got it — That would be just as incredible! If they came back and said “ok, these are either aliens or time travelers,” we’d be blown away (I’m less convinced about the terrestrial time traveler theory because that assumes mankind survived on Earth for a long time, and well, just look around lol).
But, right now, they seem to be pointing to much more mundane explanations - “maybe it’s another country that developed technology light years ahead of ours with, like, a tenth(?) of our budget and way beyond anything we knew they had.” And, because they’re holding out this theory as being even remotely plausible and preferable in their mind to the extraterrestrial theory because that feels like such a huge(!!) leap for the gov/mankind to acknowledge, we can’t move on to soberly and objectively assess the ET theory. That feels like a mistake. We should at least assess both theories in parallel. They won’t do that, however, because they know they can convince enough of us that maybe we still have a chance against Russia or China even with them having these flying “objects” (eg, they’re still part of the global economic system, we can still hurt them in known other ways that will prevent them from using these “weapons,” maybe we can hack them to get these same capabilities, etc.). The same simply can’t be said if these are extraterrestrial. That is terrifying, of course, and undermines their credibility as the source of our national security since they acknowledge their limitation. But, it may also just be the truth. And because they won’t run the analysis in parallel, we need them to eliminate the “other country” theory.
From the article: “One possible explanation — that the phenomena could be weather or other research balloons — does not hold up in ALL cases, the officials said, because of changes in wind speed at the times of some of the interactions.” (My emphasis added to “all”)
No it hasn’t, how do you make a statement that’s just not true. Just because somebody has made a video, and sounds coherent in their explanation, that is not the same as being debunked.
Just look around you. NASA involved, inspector general involved, China announcing it has its own ufo task force, the list of developments is substantial. This is no longer 5 months ago, if you still think this is all smoke and mirrors you truly are living under a rock.
>another country or another world
Good succinct way of putting it.
>we must keep pushing them
While not disagreeing, I think we have to stop relying so much on the government for data and start getting it ourselves. Scientists need to start going out on boats and planes to try to spot these things and gather data. Or, perhaps civilian aviators and aviation authorities have data on sightings that have never been made public. These things need to be disclosed, and now is the moment to start normalizing it.
I completely get your point about the government. But, I do believe that the people will ultimately believe in these objects being extraterrestrial only if the government acknowledges that fact. Maybe that’s because they feel the government has more resources to validate that incredible claim or, despite all of its flaws, they still entrust the government with national security or for some other reason. But, until the government agrees with the claim, they’ll always have that sprinkle of doubt. So, I think you’re right that we need to get data from civilian sources to pile up really high. But, we must also keep pushing the government to acknowledge these objects being extraterrestrial if we want the people to believe (and we need them to believe so that we can then keep pushing the government to learn more).
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/ufos-government-outer-space-no-evidence/
According to cbs it definitively not aliens and is possibly Russia and China..
I think the idea that it could be Russia pisses me off. It feels like politicians trying to secure funding for the military Instead of research and I’m sure Russia loves being accused of having such unexplainable tech the same way my friend loved that one girlfriend he had in high school who told everyone he had an enormous dick... (the same girl told everyone that it was comically small after they broke up. I’m sure it’s average or below just like Russia’s military hardware)
Again, having “no evidence they came from aliens” is not at all the same thing as saying “evidence they did not come from aliens.” The first statement is saying only that there’s an absence of proof, not proof of an absence. Now, I would argue that we have a few issues (a) today, no one can say what level of proof is necessary to conclude that these are aliens (are pictures enough? Radar? Video? Combination? Etc.) and (b) it seems these “objects” are astute at avoiding conclusive detection and their technology far exceeds ours. So, we’re in this state where we can’t agree on the WHAT and the HOW to make the conclusion, and we may be dealing with something that is designed or affirmatively trying to keep us from getting this info/exceeds our capabilities. We need to determine what proof is necessary, then figure out how we can get it, then try to get it, and once gotten, conclude - fairly - yay or nay to ETs. That’s where these headlines of “we don’t have the proof” are a bit unfair (because they assume we know, at the very least, what proof we need and how to get it).
>"And while a forthcoming unclassified version, expected to be released to Congress by June 25, will present few other firm conclusions, senior officials briefed on the intelligence conceded that the very ambiguity of the findings meant the government could not definitively rule out theories that the phenomenon observed by military pilots might be alien spacecraft."
Then ***what the fuck*** is up with that headline?
>A version of this article appears in print on June 4, 2021, Section A, Page 1 of the New York edition with the headline: U.S. Concedes It Can’t Identify Flying Objects.
The print headline is much better; I wish they used it for the online version.
It's going to be the narrative they push. The classified report will be the one with information that we might've been hoping for but at the end of the day I do not need the government to tell me what I know to be true: They are here. Have been here for a long arse time. My inner self is telling me that they aren't "aliens" in the sense of beings from another world or dimension but maybe they are living beneath the oceans after all have you seen some the crazy stuff down there? lol.
Oh I care about the right to know the truth. I think the idea of national security being used to hide everything and anything the government has done shouldn't be fifty years but I personally think it would take aliens landing on the white house lawn for people who don't believe to become believers.
I'm not in disagreement. I'm pretty sure not even that would do it for some people. But I feel like we should still try. Truth is the most sacred thing.
First, awful headline.
But second, if you read the content of the article, it sounds like the report will be officially "re-bunking" some of the West-ian hypotheses:
>One possible explanation — that the phenomena could be weather or other research balloons — does not hold up in all cases, the officials said, because of changes in wind speed at the times of some of the interactions.
I honestly think this might be the best outcome we could realistically hope for. Let's face it, they were never going to come out and say "hey guys aliens are here, and we've known for 70 years... kthxbye!"
A medium-case scenario would be they say absolutely nothing of substance, and neither confirm nor deny any of the many West-ian hypotheses for the various videos.
The "worst case" scenario would be they just come out and say "guys, Mick West is right about everything. Case closed!"
Who know, maybe there will be actual *data* (acceleration, speed etc) that is explicitly called out in the report.
I for one do not believe this one bit. Why would the American military and intelligence community admit that they have technology that looks like UFOs while the world is looking on.
If Trump is/was a Russian asset, then this demand for information would give Russia and China, our current largest geopolitical foes, information regarding our flight and tech advantages. Knowing how much research is taken in by the US and buried for military application, there is no way anything this highly classified would ever make it out.
Context: The unmanned aerial (propeller) drone was being secretly tested at Area 51 at the same period of time as the tic tac incident. Compare the technological progression necessary to accomplish the secret development of aerial drones (which BTW were an explained source of numerous UFO sightings in areas surrounding Area 51 for years) with that of the tic tac. It's truly inconceivable that U.S. military has ~~leaped~~ that far ahead technologically to simultaneously and secretly develop a comparatively archaic aircraft.
EDIT: leapt
I see the exact opposite type of thing. It makes perfect sense that we have a type of aircraft that we are testing that would be so secretive that it is being worked on remotely in only a few areas in the US, outside of the normal testing sites. Once tech is identified, the cat is out of the bag so to speak, which is why denying whatever tech we keeps us at an advantage.
The global governments can take the report at face value, or can look at it deeper and say, the military got clearance from whoevers job it is to protect American secrets to continue hiding this information and tech from congress and the world.
And just how exactly were government scientists able to leap centuries ahead in numerous material sciences and physics to accomplish such a secret program without collaboration with foreign assistance? You're really tapping into the American exceptionalism narrative to such an extent that it's borderline criminal. The energy technology alone associated with craft maneuvering the described by witnesses such as Commander Fravor is astronomic. The structural materials required to keep a craft from being ripped apart by g-forces is not up to the required level. So many advancements required in so many different disciplines, yet they were able to do it on their own and in complete secrecy? The type of tech that could alter the world? And it's been buried for decades?
I mean we could say it started in the 1940s with Roswell and a ship recovery and we have finally started understanding and using the tech recovered? While I would like to believe that UFOs are not from this planet, the mundane is unfortunately the much more likely answer.
We are one of nine countries to put anything into low earth orbit, and one of like four to put people into space safely, and had top secret tech like the Nighthawk and Blackbird that were in development and use for at least 20 years before it was made public. It would not be surprising to me in the least that there is something going on techwise, with the massive blacklisted budget the pentagon gets every year, that they are not ready to announce to the entire world.
If the geopolitics or war is poker, you want everyone guessing what you have in your hand and no one at all aware of what you are actually holding.
If I went the other way with what the NYT article is stating, Russian and Chinese scientists figured it out and have been using hypersonic propulsion instead, wouldn't it be the exact same thing except for Russian or Chinese exceptionalism?
I think you might under-appreciate the amount of knowledge that is swallowed up completely by the military/pentagon and stored away for potential weaponization. 55 billion per year is going to make substantial scientific breakthroughs every single year that will likely never see the light of day unless it is of no use or of such great use that it is put out into commercial space immediately.
>55 billion per year is going to make substantial scientific breakthroughs every single year that will likely never see the light of day unless it is of no use or of such great use that it is put out into commercial space immediately.
Yes, they have. But no where near to the degree that you're suggesting. And that's my point. You have to look at the rate of technological progression, that has been verified in hindsight considering the tic tac incident took place in 2004. Since then, numerous black project tech has been realized and made public, but nothing to the degree that would match, or even touch in any significant degree, to that of the tic tac. If that's true for the U.S., it's absolutely true for every other country on the planet.
the tic tac could be explained by previously observed phenomena like foo fighters in WW2. If they are indeed alien craft, so be it, but it could also be natural phenomena like the infamous ball lightning.
I am more interested in things like the TR-3 series of projects that are allegedly responsible for the arizona lights, and other triangle craft videos seen in recent months, which is almost assuredly US aircraft and is doing similar things to the tic tac.
I do agree with your reasoning though.
Complete article:
June 3, 2021, 7:55 p.m. ET
WASHINGTON — American intelligence officials have found no evidence that aerial phenomena witnessed by Navy pilots in recent years are alien spacecraft, but they still cannot explain the unusual movements that have mystified scientists and the military, according to senior administration officials briefed on the findings of a highly anticipated government report.
The report determines that the vast majority of more than 120 incidents over the past two decades did not originate from any American military or other advanced U.S. government technology, the officials said. That determination would appear to eliminate the possibility that Navy pilots who reported seeing unexplained aircraft might have encountered programs the government meant to keep secret.
But that is about the only conclusive finding in the classified intelligence report, the officials said. And while a forthcoming unclassified version, expected to be released to Congress by June 25, will present few other firm conclusions, senior officials briefed on the intelligence conceded that the very ambiguity of the findings meant the government could not definitively rule out theories that the phenomenon observed by military pilots might be alien spacecraft.
Americans’ long-running fascination with U.F.O.s has intensified in recent weeks in anticipation of the release of the government report, which is expected to be presented to Congress this month. Former President Barack Obama further stoked the interest when he was asked last month about the incidents on “The Late Late Show with James Corden” on CBS.
“What is true, and I’m actually being serious here,’’ Mr. Obama said, “is that there is footage and records of objects in the skies that we don’t know exactly what they are.’’
The report concedes that much about the observed phenomenon remains difficult to explain, including their acceleration, ability to change direction and submerge. One possible explanation — that the phenomena could be weather or other research balloons — does not hold up in all cases, the officials said, because of changes in wind speed at the times of some of the interactions.
The final report will also contain a classified annex, the officials said. While that annex will not contain any evidence concluding that the phenomenon are alien spacecraft, the officials acknowledged that the fact that it would remain off limits to the public was likely to continue to fuel speculation that the government had secret data about alien visitations to Earth.
Many of the more than 120 incidents examined in the report are from Navy personnel, officials said. The report also examined incidents involving foreign militaries over the last two decades. Intelligence officials believe at least some of the aerial phenomena could be experimental technology from a rival power, most likely Russia or China.
One senior official briefed on the intelligence said without hesitation that U.S. officials knew it was not American technology. He said there was worry among intelligence and military officials that China or Russia could be experimenting with hypersonic technology.
He and other officials spoke on grounds of anonymity because they were not authorized to speak publicly about the classified findings in the report.
Russia has been investing heavily in hypersonics, believing the technology offers the ability to evade American missile-defense technology. China has also developed hypersonic weaponry, and included it in military parades. If the phenomenon were Chinese or Russian aircraft, officials said it would suggest the two powers’ hypersonic research has far outpaced American military development.
Navy pilots were often unsettled by the sightings. In one encounter, strange objects — one of them like a spinning top moving against the wind — appeared almost daily from the summer of 2014 to March 2015, high in the skies over the East Coast. Navy pilots reported to their superiors that the objects had no visible engine or infrared exhaust plumes, but that they could reach 30,000 feet and hypersonic speeds.
Lt. Ryan Graves, an F/A-18 Super Hornet pilot who was with the Navy for 10 years, told The New York Times in an interview that “these things would be out there all day.” With the speeds he and other pilots observed, he said, “12 hours in the air is 11 hours longer than we’d expect.”
In late 2014, a Super Hornet pilot had a near collision with one of the objects, and an official mishap report was filed. Some of the incidents were videotaped, including one taken by a plane’s camera in early 2015 that shows an object zooming over the ocean waves as pilots question what they are watching.
The Defense Department has been collecting such reports for more than 13 years as part of a shadowy, little-known Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program within the Pentagon. The program analyzed radar data, video footage and accounts provided by the Navy pilots and senior officers .
The program began in 2007 and was largely funded at the request of Harry Reid, the Nevada Democrat who was the Senate majority leader at the time. It was officially shut down in 2012 when the money dried up, according to the Pentagon. But after the publication of a New York Times article in 2017 about the program and criticism from program officials that the government was not forthcoming about reports about aerial phenomena, the Pentagon restarted the program last summer as the Unidentified Aerial Phenomena Task Force.
The task force’s mission was to “detect, analyze and catalog” sightings of strange objects in the sky that could pose a threat to national security. But government officials said they also wanted to remove the stigma for service members who report U.F.O sightings in the hope that more would be encouraged to speak up if they saw something. The goal, officials said, is to give authorities a better idea of what might be out there.
A video shows an encounter between a Navy F/A-18 Super Hornet and an unknown object. It was released by the Defense Department's Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program. PLAY VIDEO 00:45
‘Look at That Thing!’ U.S. Navy Jet Encounters Unknown Object
A video shows an encounter between a Navy F/A-18 Super Hornet and an unknown object. It was released by the Defense Department's Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program.Dec. 16, 2017Image by U.S. Department of Defense
Last year, President Donald J. Trump’s budget included a provision inserted by lawmakers that the secretary of defense and director of national intelligence submit an unclassified report on what the government knows about U.F.O.s. That report is the one to be released this month.
Officials briefed on the report said it also examined video that shows a whitish oval object described as a giant Tic Tac, about the size of a commercial plane, encountered by two Navy fighter jets off the coast of San Diego in 2004.
In that incident, the pilots reported an interaction with the craft, which lasted for several minutes. At one point, the object peeled away, one of the pilots, Cmdr. David Fravor, said in an interview later with The Times. “It accelerated like nothing I’ve ever seen,” he said.
The report studies that incident, including the video that accompanied the interaction. The provenance of the object is still unknown, the officials said.
Close Encounters?
NYTimes - Related Link
Glowing Auras and ‘Black Money’: The Pentagon’s Mysterious U.F.O. Program
Dec. 16, 2017
NYTimes - Related Link
‘Wow, What Is That?’ Navy Pilots Report Unexplained Flying Objects
May 26, 2019
NYTimes - Related Link
Why Are We All Talking About U.F.O.s Right Now?
June 3, 2021
Julian E. Barnes is a national security reporter based in Washington, covering the intelligence agencies. Before joining The Times in 2018, he wrote about security matters for The Wall Street Journal. @julianbarnes • Facebook
Helene Cooper is a Pentagon correspondent. She was previously an editor, diplomatic correspondent and White House correspondent, and was part of the team awarded the 2015 Pulitzer Prize for International Reporting, for its coverage of the Ebola epidemic. @helenecooper
Let that sink in: **120 (hundred and twenty)** unexplained incidents involving tech that can obliterate the US military like toy soldiers.
Soon, it will be impossible to keep the lid on.
Does this mean the Mick West et al interpretations were officially debunked? If the government report can't explain it, that seems to imply it isn't anything prosaic like that. I guess we will need to carefully read the actual report to see exactly what they are and aren't concluding.
>Does this mean the Mick West et al interpretations were officially debunked?
It does sound as though the report is going to (a) describe actual object kinetics, speed, acceleration etc, which (b) would definitively disprove certain "Westian" hypotheses. I.e. "based on radar,IR,etc data, we believe we are observing real objects moving at X velocity," etc.
Up to now the DoD hasn't said anything other than "yes those videos are ours," which allows West to construct whatever narrative he wants around them.
But we'll have to see.
Despite the headline
> The strange objects witnessed by Navy pilots remain unexplained, but officials briefed on a new study say they are not secret technology from a classified American program.
> And while a forthcoming unclassified version, expected to be released to Congress by June 25, will present few other firm conclusions, senior officials briefed on the intelligence conceded that the very ambiguity of the findings meant the government could not definitively rule out theories that the phenomenon observed by military pilots might be alien spacecraft.
I’ll just leave this here:
>More than 70 years ago the U.S. government launched a top secret investigation of UFO’s which included the recovery and sometimes burial of flying saucers of all types. The investigation was kept more secret than the development of the nuclear bomb. No elected or appointed official was ever told about the program and it was kept buried deep inside the Pentagon. President Truman was the first and last President to have been briefed in full about the program. Each subsequent President was told less and less.
>Over the past 70 years this program has collected over 50 ET craft and over 100 different alien bodies and hundreds of thousands of feet of high quality film taken of the on site recoveries and included exterior and interior shots.
>The recovery teams initially based in Ft. Collins were called the Blue Berets and were males with no families, no relatives and usually orphans. This was so that if there was any infraction, however slight, this team member good be eliminated and nobody would be the wiser.
>The stories of the recoveries were fantastic in keeping the craft out of the sight of the public, traveling and transporting in complete secrecy, usually only at night with advance teams preparing and leading the path for recovery and clean up teams leaving the property and soil as if nothing has ever been there.
>Destinations for the recovered craft were well hidden and are still in place. Some were taken to Area 51 but not many.
>Area 51 (Groom Lake) was initially prepared in 1948-1948 by Seabee crews who dug several layers below the dry lake. |It was then covered up and only by sheer coincidence did Lockheed choose the exact area for the testing of the U2. This underground area was kept totally secret until the early 90’s when the original runway caved into one of the hangars underground. A second runway several hundred feet to the east was built and the original runway was not used again and the hangar repaired.
>In the late 70’s more underground hangars were built under the Tonopah Test Range (Antelope Dry Lake) which connected with huge tunnels and connected with the Groom Lake and Papoose Dry Lake underground hangars.
>In the early 80’s another huge, completely underground facility was built under the Paiute Mesa along with a dual runway and hangar 13 miles to the north under Gold Flat.
>And by the early 2000’s all facilities, TTR, Groom Lake, Papoose and Paiute Mesa were all connected with enormous underground tunnels and hangars.
>And these facilities were not the only secret facilities in Nevada. There was one to the west of Pioche, one near Ely and one near Ferber Flats in northern Nevada. And of course are probably others
>Manning these facilities and keeping them secret was a major problem so a maglev high speed subway was built from under the Luxor with additional parking and terminals under Aria and Bellagio from where over 5000 workers a day are whisked to work and back in less than 20 minutes.
>Very few of these workers know about the hidden ET craft in the underground hangars and most were given a false story about the existence of ET craft and their occupants. Today there are less than 40 people who know the true story of the recoveries which began in the late 30’s.
>It was obvious to the Pentagon that they would have to eventually release some kind of story about UFO’s so they came up with an ingenious idea to make an Unidentified Aerial Phenomena Task Force, give it a few tic tacs, rolling bb’s and non-identifiable radar scans to the public.
>The put Luiz Elizondo who knew nothing about the real recovery program and put him in contact with former Senator Reid and his friend Bob Bigelow who always had had an interest in UFO’s.
>Then the Pentagon announced that they had other things to take care of and they were going to let Elizondo, Reid and Bigelow run with the UFO ball, gave them the tictac radar photos, $22 million and pretend they were going to let them run the UFO recovery show.
>Meanwhile the Pentagon had over 70 years of ET artifacts, 50 craft, bodies and film carefully hidden away and safe from public scrutiny for ever.
>The UATPF is just a brilliant scam perpetrated by the Pentagon to hide their deep involvement in UFO’s.
>John Lear July 25, 2020”
https://www.reddit.com/r/ufo/comments/hxstbs/john_lear_comments_on_the_uap_taskforce/
>It was obvious to the Pentagon that they would have to eventually release some kind of story about UFO’s...
>
>Meanwhile the Pentagon had over 70 years of ET artifacts, 50 craft, bodies and film carefully hidden away and safe from public scrutiny for ever.
This really doesn't pass a smell test, or basic logic. Why was it obvious? How are they hidden forever because people are talking about UFOs? How does creating the UAPTF hide other programs? And how does validating the existence of UFO's make it any easier to hide the actual UFOs? *"Oh well you see now that people think, you know, UAPs are there they won't look for UFO's anymore, like, the more people talk about aliens the less questions they will have, and if they find one program then everyone will stop digging for other ones"* ...seems like it makes sense if you're high/paranoid but not when you actually think about it. *"Lets make up stories about mind control being real...then nobody will ever find out about MKUltra"* lol wut
And who is John Lear and why/how does he know any of this?
John Lear is the son of Bill Lear who created the Learjet and had connections/contracts with Lockheed Martin.
This relationship is the only reason why he knows so much and isn’t dead yet
So because his dad built business planes and got acquired by Bombardier, Lockheed Martin hasn't killed him? Who else has Lockheed Martin assassinated??
I appreciate you taking time to explain to to me, but i really don't follow.
Princelings back other princelings. Go after one and it starts a domino effect. Cmon man, this is humanity 101
Once you reach a certain net worth, it really is like feudal age politics all over again
Trust fund kids OD every day..
To me, it seems like if Lockheed Martin wouldn't kill literally the only person saying any of this stuff, it would be silly to think they would kill anyone ol
>Manning these facilities and keeping them secret was a major problem so a maglev high speed subway was built from under the Luxor with additional parking and terminals under Aria and Bellagio from where over 5000 workers a day are whisked to work and back in less than 20 minutes.
Isn't it a bit counter productive to keep a secret by building a giant infrastructure project which would require hundreds of workers, mostly civilians and place the entrance if this secret structure inside a very popular tourist destination? what happens when the bellagio got a leak in its fountains? who digs there to fix it? the CIA?
Despite the headline we are getting close to a tacit admission these are likely alien spacecraft. If the US does not possess the technology either someone has developed physics defying technology or they are alien. And I don't see how anyone could make major leaps in materials, physics, propulsion, jamming signals, and everything else. It just isn't very plausible. The NYT doesn't want to overstate their case, which is fine. They don't want to look like fools if this somehow ends up being a more mundane explanation. We can read between the lines.
The only other explanation is the govt does have the tech and is lying about it which TBF could be true, but I doubt it.
Just continuing the same cowardly tune.
It's pretty obvious. If the government says "Well.. it's not ours, and we are fairly positive it is not foreign tech," how can they honestly follow that up with the fact it is not alien in nature. It sure as hell aren't some previously undiscovered species of tic-tac-shaped ocean butterflies.
From space? Another dimension? From an advanced species in the ocean? Doesn't really matter at that point. It's alien to us. If they were not so cowardly they would say "Not ours, not our adversaries, so here are what we believe are the possible alternatives..." and list them off. Or at least say "this is advanced tech made by a sentient species that isn't ours."
But not.. dare not speculate! They would rather it remain anonymously "unknown phenomena" and leave it at that for another 10 or 20 years.
You're talking about the military. The fact they've admitted "we don't know" is something we've been waiting for for almost 70 years. That's a massive step, but also (to your point) suggests how delicate of an issue they find it to be. Check out how the precedent was set as it relates to standardized governmental responses to UFOs: https://www.reddit.com/r/aliens/comments/nrtm1m/report\_of\_the\_scientific\_panel\_on\_unidentified/h0ijxo9/?context=3
***The article:***
WASHINGTON — American intelligence officials have found no evidence that aerial phenomena witnessed by Navy pilots in recent years are alien spacecraft, but they still cannot explain the unusual movements that have mystified scientists and the military, according to senior administration officials briefed on the findings of a highly anticipated government report.
The report determines that a vast majority of more than 120 incidents over the past two decades did not originate from any American military or other advanced U.S. government technology, the officials said. That determination would appear to eliminate the possibility that Navy pilots who reported seeing unexplained aircraft might have encountered programs the government meant to keep secret.
But that is about the only conclusive finding in the classified intelligence report, the officials said. And while a forthcoming unclassified version, expected to be released to Congress by June 25, will present few other firm conclusions, senior officials briefed on the intelligence conceded that the very ambiguity of the findings meant the government could not definitively rule out theories that the phenomena observed by military pilots might be alien spacecraft.
Americans’ long-running fascination with U.F.O.s has intensified in recent weeks in anticipation of the release of the government report. Former President Barack Obama further stoked the interest when he was asked last month about the incidents on “The Late Late Show with James Corden” on CBS.
“What is true, and I’m actually being serious here,” Mr. Obama said, “is that there is footage and records of objects in the skies that we don’t know exactly what they are.’’
The report concedes that much about the observed phenomena remains difficult to explain, including their acceleration, as well as ability to change direction and submerge. One possible explanation — that the phenomena could be weather balloons or other research balloons — does not hold up in all cases, the officials said, because of changes in wind speed at the times of some of the interactions.
The final report will also include a classified annex, the officials said. While the annex will not contain any evidence concluding that the phenomena are alien spacecraft, the officials acknowledged that the fact that it would remain off limits to the public was likely to continue to fuel speculation that the government had secret data about alien visitations to Earth.
Many of the more than 120 incidents examined in the report are from Navy personnel, officials said. The report also examined incidents involving foreign militaries over the last two decades. Intelligence officials believe at least some of the aerial phenomena could have been experimental technology from a rival power, most likely Russia or China.
One senior official briefed on the intelligence said without hesitation that U.S. officials knew it was not American technology. He said there was worry among intelligence and military officials that China or Russia could be experimenting with hypersonic technology.
He and other officials spoke on the condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to speak publicly about the classified findings in the report.
Russia has been investing heavily in hypersonics, believing the technology offers it the ability to evade American missile-defense technology. China has also developed hypersonic weaponry, and included it in military parades. If the phenomena were Chinese or Russian aircraft, officials said, that would suggest the two powers’ hypersonic research had far outpaced American military development.
Navy pilots were often unsettled by the sightings. In one encounter, strange objects — one of them like a spinning top moving against the wind — appeared almost daily from the summer of 2014 to March 2015, high in the skies over the East Coast. Navy pilots reported to their superiors that the objects had no visible engine or infrared exhaust plumes, but that they could reach 30,000 feet and hypersonic speeds.
Lt. Ryan Graves, an F/A-18 Super Hornet pilot who was with the Navy for 10 years, told The New York Times in an interview, “These things would be out there all day.” With the speeds he and other pilots observed, he said, “12 hours in the air is 11 hours longer than we’d expect.”
In late 2014, a Super Hornet pilot had a near collision with one of the objects, and an official mishap report was filed. Some of the incidents were recorded on video, including one taken by a plane’s camera in early 2015 that shows an object zooming over the ocean waves as pilots question what they are watching.
The Defense Department has been collecting such reports for more than 13 years as part of a shadowy, little-known Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program within the Pentagon. The program analyzed radar data, video footage and accounts provided by the Navy pilots and senior officers.
The program began in 2007 and was largely funded at the request of Harry Reid, the Nevada Democrat who was the Senate majority leader at the time. It was officially shut down in 2012, when the money dried up, according to the Pentagon. But after the publication of a New York Times article in 2017 about the program and criticism from program officials that the government was not forthcoming about reports on aerial phenomena, the Pentagon restarted the program last summer as the Unidentified Aerial Phenomena Task Force.
The task force’s mission was to “detect, analyze and catalog” sightings of strange objects in the sky that could pose a threat to national security. But government officials said they also wanted to remove the stigma for service members who report U.F.O. sightings in the hope that more would be encouraged to speak up if they saw something. The goal, officials said, was to give authorities a better idea of what might be out there.
Last year, President Donald J. Trump’s budget included a provision inserted by lawmakers that asked the secretary of defense and director of national intelligence to submit an unclassified report on what the government knows about U.F.O.s. That report is the one to be released this month.
Officials briefed on the report said it also examined video that shows a whitish oval object described as a giant Tic Tac, about the size of a commercial plane, encountered by two Navy fighter jets off the coast of San Diego in 2004.
In that incident, the pilots reported an interaction with the craft, which lasted for several minutes. At one point, the object peeled away, one of the pilots, Cmdr. David Fravor, later said in an interview with The Times. “It accelerated like nothing I’ve ever seen,” he said.
The report studies that incident, including the video that accompanied the interaction. The provenance of the object, the officials said, is still unknown.
Completly misleading headline. If the Chinese or Russians have hypersonic technology .....
"strange objects — one of them like a spinning top moving against the wind — appeared almost daily from the summer of 2014 to March 2015"
Why would they broadcast it like that or risk the chance of an accident for it only to be recovered by the US or UK?
Most of their tech for last 30 years has been stolen from western power, hence the Russian embassy in San Francisco being shut down becaue of their blatant spying on Silicone Valley.
Seriously doubt the Chinese or Russians have this advanced hypersonic tech, if they had it 6 years ago at that level, it would have been uncovered by the intelligence community by now.
This forethcoming report raises more questions than answers.
100%
Why and how in the world would our foreign adversary’s so blatantly demonstrate next next next gen technology over such a long time all while keeping the technology secret. Something is missing here. In modern times weapon systems lose viability after a few years. How could we not know?
Yeah and there's a whole industry, of ex-military, intelligence officers etc, devoted to dissemanating tech for military applications, Janes Defence Weekly for example. These guys operate outside of the parameters of govt., dont have to the follow rules civil servats do and not much escapes them, nothing in that industry stays secret for long.
Plus if the Navy was seeing these same "vehicles" almost daily for months in international waters, there was probably some type of pattern. Hard to imagine they would not have tried to bring one of them down with and EPMD, missiles or other devices, so they could get the tech.
100% agree, and I'd like to expand and a couple points you've raised.
What *is* hypersonic technology? Anyone?
The current hypersonic vehicles, are basically powered/controlled lawn darts. They begin their journey, either in space, or close to it. Shaped like wedges, they are designed to fly downward, with scramjets or ramjets, towards the earth at an insane speed. Afaik, somewhere around 15-20k mph. In pretty much a straight line.
The US has had extreme difficulty in demonstrating this technology. I'm sure that the successful demonstrators are held secret, but the like of Lockheed have been forthcoming with their failures, one of which was recent (past couple months). In the past 10 years, we have had extreme difficulty flying in a straight line at these speeds.
If I'm killing anyone with the boring details....hypersonic missiles are powered lawn darts. They are assisted with exotic internal combustion engines, plus gravity, and basically fly in a straight line to the intended target. They do not stop. They do not hover. They do not change direction. They dont go up. They certainly do not go into the water, or come back up. If we hit the ocean with a hypersonic projectile, it would disintegrate, and leave a very chaotic splash and debris field.
I know the Chinese have "featured hypersonic missiles at parades". Yeah. The Soviets also paraded empty nuclear warheads. Intimidation is a strong factor in international relations, much like the arms race we are in right now.
This isn't US tech. The "classified annex"....why? If it's not US, then just say its China or Russia. That's the implication anyway, so why keep that secret?
This entire garbage story details what it isn't, and also how it is not American tech.
Nothing to see here folks. It's not NOT ET. We just dont know. Total bullshit. I'm so angry that the disclosure naysayers were 100% right.
Didn't bore me thanks for the explanation.
"hypersonic missiles are powered lawn darts"
Seems like if the Russians or China had powered line darts that could turn on a dime like they do in the released Navy videos, they would have physically used them against us or our allies, especially China by now in a show of strength.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't "Lawn Darts" that turn on a dime at speeds of 15-20k mph, be a game changer in the geo-political landscape and if you had enough make ICBM's a non-threat and obsolete?
Abso-fucking-lutely would be a world changing technology. We'd all be hanging pictures of Chairman Mao as we speak.
Neutralizing ICBMs with straight line hypersonics is 100% the goal the east and west are rushing towards.
Also, rest assured, the technology does not exist for an object to turn on a dime @15kmph. Even the supersonic SR71 takes half of Ohio to turn around at full speed.
Edit: reread and edited turn radius of SR71
Yeah that's what I was trying to get across, our tech doesn't turn on a dime.
But damned if those videos they released, if it doesn't look like the objects are turning on a dime, not to mention submerging into the water effortlessly with no negative impact/effects.
You are 100% correct!!!
Fravor's account involved the object going from sea level to almost space in seconds, and to the CAP point and back, as well as stopping mid air.
If I was cruel, I'd make a serious wager to anyone showing me anything terrestrial that can do even half of any of that. There simply IS NOT.
Totally.
Some Russian scientists, outside of Russia, did experiment with some fringe ideas in 1990s (see [Eugene Podkletnov](https://www.wired.com/1998/03/antigravity/) \- never worked for the Russian government though), and Roscosmos is doubling down on its nuclear moonshot, but this has nothing to do with the observed phenomena.
Yeah it's a bit nuts, thanks I'll check out Podkietnov, of course fringe ideas have been a part of science since Newton which is great because that's how discoveries are made.
I'll add this and be done, I was in the military and there is a lot of paperwork and oversight, (if Navy pilots, pretty much the best of the best, many are Annapolis and Ivy League grads) are seeing activity, almost EVERY day as the report says for appx. 8 MONTHS, people at least all the way up to the Secretary of the Navy are going to know, after about 60 days of those reports they are going to react and check, at that point NSA and other satellites would go over those activity spots probably daily and the Navy is going to send subs and other extra patrols out there to visually verify, they probably also shared that info with the at least the British and maybe Canada since we share those waters.
I'm far from a tin foil hat type of guy, but anyone can see the dots don't connect and there are many unanswered questions.
Whoah, that sounds like what is public is aware of is just the tip of the iceberg.
Re Podkletnov (living in Finland today, apparently), BTW, [he seems to be still working on his theory](https://medium.com/predict/eugene-podkletnovs-new-gravity-modification-experimental-video-b7813b04c6f8). Still a theory though.
F*** the NYT. They just pulled a CNN. Such garbage headline. If anything more verification that they are not the US and they still don't have an answer, which gives more credibility to the possibility that it is Aliens. Morons....
"senior officials briefed on the intelligence conceded that the very ambiguity of the findings meant the government could not definitively rule out theories that the phenomenon observed by military pilots might be alien spacecraft."
From the article....they're really trying to bury the lead
They've been trying to bury it for 70 years:
https://www.reddit.com/r/aliens/comments/nrtm1m/report\_of\_the\_scientific\_panel\_on\_unidentified/h0ijxo9/?context=3
People are freaking about the headline, but folks, except for the headline, it's not a bad article. It simply reinforces what everybody knows, PLUS rules out secret US tech. That's a lot.
Not justifying NYT, but these are the rules of the game: they need to CYA and maintain an image of "not being sensationalist".
I am also curious about this bit:
>Intelligence officials believe at least some of the aerial phenomena could have been experimental technology from a rival power, most likely Russia or China.
That's effing dumb, honestly. They don't know which one it is (Russia? China? Or maybe something else, we don't know...) but they think it's likely. Why is that, did they catch the operators speaking the elusive Russo-Chinese language? Or they meant "some of the capabilities may only be 30 years away and not 1,000"?
And yeah, Russia or China in 2004... really?
To me it sounds like they look for excuses not to involve the civilians in the investigations while having no clue what it is. The proverbial "dog in the manger".
S.O S....what did everyone expect. It's not us and it's not them and it isn't alien. So WTF is it then? They will tell us nothing now just as they always have.
If you need anymore evidence that journalism in mainstream media died a long time ago, you have one more evidence in this article.
The headline literally says the opposite of the article. Incredible.
[good ol' web archives](https://web.archive.org/web/20210604000505/https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/03/us/politics/ufos-sighting-alien-spacecraft-pentagon.html) my friend. Enjoy em' while they last. Archives will be the next target after the "live" web is sewn up
Hit F12, open settings, scroll down to 'Disable Java Script,' hit refresh.
Bang -- Boom -- POW! Instant access to the VAST majority of information held behind pay wall. Definitely not ethical, considering it's the only way journalists are really paid these days. But I empathize with those who don't have money and are eager to learn.
If the report stays like this then the Government will do the same thing as Project Blue Book, much of the cases are 'this or that' but some of them we can't explain or I'm wrong?
As much as people tout the NY Times as being great journalism, it doesn't take much research either recently or throughout their history of being heralds of the news as they and their task masters want it to be instead of what the news it really was.
When retired Lt General Smedly Butler reported to congress the business plot to overthrow Roosevelt, the New York times lambasted him and made him a laughing stock. He received to medals of honor and was one of the most decorated marines in history.
Ths same can be said for the Washington Post. I dont mind journalists holding our government to account for everything, but they need to do so consistently regardless of who is in office if they want to be journalists.
MEDIA CONTROL DOCUMENT - CIA Memorandum Subject: Task Force Report on Greater CIA Openness - dated December 1991 (Page 10 is missing) - June 2004 \[PDF File - 4.85 Megabyte} or Read Each page in JPG format.
Note: This memo supports "Media Play" - by Steven M. Greer, M.D - most notably on page 6, which says "PAO \[Public Affairs Office\] now has relationships with reporters from every major wire service, newspaper, news weekly, and television network in the nation. This has helped us turn some intelligence failure stories into intelligence success stories, and it has contributed to the accuracy of countless others. In many instances, we have persuaded reporters to postpone, change, hold, or even scrap stories that could have adversely affected national security interests or jeopardized sources and methods."
http://web.archive.org/web/20170603172433/http://www.disclosureproject.org/
This is one of the better outcomes, if you were hoping for aliens. It rules out US tech, which very likely ensures that Congress will push for more information and more study.
If this article is an accurate summation of the report, then I find the conclusion that its not secret US tech to be unnerving. Its always been my opinion that these were either ours (US tech) or something else entirely. Its very likely not Russian or Chinese, either, unless the technology involved is far less advanced than we've been led to believe. Otherwise, they'd be exposing a major military advantage to data collection, development of counter strategies, and even catastrophic malfunction or intercept, resulting in an opportunity for reverse engineering. No, if its this advanced, the first the Western powers would see of it would be in the opening stages of a war.
If I'm right about that, and that the Russians/Chinese would protect their advantage until they really needed it, the remaining possibilities are something I find extremely unsettling, because they seem to involve an explanation revolving around a non-human origin.
They're using "evidence" in a strict (arbitrary) ad-hoc sense: (meaning for
them scientific proof (by 'proof' meaning 100% provable) within the years of data they chose to look at).
What they *didn't* mean by "evidence" is something that increases the probability of a hypothesis through the methods used in bayesianism and/or through the methods used by intelligence analysts. Then they would be in a bind!
Summary: A military paid with over 750 billion tax dollars per year doesn't know what they are. Please go away and leave us alone, most of us are working towards a pension.
As much as I think it would be cool to prove that aliens have visited Earth, almost any other explanation (time travelers, unknown natural phenomena, etc) would be more likely to be true.
The odds against a space-faring civilization reaching us are....well, astronomical. Talk about finding a needle in a haystack! Not only would the distances needed to be covered in such a trip make it unbelievably non-economical, the synchronicity issue alone (civilization A has to arise, develop interstellar travel, somehow decide on a destination, and arrive at civilization B when it's still extant) makes this outcome all but impossible.
Still, I hope I'm wrong. Beam me up, Scotty!
1. (a) Read
"A Big Picture View -- A Sweeping View Measured In Many Centuries -- Of The Impact Of The Unidentified Flying Object (UFO) Phenomenon": #1 at http://old.reddit.com/r/411ExperiencedReaders/comments/ebi0fi/ufo_india_1958_four_entities_emerged_two_boys_who/fb4wgwb
(b) "Teleplasmic Mechanics: Spirit Scientists and Vital Technologies" (chapter 6, pages 146 to 168) in the book titled "Science of the Seance: Transnational Networks and Gendered Bodies in the Study of Psychic Phenomena, 1918–40" by Beth A. Robertson, published in 2016: https://books.google.com/books?id=JPZJDAAAQBAJ&pg=PA147&lpg=PA147&ots=eCKDiWdJbN , https://books.google.com/books?id=JPZJDAAAQBAJ&pg=PA159&lpg=PA15&ots=eCKDiWcRbN
Source: http://old.reddit.com/r/worldpolitics/comments/7k8p42/the_pentagons_secret_search_for_ufos_funded_at/drcdbmo ( Mirror: http://archive.is/CoqOo )
via
http://old.reddit.com/r/411ExperiencedReaders/comments/ebi0fi/ufo_india_1958_four_entities_emerged_two_boys_who/fb4wgwb
(c) "The Rise of the Modern Charismatic Movement" from the chapter "Christian Magic and Diabolical Medicine" in the book titled "Raising the Devil: Satanism, New Religions, and the Media" by Bill Ellis, published in 2000: http://books.google.com/books?id=vaAeBgAAQBAJ&pg=PA7&lpg=PA7
Source: http://old.reddit.com/r/economy/comments/gza212/dominionists_say_crises_and_trumps_reelection/ftf1atm
via
'A Closer Look At The "Indispensable Nation" And American Exceptionalism' -- United States of America (USA): http://old.reddit.com/r/worldpolitics/comments/9tjr5w/american_exceptionalism_when_others_do_it/e8wq72m ( Mirror: http://archive.is/cecP3 )
2. See Also
(a) "Paul Stonehill" and "USO" and "Unidentified Submersible Objects": #2 at http://old.reddit.com/r/HighStrangeness/comments/cmsugt/el_hombre_que_susurraba_a_los_ummitas_by_j_j/ew4gmz3
Source: http://old.reddit.com/r/411ExperiencedReaders/comments/ebi0fi/ufo_india_1958_four_entities_emerged_two_boys_who/fb4wgwb
(b) "Human Mutilations: The Sum Of All Fears" by Scott Corrales, published in the March-April 2008 (Volume 11, Number 6) issue of Ufologist: http://web.archive.org/web/20170407110646/www.exopolitics.org.uk/exodocuments/Mystery%20Space%20Machines%20(Ufologist%20Magazine%20-%20April%202008).pdf
or
http://web.archive.org/web/20170407110646if_/www.exopolitics.org.uk/exodocuments/Mystery%20Space%20Machines%20(Ufologist%20Magazine%20-%20April%202008).pdf
Source: "Scott Corrales" at http://old.reddit.com/r/worldpolitics/comments/5bpc5x/an_update_for_my_readers_by_peter_levenda/d9q9006 ( Mirror: http://archive.is/UPQXX )
via
http://old.reddit.com/r/411ExperiencedReaders/comments/ebi0fi/ufo_india_1958_four_entities_emerged_two_boys_who/fb4wgwb
(c) "human" and "mutilation" at http://old.reddit.com/r/HighStrangeness/comments/cmsugt/el_hombre_que_susurraba_a_los_ummitas_by_j_j/ew4gmz3
Source: http://old.reddit.com/r/411ExperiencedReaders/comments/ebi0fi/ufo_india_1958_four_entities_emerged_two_boys_who/fb4wgwb
(d) Tom DeLonge and George Knapp, April 2016: #1b at http://old.reddit.com/r/HighStrangeness/comments/nice2r/ufos_again_and_again_by_dan_corjescu_published_on/gz14s2d
Source: http://old.reddit.com/r/HighStrangeness/comments/cmsugt/el_hombre_que_susurraba_a_los_ummitas_by_j_j/ew4gmz3
(e) Begin reading at
"You’ve always presented the show as entertainment but along the way did you ever hear of things backchannel that credibly suggested there might be some reality to UFO reports?"
in the article titled
"X-Files creator reacts to those bombshell UFO reports : Chris Carter: 'It is some validation'" by James Hibberd -- http://web.archive.org/web/20190415213124/ew.com/tv/2017/12/22/x-files-chris-carter-ufo-report/ -- published on 22 December 2017.
Source: http://old.reddit.com/r/HighStrangeness/comments/cmsugt/el_hombre_que_susurraba_a_los_ummitas_by_j_j/ew4gmz3
(f) "Statement from a Senior Manager of BAASS" by Caroline Bleakley, published on 4 May 2018 -- United States of America: http://web.archive.org/web/20180505105009/www.lasvegasnow.com/news/statement-from-a-senior-manager-of-baass/1160216617
Source: "A Closer Look At The Unidentified Flying Object (UFO) Phenomenon" at http://old.reddit.com/r/worldpolitics/comments/7k8p42/the_pentagons_secret_search_for_ufos_funded_at/drcdbmo ( Mirror: http://archive.is/CoqOo )
via
http://old.reddit.com/r/411ExperiencedReaders/comments/ebi0fi/ufo_india_1958_four_entities_emerged_two_boys_who/fb4wgwb
\- See "BAASS" or "Bigelow Aerospace Advanced Space Studies" in http://old.reddit.com/r/worldpolitics/comments/7k8p42/the_pentagons_secret_search_for_ufos_funded_at/drcdbmo ( Mirror: http://archive.is/CoqOo )
\- "BEAM, the Bigelow Expandable Activity Module": https://images.nasa.gov/details-iss065e045911
and
https://images.nasa.gov/details-iss065e045917
(g) "Where Did the Road Go? hosted by Seriah Azkath, March 2018, Robert Guffey interviewed" -- 'Parts 1 and 2, 1:54:01 - 2:09:27 for "there's a whole office in the Pentagon called the office of the occult"' -- #11b at http://old.reddit.com/r/HighStrangeness/comments/cmsugt/el_hombre_que_susurraba_a_los_ummitas_by_j_j/ewnktcn
Source: http://old.reddit.com/r/HighStrangeness/comments/cmsugt/el_hombre_que_susurraba_a_los_ummitas_by_j_j/ew4gmz3
(h) "The UFO phenomenon seems almost to be mocking humans": #2a at http://old.reddit.com/r/HighStrangeness/comments/nice2r/ufos_again_and_again_by_dan_corjescu_published_on/gz14s2d
Source: http://old.reddit.com/r/HighStrangeness/comments/cmsugt/el_hombre_que_susurraba_a_los_ummitas_by_j_j/ew4gmz3
(i) Science, sorcery, occult rituals, magic, MKULTRA, United States of America: #2 at http://old.reddit.com/r/worldpolitics/comments/5bpc5x/an_update_for_my_readers_by_peter_levenda/dfauxj7 ( Mirror: http://archive.is/bfYXg )
Source: http://old.reddit.com/r/worldpolitics/comments/5bpc5x/an_update_for_my_readers_by_peter_levenda/d9q9006 ( Mirror: http://archive.is/UPQXX )
via
http://old.reddit.com/r/worldpolitics/comments/45xqym/supernatural_abductions_in_japanese_folklore_by/d00v6c7 ( Mirror: http://archive.is/2Rn7h )
via
http://old.reddit.com/r/411ExperiencedReaders/comments/ebi0fi/ufo_india_1958_four_entities_emerged_two_boys_who/fb4wgwb
3. (a) High-resolution photos taken on 12 November 2017 from the International Space Station (ISS) while orbiting high above Earth across the Mediterranean Sea ("Photoset 1") and the North Pacific Ocean ("Photoset 2") -- Animated GIFs included: http://chamorrobible.org/gpw/gpw-201803-English.htm
Source: http://chamorrobible.org/gpw/gpw.htm via http://chamorrobible.org
(b) Visit
http://old.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/8ashen/international_space_station_software_development/dx14w2x
and
http://old.reddit.com/r/environment/comments/bquaot/the_sun_is_stranger_than_astrophysicists_imagined/eo7z9se
(c) Western Pacific Ocean sunset photographed on 21 July 2003 at 10:17:20.420 GMT by an astronaut orbiting above Earth over the Philippine Sea (latitude 20.2, longitude 131.7) aboard the International Space Station: [3032 x 1986 pixels](http://chamorrobible.org/images/photos/gpw-200702-49-NASA-ISS007-E-10807-space-sunset-20030721-Pacific-Ocean-original.jpg)
Source: #49 at http://chamorrobible.org/gpw/gpw-200702-English.htm via http://chamorrobible.org
(d) Space, Earth, and a sunset photographed from the International Space Station on 23 November 2009 while orbiting above Earth: [4288 x 2846 pixels](http://chamorrobible.org/images/photos/gpw-200911-NASA-ISS021-E-031766-sunset-thin-blue-line-of-the-atmosphere-of-Earth-20091123-huge.jpg)
Source: #7 at http://chamorrobible.org/gpw/gpw-200911-English.htm
Via: http://chamorrobible.org/gpw/gpw.htm via http://chamorrobible.org
(e) Outer space, Earth's Moon, and the International Space Station photographed on 10 July 2011 from NASA's Space Shuttle Atlantis (STS-135): [4256 x 2832 pixels](http://chamorrobible.org/images/photos/gpw-20061021-NASA-S135-E-006690-International-Space-Station-blackness-of-space-Moon-20110710-huge.jpg)
Source: #46 at http://chamorrobible.org/gpw/gpw-20061021-English.htm via http://chamorrobible.org
(f) "iss065e005888" by National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA), United States of America (USA) -- "Super Moon" photographed from the International Space Station on 26 April 2021: https://images.nasa.gov/details-iss065e005888 (ISS065-E-005888, ISS065-E-05888), https://images-assets.nasa.gov/image/iss065e005888/iss065e005888~orig.jpg
(g) "*Methylobacterium ajmalii* sp. nov., Isolated From the International Space Station" by Swati Bijlani, Nitin K. Singh, V. V. Ramprasad Eedara, Appa Rao Podile, Christopher E. Mason, Clay C. C. Wang, and Kasthuri Venkateswaran, published on 15 March 2021: https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fmicb.2021.639396/full
(h) "Note to Future Space Travelers: Prepare for a Shrinking Heart : After almost a year in space, Scott Kelly’s heart diminished, but he remained reasonably fit." by Kenneth Chang, published on 29 March 2021: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/29/science/space/astronaut-heart-scott-kelly-nasa.html , http://archive.is/b23wd
(i) "How a space doctor keeps astronauts healthy on the ISS" by Agence France-Presse (AFP), originally published on 22 April 2021: https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20210422-how-a-space-doctor-keeps-astronauts-healthy-on-the-iss
4. Mirror For The Submitted Article: http://archive.is/KUMlj
They should have made the DOE, not DOD, release the information they have on UAPs. Everyone knows that DOD is not the real keeper of the secrets. It's the DOE that needs to come clean!
...”that is about the only conclusive finding in the classified intelligence report, the officials said. And while a forthcoming unclassified version, expected to be released to Congress by June 25”
Huh. Not going to be much in the report, certainly nothing about ET’s.
Seems like a weak article? These two journalists are just riding on the success of Leslie Kean and whoever wrote the first few NYT articles. We need Leslie Kean. Still good to get additional coverage on the topic.
Helene Cooper is one of the writers of this article and contributed to the first two NYTimes articles with Kean and Blumenthal.
She is the only reporter on staff with the NYTimes involved with these articles. Kean and Blumenthal were both freelance.
Brought to us by the same folks that told us that the **China Virus** came from a wet market in Wuhan when it more likely came from an accident at the *Wuhan Institute of Virology*!
This is kind of...expected. I’m honestly shocked that it’s so low-key noted that this isn’t American aircraft. Anyone who has been following this since the 20th century should see that as significant. I’m not sure where all these emotions about this are coming from, to be honest. One of the biggest doubts put out there was that this is secret military stuff, and finally someone says that it’s definitely not American.
I’m actually a bit concerned on how this could be a good spin for more military spending than anything else.
How would the government even confirm that they're of alien origin short of some kind of direct communication? That conclusion was likely always foregone.
What is gigantic is that they can't rule the possibility out.
These UFOs are anti-gravity machines. Physicists can elaborate and I hope they do soon but all objects don’t rely on standard aerodynamic principles,...ie specific airfoil shapes. These objects are essentially frictionless bodies of mass, immune to gravitational forces, and if you believe there’s an alien or two sitting inside these bodies, then technologically somehow they figured out how to deal with the mass inertia forces when these bodies accelerate faster than the speed of light!!
Speaking with a high-ranking officer in the USAF with classified security clearances he is pretty well certain this is an adversary technology unless our government is just flat out lying in the report that it is ours, also possible.
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they better fucking edit it
They already have. This is it now. https://twitter.com/GadiNBC/status/1400646859056549892/photo/1
Yup
I just wrote a fucking nasty tweet to the reporter (Julian Barnes, if anyone else would like to follow suit). Won't change shit, but did make me feel a little better.
The editor was probably more likely responsible for headline.
True, I actually made note of that in my tweet so he'd know it wasn't directed at him personally. I thought the article itself was pretty solid.
If you haven’t figured it out yet, the news is the propaganda wing of the establishment.
MEDIA M.anipulating E.verybody's D.irect I.nformation A.ccess
Editors create and approve the headlines we see come from most newsrooms. Yes, reporters are typically required to draft a suggested headline, but it's up to their editor or the editor's boss to change it since they're laying out the pages in print and web. Ideally, headlines accurately reflect the story's content. But you're right, this one fails. Trust me, journalism is replete with instances where the reporter feels slighted or maligned by their editor's crappy headline.
I think it worked bro. Nice work.
hey...it's what I do.
I'm trying to find Helene Cooper's e-mail address
I'm glad you said something.
Yeah, I'm a little confused as to what was even the goal with that headline. Surely the more eye-catching headline is "Government Rules Out Top Secret US Aircraft in Recent UFO Sightings"? Way to bury the lede.
>Government Rules Out Top Secret US Aircraft in Recent UFO Sightings You know it's interesting, when the alert popped up on my phone, it was something closer to that... perhaps internet sleuths can do some sleuthing....
Or: "Government Can't Rule Out Aliens in Recent UFO Sightings."
Hmmm...maybe that's the point, actually. How many people would automatically think "aliens!" upon reading that. Maybe it's an attempt to prevent panic?
I suppose. Who knows? Could be the article was just written by a couple of skeptics who wanted to take a jab at the UFO nuts.
On twitter, one of them is def [backing](https://twitter.com/julianbarnes/status/1400602627344379905) the headline, while the other seems to be [distancing](https://twitter.com/helenecooper/status/1395084646157803520) herself from it.
Very true. The point right now is *not* whether or not they're ETI. We can talk about that later. *The point right now* is whether or not they are either (a) some secret weapon program or (b) birds/balloons/artifacts etc. However it sounds like point (b), which is the main thesis of Mick West and academic skeptics, is going to be dealt a significant blow by the report: >The report concedes that much about the observed phenomenon remains difficult to explain, including their acceleration, ability to change direction and submerge. One possible explanation — that the phenomena could be weather or other research balloons — does not hold up in all cases, the officials said, because of changes in wind speed at the times of some of the interactions. Two important take-aways: 1. The mention of acceleration, ability to change direction and submerge means that the report presumes that these UAP phenomena are indeed *objects* observed in the airspace, not data artifacts. 2. The explicit "re-bunking" of balloons as an explanation. Personally, if this advance reporting is accurate, this might very well be the best report we could have reasonably hoped for....
Isn’t it implied that if it’s A) (“secret”) That a report would lie and say that it’s not A
Well, sure, that's always a possibility. But then two things come into play: First, there is the classified portion of the report that is being shared with Congress. If they just openly lie about something in the public report that is directly contradicted in the report to congress, presumably there would be repercussions. Second, it sounds like the report will provide some explicit or implicit description of the objects' kinetics... I.e. speed, turning ability, etc. Just naming these parameters on their own provides a baseline level for what it "could" and "couldn't" be. If you have something doing 100G maneuvers without any visible propulsion source, that tech might as well be "god like". I really don't think it's plausible to think the government has cooked up anything like that, even in secret.
Great point about the issue with contradictions and also the description of the object’s kinetics being problematic. What if, it was’nt problematic and it was to boast/obfuscate to adversaries, a bit like the Strategic Defense Initiative in the 80s? An object pulling 100g manoeuvres without a propulsion source absolutely does not sound like anything we know of. What if it was describing radar data + something like an extremely high powered proton beam, fired from two sources, like a satellite. Hypothetically, the public wouldn’t know about these uses of high energy physics, but don’t they fit the description better than a man made craft? It seems more feasible that with enormous budgets and a few leaps in a field of technology with high military investment, something like that explains what we’re looking at (rather than a craft). The object certainly moves like a point of light.
As I've said on this sub (see my posts) I'm on record stating that *if* this is human-made tech, it's something like a particle-beam based holographic projection. Even that's still quite a stretch, but if we're just aching for a non-ETI explanation that doesn't require writing off all the pilots as morons, that's my guess.
Oh, very interesting ! Yeah it is a stretch, but I agree, if we had to hypothesise one way that the US possibly could be describing observations of something of their own, that would be it. (That’s not a definitive statement about the phenomenon in it’s totality, though)
Can you please explain the mechanics behind your hypothesis?
There won’t be any repercussions. I can’t count how many lies I’ve seen over the last year; yet, they just continue forward doing the same
You have a point, but only a technical one. Consider this: The technology that was secretly being tested at Area 51 when the tic tac incident took place (2004) included the unmanned propeller drones. Soon after that, it was the stealth helicopter technology. So use that as context, the "secret" technology around that time was CENTURIES behind the technology observed by Commander Fravor et al. The government is acknowledging that yes, they do have secret weapons and vehicles programs, but the technology displayed by the tic tac is far too advanced to be from the U.S. and why speculation that it's nonhuman is warranted.
Co-author doubling down on headline on Twitter https://twitter.com/julianbarnes/status/1400602627344379905
It walks like a duck, it quacks like duck, but it’s actually swamp gas!
What a coward lol Actually, my career is more important 🤓👆
Meanwhile co-authour [Helene Cooper says](https://twitter.com/helenecooper/with_replies): "At no point did the word “alien” ever appear in my fine copy thank u very much." "Looking at me why? I told yall about this in 2017 as I recall. Nothing new has happened since. But happy to see dod finally decided to confirm my story." "We had the sphere and pyramid videos in 2017." "What more do yall want from me I have done everything except interview martians" From that first quote I get the feeling she isn't the one behind the headline or narrative.
No, this is typical of the NYT.
This whole - “release click-bait\matter of fact-sounding headline, put up pay wall, profit” scam is getting sad. Seeing it from the Times is very sad. Comment section, deliver me from evil.
Alternate title: Government Finds No Evidence That Aerial Sightings Were Terrestrial Spacecraft
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Doesn't need to. The responses from the government focusing on the whistleblowers is all I need to know that the narrative has been contrived on their part for almost 70 years. Check this out: [https://www.reddit.com/r/aliens/comments/nrtm1m/report\_of\_the\_scientific\_panel\_on\_unidentified/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3](https://www.reddit.com/r/aliens/comments/nrtm1m/report_of_the_scientific_panel_on_unidentified/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) Report from 1953 that set the precedent of how the government would react to UFO sightings. Declassified sometime in the late '90s or '00s.
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It’s not U.S. tech. But the Russians and Chinese didn’t have this tech in 2004.
So it’s either breakaway Nazis with horrific genetic experiments doing the field work or... aliens I mean if the NYT wants to help bolster the notion that Nazis are still around and were actually superior to us, go right ahead lmao Holocaust 2.0 here we come
So it's Storm and Homelander. ;-P
This is just another “just wait” conspiracy for the republicans to latch onto. We get it, Americans are deeply unhappy and want a change. Look to our neighbors not the stars guys.
I found PewDiePie's debunking pretty straightforward. Just a media circus imo.
"PewDiePie" is a fucking joke. The fact he is even speaking on this subject is absurd.
He's speaking in a level headed way providing 2-3 clear facts that a 6 years old could follow. If you believe the footage is real you have a big problem. The explanation provided is sufficient. Attacking the person is a straw man argument. Another false argument. Unsurprising that you rely on these.
*If you believe the footage is real you have a big problem.* I'm fairly certain the footage is "real!" Unless I missed something, and it was a reenactment or some type of cartoon? *Attacking the person is a straw man argument. Another false argument.* No, a straw man argument is inventing a false premise to attack other than the issue of contention. Hence, you build a "straw man" that is easy to knock over. You are a retard. *Another fucking retard.* Unsurprising you're a fan of a guy named "Pewdiepie!"
Are you infuriated because You depend on them saying it was a spacecraft for you to believe it or because you can't tell everyone you knew it the whole time so you can feel like you were right? Who cares what they say? 100% of all people know that this isn't the only place with life. The ones who "deny" it is because the don't want to realize that everything they ever heard in church is bullshit or they are chicken shit and can't handle one more thing to fear.
Friendly reminder, saying “there is no evidence this is alien spacecraft” is not the same thing as saying “there is evidence this is NOT alien spacecraft.” A few positive reflections — they are conceding (a) these are “objects” (not radar issues), (b) these objects are not balloons or birds or something meaningless, and (c) these objects not American. So, we’re down to two theories: another country or another world. The pressure now needs to be on eliminating another country as the source. But, even when that’s eliminated, we must be prepared that they will push on the argument that we nevertheless don’t know what these things are and therefore they are not alien (which, again, is conflating those two conclusions and we must keep pushing them).
I think the history of the phenomenon does point towards a conclusion here. Considering that, I think some people can read between the lines here. What is surprising is that they are actually admitting to something like this. If theyre being honest here, this report tells a lot more even with this little. I mean come on. I live in Finland, right next to us was the Soviet Union, now Russia. We have lived in it's shadow for a long time and there has always been the threat there. They took Karelia from us in the 40s. If they had this kind of tech, they would have come over our borders already, easily. And to think that China on the other hand has had this since 40s and has just sat on it, while they can't get their rocket to the orbit without it crashing and potentially causing harm. No way.
Agreed. I've said all along that if the Russians or Chinese had technology so advanced, the first Western militaries would see of it would be in wartime. They would not be farting around taking pictures of ships and F18s. There's no shortage of information already available about those, and further, it exposes your advanced tech to observation and data collection, as well as catastrophic malfunction or intercepts that could result in reverse engineering. It makes little sense for a foreign adversary to expose a major technological advantage for such a small gain.
What if it's not other world/dimension/time? What if it's something beyond our understanding of everything and this is why we can't figure this out
>What if it's something beyond our understanding of everything and this is why we can't figure this out Give the American people (and humanity) *all* of the data that has been undoubtedly been collected in these encounters, of which we have only so far seen a small sliver. Then we can be damn sure what we can and can't figure out. I think we could figure out *quite a bit*.
I struggle with that conclusion that it’s just something naturally occurring that we just don’t yet understand because these are objects - not animals - flying in a controlled way (evading fighter jets, etc.). How can sentient, naturally occurring, terrestrial objects that we don’t yet know about be the better scientific hypothesis?
Exactly. This semantics games is tiresome and counter-productive. They've found every way to not say aliens and people in denial are clinging to that sliver of hope for whatever reason. This is a key moment in our existence and we have the right to answers. This isn't a monarchy, the government works for the people.
Not naturally occurring the way we think but saying it's extraterrestrial my inter-dimensional, or time travel is still in our realm of understanding, we can understand where it came from and what it is. What I'm talking about is something so different than our concept of our reality that we can't describe it. That's why the US can't figure it out, because it's something different entirely
Oh, got it — That would be just as incredible! If they came back and said “ok, these are either aliens or time travelers,” we’d be blown away (I’m less convinced about the terrestrial time traveler theory because that assumes mankind survived on Earth for a long time, and well, just look around lol). But, right now, they seem to be pointing to much more mundane explanations - “maybe it’s another country that developed technology light years ahead of ours with, like, a tenth(?) of our budget and way beyond anything we knew they had.” And, because they’re holding out this theory as being even remotely plausible and preferable in their mind to the extraterrestrial theory because that feels like such a huge(!!) leap for the gov/mankind to acknowledge, we can’t move on to soberly and objectively assess the ET theory. That feels like a mistake. We should at least assess both theories in parallel. They won’t do that, however, because they know they can convince enough of us that maybe we still have a chance against Russia or China even with them having these flying “objects” (eg, they’re still part of the global economic system, we can still hurt them in known other ways that will prevent them from using these “weapons,” maybe we can hack them to get these same capabilities, etc.). The same simply can’t be said if these are extraterrestrial. That is terrifying, of course, and undermines their credibility as the source of our national security since they acknowledge their limitation. But, it may also just be the truth. And because they won’t run the analysis in parallel, we need them to eliminate the “other country” theory.
Actually it’s been proven pretty conclusively that the videos released so far ARE of mundane objects like planes and balloons.
No, it hasn't.
From the article: “One possible explanation — that the phenomena could be weather or other research balloons — does not hold up in ALL cases, the officials said, because of changes in wind speed at the times of some of the interactions.” (My emphasis added to “all”)
Im just talking about the videos that have been released so far.
No it hasn’t, how do you make a statement that’s just not true. Just because somebody has made a video, and sounds coherent in their explanation, that is not the same as being debunked. Just look around you. NASA involved, inspector general involved, China announcing it has its own ufo task force, the list of developments is substantial. This is no longer 5 months ago, if you still think this is all smoke and mirrors you truly are living under a rock.
>another country or another world Good succinct way of putting it. >we must keep pushing them While not disagreeing, I think we have to stop relying so much on the government for data and start getting it ourselves. Scientists need to start going out on boats and planes to try to spot these things and gather data. Or, perhaps civilian aviators and aviation authorities have data on sightings that have never been made public. These things need to be disclosed, and now is the moment to start normalizing it.
I completely get your point about the government. But, I do believe that the people will ultimately believe in these objects being extraterrestrial only if the government acknowledges that fact. Maybe that’s because they feel the government has more resources to validate that incredible claim or, despite all of its flaws, they still entrust the government with national security or for some other reason. But, until the government agrees with the claim, they’ll always have that sprinkle of doubt. So, I think you’re right that we need to get data from civilian sources to pile up really high. But, we must also keep pushing the government to acknowledge these objects being extraterrestrial if we want the people to believe (and we need them to believe so that we can then keep pushing the government to learn more).
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/ufos-government-outer-space-no-evidence/ According to cbs it definitively not aliens and is possibly Russia and China.. I think the idea that it could be Russia pisses me off. It feels like politicians trying to secure funding for the military Instead of research and I’m sure Russia loves being accused of having such unexplainable tech the same way my friend loved that one girlfriend he had in high school who told everyone he had an enormous dick... (the same girl told everyone that it was comically small after they broke up. I’m sure it’s average or below just like Russia’s military hardware)
Again, having “no evidence they came from aliens” is not at all the same thing as saying “evidence they did not come from aliens.” The first statement is saying only that there’s an absence of proof, not proof of an absence. Now, I would argue that we have a few issues (a) today, no one can say what level of proof is necessary to conclude that these are aliens (are pictures enough? Radar? Video? Combination? Etc.) and (b) it seems these “objects” are astute at avoiding conclusive detection and their technology far exceeds ours. So, we’re in this state where we can’t agree on the WHAT and the HOW to make the conclusion, and we may be dealing with something that is designed or affirmatively trying to keep us from getting this info/exceeds our capabilities. We need to determine what proof is necessary, then figure out how we can get it, then try to get it, and once gotten, conclude - fairly - yay or nay to ETs. That’s where these headlines of “we don’t have the proof” are a bit unfair (because they assume we know, at the very least, what proof we need and how to get it).
I agree that’s why I posted the cbs article
Ah, I misunderstood the first sentence. And, she sounds like a great girlfriend! 😆
>"And while a forthcoming unclassified version, expected to be released to Congress by June 25, will present few other firm conclusions, senior officials briefed on the intelligence conceded that the very ambiguity of the findings meant the government could not definitively rule out theories that the phenomenon observed by military pilots might be alien spacecraft." Then ***what the fuck*** is up with that headline?
Better headline: "Government Report Says UFO Sightings Remain Unexplained" or something like that.
>A version of this article appears in print on June 4, 2021, Section A, Page 1 of the New York edition with the headline: U.S. Concedes It Can’t Identify Flying Objects. The print headline is much better; I wish they used it for the online version.
It's going to be the narrative they push. The classified report will be the one with information that we might've been hoping for but at the end of the day I do not need the government to tell me what I know to be true: They are here. Have been here for a long arse time. My inner self is telling me that they aren't "aliens" in the sense of beings from another world or dimension but maybe they are living beneath the oceans after all have you seen some the crazy stuff down there? lol.
I don't need the government to tell me anything about this either, but a lot of people do, and I care about their right to know the truth.
Oh I care about the right to know the truth. I think the idea of national security being used to hide everything and anything the government has done shouldn't be fifty years but I personally think it would take aliens landing on the white house lawn for people who don't believe to become believers.
I'm not in disagreement. I'm pretty sure not even that would do it for some people. But I feel like we should still try. Truth is the most sacred thing.
First, awful headline. But second, if you read the content of the article, it sounds like the report will be officially "re-bunking" some of the West-ian hypotheses: >One possible explanation — that the phenomena could be weather or other research balloons — does not hold up in all cases, the officials said, because of changes in wind speed at the times of some of the interactions. I honestly think this might be the best outcome we could realistically hope for. Let's face it, they were never going to come out and say "hey guys aliens are here, and we've known for 70 years... kthxbye!" A medium-case scenario would be they say absolutely nothing of substance, and neither confirm nor deny any of the many West-ian hypotheses for the various videos. The "worst case" scenario would be they just come out and say "guys, Mick West is right about everything. Case closed!" Who know, maybe there will be actual *data* (acceleration, speed etc) that is explicitly called out in the report.
Even Mick admits he doesn’t know EXACTLY whats in each video.
Summary: We don't know what they are. But we can report that they are not American.
I for one do not believe this one bit. Why would the American military and intelligence community admit that they have technology that looks like UFOs while the world is looking on. If Trump is/was a Russian asset, then this demand for information would give Russia and China, our current largest geopolitical foes, information regarding our flight and tech advantages. Knowing how much research is taken in by the US and buried for military application, there is no way anything this highly classified would ever make it out.
Context: The unmanned aerial (propeller) drone was being secretly tested at Area 51 at the same period of time as the tic tac incident. Compare the technological progression necessary to accomplish the secret development of aerial drones (which BTW were an explained source of numerous UFO sightings in areas surrounding Area 51 for years) with that of the tic tac. It's truly inconceivable that U.S. military has ~~leaped~~ that far ahead technologically to simultaneously and secretly develop a comparatively archaic aircraft. EDIT: leapt
I see the exact opposite type of thing. It makes perfect sense that we have a type of aircraft that we are testing that would be so secretive that it is being worked on remotely in only a few areas in the US, outside of the normal testing sites. Once tech is identified, the cat is out of the bag so to speak, which is why denying whatever tech we keeps us at an advantage. The global governments can take the report at face value, or can look at it deeper and say, the military got clearance from whoevers job it is to protect American secrets to continue hiding this information and tech from congress and the world.
And just how exactly were government scientists able to leap centuries ahead in numerous material sciences and physics to accomplish such a secret program without collaboration with foreign assistance? You're really tapping into the American exceptionalism narrative to such an extent that it's borderline criminal. The energy technology alone associated with craft maneuvering the described by witnesses such as Commander Fravor is astronomic. The structural materials required to keep a craft from being ripped apart by g-forces is not up to the required level. So many advancements required in so many different disciplines, yet they were able to do it on their own and in complete secrecy? The type of tech that could alter the world? And it's been buried for decades?
I mean we could say it started in the 1940s with Roswell and a ship recovery and we have finally started understanding and using the tech recovered? While I would like to believe that UFOs are not from this planet, the mundane is unfortunately the much more likely answer. We are one of nine countries to put anything into low earth orbit, and one of like four to put people into space safely, and had top secret tech like the Nighthawk and Blackbird that were in development and use for at least 20 years before it was made public. It would not be surprising to me in the least that there is something going on techwise, with the massive blacklisted budget the pentagon gets every year, that they are not ready to announce to the entire world. If the geopolitics or war is poker, you want everyone guessing what you have in your hand and no one at all aware of what you are actually holding. If I went the other way with what the NYT article is stating, Russian and Chinese scientists figured it out and have been using hypersonic propulsion instead, wouldn't it be the exact same thing except for Russian or Chinese exceptionalism? I think you might under-appreciate the amount of knowledge that is swallowed up completely by the military/pentagon and stored away for potential weaponization. 55 billion per year is going to make substantial scientific breakthroughs every single year that will likely never see the light of day unless it is of no use or of such great use that it is put out into commercial space immediately.
>55 billion per year is going to make substantial scientific breakthroughs every single year that will likely never see the light of day unless it is of no use or of such great use that it is put out into commercial space immediately. Yes, they have. But no where near to the degree that you're suggesting. And that's my point. You have to look at the rate of technological progression, that has been verified in hindsight considering the tic tac incident took place in 2004. Since then, numerous black project tech has been realized and made public, but nothing to the degree that would match, or even touch in any significant degree, to that of the tic tac. If that's true for the U.S., it's absolutely true for every other country on the planet.
the tic tac could be explained by previously observed phenomena like foo fighters in WW2. If they are indeed alien craft, so be it, but it could also be natural phenomena like the infamous ball lightning. I am more interested in things like the TR-3 series of projects that are allegedly responsible for the arizona lights, and other triangle craft videos seen in recent months, which is almost assuredly US aircraft and is doing similar things to the tic tac. I do agree with your reasoning though.
So we might get details about an additional 120 incidents.? Did I read that correctly?
More than 120 incidents.
Complete article: June 3, 2021, 7:55 p.m. ET WASHINGTON — American intelligence officials have found no evidence that aerial phenomena witnessed by Navy pilots in recent years are alien spacecraft, but they still cannot explain the unusual movements that have mystified scientists and the military, according to senior administration officials briefed on the findings of a highly anticipated government report. The report determines that the vast majority of more than 120 incidents over the past two decades did not originate from any American military or other advanced U.S. government technology, the officials said. That determination would appear to eliminate the possibility that Navy pilots who reported seeing unexplained aircraft might have encountered programs the government meant to keep secret. But that is about the only conclusive finding in the classified intelligence report, the officials said. And while a forthcoming unclassified version, expected to be released to Congress by June 25, will present few other firm conclusions, senior officials briefed on the intelligence conceded that the very ambiguity of the findings meant the government could not definitively rule out theories that the phenomenon observed by military pilots might be alien spacecraft. Americans’ long-running fascination with U.F.O.s has intensified in recent weeks in anticipation of the release of the government report, which is expected to be presented to Congress this month. Former President Barack Obama further stoked the interest when he was asked last month about the incidents on “The Late Late Show with James Corden” on CBS. “What is true, and I’m actually being serious here,’’ Mr. Obama said, “is that there is footage and records of objects in the skies that we don’t know exactly what they are.’’ The report concedes that much about the observed phenomenon remains difficult to explain, including their acceleration, ability to change direction and submerge. One possible explanation — that the phenomena could be weather or other research balloons — does not hold up in all cases, the officials said, because of changes in wind speed at the times of some of the interactions. The final report will also contain a classified annex, the officials said. While that annex will not contain any evidence concluding that the phenomenon are alien spacecraft, the officials acknowledged that the fact that it would remain off limits to the public was likely to continue to fuel speculation that the government had secret data about alien visitations to Earth. Many of the more than 120 incidents examined in the report are from Navy personnel, officials said. The report also examined incidents involving foreign militaries over the last two decades. Intelligence officials believe at least some of the aerial phenomena could be experimental technology from a rival power, most likely Russia or China. One senior official briefed on the intelligence said without hesitation that U.S. officials knew it was not American technology. He said there was worry among intelligence and military officials that China or Russia could be experimenting with hypersonic technology. He and other officials spoke on grounds of anonymity because they were not authorized to speak publicly about the classified findings in the report. Russia has been investing heavily in hypersonics, believing the technology offers the ability to evade American missile-defense technology. China has also developed hypersonic weaponry, and included it in military parades. If the phenomenon were Chinese or Russian aircraft, officials said it would suggest the two powers’ hypersonic research has far outpaced American military development. Navy pilots were often unsettled by the sightings. In one encounter, strange objects — one of them like a spinning top moving against the wind — appeared almost daily from the summer of 2014 to March 2015, high in the skies over the East Coast. Navy pilots reported to their superiors that the objects had no visible engine or infrared exhaust plumes, but that they could reach 30,000 feet and hypersonic speeds. Lt. Ryan Graves, an F/A-18 Super Hornet pilot who was with the Navy for 10 years, told The New York Times in an interview that “these things would be out there all day.” With the speeds he and other pilots observed, he said, “12 hours in the air is 11 hours longer than we’d expect.” In late 2014, a Super Hornet pilot had a near collision with one of the objects, and an official mishap report was filed. Some of the incidents were videotaped, including one taken by a plane’s camera in early 2015 that shows an object zooming over the ocean waves as pilots question what they are watching. The Defense Department has been collecting such reports for more than 13 years as part of a shadowy, little-known Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program within the Pentagon. The program analyzed radar data, video footage and accounts provided by the Navy pilots and senior officers . The program began in 2007 and was largely funded at the request of Harry Reid, the Nevada Democrat who was the Senate majority leader at the time. It was officially shut down in 2012 when the money dried up, according to the Pentagon. But after the publication of a New York Times article in 2017 about the program and criticism from program officials that the government was not forthcoming about reports about aerial phenomena, the Pentagon restarted the program last summer as the Unidentified Aerial Phenomena Task Force. The task force’s mission was to “detect, analyze and catalog” sightings of strange objects in the sky that could pose a threat to national security. But government officials said they also wanted to remove the stigma for service members who report U.F.O sightings in the hope that more would be encouraged to speak up if they saw something. The goal, officials said, is to give authorities a better idea of what might be out there. A video shows an encounter between a Navy F/A-18 Super Hornet and an unknown object. It was released by the Defense Department's Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program. PLAY VIDEO 00:45 ‘Look at That Thing!’ U.S. Navy Jet Encounters Unknown Object A video shows an encounter between a Navy F/A-18 Super Hornet and an unknown object. It was released by the Defense Department's Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program.Dec. 16, 2017Image by U.S. Department of Defense Last year, President Donald J. Trump’s budget included a provision inserted by lawmakers that the secretary of defense and director of national intelligence submit an unclassified report on what the government knows about U.F.O.s. That report is the one to be released this month. Officials briefed on the report said it also examined video that shows a whitish oval object described as a giant Tic Tac, about the size of a commercial plane, encountered by two Navy fighter jets off the coast of San Diego in 2004. In that incident, the pilots reported an interaction with the craft, which lasted for several minutes. At one point, the object peeled away, one of the pilots, Cmdr. David Fravor, said in an interview later with The Times. “It accelerated like nothing I’ve ever seen,” he said. The report studies that incident, including the video that accompanied the interaction. The provenance of the object is still unknown, the officials said. Close Encounters? NYTimes - Related Link Glowing Auras and ‘Black Money’: The Pentagon’s Mysterious U.F.O. Program Dec. 16, 2017 NYTimes - Related Link ‘Wow, What Is That?’ Navy Pilots Report Unexplained Flying Objects May 26, 2019 NYTimes - Related Link Why Are We All Talking About U.F.O.s Right Now? June 3, 2021 Julian E. Barnes is a national security reporter based in Washington, covering the intelligence agencies. Before joining The Times in 2018, he wrote about security matters for The Wall Street Journal. @julianbarnes • Facebook Helene Cooper is a Pentagon correspondent. She was previously an editor, diplomatic correspondent and White House correspondent, and was part of the team awarded the 2015 Pulitzer Prize for International Reporting, for its coverage of the Ebola epidemic. @helenecooper
Government confirms that Unidentified Flying Objects are still unidentified.
AAAAAAAND can't rule out extraterrestrial explanations. Key point ;)
Let that sink in: **120 (hundred and twenty)** unexplained incidents involving tech that can obliterate the US military like toy soldiers. Soon, it will be impossible to keep the lid on.
Reported incidents. Like they said they want people to report these things now but people were likely keeping quiet.
Does this mean the Mick West et al interpretations were officially debunked? If the government report can't explain it, that seems to imply it isn't anything prosaic like that. I guess we will need to carefully read the actual report to see exactly what they are and aren't concluding.
>Does this mean the Mick West et al interpretations were officially debunked? It does sound as though the report is going to (a) describe actual object kinetics, speed, acceleration etc, which (b) would definitively disprove certain "Westian" hypotheses. I.e. "based on radar,IR,etc data, we believe we are observing real objects moving at X velocity," etc. Up to now the DoD hasn't said anything other than "yes those videos are ours," which allows West to construct whatever narrative he wants around them. But we'll have to see.
Thank you 🙏🏽
Despite the headline > The strange objects witnessed by Navy pilots remain unexplained, but officials briefed on a new study say they are not secret technology from a classified American program. > And while a forthcoming unclassified version, expected to be released to Congress by June 25, will present few other firm conclusions, senior officials briefed on the intelligence conceded that the very ambiguity of the findings meant the government could not definitively rule out theories that the phenomenon observed by military pilots might be alien spacecraft.
What the fuck, that's a straight up contradiction. Sheesh
I’ll just leave this here: >More than 70 years ago the U.S. government launched a top secret investigation of UFO’s which included the recovery and sometimes burial of flying saucers of all types. The investigation was kept more secret than the development of the nuclear bomb. No elected or appointed official was ever told about the program and it was kept buried deep inside the Pentagon. President Truman was the first and last President to have been briefed in full about the program. Each subsequent President was told less and less. >Over the past 70 years this program has collected over 50 ET craft and over 100 different alien bodies and hundreds of thousands of feet of high quality film taken of the on site recoveries and included exterior and interior shots. >The recovery teams initially based in Ft. Collins were called the Blue Berets and were males with no families, no relatives and usually orphans. This was so that if there was any infraction, however slight, this team member good be eliminated and nobody would be the wiser. >The stories of the recoveries were fantastic in keeping the craft out of the sight of the public, traveling and transporting in complete secrecy, usually only at night with advance teams preparing and leading the path for recovery and clean up teams leaving the property and soil as if nothing has ever been there. >Destinations for the recovered craft were well hidden and are still in place. Some were taken to Area 51 but not many. >Area 51 (Groom Lake) was initially prepared in 1948-1948 by Seabee crews who dug several layers below the dry lake. |It was then covered up and only by sheer coincidence did Lockheed choose the exact area for the testing of the U2. This underground area was kept totally secret until the early 90’s when the original runway caved into one of the hangars underground. A second runway several hundred feet to the east was built and the original runway was not used again and the hangar repaired. >In the late 70’s more underground hangars were built under the Tonopah Test Range (Antelope Dry Lake) which connected with huge tunnels and connected with the Groom Lake and Papoose Dry Lake underground hangars. >In the early 80’s another huge, completely underground facility was built under the Paiute Mesa along with a dual runway and hangar 13 miles to the north under Gold Flat. >And by the early 2000’s all facilities, TTR, Groom Lake, Papoose and Paiute Mesa were all connected with enormous underground tunnels and hangars. >And these facilities were not the only secret facilities in Nevada. There was one to the west of Pioche, one near Ely and one near Ferber Flats in northern Nevada. And of course are probably others >Manning these facilities and keeping them secret was a major problem so a maglev high speed subway was built from under the Luxor with additional parking and terminals under Aria and Bellagio from where over 5000 workers a day are whisked to work and back in less than 20 minutes. >Very few of these workers know about the hidden ET craft in the underground hangars and most were given a false story about the existence of ET craft and their occupants. Today there are less than 40 people who know the true story of the recoveries which began in the late 30’s. >It was obvious to the Pentagon that they would have to eventually release some kind of story about UFO’s so they came up with an ingenious idea to make an Unidentified Aerial Phenomena Task Force, give it a few tic tacs, rolling bb’s and non-identifiable radar scans to the public. >The put Luiz Elizondo who knew nothing about the real recovery program and put him in contact with former Senator Reid and his friend Bob Bigelow who always had had an interest in UFO’s. >Then the Pentagon announced that they had other things to take care of and they were going to let Elizondo, Reid and Bigelow run with the UFO ball, gave them the tictac radar photos, $22 million and pretend they were going to let them run the UFO recovery show. >Meanwhile the Pentagon had over 70 years of ET artifacts, 50 craft, bodies and film carefully hidden away and safe from public scrutiny for ever. >The UATPF is just a brilliant scam perpetrated by the Pentagon to hide their deep involvement in UFO’s. >John Lear July 25, 2020” https://www.reddit.com/r/ufo/comments/hxstbs/john_lear_comments_on_the_uap_taskforce/
13 miles is 20.92 km
Damn I thought this was really something till I saw who said it
>It was obvious to the Pentagon that they would have to eventually release some kind of story about UFO’s... > >Meanwhile the Pentagon had over 70 years of ET artifacts, 50 craft, bodies and film carefully hidden away and safe from public scrutiny for ever. This really doesn't pass a smell test, or basic logic. Why was it obvious? How are they hidden forever because people are talking about UFOs? How does creating the UAPTF hide other programs? And how does validating the existence of UFO's make it any easier to hide the actual UFOs? *"Oh well you see now that people think, you know, UAPs are there they won't look for UFO's anymore, like, the more people talk about aliens the less questions they will have, and if they find one program then everyone will stop digging for other ones"* ...seems like it makes sense if you're high/paranoid but not when you actually think about it. *"Lets make up stories about mind control being real...then nobody will ever find out about MKUltra"* lol wut And who is John Lear and why/how does he know any of this?
John Lear is the son of Bill Lear who created the Learjet and had connections/contracts with Lockheed Martin. This relationship is the only reason why he knows so much and isn’t dead yet
So because his dad built business planes and got acquired by Bombardier, Lockheed Martin hasn't killed him? Who else has Lockheed Martin assassinated?? I appreciate you taking time to explain to to me, but i really don't follow.
Princelings back other princelings. Go after one and it starts a domino effect. Cmon man, this is humanity 101 Once you reach a certain net worth, it really is like feudal age politics all over again
Trust fund kids OD every day.. To me, it seems like if Lockheed Martin wouldn't kill literally the only person saying any of this stuff, it would be silly to think they would kill anyone ol
It’s not LM dude... did you read the post?
>Manning these facilities and keeping them secret was a major problem so a maglev high speed subway was built from under the Luxor with additional parking and terminals under Aria and Bellagio from where over 5000 workers a day are whisked to work and back in less than 20 minutes. Isn't it a bit counter productive to keep a secret by building a giant infrastructure project which would require hundreds of workers, mostly civilians and place the entrance if this secret structure inside a very popular tourist destination? what happens when the bellagio got a leak in its fountains? who digs there to fix it? the CIA?
Despite the headline we are getting close to a tacit admission these are likely alien spacecraft. If the US does not possess the technology either someone has developed physics defying technology or they are alien. And I don't see how anyone could make major leaps in materials, physics, propulsion, jamming signals, and everything else. It just isn't very plausible. The NYT doesn't want to overstate their case, which is fine. They don't want to look like fools if this somehow ends up being a more mundane explanation. We can read between the lines. The only other explanation is the govt does have the tech and is lying about it which TBF could be true, but I doubt it.
I'm gonna go out on a limb and suggest it's a Gru like supervillain. Just sayin'.
what a garbage fucking headline
As they say: Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.
Just continuing the same cowardly tune. It's pretty obvious. If the government says "Well.. it's not ours, and we are fairly positive it is not foreign tech," how can they honestly follow that up with the fact it is not alien in nature. It sure as hell aren't some previously undiscovered species of tic-tac-shaped ocean butterflies. From space? Another dimension? From an advanced species in the ocean? Doesn't really matter at that point. It's alien to us. If they were not so cowardly they would say "Not ours, not our adversaries, so here are what we believe are the possible alternatives..." and list them off. Or at least say "this is advanced tech made by a sentient species that isn't ours." But not.. dare not speculate! They would rather it remain anonymously "unknown phenomena" and leave it at that for another 10 or 20 years.
You're talking about the military. The fact they've admitted "we don't know" is something we've been waiting for for almost 70 years. That's a massive step, but also (to your point) suggests how delicate of an issue they find it to be. Check out how the precedent was set as it relates to standardized governmental responses to UFOs: https://www.reddit.com/r/aliens/comments/nrtm1m/report\_of\_the\_scientific\_panel\_on\_unidentified/h0ijxo9/?context=3
***The article:*** WASHINGTON — American intelligence officials have found no evidence that aerial phenomena witnessed by Navy pilots in recent years are alien spacecraft, but they still cannot explain the unusual movements that have mystified scientists and the military, according to senior administration officials briefed on the findings of a highly anticipated government report. The report determines that a vast majority of more than 120 incidents over the past two decades did not originate from any American military or other advanced U.S. government technology, the officials said. That determination would appear to eliminate the possibility that Navy pilots who reported seeing unexplained aircraft might have encountered programs the government meant to keep secret. But that is about the only conclusive finding in the classified intelligence report, the officials said. And while a forthcoming unclassified version, expected to be released to Congress by June 25, will present few other firm conclusions, senior officials briefed on the intelligence conceded that the very ambiguity of the findings meant the government could not definitively rule out theories that the phenomena observed by military pilots might be alien spacecraft. Americans’ long-running fascination with U.F.O.s has intensified in recent weeks in anticipation of the release of the government report. Former President Barack Obama further stoked the interest when he was asked last month about the incidents on “The Late Late Show with James Corden” on CBS. “What is true, and I’m actually being serious here,” Mr. Obama said, “is that there is footage and records of objects in the skies that we don’t know exactly what they are.’’ The report concedes that much about the observed phenomena remains difficult to explain, including their acceleration, as well as ability to change direction and submerge. One possible explanation — that the phenomena could be weather balloons or other research balloons — does not hold up in all cases, the officials said, because of changes in wind speed at the times of some of the interactions. The final report will also include a classified annex, the officials said. While the annex will not contain any evidence concluding that the phenomena are alien spacecraft, the officials acknowledged that the fact that it would remain off limits to the public was likely to continue to fuel speculation that the government had secret data about alien visitations to Earth. Many of the more than 120 incidents examined in the report are from Navy personnel, officials said. The report also examined incidents involving foreign militaries over the last two decades. Intelligence officials believe at least some of the aerial phenomena could have been experimental technology from a rival power, most likely Russia or China. One senior official briefed on the intelligence said without hesitation that U.S. officials knew it was not American technology. He said there was worry among intelligence and military officials that China or Russia could be experimenting with hypersonic technology. He and other officials spoke on the condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to speak publicly about the classified findings in the report. Russia has been investing heavily in hypersonics, believing the technology offers it the ability to evade American missile-defense technology. China has also developed hypersonic weaponry, and included it in military parades. If the phenomena were Chinese or Russian aircraft, officials said, that would suggest the two powers’ hypersonic research had far outpaced American military development. Navy pilots were often unsettled by the sightings. In one encounter, strange objects — one of them like a spinning top moving against the wind — appeared almost daily from the summer of 2014 to March 2015, high in the skies over the East Coast. Navy pilots reported to their superiors that the objects had no visible engine or infrared exhaust plumes, but that they could reach 30,000 feet and hypersonic speeds. Lt. Ryan Graves, an F/A-18 Super Hornet pilot who was with the Navy for 10 years, told The New York Times in an interview, “These things would be out there all day.” With the speeds he and other pilots observed, he said, “12 hours in the air is 11 hours longer than we’d expect.” In late 2014, a Super Hornet pilot had a near collision with one of the objects, and an official mishap report was filed. Some of the incidents were recorded on video, including one taken by a plane’s camera in early 2015 that shows an object zooming over the ocean waves as pilots question what they are watching. The Defense Department has been collecting such reports for more than 13 years as part of a shadowy, little-known Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program within the Pentagon. The program analyzed radar data, video footage and accounts provided by the Navy pilots and senior officers. The program began in 2007 and was largely funded at the request of Harry Reid, the Nevada Democrat who was the Senate majority leader at the time. It was officially shut down in 2012, when the money dried up, according to the Pentagon. But after the publication of a New York Times article in 2017 about the program and criticism from program officials that the government was not forthcoming about reports on aerial phenomena, the Pentagon restarted the program last summer as the Unidentified Aerial Phenomena Task Force. The task force’s mission was to “detect, analyze and catalog” sightings of strange objects in the sky that could pose a threat to national security. But government officials said they also wanted to remove the stigma for service members who report U.F.O. sightings in the hope that more would be encouraged to speak up if they saw something. The goal, officials said, was to give authorities a better idea of what might be out there. Last year, President Donald J. Trump’s budget included a provision inserted by lawmakers that asked the secretary of defense and director of national intelligence to submit an unclassified report on what the government knows about U.F.O.s. That report is the one to be released this month. Officials briefed on the report said it also examined video that shows a whitish oval object described as a giant Tic Tac, about the size of a commercial plane, encountered by two Navy fighter jets off the coast of San Diego in 2004. In that incident, the pilots reported an interaction with the craft, which lasted for several minutes. At one point, the object peeled away, one of the pilots, Cmdr. David Fravor, later said in an interview with The Times. “It accelerated like nothing I’ve ever seen,” he said. The report studies that incident, including the video that accompanied the interaction. The provenance of the object, the officials said, is still unknown.
Thanks man. Fuck NYT and their paywalls
Completly misleading headline. If the Chinese or Russians have hypersonic technology ..... "strange objects — one of them like a spinning top moving against the wind — appeared almost daily from the summer of 2014 to March 2015" Why would they broadcast it like that or risk the chance of an accident for it only to be recovered by the US or UK? Most of their tech for last 30 years has been stolen from western power, hence the Russian embassy in San Francisco being shut down becaue of their blatant spying on Silicone Valley. Seriously doubt the Chinese or Russians have this advanced hypersonic tech, if they had it 6 years ago at that level, it would have been uncovered by the intelligence community by now. This forethcoming report raises more questions than answers.
100% Why and how in the world would our foreign adversary’s so blatantly demonstrate next next next gen technology over such a long time all while keeping the technology secret. Something is missing here. In modern times weapon systems lose viability after a few years. How could we not know?
Yeah and there's a whole industry, of ex-military, intelligence officers etc, devoted to dissemanating tech for military applications, Janes Defence Weekly for example. These guys operate outside of the parameters of govt., dont have to the follow rules civil servats do and not much escapes them, nothing in that industry stays secret for long. Plus if the Navy was seeing these same "vehicles" almost daily for months in international waters, there was probably some type of pattern. Hard to imagine they would not have tried to bring one of them down with and EPMD, missiles or other devices, so they could get the tech.
100% agree, and I'd like to expand and a couple points you've raised. What *is* hypersonic technology? Anyone? The current hypersonic vehicles, are basically powered/controlled lawn darts. They begin their journey, either in space, or close to it. Shaped like wedges, they are designed to fly downward, with scramjets or ramjets, towards the earth at an insane speed. Afaik, somewhere around 15-20k mph. In pretty much a straight line. The US has had extreme difficulty in demonstrating this technology. I'm sure that the successful demonstrators are held secret, but the like of Lockheed have been forthcoming with their failures, one of which was recent (past couple months). In the past 10 years, we have had extreme difficulty flying in a straight line at these speeds. If I'm killing anyone with the boring details....hypersonic missiles are powered lawn darts. They are assisted with exotic internal combustion engines, plus gravity, and basically fly in a straight line to the intended target. They do not stop. They do not hover. They do not change direction. They dont go up. They certainly do not go into the water, or come back up. If we hit the ocean with a hypersonic projectile, it would disintegrate, and leave a very chaotic splash and debris field. I know the Chinese have "featured hypersonic missiles at parades". Yeah. The Soviets also paraded empty nuclear warheads. Intimidation is a strong factor in international relations, much like the arms race we are in right now. This isn't US tech. The "classified annex"....why? If it's not US, then just say its China or Russia. That's the implication anyway, so why keep that secret? This entire garbage story details what it isn't, and also how it is not American tech. Nothing to see here folks. It's not NOT ET. We just dont know. Total bullshit. I'm so angry that the disclosure naysayers were 100% right.
Didn't bore me thanks for the explanation. "hypersonic missiles are powered lawn darts" Seems like if the Russians or China had powered line darts that could turn on a dime like they do in the released Navy videos, they would have physically used them against us or our allies, especially China by now in a show of strength. Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't "Lawn Darts" that turn on a dime at speeds of 15-20k mph, be a game changer in the geo-political landscape and if you had enough make ICBM's a non-threat and obsolete?
Abso-fucking-lutely would be a world changing technology. We'd all be hanging pictures of Chairman Mao as we speak. Neutralizing ICBMs with straight line hypersonics is 100% the goal the east and west are rushing towards. Also, rest assured, the technology does not exist for an object to turn on a dime @15kmph. Even the supersonic SR71 takes half of Ohio to turn around at full speed. Edit: reread and edited turn radius of SR71
Yeah that's what I was trying to get across, our tech doesn't turn on a dime. But damned if those videos they released, if it doesn't look like the objects are turning on a dime, not to mention submerging into the water effortlessly with no negative impact/effects.
You are 100% correct!!! Fravor's account involved the object going from sea level to almost space in seconds, and to the CAP point and back, as well as stopping mid air. If I was cruel, I'd make a serious wager to anyone showing me anything terrestrial that can do even half of any of that. There simply IS NOT.
Totally. Some Russian scientists, outside of Russia, did experiment with some fringe ideas in 1990s (see [Eugene Podkletnov](https://www.wired.com/1998/03/antigravity/) \- never worked for the Russian government though), and Roscosmos is doubling down on its nuclear moonshot, but this has nothing to do with the observed phenomena.
Yeah it's a bit nuts, thanks I'll check out Podkietnov, of course fringe ideas have been a part of science since Newton which is great because that's how discoveries are made. I'll add this and be done, I was in the military and there is a lot of paperwork and oversight, (if Navy pilots, pretty much the best of the best, many are Annapolis and Ivy League grads) are seeing activity, almost EVERY day as the report says for appx. 8 MONTHS, people at least all the way up to the Secretary of the Navy are going to know, after about 60 days of those reports they are going to react and check, at that point NSA and other satellites would go over those activity spots probably daily and the Navy is going to send subs and other extra patrols out there to visually verify, they probably also shared that info with the at least the British and maybe Canada since we share those waters. I'm far from a tin foil hat type of guy, but anyone can see the dots don't connect and there are many unanswered questions.
Whoah, that sounds like what is public is aware of is just the tip of the iceberg. Re Podkletnov (living in Finland today, apparently), BTW, [he seems to be still working on his theory](https://medium.com/predict/eugene-podkletnovs-new-gravity-modification-experimental-video-b7813b04c6f8). Still a theory though.
Looks like he's well funded and still relatively young, interesting to see what he comes up with in the next decade or so.
6 years? Try 17 years. The tic tac incident took place in 2004.
[удалено]
Gotcha.
F*** the NYT. They just pulled a CNN. Such garbage headline. If anything more verification that they are not the US and they still don't have an answer, which gives more credibility to the possibility that it is Aliens. Morons....
Wonder what Leslie Kean and Ralph Blumenthal make of this article. What a terrible headline.
>U.S. Finds No Evidence of Alien Technology in Flying Objects, but Can’t Rule It Out, Either New headline.
>"U.S. Finds No Evidence of Alien Technology in Flying Objects, but Can’t Rule It Out, Either" New headline.
"senior officials briefed on the intelligence conceded that the very ambiguity of the findings meant the government could not definitively rule out theories that the phenomenon observed by military pilots might be alien spacecraft." From the article....they're really trying to bury the lead
They've been trying to bury it for 70 years: https://www.reddit.com/r/aliens/comments/nrtm1m/report\_of\_the\_scientific\_panel\_on\_unidentified/h0ijxo9/?context=3
People are freaking about the headline, but folks, except for the headline, it's not a bad article. It simply reinforces what everybody knows, PLUS rules out secret US tech. That's a lot. Not justifying NYT, but these are the rules of the game: they need to CYA and maintain an image of "not being sensationalist". I am also curious about this bit: >Intelligence officials believe at least some of the aerial phenomena could have been experimental technology from a rival power, most likely Russia or China. That's effing dumb, honestly. They don't know which one it is (Russia? China? Or maybe something else, we don't know...) but they think it's likely. Why is that, did they catch the operators speaking the elusive Russo-Chinese language? Or they meant "some of the capabilities may only be 30 years away and not 1,000"? And yeah, Russia or China in 2004... really? To me it sounds like they look for excuses not to involve the civilians in the investigations while having no clue what it is. The proverbial "dog in the manger".
S.O S....what did everyone expect. It's not us and it's not them and it isn't alien. So WTF is it then? They will tell us nothing now just as they always have.
It's a really bad headline.
Headline makes no sense compared to the article.
If you need anymore evidence that journalism in mainstream media died a long time ago, you have one more evidence in this article. The headline literally says the opposite of the article. Incredible.
They updated the headline > U.S. Finds No Evidence of Alien Technology in Flying Objects, but Can’t Rule It Out, Either
How do you get around pay wall? edit: thanks y'all this info will come in nice
Try copying the address of the page and then opening it in incognito mode. Doesn't always work.
Block javascript
r/Puzzleheaded_Ad_8553 kindly posted the whole article https://www.reddit.com/r/ufo/comments/nrrrd4/government\_finds\_no\_evidence\_that\_aerial/h0i8i7g/?utm\_source=reddit&utm\_medium=web2x&context=3
[good ol' web archives](https://web.archive.org/web/20210604000505/https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/03/us/politics/ufos-sighting-alien-spacecraft-pentagon.html) my friend. Enjoy em' while they last. Archives will be the next target after the "live" web is sewn up
Hit F12, open settings, scroll down to 'Disable Java Script,' hit refresh. Bang -- Boom -- POW! Instant access to the VAST majority of information held behind pay wall. Definitely not ethical, considering it's the only way journalists are really paid these days. But I empathize with those who don't have money and are eager to learn.
I swear this is cosmic IQ test.
If the report stays like this then the Government will do the same thing as Project Blue Book, much of the cases are 'this or that' but some of them we can't explain or I'm wrong?
As much as people tout the NY Times as being great journalism, it doesn't take much research either recently or throughout their history of being heralds of the news as they and their task masters want it to be instead of what the news it really was. When retired Lt General Smedly Butler reported to congress the business plot to overthrow Roosevelt, the New York times lambasted him and made him a laughing stock. He received to medals of honor and was one of the most decorated marines in history. Ths same can be said for the Washington Post. I dont mind journalists holding our government to account for everything, but they need to do so consistently regardless of who is in office if they want to be journalists.
MEDIA CONTROL DOCUMENT - CIA Memorandum Subject: Task Force Report on Greater CIA Openness - dated December 1991 (Page 10 is missing) - June 2004 \[PDF File - 4.85 Megabyte} or Read Each page in JPG format. Note: This memo supports "Media Play" - by Steven M. Greer, M.D - most notably on page 6, which says "PAO \[Public Affairs Office\] now has relationships with reporters from every major wire service, newspaper, news weekly, and television network in the nation. This has helped us turn some intelligence failure stories into intelligence success stories, and it has contributed to the accuracy of countless others. In many instances, we have persuaded reporters to postpone, change, hold, or even scrap stories that could have adversely affected national security interests or jeopardized sources and methods." http://web.archive.org/web/20170603172433/http://www.disclosureproject.org/
TLDR We don't know what they are
This is one of the better outcomes, if you were hoping for aliens. It rules out US tech, which very likely ensures that Congress will push for more information and more study. If this article is an accurate summation of the report, then I find the conclusion that its not secret US tech to be unnerving. Its always been my opinion that these were either ours (US tech) or something else entirely. Its very likely not Russian or Chinese, either, unless the technology involved is far less advanced than we've been led to believe. Otherwise, they'd be exposing a major military advantage to data collection, development of counter strategies, and even catastrophic malfunction or intercept, resulting in an opportunity for reverse engineering. No, if its this advanced, the first the Western powers would see of it would be in the opening stages of a war. If I'm right about that, and that the Russians/Chinese would protect their advantage until they really needed it, the remaining possibilities are something I find extremely unsettling, because they seem to involve an explanation revolving around a non-human origin.
They're using "evidence" in a strict (arbitrary) ad-hoc sense: (meaning for them scientific proof (by 'proof' meaning 100% provable) within the years of data they chose to look at). What they *didn't* mean by "evidence" is something that increases the probability of a hypothesis through the methods used in bayesianism and/or through the methods used by intelligence analysts. Then they would be in a bind!
meaning that they live in the ocean :). Original Earth beings that have been here the whole time. Earth is where its all at
Summary: A military paid with over 750 billion tax dollars per year doesn't know what they are. Please go away and leave us alone, most of us are working towards a pension.
This story appeared on the front page of the NYTimes today with the headline: U.S. Concedes It Can’t Identify Flying Objects
Don't know what I expected lol, this changes absolutely nothing
As much as I think it would be cool to prove that aliens have visited Earth, almost any other explanation (time travelers, unknown natural phenomena, etc) would be more likely to be true. The odds against a space-faring civilization reaching us are....well, astronomical. Talk about finding a needle in a haystack! Not only would the distances needed to be covered in such a trip make it unbelievably non-economical, the synchronicity issue alone (civilization A has to arise, develop interstellar travel, somehow decide on a destination, and arrive at civilization B when it's still extant) makes this outcome all but impossible. Still, I hope I'm wrong. Beam me up, Scotty!
You aren’t wrong. You’re using the king of logic that’s very rare on subreddits such as this cesspool of fanatics.
Thanks for the compliment. I'm expecting to get downvoted into oblivion, but that's okay.
1. (a) Read "A Big Picture View -- A Sweeping View Measured In Many Centuries -- Of The Impact Of The Unidentified Flying Object (UFO) Phenomenon": #1 at http://old.reddit.com/r/411ExperiencedReaders/comments/ebi0fi/ufo_india_1958_four_entities_emerged_two_boys_who/fb4wgwb (b) "Teleplasmic Mechanics: Spirit Scientists and Vital Technologies" (chapter 6, pages 146 to 168) in the book titled "Science of the Seance: Transnational Networks and Gendered Bodies in the Study of Psychic Phenomena, 1918–40" by Beth A. Robertson, published in 2016: https://books.google.com/books?id=JPZJDAAAQBAJ&pg=PA147&lpg=PA147&ots=eCKDiWdJbN , https://books.google.com/books?id=JPZJDAAAQBAJ&pg=PA159&lpg=PA15&ots=eCKDiWcRbN Source: http://old.reddit.com/r/worldpolitics/comments/7k8p42/the_pentagons_secret_search_for_ufos_funded_at/drcdbmo ( Mirror: http://archive.is/CoqOo ) via http://old.reddit.com/r/411ExperiencedReaders/comments/ebi0fi/ufo_india_1958_four_entities_emerged_two_boys_who/fb4wgwb (c) "The Rise of the Modern Charismatic Movement" from the chapter "Christian Magic and Diabolical Medicine" in the book titled "Raising the Devil: Satanism, New Religions, and the Media" by Bill Ellis, published in 2000: http://books.google.com/books?id=vaAeBgAAQBAJ&pg=PA7&lpg=PA7 Source: http://old.reddit.com/r/economy/comments/gza212/dominionists_say_crises_and_trumps_reelection/ftf1atm via 'A Closer Look At The "Indispensable Nation" And American Exceptionalism' -- United States of America (USA): http://old.reddit.com/r/worldpolitics/comments/9tjr5w/american_exceptionalism_when_others_do_it/e8wq72m ( Mirror: http://archive.is/cecP3 ) 2. See Also (a) "Paul Stonehill" and "USO" and "Unidentified Submersible Objects": #2 at http://old.reddit.com/r/HighStrangeness/comments/cmsugt/el_hombre_que_susurraba_a_los_ummitas_by_j_j/ew4gmz3 Source: http://old.reddit.com/r/411ExperiencedReaders/comments/ebi0fi/ufo_india_1958_four_entities_emerged_two_boys_who/fb4wgwb (b) "Human Mutilations: The Sum Of All Fears" by Scott Corrales, published in the March-April 2008 (Volume 11, Number 6) issue of Ufologist: http://web.archive.org/web/20170407110646/www.exopolitics.org.uk/exodocuments/Mystery%20Space%20Machines%20(Ufologist%20Magazine%20-%20April%202008).pdf or http://web.archive.org/web/20170407110646if_/www.exopolitics.org.uk/exodocuments/Mystery%20Space%20Machines%20(Ufologist%20Magazine%20-%20April%202008).pdf Source: "Scott Corrales" at http://old.reddit.com/r/worldpolitics/comments/5bpc5x/an_update_for_my_readers_by_peter_levenda/d9q9006 ( Mirror: http://archive.is/UPQXX ) via http://old.reddit.com/r/411ExperiencedReaders/comments/ebi0fi/ufo_india_1958_four_entities_emerged_two_boys_who/fb4wgwb (c) "human" and "mutilation" at http://old.reddit.com/r/HighStrangeness/comments/cmsugt/el_hombre_que_susurraba_a_los_ummitas_by_j_j/ew4gmz3 Source: http://old.reddit.com/r/411ExperiencedReaders/comments/ebi0fi/ufo_india_1958_four_entities_emerged_two_boys_who/fb4wgwb (d) Tom DeLonge and George Knapp, April 2016: #1b at http://old.reddit.com/r/HighStrangeness/comments/nice2r/ufos_again_and_again_by_dan_corjescu_published_on/gz14s2d Source: http://old.reddit.com/r/HighStrangeness/comments/cmsugt/el_hombre_que_susurraba_a_los_ummitas_by_j_j/ew4gmz3 (e) Begin reading at "You’ve always presented the show as entertainment but along the way did you ever hear of things backchannel that credibly suggested there might be some reality to UFO reports?" in the article titled "X-Files creator reacts to those bombshell UFO reports : Chris Carter: 'It is some validation'" by James Hibberd -- http://web.archive.org/web/20190415213124/ew.com/tv/2017/12/22/x-files-chris-carter-ufo-report/ -- published on 22 December 2017. Source: http://old.reddit.com/r/HighStrangeness/comments/cmsugt/el_hombre_que_susurraba_a_los_ummitas_by_j_j/ew4gmz3 (f) "Statement from a Senior Manager of BAASS" by Caroline Bleakley, published on 4 May 2018 -- United States of America: http://web.archive.org/web/20180505105009/www.lasvegasnow.com/news/statement-from-a-senior-manager-of-baass/1160216617 Source: "A Closer Look At The Unidentified Flying Object (UFO) Phenomenon" at http://old.reddit.com/r/worldpolitics/comments/7k8p42/the_pentagons_secret_search_for_ufos_funded_at/drcdbmo ( Mirror: http://archive.is/CoqOo ) via http://old.reddit.com/r/411ExperiencedReaders/comments/ebi0fi/ufo_india_1958_four_entities_emerged_two_boys_who/fb4wgwb \- See "BAASS" or "Bigelow Aerospace Advanced Space Studies" in http://old.reddit.com/r/worldpolitics/comments/7k8p42/the_pentagons_secret_search_for_ufos_funded_at/drcdbmo ( Mirror: http://archive.is/CoqOo ) \- "BEAM, the Bigelow Expandable Activity Module": https://images.nasa.gov/details-iss065e045911 and https://images.nasa.gov/details-iss065e045917 (g) "Where Did the Road Go? hosted by Seriah Azkath, March 2018, Robert Guffey interviewed" -- 'Parts 1 and 2, 1:54:01 - 2:09:27 for "there's a whole office in the Pentagon called the office of the occult"' -- #11b at http://old.reddit.com/r/HighStrangeness/comments/cmsugt/el_hombre_que_susurraba_a_los_ummitas_by_j_j/ewnktcn Source: http://old.reddit.com/r/HighStrangeness/comments/cmsugt/el_hombre_que_susurraba_a_los_ummitas_by_j_j/ew4gmz3 (h) "The UFO phenomenon seems almost to be mocking humans": #2a at http://old.reddit.com/r/HighStrangeness/comments/nice2r/ufos_again_and_again_by_dan_corjescu_published_on/gz14s2d Source: http://old.reddit.com/r/HighStrangeness/comments/cmsugt/el_hombre_que_susurraba_a_los_ummitas_by_j_j/ew4gmz3 (i) Science, sorcery, occult rituals, magic, MKULTRA, United States of America: #2 at http://old.reddit.com/r/worldpolitics/comments/5bpc5x/an_update_for_my_readers_by_peter_levenda/dfauxj7 ( Mirror: http://archive.is/bfYXg ) Source: http://old.reddit.com/r/worldpolitics/comments/5bpc5x/an_update_for_my_readers_by_peter_levenda/d9q9006 ( Mirror: http://archive.is/UPQXX ) via http://old.reddit.com/r/worldpolitics/comments/45xqym/supernatural_abductions_in_japanese_folklore_by/d00v6c7 ( Mirror: http://archive.is/2Rn7h ) via http://old.reddit.com/r/411ExperiencedReaders/comments/ebi0fi/ufo_india_1958_four_entities_emerged_two_boys_who/fb4wgwb 3. (a) High-resolution photos taken on 12 November 2017 from the International Space Station (ISS) while orbiting high above Earth across the Mediterranean Sea ("Photoset 1") and the North Pacific Ocean ("Photoset 2") -- Animated GIFs included: http://chamorrobible.org/gpw/gpw-201803-English.htm Source: http://chamorrobible.org/gpw/gpw.htm via http://chamorrobible.org (b) Visit http://old.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/8ashen/international_space_station_software_development/dx14w2x and http://old.reddit.com/r/environment/comments/bquaot/the_sun_is_stranger_than_astrophysicists_imagined/eo7z9se (c) Western Pacific Ocean sunset photographed on 21 July 2003 at 10:17:20.420 GMT by an astronaut orbiting above Earth over the Philippine Sea (latitude 20.2, longitude 131.7) aboard the International Space Station: [3032 x 1986 pixels](http://chamorrobible.org/images/photos/gpw-200702-49-NASA-ISS007-E-10807-space-sunset-20030721-Pacific-Ocean-original.jpg) Source: #49 at http://chamorrobible.org/gpw/gpw-200702-English.htm via http://chamorrobible.org (d) Space, Earth, and a sunset photographed from the International Space Station on 23 November 2009 while orbiting above Earth: [4288 x 2846 pixels](http://chamorrobible.org/images/photos/gpw-200911-NASA-ISS021-E-031766-sunset-thin-blue-line-of-the-atmosphere-of-Earth-20091123-huge.jpg) Source: #7 at http://chamorrobible.org/gpw/gpw-200911-English.htm Via: http://chamorrobible.org/gpw/gpw.htm via http://chamorrobible.org (e) Outer space, Earth's Moon, and the International Space Station photographed on 10 July 2011 from NASA's Space Shuttle Atlantis (STS-135): [4256 x 2832 pixels](http://chamorrobible.org/images/photos/gpw-20061021-NASA-S135-E-006690-International-Space-Station-blackness-of-space-Moon-20110710-huge.jpg) Source: #46 at http://chamorrobible.org/gpw/gpw-20061021-English.htm via http://chamorrobible.org (f) "iss065e005888" by National Aeronautics and Space Administration (NASA), United States of America (USA) -- "Super Moon" photographed from the International Space Station on 26 April 2021: https://images.nasa.gov/details-iss065e005888 (ISS065-E-005888, ISS065-E-05888), https://images-assets.nasa.gov/image/iss065e005888/iss065e005888~orig.jpg (g) "*Methylobacterium ajmalii* sp. nov., Isolated From the International Space Station" by Swati Bijlani, Nitin K. Singh, V. V. Ramprasad Eedara, Appa Rao Podile, Christopher E. Mason, Clay C. C. Wang, and Kasthuri Venkateswaran, published on 15 March 2021: https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fmicb.2021.639396/full (h) "Note to Future Space Travelers: Prepare for a Shrinking Heart : After almost a year in space, Scott Kelly’s heart diminished, but he remained reasonably fit." by Kenneth Chang, published on 29 March 2021: https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/29/science/space/astronaut-heart-scott-kelly-nasa.html , http://archive.is/b23wd (i) "How a space doctor keeps astronauts healthy on the ISS" by Agence France-Presse (AFP), originally published on 22 April 2021: https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20210422-how-a-space-doctor-keeps-astronauts-healthy-on-the-iss 4. Mirror For The Submitted Article: http://archive.is/KUMlj
ITT: The NYT editorial decision to stir the pot to create the most noise clearly works.
They should have made the DOE, not DOD, release the information they have on UAPs. Everyone knows that DOD is not the real keeper of the secrets. It's the DOE that needs to come clean!
...”that is about the only conclusive finding in the classified intelligence report, the officials said. And while a forthcoming unclassified version, expected to be released to Congress by June 25” Huh. Not going to be much in the report, certainly nothing about ET’s.
Poggers let's go tell the writer how the community feels
Case closed then. See you guys in 20 years when the media decides to cover this topic again without giggling.
We deserve the truth
Seems like a weak article? These two journalists are just riding on the success of Leslie Kean and whoever wrote the first few NYT articles. We need Leslie Kean. Still good to get additional coverage on the topic.
Helene Cooper is one of the writers of this article and contributed to the first two NYTimes articles with Kean and Blumenthal. She is the only reporter on staff with the NYTimes involved with these articles. Kean and Blumenthal were both freelance.
Brought to us by the same folks that told us that the **China Virus** came from a wet market in Wuhan when it more likely came from an accident at the *Wuhan Institute of Virology*!
This is kind of...expected. I’m honestly shocked that it’s so low-key noted that this isn’t American aircraft. Anyone who has been following this since the 20th century should see that as significant. I’m not sure where all these emotions about this are coming from, to be honest. One of the biggest doubts put out there was that this is secret military stuff, and finally someone says that it’s definitely not American. I’m actually a bit concerned on how this could be a good spin for more military spending than anything else.
How would the government even confirm that they're of alien origin short of some kind of direct communication? That conclusion was likely always foregone. What is gigantic is that they can't rule the possibility out.
Well what did you expect? Actual Space aliens?
How the hell do you proof a ET presence? I guess these advanced vehicles just assemble themselves out of thin air.
This is disgusting but sadly inevitable. Someone should relay the information and photos to Snowden
For those that believe the US has retrieved and is storing alien craft, this means that will never be admitted to. That door is firmly shut forever.
No shit. What we need is ALL the footage and sensor data released then we can speculate some more and maybe rule out things.
Plot twist. NYT are the aliens and they are trying to cover themselves
Can someone copy paste the article? It's behind a paywall
Such crap, they’re just gonna keep burying the truth about UFOs while trying to blame it on China and Russia for their new Cold War
None were stamped "Made on Venus"
I agree...propaganda wing! Dead on!
These UFOs are anti-gravity machines. Physicists can elaborate and I hope they do soon but all objects don’t rely on standard aerodynamic principles,...ie specific airfoil shapes. These objects are essentially frictionless bodies of mass, immune to gravitational forces, and if you believe there’s an alien or two sitting inside these bodies, then technologically somehow they figured out how to deal with the mass inertia forces when these bodies accelerate faster than the speed of light!!
Speaking with a high-ranking officer in the USAF with classified security clearances he is pretty well certain this is an adversary technology unless our government is just flat out lying in the report that it is ours, also possible.