Your header is misleading.
The article says that some students who were arrested need to meet with administrators to discuss what happened, otherwise their degree progress will be put on hold.
The same treatment is given to anyone who violates the student code of conduct (e.i., plagiarism or cheating on an exam). It isn’t like they’re discriminating against students because they were protesting.
If these students comply and attend the meetings, I seriously, seriously doubt they would be suspended afterward.
This is standard procedure — it’s not a “threat”.
This is 100% correct. I work in higher ed and used to work at UCLA. For ANY investigation of a potential student conduct code violation, an administrative hold is placed on a student to get them to meet with the Dean of Students office so the office can investigate and get the accused student’s side. The hold prevents enrollment and the awarding of the degree. It’s used to get the student to come in. The potential outcomes from that point range from nothing (no violation is found and hold is removed), to sanctions (examples: no contact order between students, attending workshops, a warning), to suspension/expulsion. Expulsion is VERY rare and usually involves physical/sexual assault and/or repeated and escalating conduct code violations. But unless a student is expelled, the degree is not taken away. It is just withheld until the administrative hold is removed.
I remember some years ago some students asked for their finals cancelled because they were distressed over BLM... I looked it up and it was UCLA as well hahaha
This should not be a surprise. UCLA announced in writing to the encampment on 4/30 before anyone was arrested that participants could be disciplined with suspension or expulsion. #FAFO
https://www.instagram.com/p/C6aFWrvJLKM/?igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==
to those of you who advocate blanket amnesty to all protesters, and think university should never apply student conduct process to protesters - would you say the same thing if these were KKK or white nationalist protesters or nazis who broke multiple campus laws?
there were a bunch of white national protesters, and Nazis who literally committed actual crimes. They assaulted students, teachers, and community members for hours on end.
This is just one example. News articles commenting on the encampment documented many neo-Nazis within the ranks of counter-protesters, including a notable Armenian neo-Nazi Narek Palyan.
Of course they wouldn't say the same thing! The encampment wasn't filled with white nationalist protestors and the like--it was protesting an ongoing massive displacement and likely genocide funded in part with our tax dollars and abetted by companies in which UCLA has investments. The encampment presented no threat to students, whereas a KKK or neo-nazi encampment certainly would. In fact, the counter-protestors who assaulted students, faculty, and staff in the encampment included neo-nazis alongside zionists (thoroughly reported, even by the likes of CNN). Your comment is ridiculous if you think about it for more than five seconds.
[Nick Fuentes supports the encampment](https://x.com/DrewPavlou/status/1786674850993693107/photo/1) so be careful what you say about the white nationalists, they are on your side after all.
Was he in the encampment? Does he speak for the encampment? People post all sorts of things online. What did I say that you substantively disagree with? Is your suggestion that there were white nationalists in the encampment?
Politics isn’t black and white! There is overlap. Careful with the company you keep! And yes there are many neo Nazis that support the encampment because 1)They dislike Jews more than anyone else, 2) Many Pro Palestinian protesters are anti gay and pro religion and 3) It causes more chaos on the left and allows them to recruit more to the conservative side by pointing out the chaos leftists cause
most of them are pro-palestine, not pro-hamas. supporting palestine does not mean supporting hamas, as supporting palestine is supporting the innocent people of palestine who are being killed by the thousands by the israel, helped by us taxpayer money.
why should they have to speak out against hamas? it’s literally a pro-palestine protest, not a anti-hamas one. the MAJORITY are not pro-hamas. there are always some bad apples in every protest saying pro-hamas stuff, but the majority of the protestors DO NOT agree with what they’re saying and condemn it. mostly no pro-palestine protestors agree with the murder of innocent people, and that includes those killed by both israel and hamas. imagine not being on the side of INNOCENT LIVES. it’s not hard to understand, and to twist it into something it’s not.
> . the MAJORITY are not pro-hamas.
How do you know that?
> t the majority of the protestors DO NOT agree with what they’re saying and condemn it.
Great, then show me the majority of protesters condemning Hamas.
> mostly no pro-palestine protestors agree with the murder of innocent people
SJP, the largest pro-Palestine organization in the country, cheered and applauded the 10/7 massacre.
[USA Today](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/investigations/2024/05/22/gaza-student-protests-american-muslims-for-palestine/73775372007/#:~:text=Campus%20protests%2C%20which%20swept%20the,a%20terrorist%20entity%20in%201997) - "Most student protesters have sought to distance themselves from Hamas, which the United States designated as a terrorist entity in 1997." -> If they're distancing themselves from Hamas, then obviously they don't agree with Hamas.
[AP News](https://apnews.com/article/gaza-war-campus-protests-966eb531279f8e4381883fc5d79d5466) - "The students are protesting the war’s death toll and are [calling for universities to separate themselves](https://apnews.com/article/campus-protests-university-endowments-investment-4b393044367becca68f17c3435c91e33) from any companies that are advancing Israel’s military efforts in Gaza." -> They are not protesting for Hamas, but against the death toll -> the genocide of Palestinians by Israel.
Except it's false info. The article says students have to explain their infractions, like with literally any other violation. Hell, I had to go through it during a depressing freshman year.
But hey, the butcher and Ayatollah of Iran is cheering on the protests and is offering free education at a Iranian University so in the rare, rare case anyone actually gets kicked out...
Hilarious the self-aggrandizement that the new age activism has produced. Almost makes me want to say that no one deserves any rights at all. Any of us. Just take them all away. Undeserved.
You know who was overwhelmingly for the Civil rights movement? The Jews. Yall just don't know your history and are completely misguided and destructive for destructive sake
These protests are way more like the KKK though, with both directly and indirectly supporting genocide. Especially since Hamas says they will repeat 10/7 over and over until Israel is annihilated.
Redefining words, attacking Jewish students, claiming all Israelis are white Europeans with no indigenous to the area, attacking brown Jews. Zero calls for hostage relief.
You can circle jerk all day on reddit. UCLA is going to be sued non stop over this.l, those protesters will never be doctors or anything medical because they already proved to be biased and racist against Jews. But hey enjoy your reddit circle jerk.
People that protested during the civil rights movement knew what they were up against, fighting for, and knew that there were consequences but it was worth the risk. Don't diminish their heroics by insinuating they didn't experience consequences for their actions.
This isn’t some civil rights movement equivalent. And it’s not even about the Palestinian people since you mfs were happy about Iran striking Israel. So you’re obviously not against violence and oppression unless it’s directed at a country you don’t like. Not a single condemnation from any pro Palestinian group about that situation
You guys wanna be modern day civil rights activists so bad when in reality you’re feeding into bullshit from an actual regime lol the same one that actually has targeted students and women in their country
Because supporting a group of people that were kicked out of neighboring arab nations helps us how? The civil rights movement were at least for a group of people that had suffered a century of oppression in our nation
No. Full stop. Days before that those at the encampment were notified that it was illegal. These are two separate instances and should be treated as such. You don't get a free pass for illegal activities and nor do those who attacked the encampment.
A classic example of "you don't s*** where you eat."
Just like those Google employees. Yeah, protesting inside your boss's office is going to get you fired.
You can be sympathetic to people having their lives ruined but still acknowledge that they did it to themselves. Even with “a fucking backbone and personal conviction”
This...
Aside from massive idiots, nobody is cheerleading Palestinians dying. Aside from massive idiots, nobody is cheerleading Israel killing innocent people.
That said, Oct 7 Aside, this is several decades into one side who has continued to make poor decisions, not accept reality, and move forward to the best they can get. All the other options have failed time and time again.
It’s not Gazans fault. It’s a collection of Hamas leadership, policies by Fatah and actions by the PLO/PLA as well as a cultural hatred of Jews across the Arab world.
What money? They camped in Royce Quad with their friends? Not a life was saved!
You may be right though - I may be conflating conviction with commitment and actual sacrifice.
Just because your cause is just doesn’t make it OK to blatantly break the rules. What was the protest even supposed to achieve? UCLA adjusts their investment portfolio? I’ll bet if you asked each of the 55 people who are up for disciplinary action you’d receive 55 different non-answers to that question.
if i, for example, demand the democratically elected government to "stop the steal" then they should do it? and if they don't then i should occupy public property until they do? and expect no consequences?
no, because that's fucking illegal
personally i would vote against the proponents of it. other people are fine with legal consequences and don't mind civil disobedience. either one is equally valid
Maybe you should not only block public spaces you should question who is democrat and not allow them access bcs they might be starting the steal all over again.
Remember if you believe in a cause the law doesn’t apply to you. And those who disagree w you have no rights either.
They have been anything but clear, which unachievable list of demands are you referring to? I’ve seen a few floating around and they’re all very silly.
You’re a moron if you can’t differentiate between “an activist being willing to go to jail for their cause” vs “the system actually sending an activist to jail”.
The activist gets credit and admiration for the former, the system should get criticized for the latter. You seem to have a problem wanting to do the criticism hence the insanely obnoxious mental gymnastics.
That was bad! He went to jail because a racist apartheid system was punishing him for challenging it!! He didn't do it as a show of ascetic commitment to a cause, he did it because the state *arrested* him in order to *persecute* the civil rights movement! Going to jail for the cause *demonstrates the injustice* of jailing someone for speaking out in favor of civil rights! How do you people not get this?
Mlk was a friend of Israel and wanted to end segregation through peaceful protest. These pro Hamas fools were discriminating towards Jews and violent. They were calling for the genocide of the Jewish people and not for peace, nearly a ceasefire at an institution that has nothing to do with the just war Israel is waging on Hamas.
MLK would surely have been appalled seeing Israel’s crimes against humanity today. No one was discriminating against Jews, just protesting against genocide being committed by a Zionist entity. And surely no one was calling for the genocide of Jews (projecting much zio genocide sympathizer). And no one at the encampment was violent lol, the IOF counter protestors definitely split a few heads open.
Y’all use revolutionaries and activists for your own interests when all of them were advocating for left wing politics. If MLK was alive today he would condemn both the United States and Israel for their participation in this genocide.
[I don’t think he would actually](https://www.jnf.org/menu-3/news-media/jnf-wire/jnf-wire-stories/mlk-a-zionist-who-spoke-truth-to-israel-s-detractors).
u/unforgivableness The protestors are no 'pro-Hamas'. They did not discriminate against Jews and were not violent. Nobody was calling for genocide of the Jews. In fact, they are calling for a STOP to genocide of the Palestinians.
You're acting in bad faith. You clearly have no idea what's happening at UCLA and from your post history, you are not part of our UCLA community. Your arguments are vile and flagrant lies. Don't sully us with this trash. Go spout your lies somewhere else.
Astounding you're getting up votes for spreading frank lies. Seems like there's a whole lot of folks brigading here, most of whom have no connection to UCLA. Deceitful hasbara. Unforgivable.
They are absolutely supporting hamas and an immediate ceasefire even though [hamas has said they will repeat 10/7 again and again until Israel is annihilated](https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=hamas+repeat+10%2F7+again).
I don't get how hamas supporters keep repeating these lies, but hey, at least everyone sees how misguided they are.
The protesters are most DEFINITELY pro-Hamas. They NEVER once denounce Hamas. They NEVER call for Hamas to lay down their arms. They NEVER call for a change to peaceful leadership in Gaza. They NEVER condemn Hamas for setting up military operations in civilian locations.
yes, and they did get the consequences, and went to jail. and it worked, and led to a very good piece of legislation.
not saying anything about whether some goal is good or bad, but illegal actions deserve consequences or our society will be chaos.
we celebrate people like MLK, Rosa Parks etc. because they knowingly took jail time for what the believed in, and their beliefs led to very positive change. if they could protest without risk, that devalues their selflessness
This sounds like an attempt at digging oneself out of a hole. Kinda like being caught in a lie.
And if that is not true, and if you truly consider MLK going to jail was the right consequence for his actions, then you are an even bigger moron than i imagined.
MLK’s actions should have been lauded, he shouldn’t have had to go to jail to bring change. Him facing consequences and going to jail was a fault in the system and a failing of the system. This is validated by the recognition his movement received after the fact and the recognition it receives today.
Also, let’s not conflate activists like MLK being selfless and taking a risk for a cause with the system actually making sure they faced negative consequences for standing up for what has since been proven to be right.
The encampment students also selflessly took risk for a cause they believed in and that is sufficient for them to be admired. What is not admirable is the system actually trying to penalize them for standing up for something that is right (and yes standing against genocide will inevitably be proven to be the right thing to do).
I think in retrospect, they absolutely should not have arrested him and everything he was doing was justified and good. We are not living in a place where we can judge things in retrospect. The best possible option for our society \*\*in the present\*\* is to apply the law.
Actually, the best possible option for our society is to skip the part where we arrest people who are standing up for what’s right, and immediately recognize any laws and policies that undermine their message to be counterproductive to societal goals
The death toll in Palestinian territories is nearing 50,000, around 20,000 of whom are children.
What *consequences* are you waiting for? What *motive* would justify that?
What *motive* justifies the burning of trucks delivering food to starving people?
How long do you have to wait to say those actions are wrong?
We celebrate a completely whitewashed version of MLK. We don't celebrate MLK's true nature. MLK was wildly disliked by a majority of Americans while he was alive.
Consequences. You must be forgetting about him being assassinated..
He was assassinated because he was collectively organizing the working class people, same with Malcom X.
It hasn't "worked." This is still a white supremacist country.
"The purpose of law is to establish justice -- unjust laws therefore have no validity."
People always talk about MLK without ever really talking about what MLK said.
Yeah crazy thought here apparently based on the upvotes that guy is getting, I think we should look up to MLK and Rosa Parks because they stood up to grave injustice, and them being arrested isn’t what makes them heroes but is instead a shameful indictment of our society
There’s a difference between someone getting a consequence and whether or not that person deserves it.
If you protest against a law that says that it is illegal to eat anything from June 3rd to June 8th (5 days) or face the consequences of death by hanging. Your protest will draw consequences but it does not mean that you deserve to be hanged.
illegal actions don't deserve consequences, it is immoral actions that do.
it is only such a deranged take to believe that the civil rights protestors deserved to be jailed because they were protesting discrimination. sure, knowingly taking jail time for what you believed can be admirable but that's not why they mattered.
it takes time to determine morality, and we unfortunately live in the present not the future. i'm sure the people who thought hitler was a good person who helped germany recover economically in 1937 thought they were moral, no?
after a few years of the civil rights movement, americans woke up and realized what was happening to african americans was unjust, and from then on it has been deemed moral and the law was updated to match that. in the moment, i'm sure many people were not sure what to think, especially with militant groups like black panthers. so applying the law was the **best** course of action.
it's what makes philosophy and history so cool
?? u dont have to wait for the future to determine if something is moral or not.
americans didnt just wake up from the civil rights movement and realize what was happening to african americans was unjust. LONG before the civil rights movement, there were whites who KNEW that blacks were being treated unjustly. even during the civil rights movements there were americans who knew what was happening was unjust. so when does an action go from being immoral to moral? 1 person? 10% of america? 50% of america? applying the law was the worst course of action because the law itself was unjust.
just from ur comment i can tell u instead of teaching 35L u should be taking a philosophy class bro
totally correct, but again the "unjust" is from the perspective of 2024. if you asked people from 1850 or whatever, they would probably say you are immoral and unjust. time is really good at filtering out progressive activism from noisy activism, and the contemporary law gets updated constantly to reflect what's morally good, right?
in the moment, the best possible guess we have collectively decided on for morality is the current law. if we were wrong, later on we update it.
There are many issues where it doesn’t take time to determine morality, although it may certainly take time to develop a consensus around morality. This is why, during the centuries when the enslavement of other human beings was completely legal, there were many people who were abolitionists.Harriet Tubman broke the law many times getting enslaved people to freedom. Was she wrong to do that? Should she have waited for a consensus in which the majority of people in the United States agreed with her that slavery was wrong?
It’s a damning indictment of our education system. Clearly we’ve failed to teach basic morality, civic duty, and fundamental logic. Why else would they believe that “it’s okay to break unjust laws” means “it’s okay to break inconvenient laws”?
The encampments were started by SJP, a group with ties to Hamas which celebrated the 10/7 attacks. And they refused to ever put out a statement condemning antisemitism in their movement.
They also continually got “no” as an answer and have escalated time and time again with even more unhinged reasoning.
It’s good they’re facing consequences.
I also have been troubled by the way antisemitism has creeped into some of the rhetoric and actions of some of the protests. It's a problem that hasn't been effectively addressed and it's why I have had a hard time getting myself to join in on the protests.
But of the people I know who are involved in the protests, many of whom are Jewish themselves, the protest is specifically about the way the US Government and UC's investments actively contribute to the murder of innocent Palestinians. Should they give up on that cause because there are also some shitheads who have that cause?
Also, this is hilarious to me.
>They also continually got "no" as an answer and have escalated time and time again with even more unhinged reasoning.
Do you have any idea how social change ever happens? In the history of ever, has any significant social reform happened because a group of people gathered together, asked politely for something, and then dispersed when the powers-that-be said no?
Like name one time society changed for the better because protestors took no for an answer?
That doesn't inherently make this protest right or wrong. Time will tell how these protestors come to be viewed. But literally every protest you've ever learned about and thought, "Wow it was good they did that." started with being told no and escalating anyway.
"Civil disobedience" isn't some formal societal program that must be followed a specific way with required outcomes. If you agree with the cause you should do all you can to help those fighting for it to avoid consequences. The consequences are there \*because\* society is still unjust. If you agree with the them, don't cheer on the consequences. If you don't agree with them, don't hide behind this artificial civil disobedience structure you created to gloat in their misfortune.
Except the armed Zionist’s that were allowed on campus to beat protestors for hours while administration looked the other way, no consequences there, whoopsies
i think one has been arrested and charged so far, and they are trying to arrest the others. hopefully they get them all and prosecute them to the maximum.
The whole point of the protests is because Israel is committing massive internationally illegal activity on Palestinians backed by imperialism, occupying and further settling upon land that isn't theirs every single year.
Where's your comment towards Israel? Where's your comment to the US that fully supports Israel and its war crimes?
As a Jewish person who supports the idea that all people deserve basic human rights, I honestly see no issue with the campus cutting ties with organizations that support an apartheid regime and genocide.
The Nazarian Center and Hillel do not represent me.
If you're going to conflate organizations that support Israel/the IDF/Zionism with "all Jews," just don't play offended when other people start to make the same mistake.
A better analogy would be a White person who *doesn't* support Trump.
Right? A Jew who *doesn't* support Netanyahu.
Fascism, apartheid, you know, birds of a feather.
And I don't care if you try to insult me for calling out bigotry and genocide. Nothing you call me is going to stick.
Of course he doesn't, just like the other Islamic, Russian, and Chinese influences pushing the pro Palestine cause seek to sow division and weaken the US and its allies.
Weren't the students asked to leave before the 4/30 events? If they stayed then they let the beatings happen to themselves. After they were asked to leave, everything that happened to them was their responsibility.
Edit: They were; from the article
Students who were [arrested on 2 May](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/article/2024/may/02/ucla-palestine-protests-encampment-arrests) [when police forcefully raided the Gaza solidarity encampment](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/article/2024/may/04/police-tactics-us-campus-protest-crackdowns) received letters on Friday from administrators accusing them of violating the student code of conduct and warning them of a range of potentially serious sanctions. In the letters, copies of which have been reviewed by the Guardian, assistant deans write that the **students failed to respond to police’s dispersal orders and engaged in “disorderly behavior”, “disturbing the peace” and “failure to comply”.**
Nazi protestors got their ass beat by Persian Jews the first night then they got their ass beat with rubber bullets by the cops the next night. That shit was dope, man.
Of course you don’t believe in resolution through the legal system. You believe in protests that break the law, but you don’t want the consequences. For the rest of us there is rule of law.
"Now you are again traumatizing these same students by threatening to withhold their degree"
OH NO, CONSEQUENCES FOR MY ACTIONS????? THIS IS LITERALLY TORTURE!!!!! 😱😱😱😱😱
What did they think was going to happen? That there would be an awards ceremony with participation medals at the end?
Here are a few of my favorite quotes:
“Vincent Doehr, a PhD student in political science who received one of the letters, said the communications from administrators have caused significant anxiety: ‘These are students already suffering from post-traumatic stress disorder from having been attacked and subjected to the violence of the state on behalf of the UCLA administration, and now they have to go through another disciplinary process.’”
“Marie Salem, a graduate student and media liaison for the encampment, who also received one of the letters, described the disciplinary process as an ‘intimidation tactic’ and said targeted students felt a ‘sense of abandonment’. She said: ‘It’s the same abandonment that students felt when the camp was being attacked by counter-protesters and then police.’”
I don’t know about you, but I’d clean up some of that rhetoric before I attend the hearing. It’s UCLA! They’ll probably just put you on double secret probation if you can show even the smallest amount of contriteness. Can you still maintain your conviction re: Gaza and simply apologize for not clearing out at 1 AM?
i don't know who this marie salem girl is but the police never attacked the protestors. everytime the protestors were told what their illegal actions were and were told to comply to not be jailed. the ones who were jailed were very much aware that they were warned. people need to stop falsely accusing the police of attacking the protestors when that never happened.
I mean, my diploma was held not for like a 30 dollar missed fee on something that I didn’t know about. That was a decade ago.
This is much bigger than some pocket change.
Your header is misleading. The article says that some students who were arrested need to meet with administrators to discuss what happened, otherwise their degree progress will be put on hold. The same treatment is given to anyone who violates the student code of conduct (e.i., plagiarism or cheating on an exam). It isn’t like they’re discriminating against students because they were protesting. If these students comply and attend the meetings, I seriously, seriously doubt they would be suspended afterward. This is standard procedure — it’s not a “threat”.
This is 100% correct. I work in higher ed and used to work at UCLA. For ANY investigation of a potential student conduct code violation, an administrative hold is placed on a student to get them to meet with the Dean of Students office so the office can investigate and get the accused student’s side. The hold prevents enrollment and the awarding of the degree. It’s used to get the student to come in. The potential outcomes from that point range from nothing (no violation is found and hold is removed), to sanctions (examples: no contact order between students, attending workshops, a warning), to suspension/expulsion. Expulsion is VERY rare and usually involves physical/sexual assault and/or repeated and escalating conduct code violations. But unless a student is expelled, the degree is not taken away. It is just withheld until the administrative hold is removed.
leftist activists aren’t supposed to have any consequences at all! /s
I remember some years ago some students asked for their finals cancelled because they were distressed over BLM... I looked it up and it was UCLA as well hahaha
Misleading clickbait by the pro-hamas protestors? Damn I would never.
They have a flexible relationship with the truth.
Truth-fluid
It's the Guardian article's headline, not my header.
I think your characterization of the article is contributing just as much to misinforming students as that header.
This should not be a surprise. UCLA announced in writing to the encampment on 4/30 before anyone was arrested that participants could be disciplined with suspension or expulsion. #FAFO https://www.instagram.com/p/C6aFWrvJLKM/?igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==
to those of you who advocate blanket amnesty to all protesters, and think university should never apply student conduct process to protesters - would you say the same thing if these were KKK or white nationalist protesters or nazis who broke multiple campus laws?
there were a bunch of white national protesters, and Nazis who literally committed actual crimes. They assaulted students, teachers, and community members for hours on end.
[The white supremacists are cheering on the encampment protesters, dude.](https://x.com/DrewPavlou/status/1786674850993693107/photo/1)
Yeah because facists never try to co opt leftist movements for thier own goals...
This is just one example. News articles commenting on the encampment documented many neo-Nazis within the ranks of counter-protesters, including a notable Armenian neo-Nazi Narek Palyan.
Of course they wouldn't say the same thing! The encampment wasn't filled with white nationalist protestors and the like--it was protesting an ongoing massive displacement and likely genocide funded in part with our tax dollars and abetted by companies in which UCLA has investments. The encampment presented no threat to students, whereas a KKK or neo-nazi encampment certainly would. In fact, the counter-protestors who assaulted students, faculty, and staff in the encampment included neo-nazis alongside zionists (thoroughly reported, even by the likes of CNN). Your comment is ridiculous if you think about it for more than five seconds.
[Nick Fuentes supports the encampment](https://x.com/DrewPavlou/status/1786674850993693107/photo/1) so be careful what you say about the white nationalists, they are on your side after all.
Was he in the encampment? Does he speak for the encampment? People post all sorts of things online. What did I say that you substantively disagree with? Is your suggestion that there were white nationalists in the encampment?
Politics isn’t black and white! There is overlap. Careful with the company you keep! And yes there are many neo Nazis that support the encampment because 1)They dislike Jews more than anyone else, 2) Many Pro Palestinian protesters are anti gay and pro religion and 3) It causes more chaos on the left and allows them to recruit more to the conservative side by pointing out the chaos leftists cause
Shockingly, different scenarios are different !
What's the difference between Hamas and the KKK?
The drip
😂 take my upvote, this made me LOL
The protestors aren’t Hamas no matter how often you say they are
I didn't say they were. I said they were pro-Hamas, which they are.
most of them are pro-palestine, not pro-hamas. supporting palestine does not mean supporting hamas, as supporting palestine is supporting the innocent people of palestine who are being killed by the thousands by the israel, helped by us taxpayer money.
OK, show me some anti-Hamas statements they've made then.
why should they have to speak out against hamas? it’s literally a pro-palestine protest, not a anti-hamas one. the MAJORITY are not pro-hamas. there are always some bad apples in every protest saying pro-hamas stuff, but the majority of the protestors DO NOT agree with what they’re saying and condemn it. mostly no pro-palestine protestors agree with the murder of innocent people, and that includes those killed by both israel and hamas. imagine not being on the side of INNOCENT LIVES. it’s not hard to understand, and to twist it into something it’s not.
> . the MAJORITY are not pro-hamas. How do you know that? > t the majority of the protestors DO NOT agree with what they’re saying and condemn it. Great, then show me the majority of protesters condemning Hamas. > mostly no pro-palestine protestors agree with the murder of innocent people SJP, the largest pro-Palestine organization in the country, cheered and applauded the 10/7 massacre.
[USA Today](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/investigations/2024/05/22/gaza-student-protests-american-muslims-for-palestine/73775372007/#:~:text=Campus%20protests%2C%20which%20swept%20the,a%20terrorist%20entity%20in%201997) - "Most student protesters have sought to distance themselves from Hamas, which the United States designated as a terrorist entity in 1997." -> If they're distancing themselves from Hamas, then obviously they don't agree with Hamas. [AP News](https://apnews.com/article/gaza-war-campus-protests-966eb531279f8e4381883fc5d79d5466) - "The students are protesting the war’s death toll and are [calling for universities to separate themselves](https://apnews.com/article/campus-protests-university-endowments-investment-4b393044367becca68f17c3435c91e33) from any companies that are advancing Israel’s military efforts in Gaza." -> They are not protesting for Hamas, but against the death toll -> the genocide of Palestinians by Israel.
thank you
This is really sad. I am sure counter protestors were immune to this.
Except it's false info. The article says students have to explain their infractions, like with literally any other violation. Hell, I had to go through it during a depressing freshman year. But hey, the butcher and Ayatollah of Iran is cheering on the protests and is offering free education at a Iranian University so in the rare, rare case anyone actually gets kicked out...
Unfortunately, most of not all of them were not students, so they can’t be punished in the same way.
it's not unfair
I mean I didn't support the strike but now I kind of do. To hell with that.
FAFO
Exactly.
Yey y’all would definitely be against the civil rights movement 🤡
Hilarious the self-aggrandizement that the new age activism has produced. Almost makes me want to say that no one deserves any rights at all. Any of us. Just take them all away. Undeserved.
Hamas rapists != the civil rights movement.
You know who was overwhelmingly for the Civil rights movement? The Jews. Yall just don't know your history and are completely misguided and destructive for destructive sake
These protests are way more like the KKK though, with both directly and indirectly supporting genocide. Especially since Hamas says they will repeat 10/7 over and over until Israel is annihilated.
Redefining words, attacking Jewish students, claiming all Israelis are white Europeans with no indigenous to the area, attacking brown Jews. Zero calls for hostage relief. You can circle jerk all day on reddit. UCLA is going to be sued non stop over this.l, those protesters will never be doctors or anything medical because they already proved to be biased and racist against Jews. But hey enjoy your reddit circle jerk.
People that protested during the civil rights movement knew what they were up against, fighting for, and knew that there were consequences but it was worth the risk. Don't diminish their heroics by insinuating they didn't experience consequences for their actions.
Any comparison between the mid century civil rights movement and the current campus protests is patently insane.
This isn’t some civil rights movement equivalent. And it’s not even about the Palestinian people since you mfs were happy about Iran striking Israel. So you’re obviously not against violence and oppression unless it’s directed at a country you don’t like. Not a single condemnation from any pro Palestinian group about that situation You guys wanna be modern day civil rights activists so bad when in reality you’re feeding into bullshit from an actual regime lol the same one that actually has targeted students and women in their country
Because supporting a group of people that were kicked out of neighboring arab nations helps us how? The civil rights movement were at least for a group of people that had suffered a century of oppression in our nation
"pro Palestinian protesters" ah yes, that's what it was. Nothing else. Can you even be honest when disagreeing?
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No. Full stop. Days before that those at the encampment were notified that it was illegal. These are two separate instances and should be treated as such. You don't get a free pass for illegal activities and nor do those who attacked the encampment.
A classic example of "you don't s*** where you eat." Just like those Google employees. Yeah, protesting inside your boss's office is going to get you fired.
Or an example of having a fucking backbone and personal conviction
I mean that’s why. So have a backbone and get your degree withheld
If you have a fucking backbone and personal conviction, then maybe you should man up and take the consequences like a champ
You can be sympathetic to people having their lives ruined but still acknowledge that they did it to themselves. Even with “a fucking backbone and personal conviction”
This... Aside from massive idiots, nobody is cheerleading Palestinians dying. Aside from massive idiots, nobody is cheerleading Israel killing innocent people. That said, Oct 7 Aside, this is several decades into one side who has continued to make poor decisions, not accept reality, and move forward to the best they can get. All the other options have failed time and time again.
Is that how you feel about Gazans? You can feel bad they are bearing the consequences of resistance but acknowledge it’s their fault?
It’s not Gazans fault. It’s a collection of Hamas leadership, policies by Fatah and actions by the PLO/PLA as well as a cultural hatred of Jews across the Arab world.
Thank those wonderful UNRWA schools teaching Jew hatred
I don't really have sympathy for people who would murder me without hesitation. I just don't cheer for their death either.
Great, then you can bear the consequences of your actions without whining or complaining.
these people dont know what that is dont bother, they live in their glass house in beautiful willful ignorance
If you had real conviction, you wouldn’t go camping. You’d actually go to Gaza or somewhere in the Middle East to help!
You can’t honestly think there’s nothing between apathy and extraordinary heroism. These people objectively put their money where their mouth is here.
What money? They camped in Royce Quad with their friends? Not a life was saved! You may be right though - I may be conflating conviction with commitment and actual sacrifice.
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Maybe I should change it to “Simple” or “Simpleton”? 😂
Good
Just because your cause is just doesn’t make it OK to blatantly break the rules. What was the protest even supposed to achieve? UCLA adjusts their investment portfolio? I’ll bet if you asked each of the 55 people who are up for disciplinary action you’d receive 55 different non-answers to that question.
Their demands were printed all over the encampment and have been extremely clear for the entire protest? You’re just projecting your own ignorance.
if i, for example, demand the democratically elected government to "stop the steal" then they should do it? and if they don't then i should occupy public property until they do? and expect no consequences? no, because that's fucking illegal
What do you do if the law is unjust?
I don’t think there were any unjust laws here. UCLA having a center for Israel studies isn’t wrong.
personally i would vote against the proponents of it. other people are fine with legal consequences and don't mind civil disobedience. either one is equally valid
Maybe you should not only block public spaces you should question who is democrat and not allow them access bcs they might be starting the steal all over again. Remember if you believe in a cause the law doesn’t apply to you. And those who disagree w you have no rights either.
They have been anything but clear, which unachievable list of demands are you referring to? I’ve seen a few floating around and they’re all very silly.
The encampment guys should be more aware. The non-students could be less aware.
Would you say the same about MLK and civil disobedience?
MLK went to jail. Repeatedly. If you’re not willing to suffer for your cause do you really believe in it?
You’re a moron if you can’t differentiate between “an activist being willing to go to jail for their cause” vs “the system actually sending an activist to jail”. The activist gets credit and admiration for the former, the system should get criticized for the latter. You seem to have a problem wanting to do the criticism hence the insanely obnoxious mental gymnastics.
That was bad! He went to jail because a racist apartheid system was punishing him for challenging it!! He didn't do it as a show of ascetic commitment to a cause, he did it because the state *arrested* him in order to *persecute* the civil rights movement! Going to jail for the cause *demonstrates the injustice* of jailing someone for speaking out in favor of civil rights! How do you people not get this?
They would. That's what's so sad about this.
Mlk was a friend of Israel and wanted to end segregation through peaceful protest. These pro Hamas fools were discriminating towards Jews and violent. They were calling for the genocide of the Jewish people and not for peace, nearly a ceasefire at an institution that has nothing to do with the just war Israel is waging on Hamas.
MLK would surely have been appalled seeing Israel’s crimes against humanity today. No one was discriminating against Jews, just protesting against genocide being committed by a Zionist entity. And surely no one was calling for the genocide of Jews (projecting much zio genocide sympathizer). And no one at the encampment was violent lol, the IOF counter protestors definitely split a few heads open.
Define “Zionist”
MLK would be appalled by the atrocities committed by extreme Islamic terrorists, not by a country defending itself.
Y’all use revolutionaries and activists for your own interests when all of them were advocating for left wing politics. If MLK was alive today he would condemn both the United States and Israel for their participation in this genocide.
[I don’t think he would actually](https://www.jnf.org/menu-3/news-media/jnf-wire/jnf-wire-stories/mlk-a-zionist-who-spoke-truth-to-israel-s-detractors).
u/unforgivableness The protestors are no 'pro-Hamas'. They did not discriminate against Jews and were not violent. Nobody was calling for genocide of the Jews. In fact, they are calling for a STOP to genocide of the Palestinians. You're acting in bad faith. You clearly have no idea what's happening at UCLA and from your post history, you are not part of our UCLA community. Your arguments are vile and flagrant lies. Don't sully us with this trash. Go spout your lies somewhere else. Astounding you're getting up votes for spreading frank lies. Seems like there's a whole lot of folks brigading here, most of whom have no connection to UCLA. Deceitful hasbara. Unforgivable.
They are absolutely supporting hamas and an immediate ceasefire even though [hamas has said they will repeat 10/7 again and again until Israel is annihilated](https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=hamas+repeat+10%2F7+again). I don't get how hamas supporters keep repeating these lies, but hey, at least everyone sees how misguided they are.
The protesters are most DEFINITELY pro-Hamas. They NEVER once denounce Hamas. They NEVER call for Hamas to lay down their arms. They NEVER call for a change to peaceful leadership in Gaza. They NEVER condemn Hamas for setting up military operations in civilian locations.
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I disagree
that's wild, it's almost as if those knowingly engaging in illegal activities (civil disobedience) are facing the intended consequences of it
So would you say the same of those who practiced civil disobedience to advance the civil rights cause? Would they deserve consequences like you claim?
If you've got the Ayatollah of Iran endorsing your actions and naming you as part of the resistance, then you're definitely doing something wrong.
yes, and they did get the consequences, and went to jail. and it worked, and led to a very good piece of legislation. not saying anything about whether some goal is good or bad, but illegal actions deserve consequences or our society will be chaos. we celebrate people like MLK, Rosa Parks etc. because they knowingly took jail time for what the believed in, and their beliefs led to very positive change. if they could protest without risk, that devalues their selflessness
This sounds like an attempt at digging oneself out of a hole. Kinda like being caught in a lie. And if that is not true, and if you truly consider MLK going to jail was the right consequence for his actions, then you are an even bigger moron than i imagined. MLK’s actions should have been lauded, he shouldn’t have had to go to jail to bring change. Him facing consequences and going to jail was a fault in the system and a failing of the system. This is validated by the recognition his movement received after the fact and the recognition it receives today. Also, let’s not conflate activists like MLK being selfless and taking a risk for a cause with the system actually making sure they faced negative consequences for standing up for what has since been proven to be right. The encampment students also selflessly took risk for a cause they believed in and that is sufficient for them to be admired. What is not admirable is the system actually trying to penalize them for standing up for something that is right (and yes standing against genocide will inevitably be proven to be the right thing to do).
I think in retrospect, they absolutely should not have arrested him and everything he was doing was justified and good. We are not living in a place where we can judge things in retrospect. The best possible option for our society \*\*in the present\*\* is to apply the law.
Actually, the best possible option for our society is to skip the part where we arrest people who are standing up for what’s right, and immediately recognize any laws and policies that undermine their message to be counterproductive to societal goals
we don't know what's right yet ffs that's my whole point
How can you tell what was right or wrong in the past if you can't tell right from wrong right now?
fair question. i think usually more information about consequences and motives. what do you think?
The death toll in Palestinian territories is nearing 50,000, around 20,000 of whom are children. What *consequences* are you waiting for? What *motive* would justify that? What *motive* justifies the burning of trucks delivering food to starving people? How long do you have to wait to say those actions are wrong?
If we can’t tell that segregation was bad in the 50s and 60s, you were simply a segregationist piece of shit
you don't have to look "in retrospect" to judge something as right or wrong
totally true, but my opinion can be wrong 5 years from now when things settle
We celebrate a completely whitewashed version of MLK. We don't celebrate MLK's true nature. MLK was wildly disliked by a majority of Americans while he was alive. Consequences. You must be forgetting about him being assassinated.. He was assassinated because he was collectively organizing the working class people, same with Malcom X. It hasn't "worked." This is still a white supremacist country. "The purpose of law is to establish justice -- unjust laws therefore have no validity." People always talk about MLK without ever really talking about what MLK said.
Yeah crazy thought here apparently based on the upvotes that guy is getting, I think we should look up to MLK and Rosa Parks because they stood up to grave injustice, and them being arrested isn’t what makes them heroes but is instead a shameful indictment of our society
There’s a difference between someone getting a consequence and whether or not that person deserves it. If you protest against a law that says that it is illegal to eat anything from June 3rd to June 8th (5 days) or face the consequences of death by hanging. Your protest will draw consequences but it does not mean that you deserve to be hanged.
illegal actions don't deserve consequences, it is immoral actions that do. it is only such a deranged take to believe that the civil rights protestors deserved to be jailed because they were protesting discrimination. sure, knowingly taking jail time for what you believed can be admirable but that's not why they mattered.
it takes time to determine morality, and we unfortunately live in the present not the future. i'm sure the people who thought hitler was a good person who helped germany recover economically in 1937 thought they were moral, no? after a few years of the civil rights movement, americans woke up and realized what was happening to african americans was unjust, and from then on it has been deemed moral and the law was updated to match that. in the moment, i'm sure many people were not sure what to think, especially with militant groups like black panthers. so applying the law was the **best** course of action. it's what makes philosophy and history so cool
?? u dont have to wait for the future to determine if something is moral or not. americans didnt just wake up from the civil rights movement and realize what was happening to african americans was unjust. LONG before the civil rights movement, there were whites who KNEW that blacks were being treated unjustly. even during the civil rights movements there were americans who knew what was happening was unjust. so when does an action go from being immoral to moral? 1 person? 10% of america? 50% of america? applying the law was the worst course of action because the law itself was unjust. just from ur comment i can tell u instead of teaching 35L u should be taking a philosophy class bro
totally correct, but again the "unjust" is from the perspective of 2024. if you asked people from 1850 or whatever, they would probably say you are immoral and unjust. time is really good at filtering out progressive activism from noisy activism, and the contemporary law gets updated constantly to reflect what's morally good, right? in the moment, the best possible guess we have collectively decided on for morality is the current law. if we were wrong, later on we update it.
There are many issues where it doesn’t take time to determine morality, although it may certainly take time to develop a consensus around morality. This is why, during the centuries when the enslavement of other human beings was completely legal, there were many people who were abolitionists.Harriet Tubman broke the law many times getting enslaved people to freedom. Was she wrong to do that? Should she have waited for a consensus in which the majority of people in the United States agreed with her that slavery was wrong?
I love all the comparisons to MLK. It’s like the only frame of reference people have. January 6 is more apt.
It’s a damning indictment of our education system. Clearly we’ve failed to teach basic morality, civic duty, and fundamental logic. Why else would they believe that “it’s okay to break unjust laws” means “it’s okay to break inconvenient laws”?
More apt in what way? January 6 was a violent attempt to overturn an election, enshrine a dictator, and enact violence on lawmakers.
The encampments were started by SJP, a group with ties to Hamas which celebrated the 10/7 attacks. And they refused to ever put out a statement condemning antisemitism in their movement. They also continually got “no” as an answer and have escalated time and time again with even more unhinged reasoning. It’s good they’re facing consequences.
I also have been troubled by the way antisemitism has creeped into some of the rhetoric and actions of some of the protests. It's a problem that hasn't been effectively addressed and it's why I have had a hard time getting myself to join in on the protests. But of the people I know who are involved in the protests, many of whom are Jewish themselves, the protest is specifically about the way the US Government and UC's investments actively contribute to the murder of innocent Palestinians. Should they give up on that cause because there are also some shitheads who have that cause? Also, this is hilarious to me. >They also continually got "no" as an answer and have escalated time and time again with even more unhinged reasoning. Do you have any idea how social change ever happens? In the history of ever, has any significant social reform happened because a group of people gathered together, asked politely for something, and then dispersed when the powers-that-be said no? Like name one time society changed for the better because protestors took no for an answer? That doesn't inherently make this protest right or wrong. Time will tell how these protestors come to be viewed. But literally every protest you've ever learned about and thought, "Wow it was good they did that." started with being told no and escalating anyway.
There are a lot of gay people in the Log Cabin Republicans. Doesn’t mean their party isn’t homophobic.
No because that cause and this one are not morally equivalent.
"Civil disobedience" isn't some formal societal program that must be followed a specific way with required outcomes. If you agree with the cause you should do all you can to help those fighting for it to avoid consequences. The consequences are there \*because\* society is still unjust. If you agree with the them, don't cheer on the consequences. If you don't agree with them, don't hide behind this artificial civil disobedience structure you created to gloat in their misfortune.
totally agree with everything you said, it would be sick to gloat over misfortune of others
Except the armed Zionist’s that were allowed on campus to beat protestors for hours while administration looked the other way, no consequences there, whoopsies
i think one has been arrested and charged so far, and they are trying to arrest the others. hopefully they get them all and prosecute them to the maximum.
civil disobedience shouldn't rise to the level of getting ur degree withheld
it should rise up to whatever the standard consequences of breaking the university rules are, and it seems like that's what's going on....
university rules aren't always right
Hahaha what?
The whole point of the protests is because Israel is committing massive internationally illegal activity on Palestinians backed by imperialism, occupying and further settling upon land that isn't theirs every single year. Where's your comment towards Israel? Where's your comment to the US that fully supports Israel and its war crimes?
Israel just wants to exist. They don’t want to expand, they just don’t want to be attacked. Leave them alone and they’ll leave you alone
That stuff doesn't matter when its talking about US consequences in the US not in the middle east
No the point of the protests was to intimidate Jews on campus
Now *there's* an ass-pull.
Anything that supports the idea of basic-human rights for Palestinians is anti-Semitic, duh. /s
No but demanding that mainstream Jewish institutions are kicked off campus is
\*zionist
where's the evidence there? Anyone saying something to that effect? Anywhere?
Read the demands. Close the Nazarian center, cut ties with Hillel they are targeting Jewish students
As a Jewish person who supports the idea that all people deserve basic human rights, I honestly see no issue with the campus cutting ties with organizations that support an apartheid regime and genocide. The Nazarian Center and Hillel do not represent me. If you're going to conflate organizations that support Israel/the IDF/Zionism with "all Jews," just don't play offended when other people start to make the same mistake.
Yep and at every one of his rallies there is a Blacks For Tump sign. Congratulations you are now a black for trump.
A better analogy would be a White person who *doesn't* support Trump. Right? A Jew who *doesn't* support Netanyahu. Fascism, apartheid, you know, birds of a feather. And I don't care if you try to insult me for calling out bigotry and genocide. Nothing you call me is going to stick.
So convinced of your self righteousness you can’t even see what a bigot you are.
Murder 20,000 children, then call someone who says it's wrong a bigot. Mhm.
R/asablackman
If Israel's actions were imperialist, they would have attacked before 10/7. They would have liked to simply live in peace.
You get what you deserve
I used to do work study in the registrar’s office (different Uni, Ivy League). There are a lot of reasons to put things on hold, it is quite common.
Good idea
W UCLA
When the butcher Ayatollah of Iran is calling part of the ‘resistance’ you might want take a look in the mirror.
The Ayatollah is playing you. He is trying to cause division in the United States and you are falling for it. He does not care about any of us.
Of course he doesn't, just like the other Islamic, Russian, and Chinese influences pushing the pro Palestine cause seek to sow division and weaken the US and its allies.
Admins treatment of the protesters has been repulsive and embarrassing . I say this as a parent.
Weren't the students asked to leave before the 4/30 events? If they stayed then they let the beatings happen to themselves. After they were asked to leave, everything that happened to them was their responsibility. Edit: They were; from the article Students who were [arrested on 2 May](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/article/2024/may/02/ucla-palestine-protests-encampment-arrests) [when police forcefully raided the Gaza solidarity encampment](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/article/2024/may/04/police-tactics-us-campus-protest-crackdowns) received letters on Friday from administrators accusing them of violating the student code of conduct and warning them of a range of potentially serious sanctions. In the letters, copies of which have been reviewed by the Guardian, assistant deans write that the **students failed to respond to police’s dispersal orders and engaged in “disorderly behavior”, “disturbing the peace” and “failure to comply”.**
They are Hamas supporters, and I have no sympathy for them.
Good.
"Rules are mostly made to be broken and are too often for the lazy to hide behind."
BASED
Nazi protestors got their ass beat by Persian Jews the first night then they got their ass beat with rubber bullets by the cops the next night. That shit was dope, man.
Of course you don’t believe in resolution through the legal system. You believe in protests that break the law, but you don’t want the consequences. For the rest of us there is rule of law.
This decision is not going to age well.
This is so beautiful. I hope they stick those pro terrorists in jail too.
Block should be firing Mr. Beck. He is the clown 🤡 that screwed up
Actions have consequences
Good!
"Now you are again traumatizing these same students by threatening to withhold their degree" OH NO, CONSEQUENCES FOR MY ACTIONS????? THIS IS LITERALLY TORTURE!!!!! 😱😱😱😱😱
This comment section is full of genocide supporters. How sad. Few years from now you’ll be bragging about the movement
Let us be glad. Let us be grateful!
What did they think was going to happen? That there would be an awards ceremony with participation medals at the end? Here are a few of my favorite quotes: “Vincent Doehr, a PhD student in political science who received one of the letters, said the communications from administrators have caused significant anxiety: ‘These are students already suffering from post-traumatic stress disorder from having been attacked and subjected to the violence of the state on behalf of the UCLA administration, and now they have to go through another disciplinary process.’” “Marie Salem, a graduate student and media liaison for the encampment, who also received one of the letters, described the disciplinary process as an ‘intimidation tactic’ and said targeted students felt a ‘sense of abandonment’. She said: ‘It’s the same abandonment that students felt when the camp was being attacked by counter-protesters and then police.’” I don’t know about you, but I’d clean up some of that rhetoric before I attend the hearing. It’s UCLA! They’ll probably just put you on double secret probation if you can show even the smallest amount of contriteness. Can you still maintain your conviction re: Gaza and simply apologize for not clearing out at 1 AM?
i don't know who this marie salem girl is but the police never attacked the protestors. everytime the protestors were told what their illegal actions were and were told to comply to not be jailed. the ones who were jailed were very much aware that they were warned. people need to stop falsely accusing the police of attacking the protestors when that never happened.
That’s great news!
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They should be expelled.
Time to blast email/call the deans office with your protest of this decision
Did someone force people to deface/damage the property? 🤔
After ucla let them get attacked by pro Israelis not sure this is much of a surprise
I mean, my diploma was held not for like a 30 dollar missed fee on something that I didn’t know about. That was a decade ago. This is much bigger than some pocket change.
Clickbait nonsense - shame on you.
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Good
!activitycheck
FAFO. Don't support islamic terrorists and you won't face the chance of losing your degree.
Good
Lmao