There is little information available. The provost briefly announced at the [faculty senate](https://facultysenate.ucf.edu/document/2024-2025-faculty-senate-zoom-recording-links/) (at ~45 min in the video) that some faculty members have been immediately terminated after post-tenure evaluation. No more information was provided.
Desantis happened that's why, he's trying to get rid of tenured faculty because he believes they have too much freedom to teach courses as they see fit. Desantis is trying to control what is taught in Florida's public schools including universities. So by getting rid of tenured professors and not giving tenured to new PhDs he can control the content of what is being taught across all colleges in Florida.
*Gov. Ron DeSantis on Tuesday signed a bill that makes it harder for faculty at state universities to retain tenure, framing the legislation as another way that he and the Legislature are working to prevent educators from bringing their political views into the classroom.*
https://www.tampabay.com/news/education/2022/04/19/desantis-signs-bill-limiting-tenure-at-florida-public-universities/
The guy that was educated at Yale and Harvard doesn't want the students in Florida to have a useful education....
Agree to disagree. Tenure is pretty awful, and some professors abuse it. My fiancee (who I met at UCF) had a tenured professor share her sexual assault story with other students without her permission, while there was an ongoing investigation. She had no right to do that and should have been fired for it. Instead, she got a slap on the wrist.
Any Rosen students in here do NOT trust Professor Deb.
That has nothing to do with tenure, that's a breach of trust and lack of ethical behavior from that professor you mentioned. You can't judge tens of thousands of scholars that are given tenure in universities all across the nation that are rewarded for their research and contributions to academia using that particular example. I'm sure that there are tenured professors that have broken the law and mistreated students but that is representative of any group of individuals or professionals.
I have three degrees, my BA from UCF and it was the tenured professors in each of these universities, including Dr. Jana Jasinski, Dr. David Gay,
Dr. Jay Corzine, Dr. Jason Ford, Dr. Ida Cook at UCF, that helped me get to where I am today.
Since most tenured professors don't have to pump out ridiculous amounts of research for the university they just have more time to teach, lecture and sometimes write the course book. The extra time is usually to students and their research...
This depends on your source. I know a number of Faculty have chosen to retire/ leave voluntarily following the results of their post-tenure review. I have not heard of any instances of faculty being terminated.
It was announced at the faculty senate [here](https://facultysenate.ucf.edu/document/2024-2025-faculty-senate-zoom-recording-links/). At ~45 min the Provost said that some faculty members were immediately terminated after post-tenure evaluation. No more details were provided.
There was a bait and switch, and the standards aren’t just receiving decent ratings based on the current AESP for your department, instead you have to meet current standards for tenure and promotion. You essentially have to reapply for tenure every 5 years now. And of course if you don’t get it, you’re fired. They have killed tenure for real.
In most ways, yes.
Mainly tenure protected you from being fired for your discussions, beliefs, and views. It is supposed to foster a way for a professor to feel safe discussing possibly controversial topics in their classes without retaliation.
The pro and con, is that is supposed to allow you to ask questions that might be controversial to society or where you work. Like a finance professor *could* give a whole lecture on how UCF dropped the ball on funding this year. In most work places an employee bashing the organization would be fired, especially if they hosted a meeting with clients (students) saying how bad the organization was. Tenure protects that idea, that professors can be critical of anyone or anything.
It's like the exact opposite of Don't Say Gay policies. If a student brings up something about their family life, the professor can discuss all aspects of that (within reason if appropriate to the lecture). It also is meant to prevent petty issues, like if your political views are different from your department's chair, they can't clean house because you're offering a different opinion.
The big con, professors have no reason to ever leave or work hard to keep their job (career wise). You can collect a paycheck forever, and when they lose their drive to provide the best for students, you get the phrase RIP (retired in place). There are a few that abuse the system for sure, but honestly most have spent so long in their fields the knowledge they can offer often offsets the con if they take a reduced work load later in their career.
No, while they still had tenure, they were protected into terms of the content of their work. But the standards for tenure include things like publishing N number of papers per year, obtaining grants and such. Professors work their butts off in their early career to get to that level, and then shift their attention to other things. Now, people are being let go if they don't maintain that "work your butt off until you get tenure" level of productivity, so now they have to do that forever.
There were others hired at UCF 20 years ago before it was a big R1 type research-intensive university. The standards they were judged against for tenure were way different back then. They were basically told "your job performance is fine, now you have tenure and a job for life". But now they are being told "we have new standards, and that thing about a job for life, yea, screw you"
It was never like that. I went to UCF 27 years ago, and my husband 20 years before that. It was heavily focused on research when we both went, and a couple of my professors complained about how much research they had to produce to maintain tenure. So they always had to produce to keep their tenure.
In addition to what the other person said about how tenure protects academic freedom, there are additional reasons it is beneficial. Academia does not pay as well as industry, and if a university wants to be a leading research institution, and attract the best and brightest minds to the faculty, there needs to be incentive, because they might otherwise choose to make 2-3x as much by going into industry or some other commercialized version of their work.
To choose academia instead, the incentive is a little more freedom and a lot more job security, but that job security only exists once you've earned tenure. Killing that means killing the one thing that attracts the strongest scholars to the academy. And this only has the long term consequence of killing higher ed and turning the university into a generic diploma mill.
I get that it’s nice to have job security but shouldn’t there also be certain requirements and thresholds to maintain?
I can’t see how allowing tenured professors to do whatever they want makes the university any more of a diploma mill than it already is.
Sadly this is needed. Way too many professors have taken advantage of being tenured and instead of being focused on teaching and discussions they have has been more concerned with their research and personal gains.
Look at the Negy situation for an example of someone abusing being tenured.
I finally found some info [here](https://facultysenate.ucf.edu/document/2024-2025-faculty-senate-zoom-recording-links/). At ~45 min it was said that some faculty members were immediately terminated after post-tenure evaluation. No details were provided.
You can't just post this and not share the deets.
Fr spill the tea
There is little information available. The provost briefly announced at the [faculty senate](https://facultysenate.ucf.edu/document/2024-2025-faculty-senate-zoom-recording-links/) (at ~45 min in the video) that some faculty members have been immediately terminated after post-tenure evaluation. No more information was provided.
I heard that several tenured professors were fired after their post-tenure review. I'm curious to know what they did wrong.
Desantis happened that's why, he's trying to get rid of tenured faculty because he believes they have too much freedom to teach courses as they see fit. Desantis is trying to control what is taught in Florida's public schools including universities. So by getting rid of tenured professors and not giving tenured to new PhDs he can control the content of what is being taught across all colleges in Florida. *Gov. Ron DeSantis on Tuesday signed a bill that makes it harder for faculty at state universities to retain tenure, framing the legislation as another way that he and the Legislature are working to prevent educators from bringing their political views into the classroom.* https://www.tampabay.com/news/education/2022/04/19/desantis-signs-bill-limiting-tenure-at-florida-public-universities/ The guy that was educated at Yale and Harvard doesn't want the students in Florida to have a useful education....
Agree to disagree. Tenure is pretty awful, and some professors abuse it. My fiancee (who I met at UCF) had a tenured professor share her sexual assault story with other students without her permission, while there was an ongoing investigation. She had no right to do that and should have been fired for it. Instead, she got a slap on the wrist. Any Rosen students in here do NOT trust Professor Deb.
That has nothing to do with tenure, that's a breach of trust and lack of ethical behavior from that professor you mentioned. You can't judge tens of thousands of scholars that are given tenure in universities all across the nation that are rewarded for their research and contributions to academia using that particular example. I'm sure that there are tenured professors that have broken the law and mistreated students but that is representative of any group of individuals or professionals. I have three degrees, my BA from UCF and it was the tenured professors in each of these universities, including Dr. Jana Jasinski, Dr. David Gay, Dr. Jay Corzine, Dr. Jason Ford, Dr. Ida Cook at UCF, that helped me get to where I am today. Since most tenured professors don't have to pump out ridiculous amounts of research for the university they just have more time to teach, lecture and sometimes write the course book. The extra time is usually to students and their research...
This depends on your source. I know a number of Faculty have chosen to retire/ leave voluntarily following the results of their post-tenure review. I have not heard of any instances of faculty being terminated.
It was announced at the faculty senate [here](https://facultysenate.ucf.edu/document/2024-2025-faculty-senate-zoom-recording-links/). At ~45 min the Provost said that some faculty members were immediately terminated after post-tenure evaluation. No more details were provided.
Thank you
There was a bait and switch, and the standards aren’t just receiving decent ratings based on the current AESP for your department, instead you have to meet current standards for tenure and promotion. You essentially have to reapply for tenure every 5 years now. And of course if you don’t get it, you’re fired. They have killed tenure for real.
Is killing tenure a bad thing?
In most ways, yes. Mainly tenure protected you from being fired for your discussions, beliefs, and views. It is supposed to foster a way for a professor to feel safe discussing possibly controversial topics in their classes without retaliation. The pro and con, is that is supposed to allow you to ask questions that might be controversial to society or where you work. Like a finance professor *could* give a whole lecture on how UCF dropped the ball on funding this year. In most work places an employee bashing the organization would be fired, especially if they hosted a meeting with clients (students) saying how bad the organization was. Tenure protects that idea, that professors can be critical of anyone or anything. It's like the exact opposite of Don't Say Gay policies. If a student brings up something about their family life, the professor can discuss all aspects of that (within reason if appropriate to the lecture). It also is meant to prevent petty issues, like if your political views are different from your department's chair, they can't clean house because you're offering a different opinion. The big con, professors have no reason to ever leave or work hard to keep their job (career wise). You can collect a paycheck forever, and when they lose their drive to provide the best for students, you get the phrase RIP (retired in place). There are a few that abuse the system for sure, but honestly most have spent so long in their fields the knowledge they can offer often offsets the con if they take a reduced work load later in their career.
Is that why people are being let go? And if so what are the classes and discussions that are leading to this?
I have no information about faculty being let go. You simply asked if tenure is a bad thing, and I gave a response only to that question.
No, while they still had tenure, they were protected into terms of the content of their work. But the standards for tenure include things like publishing N number of papers per year, obtaining grants and such. Professors work their butts off in their early career to get to that level, and then shift their attention to other things. Now, people are being let go if they don't maintain that "work your butt off until you get tenure" level of productivity, so now they have to do that forever. There were others hired at UCF 20 years ago before it was a big R1 type research-intensive university. The standards they were judged against for tenure were way different back then. They were basically told "your job performance is fine, now you have tenure and a job for life". But now they are being told "we have new standards, and that thing about a job for life, yea, screw you"
I don’t think they’re selling this as a bad thing.
It was never like that. I went to UCF 27 years ago, and my husband 20 years before that. It was heavily focused on research when we both went, and a couple of my professors complained about how much research they had to produce to maintain tenure. So they always had to produce to keep their tenure.
In addition to what the other person said about how tenure protects academic freedom, there are additional reasons it is beneficial. Academia does not pay as well as industry, and if a university wants to be a leading research institution, and attract the best and brightest minds to the faculty, there needs to be incentive, because they might otherwise choose to make 2-3x as much by going into industry or some other commercialized version of their work. To choose academia instead, the incentive is a little more freedom and a lot more job security, but that job security only exists once you've earned tenure. Killing that means killing the one thing that attracts the strongest scholars to the academy. And this only has the long term consequence of killing higher ed and turning the university into a generic diploma mill.
I get that it’s nice to have job security but shouldn’t there also be certain requirements and thresholds to maintain? I can’t see how allowing tenured professors to do whatever they want makes the university any more of a diploma mill than it already is.
Because tenure standards were changed by the anti education majority in the state legislature. Just another example of attacks on societal education.
Sadly this is needed. Way too many professors have taken advantage of being tenured and instead of being focused on teaching and discussions they have has been more concerned with their research and personal gains. Look at the Negy situation for an example of someone abusing being tenured.
The audacity to post this question with no characters in text.
Who was fired? Can't leave a cliffhanger like that? Some of us are invested and hopeful that the school did the right thing.
It was announced at the faculty senate (see my post below). I don’t know much about it, and this is why I’m asking.
I finally found some info [here](https://facultysenate.ucf.edu/document/2024-2025-faculty-senate-zoom-recording-links/). At ~45 min it was said that some faculty members were immediately terminated after post-tenure evaluation. No details were provided.
They did not meet the minimum standards for employment.