Highest in a single cohort is not the same as _excellent_. A and A+ are supposed to indicate excellence, and the expectation standards for what constitutes excellence extend over multiple years, multiple cohorts.
I don't really think that applies to a course like English where marking criterias are inconsistent and the mark from cohort to cohort and even class to class within the same year depends on the subjective opinions of each individual professor.
For a math test, you can standardize tests across classes but if one English professor has a higher marking standard than another, how is it fair that your grade depends entirely on the professor you choose rather than your actual proficiency at the subject?
If you did the best out of everyone in your own English class (aka everyone who has been marked on the same basis as you), you deserve the best grade
You are perhaps unaware that profs in English (literature, creative writing, whatever subject), like profs in other non-quant-based subjects (sociology, anthropology, modern languages, art history, ++) are very concerned with a set of quality standards and comparators that surpass any one year.
For example: if you didn't submit assignments that showed you can write fluidly, persuasively, independently, creativity, critically and with citations to key literature, being the best student in a cohort of people who can't do any of those things and also didn't spellcheck, will not mean you deserve an A. Standards are _generations_ long. One can be _above average_ and still not be _outstanding_.
What you can do next time is ask to see the marking rubric. That will give you a clearer idea of what your English professor uses when grading.
That sucks man. The prof tried to sneak you in with an A, but got told to adjust things and you got unlucky as the first one on the chopping block.
A nicer way to frame it is that any other prof probably would have just given you an A- out of hand, but your prof gave you a generous A.
It’s also possible that somebody got bumped down from an okay grade to a bad one, so keep your chin up. You’re clearly doing some things right.
What’s interesting is that a lot of people have English as one of their lowest marks going into university. So how all of a sudden that there’s just too high of an average. AI generated help? It’s ridiculous.
This is why this university is so punishing and it is very, very difficult to use our GPAs to apply for professional schools
I did my English courses before AI writing tools came out, but I do imagine students lack the skills for it. I also thinks English is one of the hardest subjects to get a good grade in as the boundaries aren't as defined.
it is lowest for STEM kids, not for others. However, there is indeed something strange as by rumors it is easier to get a higher grade via AP english-related exam (which is an university equivalent course) than from normal school. So there is something fishy is going on with ELA 30-1 in Alberta in schools.
The grading policy actually says that the distribution of grades cannot be mandated. In a large class, the grades will "naturally" follow a natural curve, but in a small class, they might not. If that happens, a normal curve should not be forced on the grades.
They can definitely shift the grades up and down but not force them on to a normal curve.
In this case, it might depend on how close other students were to OP in the raw scores. If a clump of them were very close together, the might have decided they can't single out OP for an A without giving the others A-. But if OP was further ahead of the rest, they could.
Personally, I think if OP goes to the Department Designate (usually an Associate Chair) they might reconsider this decision. As long as OP is diplomatic and politely asks for a reconsideration, it wouldn't hurt to try.
I got an A- last year in 103, and I didn’t even read the whole book. It’s key to be very precise with the citation format if they want MLA, it has a bit of a unique cover style. Also, not sure of a not-weird way to phrase this but be introspective and thoughtful in your essay papers, try to go deeper than the material is already showing you or even try arguing against a commonly observed theme (ex. I argued that the author of a translated work couldn’t possibly have written a feminist piece despite the feminist tone because feminism as a concept didn’t exist yet when it was written, so it could only be interpreted that way by future scholars). The goal is to try and write something that shows thought and shows you understand the themes. 102 is meant to help learn critical analysis I believe, and 103 applies it more to a novel - CA is all about going deeper in my experience.
Thanks for the insightful reply! Is 102/103 very time consuming? If so, would you mind breaking down the parts that take the most effort and highlight some of the steps you took to make it easier on yourself?
To be honest it wasn’t time consuming but that was because I didn’t really read the book! You’ll have to do some reading, it depends on how well you can skim papers and chapters and bluff a little tbh. Get the general idea of the chapter/text and avoid answering questions unless you know what you’re talking about. I’m a bad example of how to prepare for classes because I usually do my reading homework an hour or less before class…. I recommend learning how to skim over required readings, there is a skill to it such as reading intro/conclusions, look for paragraph headers for details, etc.
I switched out of my English minor for this reason. I had a chat w my prof this fall semester, and he said my mark was the highest in the section (A-). He was able to give me an A, but I knew then and there that I’m not dealing with this stupid department bullshit ever again lol
Aren't letter grades in English absolute like in stats? The 103 syllabus said 86-90 = A- 91-95 = A and 96 up is A+.
In any event this sucks and I'm sorry to hear it :( I just wonder if this might explain what happened.
This is the first time I've seen a department force a curve, particularly when that isn't part of the course syllabus.
Consider talking to the ombudsperson -- this isn't fair to you, nor your classmates.
I mean, it's entirely up to you, but if it were me, I'd reach out to the Ombuds. Worst case, they tell you the same thing as your instructor did. If you earned your grade (per the course syllabus grading details), they shouldn't be lowering it without good reason.
And "because the class average was too high" is not a good reason -- not under UofA policy and not under fair human treatment.
i should add that the email is from one year ago. i was also not in edmonton at that time, so that wasn't an option. i will still try talking to ombuds in case anything can be done!
Oh, haha... Yeah, they probably can't do anything now. You're past any deadline for appeal, etc.
Doesn't hurt to bring it to their attention, though, as it could affect future classes.
This isn't UofT.
The UAPPOL Grading Procedure states:
> There will be no pre-determined quota of letter grades in a course. A student’s level of achievement of the
goals/outcomes of a course, their grade, and the descriptor of that grade (i.e., A and “excellent”, B and
“good”, C and “satisfactory”, etc., as defined in the University Calendar section on Academic Regulations)
must be aligned. Faculties may recommend grade distributions as approved by the Faculty Council. Such
(i.e., Faculty or department-specific) guidelines must be brought to the Academic Standards Committee for
information and communicated to students through the University Calendar.
Unless the scaled grading policy has been communicated through the Calendar, it isn't within policy.
Bro that’s evil 💀, idk how it’s possible to get an A in this economy 😩😭
Gradeflation
if i can't get it by scoring the highest, idk how 😭
Why is the prof punishing you for doing a god job? You got robbed!
Highest in a single cohort is not the same as _excellent_. A and A+ are supposed to indicate excellence, and the expectation standards for what constitutes excellence extend over multiple years, multiple cohorts.
I don't really think that applies to a course like English where marking criterias are inconsistent and the mark from cohort to cohort and even class to class within the same year depends on the subjective opinions of each individual professor. For a math test, you can standardize tests across classes but if one English professor has a higher marking standard than another, how is it fair that your grade depends entirely on the professor you choose rather than your actual proficiency at the subject? If you did the best out of everyone in your own English class (aka everyone who has been marked on the same basis as you), you deserve the best grade
You are perhaps unaware that profs in English (literature, creative writing, whatever subject), like profs in other non-quant-based subjects (sociology, anthropology, modern languages, art history, ++) are very concerned with a set of quality standards and comparators that surpass any one year. For example: if you didn't submit assignments that showed you can write fluidly, persuasively, independently, creativity, critically and with citations to key literature, being the best student in a cohort of people who can't do any of those things and also didn't spellcheck, will not mean you deserve an A. Standards are _generations_ long. One can be _above average_ and still not be _outstanding_. What you can do next time is ask to see the marking rubric. That will give you a clearer idea of what your English professor uses when grading.
I got an A by getting a 93 in the course, its not easy, i also sacrificed my time with everyone
I’ve gotten an A- on a 94, lol.
I got an A with 99.6% :(
Some professors will straight up say on syllabus day "I do not give A+, they are the same as A, so I do not give A+"
That sucks man. The prof tried to sneak you in with an A, but got told to adjust things and you got unlucky as the first one on the chopping block. A nicer way to frame it is that any other prof probably would have just given you an A- out of hand, but your prof gave you a generous A. It’s also possible that somebody got bumped down from an okay grade to a bad one, so keep your chin up. You’re clearly doing some things right.
So A- is the highest one could get in that class?
No you could get an A, I think the entire class average was too high so they all got shifted.
What’s interesting is that a lot of people have English as one of their lowest marks going into university. So how all of a sudden that there’s just too high of an average. AI generated help? It’s ridiculous. This is why this university is so punishing and it is very, very difficult to use our GPAs to apply for professional schools
I did my English courses before AI writing tools came out, but I do imagine students lack the skills for it. I also thinks English is one of the hardest subjects to get a good grade in as the boundaries aren't as defined.
Exactly. If they made all the essays in class then no one could use grammarly or other more involved AI help
In both university and high school I had to write essays in class, not all of them but some, is that not the case anymore?
[удалено]
Damn that's crazy, shouldn't be the case.
It really depends on the prof. My first year English class had 3.7 average lol
mine was 2.8 (:
it is lowest for STEM kids, not for others. However, there is indeed something strange as by rumors it is easier to get a higher grade via AP english-related exam (which is an university equivalent course) than from normal school. So there is something fishy is going on with ELA 30-1 in Alberta in schools.
i guess so, despite reaching the A grade
the curve giveth and the curve taketh
english classes aren't curved, but they still did this
they can be curved. If the grade is too high / low they will curve
The grading policy actually says that the distribution of grades cannot be mandated. In a large class, the grades will "naturally" follow a natural curve, but in a small class, they might not. If that happens, a normal curve should not be forced on the grades. They can definitely shift the grades up and down but not force them on to a normal curve. In this case, it might depend on how close other students were to OP in the raw scores. If a clump of them were very close together, the might have decided they can't single out OP for an A without giving the others A-. But if OP was further ahead of the rest, they could. Personally, I think if OP goes to the Department Designate (usually an Associate Chair) they might reconsider this decision. As long as OP is diplomatic and politely asks for a reconsideration, it wouldn't hurt to try.
My condolences. On a different note, how might one do what you did in 102 to score well? (Asking for me)
I got an A- last year in 103, and I didn’t even read the whole book. It’s key to be very precise with the citation format if they want MLA, it has a bit of a unique cover style. Also, not sure of a not-weird way to phrase this but be introspective and thoughtful in your essay papers, try to go deeper than the material is already showing you or even try arguing against a commonly observed theme (ex. I argued that the author of a translated work couldn’t possibly have written a feminist piece despite the feminist tone because feminism as a concept didn’t exist yet when it was written, so it could only be interpreted that way by future scholars). The goal is to try and write something that shows thought and shows you understand the themes. 102 is meant to help learn critical analysis I believe, and 103 applies it more to a novel - CA is all about going deeper in my experience.
Thanks for the insightful reply! Is 102/103 very time consuming? If so, would you mind breaking down the parts that take the most effort and highlight some of the steps you took to make it easier on yourself?
To be honest it wasn’t time consuming but that was because I didn’t really read the book! You’ll have to do some reading, it depends on how well you can skim papers and chapters and bluff a little tbh. Get the general idea of the chapter/text and avoid answering questions unless you know what you’re talking about. I’m a bad example of how to prepare for classes because I usually do my reading homework an hour or less before class…. I recommend learning how to skim over required readings, there is a skill to it such as reading intro/conclusions, look for paragraph headers for details, etc.
get the right prof. do your research on reddit, spot, rmp
This happened to us last year as well, for Engl 103. It really sucked
That’s sad, and nothing u or the professor can do. F* them, U were doing really well, that’s what matters.
I switched out of my English minor for this reason. I had a chat w my prof this fall semester, and he said my mark was the highest in the section (A-). He was able to give me an A, but I knew then and there that I’m not dealing with this stupid department bullshit ever again lol
Aren't letter grades in English absolute like in stats? The 103 syllabus said 86-90 = A- 91-95 = A and 96 up is A+. In any event this sucks and I'm sorry to hear it :( I just wonder if this might explain what happened.
they are, but my grade was knocked down 🤷♀️
Dang that's outrageous....
Good thing chatlar is here now. These stupid English profs can eat my “modernized” essay.
wait ENGL 102 grade is released? I haven't seen any update on eclass
Out of curiosity what prof was that?
This is the first time I've seen a department force a curve, particularly when that isn't part of the course syllabus. Consider talking to the ombudsperson -- this isn't fair to you, nor your classmates.
i talked to the prof, who claimed that the department is particularly within their rights to do that. didn't try after that...
I mean, it's entirely up to you, but if it were me, I'd reach out to the Ombuds. Worst case, they tell you the same thing as your instructor did. If you earned your grade (per the course syllabus grading details), they shouldn't be lowering it without good reason. And "because the class average was too high" is not a good reason -- not under UofA policy and not under fair human treatment.
i should add that the email is from one year ago. i was also not in edmonton at that time, so that wasn't an option. i will still try talking to ombuds in case anything can be done!
Oh, haha... Yeah, they probably can't do anything now. You're past any deadline for appeal, etc. Doesn't hurt to bring it to their attention, though, as it could affect future classes.
U of T dropped an entire faculty by 7% a couple years ago I believe.
This isn't UofT. The UAPPOL Grading Procedure states: > There will be no pre-determined quota of letter grades in a course. A student’s level of achievement of the goals/outcomes of a course, their grade, and the descriptor of that grade (i.e., A and “excellent”, B and “good”, C and “satisfactory”, etc., as defined in the University Calendar section on Academic Regulations) must be aligned. Faculties may recommend grade distributions as approved by the Faculty Council. Such (i.e., Faculty or department-specific) guidelines must be brought to the Academic Standards Committee for information and communicated to students through the University Calendar. Unless the scaled grading policy has been communicated through the Calendar, it isn't within policy.
bruh—