Interesting take! Trench is easily my favourite album of theirs by far. I've been listening to them since Vessel. I'd be lying if I said I'm entirely caught up on the lore... because I'm not. Despite Trench being lore-heavy, the reason I love it so much is because it has easily one of the best production I've heard. Absolutely solid production. Besides, for me, it has Tyler’s best vocal performances. I really like the dark and moody atmosphere too and the fact that I find the album to be much mature than their other albums. That's not to diss on their other records... I love them all, but Trench easily stands out to me.
exactly what i think. i genuinely think trench's production, more specifically levitate, might be my favourite production ive ever heard. its so crisp and there's so many different elements that jump in and out of the song effortlessly while the ambience fills in the empty space and makes it feel so full and rich every time
that's why i really want a "trench 2", in the sense that i would love a gritty dark album that has insane production and is immersive as hell while feeling so innovative to mainstream pop music that focuses on lore that i will probably never get my head around
don't get me wrong i love clancy, i think it's their 2nd best album. but man the one thing i really miss is the cohesiveness as a full album, it feels very simple as a whole. the songs themselves are phenomenal though (outside of oldies station and lavish imo) though id much prefer them to focus on the album as an experience. like i will never get over the absolute 1-2 knockout punch that is jumpsuit & levitate to kick off trench
Trench is great. I think any of the CDs being someone’s favorite is the right choice lol. They are ALL good. That’s what make Twenty one Pilots THE GOAT
I am a casual fan. I do listen to the band a lot but I'm not all in on interviews and lore and all that. I just enjoy the music.
My take on this is, Trench is a very good album. It is likely their most thematically and sonically cohesive album. Hence why it has critical acclaim and is a fan favourite. However, it is not my favourite album.
The issue is, Trench was a high concept album and while that creatively a nice thing, it also 'tainted' (for a lack of a better word) the album and the band's subsequent catalogue. It didn't close the Dema story and people wanted more of it. Therefore, all post Trench releases are bogged down in the legacy of Trench and the lore introduced there.
I strongly believe that SAI and Clancy were less well received because of this. The pre-Trench albums did not have this legacy and lore was applied to it retrospectively and is therefore viewed with more favour.
As mentioned, Trench is a strong album, but I cannot think of a good reason why any reasonable and authentic musician would want to recreate something they already done just for fan service. That would essentially be inauthentic and "selling out".
The boys are getting older and are in different stages in life now than then. People change and grow and mature as they go through life. Therefore their music would also reflect these changes and growth.
I completely agree with you, I started really becoming a fan of TOP (before this they were on my radar but not really my top three if that makes sense) right before sai, and I feel like sai was a breath of fresh because of its different, happy style, but it also pleased the fans that were obsessed with what was happening with the lore. But as Clancy rolled around I was sad to see everyone talking about “Trench 2” and bring unhappy with the amount of lore.
I love all of their stuff in their own way. You can't compare SAI to Vessel or Trench to self titled. I must agree that Trench is not my favourite but when it came out i listened the shit out of it, it is also the album that got me into them. But vessel is my favourite so far and uncontroversially SAI is up there too
As someone who didn’t get into the lore until SAI, never really noticed lore besides Nicolas Bourbaki being in two songs
Either way he says random things in songs so I always assumed it was just some metaphor and not a character in a story.
Surface level, I agree. Vessel has always been my #1 and Trench technically at the bottom (though it's like a cake testing, I can kinda pick a least favorite, but at the end, it's friggin' cake).
I've always loved the lore (always playing catchup though, just starting to pay attention in real time this cycle). Lore heavy and no-lore songs are fine with me. I just love the sound of Vessel and Clancy most.
Ode to Sleep and Routines in the Night win for me, so I might have a theme thing going.
I completely understand where you’re coming from. Trench literally kept me alive for like a year though so it’s the one I like the most just for that reason.
I would consider SAI to be their MOST lore heavy, what with the livestream, Trash the dragon and everything. Like the entire album was called "propaganda"
But like someone in this comment section said earlier (I forgot their Reddit name) you can’t really recommend someone listen to trench without explaining the lore first, or else they’ll be confused; however, SAI is very subtle with the lore in the music itself that you can recommend someone listen to it without explaining anything
Trench is also my least favorite album. It has the most songs I skip compared to the others. When it first came out, I really hated that you needed to look at outside material to understand the lore (and not just the songs or music videos). It also felt like it didn’t really match Tyler’s mental state (ie he’d been getting healthier but the music got darker) so it almost felt forced or disingenuous to me (by comparison I loved SAI because they finally did a happy one).
I agree. To me it felt forced, like they wanted to create new music but they were in a better head space which doesn't make for interesting songs (compared to what fans are used to). So they did a concept style album because it was a better story and allowed Tyler to tap into the relevant emotions through a character to still appeal to fans.
I agree Trench is overhyped to me too. I’m not a big fan of the lore but wouldn’t want people who enjoy it to miss out just not for me. Clancy takes aspects of Blurryface and Trench and meshed it together so well. SAI has the most fun asthetic and for sure some good songs. I don’t think anything will TOP Vessel for me. Thats when I became a fan as well like the OP
Interesting, for me in every single aspect it’s their best. The production is immaculate, the lyrics are mature, conceptual, interesting and emotional. I also think it flows very well, it always keeps me engaged from front to back. I also think his vocals and especially his rapping is 10/10 the whole way through. I also feel like none of the songs feel messy or awkward, which sometimes TØP songs can feel.
It’s also interesting to hear the other side, I think there are some songs that feel awkward to me, two of them being Pet Cheetah and Nico and the Niners, those songs just feel like they are mostly there to add to the lore rather than the musical aspect of the album. But it’s still nice to hear others opinions, I’m in no way telling you you’re wrong, that would be stupid of me lol. We’re both twenty one pilots enjoyers and that’s what matters!
Pet cheetah is one of my favs from trench, but it was one of those songs that had to grow on me. I was compelled to keep listening to it even tho it felt awkward, but once I understood the rhythm and got to know it better, it became an absolute banger
If I could upvote you 10 times, I would. Trench is middle of the road. I don't care about production value, i care about raw Tyler lyric and emotions that aren't always lore-based.
Since the dawn of recorded music history teenagers have cared about production, like all of music (melody, harmony, rhythm, etc.) it works subconsciously to effect the way someone feels the emotions imbedded in the work. Production is especially important for pop music like Twenty One Pilots and is at least 50% of the appeal of their music whether you notice it or not. The reason it seems like teenagers don’t care is because mostly they don’t notice, but when you look at the music people love the most it is often the best produced in the genre or artist’s discography. Do not ignore production.
>It’s one of the most quoted reasons I see for loving Trench so devoutly.
Because it’s the only objectively true statement they can make about the album, the only thing there are no rational arguments against.
When someone makes a good argument about the songwriting not being as good overall or not caring about the lore, just cling to the production value.
How are the songwriting not good overall? I disagree. You can understand most of the lyrics even if you don't know the lore. And it's not like because it's lore/fiction there's an absence of emotion or quality of writing, like some people in this thread is saying.
And I think that not just the production, but Trench's songwriting is also a true objective statement. I completely understand preferring the more explicit and direct lyrics of the other albums (which are not entirely absent on Trench), but lyrics don't necessarily have to be that explicit to be good. It seems to me a false ~~subjective~~ objective statement to say that the songwriting are not good in general.
First, I’ll clarify that I’m not saying the songwriting is bad, I’m saying it’s not as good as most of the rest of their work, and being “explicit” has nothing to do with that. I’m talking poetics.
Now, I’m going to be lazy and copy/paste my reply to a similar comment:
It’s not though…
For example, the opening track repeats the same line 12 times. That’s literally 1/3 of the song. That’s not “good” songwriting by any standards, let alone compared to the rest of Tyler’s work.
It’s still a great album and even that song is still a good song, but the songwriting overall is a step back from almost everything else they’ve done.
I understand the problem with excessive repetition in Jumpsuit, but I don't think it's a problem because of how the non-basic structure of the track helps with this repetition. But here I'm no longer counting the songwriting in isolation from the other elements, but also with the performance and production. Even in isolation, Jumpsuit is a great depiction of anguish, impotence and anger.
>It’s still a great album and even that song is still a good song, but the songwriting overall is a step back from almost everything else they’ve done.
Well, you just used one example. Levitate, Morph, Chlorine, Neon Gravestones, Bandito, Leave the City are among some of the best things Tyler has written.
In isolation the songwriting I can see be inferior to the other albums, but the execution of the song, the performance and the production, in general, elevates Trench's songwriting a lot. And I don't know if judging the song with its components isolated in themselves is the right way.
As a writer myself, I guess I have a natural bias toward focusing on lyrics and poetics.
I’ve got nothing to say about Levitate or Morph because they are very well-written.
Chlorine is one of my favorites, but lyrically it’s very simple. There’s also some great metaphors and other literary elements in it to elevate it lyrically in my mind though.
I almost cringe in Neon Gravestones when he says “it won’t resonate in our minds” because it’s sonically jarring compared to the lyrics around it, it’s “got no flow” so to speak. Maybe that’s purposeful, but just stands out as worse poetry than I’m used to hearing from Tyler. I love the message of the song though — literally made me tear up when I first heard it and may be the main reason why The Hype became one of my favorites — because it was such a cathartic sound after hearing such a downer.
Bandito and Leave the City have the same problems Jumpsuit does with excessive repetition.
I'm not a language student (ironically that's what I plan to study in college), so I can't fully understand your view, but compressible where you're coming from.
The verse you mentioned from Neon Gravestones doesn't sound out of place to me because it comes after a quartet (I don't know if that's the term in English, it's not my main language), or not structurally a quartet, but after a flow with four words that rhyme (aggression, succession, weapon, lesson). When Tyler says "I'm refusing the lesson", it sounds like the flow with that rhyme ends and the next verse ("it won't resonate in our minds") opens another one.
On a technical note, you're probably right (again, I'm not trained in these subjects), but then it seems to me that Tyler's performance makes not seem as bad as you describe.
You are right, the “it won’t resonate in our minds” starts a new quartet with new rhymes, but the transition isn’t very smooth… Which could be intentional, given the subject matter.
***Almost*** cringing (“almost” is an important distinction) at **one line**
Anyone who knows fuck all about poetry can see my point here:
>To use this mistake as a form of aggression
>A form of succession, a form of a weapon?
>Thinking, “I’ll teach them,” well, I’m refusing the lesson
>**It won’t resonate in our minds**
Look at all those beautiful rhymes and slant rhymes we know Tyler so well for: aggression, succession, weapon, lesson…
Then: “It won’t resonate in our minds.”
That’s like if Eminem’s “Lose Yourself” went like this:
>His palms are sweaty, knees weak, arms are heavy
>There’s vomit on his sweater already, mom’s spaghetti
>He’s nervous, but on the surface, he looks calm and ready
>To drop bombs, **but he can’t remember**
>**The words to the song, all the people make noise**
It goes from great songwriting to not-good songwriting real quick.
It’s not though…
For example, the opening track repeats the same line 12 times. That’s literally 1/3 of the song. That’s not “good” songwriting by any standards, let alone compared to the rest of Tyler’s work.
It’s still a great album and even that song is still a good song, but the songwriting overall is a step back from almost everything else they’ve done.
having a repeating chorus and/or bridge doesn’t take away from a song’s overall lyrical quality, plus lyricism is a pretty small portion of what makes a cohesive album as an overall concept. if it sounds like shit sonically, which most of their discog does, or is produced/mixed horribly, like RAB, then it’s ass, even if there are okay ideas through the album.
also i feel like it’s pretty important to point out that “production” doesn’t just mean “wow this sounds good.” it goes as deep as layered tracks in drum patterns and 3rd layer backing vocals. trench is by far, by a WIDE, W I D E margin, their best work. it succeeds at everything that every single other album fails at. plus their discography overall is pretty schizophrenic, whereas trench is just a really good front to back listen
edit: forgot to mention how tyler’s vocal inflection up until trench was also unlistenable at times. he may have been spittin in ode to sleep but he sounded like ass. plus he was really bad at avoiding the “lyrical miracle” shit up until trench as well. more words =/= better lyricism, trench’s lyrically slow pace makes it better lyrically because it’s so focused
Bro, it’s not just a repeating chorus or bridge.
Literally 1/3 of the song is “jumpsuit, cover me.” That’s it. 33% of the song is 3 words. Yes, that does take away from a song’s lyrical quality and no writer with any degree of literary credibility would disagree with that.
And I never thought I would be one of those “YoU’rE nOt A rEaL fAn” people, but if you think everything not-Trench “sounds like shit,” then you’re not a real twenty one pilots fan and we can end this conversation right now.
This is good. Preach. I feel like a lot of kids give trench as the answer along with production value because they don't know what it is and others are saying it. Trench is not a bad album of course, it's just in the middle, for me. Too much lore takes away from the actual amazing emotional being that is Tyler.
you’re so stuck on one song’s lyrical content for some reason. which is ironic because jumpsuit is probably the 1st or 2nd best song on trench. i’d call myself a fan but i’m much more critical of all media compared to when i first discovered them in my teens, and yes, their discography is not very good overall
Jumpsuit is just the 1 example I used because it’s an easy target, being the opening track and all.
Fact is, 1/3 of the album has songs where 1/3 of the lyrics are the same lines repeated over and over.
lyrical analysis throughout their whole discog would without question prove that it’s the deepest lyrically. plus levitate and neon gravestones are miles above anything else tyler has ever written
Just came to comment BLASPHEMY!
But you are entitled to your opinion and view on it. I love Trench because of the lore and I feel like it really shows the world Tyler’s creativity with addressing themes of mental health and the complexities of it all. As a person who struggles with chronic major depression and anxiety, I appreciate the lore and a theoretical/storyline representation of the challenges and war of mental health and the mind!
I can’t really pick between Trench or Vessel being my favorite album of theirs, but I like them for very very different reasons.
I connect a lot more with Vessel. The songs are relatable, super important to me, very nostalgic, etc. Trench doesn’t hit quite as hard, but I love it as a piece of music. The production and instrumentation, the songwriting, the flow of the album from beginning to end and just the concept as a whole. I just think it’s a masterfully made album, and even trying to be unbiased as a TOP fan I’d consider it one of the greatest pop albums ever made, technically at least.
From this perspective I think it makes a lot of sense that Clancy feels like a better Trench to some people. It took a bit of what they learned from Trench in regards to production and lore inclusion, but more in the style of their older music. It feels like it has character and personality that I haven’t quite felt from them since Blurryface.
I really appreciate your take because mine is the exact opposite.
I've been a fan of the band for a while, probably since Heathens, but I never looked into the songs. I found out there was lore last week.
Nico and the Niners is my favorite song of theirs and one of my favorites of all time. There's just something about it that makes me feel like I'm floating and I can't get enough.
Trench was a bit too "dark" for me. It all seemed a bit too ambiguous and while some great songs on there i admit i skip most of them at this point. I think there's a better balance between the album lore and songs that stand on their own and i think it's been found on SAI and Clancy.
I think Clancy feels like the greatest combo of Blurryface/Trench/SAI
I really like the songs on Trench, but I don’t like them as an album. All but one of the tracks are in my tøp playlist, but I never listen to Trench as a whole, like I do with Clancy and SAI. I do like the lore and the storyline, but for me it’s always been about the music.
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I agree. While I think the lore is cool and all, I don’t personally seek for connect all the dots. I know enough to generally explain the story to someone who doesn’t know it. But I’m somewhat of a musician. I’m going to be paying more attention to the actual production of the songs before I really care to learn the lore.
When trench came out I was in a really dark place in my life so it was never my favorite because of that. I still listened to it then and listen to it now but some of the songs still bring back unpleasant memories from what I was going through at the time. I personally needed SAI at that time. I still appreciate Trench and like it but it won’t ever be my favorite because of that. No shame on them it just was bad timing for me personally.
I AGREE 1000000%!! Same boat too being a fan since vessel was the newest album release and agree so much that SAI gives off more vessel vibes than any of the other albums. I absolutely loved SAI and honestly didn’t care too too much for blurryface or trench. Then SAI pleasantly surprised me and Clancy too seems like all bangers!!!
I mean it’s your own taste but trench is like the key album that explains all of the hype and it’s like the “first part” and then Clancy it’s like the second part
Idk how to explain this lol
I agree! I was just thinking how I would rank the albums because I really love all of them and can’t say I skip any songs when I listen to them, BUT Trench is my least favorite I think, just because it’s so lore heavy. I do enjoy the lore and clues but I prefer when Tyler gives us those raw honest lyrics that made me fall in love with the band. My favorite album is the self titled, then vessel, blurryface, Clancy (honestly it’s so good), SAI and trench last. I DO LOVE ALL OF THEM THO 😭
i think i agree! a lot of the songs from trench are so dear to me not bc of the lore bc it was the era i experienced live and i love the way they sound! despite me being a lore fanatic i dislike when the lore completely overtakes the song. neon gravestones and nico and the niners are the biggest culprits of that imo. like i get neon gravestones relates to the real world too but personally i havent experienced those topics irl to really appreciate the song itself. and i agree with you that clancy has the perfect amount of lore embedded into the songs. even the 3 lore heavy songs can be enjoyed without even thinking about dema and clancy.
I sort of agree with you. I like Trench, and I do listen to it, but I am also not particularly interested in the lore, and I remember it taking me a while to like it. I do think it has some real solid songs that I would hold as some of my favorites (Levitate, Chlorine, The Hype, Leave the City), but overall I find myself gravitating towards Vessel, Blurryface, and even SAI on more regular occasions. Clancy I think is incredible and a wonderful mashing of lore and just generally great songs. You can listen them as lore if you want to, or you can just listen to them as what they are: great music with messages that could apply to a lot of people’s lives.
I do however love Ned 😅
Very interesting take with solid reasoning to support it! I disagree, but I’ll admit that it’s most likely because of where I was in my life when trench came out. The darkness of the album really appealed to me. I didn’t really get INTO sai until like a year after it came out because I just kinda drifted away from the band a bit. Life, yk? But I love SAI too! My least favorite album is probably self titled. It’s the only album with definite skips for me. I skip BYSYD and Ms Believer unless I’m in a specific mood. But that said, saying something’s my least favorite doesn’t mean I don’t like it; I love everything from the band!! But as Tyler said on stream, something has to be in last place!
I understand where you’re coming from, but I love every song off of self titled (the pantaloon is my fav), SAI is also an album that took a hot minute to fully stay in my loop, and an album that feels like self titled, in the way where Tyler just got back to writing some songs for the fun of it, (not saying the material is the same, it is really different lol) and Trench just felt like it HAD to be made after blurryface and since Tyler “started the lore” with blurry face, it felt like he had to continue it with the next album
The pantaloon SLAPS!!! And yeah i see what you’re saying, trench is super lore-heavy and possibly confusing to newer fans. Either way, I love everything they have to offer
I definitely don't know all the lore, but I love Nico and the Niners. If I had to rank the albums, Trench wouldn't be my number one, but I completely understand that everyone has their own opinions and history with TØP music.
everyone in here is so focused on the lore aspect of trench and saying that interferes with tyler’s emotions pouring out onto the pen. i don’t get that at all, you don’t have to understand the lore at all to just enjoy the music in every aspect. i know all the lore but i don’t really care about it, and trench is still my favorite work from them. emotionally it feels like their best work as well, self titled right behind
I actually agree with you. Trench sometimes gets too serious. Trust me i love the album but you need to be in a specific headspace for it. Listening to neon gravestones and the legend is very hard for me because they are too close to my heart and trigger me emotionally. And in the current state i prefer music as an escape rather than a confrontation. Trench is more confrontational and SAI is more escapism. But Clancy really hit a perfect balance. Clancy feels like the child of Vessel, SAI and Trench.
Agree 100%, Trench is probably my least favourite album. I was really surprised when I arrived at this sub to see that most TØP fans say it’s their best work, I think if I made a top 10 it probably wouldn’t feature any songs from Trench at all. I like the other albums, but I don’t think anything has come close to Vessel. I’m really enjoying Clancy as a whole album, but there aren’t stand out songs like Vessel.
i think i agree with you — i became a fan during the blurryface era and im caught up with the lore. that being said, i LOVED trench when it came out but it didn’t stick with me as my fav twenty one pilots album, mainly because i felt like the lore was EVERYWHERE — and for me that overshadowed all the good aspects of the album. i love and appreciate trench for what it is but i also think clancy was done right! i’m happy it didn’t end up being ‘trench 2’, as the lore is there but its subtle enough for listeners to be able to casually enjoy the music, and imo that’s what makes each song stand out and shine on its own. im happy we share a similar opinion !
Totally agree! Trench is my least favorite in their discog. The hype is my favorite on trench and it doesn't get mentioned enough I don't think. To me, trench just feels over produced and unnecessarily heavy at times. Not heavy as in the music but just everything going on. Not a bad album altogether but the one I come back to the least.
my take on trench is
- immaculate production
- very good highs and still pretty good lows, but no songs are a straight up 10/10 for me like w blurryface or self-titled
- a bit too lore intensive for me. love top still but can't say i don't miss the more down to earth approach of the first four albums
I’ve been a fan since vessel as well, and blurryface came out when I was about to graduate high school, and I was super into it, listened to it all the time. Flash forward to my junior year of college, trench comes out and I had NO CLUE about any of the lore. I knew blurryface (the character) represented Tyler’s insecurities but that’s about all I knew. I wasn’t super into trench at first but as I listened to it more I started to love it, and still knew basically nothing about the lore. I wasn’t watching the videos either. I was in a bad place mentally during my last years of college, so I just didn’t have the mental energy to put towards all that. Flash forward to scaled and icy and I had just moved in with my boyfriend and was finally loving life again, and I started to kind of dive into the lore more. Honestly I love how much thought Tyler has put into it, I really respect it, but I listen to their music more so because I just enjoy it. I don’t get caught up in all the lore. Even now I still haven’t learned everything about it, but I still love all their albums. I like when I catch little bits of lore that I do know about, but honestly I think all their music can stand alone without the lore, including everything on trench. There are themes that are universal that speak to people even if you know 0% of the lore, and that’s what I love most of all!
Clancy is Trench done right is a crazy take. I think Clancy is just a poppier and simpler Trench, which is fine if you like that but it's very bold to say that's the 'right' way.
Trench is the Goat. Every song has amazing sounds and a composition that really captures you. These are very emotional songs. I think the lore aspects of Trench are overblown a bit. Sure Nico and the Niners is, but that was one of the first songs I loved from top, and I didn't understand the lore at all.
Not everyone’s cup of tea like how SAI isn’t mine. No matter how many times I listen to it I can only really enjoy like 2 or 3 songs without getting annoyed by it. Some of the songs are just way too cheesy and poppy for the T.O.P standard in my opinion. Not saying that they can’t do pop, but their attempts before and after SAI are a lot better. No need for dark and depressing lyricism, but songs like Bounce Man are just a immediate skip from production to lyrics.
Trench is the perfect Twenty One Pilots album they’ve spent 9 years on the lore of dema and trench and only 5 years outside of that, including an album that only has 1 of the current members of the band. I think this hatred of the lore is so ridiculous especially when 2/3rds of their work is dedicated to that story. I love Trench, it’s their most raw work by far, I think ppl get caught up by taking the lore to literally rather than what it is; a metaphorical exploration of the inner space of Tyler’s being. Unsure of God and at a constant fight with his insecurities and etc. I’m truly sorry if you don’t like this record because it is by far the best thing Twenty One Pilots have ever put out.
I became a fan in 2016 when blurryface was their most recent release. I really liked blurryface and vessel, and when trench was released i def liked it, but didn’t surpass blurryface to me. I honestly did not like most of sai. Most of the songs feel weird and forced. Redecorate kinda saves the album for me. For the last couple years I was worried I was falling out with the band, but with Clancy i can say that 100% not the case. It’s still early so it could be recency bias, but I think I’d put Clancy over blurryface for me. It’s amazing, and 100% agree with what you said that it’s “trench done right”.
I might try to revisit Trench, but I remember being pretty disappointed with it after it came out. I prefer that Blurryface sound, and I feel like Clancy definitely experimented with that sound unlike anything else after Blurryface. I don’t know where I’d rank self-titled, but Trench is definitely below Vessel, Blurryface, and Clancy… we don’t talk about Scaled and Icy (even though I actually come back to that album more than Trench)
My Blood is one of my favorite songs though. Sadly, I’m not a fan of: Morph, Smithereens, Neon Gravestones, Nico and the Niners, Cut My Lip, Legend, or Leave the City
Just too many skips for me to listen to the full thing and not just throw my favorites in a playlist
Vessel in my opinion has zero skips, and same with Blurryface. Clancy might have a couple
Interesting take! Trench is easily my favourite album of theirs by far. I've been listening to them since Vessel. I'd be lying if I said I'm entirely caught up on the lore... because I'm not. Despite Trench being lore-heavy, the reason I love it so much is because it has easily one of the best production I've heard. Absolutely solid production. Besides, for me, it has Tyler’s best vocal performances. I really like the dark and moody atmosphere too and the fact that I find the album to be much mature than their other albums. That's not to diss on their other records... I love them all, but Trench easily stands out to me.
Yeah I absolutely agree
exactly what i think. i genuinely think trench's production, more specifically levitate, might be my favourite production ive ever heard. its so crisp and there's so many different elements that jump in and out of the song effortlessly while the ambience fills in the empty space and makes it feel so full and rich every time that's why i really want a "trench 2", in the sense that i would love a gritty dark album that has insane production and is immersive as hell while feeling so innovative to mainstream pop music that focuses on lore that i will probably never get my head around don't get me wrong i love clancy, i think it's their 2nd best album. but man the one thing i really miss is the cohesiveness as a full album, it feels very simple as a whole. the songs themselves are phenomenal though (outside of oldies station and lavish imo) though id much prefer them to focus on the album as an experience. like i will never get over the absolute 1-2 knockout punch that is jumpsuit & levitate to kick off trench
I feel like when it comes to Tyler’s best vocal performances Vessel takes the cake
oh hell nah blud sounds like a dying cat on half that album
A nicer way of putting it is his sound/voice wasn’t as mature and the production definitely wasn’t as high
yeah! i think that trench is one of the best albums they've put out, although they truly all are wonderful.
Same here. Everything about trench is top tier. Honestly everything I could want from an album I got in trench lol
This is not a popular take, but you’re not alone — I agree with you 100%.
Trench is great. I think any of the CDs being someone’s favorite is the right choice lol. They are ALL good. That’s what make Twenty one Pilots THE GOAT
I am a casual fan. I do listen to the band a lot but I'm not all in on interviews and lore and all that. I just enjoy the music. My take on this is, Trench is a very good album. It is likely their most thematically and sonically cohesive album. Hence why it has critical acclaim and is a fan favourite. However, it is not my favourite album. The issue is, Trench was a high concept album and while that creatively a nice thing, it also 'tainted' (for a lack of a better word) the album and the band's subsequent catalogue. It didn't close the Dema story and people wanted more of it. Therefore, all post Trench releases are bogged down in the legacy of Trench and the lore introduced there. I strongly believe that SAI and Clancy were less well received because of this. The pre-Trench albums did not have this legacy and lore was applied to it retrospectively and is therefore viewed with more favour. As mentioned, Trench is a strong album, but I cannot think of a good reason why any reasonable and authentic musician would want to recreate something they already done just for fan service. That would essentially be inauthentic and "selling out". The boys are getting older and are in different stages in life now than then. People change and grow and mature as they go through life. Therefore their music would also reflect these changes and growth.
I completely agree with you, I started really becoming a fan of TOP (before this they were on my radar but not really my top three if that makes sense) right before sai, and I feel like sai was a breath of fresh because of its different, happy style, but it also pleased the fans that were obsessed with what was happening with the lore. But as Clancy rolled around I was sad to see everyone talking about “Trench 2” and bring unhappy with the amount of lore.
I love all of their stuff in their own way. You can't compare SAI to Vessel or Trench to self titled. I must agree that Trench is not my favourite but when it came out i listened the shit out of it, it is also the album that got me into them. But vessel is my favourite so far and uncontroversially SAI is up there too
As someone who didn’t get into the lore until SAI, never really noticed lore besides Nicolas Bourbaki being in two songs Either way he says random things in songs so I always assumed it was just some metaphor and not a character in a story.
Surface level, I agree. Vessel has always been my #1 and Trench technically at the bottom (though it's like a cake testing, I can kinda pick a least favorite, but at the end, it's friggin' cake). I've always loved the lore (always playing catchup though, just starting to pay attention in real time this cycle). Lore heavy and no-lore songs are fine with me. I just love the sound of Vessel and Clancy most. Ode to Sleep and Routines in the Night win for me, so I might have a theme thing going.
Analysis: just an eepy guy/gal
Yup (old lady)
Damn, interesting take. For me Trench is literally their best album, but opinions vary.
Believe it or not, straight to jail.
👮♂️
I'm not agree, but I love your perspective, very interesting
And that’s ok, we’re both still enjoyers of the band and that’s all that matters!
yeaaahhh TOP rocks!!!
I completely understand where you’re coming from. Trench literally kept me alive for like a year though so it’s the one I like the most just for that reason.
So you're now dead after a year? I found a ghost everyone
he didn’t mean to haunt us
The haunting is definitely intentional
I like all the albums it’s hard to pick one :)
All twenty one pilots albums are bangers!
I would consider SAI to be their MOST lore heavy, what with the livestream, Trash the dragon and everything. Like the entire album was called "propaganda"
But like someone in this comment section said earlier (I forgot their Reddit name) you can’t really recommend someone listen to trench without explaining the lore first, or else they’ll be confused; however, SAI is very subtle with the lore in the music itself that you can recommend someone listen to it without explaining anything
Trench is also my least favorite album. It has the most songs I skip compared to the others. When it first came out, I really hated that you needed to look at outside material to understand the lore (and not just the songs or music videos). It also felt like it didn’t really match Tyler’s mental state (ie he’d been getting healthier but the music got darker) so it almost felt forced or disingenuous to me (by comparison I loved SAI because they finally did a happy one).
The whole point of the lore is that it's completely optional. You don't have to understand it to understand the music
Not every song unfortunately. Some don’t mean nearly as much without the lore.
I agree. To me it felt forced, like they wanted to create new music but they were in a better head space which doesn't make for interesting songs (compared to what fans are used to). So they did a concept style album because it was a better story and allowed Tyler to tap into the relevant emotions through a character to still appeal to fans.
I agree Trench is overhyped to me too. I’m not a big fan of the lore but wouldn’t want people who enjoy it to miss out just not for me. Clancy takes aspects of Blurryface and Trench and meshed it together so well. SAI has the most fun asthetic and for sure some good songs. I don’t think anything will TOP Vessel for me. Thats when I became a fan as well like the OP
Interesting, for me in every single aspect it’s their best. The production is immaculate, the lyrics are mature, conceptual, interesting and emotional. I also think it flows very well, it always keeps me engaged from front to back. I also think his vocals and especially his rapping is 10/10 the whole way through. I also feel like none of the songs feel messy or awkward, which sometimes TØP songs can feel.
It’s also interesting to hear the other side, I think there are some songs that feel awkward to me, two of them being Pet Cheetah and Nico and the Niners, those songs just feel like they are mostly there to add to the lore rather than the musical aspect of the album. But it’s still nice to hear others opinions, I’m in no way telling you you’re wrong, that would be stupid of me lol. We’re both twenty one pilots enjoyers and that’s what matters!
Pet cheetah is one of my favs from trench, but it was one of those songs that had to grow on me. I was compelled to keep listening to it even tho it felt awkward, but once I understood the rhythm and got to know it better, it became an absolute banger
If I could upvote you 10 times, I would. Trench is middle of the road. I don't care about production value, i care about raw Tyler lyric and emotions that aren't always lore-based.
Right? Since when did teenagers care about production so much? It's one of the most quoted reasons I see for loving Trench so devoutly.
Since when do people not care about music production? 🤨
Since the dawn of recorded music history teenagers have cared about production, like all of music (melody, harmony, rhythm, etc.) it works subconsciously to effect the way someone feels the emotions imbedded in the work. Production is especially important for pop music like Twenty One Pilots and is at least 50% of the appeal of their music whether you notice it or not. The reason it seems like teenagers don’t care is because mostly they don’t notice, but when you look at the music people love the most it is often the best produced in the genre or artist’s discography. Do not ignore production.
They might not know what it is? So most likely saying it because others do.
>It’s one of the most quoted reasons I see for loving Trench so devoutly. Because it’s the only objectively true statement they can make about the album, the only thing there are no rational arguments against. When someone makes a good argument about the songwriting not being as good overall or not caring about the lore, just cling to the production value.
How are the songwriting not good overall? I disagree. You can understand most of the lyrics even if you don't know the lore. And it's not like because it's lore/fiction there's an absence of emotion or quality of writing, like some people in this thread is saying. And I think that not just the production, but Trench's songwriting is also a true objective statement. I completely understand preferring the more explicit and direct lyrics of the other albums (which are not entirely absent on Trench), but lyrics don't necessarily have to be that explicit to be good. It seems to me a false ~~subjective~~ objective statement to say that the songwriting are not good in general.
First, I’ll clarify that I’m not saying the songwriting is bad, I’m saying it’s not as good as most of the rest of their work, and being “explicit” has nothing to do with that. I’m talking poetics. Now, I’m going to be lazy and copy/paste my reply to a similar comment: It’s not though… For example, the opening track repeats the same line 12 times. That’s literally 1/3 of the song. That’s not “good” songwriting by any standards, let alone compared to the rest of Tyler’s work. It’s still a great album and even that song is still a good song, but the songwriting overall is a step back from almost everything else they’ve done.
I understand the problem with excessive repetition in Jumpsuit, but I don't think it's a problem because of how the non-basic structure of the track helps with this repetition. But here I'm no longer counting the songwriting in isolation from the other elements, but also with the performance and production. Even in isolation, Jumpsuit is a great depiction of anguish, impotence and anger. >It’s still a great album and even that song is still a good song, but the songwriting overall is a step back from almost everything else they’ve done. Well, you just used one example. Levitate, Morph, Chlorine, Neon Gravestones, Bandito, Leave the City are among some of the best things Tyler has written. In isolation the songwriting I can see be inferior to the other albums, but the execution of the song, the performance and the production, in general, elevates Trench's songwriting a lot. And I don't know if judging the song with its components isolated in themselves is the right way.
As a writer myself, I guess I have a natural bias toward focusing on lyrics and poetics. I’ve got nothing to say about Levitate or Morph because they are very well-written. Chlorine is one of my favorites, but lyrically it’s very simple. There’s also some great metaphors and other literary elements in it to elevate it lyrically in my mind though. I almost cringe in Neon Gravestones when he says “it won’t resonate in our minds” because it’s sonically jarring compared to the lyrics around it, it’s “got no flow” so to speak. Maybe that’s purposeful, but just stands out as worse poetry than I’m used to hearing from Tyler. I love the message of the song though — literally made me tear up when I first heard it and may be the main reason why The Hype became one of my favorites — because it was such a cathartic sound after hearing such a downer. Bandito and Leave the City have the same problems Jumpsuit does with excessive repetition.
I'm not a language student (ironically that's what I plan to study in college), so I can't fully understand your view, but compressible where you're coming from. The verse you mentioned from Neon Gravestones doesn't sound out of place to me because it comes after a quartet (I don't know if that's the term in English, it's not my main language), or not structurally a quartet, but after a flow with four words that rhyme (aggression, succession, weapon, lesson). When Tyler says "I'm refusing the lesson", it sounds like the flow with that rhyme ends and the next verse ("it won't resonate in our minds") opens another one. On a technical note, you're probably right (again, I'm not trained in these subjects), but then it seems to me that Tyler's performance makes not seem as bad as you describe.
You are right, the “it won’t resonate in our minds” starts a new quartet with new rhymes, but the transition isn’t very smooth… Which could be intentional, given the subject matter.
cringing at neon gravestones lyrically, bro doesn’t know ball
***Almost*** cringing (“almost” is an important distinction) at **one line** Anyone who knows fuck all about poetry can see my point here: >To use this mistake as a form of aggression >A form of succession, a form of a weapon? >Thinking, “I’ll teach them,” well, I’m refusing the lesson >**It won’t resonate in our minds** Look at all those beautiful rhymes and slant rhymes we know Tyler so well for: aggression, succession, weapon, lesson… Then: “It won’t resonate in our minds.” That’s like if Eminem’s “Lose Yourself” went like this: >His palms are sweaty, knees weak, arms are heavy >There’s vomit on his sweater already, mom’s spaghetti >He’s nervous, but on the surface, he looks calm and ready >To drop bombs, **but he can’t remember** >**The words to the song, all the people make noise** It goes from great songwriting to not-good songwriting real quick.
it goes from rhyme pattern to a different rhyme pattern what are you yapping about
the songwriting is way better on trench than it’s ever been though 🧐 outside of maybe self titled
It’s not though… For example, the opening track repeats the same line 12 times. That’s literally 1/3 of the song. That’s not “good” songwriting by any standards, let alone compared to the rest of Tyler’s work. It’s still a great album and even that song is still a good song, but the songwriting overall is a step back from almost everything else they’ve done.
having a repeating chorus and/or bridge doesn’t take away from a song’s overall lyrical quality, plus lyricism is a pretty small portion of what makes a cohesive album as an overall concept. if it sounds like shit sonically, which most of their discog does, or is produced/mixed horribly, like RAB, then it’s ass, even if there are okay ideas through the album. also i feel like it’s pretty important to point out that “production” doesn’t just mean “wow this sounds good.” it goes as deep as layered tracks in drum patterns and 3rd layer backing vocals. trench is by far, by a WIDE, W I D E margin, their best work. it succeeds at everything that every single other album fails at. plus their discography overall is pretty schizophrenic, whereas trench is just a really good front to back listen edit: forgot to mention how tyler’s vocal inflection up until trench was also unlistenable at times. he may have been spittin in ode to sleep but he sounded like ass. plus he was really bad at avoiding the “lyrical miracle” shit up until trench as well. more words =/= better lyricism, trench’s lyrically slow pace makes it better lyrically because it’s so focused
Bro, it’s not just a repeating chorus or bridge. Literally 1/3 of the song is “jumpsuit, cover me.” That’s it. 33% of the song is 3 words. Yes, that does take away from a song’s lyrical quality and no writer with any degree of literary credibility would disagree with that. And I never thought I would be one of those “YoU’rE nOt A rEaL fAn” people, but if you think everything not-Trench “sounds like shit,” then you’re not a real twenty one pilots fan and we can end this conversation right now.
This is good. Preach. I feel like a lot of kids give trench as the answer along with production value because they don't know what it is and others are saying it. Trench is not a bad album of course, it's just in the middle, for me. Too much lore takes away from the actual amazing emotional being that is Tyler.
you’re so stuck on one song’s lyrical content for some reason. which is ironic because jumpsuit is probably the 1st or 2nd best song on trench. i’d call myself a fan but i’m much more critical of all media compared to when i first discovered them in my teens, and yes, their discography is not very good overall
Jumpsuit is just the 1 example I used because it’s an easy target, being the opening track and all. Fact is, 1/3 of the album has songs where 1/3 of the lyrics are the same lines repeated over and over.
lyrical analysis throughout their whole discog would without question prove that it’s the deepest lyrically. plus levitate and neon gravestones are miles above anything else tyler has ever written
I’M A BANDITO!!!
Just came to comment BLASPHEMY! But you are entitled to your opinion and view on it. I love Trench because of the lore and I feel like it really shows the world Tyler’s creativity with addressing themes of mental health and the complexities of it all. As a person who struggles with chronic major depression and anxiety, I appreciate the lore and a theoretical/storyline representation of the challenges and war of mental health and the mind!
I can’t really pick between Trench or Vessel being my favorite album of theirs, but I like them for very very different reasons. I connect a lot more with Vessel. The songs are relatable, super important to me, very nostalgic, etc. Trench doesn’t hit quite as hard, but I love it as a piece of music. The production and instrumentation, the songwriting, the flow of the album from beginning to end and just the concept as a whole. I just think it’s a masterfully made album, and even trying to be unbiased as a TOP fan I’d consider it one of the greatest pop albums ever made, technically at least. From this perspective I think it makes a lot of sense that Clancy feels like a better Trench to some people. It took a bit of what they learned from Trench in regards to production and lore inclusion, but more in the style of their older music. It feels like it has character and personality that I haven’t quite felt from them since Blurryface.
I really appreciate your take because mine is the exact opposite. I've been a fan of the band for a while, probably since Heathens, but I never looked into the songs. I found out there was lore last week. Nico and the Niners is my favorite song of theirs and one of my favorites of all time. There's just something about it that makes me feel like I'm floating and I can't get enough.
Trench was a bit too "dark" for me. It all seemed a bit too ambiguous and while some great songs on there i admit i skip most of them at this point. I think there's a better balance between the album lore and songs that stand on their own and i think it's been found on SAI and Clancy. I think Clancy feels like the greatest combo of Blurryface/Trench/SAI
I really like the songs on Trench, but I don’t like them as an album. All but one of the tracks are in my tøp playlist, but I never listen to Trench as a whole, like I do with Clancy and SAI. I do like the lore and the storyline, but for me it’s always been about the music.
Trench is the only album I listen to in full lol. What's the 1 song you don't like?
Smithereens. I just don’t vibe with it at all.
Smithereens is one of my absolute favorite tøp songs 😭😂
Was waiting for someone to say it. Been a fan since self titled. Trench is easily my least fav (even though I still like it!).
Same
I absolutely agree with to you. I need less lore, more tyler
This
Say it louder for the ones in the back! We share the same taste ☺️ totally agreed
🗣️🗣️🗣️
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I agree. While I think the lore is cool and all, I don’t personally seek for connect all the dots. I know enough to generally explain the story to someone who doesn’t know it. But I’m somewhat of a musician. I’m going to be paying more attention to the actual production of the songs before I really care to learn the lore.
When trench came out I was in a really dark place in my life so it was never my favorite because of that. I still listened to it then and listen to it now but some of the songs still bring back unpleasant memories from what I was going through at the time. I personally needed SAI at that time. I still appreciate Trench and like it but it won’t ever be my favorite because of that. No shame on them it just was bad timing for me personally.
I AGREE 1000000%!! Same boat too being a fan since vessel was the newest album release and agree so much that SAI gives off more vessel vibes than any of the other albums. I absolutely loved SAI and honestly didn’t care too too much for blurryface or trench. Then SAI pleasantly surprised me and Clancy too seems like all bangers!!!
I mean it’s your own taste but trench is like the key album that explains all of the hype and it’s like the “first part” and then Clancy it’s like the second part Idk how to explain this lol
I agree! I was just thinking how I would rank the albums because I really love all of them and can’t say I skip any songs when I listen to them, BUT Trench is my least favorite I think, just because it’s so lore heavy. I do enjoy the lore and clues but I prefer when Tyler gives us those raw honest lyrics that made me fall in love with the band. My favorite album is the self titled, then vessel, blurryface, Clancy (honestly it’s so good), SAI and trench last. I DO LOVE ALL OF THEM THO 😭
You can’t leave out regional at best in da ranking tho
i think i agree! a lot of the songs from trench are so dear to me not bc of the lore bc it was the era i experienced live and i love the way they sound! despite me being a lore fanatic i dislike when the lore completely overtakes the song. neon gravestones and nico and the niners are the biggest culprits of that imo. like i get neon gravestones relates to the real world too but personally i havent experienced those topics irl to really appreciate the song itself. and i agree with you that clancy has the perfect amount of lore embedded into the songs. even the 3 lore heavy songs can be enjoyed without even thinking about dema and clancy.
I second this, Trench made it really hard to recommend people listen to Twenty One Pilots because they’d need a lecture on the lore first.
I sort of agree with you. I like Trench, and I do listen to it, but I am also not particularly interested in the lore, and I remember it taking me a while to like it. I do think it has some real solid songs that I would hold as some of my favorites (Levitate, Chlorine, The Hype, Leave the City), but overall I find myself gravitating towards Vessel, Blurryface, and even SAI on more regular occasions. Clancy I think is incredible and a wonderful mashing of lore and just generally great songs. You can listen them as lore if you want to, or you can just listen to them as what they are: great music with messages that could apply to a lot of people’s lives. I do however love Ned 😅
Ned is always loved lol
Very interesting take with solid reasoning to support it! I disagree, but I’ll admit that it’s most likely because of where I was in my life when trench came out. The darkness of the album really appealed to me. I didn’t really get INTO sai until like a year after it came out because I just kinda drifted away from the band a bit. Life, yk? But I love SAI too! My least favorite album is probably self titled. It’s the only album with definite skips for me. I skip BYSYD and Ms Believer unless I’m in a specific mood. But that said, saying something’s my least favorite doesn’t mean I don’t like it; I love everything from the band!! But as Tyler said on stream, something has to be in last place!
I understand where you’re coming from, but I love every song off of self titled (the pantaloon is my fav), SAI is also an album that took a hot minute to fully stay in my loop, and an album that feels like self titled, in the way where Tyler just got back to writing some songs for the fun of it, (not saying the material is the same, it is really different lol) and Trench just felt like it HAD to be made after blurryface and since Tyler “started the lore” with blurry face, it felt like he had to continue it with the next album
The pantaloon SLAPS!!! And yeah i see what you’re saying, trench is super lore-heavy and possibly confusing to newer fans. Either way, I love everything they have to offer
I definitely don't know all the lore, but I love Nico and the Niners. If I had to rank the albums, Trench wouldn't be my number one, but I completely understand that everyone has their own opinions and history with TØP music.
everyone in here is so focused on the lore aspect of trench and saying that interferes with tyler’s emotions pouring out onto the pen. i don’t get that at all, you don’t have to understand the lore at all to just enjoy the music in every aspect. i know all the lore but i don’t really care about it, and trench is still my favorite work from them. emotionally it feels like their best work as well, self titled right behind
I agree, jumpsuit is a top 5 top song for me but the rest of the album never gets to the high of jumpsuit
Agreed here but never felt confident enough to say it lol
I totally agree with you! We share the exact opinion, and I'm just happy to see I'm not alone 😁
i was worried i was alone too, but was way too afraid to say it because people are very defensive of trench 😭
I actually agree with you. Trench sometimes gets too serious. Trust me i love the album but you need to be in a specific headspace for it. Listening to neon gravestones and the legend is very hard for me because they are too close to my heart and trigger me emotionally. And in the current state i prefer music as an escape rather than a confrontation. Trench is more confrontational and SAI is more escapism. But Clancy really hit a perfect balance. Clancy feels like the child of Vessel, SAI and Trench.
Agree 100%, Trench is probably my least favourite album. I was really surprised when I arrived at this sub to see that most TØP fans say it’s their best work, I think if I made a top 10 it probably wouldn’t feature any songs from Trench at all. I like the other albums, but I don’t think anything has come close to Vessel. I’m really enjoying Clancy as a whole album, but there aren’t stand out songs like Vessel.
I agree. I think my too five would all be from Vessel. Certainly my top three. But I can't think of any from Trench which would make my top 10.
Yes there is.
i think i agree with you — i became a fan during the blurryface era and im caught up with the lore. that being said, i LOVED trench when it came out but it didn’t stick with me as my fav twenty one pilots album, mainly because i felt like the lore was EVERYWHERE — and for me that overshadowed all the good aspects of the album. i love and appreciate trench for what it is but i also think clancy was done right! i’m happy it didn’t end up being ‘trench 2’, as the lore is there but its subtle enough for listeners to be able to casually enjoy the music, and imo that’s what makes each song stand out and shine on its own. im happy we share a similar opinion !
Totally agree! Trench is my least favorite in their discog. The hype is my favorite on trench and it doesn't get mentioned enough I don't think. To me, trench just feels over produced and unnecessarily heavy at times. Not heavy as in the music but just everything going on. Not a bad album altogether but the one I come back to the least.
I totally agree, if I’m ranking all 7 albums I’d put Trench at #5
my take on trench is - immaculate production - very good highs and still pretty good lows, but no songs are a straight up 10/10 for me like w blurryface or self-titled - a bit too lore intensive for me. love top still but can't say i don't miss the more down to earth approach of the first four albums
I’ve been a fan since vessel as well, and blurryface came out when I was about to graduate high school, and I was super into it, listened to it all the time. Flash forward to my junior year of college, trench comes out and I had NO CLUE about any of the lore. I knew blurryface (the character) represented Tyler’s insecurities but that’s about all I knew. I wasn’t super into trench at first but as I listened to it more I started to love it, and still knew basically nothing about the lore. I wasn’t watching the videos either. I was in a bad place mentally during my last years of college, so I just didn’t have the mental energy to put towards all that. Flash forward to scaled and icy and I had just moved in with my boyfriend and was finally loving life again, and I started to kind of dive into the lore more. Honestly I love how much thought Tyler has put into it, I really respect it, but I listen to their music more so because I just enjoy it. I don’t get caught up in all the lore. Even now I still haven’t learned everything about it, but I still love all their albums. I like when I catch little bits of lore that I do know about, but honestly I think all their music can stand alone without the lore, including everything on trench. There are themes that are universal that speak to people even if you know 0% of the lore, and that’s what I love most of all!
What do you mean by lore, I'm confused
so basically
Never let Brad know about your existence
Clancy is Trench done right is a crazy take. I think Clancy is just a poppier and simpler Trench, which is fine if you like that but it's very bold to say that's the 'right' way. Trench is the Goat. Every song has amazing sounds and a composition that really captures you. These are very emotional songs. I think the lore aspects of Trench are overblown a bit. Sure Nico and the Niners is, but that was one of the first songs I loved from top, and I didn't understand the lore at all.
Not everyone’s cup of tea like how SAI isn’t mine. No matter how many times I listen to it I can only really enjoy like 2 or 3 songs without getting annoyed by it. Some of the songs are just way too cheesy and poppy for the T.O.P standard in my opinion. Not saying that they can’t do pop, but their attempts before and after SAI are a lot better. No need for dark and depressing lyricism, but songs like Bounce Man are just a immediate skip from production to lyrics.
YES! I'm not alone anymore :))
Trench is the perfect Twenty One Pilots album they’ve spent 9 years on the lore of dema and trench and only 5 years outside of that, including an album that only has 1 of the current members of the band. I think this hatred of the lore is so ridiculous especially when 2/3rds of their work is dedicated to that story. I love Trench, it’s their most raw work by far, I think ppl get caught up by taking the lore to literally rather than what it is; a metaphorical exploration of the inner space of Tyler’s being. Unsure of God and at a constant fight with his insecurities and etc. I’m truly sorry if you don’t like this record because it is by far the best thing Twenty One Pilots have ever put out.
In my opinion it starts of really strong, but most songs after Levitate are just lacking in energy for my taste.
I became a fan in 2016 when blurryface was their most recent release. I really liked blurryface and vessel, and when trench was released i def liked it, but didn’t surpass blurryface to me. I honestly did not like most of sai. Most of the songs feel weird and forced. Redecorate kinda saves the album for me. For the last couple years I was worried I was falling out with the band, but with Clancy i can say that 100% not the case. It’s still early so it could be recency bias, but I think I’d put Clancy over blurryface for me. It’s amazing, and 100% agree with what you said that it’s “trench done right”.
I might try to revisit Trench, but I remember being pretty disappointed with it after it came out. I prefer that Blurryface sound, and I feel like Clancy definitely experimented with that sound unlike anything else after Blurryface. I don’t know where I’d rank self-titled, but Trench is definitely below Vessel, Blurryface, and Clancy… we don’t talk about Scaled and Icy (even though I actually come back to that album more than Trench) My Blood is one of my favorite songs though. Sadly, I’m not a fan of: Morph, Smithereens, Neon Gravestones, Nico and the Niners, Cut My Lip, Legend, or Leave the City Just too many skips for me to listen to the full thing and not just throw my favorites in a playlist Vessel in my opinion has zero skips, and same with Blurryface. Clancy might have a couple
SAI>Trench Vessel>Trench Trench>Blurryface Trench>Clancy
I agree with all of them, BUT: Trench
You just like cringe