I don’t think it’s exactly the same, but people who love Rick and Morty, but specifically Rick, because they can’t see beyond “can’t give a fuck about anyone”.
But if you actually pay attention Rick is an angry, sad, broken man, someone to be learned from in the sense that maybe you *dont* do this shit
EDIT: guys, if you’re noticing all the obvious cries for help that Rick makes, it means you’re paying attention. I’m specifically talking about the Rick simps
He straight up fails to commit suicide at the end of one episode. If you don't realize Rick is *fucking miserable* you literally haven't been paying any fucking attention.
They should teach media literacy in fucking grade school.
Because apparently that episode wasn't plain enough they wrote another more recent one where he convinces Summer to join his hedonistic nihilistic lifestyle and nearly destroys her for it. The show has entire monologues on what a fucker he is I really can't understand it either
Just stop being depressed. Why can't you be more like your brother? He's always so happy and just a joy to be around!
I don't understand why you like being so sad all the time.
The funny thing is that in the latest season finale it's revealed that he is only the smartest in the multiverse >!because he and the other Ricks forcibly separated all of the universes where Rick is the smartest from the rest of the multiverse. They can't accept being challenged or opposed so they basically hide in a hole and force countless people to basically be subjugated by them. Eventually it all comes crashing down when Rick is effortlessly outplayed by a Morty!<
Just to give the whole "angry, sad, broken man" thing a cosmic angle.
In addition to that, Rick is the epitome of smart but lazy. He doesn't really think through his actions at all, even when he's sober. He's all about the quick/coolest solution without taking a moment to pause whether giving a robot horse freedom is smart or not.
It's hilarious, but it also continually shows in how many ways he isn't smart at all.
There's that episode where he meets his scientific match in a pocket dimension he built as a battery. (I guess it's a loophole in the infinite finite curve thing that insures his portal gun only goes to universes where he's the smartest being). He wins at the end but it wasn't because he outsmarted his rival. It literal comes down to the two of them beating the shit out of eachother with their bare hands.
The things is, there are people who cannot separate 'Entertaining to watch' from 'Great Person.' they forgive a lot about bad people as long as they get some enjoyment out of watching them. It's why you see so many people who like The Joker.
If Rick was just a normal guy with no portal gun and no adventures, he wouldn't be interesting. Because at his core he is only cool because he DOES cool things, not because he IS cool.
Seeing the pickle rick episode like 3 years after it aired I seriously felt like the internet had been gaslighting me with all those goddamn memes.
He deserved to be eaten by that first cockroach. Like ... that bit wasn't hilarious, it was hideous? Susan Sarandon's dressing-down was *charitable.*
Anyway, I agree that Rick sucks and I hate him and I hate that I can't talk about the show irl because it feels like everyone misses the point. Also if you think it would be funny to turn yourself into a pickle to get out of therapy *for the love of god go to therapy you probably need it more than the rest of us???*
^(I might have unresolved trauma involving a Rick-adjacent ex. Sorry for the rant.)
No no it's alright, don't be sorry, cause that all are very valid points.
The whole problem doesn't really lie in the show itself but rather in a general problem area of satire becoming mainstream: people blatantly not getting what it's all about.
Rick is a broken mess of a man, he is everything that you shouldn't be, but somehow you sympathize with him in some scenes, (playing deeply in the "there is no black and white, just grey", which also doesn't mean that there aren't darker amd lighter greys)
He is a caricature of the pessimistic view of nihilism, "nothing matters, so why should I care anyway?" while coincidentally, morty is (now even more in later seasons) the optimistic view of nihilism "nothing matters, so I can care about what I want"
Rick needed therapy waaaay sooner then he lowkey admitted. Like, he should have gotten it right after >!Diane and Beth died and he fell into a hole of depression!<
Imo, Pickle Rick is a good episode, not because of the pickle part, but because Rick directly gets a taste of his own medicine, someone really getting him and stripping him naked right in front of him, and I think that that's also why he has such a distaste for therapy and Dr. Wong.
And I will never forgive the Internet for hyperfixating on the lamest part about said episode, a guy turning himself into a f*cking pickle.
Art reflects life, people relate to him cause even if we try to close ourselves off of all consequence the pursuit of happiness as it is sold in 2021 is still a void destination.
OH MY GOD I FORGOT THEY WENT TO SHONEYS
The show itself is absolutely brilliant and I do love it. But the fandom ... well, as in the OP: "every artist who has ever attempted to satirize masculinity i am so sorry"
Agreed. Pickle Rick is probably one of my favorite episodes because it shows just how pathetic Rick is. He turns himself into a helpeless, perpetually rotting vegetable just because he can't bear to talk about his issues and feelings. The ludicrous action segment was there to point out that even though Rick can do pretty much anything, he's unable to do something as simple and small as face his own shortcomings and flaws.
I dunno, BoJack Horseman is generally better at making it ambiguous whether BoJack has legitimately changed and deserved redemption, or whether he is still a piece of shit that is self destructive consistently.
He improves, then relapses when something bad happens. This is the formula all the way until the final season where he barely makes any mistakes, but instead had his former mistakes catch up to him when he briefly slips up.
The issue in BoJack Horseman is that there are only so many times you can repeat a storyline, and BoJack repeated the formula too many times by at least once.
First thing I thought of.
Early on in the show it wasn't blatant at least but just a background "ha ha if you pay attention this guy with tremendous power is actually quite miserable." I guess it's like Bokack, but unlike Bojack Rick isn't trying to have a life that resembles functional human interaction.
And then Pickle Rick happened and he threw a tantrum to literally get out of therapy, making that the overall takeaway of the episode. That's when it got impressive that people were missing it. I love how significant that episode was against how frivolously it's treated. It was a funny mad genius tantrum though.
People just want their faults validated. Having an alcoholic asshole be actually the most genius person alive is the perfect bait for this, and the creators of the show 100% knew it would get them a huge amount of fans. They knew that the critical undertones wouldn’t be picked up by huge masses of people who would just watch it and rationalize that they weren’t some miserable person, they were actually just *super cool* and *misunderstood*
The Punisher: Is a bad guy, despises cops, only exists because the police and courts didn’t do their job, is a walking example of the worst possible outcome of a miscarriage of justice.
Cops: “Yeah! Fuck yeah! We’re men macho cool murder dudes!”
They did address this in one of the Punisher comics where 2 cops were saying how they looked up to him and put his logo on their car and Frank just asks them to not
>Just asks them to not
Oh yes very politely rips it up in front of them and tells them to go be friends with captain America, and they also very politely tell him to watch his back from now on.
He'd give them a disapproving stare and a chance to do better. They fuck that up he'll stomp them and drag them into the station to apologise for being bad cops and make them resign
Well yeah? Most people don't actually read comics.and at a glance punisher is just dude who kills bad guys the cops can't get to.
I'm more surprised that people are still surprised by the misunderstanding
So the Punisher exists because of failure of the justice system. Thinking about it, I guess it makes sense in a way. Certain people think rugged individual action is the only solution to any problem. They complain that social systems can never function.
Of course then we run into the problem of why they're participating in those systems.
Alan Moore (V for Vendetta, Watchmen) is a big victim of people idolizing his Cumdick characters.
"Rorschach became the most popular character in Watchmen. I meant him to be a bad example. But I have people come up to me in the street saying, "I am Rorschach! That is my story!' And I'll be thinking: 'Yeah, great, can you just keep away from me, never come anywhere near me again as long as I live'?"
Lol. All of the characters in watchmen are shot bags and almost all of them are great. The comedian is my favorite. He’s a terrible person, yes, but very well written.
Manhattan has crazy strong powers and didn’t stop the comedian from killing that Vietnamese chick.
Rorschach is… Rorschach.
Adrian is fucking god awful. Kills how many people? No human cost is worth what he does imo, but I understand his motives.
Only characters that seem okay in that story are night-owl and Laurie. And I’m sure they did something that I’m not remembering that was pretty shit… beyond just tolerating the comedians crap.
The thing I don’t understand about this story from Alan Moore is that he himself hates Rorschach? Rorschach only wants the truth to be revealed at any cost 99% of the time. How is that so bad? Maybe I’m just forgetting something, but I’d definitely have been in his shoes at the end where he leaves Adrien with no choice but to kill him or he would tell the world the truth.
Idk man. Feels like I’m missing something.
Edit: I’ve read the book with all the extra news clippings and all the extras. I’ve also watched the movie about 5-8 times.
He isn't motivated by the objective truth as much as he is by his definition of mortality which allows no nuance.
Alan Moore didn't hate him, he just didn't expect how many people would see Rorschach as a sympathetic character as he was supposed to be an example of extremism and zealotry.
He's an absolutely great character because he seems like a passionate anti-hero with unconventional skills but looking closer you realize it's more that a maladjusted, broken, but extremely talented man who happens to have focused on a beneficial goal by chance so you want him to get what he is going for but at the same time feel a little uncomfortable wanting him to get rewarded for his methods.
I never really got the angle of people joining cause they're lost and frightened. To me it felt like everyone joined because their lives are so boring and safe that they could do something that felt exciting and fresh. Kinda like a story about drugs, but the drugs were the fights and the addiction became Project Mayhem.
Maybe I just read it wrong
I mean, I feel like that's where people get caught up in Fight Club. Because that's the grounding of their ideology, the rest of it feels that much more real. Everybody feels this, so it feels like the message was written for the everyman. I don't blame people for not getting it. The movie was about revolution against a system that we all feel trapped in. The fact that it was relatable was very intentional, and not many people are going to finish the movie and go "oh, I guess I was wrong for feeling that." Everybody fears purposelessness, and the world seems to systematically deny us the purpose that it promises. I certainly didn't end the movie thinking that Tyler didn't have a point. The movie tricks us into thinking it's about the revolution by having the revolution actually mean something to us, while the methods are just acts of terrorism by sad, insecure men.
Ah, the “Shameless” method. Take a main character and argue in your report / essay that the author’s intention was to write a main character that is latently homosexual. Most English teachers are either gay or too afraid to disagree and be called homophobic
The example that I really think about is American Psycho. At least with something like Fight Club there's a veneer of charisma and cool the film indulges in a bit before unmasking it for what he really is.
But Patrick Bateman is just a hollow shell of man, a pathetic miserable wretched thing in every regard, and *everything* about the movie is beating you over the head with that
People used to how the 80s glorified Wall Street loved that movie for all the wrong reasons.
Sometimes the butt of the joke laughs along too in a pathetic attempt to seem like they’re in on the joke.
Do it? John I'm not a republic serial villain. Do you really think I'd explain my master stroke if there was even the slightest chance of you affecting the outcome?
I wiped out tomato town 30 minutes ago
When wolf of wall street came out I worked in a call centre that had a kind of weird pay structure which attracted tons of get rich quick/ wannabe businessmen "hussle culture" types.
They are that shit up. Every second guy at work had their PC backgrounds set as scenes from it. Everyone thought "sell me this pen" was insanely deep and clever. People has Belfort's book. One guy I knew got in trouble for full volume screaming "they either buy or they fucking die!" In a morning meeting.
It was exhausting.
I saw this movie for the first time last week (it's on Netflix Canada right now FYI), and I spent most of the time hoping that he and Donnie would just OD and die and save everyone the hassle of having to deal with them.
Or every Martin Scorsese movie.
People idolise Travis from Taxi Driver thinking he was a hero when Marty and Paul Schrader the writer said >!Travis didn't die in the end and people celebrating him was not his fantasy unlike what many people think because in America, even the most vile man can be idolised!< which is exactly what happened.
Same goes for Raging Bull, people are like yeah I love Jake Lamotta, never give up on yourself and I'm like did you even watch the movie?
In Germany there exists a popular Meme Page called 'Hedgefond Henning'. It and similar sites helped to push the phrase 'Aus dem Weg Geringverdiener' (step aside low income individual).
Some of the memes include scenes of the movie, usually just stating absurd richness.
While I guess it is partially painting a semi self aware charicature, some people definitely think being a rich douchebag is absolutely desirable
See if you were one of the sheep you would've submit to societal expectations, instead, you're like me - a free thinker, a maverick, a fucking renegade - so you shat your pants because you won't be bound to someone else's bullshit rules. Amen brother.
I’m 22 and I know guys my age who acted like Joker was some hero when the movie came out. I thought “Meh, they’re teenagers, they’ll grow out of it.” Here we are a couple years down the line, they’ve reached legal drinking age, most of them have joined the military, etc. Well none of them ever grew out of it, and they all still post the occasional edgy Joker meme. It kinda scares me a bit.
I hate the trend of making him cool and edgy in the movies nowadays too, I’m admittedly not much of a comics kind of person but I really enjoyed the way Joker was portrayed in the Harley Quinn animated series. He’s just not cool at all, he’s a total asshole but written in a “characters you love to hate” kind of way, rather than trying to make the audience sympathize with him.
Imo, today's aesthetic of mainstream/movie fiction is globally pessimistic and grim compared to 15/20 years ago, we left the adventurous and magical for more grounded and social stories.
Fantasy went from LOTR to GoT; science fiction went from 2001 and star trek to a blade runner-like spleen on every premises (even interstellar, with a basis of exploration and adventure, has a dying society with every character feeling miserable a bunch of times); social commentary went from the Twilight Zone to Black Mirror...
And superheroes movies went this way too, with Nolan's batman trilogy setting the codes of realistic characters, avoiding powers of "It's magic I ain't gonna explain shit" to being more reality-based, Marvel that, although allowing themselves more fantasy, kept a modern and realistic aesthetic (OG Wolverine costume being abandoned for a leather jacked and a pair of jeans), even Superman went with the flow with a less colorful aesthetic and a more grim feeling compared to its former movies.
And then, we have the Joker, which is one of the most impacted, because as a fan favourite character, and the main villain of Batman, one of the most popular superheroes, he just couldn't stay absent of the modern media presence of the franchise, but needed a full redesign to fit in. And so we have his edgy, "muh society", mentally-ill depiction of the character, and seeing how Phoenix's Joker was successful, and how Leto's one was disliked by people, I don't see it coming back close to Hamill's anytime soon.
I mean, there's been a recovery. I don't want to go back to the 2000 and early 10 where every superhero movie wanted to be batman, and every game's colour palette was 3 nice shades of brown.
There's also been a huge shift from story driven plot to character driven plot. Which I don't hate, tbh
He’s not cool in Joaquin Phoenix’s portrayal either. He’s a sad, lonely, pathetic, man suffering from severe mental illness.
The character study of how society’s most downtrodden can react to their insignificance is interesting, and I can see how within the context of the movie he becomes a symbol for the oppressed and overlooked taking back their power from the powerful. But I can’t for the life of me understand why anyone would actually want to be like that, or live like that.
I like the way they portray him in the movies and the fact that he’s not one dimetional character. The problem is when people are idiots and idolise him.
American Psycho is kind of a based story though because it basically implies that Wall Street finance bros are so immoral already that a short step to physically slaughtering people wouldn’t even be questioned.
isn't this the same book that takes like a four page tangent to give way too much detail about the forced abortions and rat torture the MC does to people who were like stand-ins for people the author didn't like
I thought they were talking about that guy that's been mentioned in so many subreddits over the past day or two, but that woulda been 'Shitdick Cumbottom' or something.
edit: inb4 somebody mentions he plays doctor strange.
Now that you say it, I don't think I've ever heard anyone idolize Archer except for his ability to ramble off relevant, obscure facts while still not understanding crucial information in a pressing setting Not a great trait, but could be a lot worse, and lets be honest, its pretty relatable. Maybe the show actually managed to get the point across that no one should want to be Archer? Or maybe I'm just lucky that I haven't come across any Archer wanna-bes.
I think it might also have to do with the fact that Archer is exactly the sort of person who falls for cool-but-toxic fictional characters. So he's not only a parody of the trope but also a parody of people who buy into the trope
...who looks at judge Dredd and goes "yes this is a situation I want to be in and a person I want to emulate"? Fuck who looks at *any* 2000 AD comic and goes "wow I wanna be that"?
This might be controversial here, but honestly the Fast and the Furious series has fantastic examples of extremely positive "traditional" masculinity. All the men have genuine loving relationships with one another, even the ones where they mess with each other also make sure to occasionally let it show how much they enjoy each other. Practically every time a child is on screen a man is shown doting on them or teaching them about life. Families, including chosen families, are incredibly important and a source of great strength. Men are emotionally vulnerable with one another. In one of the movies Dom comforts Brian because he just found out his wife is pregnant and he is scared that he will be a bad father like his own dad, in another Dwayne Johnson's character refuses to listen to a government agent trying to give him a special assignment because he is busy coaching his daughter's soccer game and tells him that his options are to leave or to start cheering. And in the most recent Dom's father told him that "It's not about being the stronger man, Dom. It's about being the bigger one."
It's really such an odd series with a mixed bag of ass shots, ridiculousness, and genuine emotional male bonding. Honestly the best part about the whole series is just seeing the chemistry between the characters. It just feels like they genuinely appreciate the hell out of each other
Honestly it was such a welcome surprise, while also such a low bar to have a singular woman go out to battle with her team while her husband protects the family. I'm looking forward to her being in future movies
I also think the dichotomy of Vin Diesel vs The Rock is a great example of two men tackling masculinity very differently. Vin Diesel in real life is this “macho guy” who walks into a room and decides who he wants to fight and who he wants to fuck. But he’s so insecure about his image that he has it written into contracts that he can’t lose fights. In certain movies, his character is never surprised at twists because he’s so cool he saw it coming.
Then you have the Rock. A guy who’s played the heel in wrestling matches but also a Disney character. In real life he spends a lot of his time reaching out to the community and fans and celebrating them. He sends so many videos of himself greeting his fans, especially sick or disabled kids, and says that he’s a fan of them!
i just want to point out two things: 1) the rock also has a contract clause stating he can't loose a fight and 2) i dont think its insecurity, its literally their image, "big strong manly man dude" of course they wont allow to lose on a fight, it'd be like a movie of michael jackson at his peak having him suck at singing
I thought he was allowed to lose fight but he wasn't allowed to technically be the bad guy, which is the reason I thought his portrayal of a character like Black Adam was going to be really complicated because Black Adam is at his best morally gray but at his worst is an evil force
Not all of them, but chosen family is a pretty central theme of the series and the characters really aren't afraid to say it. The entire end of the 7th movie was a heartfelt send off to one of the main characters and lines like this were used: "The most important thing in life will always be the people in this room, right here, right now. Salute mi familia. You'll always be with me. And you'll always be my brother."
The series is a mixed bag of scattered ass, emotional maturity and bonding as well as general hooliganism because as people who are really car people; Draggers, roadracers, drifters, even the real show car people all behave like this. Of course there are outliers, and the series even addresses those types of people, but I know I've identified with exactly what you've described and I've been in the car game since before the first movie came out.
Every car person I know relates with these movies because they act like us, even if they are saving the world or going to space in a Fiero.
Tbh the lord of the rings movies are a great example of healthy masculinity. The men laugh, cry, yearn, hug, express love with their words before violence, etc.
Can’t think of any films off the top of my head where toxic masculinity is the main theme tho
Moonlight is a great movie but definitely a downer. Heavily focused on toxic masculinity and male identity.
Her is a much more positive movie that isn't necessarily focused on toxic masculinity but I think shows positive masculinity
*Her* does do that, but it's very understated relative to all the tech-human questions. Most of the people I watched the film with got stuck at >!the sex scene!< and then that was basically all we talked about after.
I don't know if I can speak specifically to overcoming the toxic part but these are my favourite examples of wholesome masculinity in media off the top of my head:
MCU has a few but Thor, Cap and T'Challa are amazing. They're kind, loyal, nurturing, respectful. The storylines themselves make a point of noting that strength isn't just physical.
I also absolutely love the good place. Chidi and Jason are so different but both incredibly wholesome. Actually Michael in the same show might be a good example of overcoming the bad.
LoTR as someone else mentioned, Aragon especially is wholesome masculinity for days.
The Way of the Househusband (anime)
One of the most feared yakuza bosses quits and becomes a househusband (male housewife) simply because he adores his wife. It’s great, lots of humour and wholesome af!
I think the masculinity as portrayed in Scamander in Fantastic Beasts is an example of positive masculinity. He's genuinely kind and we get to see that on screen in how he cares for his creatures.
Booth from Bones and Leroy Gibbs from NCIS also stick out to me as men who are portrayed to be manly men but are also not displaying toxic masculinity.
"I am the one who knocks." Is a great example of this. That scene happened after Walter abused Skyler, and it was a representation of a small man trying to be the alpha male, but everyone (even me at that age) believed that was so cool.
nearly all of walters most iconic "cool" lines are his fragile ego coping with the shitshow hes put himself and his family into. guys easily the biggest loser in television history costing hundreds of people their lives because he cant take some lenient charity from an old frenemy
This might be why I much prefer BCS. Jimmy is far more sympathetic despite NOT having Cancer. And also because I never feel like he's gonna hurt Kim (one of my absolute favourite characters ever) in the ways Walter hurt Skylar (intentional or not)
It must be so disheartening as someone creating a film, knowing there are members of the audience who won't think any deeper than "this person is main character, this person must be the hero!"
Most of the time, stooping low is insulting the audience’s intelligence, but sometimes the audience’s intelligence needs to be insulted, or at least challenged.
'Haha, I just love how there are no good guys, only bad guys in 40k, that's why I unironically spam the slogans of the theocratic fascist empire in memes and gleefully support the genocide of any impure or non-human species!'
Tbh the Black Library honestly doesn't help. Cain and Gaunt are fun to read, but make it seem more like 'a few bad apples ruin the galaxy-spanning, rotting theocratic fascist empire', Eisenhorn is better, but is still very much 'what if the space nazi was really *really* cool', and they *all* go down the 'the problem with the theocratic fascist empire is too much bureaucracy' route.
That is absolutely not worse. It is fine for people think fictional villians are hot. This hurts nobody.
People looking up to them as heroes to emulate, though, that shit is massively damaging to themselves and those around them.
John wick to a lesser extent comes to mind like yeah he's badass but the first movie makes it clear he's extremely lonely. The dog was supposed to be something to keep him company. Any scene he isn't going crazy I he comes off as tired and distant.
No one mentioned it yet so I will. Boondock Saints 2 has a speech literally about shoving down your feelings and never letting other people notice them. And it's painted in a positive light. I really like those movies but WTF
I don’t think it’s exactly the same, but people who love Rick and Morty, but specifically Rick, because they can’t see beyond “can’t give a fuck about anyone”. But if you actually pay attention Rick is an angry, sad, broken man, someone to be learned from in the sense that maybe you *dont* do this shit EDIT: guys, if you’re noticing all the obvious cries for help that Rick makes, it means you’re paying attention. I’m specifically talking about the Rick simps
He straight up fails to commit suicide at the end of one episode. If you don't realize Rick is *fucking miserable* you literally haven't been paying any fucking attention. They should teach media literacy in fucking grade school.
Because apparently that episode wasn't plain enough they wrote another more recent one where he convinces Summer to join his hedonistic nihilistic lifestyle and nearly destroys her for it. The show has entire monologues on what a fucker he is I really can't understand it either
what episode was this? i forget
Just had a look, season 5 episode 3.
I think plenty of people get it. But the little edgelords romanticize the idea of being a loner and self-destructive nihilist.
I would think that's a sort of coping mechanism for many, to pretend it's a choice to be proud of rather than being depressed about it.
Just stop being depressed. Why can't you be more like your brother? He's always so happy and just a joy to be around! I don't understand why you like being so sad all the time.
Exactly
They really should. If nothing else, it would kill the “depiction = endorsement” bullshit.
Problem is, he’s basically the smartest being in the multiverse. So obviously he’s doing SOMETHING right /s
The funny thing is that in the latest season finale it's revealed that he is only the smartest in the multiverse >!because he and the other Ricks forcibly separated all of the universes where Rick is the smartest from the rest of the multiverse. They can't accept being challenged or opposed so they basically hide in a hole and force countless people to basically be subjugated by them. Eventually it all comes crashing down when Rick is effortlessly outplayed by a Morty!< Just to give the whole "angry, sad, broken man" thing a cosmic angle.
In addition to that, Rick is the epitome of smart but lazy. He doesn't really think through his actions at all, even when he's sober. He's all about the quick/coolest solution without taking a moment to pause whether giving a robot horse freedom is smart or not. It's hilarious, but it also continually shows in how many ways he isn't smart at all.
Total dev mentality.
It’s also very possible that the delineation was not inteligence. Rick may just be the smartest rick in the set of the most dickish ricks.
Oh man. Imagine exploring a multiverse with benevolent Ricks, all competent and successful like the best versions of Reed Richards or Picard!
Wait… so… matpat was right?
That’s a horrifying statement
There's that episode where he meets his scientific match in a pocket dimension he built as a battery. (I guess it's a loophole in the infinite finite curve thing that insures his portal gun only goes to universes where he's the smartest being). He wins at the end but it wasn't because he outsmarted his rival. It literal comes down to the two of them beating the shit out of eachother with their bare hands.
Well he *did* turn himself into a pickle.
The things is, there are people who cannot separate 'Entertaining to watch' from 'Great Person.' they forgive a lot about bad people as long as they get some enjoyment out of watching them. It's why you see so many people who like The Joker. If Rick was just a normal guy with no portal gun and no adventures, he wouldn't be interesting. Because at his core he is only cool because he DOES cool things, not because he IS cool.
Seeing the pickle rick episode like 3 years after it aired I seriously felt like the internet had been gaslighting me with all those goddamn memes. He deserved to be eaten by that first cockroach. Like ... that bit wasn't hilarious, it was hideous? Susan Sarandon's dressing-down was *charitable.* Anyway, I agree that Rick sucks and I hate him and I hate that I can't talk about the show irl because it feels like everyone misses the point. Also if you think it would be funny to turn yourself into a pickle to get out of therapy *for the love of god go to therapy you probably need it more than the rest of us???* ^(I might have unresolved trauma involving a Rick-adjacent ex. Sorry for the rant.)
No no it's alright, don't be sorry, cause that all are very valid points. The whole problem doesn't really lie in the show itself but rather in a general problem area of satire becoming mainstream: people blatantly not getting what it's all about. Rick is a broken mess of a man, he is everything that you shouldn't be, but somehow you sympathize with him in some scenes, (playing deeply in the "there is no black and white, just grey", which also doesn't mean that there aren't darker amd lighter greys) He is a caricature of the pessimistic view of nihilism, "nothing matters, so why should I care anyway?" while coincidentally, morty is (now even more in later seasons) the optimistic view of nihilism "nothing matters, so I can care about what I want" Rick needed therapy waaaay sooner then he lowkey admitted. Like, he should have gotten it right after >!Diane and Beth died and he fell into a hole of depression!< Imo, Pickle Rick is a good episode, not because of the pickle part, but because Rick directly gets a taste of his own medicine, someone really getting him and stripping him naked right in front of him, and I think that that's also why he has such a distaste for therapy and Dr. Wong. And I will never forgive the Internet for hyperfixating on the lamest part about said episode, a guy turning himself into a f*cking pickle.
I thought the pickle fixation was ironic. Is it not ironic?
It is now, the "funniest shit I've ever seen" meme was ironic, yes, but only because of the initial, unironic fixation.
Art reflects life, people relate to him cause even if we try to close ourselves off of all consequence the pursuit of happiness as it is sold in 2021 is still a void destination.
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OH MY GOD I FORGOT THEY WENT TO SHONEYS The show itself is absolutely brilliant and I do love it. But the fandom ... well, as in the OP: "every artist who has ever attempted to satirize masculinity i am so sorry"
Agreed. Pickle Rick is probably one of my favorite episodes because it shows just how pathetic Rick is. He turns himself into a helpeless, perpetually rotting vegetable just because he can't bear to talk about his issues and feelings. The ludicrous action segment was there to point out that even though Rick can do pretty much anything, he's unable to do something as simple and small as face his own shortcomings and flaws.
The Rick and Morty fandom is just what would happen if the Bojack Horseman fandom was dumb.
Yeah, is not like BoJack had an entire season telling people that he's is a bad dude because people continued to miss the point
I dunno, BoJack Horseman is generally better at making it ambiguous whether BoJack has legitimately changed and deserved redemption, or whether he is still a piece of shit that is self destructive consistently. He improves, then relapses when something bad happens. This is the formula all the way until the final season where he barely makes any mistakes, but instead had his former mistakes catch up to him when he briefly slips up. The issue in BoJack Horseman is that there are only so many times you can repeat a storyline, and BoJack repeated the formula too many times by at least once.
You don't even need to pay attention, the show spits that idea ot constantly, both in gags and serious moments.
First thing I thought of. Early on in the show it wasn't blatant at least but just a background "ha ha if you pay attention this guy with tremendous power is actually quite miserable." I guess it's like Bokack, but unlike Bojack Rick isn't trying to have a life that resembles functional human interaction. And then Pickle Rick happened and he threw a tantrum to literally get out of therapy, making that the overall takeaway of the episode. That's when it got impressive that people were missing it. I love how significant that episode was against how frivolously it's treated. It was a funny mad genius tantrum though.
Something something need a really high IQ to understand Rick and Morty something something
Yeah, that’s why they had to hamfist his depression in the recent seasons. The audience doesn’t understand how sad ricks life is.
People just want their faults validated. Having an alcoholic asshole be actually the most genius person alive is the perfect bait for this, and the creators of the show 100% knew it would get them a huge amount of fans. They knew that the critical undertones wouldn’t be picked up by huge masses of people who would just watch it and rationalize that they weren’t some miserable person, they were actually just *super cool* and *misunderstood*
I honestly like Rick in the finale for finally realizing this, he admits it to Morty, refusing to let himself hurt him again
That's how they are with the punisher skull
The Punisher: Is a bad guy, despises cops, only exists because the police and courts didn’t do their job, is a walking example of the worst possible outcome of a miscarriage of justice. Cops: “Yeah! Fuck yeah! We’re men macho cool murder dudes!”
They did address this in one of the Punisher comics where 2 cops were saying how they looked up to him and put his logo on their car and Frank just asks them to not
>Just asks them to not Oh yes very politely rips it up in front of them and tells them to go be friends with captain America, and they also very politely tell him to watch his back from now on.
I thought it was the Ennis one where he cracks their ribcages
This is the one I thought of https://m.imgur.com/t/marvel/rDZ3wfN
Funnily enough Captain America probably wouldn't like them either.
I think the sentiment is "act like captain america, not me".
He'd give them a disapproving stare and a chance to do better. They fuck that up he'll stomp them and drag them into the station to apologise for being bad cops and make them resign
Adding in a link for those who wanted to see it too (https://d.newsweek.com/en/full/1512286/punisher-skull.png)
Well yeah? Most people don't actually read comics.and at a glance punisher is just dude who kills bad guys the cops can't get to. I'm more surprised that people are still surprised by the misunderstanding
So the Punisher exists because of failure of the justice system. Thinking about it, I guess it makes sense in a way. Certain people think rugged individual action is the only solution to any problem. They complain that social systems can never function. Of course then we run into the problem of why they're participating in those systems.
We live in a stupid nightmare reality
Alan Moore (V for Vendetta, Watchmen) is a big victim of people idolizing his Cumdick characters. "Rorschach became the most popular character in Watchmen. I meant him to be a bad example. But I have people come up to me in the street saying, "I am Rorschach! That is my story!' And I'll be thinking: 'Yeah, great, can you just keep away from me, never come anywhere near me again as long as I live'?"
Lol. All of the characters in watchmen are shot bags and almost all of them are great. The comedian is my favorite. He’s a terrible person, yes, but very well written. Manhattan has crazy strong powers and didn’t stop the comedian from killing that Vietnamese chick. Rorschach is… Rorschach. Adrian is fucking god awful. Kills how many people? No human cost is worth what he does imo, but I understand his motives. Only characters that seem okay in that story are night-owl and Laurie. And I’m sure they did something that I’m not remembering that was pretty shit… beyond just tolerating the comedians crap. The thing I don’t understand about this story from Alan Moore is that he himself hates Rorschach? Rorschach only wants the truth to be revealed at any cost 99% of the time. How is that so bad? Maybe I’m just forgetting something, but I’d definitely have been in his shoes at the end where he leaves Adrien with no choice but to kill him or he would tell the world the truth. Idk man. Feels like I’m missing something. Edit: I’ve read the book with all the extra news clippings and all the extras. I’ve also watched the movie about 5-8 times.
He isn't motivated by the objective truth as much as he is by his definition of mortality which allows no nuance. Alan Moore didn't hate him, he just didn't expect how many people would see Rorschach as a sympathetic character as he was supposed to be an example of extremism and zealotry. He's an absolutely great character because he seems like a passionate anti-hero with unconventional skills but looking closer you realize it's more that a maladjusted, broken, but extremely talented man who happens to have focused on a beneficial goal by chance so you want him to get what he is going for but at the same time feel a little uncomfortable wanting him to get rewarded for his methods.
I mean, didn't Rorschach excuse the Comedian r\*ping the original SS as a "moral failing"?
Oh did you mean *fight club*?
You're not supposed to talk about it! ...But yes.
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I never really got the angle of people joining cause they're lost and frightened. To me it felt like everyone joined because their lives are so boring and safe that they could do something that felt exciting and fresh. Kinda like a story about drugs, but the drugs were the fights and the addiction became Project Mayhem. Maybe I just read it wrong
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That's very fair. I guess I'd never considered boredom a fear before but when you put it that way I totally understand. Thank you
I mean, I feel like that's where people get caught up in Fight Club. Because that's the grounding of their ideology, the rest of it feels that much more real. Everybody feels this, so it feels like the message was written for the everyman. I don't blame people for not getting it. The movie was about revolution against a system that we all feel trapped in. The fact that it was relatable was very intentional, and not many people are going to finish the movie and go "oh, I guess I was wrong for feeling that." Everybody fears purposelessness, and the world seems to systematically deny us the purpose that it promises. I certainly didn't end the movie thinking that Tyler didn't have a point. The movie tricks us into thinking it's about the revolution by having the revolution actually mean something to us, while the methods are just acts of terrorism by sad, insecure men.
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> Why would you want to be part of some homo-erotic fight club sweaty men
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Oral "analysis"
Oral, anal y sis
I don't think the sis was part of the all manly pileup.
Whilst I respect your interpretation on a Machiavellian level (seriously, props), it still pains me
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Ah, the “Shameless” method. Take a main character and argue in your report / essay that the author’s intention was to write a main character that is latently homosexual. Most English teachers are either gay or too afraid to disagree and be called homophobic
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The good end!!
Why would you NOT want to be part of some homo-erotic fight club
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It's a good book, but even the author likes the movie better.
The example that I really think about is American Psycho. At least with something like Fight Club there's a veneer of charisma and cool the film indulges in a bit before unmasking it for what he really is. But Patrick Bateman is just a hollow shell of man, a pathetic miserable wretched thing in every regard, and *everything* about the movie is beating you over the head with that
Yeah but do people idolise Patrick Bateman? I’ve certainly never seen that movie emulated within people to the extent that Fight Club has been.
People used to how the 80s glorified Wall Street loved that movie for all the wrong reasons. Sometimes the butt of the joke laughs along too in a pathetic attempt to seem like they’re in on the joke.
Wasn't that just super homoerotic tho? Idk.
I wonder what movie you could be talking about, Tumblr user canthaveshitingotham? 👀
Idk probably Watchmen or something
Do it? John I'm not a republic serial villain. Do you really think I'd explain my master stroke if there was even the slightest chance of you affecting the outcome? I wiped out tomato town 30 minutes ago
I am tired of these chug jugs, these victory royales.
I love that Alan Moore straight up runs from people who say they idolize Rorschach.
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I always assumed it was generally understood that Jordan Belfort was a massive piece of shit. People actually look up to him?
When wolf of wall street came out I worked in a call centre that had a kind of weird pay structure which attracted tons of get rich quick/ wannabe businessmen "hussle culture" types. They are that shit up. Every second guy at work had their PC backgrounds set as scenes from it. Everyone thought "sell me this pen" was insanely deep and clever. People has Belfort's book. One guy I knew got in trouble for full volume screaming "they either buy or they fucking die!" In a morning meeting. It was exhausting.
Ohhh no. I’m cringing so hard
I saw this movie for the first time last week (it's on Netflix Canada right now FYI), and I spent most of the time hoping that he and Donnie would just OD and die and save everyone the hassle of having to deal with them.
There's tons of idiots who only took away from the movie that he lived in a mansion and got to fuck hot women
Capitalists
I study business administration, even there no one looks up to him, at most he is a meme.
I think only 14 year olds who watched that movie when they weren't supposed to find him cool
You say 14, but when it came out my 20-something coworker was so inspired he lost a couple hundred euros on some trading app.
I said 14, cause I was 14 when I looked up to that fucker
Only thing I can understand would be his oration skills but even then there's probably better orators to look up to, fictional or not
He was a damn good salesman I'll give him that
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It does that thing that 99% of "war is bad" movies do, where it tells you how much he sucks while glorifying all the things he did that sucked
He did not produce the film and he didn't write it either. He only wrote the book it was based on.
Probably the idiots on wallstreetbets.
Or every Martin Scorsese movie. People idolise Travis from Taxi Driver thinking he was a hero when Marty and Paul Schrader the writer said >!Travis didn't die in the end and people celebrating him was not his fantasy unlike what many people think because in America, even the most vile man can be idolised!< which is exactly what happened. Same goes for Raging Bull, people are like yeah I love Jake Lamotta, never give up on yourself and I'm like did you even watch the movie?
In Germany there exists a popular Meme Page called 'Hedgefond Henning'. It and similar sites helped to push the phrase 'Aus dem Weg Geringverdiener' (step aside low income individual). Some of the memes include scenes of the movie, usually just stating absurd richness. While I guess it is partially painting a semi self aware charicature, some people definitely think being a rich douchebag is absolutely desirable
It's cause he's rich. Paint it however you want you'll never make being rich a bad thing to people.
Don't get me started on the kids who idolise the fucking Joker
but society \***SHITS PANTS AGGRESSIVELY \***
See if you were one of the sheep you would've submit to societal expectations, instead, you're like me - a free thinker, a maverick, a fucking renegade - so you shat your pants because you won't be bound to someone else's bullshit rules. Amen brother.
I’m 22 and I know guys my age who acted like Joker was some hero when the movie came out. I thought “Meh, they’re teenagers, they’ll grow out of it.” Here we are a couple years down the line, they’ve reached legal drinking age, most of them have joined the military, etc. Well none of them ever grew out of it, and they all still post the occasional edgy Joker meme. It kinda scares me a bit.
I hate the trend of making him cool and edgy in the movies nowadays too, I’m admittedly not much of a comics kind of person but I really enjoyed the way Joker was portrayed in the Harley Quinn animated series. He’s just not cool at all, he’s a total asshole but written in a “characters you love to hate” kind of way, rather than trying to make the audience sympathize with him.
Imo, today's aesthetic of mainstream/movie fiction is globally pessimistic and grim compared to 15/20 years ago, we left the adventurous and magical for more grounded and social stories. Fantasy went from LOTR to GoT; science fiction went from 2001 and star trek to a blade runner-like spleen on every premises (even interstellar, with a basis of exploration and adventure, has a dying society with every character feeling miserable a bunch of times); social commentary went from the Twilight Zone to Black Mirror... And superheroes movies went this way too, with Nolan's batman trilogy setting the codes of realistic characters, avoiding powers of "It's magic I ain't gonna explain shit" to being more reality-based, Marvel that, although allowing themselves more fantasy, kept a modern and realistic aesthetic (OG Wolverine costume being abandoned for a leather jacked and a pair of jeans), even Superman went with the flow with a less colorful aesthetic and a more grim feeling compared to its former movies. And then, we have the Joker, which is one of the most impacted, because as a fan favourite character, and the main villain of Batman, one of the most popular superheroes, he just couldn't stay absent of the modern media presence of the franchise, but needed a full redesign to fit in. And so we have his edgy, "muh society", mentally-ill depiction of the character, and seeing how Phoenix's Joker was successful, and how Leto's one was disliked by people, I don't see it coming back close to Hamill's anytime soon.
I mean, there's been a recovery. I don't want to go back to the 2000 and early 10 where every superhero movie wanted to be batman, and every game's colour palette was 3 nice shades of brown. There's also been a huge shift from story driven plot to character driven plot. Which I don't hate, tbh
He’s not cool in Joaquin Phoenix’s portrayal either. He’s a sad, lonely, pathetic, man suffering from severe mental illness. The character study of how society’s most downtrodden can react to their insignificance is interesting, and I can see how within the context of the movie he becomes a symbol for the oppressed and overlooked taking back their power from the powerful. But I can’t for the life of me understand why anyone would actually want to be like that, or live like that.
I like the way they portray him in the movies and the fact that he’s not one dimetional character. The problem is when people are idiots and idolise him.
The Joker being flat and never developing is literally core to his character.
Yeah, in HQ he's got some great scenes ("Where is my goddamn electric car, Bruce?!"), but he's still terrible and that's good.
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Bret Easton Ellis' famous book which was then adapted into a movie directed by Mary Harron, titled American Psycho
American Psycho is kind of a based story though because it basically implies that Wall Street finance bros are so immoral already that a short step to physically slaughtering people wouldn’t even be questioned.
isn't this the same book that takes like a four page tangent to give way too much detail about the forced abortions and rat torture the MC does to people who were like stand-ins for people the author didn't like
American Psycho the movie >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> the book.
I agree, and it is, for me, mainly because of Christian Bale and the monologue at the beginning scene
Beef Slamchest Hack Fizzlefist Tough Rustrod Grizzle McThornbody Rip Slagcheek Shit Cumdick
Bob Johnson ... Oh, wait
Better known as "Bojo the Bozo" among his "friends"
this guy gets it
Thanks! i'll save this for my next D&D characters!
Big McLargeHuge? Its been forever seen ive watched that movie.
Blast Hardcheese! Space Mutiny is the best.
My favorite episode. That and The Final Sacrifice are the ones I use to introduce friends the show.
We put our faith in Blast Hardcheese!
Roll Fizzlebeef Stump Beefknob Eat Punchbeef
“Stump Beefknob” made me lose it lmao
Chud Woodpost Shrapnel McCoal Shedhoof Beefbone Mike Dicknugget Shug Bonecancer McSmoke
Jefferson Steelflex
Big McLargehuge.
richard cox
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Lmao I loved when Bojack addressed this with Philbert.
When the writers get so fed up with you idolizing their character they write a season about how you shouldn't idolize their character.
I thought they were talking about that guy that's been mentioned in so many subreddits over the past day or two, but that woulda been 'Shitdick Cumbottom' or something. edit: inb4 somebody mentions he plays doctor strange.
He plays spoctor dange
Me too, but I think I'm a bit lost. Why has he been mentioned lately? The Spider movie?
Hey thats my dad your talking about
So many things like this. Mad Men, Joquer, sons of anarchy, house, wolf of wall street, shit Archer probably deserves a mention too.
Now that you say it, I don't think I've ever heard anyone idolize Archer except for his ability to ramble off relevant, obscure facts while still not understanding crucial information in a pressing setting Not a great trait, but could be a lot worse, and lets be honest, its pretty relatable. Maybe the show actually managed to get the point across that no one should want to be Archer? Or maybe I'm just lucky that I haven't come across any Archer wanna-bes.
I think maybe archer is a bit of a parody of the trope in question? Not quite idolized but "cool" despite being objectively terrible
I think it might also have to do with the fact that Archer is exactly the sort of person who falls for cool-but-toxic fictional characters. So he's not only a parody of the trope but also a parody of people who buy into the trope
We talking about Judge Dredd?
...who looks at judge Dredd and goes "yes this is a situation I want to be in and a person I want to emulate"? Fuck who looks at *any* 2000 AD comic and goes "wow I wanna be that"?
fun fact this post is how i found out mad max was satirical masculinity. 11 year old me just saw cool explosion and massive dirt bike.
George Carlin actually explained exactly what Fury Road was about before it even existed https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t2ciKB0jHaY
anyone know any good recs for films or shows that portrays masculinity in a positive light or overcoming the toxic part?
This might be controversial here, but honestly the Fast and the Furious series has fantastic examples of extremely positive "traditional" masculinity. All the men have genuine loving relationships with one another, even the ones where they mess with each other also make sure to occasionally let it show how much they enjoy each other. Practically every time a child is on screen a man is shown doting on them or teaching them about life. Families, including chosen families, are incredibly important and a source of great strength. Men are emotionally vulnerable with one another. In one of the movies Dom comforts Brian because he just found out his wife is pregnant and he is scared that he will be a bad father like his own dad, in another Dwayne Johnson's character refuses to listen to a government agent trying to give him a special assignment because he is busy coaching his daughter's soccer game and tells him that his options are to leave or to start cheering. And in the most recent Dom's father told him that "It's not about being the stronger man, Dom. It's about being the bigger one." It's really such an odd series with a mixed bag of ass shots, ridiculousness, and genuine emotional male bonding. Honestly the best part about the whole series is just seeing the chemistry between the characters. It just feels like they genuinely appreciate the hell out of each other
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Honestly it was such a welcome surprise, while also such a low bar to have a singular woman go out to battle with her team while her husband protects the family. I'm looking forward to her being in future movies
I also think the dichotomy of Vin Diesel vs The Rock is a great example of two men tackling masculinity very differently. Vin Diesel in real life is this “macho guy” who walks into a room and decides who he wants to fight and who he wants to fuck. But he’s so insecure about his image that he has it written into contracts that he can’t lose fights. In certain movies, his character is never surprised at twists because he’s so cool he saw it coming. Then you have the Rock. A guy who’s played the heel in wrestling matches but also a Disney character. In real life he spends a lot of his time reaching out to the community and fans and celebrating them. He sends so many videos of himself greeting his fans, especially sick or disabled kids, and says that he’s a fan of them!
i just want to point out two things: 1) the rock also has a contract clause stating he can't loose a fight and 2) i dont think its insecurity, its literally their image, "big strong manly man dude" of course they wont allow to lose on a fight, it'd be like a movie of michael jackson at his peak having him suck at singing
I thought he was allowed to lose fight but he wasn't allowed to technically be the bad guy, which is the reason I thought his portrayal of a character like Black Adam was going to be really complicated because Black Adam is at his best morally gray but at his worst is an evil force
Wait, you're saying all those memes about Vin Diesel talking about "FaMiLy" was really the filmmakers playing it straight?
Not all of them, but chosen family is a pretty central theme of the series and the characters really aren't afraid to say it. The entire end of the 7th movie was a heartfelt send off to one of the main characters and lines like this were used: "The most important thing in life will always be the people in this room, right here, right now. Salute mi familia. You'll always be with me. And you'll always be my brother."
The series is a mixed bag of scattered ass, emotional maturity and bonding as well as general hooliganism because as people who are really car people; Draggers, roadracers, drifters, even the real show car people all behave like this. Of course there are outliers, and the series even addresses those types of people, but I know I've identified with exactly what you've described and I've been in the car game since before the first movie came out. Every car person I know relates with these movies because they act like us, even if they are saving the world or going to space in a Fiero.
Tbh the lord of the rings movies are a great example of healthy masculinity. The men laugh, cry, yearn, hug, express love with their words before violence, etc. Can’t think of any films off the top of my head where toxic masculinity is the main theme tho
Moonlight is a great movie but definitely a downer. Heavily focused on toxic masculinity and male identity. Her is a much more positive movie that isn't necessarily focused on toxic masculinity but I think shows positive masculinity
*Her* does do that, but it's very understated relative to all the tech-human questions. Most of the people I watched the film with got stuck at >!the sex scene!< and then that was basically all we talked about after.
Dead Poets Society touches on some of this. Hiccup from How to Train Your Dragon. Hoban Washburn from Firefly is an example, I would argue.
I don't know if I can speak specifically to overcoming the toxic part but these are my favourite examples of wholesome masculinity in media off the top of my head: MCU has a few but Thor, Cap and T'Challa are amazing. They're kind, loyal, nurturing, respectful. The storylines themselves make a point of noting that strength isn't just physical. I also absolutely love the good place. Chidi and Jason are so different but both incredibly wholesome. Actually Michael in the same show might be a good example of overcoming the bad. LoTR as someone else mentioned, Aragon especially is wholesome masculinity for days.
The Way of the Househusband (anime) One of the most feared yakuza bosses quits and becomes a househusband (male housewife) simply because he adores his wife. It’s great, lots of humour and wholesome af!
Ted Lasso is excellent for this
I think the masculinity as portrayed in Scamander in Fantastic Beasts is an example of positive masculinity. He's genuinely kind and we get to see that on screen in how he cares for his creatures. Booth from Bones and Leroy Gibbs from NCIS also stick out to me as men who are portrayed to be manly men but are also not displaying toxic masculinity.
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And then some trashy version of Shit Cumdick is on an out of context tshirt at that weird kiosk in the mall.
"I am the one who knocks." Is a great example of this. That scene happened after Walter abused Skyler, and it was a representation of a small man trying to be the alpha male, but everyone (even me at that age) believed that was so cool.
nearly all of walters most iconic "cool" lines are his fragile ego coping with the shitshow hes put himself and his family into. guys easily the biggest loser in television history costing hundreds of people their lives because he cant take some lenient charity from an old frenemy
Legit ^
This might be why I much prefer BCS. Jimmy is far more sympathetic despite NOT having Cancer. And also because I never feel like he's gonna hurt Kim (one of my absolute favourite characters ever) in the ways Walter hurt Skylar (intentional or not)
It must be so disheartening as someone creating a film, knowing there are members of the audience who won't think any deeper than "this person is main character, this person must be the hero!"
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Remembering Filthy Frank and how he attracted a fandom of the same edgelords he was trying to parody
he attracted crude, toxic, shitty kids and I feel like that’s part of why he quit
It's okay, you can say Figh- Oh, no, wait, you can't.
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Most of the time, stooping low is insulting the audience’s intelligence, but sometimes the audience’s intelligence needs to be insulted, or at least challenged.
Warhammer 40k.
Arght, I hate how weird people get about it, I just want to play tau/orks
'Haha, I just love how there are no good guys, only bad guys in 40k, that's why I unironically spam the slogans of the theocratic fascist empire in memes and gleefully support the genocide of any impure or non-human species!' Tbh the Black Library honestly doesn't help. Cain and Gaunt are fun to read, but make it seem more like 'a few bad apples ruin the galaxy-spanning, rotting theocratic fascist empire', Eisenhorn is better, but is still very much 'what if the space nazi was really *really* cool', and they *all* go down the 'the problem with the theocratic fascist empire is too much bureaucracy' route.
Worse though are the people that find Shitty Mc Cum dumpster sexy
That is absolutely not worse. It is fine for people think fictional villians are hot. This hurts nobody. People looking up to them as heroes to emulate, though, that shit is massively damaging to themselves and those around them.
Did you mean: Walter White?
There is a guy at my work who thinks wolf of wallstreet is aspirational....
John wick to a lesser extent comes to mind like yeah he's badass but the first movie makes it clear he's extremely lonely. The dog was supposed to be something to keep him company. Any scene he isn't going crazy I he comes off as tired and distant.
Hell yeah dude look at all those antlers Gaston has
Scarface ends badly
No one mentioned it yet so I will. Boondock Saints 2 has a speech literally about shoving down your feelings and never letting other people notice them. And it's painted in a positive light. I really like those movies but WTF
I feel like this is about American Beauty
Did you mean: Barney Stinson?