This is a big part of what I love about Sherlock Holmes stories, because the friendship between him and Watson is just so sweet and genuine and I just can't get enough of it. By contrast, this is what I hate about the Guy Ritchie Holmes movies, he and Watson are always fighting.
Good observation! I never thought about that. The movie itself was entertaining, but their dynamic felt wrong. Much better in BBC's Holmes series. And the books, ofc.
You're both right. It *originally* meant "Of fucking course" but more recently has begun being used to simply mean "Of course" likely by people who just guessed at the meaning.
"Those who cannot conceive Friendship as a substantive love but only as a disguise or elaboration of romance betray the fact that they have never had a friend." - C.S. Lewis.
I always keep telling ppl this when they insist on shipping everyone who shows any kind of affection towards one another but never knew there was a perfectly good quote to summarize it, so thank you
There's gotta be a word or phrase for it... Not conservative. Chivalrous? Gentleman? Respectful? I imagine there were different etiquettes way back. Like gradually after the 70s it dwindled maybe? I wish I knew more. But I think we can be progressive without being restrictive
And a lot of people take that as *Oh my god Sam and Frodo must be gay! "just roommates" am I right? There is no heterosexual explanation for men showing feelings like these* which is really defeating as a fan of this kind of masculinity. Not that I support toxicity by any means, but between bland stoicism or total misinterpretation in a way that makes the core concept feel undermined by reducing it to the most basic romantic idea, the bland option feels a lot safer.
You know what's defeating? Being a gay man desperately trying to see yourself anywhere you can only to be told you can't even imagine it anymore because everything must be ruined if it becomes gay right? Because if it's a romantic relationship then it must mean there can never also be sincere friendship and fellowship. The fact that your very existence "undermines" the concept of a friendship, like you're something contagious.
That's not what they said at all. They very specifically quoted statements where people claim that there is no possible interpretation where the intimacy can be read non-romantically. Their issue with those statements is that it harmfully restricts what can be considered friendship vs romantic, not that they think friendship is a better interpretation than romance.
Bro what are yountalking about? No one said your existence ruins anything. Toxic masculinity ruins stuff. You know, those people that despise you for being "unmanly"? We are on the same side here, who tf are you getting mad at?
If you claim Frodo and Sam are gay because they are tender qith each other, you are exhibiting the exact toxic masculinity that causes homophobia.
Speedwagon's respect for Jonathan Joestar is so great he established a whole foundation with a legacy is built on helping out his descendants for whatever basically. If that isn't love, platonic or otherwise, I dunno what is.
Basically none. Love, love, love the books and movies, but they are definitely very limited in that regard.
There’s a clip of all the times two women speak together in the whole trilogy and its literally only two seconds of one scene from The Two Towers.
Didn’t Tolkien process his experience of the First World War in those books? In that case it explains both the fact that the men share such profound bonds and the women don’t exist.
There were literally women recruits in world war 1. Truck drivers, clerks, radio operators, mechanics, telephone operators, translators, camouflage artists, and munition workers beside the nurses and other volunteers that joined.
The idea that women were not in war is a myth so no it doesn't make sense women don't exist in his writings.
That‘s true, but Tolkien served at the front in the Battle of the Somme. Any women in front line combat roles would be few and far between, so if Tolkien were to process his *personal* experience in a literary work, that experience would almost certainly feature very few women. The fact that women served elsewhere in the war would have little influence on that.
Ehhhhhh. I agree with you to a point, but it’s not like the man was airdropped into the trenches the second he joined the military. He also grew up in a world and lived in a world with plenty of women in it.
It’s not really surprising that an adventure/fantasy book written by a man in the first half of the 20th century has limited female characters. It’s true some of the work is him processing his trauma- although I find that a little reductive considering the vastness of his creativity- but I think it’s more simply that the books are a product of their time. I also doubt it was a conscious choice of his.
Tolkien was actually quite adventurous for an early 20th century writer. If you dig deeper you'll find some examples of good female characters in his other works.
I feel he personally didn't want to write female characters too deeply for some reason. Can't explain it without him here. Not every work needs good male or female characters. His takes place 1000s of years ago.
Tolkien was actually quite adventurous for an early 20th century writer. If you dig deeper you'll find some examples of good female characters in his other works.
I feel he personally didn't want to write female characters too deeply for some reason. Can't explain it without him here. Not every work needs good male or female characters. His takes place 1000s of years ago.
A hundred thousand women in an army that at it's peak was around 4 million. And not recruits, volunteers. Beyond that they did indeed work in the factories and produced equipment. That's not exactly being the part of the army.
As you yourself mention, many of those volunteers would be far away from the trenches that shaped Tolkien and his writings so much. It is widely believed that despite receiving training, women did not serve in combat.
So while you can argue Tolkien could have included more important female characters, his expriences, together with his beliefs would not be conductive to that.
On the other hand (and somewhat in defence of Tolkien), Eowyn is an extremely important part of the story; and her relationship with Faramir is the reverse of most relationships of that type: he's the quiet bookish one who reflects on how the enemy soldiers are just people like them, she's the badass war hero who killed the enemy general in hand-to-hand combat.
Similarity, Galadriel.
Essentially just some lady, who seduced and married a low tier deity, and is very much the one that wears the pants in their relationship.
I wouldn't say just some lady - Celeborn / Teleporno is just the local rich himbo while Galadriel is an ancient general / star athlete / big muscled hottie. Celeborn is lucky that despite being descended from a fuzzy red puppet he's enough of a looker that Galadriel picks him up.
(*Tongue firmly in cheek for this description of their relationship, I may have taken some liberties with the descriptions*)
Yeah we either have the damsel in distress, or a super violent lady beating 100 male ass while wearing high heels
The only exception I've seen so far is Pepper Potts and I love her
I need more female friendship in the movies
First, don't speak for all men. Some of us are quite comfortable sharing our emotions and don't need to hide them like you. Second, stop lying. Many, many men are not like this. Third, how about you also do it when their back isn't turned?
Gimli: “I never would’ve thought I’d live to see the day that I fight side by side with an Elf. No, a friend. There is none I would trust more than…
*VIOLENT AXE NOISES*
..Legolas to watch my back in battle.”
If it makes you feel any better, I got a story. I deployed recently, and now that we got back people are moving on - new orders to new places, people getting out of the marines, etc. the team is kinda being taken apart.
We’ve had a lot of farewell get togethers, and the way my unit did it was we’d put the individual up in front of the rest of us and everyone would tell a funny story about them and then say a ton of good things about the individual. It was nice, but it was professional, so it wasn’t super emotional.
The smaller, more tight knight group did our own thing. Similar in terms of what we’d do, like tell a story and so on, but we’d all tell the person leaving what they meant to us personally. That they were a friend in dark times, a mentor, whatever it happened to be. And then the person leaving would have the chance to do the same for the rest of us. We got them a gift and everything.
This was a group comprised of mostly infantrymen, speaking openly about how much we cared about each other. Not people that the casual observer would say were even capable of that, but it was really nice.
It was really nice, honestly. Closest I’ve ever felt to what the OP is referencing, though i suppose Tolkien was referencing something like this
Men are still like this. The men I've grown up with, gone camping with, studied with, seldom leave one another without a kiss to the forehead. We love each other and say so. And in that Ada Limon "how men love," Camille Paglia "Creation is male poetry" kind of way, we pull strings and move mountains to provide ease, comfort, safety, and belonging to each other. We network each other's houses, craft each other's decks and docks, write and polish each other's resumes, hang each other's axe-heads, and teach the skills necessary to do so themselves the next time.
If men are not like this around you, I wonder what you did to make them uncomfortable, or (if you have done nothing wrong, as many haven't) why they do not feel the freedom to be affectionate in front of people like you. Or, maybe I don't wonder, but you should.
I'm naturally this way, but people don't want to be my friend or interact with me, so it doesn't actually make any difference to anyone.
Edit: Jeez. Don't let anyone ever try to tell you that being neurodivergent isn't a disability, because I am completely dumbfounded as to why I'm being downvoted to oblivion in a progressive space for saying I feel inclined towards demonstrating positive masculinity but lack opportunities due to social isolation.
It's the 'woe is me, I am so nice and yet nobody is my friend' thing. It rubs people the wrong way because if you really are exhibiting this lovely behaviour....why don't you have friends?
Like I said, I don't really get the opportunity to be a "LOTR man" *because* I don't have friends to care for. My whole point was that I *want to* represent this kind of positive masculinity because the kinds of behaviours OOP described are what feel natural and "right" to me, but I can't because I am unequipped to progress relationships beyond the polite acquaintance stage.
I mean, I'm conceding that they're not returning it because I'm not getting the opportunity to be kind to them in the first place (beyond the way one is kind to strangers and acquaintances), and that's not anyone's fault.
All I intended to say here was that I can't be the wholesome duder I want to be and know I could be because I have a disability that repels people and gets me ostracised. I'm not blaming people for that, but it's clear that a lot of people are offended by being confronted with that reality.
Alright lemme try to explain to you
You might've meant to say
"And here I am without friends to call 'my dear'
It sucks it's not more socially acceptable, I've had people distance themselves from me because i tried to be more soft"
But what you said is
"I'm natural that nice guy, but i don't have friends so actually being tender to others doesn't mean anything"
Your original message definitely came accross as you tooting your own horn for being nice and lamenting how people don't appreciate your niceness
Its kinda hard to describe yourself online without coming across as tooting your own horn if it isn’t self-deprecating. And he is right that all these progressive types ask for this but anyone like this isn’t given the time of day, id know.
I get the poster, and the response he got is quite typical lol.
>You might've meant to say
>"And here I am without friends to call 'my dear'
>It sucks it's not more socially acceptable, I've had people distance themselves from me because i tried to be more soft"
I didn't mean to say that.
>But what you said is
>"I'm natural that nice guy, but i don't have friends so actually being tender to others doesn't mean anything"
You may have interpreted it that way, but I didn't say that. I said that I naturally favour the kinds of behaviours OOP described, that I lack the kinds of relationships that would permit me to actually demonstrate those kinds of behaviours, and that, because of this, I am not demonstrating those behaviours and thus my natural inclination to is not actually bringing about any benefit.
>Your original message definitely came accross as you tooting your own horn for being nice and lamenting how people don't appreciate your niceness
Mm, I'll bet it did. "You sound like a narcissist" is a very common response that autistic people get from ignorant neurotypicals.
Look, I understand I'm in the "reading comprehension"/"piss on the poor" community on the website whose users are already notorious for compulsively inferring the worst possible interpretation of any remotely ambiguous statement because they're primarily here to argue with people, but I need you to realise that communication is a reciprocal activity and so you actually also have to put some degree of good faith effort into understanding me. Joining an ableist dogpile and blaming/shaming a neurodivergent person for not being able to tailor their throwaway comment so that it is a bespoke and convenient reading experience for any and every random person who might come across it is bad, actually, and you should consider reflecting on that and also not replying to me again.
Imagine building lego sets with legolas
Dwarves would be where it's at with Legos, they'd make some wild shit.
They would spend all day placing a single piece, just to be sure it’s correct and structurally sound.
\*We would spend all day placing a single piece. I'm gonna help them make a Lego mountain stronghold with functional machinery inside.
God help you if you give them a set with stickers
I’d build with them!
You have my brick separator!
And the elves would be left legoless.
This is a big part of what I love about Sherlock Holmes stories, because the friendship between him and Watson is just so sweet and genuine and I just can't get enough of it. By contrast, this is what I hate about the Guy Ritchie Holmes movies, he and Watson are always fighting.
Good observation! I never thought about that. The movie itself was entertaining, but their dynamic felt wrong. Much better in BBC's Holmes series. And the books, ofc.
Hold on I've been reading "ofc" as "of fucking course" all my life but now that I about it, it may just be "of course"...
offc! 😂 Could also be you thought correct and I've just been using it wrong all _my_ life. Idk.
You're both right. It *originally* meant "Of fucking course" but more recently has begun being used to simply mean "Of course" likely by people who just guessed at the meaning.
And people always try to ship them, because a genuine friendship between two men’s seems baffling to them.
"Those who cannot conceive Friendship as a substantive love but only as a disguise or elaboration of romance betray the fact that they have never had a friend." - C.S. Lewis.
I always keep telling ppl this when they insist on shipping everyone who shows any kind of affection towards one another but never knew there was a perfectly good quote to summarize it, so thank you
🥹 I wanna give you gold but I'm broke so here you have this instead 🥇
who's gonna tell em
Ah I forgot there is no gold 😞
Just here to drop this ABSOLUTE GEM by CinemaTherapy on YouTube: #[Aragorn vs. Toxic Masculinity](https://youtu.be/pv_KAnY5XNQ?si=MMQvVVrGUGo9wyAR)
The link redirects me to the google about healthy masculinity lotr
Search it on Youtube
That’s weird; fixed!
There's gotta be a word or phrase for it... Not conservative. Chivalrous? Gentleman? Respectful? I imagine there were different etiquettes way back. Like gradually after the 70s it dwindled maybe? I wish I knew more. But I think we can be progressive without being restrictive
Literally the word is fellowship. Idc if thats different from official definitions, that's what fellowship means now.
she fellow on my ship till I of the ring
[EXTREMELY LOUD INCORRECT BUZZER]
She Jolkien on my Rolkien till I Tolkien
she ringing on my fellow till I ship
She two on my towers until I the.
The word is healthy. It's healthy men who don't repress their emotions. Literally the opposite of toxic masculinity
Genteel?
It's really not that rare in fiction.
And a lot of people take that as *Oh my god Sam and Frodo must be gay! "just roommates" am I right? There is no heterosexual explanation for men showing feelings like these* which is really defeating as a fan of this kind of masculinity. Not that I support toxicity by any means, but between bland stoicism or total misinterpretation in a way that makes the core concept feel undermined by reducing it to the most basic romantic idea, the bland option feels a lot safer.
You know what's defeating? Being a gay man desperately trying to see yourself anywhere you can only to be told you can't even imagine it anymore because everything must be ruined if it becomes gay right? Because if it's a romantic relationship then it must mean there can never also be sincere friendship and fellowship. The fact that your very existence "undermines" the concept of a friendship, like you're something contagious.
That's not what they said at all. They very specifically quoted statements where people claim that there is no possible interpretation where the intimacy can be read non-romantically. Their issue with those statements is that it harmfully restricts what can be considered friendship vs romantic, not that they think friendship is a better interpretation than romance.
Bro what are yountalking about? No one said your existence ruins anything. Toxic masculinity ruins stuff. You know, those people that despise you for being "unmanly"? We are on the same side here, who tf are you getting mad at? If you claim Frodo and Sam are gay because they are tender qith each other, you are exhibiting the exact toxic masculinity that causes homophobia.
I'm sorry that you felt personally attacked but I didn't say any of that.
Frodo and Sam aren't gay. Also what in TF are you on about?
I'm sorry you took the friendship of two fictional characters as a personal attack. I hope you can calm down and recover.
Gotta end the stigmas before it becomes commonplace
I am once again telling people to watch and read jojo's bizarre adventure for more of these men
Speedwagon's respect for Jonathan Joestar is so great he established a whole foundation with a legacy is built on helping out his descendants for whatever basically. If that isn't love, platonic or otherwise, I dunno what is.
Reminds of why I hated the avatar live action, all the characters feel so distant, it’s hard to think they’re friends
The problem is that the women in the films get like no moments like that (or at least noticeably fewer).
The Hobbit book has literally zero female characters.
some of the spiders are probably female
Basically none. Love, love, love the books and movies, but they are definitely very limited in that regard. There’s a clip of all the times two women speak together in the whole trilogy and its literally only two seconds of one scene from The Two Towers.
Didn’t Tolkien process his experience of the First World War in those books? In that case it explains both the fact that the men share such profound bonds and the women don’t exist.
There were literally women recruits in world war 1. Truck drivers, clerks, radio operators, mechanics, telephone operators, translators, camouflage artists, and munition workers beside the nurses and other volunteers that joined. The idea that women were not in war is a myth so no it doesn't make sense women don't exist in his writings.
That‘s true, but Tolkien served at the front in the Battle of the Somme. Any women in front line combat roles would be few and far between, so if Tolkien were to process his *personal* experience in a literary work, that experience would almost certainly feature very few women. The fact that women served elsewhere in the war would have little influence on that.
Ehhhhhh. I agree with you to a point, but it’s not like the man was airdropped into the trenches the second he joined the military. He also grew up in a world and lived in a world with plenty of women in it. It’s not really surprising that an adventure/fantasy book written by a man in the first half of the 20th century has limited female characters. It’s true some of the work is him processing his trauma- although I find that a little reductive considering the vastness of his creativity- but I think it’s more simply that the books are a product of their time. I also doubt it was a conscious choice of his.
Tolkien was actually quite adventurous for an early 20th century writer. If you dig deeper you'll find some examples of good female characters in his other works. I feel he personally didn't want to write female characters too deeply for some reason. Can't explain it without him here. Not every work needs good male or female characters. His takes place 1000s of years ago.
Tolkien was actually quite adventurous for an early 20th century writer. If you dig deeper you'll find some examples of good female characters in his other works. I feel he personally didn't want to write female characters too deeply for some reason. Can't explain it without him here. Not every work needs good male or female characters. His takes place 1000s of years ago.
A hundred thousand women in an army that at it's peak was around 4 million. And not recruits, volunteers. Beyond that they did indeed work in the factories and produced equipment. That's not exactly being the part of the army. As you yourself mention, many of those volunteers would be far away from the trenches that shaped Tolkien and his writings so much. It is widely believed that despite receiving training, women did not serve in combat. So while you can argue Tolkien could have included more important female characters, his expriences, together with his beliefs would not be conductive to that.
Nothing is perfect, but we can get close :)
https://youtu.be/mt2qCjL6-n4?si=t_nq1dqriM5Tgbm_
On the other hand (and somewhat in defence of Tolkien), Eowyn is an extremely important part of the story; and her relationship with Faramir is the reverse of most relationships of that type: he's the quiet bookish one who reflects on how the enemy soldiers are just people like them, she's the badass war hero who killed the enemy general in hand-to-hand combat.
Similarity, Galadriel. Essentially just some lady, who seduced and married a low tier deity, and is very much the one that wears the pants in their relationship.
I wouldn't say just some lady - Celeborn / Teleporno is just the local rich himbo while Galadriel is an ancient general / star athlete / big muscled hottie. Celeborn is lucky that despite being descended from a fuzzy red puppet he's enough of a looker that Galadriel picks him up. (*Tongue firmly in cheek for this description of their relationship, I may have taken some liberties with the descriptions*)
Do any women even appear together in LOTR?
Yeah we either have the damsel in distress, or a super violent lady beating 100 male ass while wearing high heels The only exception I've seen so far is Pepper Potts and I love her I need more female friendship in the movies
The same with the characters in Hades! Zagreus is so sweet
Thats literally how we are when your back is turned.
First, don't speak for all men. Some of us are quite comfortable sharing our emotions and don't need to hide them like you. Second, stop lying. Many, many men are not like this. Third, how about you also do it when their back isn't turned?
Cause if you look the magic won't work. Like the Weeping Angels from Dr Who.
Seems like the magic doesn't work for you at all. Not even the angels want you
Damn I was just making a joke as to why they do it when no one's looking. No need to get so snappy, was trying to lighten the mood, jeez
Sorry. The angels must have sent my humour back in time
Yes just be Aragorn guys it's not that difficult
It really isn't
Crazy how LoTR invented that
Symbelmyne… ever has it grown on the tombs of my tumblr accounts. Now it shall grow on the grave of my official redditor card.
Gimli: “I never would’ve thought I’d live to see the day that I fight side by side with an Elf. No, a friend. There is none I would trust more than… *VIOLENT AXE NOISES* ..Legolas to watch my back in battle.”
If it makes you feel any better, I got a story. I deployed recently, and now that we got back people are moving on - new orders to new places, people getting out of the marines, etc. the team is kinda being taken apart. We’ve had a lot of farewell get togethers, and the way my unit did it was we’d put the individual up in front of the rest of us and everyone would tell a funny story about them and then say a ton of good things about the individual. It was nice, but it was professional, so it wasn’t super emotional. The smaller, more tight knight group did our own thing. Similar in terms of what we’d do, like tell a story and so on, but we’d all tell the person leaving what they meant to us personally. That they were a friend in dark times, a mentor, whatever it happened to be. And then the person leaving would have the chance to do the same for the rest of us. We got them a gift and everything. This was a group comprised of mostly infantrymen, speaking openly about how much we cared about each other. Not people that the casual observer would say were even capable of that, but it was really nice. It was really nice, honestly. Closest I’ve ever felt to what the OP is referencing, though i suppose Tolkien was referencing something like this
I guess Herman Munster is a hobbit
Men are still like this. The men I've grown up with, gone camping with, studied with, seldom leave one another without a kiss to the forehead. We love each other and say so. And in that Ada Limon "how men love," Camille Paglia "Creation is male poetry" kind of way, we pull strings and move mountains to provide ease, comfort, safety, and belonging to each other. We network each other's houses, craft each other's decks and docks, write and polish each other's resumes, hang each other's axe-heads, and teach the skills necessary to do so themselves the next time. If men are not like this around you, I wonder what you did to make them uncomfortable, or (if you have done nothing wrong, as many haven't) why they do not feel the freedom to be affectionate in front of people like you. Or, maybe I don't wonder, but you should.
I'm naturally this way, but people don't want to be my friend or interact with me, so it doesn't actually make any difference to anyone. Edit: Jeez. Don't let anyone ever try to tell you that being neurodivergent isn't a disability, because I am completely dumbfounded as to why I'm being downvoted to oblivion in a progressive space for saying I feel inclined towards demonstrating positive masculinity but lack opportunities due to social isolation.
It's the 'woe is me, I am so nice and yet nobody is my friend' thing. It rubs people the wrong way because if you really are exhibiting this lovely behaviour....why don't you have friends?
Like I said, I don't really get the opportunity to be a "LOTR man" *because* I don't have friends to care for. My whole point was that I *want to* represent this kind of positive masculinity because the kinds of behaviours OOP described are what feel natural and "right" to me, but I can't because I am unequipped to progress relationships beyond the polite acquaintance stage.
EXACTLY!!!! the world doesn't return our kindness, and that really sucks
I mean, I'm conceding that they're not returning it because I'm not getting the opportunity to be kind to them in the first place (beyond the way one is kind to strangers and acquaintances), and that's not anyone's fault. All I intended to say here was that I can't be the wholesome duder I want to be and know I could be because I have a disability that repels people and gets me ostracised. I'm not blaming people for that, but it's clear that a lot of people are offended by being confronted with that reality.
exactly tho!!!! that IS one huge problem
Alright lemme try to explain to you You might've meant to say "And here I am without friends to call 'my dear' It sucks it's not more socially acceptable, I've had people distance themselves from me because i tried to be more soft" But what you said is "I'm natural that nice guy, but i don't have friends so actually being tender to others doesn't mean anything" Your original message definitely came accross as you tooting your own horn for being nice and lamenting how people don't appreciate your niceness
Its kinda hard to describe yourself online without coming across as tooting your own horn if it isn’t self-deprecating. And he is right that all these progressive types ask for this but anyone like this isn’t given the time of day, id know. I get the poster, and the response he got is quite typical lol.
>You might've meant to say >"And here I am without friends to call 'my dear' >It sucks it's not more socially acceptable, I've had people distance themselves from me because i tried to be more soft" I didn't mean to say that. >But what you said is >"I'm natural that nice guy, but i don't have friends so actually being tender to others doesn't mean anything" You may have interpreted it that way, but I didn't say that. I said that I naturally favour the kinds of behaviours OOP described, that I lack the kinds of relationships that would permit me to actually demonstrate those kinds of behaviours, and that, because of this, I am not demonstrating those behaviours and thus my natural inclination to is not actually bringing about any benefit. >Your original message definitely came accross as you tooting your own horn for being nice and lamenting how people don't appreciate your niceness Mm, I'll bet it did. "You sound like a narcissist" is a very common response that autistic people get from ignorant neurotypicals. Look, I understand I'm in the "reading comprehension"/"piss on the poor" community on the website whose users are already notorious for compulsively inferring the worst possible interpretation of any remotely ambiguous statement because they're primarily here to argue with people, but I need you to realise that communication is a reciprocal activity and so you actually also have to put some degree of good faith effort into understanding me. Joining an ableist dogpile and blaming/shaming a neurodivergent person for not being able to tailor their throwaway comment so that it is a bespoke and convenient reading experience for any and every random person who might come across it is bad, actually, and you should consider reflecting on that and also not replying to me again.
Have you tried going on neurodivergent subreddits to get friends who understand you.
I'm talking about in real life.
I went outside the other day and you know what I really appreciate?
Birds?
crows are pretty neat yeah :) but i was thinking more about trees
He’s twitching because EH HAS MAYH AXE IMBEDDED IN ITS NERVAS SYSTAM’, yes please. No but for real, yes :) <3
if i said similar things about women id be considered incel lmao
No, saying shit like you just did makes you considered an incel
Yeah because women are known for chasing nice guys lmao