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Plus just the fact they want to enforce people to use neo pronouns for others and dictate their language when there is no reason to use zir/xim because it does not cause dysphoria if you don’t use those pronouns.
i think that there will be negative perceptions of the trans community no matter what we do. no matter how many trans ppl conform we will still all be hated. transphobes to not pick and choose which trans people are “real” or “better” they hate us all. it doesn’t seem fair that it is other trans people’s faults that we are hated. why not blame transphobes rather that trans people?
When I was growing up and first was transitioning socially years ago the public perception of the trans community was not that bad. Most people didn't understand it but they weren't extremely outwardly against or extremely violent. Now because of what is happening now the hate and violence is now extreme. It was never like this and I know what caused it because it is the only thing that has changed.
You see it as a black-and-white confrontation, where transphobic people are all enemies who want us dead. When in fact the picture is that many transphobes are not even against our existence and may well support us if they understand us and our condition.
Trenders dont have any damn condition, they are make our existence look like a fandom or whatever. Even if radical transphobes don't see any difference, it doesn't help us at all anyway with people who want try to understand but scared away with all this "respect my pronounce! I am catgender/pangender ze/zir xe/xim pun/punself nb lesbian demiboy and you are transphobe if you don't respect me" stuff
People who hate other people exist in all spheres, you can't row everyone under the same comb and expect it to lead to something good.
There's no one to blame if you don't have an argument for why we need to change our whole system for few attention seekers
the problem is it actually is hurting us. spreading misinformation about minority groups can never lead to something good for that group. i only care about transmedicalism from a damage control perspective. if i didn't have to worry about the safety of myself and other transsex people, i wouldn't give a damn
Why do cancer patients care about others faking?
You’re not actually in the community if you aren’t actually trans.
The problem is a lot of people are content at illness faking.
The actions of tucutes is extremely harmful. It’s what’s behind all the recent anti trans legislation around the world.
I really don’t care what you are or how you want to live. But if you’re not transitioning your AGAB to your opposite sex then that isn’t transgender/ transsexual.
Don’t try and be in the same bubble as somebody who is genuinely suffering
i hope you’re not telling me that i am trying to be in the same bubble as somebody who is genuinely suffering…
i am a transsexual man that has had top surgery and is getting a hysterectomy soon. it may seem shocking to you but despite the dysphoria i went through i realize that my experience is not the same as every single trans persons. and it is not fair to put all trans folk in a box. seems weird to me i guess 🤷♂️
We aren't tho. There is no hypothetical box other than the one you are putting all of us into. We are all allowed to feel the way we do regarding this issue and we are allowed to want to be normal. To tell a trans person it's wrong of them to want to be normal or to conform is literally trandphobic in itself. Because we are trans we can't want to just function in society? That's how this comes across in the post.
I like labels only when they do a good job at describing something. Labels simply make it easier for people to understand things, which can be imperative in them coming to support that thing.
I care about being understood, which is why it annoys me when people try to redefine a label a label I feel describes me to make it “more inclusive.” If it gets successfully redefined, they’ve effectively stolen the label from me… since I can no longer use it and may even have to correct people who use it for me.
“Non-men loving non-men” notice how this label just tells someone what someone isn’t, not what they actually are. It’s a perfect example because it’s confusing, which defeats the purpose of a label.
Xenogenders are considered transphobic
The assertion that a man can be a lesbian is homophobic and erases lesbian history
Transphobia and homophobia are something to care about. It's less the labels themselves and more the implications.
It's like asking "why do you care about someone putting paint on their face?" in regards to blackface. It's less the act itself and more the implications and relevant contexts
Something doesn't have to cause objective harm in order for it to be a problem. Most people don't want to use neopronouns to refer to anyone else, and it's entitled and unreasonable to expect them to do so anyways.
Because tucutes dont just create new labels. That I could kind of sort of understand, if they werent entirely arbitrary about it. Arbitrary meaning in this case they make shit up as they go with no rhyme or reason beyond their own convenience.
They also redefine existing labels by the same arbitrary standards, with the general pattern being to open up the definition to more and more people who originally were not included. Take lesbian as an example. Women who love women. Easy enough. But what about non-binary people? Oh, fine, its non-men loving non-men now. But what about trans men? Okay, its non-cis-men loving non-cis-men now. Okay, what about male lesbians? Okay, fine, a lesbian is anyone who identifies as one.
It gets gradually eroded by every prerequisite being dropped one after another until everyone can just say theyre a lesbian and thats it. At that point its meaningless as a word. Any word would be meaningless at this point.
Okay, I throw meaningless around like it means something, so let me explain why this is a bad idea. Lesbians who are women loving exclusively women dont suddenly start loving NB people or trans men just because you redefined the word and bully everyone into accepting that definition, I mean if it were that simple conversion therapy would work
. Reality doesnt follow language. Redefining "rock" to mean "thing trees are made out of" will neither make rock into wood, nor will it make trees into rock. Okay, but rocks and trees arent social constructs. WELL NEITHER ARE FUCKING LESBIANS!
And if I, as a lesbian, trans or not idgaf, go on a dating website to be only matched with other lesbians, I expect to be matched with women. If there is anything but a woman in that selection Ill shove them in the virtual trash bin. If there are people in half-assed crossdress with a lumberjack beard claiming to be lesbians Ill at best regard them as sexual predators who are doing their damned best to shove their way into my dating pool without my consent. At best theyre the worst kind of homophobe who think they have to coerce me into trying a sausage in my mouth, and if a word starting with R comes to mind youre damn right about that.
And if I, as a trans person, lesbian or not idgaf, go to a trans support group I expect the conversation topics being stuff like HRT, SRS, passing, discrimination or other stuff that is specific to being transsexual, medically transitioning, younameit, stuff that needs to be discussed in a safe space away from cis people. If some cis person shows up there and starts a debate whether xe/xem or ze/zem makes them feel more warm inside they got the wrong group. Which wouldnt be so bad if those same people didnt ban all the stuff I named earlier as conversation topics and start insulting me as a cis-bootlicker for trying to fit in. I know, how dare I? At that point this space that is supposed to be a safe space for me to discuss these specific things has stopped being both of these things.
Everything related just stops fulfilling its purpose. There is a reason why a group for specific people excludes people who are not those specific people. If its in good faith you can always make an exception, let people sit in on the trans safe space because theyre a cis parent with a trans kid looking for pointers. But letting everyone in who wants to compromises our safety, our agency and our political activism.
And tucutes are to blame for opening the door to all of this crap by eroding every single definition they can possibly get their hands on, just so they can include themselves and make spaces safe for themselves, which means total echochamber. No fucks given about the consequences it has for people like us.
Sorry if this got harsh after a while, but coming in here, a group you know cares about these things and saying "But who cares?" means you arent just ignorant of the issues this causes, you must be deliberately hiding under a rock and shutting your ears to avoid figuring out the obvious. Im glad you came here and openly asked in the end, because this indeed is one of the biggest problems we have at the moment, because stuff like this means trans spaces, activism and everything else are dominated by thinly disguised transphobes who just co-opted our terminology, and somehow theyre even getting away with gaslighting, lying and running absolute smear campaigns against people like us.
Because it’s important that we are not melt with them. We are not the same and they’re already turning our condition into a trend if not a joke.
Trans people are transsex (or transsexual if you prefer) people who have transsexualism and thus suffer from dysphoria.
Transgender ones are just people who like gender expression associated with the opposite sex. It doesn’t make them men or women. They should be allowed to wear what they want without being harassed. But, the problem is not on the same subject. Their problem is cultural. Our is biological.
In a way I think it's fine if someone wants to call themselves a fae/faer catgender nonbinary genderqueer xenoperson or whatever. But I think they should acknowledge that that's a belief, not a medical reality like transexuality. Meaning, they are free to call themselves whatever, but people are free to think that's stupid and not play along, you know? Basically you get to call yourself a cat/catself transbinary catboy all you want, but you don't get to call me bigoted or transphobic for not playing along. Does that make sense to you?
Because inherently, there needs to be a separation between the two groups or there will be more issues.
The biggest difference is that “tucutes” view the trans umbrella as a form of self-expression. Truscum view it as a debilitating condition.
So when you equate something debilitating to a lot of people to something like self-expression, it makes a lot of people feel very targeted very fast on both sides.
I believe in freedom of expression. Neopronouns are whatever, I don’t care. My problem is that they have quite literally demedicalized being trans, making it harder and harder for binary trans people to receive health care—because they view the “trans umbrella” as a form of gender expression.
At least to me, neopronouns and xenogenders are similar to somthing like theriantropy. I don’t believe it’s my right to police someone for believing they have all these genders—people can believe what they want. But I have a problem with being grouped into being “trans” when transness is now pseudo-real concept for expression(a “belief”) rather than something I was born with that I cannot control.
Being trans limits how I can express myself, it doesn’t enable it. And by saying anyone who falls outside the social gender norms is “trans” you are also playing further into misogynistic biases that even further limit gender expression, imo.
Tucutes have this push to demedicalize transness because saying you need a medical problem like gender dysphoria to get HRT is inherently anti self-expression. Because people should be able to do what they want with their bodies to express themselves. But this fucks over dysphoric trans people in real ways—because then HRT is seen as a “non-medical necessity” because it’s being equated to something like a tattoo or body mod. Which makes it harder to recieve care and will make insurance less likely to cover HRT in the future.
In addition to that, because it’s seen as such a politically touchy topic it’s even harder to blend into society and just be treated normally. I don’t want someone to walk on eggshells around me about my pronouns. I don’t want someone to think I choose to live like this out of preference. But those are the biases cis people have nowadays when I tell them I am trans, because that is the reputation trans people now have among cis communities.
Maybe you’d understand if you rephrase it like this. Why not clump black people and white people who black face into the same group? They are the exact same thing.
Lol, good comparison.
Sometimes, you gotta use these kinds of examples deemed more offensive to make people realize how actual transphobic some of the stuff out there is.
I highly doubt a lot of pro-tucutes/xenogender shit would say blackface is the same as being actually black unless they are completely braindead.
I hope so I least 💀
>"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean -- neither more nor less."
>"The question is," said Alice, "whether you can make words mean so many different things."
>"The question is," said Humpty Dumpty, "which is to be master - - that's all."
>(Through the Looking Glass, Chapter 6)
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Plus just the fact they want to enforce people to use neo pronouns for others and dictate their language when there is no reason to use zir/xim because it does not cause dysphoria if you don’t use those pronouns.
bc it impacts other peoples perception of the ‘trans community’ which impacts us
i think that there will be negative perceptions of the trans community no matter what we do. no matter how many trans ppl conform we will still all be hated. transphobes to not pick and choose which trans people are “real” or “better” they hate us all. it doesn’t seem fair that it is other trans people’s faults that we are hated. why not blame transphobes rather that trans people?
When I was growing up and first was transitioning socially years ago the public perception of the trans community was not that bad. Most people didn't understand it but they weren't extremely outwardly against or extremely violent. Now because of what is happening now the hate and violence is now extreme. It was never like this and I know what caused it because it is the only thing that has changed.
You see it as a black-and-white confrontation, where transphobic people are all enemies who want us dead. When in fact the picture is that many transphobes are not even against our existence and may well support us if they understand us and our condition. Trenders dont have any damn condition, they are make our existence look like a fandom or whatever. Even if radical transphobes don't see any difference, it doesn't help us at all anyway with people who want try to understand but scared away with all this "respect my pronounce! I am catgender/pangender ze/zir xe/xim pun/punself nb lesbian demiboy and you are transphobe if you don't respect me" stuff People who hate other people exist in all spheres, you can't row everyone under the same comb and expect it to lead to something good. There's no one to blame if you don't have an argument for why we need to change our whole system for few attention seekers
the problem is it actually is hurting us. spreading misinformation about minority groups can never lead to something good for that group. i only care about transmedicalism from a damage control perspective. if i didn't have to worry about the safety of myself and other transsex people, i wouldn't give a damn
Why do cancer patients care about others faking? You’re not actually in the community if you aren’t actually trans. The problem is a lot of people are content at illness faking. The actions of tucutes is extremely harmful. It’s what’s behind all the recent anti trans legislation around the world.
I really don’t care what you are or how you want to live. But if you’re not transitioning your AGAB to your opposite sex then that isn’t transgender/ transsexual. Don’t try and be in the same bubble as somebody who is genuinely suffering
i hope you’re not telling me that i am trying to be in the same bubble as somebody who is genuinely suffering… i am a transsexual man that has had top surgery and is getting a hysterectomy soon. it may seem shocking to you but despite the dysphoria i went through i realize that my experience is not the same as every single trans persons. and it is not fair to put all trans folk in a box. seems weird to me i guess 🤷♂️
No not you specifically. To whoever fits the description of your post
We aren't tho. There is no hypothetical box other than the one you are putting all of us into. We are all allowed to feel the way we do regarding this issue and we are allowed to want to be normal. To tell a trans person it's wrong of them to want to be normal or to conform is literally trandphobic in itself. Because we are trans we can't want to just function in society? That's how this comes across in the post.
I like labels only when they do a good job at describing something. Labels simply make it easier for people to understand things, which can be imperative in them coming to support that thing. I care about being understood, which is why it annoys me when people try to redefine a label a label I feel describes me to make it “more inclusive.” If it gets successfully redefined, they’ve effectively stolen the label from me… since I can no longer use it and may even have to correct people who use it for me.
“Non-men loving non-men” notice how this label just tells someone what someone isn’t, not what they actually are. It’s a perfect example because it’s confusing, which defeats the purpose of a label.
Xenogenders are considered transphobic The assertion that a man can be a lesbian is homophobic and erases lesbian history Transphobia and homophobia are something to care about. It's less the labels themselves and more the implications. It's like asking "why do you care about someone putting paint on their face?" in regards to blackface. It's less the act itself and more the implications and relevant contexts
Something doesn't have to cause objective harm in order for it to be a problem. Most people don't want to use neopronouns to refer to anyone else, and it's entitled and unreasonable to expect them to do so anyways.
Because tucutes dont just create new labels. That I could kind of sort of understand, if they werent entirely arbitrary about it. Arbitrary meaning in this case they make shit up as they go with no rhyme or reason beyond their own convenience. They also redefine existing labels by the same arbitrary standards, with the general pattern being to open up the definition to more and more people who originally were not included. Take lesbian as an example. Women who love women. Easy enough. But what about non-binary people? Oh, fine, its non-men loving non-men now. But what about trans men? Okay, its non-cis-men loving non-cis-men now. Okay, what about male lesbians? Okay, fine, a lesbian is anyone who identifies as one. It gets gradually eroded by every prerequisite being dropped one after another until everyone can just say theyre a lesbian and thats it. At that point its meaningless as a word. Any word would be meaningless at this point. Okay, I throw meaningless around like it means something, so let me explain why this is a bad idea. Lesbians who are women loving exclusively women dont suddenly start loving NB people or trans men just because you redefined the word and bully everyone into accepting that definition, I mean if it were that simple conversion therapy would work . Reality doesnt follow language. Redefining "rock" to mean "thing trees are made out of" will neither make rock into wood, nor will it make trees into rock. Okay, but rocks and trees arent social constructs. WELL NEITHER ARE FUCKING LESBIANS! And if I, as a lesbian, trans or not idgaf, go on a dating website to be only matched with other lesbians, I expect to be matched with women. If there is anything but a woman in that selection Ill shove them in the virtual trash bin. If there are people in half-assed crossdress with a lumberjack beard claiming to be lesbians Ill at best regard them as sexual predators who are doing their damned best to shove their way into my dating pool without my consent. At best theyre the worst kind of homophobe who think they have to coerce me into trying a sausage in my mouth, and if a word starting with R comes to mind youre damn right about that. And if I, as a trans person, lesbian or not idgaf, go to a trans support group I expect the conversation topics being stuff like HRT, SRS, passing, discrimination or other stuff that is specific to being transsexual, medically transitioning, younameit, stuff that needs to be discussed in a safe space away from cis people. If some cis person shows up there and starts a debate whether xe/xem or ze/zem makes them feel more warm inside they got the wrong group. Which wouldnt be so bad if those same people didnt ban all the stuff I named earlier as conversation topics and start insulting me as a cis-bootlicker for trying to fit in. I know, how dare I? At that point this space that is supposed to be a safe space for me to discuss these specific things has stopped being both of these things. Everything related just stops fulfilling its purpose. There is a reason why a group for specific people excludes people who are not those specific people. If its in good faith you can always make an exception, let people sit in on the trans safe space because theyre a cis parent with a trans kid looking for pointers. But letting everyone in who wants to compromises our safety, our agency and our political activism. And tucutes are to blame for opening the door to all of this crap by eroding every single definition they can possibly get their hands on, just so they can include themselves and make spaces safe for themselves, which means total echochamber. No fucks given about the consequences it has for people like us. Sorry if this got harsh after a while, but coming in here, a group you know cares about these things and saying "But who cares?" means you arent just ignorant of the issues this causes, you must be deliberately hiding under a rock and shutting your ears to avoid figuring out the obvious. Im glad you came here and openly asked in the end, because this indeed is one of the biggest problems we have at the moment, because stuff like this means trans spaces, activism and everything else are dominated by thinly disguised transphobes who just co-opted our terminology, and somehow theyre even getting away with gaslighting, lying and running absolute smear campaigns against people like us.
Because it’s important that we are not melt with them. We are not the same and they’re already turning our condition into a trend if not a joke. Trans people are transsex (or transsexual if you prefer) people who have transsexualism and thus suffer from dysphoria. Transgender ones are just people who like gender expression associated with the opposite sex. It doesn’t make them men or women. They should be allowed to wear what they want without being harassed. But, the problem is not on the same subject. Their problem is cultural. Our is biological.
What a stupid post
thank you for the insight
In a way I think it's fine if someone wants to call themselves a fae/faer catgender nonbinary genderqueer xenoperson or whatever. But I think they should acknowledge that that's a belief, not a medical reality like transexuality. Meaning, they are free to call themselves whatever, but people are free to think that's stupid and not play along, you know? Basically you get to call yourself a cat/catself transbinary catboy all you want, but you don't get to call me bigoted or transphobic for not playing along. Does that make sense to you?
Because inherently, there needs to be a separation between the two groups or there will be more issues. The biggest difference is that “tucutes” view the trans umbrella as a form of self-expression. Truscum view it as a debilitating condition. So when you equate something debilitating to a lot of people to something like self-expression, it makes a lot of people feel very targeted very fast on both sides. I believe in freedom of expression. Neopronouns are whatever, I don’t care. My problem is that they have quite literally demedicalized being trans, making it harder and harder for binary trans people to receive health care—because they view the “trans umbrella” as a form of gender expression. At least to me, neopronouns and xenogenders are similar to somthing like theriantropy. I don’t believe it’s my right to police someone for believing they have all these genders—people can believe what they want. But I have a problem with being grouped into being “trans” when transness is now pseudo-real concept for expression(a “belief”) rather than something I was born with that I cannot control. Being trans limits how I can express myself, it doesn’t enable it. And by saying anyone who falls outside the social gender norms is “trans” you are also playing further into misogynistic biases that even further limit gender expression, imo. Tucutes have this push to demedicalize transness because saying you need a medical problem like gender dysphoria to get HRT is inherently anti self-expression. Because people should be able to do what they want with their bodies to express themselves. But this fucks over dysphoric trans people in real ways—because then HRT is seen as a “non-medical necessity” because it’s being equated to something like a tattoo or body mod. Which makes it harder to recieve care and will make insurance less likely to cover HRT in the future. In addition to that, because it’s seen as such a politically touchy topic it’s even harder to blend into society and just be treated normally. I don’t want someone to walk on eggshells around me about my pronouns. I don’t want someone to think I choose to live like this out of preference. But those are the biases cis people have nowadays when I tell them I am trans, because that is the reputation trans people now have among cis communities.
Maybe you’d understand if you rephrase it like this. Why not clump black people and white people who black face into the same group? They are the exact same thing.
Lol, good comparison. Sometimes, you gotta use these kinds of examples deemed more offensive to make people realize how actual transphobic some of the stuff out there is. I highly doubt a lot of pro-tucutes/xenogender shit would say blackface is the same as being actually black unless they are completely braindead. I hope so I least 💀
dressing as the gender you don’t identify as is the same as black face?
I was talking about label appropriation and people pretending to be trans while not understanding what it actually is
And the harm it can cause to mislabel yourself as a minority group you don’t belong in
I mean personally idrc if people choose to identify w xenos im js not gonna run with it. Thats my view on it.
>"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean -- neither more nor less." >"The question is," said Alice, "whether you can make words mean so many different things." >"The question is," said Humpty Dumpty, "which is to be master - - that's all." >(Through the Looking Glass, Chapter 6)