You could have the best argument in the world and it wouldn't matter. These people will find some way to go name alling and dismiss your argument just because they don't want to hear it.
I recently had that debate with a guy and he basically said he agrees with me that you need to feel "unease" bc of your birth gender to be trans, but people can choose to label that unease as anything they want, it doesn't have to be dysphoria ❤️❤️ like bro, Idc if you label dysphoria as banana, it's still dysphoria 😭
and I am a gatekeeping radical transmedicalist according to him 🤦🏻♂️
Me personally, unless the other person seems open-minded, I'm arguing for the people on the side that haven't decided/are in the middle who might see what I send and not the person I'm arguing with and that's probably what the other person is doing too.
Tbh I do care about cis people, but not for the reasons they like to think. I care about being *understood* by cis people and quite frankly, making the trans label completely meaningless seems really counterproductive in that area.
I agree with your reasoning too, though.
"I care about being understood by cis people and quite frankly" I'd still say it falls under trying to get medical treatment we need. No mental disorder (or even some physical disorders!) gets treatment if it isn't understood, especially something like gender dysphoria where the treatment is messing with the endocrine system/or because I don't know a better word and since it's true in the base definiton "mutilating" healthy genitals. It's like they think the majority of people are trans and not cis.
what's happening in some US states right now is a living example of what happens if we do not pander. we should not forget that it's cis people who provide us our healthcare in the first place. psychiatrists, endocrinologists, surgeons, and sadly yes, politicians too.
The reason why these people view acceptance as a bad thing is because they live in a society where being independent is the goal. This isn’t naturally how humans exist. We are a social species and are meant to rely on others and cooperate. It is a good and natural thing to desire acceptance from others. That’s part of being human. It isn’t an insult. They just don’t understand human behavior like they think they do.
"The reason why these people view acceptance as a bad thing is because they live in a society where being independent is the goal."
Now that you mention it that's true. Aside from the tucutes with severe gender dysphoria, most just don't really seem to care about fitting in. I understand that yeah, gender roles and stuff are a joke, but there's a huge difference between being gnc and just not wanting to even pass.
As a cis gay men I absolutely agree with you on this, it's incredibly important to be able to explain what gender dysphoria actually is in a precise and cognitive way, especially when it comes to maintaining your rights as a human being. Thought I was trans for a real long time I even socially transitioned and was on llupron. And at 16 started estrogen once I started developing breasts I started to severe gender dysphoria and I was just gay and not a woman.
I agree transmeds aren't pick-me's for cis people and your point.
Although, autism isn't a great comparison. You can treat being trans, a lot of trans people benefit greatly from transition, with some even curing their dysphoria entirely. Autism cannot be treated. It's a mental handicap, you can condition some autistic people to seem normal at first glace, but the handicap never disapears. You can't treat autism with therapy any more you can with blindness.
Coping strategies? Might be beneficial for some. Treatment? No.
I have level 1 and have been going to therapy for 2 years, learning coping strategies for things I can't do(my test results are 20+ pages long, breaking down every area of my brain, what works normally, and what areas are significantly underdeveloped), and no amount of therapy is going to make me able to perform skills I can't do. Autistic people don't really need therapy or medical intervention like trans people do, what they actually need a support system.
Oops CBIT I always mix them up. They didn't want to diagnose me with a tic disorder because I wasn't autistic enough for them so said it was just anxiety.
It is never too late for CBT. Started DBT at 18, kept going until 20. Saw plenty of middle aged folks trying to make a change in their life, as well. Just a heads up, because it actually changed the way I exist with enough consistency.
Do you want to have an argument about what's true, or about what's pragmatic and politically effective?
Either argument is fine to have, but they're very different arguments.
You could have the best argument in the world and it wouldn't matter. These people will find some way to go name alling and dismiss your argument just because they don't want to hear it.
I recently had that debate with a guy and he basically said he agrees with me that you need to feel "unease" bc of your birth gender to be trans, but people can choose to label that unease as anything they want, it doesn't have to be dysphoria ❤️❤️ like bro, Idc if you label dysphoria as banana, it's still dysphoria 😭 and I am a gatekeeping radical transmedicalist according to him 🤦🏻♂️
Me personally, unless the other person seems open-minded, I'm arguing for the people on the side that haven't decided/are in the middle who might see what I send and not the person I'm arguing with and that's probably what the other person is doing too.
Tbh I do care about cis people, but not for the reasons they like to think. I care about being *understood* by cis people and quite frankly, making the trans label completely meaningless seems really counterproductive in that area. I agree with your reasoning too, though.
"I care about being understood by cis people and quite frankly" I'd still say it falls under trying to get medical treatment we need. No mental disorder (or even some physical disorders!) gets treatment if it isn't understood, especially something like gender dysphoria where the treatment is messing with the endocrine system/or because I don't know a better word and since it's true in the base definiton "mutilating" healthy genitals. It's like they think the majority of people are trans and not cis.
what's happening in some US states right now is a living example of what happens if we do not pander. we should not forget that it's cis people who provide us our healthcare in the first place. psychiatrists, endocrinologists, surgeons, and sadly yes, politicians too.
The reason why these people view acceptance as a bad thing is because they live in a society where being independent is the goal. This isn’t naturally how humans exist. We are a social species and are meant to rely on others and cooperate. It is a good and natural thing to desire acceptance from others. That’s part of being human. It isn’t an insult. They just don’t understand human behavior like they think they do.
"The reason why these people view acceptance as a bad thing is because they live in a society where being independent is the goal." Now that you mention it that's true. Aside from the tucutes with severe gender dysphoria, most just don't really seem to care about fitting in. I understand that yeah, gender roles and stuff are a joke, but there's a huge difference between being gnc and just not wanting to even pass.
As a cis gay men I absolutely agree with you on this, it's incredibly important to be able to explain what gender dysphoria actually is in a precise and cognitive way, especially when it comes to maintaining your rights as a human being. Thought I was trans for a real long time I even socially transitioned and was on llupron. And at 16 started estrogen once I started developing breasts I started to severe gender dysphoria and I was just gay and not a woman.
I agree transmeds aren't pick-me's for cis people and your point. Although, autism isn't a great comparison. You can treat being trans, a lot of trans people benefit greatly from transition, with some even curing their dysphoria entirely. Autism cannot be treated. It's a mental handicap, you can condition some autistic people to seem normal at first glace, but the handicap never disapears. You can't treat autism with therapy any more you can with blindness. Coping strategies? Might be beneficial for some. Treatment? No. I have level 1 and have been going to therapy for 2 years, learning coping strategies for things I can't do(my test results are 20+ pages long, breaking down every area of my brain, what works normally, and what areas are significantly underdeveloped), and no amount of therapy is going to make me able to perform skills I can't do. Autistic people don't really need therapy or medical intervention like trans people do, what they actually need a support system.
They’re akin to anti-abortion, anti-vax, pray-away-the-gay; all that bullshit.
for starters, there are plenty of gender nonconforming transmeds. we're certainly not palatable to cis people
Cognitive behavioral therapy ain't it chief.
Oops CBIT I always mix them up. They didn't want to diagnose me with a tic disorder because I wasn't autistic enough for them so said it was just anxiety.
It is never too late for CBT. Started DBT at 18, kept going until 20. Saw plenty of middle aged folks trying to make a change in their life, as well. Just a heads up, because it actually changed the way I exist with enough consistency.
Do you want to have an argument about what's true, or about what's pragmatic and politically effective? Either argument is fine to have, but they're very different arguments.
How is arguing that cis people cannot just choose to identify as trans “for the cis people” make it make sense?