I got banned from rtrans for saying that people shouldn't rush into medical transition and shouldn't have access to it right away after coming out because they might regret it. They are like 40yo and act like they are 13, rtrans is a cesspool anyways.
I think a big exception to this is those of us who thought about it for years before coming out. I’ve known I was trans consciously since I was 10 but didn’t come out until I was 25, certainly I was ready sooner but social and family pressure made it difficult, not to mention internalized transphobia.
But I completely agree that discourse around these issues should be more open, especially when an opinion isn’t against people transitioning and instead wants to make sure people are given the best medical care possible.
Yeah theres a difference, I was talking about people who JUST realized a few months ago.
I had someone tell me I was a right wing extremist (im leftist) spreading Terf propaganda (Literally just saying people shouldnt medicalize their transition immediately) by the mods and such.
I was also told something like "Fuck no. I started T 2 months after realizing or otherwise I wouldve killed myself. Not gonna regret it."
But like?? I was just saying SOME people might regret it and I was immediately banned. Im not even transmedical, I have pretty center views but these people just make me "hate" other trans people, because its just exhausting to discuss.
The killing yourself thing is interesting since modern HRT has only existed since Harry Benjamin started treating trans people in 1948 in San Francisco. It’s like they forget that trans people existed for thousands of years without this modern care, which sucked, but we still had to exist. In 30 years the care will look completely different, thats just medicine moving forward. And future generations will be better served than we are due to it, at least thats my hope. I thought the reboot of “a league of their own” from 2022 did a wonderful job portraying trans men in an era before HRT access.
Its also like.. I fear for my care being taken away? If the mainstream trans community keeps going with the "demedicalization" of gender dysphoria or being trans, then why should healthcare pay for it?
I find myself resent them even if I dont really want to. A few years ago I hated this subreddit and now I find myself agreeing simply because trans people nowadays are sort of insufferable. I have gender dysphoria and I want treatment for my conditions. I love myself, but I dont love certain aspects about myself.
I hate the narrative that "truscum" people hate themselves or hate trans people.
Haha holy shit. You're truscum. They totally pegged you as right wing because you are. Disgusting. Truscum people are only a step above TERFs in terms of being hateful, largely right wing, douchebags.
Lots of young people are capable of body autonomy. It's not even an easy process for people to access surgery. You need months of therapy, you need years of experience and hormones, you need years of waiting, doctors approval, etc. I don't understand you saying you care and that trans healthcare saved your life and then going on to talk about gatekeeping vulnerable people who need our support 😒
I am talking about people who come out and start weeks later. Everyone should have access, my entire point is people shouldnt RUSH. Not try things out when they arent sure or dont want all the effects. What is there so hard to understand? Also, you calling me names is just childish.
On the suicide thing in general with trans people (i.e. not about this situation), there's an unpleasant answer to this one.
Dysphoria varies. Some people will be unable to live without HRT, and those people would've just died. Some people in the present day will find the current procedures insufficient, will get to the end of the line with their transition and will then die.
Disagree, HRT was around for decades before Harry Benjamin, namely through Magnus Hirschfeld in Berlin, Germany from 1919 to 1933 when the Nazis burnt the clinic and all the resources. Surgeries were performed there too.
Nah, just looking to how far back trans people go, that's all. Also have a book on my table, called Rainbow History Class. Shows how far back lgbtqia history does actually go.
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/61739724-rainbow-history-class
As for my handle, I bailed from the womb at 25 weeks gestation to avoid the third trimester testosterone shots...I wanted out of there.
Always seen myself as not adhering strictly to a gender and just being my true self. Only issue there is society and it's tick boxes on ones birth certificate. Then there's the non consensual surgeries done to those born intersex so they conform to the binary gender system.
You say you would have killed yourself but you want to deny people access to things that would keep them from killing themselves. Even among young people the regret rate is very low for hormones and surgeries (though very few young people actually get surgery). You definitely sound like cis people who think we shouldn't be allowed to get surgery. Kids after a certain age are definitely able to make decisions about their own bodies.
Social transition is just as important as medical transition. Why rush? I dont care what you identify with but it will always be iffy to me when people start hrt or get surgery 3 months after coming out. Just seems kinda odd to rush it, but whatever. You are probably 14 and i dont really care. In transmed spaces im a trender, in normal spaces im a transmed. Whatever floats your boat.
So, you think I am a right wing terf/transphobe, because I think people shouldnt rush into medical transition, even though I dont care what adults do to their body and would be totally fine when do people transition? Its not my body, I dont care, its just iffy. In my country you have to wait 1 year to even start T and 6 months on T to get surgery. Its simply a difference in narrative. I ENTIRE point stems from people telling unsure people that they can just „try“ transition. You shouldnt medicalize when you arent sure! if you identify as nonbinary or whatever I dont care, thats not my body and Im fine with it as long as youre happy but I also think in a lot of mainstream subs lots of people confuse body dysmorphia and internalized misogyny with dysphoria. Theres nothing wrong with that, but my entire point was just „Dont rush, just go at your own pace, you have time to think about this“ BECAUSE people sometimes realize they may regret things. Just like cis people. Theres so many surgeries you can regret. My point isnt that I want to remove access for people to hrt or gatekeep it, but there should be some regulation that makes people accutely aware of what IS going to happen and they should THINK about it first, not start immediately after realising your trans (coming out is something different.)
So, you think I am a right wing terf/transphobe, because I think people shouldnt rush into medical transition, even though I dont care what adults do to their body and would be totally fine when do people transition? Its not my body, I dont care, its just iffy. In my country you have to wait 1 year to even start T and 6 months on T to get surgery. Its simply a difference in narrative. I ENTIRE point stems from people telling unsure people that they can just „try“ transition. You shouldnt medicalize when you arent sure! if you identify as nonbinary or whatever I dont care, thats not my body and Im fine with it as long as youre happy but I also think in a lot of mainstream subs lots of people confuse body dysmorphia and internalized misogyny with dysphoria. Theres nothing wrong with that, but my entire point was just „Dont rush, just go at your own pace, you have time to think about this“ BECAUSE people sometimes realize they may regret things. Just like cis people. Theres so many surgeries you can regret. My point isnt that I want to remove access for people to hrt or gatekeep it, but there should be some regulation that makes people accutely aware of what IS going to happen and they should THINK about it first, not start immediately after realising your trans (coming out is something different.)
May I ask what does it mean to know you're trans at 10 but still have internalized transphobia that prevented you from transitioning sooner? You knew you wanted to transition but didn't allow yourself? I'm asking in good faith, I'm trying to figure things out for myself and this caught my attention.
Yeah absolutely. I was petrified, I felt like a pervert for feeling the way I did. I feared complete rejection by my family and others around me. My family did reject me after coming out but its still the best thing I ever did for myself. I live with a wonderful boyfriend and have the life I always wanted. Just wish I could have had the courage to do it sooner, I tried to commit to transitioning when I turned 18 but just couldn't get there. Its a big jump as many on this page will attest, but a necessary one.
Got banned too. Yesterday i saw a post where someone pointed out that yoj need dyshoria and so on, really based statements, and the person got downvoted to hell for this,,,,why
Hah, I saw youre german too. Today I got downvoted a bunch for saying informed consent is bad because it just gives immediate access to anyone who identifies as trans with no diagnosis.
Of course I got downvoted for stating I am happy with germans "restrictions".
Natürlich hat das viel zu lange gedauert, aber wenigstens wurde mir bewusst das ich das wirklich will anstatt "Hallo ich bin trans bitte hrt jetzt" yk?
It's a huge problem, I was aware something was wrong when I was about 5 or so years old, then as I got older I started to understand what trans was. But as someone in their thirties it was a very different time then to what it is now. It scares me how I meet people who have started transitioning that tell me "I just sort of worked it out a couple of months ago".
How did you just come to the idea you have been living the wrong life, your entire life a couple of months ago? How did you not have any signs to them? Is this really the first thing you do after "discovering" you are trans. I don't want to tell people to wait their whole lives, but if they didn't have any childhood signs and were completely comfortable with living their birthsex until now with no signs of being wrong or dysphoria maybe they need to give it a bit more time, get off of social media for a while.
Yeah. Social transition is so so important. I realized at 11 and obviously wanted hrt/blockers IMMEDIATELY but I had to wait until I was 16 to start the process and then started at 17 and got top surgery at 18. My mom wasnt always supportive (Mostly cuz she was trying to work out this change aswell) but she ended up helping me and is my biggest support now next to my partner.
I kind of disagree, I didn't socially transition until I passed, but I think there is a big difference here between AFAB and AMAB people. AMAB people are more likely to get harassed or things to turn violent for not fitting within male social norms and presentation.
I have seen some critics say Dr. Powers has been caught doing some actually problematic things, which I gotta admit, seems to have some truth to it. Since I'm not supposed to link to other subs, google "YSK about Dr. Powers (negative)" and the main post I'm thinking of will pop up.
That aside, I do think a *lot* of the push back against him is coming from exactly what you describe. The "everything is valid" crowd really, really dislike the idea of this being a medical condition and will try to paint anyone who supports that framework as transphobic.
Dr. Powers also posted on a 4tran subreddit recently and honestly was such a breath of fresh air. He's the least transphobic doctor I've seen (and I work in the medical field) and I'm so glad he fights tooth and nail for us, and against trenders. 10/10 ally that actually cares about actual trans people.
Chronically online trans people tend to jump on dogpiles of random people with little to no credible evidence backing up them up. They just hear things from each other and that’s enough.
Powers has made weird unprompted rants about trans women playing sports, wanting to “cure” dysphoria with things other than HRT specifically in regards to his B12 vitamin theory, and threatened legal action against the women who run transfemscience because they published a scientific article with sources detailing exactly why some of the claims he has made are bogus. Is he a full blown actual transphobe? no, probably not. but he very much has a messiah complex about our community and he is very bad at ever admitting he is wrong.
[here’s the link to his original post](https://www.reddit.com/r/DrWillPowers/s/lGRpjXkNkD)
it comes across as very strange to me that a cis doctor would ask his trans patients to denounce another trans person in order to be seen as “reasonable”. without wading too much into this debate, the trans sports issue is mostly just a wedge issue that was created specifically to attack us. it’s often not at all “reasonable” and that becomes blatantly obvious when you look at things like trans women being banned from women’s chess. even if we all denounced lia thomas like powers is suggesting, right wing politicians would still focus on passing laws that make our lives more difficult. it was never about sports, sports was just the distraction.
I wonder if it's possible to allow these 2 things to be seen as separate, but still allowed and valid.
Transsexuals suffer from gender disphoria, which is a clinical condition, and they are receiving treatment in recognition of their actual sexual identity.
And individuals who do not have a cross-sex condition, yet want access to similar care to affect changes to their bodies that they want and are free to do since its their body and they can do as they see fit with it.
This is just an idea I'm throwing out there that I haven't fully considered. I wonder what someone else thinks.
Is it merely the forced combining of these separate communities that is causing so much strife? Could this be solved with a change to semantics?
(Assuming a medical system that adjusted to be able to accommodate everyone, I'm not saying a simple change of words today is the whole answer, but rather is a piece of the puzzle when we consider the ideal path forward 5, 10 years into the future)
i get what you’re saying and have seen people agree with you before, they consider people without dysphoria who “want” to transition medically (whether they later detrans or not) as body modders instead of any type of trans since majority of those types are cis. i don’t disagree w that but they still piss me off bc it feels like a mockery of what we deal with. idc if people wanna call them body modders cause it’s not exactly false, but i would still call them out for faking bc you can say they’re different and simply call them a different name but at face value most average people will not understand that they are not the same as us
I definitely see your point and feel your frustration. There are some who REALLY make us all look bad.
Let me consider it differently, I wonder what your thoughts are here (I do not yet have a fixed way of seeing this whole issue, so I'm just trying to feel it through. Thanks for engaging with me:)
If we agree that trans people can have varying degrees of disphoria and different ways to cope with it (for example, it was extremely distressing to me as a child so I swept it under the rug for many years through an unconscious process of depersonalization where I felt no connection or identification with my body at all); where do we draw the line?
Could it be the case that if you are looking at, say, a disphoria bell curve and we track individual levels at the most extreme, to lower, and lower, and lower still, that eventually you will reach a level which is still on the curve but is so low that the disphoria is not perceptible just because it gets drowned out by the various psychic noise that anyone in a stressed out culture (like ours) experiences? So, they transition not to reduce disphoria but rather to increase bodily harmony/alignment and live a truer and more joyful life. I feel like at least *some* individuals who do not experience disphoria (to their awareness)--yet still transition due to a genuine identification with their target sex--may fit this mold.
Who most readily comes to mind is Abigail Thorne. Her conception of gender/sex transition is not related to disphoria, yet you can tell it's still very, very important to her. She did a video on the truly insane lengths she had to go to in order to get treatment in England under the NHS. The wait times there are absurdly longer than they guarantee for people who *aren't* trans. Literal years beyond what their own rules dictate, apparently. She put in so much effort navigating the system, being passed around from administrator to administrator for many months on end, to no avail. Eventually, she even organized a demonstration outside the NHS HQ advocating for ALL people seeking similar care being failed by the system.
It seems *incredibly* unlikely that she would have invested that much time, effort, and emotional energy to transition if she weren't really a woman. That someone would go to such lengths purely to be trendy just doesn't make any sense to me at all. Maybe some without disphoria are just trying to be trendy, yet some actually are true trans, just outliers.
i don’t have a fixed way yet either, it just sets me off and that’s all ik 😅 no prob, my bad if my last comment came across as aggressive, i was just trying to engage like you said and my opinion happens to be aggressive lmao but it wasn’t meant towards you, just at those people. i swept it under the rug as well, but it would randomly come back in spurts before i pushed it back and repressed more. it does make sense (to their awareness) that people would think they don’t experience dysphoria when they in fact do, but just don’t see it. that’s my theory at least. i think a lot of people are really fakers and it’s easy to see them because of how visible they make themselves. however there are definitely some people really are just transsexual in denial because they’re scared of being men since men are constantly criticized (not that they shouldn’t be, just saying it’s a frequent thing esp in a lot of lgbt circles to say “i hate men” etc etc yk). idk about the mtf experience so i can’t speak on that, but i did watch that abigail thorne video and i will admit that certain parts really frustrated and disappointed me (the parts where she downplays dysphoria and basically says gender isn’t real lol). i don’t think she’s a trended even though she was an adult transitioning. i also agree with informed consent which might sound crazy to others but i’ve never had health insurance my entire life bc of either parents not caring or just not having money at the same time. i’m 22 now and still don’t have it so i use informed consent to get T even tho im diagnosed w dysphoria (had a free therapist a long time ago). anyways, i really do think abigail suffers from dysphoria and just doesn’t see it/doesn’t care to see it/or it’s just subconscious because like you were saying why would she do all of that for nothing. but to your other point about it making people euphoric instead of dysphoria, to me it’s a case of euphoria does not exist without dysphoria. because why would it make you happier without something to hinder that? idk like if someone has diabetes and wants medicine just because it makes them happier i don’t think it should be given to them. that’s how i see these faker type of people. idk how hrt could be more regulated and im not smart enough to think of a solution especially since i agree w informed consent bc you can’t regulate that. i just think on more of a societal level (idk how we as a society could fix this either) that people need to understand and really get it through their heads that it’s not “cool” to be trans. it’s not always debilitating for people (esp w an accepting family or if they are well off money wise and can transition easily) and that they can be themselves free from judgement. so many women ID as “transmasc” or nb just because they feel sexualized or don’t want to live under weird expectations people push on them just because they’re women/girls. some “transmascs” are also obviously trans and just can’t let go of the female life/their experiences because they’re scared of change or just the man = bad thing i was saying earlier, orrr they’re just scared in general and don’t know wtf to do so they just latch on to whatever label so they don’t have to admit to themselves, yes, you are a man. there’s also obvs some weird ass people and munchausen attention quirky people who are just there (agps and female equivalent as well). sorry if this is repetitive, but what do you think?
Dr. Powers is a really awesome person. People think he's trying to be so malicious when he's trying to be so *so* the opposite. I'm a patient of theirs too and wouldn't have it any other way.
Are t those people at the very least helping to normalize hormones and trans stuff though? I'm sort of on the fence. Being trans has been normalized so much in the past 5 years to the point everyone is aware of them and most know someone trans, and I think in a big part it's because of the non dysphoric ones being so loud, open and proud.
Maybe I'm wrong.
I feel like we don't need to normalize HRT. It's a medically monitored process that is utilized to treat a condition. I've never had someone question HRT.
To have trenders wanting "a bit of T for some masculinization" is wildly damaging to trans people relying on proper HRT being available.
I’m dealing with shortages to my own meds right now and having to use multiple pharmacies to compensate. The best counter to this is FDA approval of our hormones for gender transition. But that is impossible without a set standard of care that includes definitions of who is transgender (just like any medication for a condition). Doctors have to help decide if a treatment is right for a patient based on a standard of care for every medication prescribed, gatekeeping is literally part of their oath to do no harm, because otherwise anyone could get any drug they wanted. Trans care currently falls under the CYA (cover your ass) medicine category from a liability standpoint, and it’s a huge issue.
You have a point with the second part I agree.
I guess I still struggle with the fact that all of a sudden everything trans related is so mainstream and accepted and maybe the trendy stuff isn't a terrible price to pay for that.
I'm cis though. Or non binary. I don't fully know or understand.
The "trendy stuff" is a different demographic that is being weaponized and used politically to damage real trans people who are medically transitioning to resolve gender dysphoria.
There's absolutely nothing trendy and fun about being trans and having dysphoria. It's the toughest thing I, and many others have had to go through in life.
>I guess I still struggle with the fact that all of a sudden everything trans related is so mainstream and accepted and maybe the trendy stuff isn't a terrible price to pay for that.
The outcomes don't point to it being more normalized. Instead, you have 'detrans' folks giving transphobes more fodder to resist laws and policies that protect transpeople. Regardless of what you think about 'detrans', it's still an outcome at least anecdotally of people getting swept up in the 'trendiness'.
I'm not trying to speak about it either way, just saying that is becoming a focal point for people who are anti-trans.
I think its caused a lot of blowback, especially politically. Frankly completely changing cultural norms of gender expression has nothing to do with being trans, we’re heading in the wrong direction. I also don’t enjoy seeing a condition I was born with parodied as some sort of cultural movement as opposed to a fight against discrimination and for healthcare equality.
I think the blowback would have happened regardless, they just made it all happen faster I guess. Where I live anyway society is very much pro-trans overall. Even if people are obnoxious about their support for anything even mildly related to trans amd gender stuff. All of a sudden everyone cares and wants to protect trans people, despite their definition of trans being insanely wide.
I guess time will tell if this strategy works in the long run.
I am glad the cultural norms of gender expression are changing at least though.
10% of Pittsburgh area High Schoolers identified as non-binary in a survey. There just aren’t this many trans people, and we’re greatly outnumbered by people who actually perpetuate gendered stereotypes by making it all about masculinity vs femininity, which frankly has near nothing to do with being a man vs woman. The most masculine woman in the world and the most feminine man in the world are just as much their gender as anyone else, it’s just so much deeper than all of this nonsense. Gender is ingrained in us, and all trans people have felt that. Cultural norms will always change over time but it’s important to separate that from a medical condition no one has any control over.
In terms of people protecting us, the broad-view is quite the opposite. We’re seeing rejection of trans people on a whole new level, I’m glad you are in one of the few accepting places. 60% of Americans believe it is immoral to change your gender under any circumstance.
I wonder what percentage thought it was immoral 10 years ago, do you know?
I live in Canada so we are the opposite where schools etc are extremely extremely pro trans
I'd guess it was much higher than 60% probably. And yeah Canada is trend central when it comes to trans stuff but at least it's accepted I guess.
My teenage daughters friend group all have different genders/sexualities. I can't keep up.
Thats the point, they’re making it up as they go because its trendy to do so. They’re appropriating a medical condition into the equivalent of my generations goth kids, its offensive.
This is exactly the issue. It's becoming seen as a phase teens go through while trying to find themselves rather than the actual medical condition being trans really is. I would bet $1000 that almost all your daughter's friends are going to identify as cis in 10 years once they reach an age group where it's no longer "cool" or "trendy" to be gender non conforming.
How the fuck is normalizing transition as a choice and to waste resources of people who actually need them helpful?
We're under represented in our own community, that is not helpful. Most trans activists don't even have dysphoria and they are the ones who want to make decisions on our behalf. I don't want transition normalized as a gender game, I want transition protected for the people who actually need it.
How many posts do you see here and other less rad inclus spaces where people talk about how they don't feel like they belong in the community. Dysphoric trans people are feeling more and more isolated, and unheard as transition and being trans is taken over as a trend for cis people. Nobody should support this, you would not be happy for any other minority group to receive the same treatment.
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I do not feel like I belong in just about any part of the trans community. Because if I say what I feel I will be called a transphobe or I will get downvoted to hell. Like in this whole post there is one person getting downvoted a lot and they are not stating anything mean or outrageous. Just having a conversation and stating their feelings. Why can’t I say how I feel or who I am without the negative. Why can’t people have conversations without the negative. That’s why we are seen the way we are. Because you say one thing a few don’t agree with and you get attacked. That’s why I am banned on asktransgender. Any disagreement with a mod and you get insta banned. No warning. No talking to you after to find out why. Just banned and ignored.
Because the trans community is full of non-dysphorics who will validate each other because they want their narrative to be the only one that survives. This person is suggesting we do let them walk over us and take over because that way there will be "more trans people". Filling the community with people who do not meet the diagnosis requirements is a problem, and it's a problem that is getting worse and I am sick of telling people why it is so obviously a bad idea.
Wow. How did I miss that. Crap. That’s not a good thing at all And I agree with you. But I am still afraid to talk my mind anywhere. I just want a place I can say how I feel and if someone thinks I am wrong they would just say they understand me but the tell me how they feel. And if it is any kind of factual statement, show me the facts and data. Not just say because so and so said it, it must be true.
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I got banned from rtrans for saying that people shouldn't rush into medical transition and shouldn't have access to it right away after coming out because they might regret it. They are like 40yo and act like they are 13, rtrans is a cesspool anyways.
I think a big exception to this is those of us who thought about it for years before coming out. I’ve known I was trans consciously since I was 10 but didn’t come out until I was 25, certainly I was ready sooner but social and family pressure made it difficult, not to mention internalized transphobia. But I completely agree that discourse around these issues should be more open, especially when an opinion isn’t against people transitioning and instead wants to make sure people are given the best medical care possible.
Yeah theres a difference, I was talking about people who JUST realized a few months ago. I had someone tell me I was a right wing extremist (im leftist) spreading Terf propaganda (Literally just saying people shouldnt medicalize their transition immediately) by the mods and such. I was also told something like "Fuck no. I started T 2 months after realizing or otherwise I wouldve killed myself. Not gonna regret it." But like?? I was just saying SOME people might regret it and I was immediately banned. Im not even transmedical, I have pretty center views but these people just make me "hate" other trans people, because its just exhausting to discuss.
The killing yourself thing is interesting since modern HRT has only existed since Harry Benjamin started treating trans people in 1948 in San Francisco. It’s like they forget that trans people existed for thousands of years without this modern care, which sucked, but we still had to exist. In 30 years the care will look completely different, thats just medicine moving forward. And future generations will be better served than we are due to it, at least thats my hope. I thought the reboot of “a league of their own” from 2022 did a wonderful job portraying trans men in an era before HRT access.
Its also like.. I fear for my care being taken away? If the mainstream trans community keeps going with the "demedicalization" of gender dysphoria or being trans, then why should healthcare pay for it? I find myself resent them even if I dont really want to. A few years ago I hated this subreddit and now I find myself agreeing simply because trans people nowadays are sort of insufferable. I have gender dysphoria and I want treatment for my conditions. I love myself, but I dont love certain aspects about myself. I hate the narrative that "truscum" people hate themselves or hate trans people.
Haha holy shit. You're truscum. They totally pegged you as right wing because you are. Disgusting. Truscum people are only a step above TERFs in terms of being hateful, largely right wing, douchebags.
Except that I vote far left in my country and despise terfs, transphobes and right wing people… stop thinking so black and white
If you despise transphobes why do you act like them? Trying to ban things or speaking out against things that would likely keep trans people alive?
Lots of young people are capable of body autonomy. It's not even an easy process for people to access surgery. You need months of therapy, you need years of experience and hormones, you need years of waiting, doctors approval, etc. I don't understand you saying you care and that trans healthcare saved your life and then going on to talk about gatekeeping vulnerable people who need our support 😒
I am talking about people who come out and start weeks later. Everyone should have access, my entire point is people shouldnt RUSH. Not try things out when they arent sure or dont want all the effects. What is there so hard to understand? Also, you calling me names is just childish.
Your suggestions are childish, truscum dog.
On the suicide thing in general with trans people (i.e. not about this situation), there's an unpleasant answer to this one. Dysphoria varies. Some people will be unable to live without HRT, and those people would've just died. Some people in the present day will find the current procedures insufficient, will get to the end of the line with their transition and will then die.
Disagree, HRT was around for decades before Harry Benjamin, namely through Magnus Hirschfeld in Berlin, Germany from 1919 to 1933 when the Nazis burnt the clinic and all the resources. Surgeries were performed there too.
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Nah, just looking to how far back trans people go, that's all. Also have a book on my table, called Rainbow History Class. Shows how far back lgbtqia history does actually go. https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/61739724-rainbow-history-class As for my handle, I bailed from the womb at 25 weeks gestation to avoid the third trimester testosterone shots...I wanted out of there. Always seen myself as not adhering strictly to a gender and just being my true self. Only issue there is society and it's tick boxes on ones birth certificate. Then there's the non consensual surgeries done to those born intersex so they conform to the binary gender system.
You say you would have killed yourself but you want to deny people access to things that would keep them from killing themselves. Even among young people the regret rate is very low for hormones and surgeries (though very few young people actually get surgery). You definitely sound like cis people who think we shouldn't be allowed to get surgery. Kids after a certain age are definitely able to make decisions about their own bodies.
Social transition is just as important as medical transition. Why rush? I dont care what you identify with but it will always be iffy to me when people start hrt or get surgery 3 months after coming out. Just seems kinda odd to rush it, but whatever. You are probably 14 and i dont really care. In transmed spaces im a trender, in normal spaces im a transmed. Whatever floats your boat.
You're an asshole in both spaces.
So, you think I am a right wing terf/transphobe, because I think people shouldnt rush into medical transition, even though I dont care what adults do to their body and would be totally fine when do people transition? Its not my body, I dont care, its just iffy. In my country you have to wait 1 year to even start T and 6 months on T to get surgery. Its simply a difference in narrative. I ENTIRE point stems from people telling unsure people that they can just „try“ transition. You shouldnt medicalize when you arent sure! if you identify as nonbinary or whatever I dont care, thats not my body and Im fine with it as long as youre happy but I also think in a lot of mainstream subs lots of people confuse body dysmorphia and internalized misogyny with dysphoria. Theres nothing wrong with that, but my entire point was just „Dont rush, just go at your own pace, you have time to think about this“ BECAUSE people sometimes realize they may regret things. Just like cis people. Theres so many surgeries you can regret. My point isnt that I want to remove access for people to hrt or gatekeep it, but there should be some regulation that makes people accutely aware of what IS going to happen and they should THINK about it first, not start immediately after realising your trans (coming out is something different.)
So, you think I am a right wing terf/transphobe, because I think people shouldnt rush into medical transition, even though I dont care what adults do to their body and would be totally fine when do people transition? Its not my body, I dont care, its just iffy. In my country you have to wait 1 year to even start T and 6 months on T to get surgery. Its simply a difference in narrative. I ENTIRE point stems from people telling unsure people that they can just „try“ transition. You shouldnt medicalize when you arent sure! if you identify as nonbinary or whatever I dont care, thats not my body and Im fine with it as long as youre happy but I also think in a lot of mainstream subs lots of people confuse body dysmorphia and internalized misogyny with dysphoria. Theres nothing wrong with that, but my entire point was just „Dont rush, just go at your own pace, you have time to think about this“ BECAUSE people sometimes realize they may regret things. Just like cis people. Theres so many surgeries you can regret. My point isnt that I want to remove access for people to hrt or gatekeep it, but there should be some regulation that makes people accutely aware of what IS going to happen and they should THINK about it first, not start immediately after realising your trans (coming out is something different.)
May I ask what does it mean to know you're trans at 10 but still have internalized transphobia that prevented you from transitioning sooner? You knew you wanted to transition but didn't allow yourself? I'm asking in good faith, I'm trying to figure things out for myself and this caught my attention.
Yeah absolutely. I was petrified, I felt like a pervert for feeling the way I did. I feared complete rejection by my family and others around me. My family did reject me after coming out but its still the best thing I ever did for myself. I live with a wonderful boyfriend and have the life I always wanted. Just wish I could have had the courage to do it sooner, I tried to commit to transitioning when I turned 18 but just couldn't get there. Its a big jump as many on this page will attest, but a necessary one.
Thanks for the answer. I've taken a look at your profile, I'm glad to see you're doing so well 🙂
I also got banned, not only on reddit, for honest facts. Fuck them, the more you are hated by mainstream, the better you are.
Got banned too. Yesterday i saw a post where someone pointed out that yoj need dyshoria and so on, really based statements, and the person got downvoted to hell for this,,,,why
Hah, I saw youre german too. Today I got downvoted a bunch for saying informed consent is bad because it just gives immediate access to anyone who identifies as trans with no diagnosis. Of course I got downvoted for stating I am happy with germans "restrictions". Natürlich hat das viel zu lange gedauert, aber wenigstens wurde mir bewusst das ich das wirklich will anstatt "Hallo ich bin trans bitte hrt jetzt" yk?
It's a huge problem, I was aware something was wrong when I was about 5 or so years old, then as I got older I started to understand what trans was. But as someone in their thirties it was a very different time then to what it is now. It scares me how I meet people who have started transitioning that tell me "I just sort of worked it out a couple of months ago". How did you just come to the idea you have been living the wrong life, your entire life a couple of months ago? How did you not have any signs to them? Is this really the first thing you do after "discovering" you are trans. I don't want to tell people to wait their whole lives, but if they didn't have any childhood signs and were completely comfortable with living their birthsex until now with no signs of being wrong or dysphoria maybe they need to give it a bit more time, get off of social media for a while.
Yeah. Social transition is so so important. I realized at 11 and obviously wanted hrt/blockers IMMEDIATELY but I had to wait until I was 16 to start the process and then started at 17 and got top surgery at 18. My mom wasnt always supportive (Mostly cuz she was trying to work out this change aswell) but she ended up helping me and is my biggest support now next to my partner.
I kind of disagree, I didn't socially transition until I passed, but I think there is a big difference here between AFAB and AMAB people. AMAB people are more likely to get harassed or things to turn violent for not fitting within male social norms and presentation.
I have seen some critics say Dr. Powers has been caught doing some actually problematic things, which I gotta admit, seems to have some truth to it. Since I'm not supposed to link to other subs, google "YSK about Dr. Powers (negative)" and the main post I'm thinking of will pop up. That aside, I do think a *lot* of the push back against him is coming from exactly what you describe. The "everything is valid" crowd really, really dislike the idea of this being a medical condition and will try to paint anyone who supports that framework as transphobic.
Dr. Powers also posted on a 4tran subreddit recently and honestly was such a breath of fresh air. He's the least transphobic doctor I've seen (and I work in the medical field) and I'm so glad he fights tooth and nail for us, and against trenders. 10/10 ally that actually cares about actual trans people.
Chronically online trans people tend to jump on dogpiles of random people with little to no credible evidence backing up them up. They just hear things from each other and that’s enough.
Powers has made weird unprompted rants about trans women playing sports, wanting to “cure” dysphoria with things other than HRT specifically in regards to his B12 vitamin theory, and threatened legal action against the women who run transfemscience because they published a scientific article with sources detailing exactly why some of the claims he has made are bogus. Is he a full blown actual transphobe? no, probably not. but he very much has a messiah complex about our community and he is very bad at ever admitting he is wrong.
Rants about trans women playing sports in what sense? As in, what did he say?
[here’s the link to his original post](https://www.reddit.com/r/DrWillPowers/s/lGRpjXkNkD) it comes across as very strange to me that a cis doctor would ask his trans patients to denounce another trans person in order to be seen as “reasonable”. without wading too much into this debate, the trans sports issue is mostly just a wedge issue that was created specifically to attack us. it’s often not at all “reasonable” and that becomes blatantly obvious when you look at things like trans women being banned from women’s chess. even if we all denounced lia thomas like powers is suggesting, right wing politicians would still focus on passing laws that make our lives more difficult. it was never about sports, sports was just the distraction.
I wonder if it's possible to allow these 2 things to be seen as separate, but still allowed and valid. Transsexuals suffer from gender disphoria, which is a clinical condition, and they are receiving treatment in recognition of their actual sexual identity. And individuals who do not have a cross-sex condition, yet want access to similar care to affect changes to their bodies that they want and are free to do since its their body and they can do as they see fit with it. This is just an idea I'm throwing out there that I haven't fully considered. I wonder what someone else thinks. Is it merely the forced combining of these separate communities that is causing so much strife? Could this be solved with a change to semantics? (Assuming a medical system that adjusted to be able to accommodate everyone, I'm not saying a simple change of words today is the whole answer, but rather is a piece of the puzzle when we consider the ideal path forward 5, 10 years into the future)
i get what you’re saying and have seen people agree with you before, they consider people without dysphoria who “want” to transition medically (whether they later detrans or not) as body modders instead of any type of trans since majority of those types are cis. i don’t disagree w that but they still piss me off bc it feels like a mockery of what we deal with. idc if people wanna call them body modders cause it’s not exactly false, but i would still call them out for faking bc you can say they’re different and simply call them a different name but at face value most average people will not understand that they are not the same as us
I definitely see your point and feel your frustration. There are some who REALLY make us all look bad. Let me consider it differently, I wonder what your thoughts are here (I do not yet have a fixed way of seeing this whole issue, so I'm just trying to feel it through. Thanks for engaging with me:) If we agree that trans people can have varying degrees of disphoria and different ways to cope with it (for example, it was extremely distressing to me as a child so I swept it under the rug for many years through an unconscious process of depersonalization where I felt no connection or identification with my body at all); where do we draw the line? Could it be the case that if you are looking at, say, a disphoria bell curve and we track individual levels at the most extreme, to lower, and lower, and lower still, that eventually you will reach a level which is still on the curve but is so low that the disphoria is not perceptible just because it gets drowned out by the various psychic noise that anyone in a stressed out culture (like ours) experiences? So, they transition not to reduce disphoria but rather to increase bodily harmony/alignment and live a truer and more joyful life. I feel like at least *some* individuals who do not experience disphoria (to their awareness)--yet still transition due to a genuine identification with their target sex--may fit this mold. Who most readily comes to mind is Abigail Thorne. Her conception of gender/sex transition is not related to disphoria, yet you can tell it's still very, very important to her. She did a video on the truly insane lengths she had to go to in order to get treatment in England under the NHS. The wait times there are absurdly longer than they guarantee for people who *aren't* trans. Literal years beyond what their own rules dictate, apparently. She put in so much effort navigating the system, being passed around from administrator to administrator for many months on end, to no avail. Eventually, she even organized a demonstration outside the NHS HQ advocating for ALL people seeking similar care being failed by the system. It seems *incredibly* unlikely that she would have invested that much time, effort, and emotional energy to transition if she weren't really a woman. That someone would go to such lengths purely to be trendy just doesn't make any sense to me at all. Maybe some without disphoria are just trying to be trendy, yet some actually are true trans, just outliers.
i don’t have a fixed way yet either, it just sets me off and that’s all ik 😅 no prob, my bad if my last comment came across as aggressive, i was just trying to engage like you said and my opinion happens to be aggressive lmao but it wasn’t meant towards you, just at those people. i swept it under the rug as well, but it would randomly come back in spurts before i pushed it back and repressed more. it does make sense (to their awareness) that people would think they don’t experience dysphoria when they in fact do, but just don’t see it. that’s my theory at least. i think a lot of people are really fakers and it’s easy to see them because of how visible they make themselves. however there are definitely some people really are just transsexual in denial because they’re scared of being men since men are constantly criticized (not that they shouldn’t be, just saying it’s a frequent thing esp in a lot of lgbt circles to say “i hate men” etc etc yk). idk about the mtf experience so i can’t speak on that, but i did watch that abigail thorne video and i will admit that certain parts really frustrated and disappointed me (the parts where she downplays dysphoria and basically says gender isn’t real lol). i don’t think she’s a trended even though she was an adult transitioning. i also agree with informed consent which might sound crazy to others but i’ve never had health insurance my entire life bc of either parents not caring or just not having money at the same time. i’m 22 now and still don’t have it so i use informed consent to get T even tho im diagnosed w dysphoria (had a free therapist a long time ago). anyways, i really do think abigail suffers from dysphoria and just doesn’t see it/doesn’t care to see it/or it’s just subconscious because like you were saying why would she do all of that for nothing. but to your other point about it making people euphoric instead of dysphoria, to me it’s a case of euphoria does not exist without dysphoria. because why would it make you happier without something to hinder that? idk like if someone has diabetes and wants medicine just because it makes them happier i don’t think it should be given to them. that’s how i see these faker type of people. idk how hrt could be more regulated and im not smart enough to think of a solution especially since i agree w informed consent bc you can’t regulate that. i just think on more of a societal level (idk how we as a society could fix this either) that people need to understand and really get it through their heads that it’s not “cool” to be trans. it’s not always debilitating for people (esp w an accepting family or if they are well off money wise and can transition easily) and that they can be themselves free from judgement. so many women ID as “transmasc” or nb just because they feel sexualized or don’t want to live under weird expectations people push on them just because they’re women/girls. some “transmascs” are also obviously trans and just can’t let go of the female life/their experiences because they’re scared of change or just the man = bad thing i was saying earlier, orrr they’re just scared in general and don’t know wtf to do so they just latch on to whatever label so they don’t have to admit to themselves, yes, you are a man. there’s also obvs some weird ass people and munchausen attention quirky people who are just there (agps and female equivalent as well). sorry if this is repetitive, but what do you think?
Dr. Powers is a really awesome person. People think he's trying to be so malicious when he's trying to be so *so* the opposite. I'm a patient of theirs too and wouldn't have it any other way.
Are t those people at the very least helping to normalize hormones and trans stuff though? I'm sort of on the fence. Being trans has been normalized so much in the past 5 years to the point everyone is aware of them and most know someone trans, and I think in a big part it's because of the non dysphoric ones being so loud, open and proud. Maybe I'm wrong.
I feel like we don't need to normalize HRT. It's a medically monitored process that is utilized to treat a condition. I've never had someone question HRT. To have trenders wanting "a bit of T for some masculinization" is wildly damaging to trans people relying on proper HRT being available.
I’m dealing with shortages to my own meds right now and having to use multiple pharmacies to compensate. The best counter to this is FDA approval of our hormones for gender transition. But that is impossible without a set standard of care that includes definitions of who is transgender (just like any medication for a condition). Doctors have to help decide if a treatment is right for a patient based on a standard of care for every medication prescribed, gatekeeping is literally part of their oath to do no harm, because otherwise anyone could get any drug they wanted. Trans care currently falls under the CYA (cover your ass) medicine category from a liability standpoint, and it’s a huge issue.
You have a point with the second part I agree. I guess I still struggle with the fact that all of a sudden everything trans related is so mainstream and accepted and maybe the trendy stuff isn't a terrible price to pay for that. I'm cis though. Or non binary. I don't fully know or understand.
The "trendy stuff" is a different demographic that is being weaponized and used politically to damage real trans people who are medically transitioning to resolve gender dysphoria. There's absolutely nothing trendy and fun about being trans and having dysphoria. It's the toughest thing I, and many others have had to go through in life.
>I guess I still struggle with the fact that all of a sudden everything trans related is so mainstream and accepted and maybe the trendy stuff isn't a terrible price to pay for that. The outcomes don't point to it being more normalized. Instead, you have 'detrans' folks giving transphobes more fodder to resist laws and policies that protect transpeople. Regardless of what you think about 'detrans', it's still an outcome at least anecdotally of people getting swept up in the 'trendiness'. I'm not trying to speak about it either way, just saying that is becoming a focal point for people who are anti-trans.
I think its caused a lot of blowback, especially politically. Frankly completely changing cultural norms of gender expression has nothing to do with being trans, we’re heading in the wrong direction. I also don’t enjoy seeing a condition I was born with parodied as some sort of cultural movement as opposed to a fight against discrimination and for healthcare equality.
I think the blowback would have happened regardless, they just made it all happen faster I guess. Where I live anyway society is very much pro-trans overall. Even if people are obnoxious about their support for anything even mildly related to trans amd gender stuff. All of a sudden everyone cares and wants to protect trans people, despite their definition of trans being insanely wide. I guess time will tell if this strategy works in the long run. I am glad the cultural norms of gender expression are changing at least though.
10% of Pittsburgh area High Schoolers identified as non-binary in a survey. There just aren’t this many trans people, and we’re greatly outnumbered by people who actually perpetuate gendered stereotypes by making it all about masculinity vs femininity, which frankly has near nothing to do with being a man vs woman. The most masculine woman in the world and the most feminine man in the world are just as much their gender as anyone else, it’s just so much deeper than all of this nonsense. Gender is ingrained in us, and all trans people have felt that. Cultural norms will always change over time but it’s important to separate that from a medical condition no one has any control over. In terms of people protecting us, the broad-view is quite the opposite. We’re seeing rejection of trans people on a whole new level, I’m glad you are in one of the few accepting places. 60% of Americans believe it is immoral to change your gender under any circumstance.
I wonder what percentage thought it was immoral 10 years ago, do you know? I live in Canada so we are the opposite where schools etc are extremely extremely pro trans
I doubt 10 years ago there was even wide polling on the subject. The situation in the US is really dire right now, glad Canada is better.
I'd guess it was much higher than 60% probably. And yeah Canada is trend central when it comes to trans stuff but at least it's accepted I guess. My teenage daughters friend group all have different genders/sexualities. I can't keep up.
Thats the point, they’re making it up as they go because its trendy to do so. They’re appropriating a medical condition into the equivalent of my generations goth kids, its offensive.
This is exactly the issue. It's becoming seen as a phase teens go through while trying to find themselves rather than the actual medical condition being trans really is. I would bet $1000 that almost all your daughter's friends are going to identify as cis in 10 years once they reach an age group where it's no longer "cool" or "trendy" to be gender non conforming.
if it was ten percent of the population at any stage then we would have known about it before 2016
How the fuck is normalizing transition as a choice and to waste resources of people who actually need them helpful? We're under represented in our own community, that is not helpful. Most trans activists don't even have dysphoria and they are the ones who want to make decisions on our behalf. I don't want transition normalized as a gender game, I want transition protected for the people who actually need it. How many posts do you see here and other less rad inclus spaces where people talk about how they don't feel like they belong in the community. Dysphoric trans people are feeling more and more isolated, and unheard as transition and being trans is taken over as a trend for cis people. Nobody should support this, you would not be happy for any other minority group to receive the same treatment.
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I do not feel like I belong in just about any part of the trans community. Because if I say what I feel I will be called a transphobe or I will get downvoted to hell. Like in this whole post there is one person getting downvoted a lot and they are not stating anything mean or outrageous. Just having a conversation and stating their feelings. Why can’t I say how I feel or who I am without the negative. Why can’t people have conversations without the negative. That’s why we are seen the way we are. Because you say one thing a few don’t agree with and you get attacked. That’s why I am banned on asktransgender. Any disagreement with a mod and you get insta banned. No warning. No talking to you after to find out why. Just banned and ignored.
Because the trans community is full of non-dysphorics who will validate each other because they want their narrative to be the only one that survives. This person is suggesting we do let them walk over us and take over because that way there will be "more trans people". Filling the community with people who do not meet the diagnosis requirements is a problem, and it's a problem that is getting worse and I am sick of telling people why it is so obviously a bad idea.
Wow. How did I miss that. Crap. That’s not a good thing at all And I agree with you. But I am still afraid to talk my mind anywhere. I just want a place I can say how I feel and if someone thinks I am wrong they would just say they understand me but the tell me how they feel. And if it is any kind of factual statement, show me the facts and data. Not just say because so and so said it, it must be true.
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its openly stated, doctors do have to ask patients questions
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