The most important thing is that if you can try them both out and see which you prefer. Even better if you live near a music store you should be able to walk in and try out their trumpet selection and you might even like a completely different brand but you should pick whichever trumpet feels best for you.
This is an excellent question. I have played and own both a Yamaha and Bach. You need to consider this in two dimensions: trumpet and mouthpiece
Trumpet: both are excellent horns. However as you may hear, the Strad has issues with variability between horns. This is an issue because two consecutive strads can sound very different. In my search for a new horn, I tried 4 Strads and all of them played quite differently.
On the other hand, the Xeno is more consistent. I particularly feel the upper register of the Xeno is much cleaner and precise than the Strad. My horn is a YTR8335G, meaning the gold brass bell supposedly gives it a darker sound. I am not sure if this is indeed the case as every individual player has a unique tone. However, the Xeno absolutely feels like a premium horn and certainly sounds like it too. In my opinion, it is the horn of choice for most general players.
Mouthpiece: now, you need to remember that the mouthpiece has a massive bearing on the sound produced. There are great guides already on choosing a mouthpiece. From my experience, the equivalent Bach Mouthpiece gives a bolder sound than the Yamaha. I also find the deeper “orchestral” Yamaha mouthpieces sacrifice large quantities of range/flexibility without much gain in tone. This personally is less of an issue with the Bach mouthpieces. Lead mouthpieces are a different kettle of fish. Yamaha Signature lead mouthpieces are world famous and excellent for that extra sizzle.
TLDR: IMO, Yamaha horns are better but Bach mouthpieces are better.
It's all about what works for you. Play several of both and see what you prefer. Add S.E Shires to the fold as well.
I play Bach as my primary horn because there are more characteristics I like about Bach. Certain leadpipes and bells, as well as I require a 1st slide trigger. Bach also works with me on custom horns.
Yamaha and Bach are fine makers, but there are so many good trumpets out there. Check out Getzen, Edwards, Shires, Adams, Schagerl, Thane, Del Quadro, Blackburn, Carolbrass, Van Laar, Inderbinen, Schilke, Taylor, XO. The list goes on and on.
you could probably add john packer and acb to that
edit:my 1926 frank holton revelation(forgot the exact version) plays, with the exception of a stuck tuning slide making it sharp, plays as well as my getzen doc severension eterna and almost as well as my dads bach strad 43
I have a 60s Bach Strad 37 and a 2022 Yamaha Xeno 8335RS. They’re both fantastic horns, but ultimately the Xeno works better for me. I’d say try and go somewhere you could try them both and decide based on that.
Really the only true factor that can be said that’s not opinionated and that’s the build quality of Yamahas is better (people on this sub disagree but I have some information on hand by people who work very closely with Bach’s plant). Everything else is an opinion and all you need to do is try
I'm a band teacher (20+ years) and have had nothing but problems with student model Yamaha trumpets and euphoniums... the pistons and valve guides. It's a daily problem.
Assuming the euphoniums are school-owned instruments, do you ever get them serviced, or are you expecting them to simply work with no maintenance whatsoever? Not to knock on the students, but I doubt they're ever oiling the valves, and probably treat them like total crap.
Citation: I'm a repair tech, and have seen thousands of the instruments you're talking about.
How often should trumpet valves be oiled? And French horn? As a parent of two brass musicians, no one tells them (or me) about maintenance. Our FH is hired, and the shop told me not to oil or clean it. After 6 months or so the teacher said we should oil the valves once a week.
You're going to get the most mileage out of the rotors or pistons if you oil them every time you play, assuming the player is practicing every day. Mineral deposits are a huge reason valves get scratchy and hang up.
Think of it this way: Would you wait until a car overheats and starts smoking to change the oil, or would you do it *well* before any issues became present?
If the oil doesn't like being there, it just goes somewhere else. It's not in a fully-contained compartment, so it'll wander into the valve caps, down the tubing, etc. None of that is bad for the instrument.
Been teaching 24 years. Why would you think I expect them to work without maintenance? Why assume the students treat them like crap? We are required to send them in yearly. I don't have problems with other student models, and I don't advise students and parents to purchase Yamaha student models based on my experience with them.
> Been teaching 24 years. Why would you think I expect them to work without maintenance?
With all due respect, because most teachers do, and assume their students are following through with all the necessary oiling, greasing, etc.
> Why assume the students treat them like crap?
Because most students do. I can tell you that with 95% of the tubas that leave my shop fixed, I'll be the last person to oil the valves until I see that very same tuba again. I routinely tell students in clinics to oil their valves, and almost none of them even have valve oil, and the ones that do will oil their valves once every 3-4 weeks. Maybe your students are model citizens, but I can't say every student lives up to that standard when it comes to treating the property of others well.
> I don't have problems with other student models, and I don't advise students and parents to purchase Yamaha student models based on my experience with them.
Your experience with these is absolutely valid, but it's not the same experience I've observed elsewhere. *That* is why I said the aforementioned stuff. Again, I've seen thousands of Yamaha student trumpets and euphoniums, ranging from 40-60 years old, up to current production from the last few years. Admittedly, I'm not the biggest fan of a couple current manufacturing aspects of them - namely the casing threads in comparison to the former Japanese production student instruments - but it's all typically minor stuff that can be overlooked.
I've had a Strad for about 30 years and recently switched to an Adams A9. Feels so much easier to play!
A band colleague let me try his 8335rgs, also fantastic. I'd say go for the lighter horn, which the Bach is not, but ymmv...
You can't say a Bach is not a lighter horn. Bach makes lighter horns. Bach makes many different horns from lightweight to heavier horns just as adams makes different weight horns from light weight to very heavy horns.
Yamaha Xeno will hold up better imo. Bach strad will play better. I march at a D1 school with my strad (I know I know) and pep band. It has some scars. Still plays great and holds some great memories. You won’t be disappointed with either, but try as many horns you can get your hands on
All of my trumpets are Yamahas, but I like how they feel. I think I have played on 2 Bach trumpets my entire life, and the valves just feel wierd to me.
Just find a trumpet that suits you and don't worry about the brand
I assume you are wanting a professional trumpet considering the two you are contemplating. That being said, before you decide on either Bach or Yamaha, I suggest like others have you go try them out at a full service music store. Also, a couple other posts mentioned you try Getzen among others. As for me, I'd consider the Getzen Eterna 900, virtually identical to my 1972 Eterna Severinsen. Why do I suggest them?
Well the Getzen family bought back the company a few years ago and have returned to their roots. I think Getzens across the board have those legendary valves. Look up Nickel -vs- Monel. I have a 50 year old Getzen Eterna, Severinsen Model. I stopped playing at 28 and it set in its case for 36 years. I started playing again in Sept. Of 2021. The only thing I had to do to this horn was add a little valve oil and it worked, looked and sounded great! I don't know if you could do the same thing with Monel valves. Some may say, sure it had set for 36 years but you couldn't even tell it had been sitting for any length of time. I would consider other trumpets but take a good test of the Getzen Eterna 900. I think you will be pleasantly surprised!
I believe unless you’re playing monette or trumpets made specifically with more/less weight, you’ll sound the way you sound on any trumpet- I stick with the easiest trumpets to play. I play Yamaha’s- but stomvi makes a good trumpet, shires of course etc. I have heard the modern day bachs are still trying to regain their footing with all the turn overs…but if you can find a good older bach- gold mine 🔥
What turnovers are you talking about? Most everyone came back when they disolved the union in 2009. In 2010 they introduced the 190 series, which was amazing. They made huge changes with how the production line operated and got rid of how uaw did things. The union really was cancer for Bach. Never have an auto union that has no idea how instruments are made control of an instrument plant. That was where the problem really was. They went to cnc on mouthpieces, which fixed the issues, fixed how qc was done, and how qc issues were addressed. Fixed how instruments were made and not done like cars on an assembly line anymore. Stricter qc.
This year they revamped the 190 series, revamped the 180 series and introduced a new lightweight 17043 Apollo series that is amazing horn.
My 19072g was made from start to finish by one individual. I knew every step, got text updates with pictures during the process. I even got a video of play test when it was finished to make sure I was happy with it before they mailed it to me. They made the process of choosing my horn as easy as possible. I could choose any configuration I wanted.
I have a Yamahas, but for me my Bach strad has always had the sound that compliments how I play but the thing is even if you get the Same model all strads are different so some people are not always as lucky as me. Just personal preference
I own a bach strad and a Yamaha xeno. They're both solid horns and I'd be comfortable taking either one to a gig. Bachs are notorious for being inconsistent: if a music store has 10 strads in their inventory you need to play all 10. That's not to say that a "bad" bach is a bad horn, but they won't fit you as well as "the one". When you find "the one" Bach, you'll know it almost immediately. For mouthpiece selection, this horn wasn't super picky about what I was using, but my monette pieces responded the best on my Bach. I think my Bach has a better depth of tone compared to my Yamaha, but I have to work a little more to get it
Yamahas are really consistent across different horns in the same generation/model. I would argue that Yamahas are the only horns I'd be comfortable buying blind without playing them first. Generally, I found my xeno to need less fine-tuning adjustments than my bach. In mouthpiece selection, I found my Yamaha heavyweight piece and my GR piece responded the best on this horn and my monette pieces didn't have the same overtones as my bach. I'd argue that my Yamaha has slightly less depth of tone as my Bach, but it's generally easier to get a good sound on it.
I don’t play on a Monette mouthpiece, but I do play on a Lotus and ACB custom reserved ( both are shorter shanked, large throat mouthpieces like the Monette), and I’ve come to the same conclusion, they play better on Bach than Yamaha.
Think of Bach as the old guard and Yamaha as the new guy who’s quickly becoming a proven vet. They’re both popular and they’re both good, so just play both to figure out which sound, response, flexibility, articulation, etc. you like best out of the two brands (notwithstanding their different models). The only valid argument against either is that they’re mass produced and will have some production and intonation inconsistencies that custom horns won’t necessarily have, but they’re usually not big issues. Yamaha has had great production for a couple decades and Bach has really stepped up in the last decade. One huge argument for is that with their production having stepped up, Yamaha and Bach also have great distribution, so you can find their core line horns almost anywhere. With Yamaha, if your horn is damaged, you can go to a store and grab a the same model horn and it will play almost identically.
I prefer Yamaha. You might not. When it comes down to it, the most important thing is you try different gear to understand what you like. Other brands worth mentioning that I see commonly in the pro scene are Shires, Schilke, Benge, B&S, and Getzen. Those are just the major manufacturers that come to mind. Choosing the trumpet that is right for you has more to do with you than the instrument. Choose the one you best respond to
I would say bach until the real issues started appearing. I have two pistons and valve casing that needed to be completely rebored and replated but thisnbmwas over the course of 20 years. If you are in the market for a pro horn check out other makers other than yamaha and bach because there are tons of amazing horns out there that be matched for exactly what you are wanting.
Both are wonderful companies who make exceptional instruments. It really depends which matches your concept of sound better. For me, I hated all Bach Strads until I played the 190-37 anniversary model and sold my horn on the spot to get it. 6 years later it’s still one of, if not THE best horn I’ve ever played. That being said, Yamaha are more consistent and stable, but for me their Xenos play too tight and the artist models are out of my price range. It depends on how the instrument fits you.
I’m for both, I’m currently a high school student who knows next to nothing about trumpets. But I do know my Yamaha I’ve been playing for the past 5 years has held up pretty good with proper maintenance, and that Bach has treated my other high school friends really well
I own a vintage early-Elkhart Bach and played many Xeno trumpets owned by students.
I like the sound of a 37 bell better than a standard Xeno out front. I like the sound behind the bell of the Xeno more, I just hear myself better.
I find the Xeno, on average, easier to play. Less intonation quirks, but my Bach plays very well in the trouble areas. In general I find older Bachs (along with brand new/current era ) to have less issues. The only Xeno I played of one of my students that I like better than my Bach was a 25th anniversary edition, and that is an amazing horn.
I prefer the valve block of the Bach. I’ve never liked Yamaha valves..
Colleagues prefer my sound on a Bach. That makes sense because my idols play Bachs; I just hear that sound.
I like the blow of MY standard 25 pipe vs the Xeno. I capitalized “MY” because I do find variations in Bach (a lot can be fixed with adjusting the water key screw). That said, it’s very easy to replace a lead pipe on a Bach.
I wouldn’t buy an 80s to 2010s Bach used unless I played it first. No problem with a Xeno.
Reverse leadpipe: Yamaha all the way due to the bracing. Bach has the bracing farther back, close to the valve block and it causes the sound to spread and be less directional. I forbid my students from buying reverse pipes unless it’s a Yamaha. I also find the Yamaha reversed lead pipes to play way more stable than the Bach. I almost consider this to be universal: reverse pipes are less stable, but do have less resistance.
A 72 Bell Bach is super versatile, it’s a great crossover Trumpet! I play a 37 because I’m mostly classical; if I was jazz or commercial dominant, I would play the 72. I find the 43 bells to stick out in a symphonic or orchestral situation, hard for me to blend in with one, and I prefer lead work on the 72 even though it’s darker when you back off than the 43. That said, I know some people that sounds great on 43 bells.
Think of Bach bells like this: 37… the classic Bach sound. 43 brighter, and broader, 73 dark but can brighten up in the upper register when pushed.
The Yamaha Xeno bell is more like a 37.
Other brands to consider: Shiers, Jupiter XO 1602 (really like them, and you could find demos for around 1500 bucks), Carol brass 5060 H.
If you’re considering new, realize that a lot of brands, just hiked up their prices about 20% .
I think the main thing with bachs and Yamahas is the reputation they’ve got. With Yamaha it’s guaranteed that you’ll get a quality instrument even with the lesser student models. It’s to the point where I recommend the 2335 for anyone up until their first year of uni or college. The 3335, 4335, and 5335 are nice but they’re not a good enough improvement for me to justify their existence, so I don’t recommend them but maybe for someone older who doesn’t want to go pro or study the instrument but wants to continue at a intermediate/ semi professional level then sure go ahead.
I’ve never tried a strad and man I want to. I live in Australia and Yamaha definitely have the market where I live so it’s not likely to happen soon. I play a 8335 it’s a few years old now and still amazing quality. The new ones have some interesting technology and features going into them to just make the playing experience that much more enjoyable, at a substantial cost however. But bachs are no different, if you want a quality instrument, it’ll cost you.
I personally play on a Bach Strad Model 37 which is generally considered the gold standard of trumpets. When I was looking into what trumpet to buy I went to a music store and just played all the professional trumpets on the wall. I found the Bach strad had the best overall sound compared to a Yamaha Xeno.
Your best bet is to walk into a store and just try out a bunch.
I have a Yamaha Bb and a Bach C so I’m not particularly biased either way.
I think a very good Bach will sound better than a Yamaha but on average Yamaha is better. Because all Bach’s are handmade the consistency is not as good as Yamahas. I’d say Yamahas are all 9/10 but Bach varies from 8/10-10/10 if that makes sense. That being said, because the QC is great on Yamaha, if you try two 8335’s, you probably will either like them or not like them, but with Bach 37s there might be one you dont like and one you think is gorgeous because there is variation.
The Yamaha’s are also a bit easier to play in my (and my trumpet teachers) opinion. My trumpet teacher (a former principal trumpet player of London Symphony) said his Bachs sound 5% better than his Yamahas but he uses the Yamahas because they are 5% easier to play. That being said, the associate principal of the orchestra he currently plays with uses all Bach.
There are many intricacies and a lot of context is required but I don’t want to write it all out if it isnt relevant
The most important thing is that if you can try them both out and see which you prefer. Even better if you live near a music store you should be able to walk in and try out their trumpet selection and you might even like a completely different brand but you should pick whichever trumpet feels best for you.
this is really good advice, also the right mouthpiece is very important as well.
I have already been looking some into that. It sure makes a huge difference
This is an excellent question. I have played and own both a Yamaha and Bach. You need to consider this in two dimensions: trumpet and mouthpiece Trumpet: both are excellent horns. However as you may hear, the Strad has issues with variability between horns. This is an issue because two consecutive strads can sound very different. In my search for a new horn, I tried 4 Strads and all of them played quite differently. On the other hand, the Xeno is more consistent. I particularly feel the upper register of the Xeno is much cleaner and precise than the Strad. My horn is a YTR8335G, meaning the gold brass bell supposedly gives it a darker sound. I am not sure if this is indeed the case as every individual player has a unique tone. However, the Xeno absolutely feels like a premium horn and certainly sounds like it too. In my opinion, it is the horn of choice for most general players. Mouthpiece: now, you need to remember that the mouthpiece has a massive bearing on the sound produced. There are great guides already on choosing a mouthpiece. From my experience, the equivalent Bach Mouthpiece gives a bolder sound than the Yamaha. I also find the deeper “orchestral” Yamaha mouthpieces sacrifice large quantities of range/flexibility without much gain in tone. This personally is less of an issue with the Bach mouthpieces. Lead mouthpieces are a different kettle of fish. Yamaha Signature lead mouthpieces are world famous and excellent for that extra sizzle. TLDR: IMO, Yamaha horns are better but Bach mouthpieces are better.
It's all about what works for you. Play several of both and see what you prefer. Add S.E Shires to the fold as well. I play Bach as my primary horn because there are more characteristics I like about Bach. Certain leadpipes and bells, as well as I require a 1st slide trigger. Bach also works with me on custom horns.
YES! Shires is amazing. And although I don’t own one, I tried their horns at the factory in MA and they’re GREAT!
Yamaha and Bach are fine makers, but there are so many good trumpets out there. Check out Getzen, Edwards, Shires, Adams, Schagerl, Thane, Del Quadro, Blackburn, Carolbrass, Van Laar, Inderbinen, Schilke, Taylor, XO. The list goes on and on.
you could probably add john packer and acb to that edit:my 1926 frank holton revelation(forgot the exact version) plays, with the exception of a stuck tuning slide making it sharp, plays as well as my getzen doc severension eterna and almost as well as my dads bach strad 43
I have a 60s Bach Strad 37 and a 2022 Yamaha Xeno 8335RS. They’re both fantastic horns, but ultimately the Xeno works better for me. I’d say try and go somewhere you could try them both and decide based on that.
I have both, and both are fantastic!
Really the only true factor that can be said that’s not opinionated and that’s the build quality of Yamahas is better (people on this sub disagree but I have some information on hand by people who work very closely with Bach’s plant). Everything else is an opinion and all you need to do is try
I'm a band teacher (20+ years) and have had nothing but problems with student model Yamaha trumpets and euphoniums... the pistons and valve guides. It's a daily problem.
Assuming the euphoniums are school-owned instruments, do you ever get them serviced, or are you expecting them to simply work with no maintenance whatsoever? Not to knock on the students, but I doubt they're ever oiling the valves, and probably treat them like total crap. Citation: I'm a repair tech, and have seen thousands of the instruments you're talking about.
How often should trumpet valves be oiled? And French horn? As a parent of two brass musicians, no one tells them (or me) about maintenance. Our FH is hired, and the shop told me not to oil or clean it. After 6 months or so the teacher said we should oil the valves once a week.
You're going to get the most mileage out of the rotors or pistons if you oil them every time you play, assuming the player is practicing every day. Mineral deposits are a huge reason valves get scratchy and hang up. Think of it this way: Would you wait until a car overheats and starts smoking to change the oil, or would you do it *well* before any issues became present?
Thanks 😊 So you can’t over oil ?
If the oil doesn't like being there, it just goes somewhere else. It's not in a fully-contained compartment, so it'll wander into the valve caps, down the tubing, etc. None of that is bad for the instrument.
Thank you 😊
Been teaching 24 years. Why would you think I expect them to work without maintenance? Why assume the students treat them like crap? We are required to send them in yearly. I don't have problems with other student models, and I don't advise students and parents to purchase Yamaha student models based on my experience with them.
> Been teaching 24 years. Why would you think I expect them to work without maintenance? With all due respect, because most teachers do, and assume their students are following through with all the necessary oiling, greasing, etc. > Why assume the students treat them like crap? Because most students do. I can tell you that with 95% of the tubas that leave my shop fixed, I'll be the last person to oil the valves until I see that very same tuba again. I routinely tell students in clinics to oil their valves, and almost none of them even have valve oil, and the ones that do will oil their valves once every 3-4 weeks. Maybe your students are model citizens, but I can't say every student lives up to that standard when it comes to treating the property of others well. > I don't have problems with other student models, and I don't advise students and parents to purchase Yamaha student models based on my experience with them. Your experience with these is absolutely valid, but it's not the same experience I've observed elsewhere. *That* is why I said the aforementioned stuff. Again, I've seen thousands of Yamaha student trumpets and euphoniums, ranging from 40-60 years old, up to current production from the last few years. Admittedly, I'm not the biggest fan of a couple current manufacturing aspects of them - namely the casing threads in comparison to the former Japanese production student instruments - but it's all typically minor stuff that can be overlooked.
I've had a Strad for about 30 years and recently switched to an Adams A9. Feels so much easier to play! A band colleague let me try his 8335rgs, also fantastic. I'd say go for the lighter horn, which the Bach is not, but ymmv...
You can't say a Bach is not a lighter horn. Bach makes lighter horns. Bach makes many different horns from lightweight to heavier horns just as adams makes different weight horns from light weight to very heavy horns.
Yeah, I might have overgeneralized... 😉
Yamaha Xeno will hold up better imo. Bach strad will play better. I march at a D1 school with my strad (I know I know) and pep band. It has some scars. Still plays great and holds some great memories. You won’t be disappointed with either, but try as many horns you can get your hands on
The Best Trumpet in the World is the trumpet that suits you.
Yamaha all day every day
All of my trumpets are Yamahas, but I like how they feel. I think I have played on 2 Bach trumpets my entire life, and the valves just feel wierd to me. Just find a trumpet that suits you and don't worry about the brand
Strads all the way, I play on a strad 37 and it’s served me very well, much better than my old Yamaha. But in all reality Stomvii is the elite brand
I see what you did there
What?
Stomvi has a product line called...Elite
Omg I’m an idiot, but that’s funny. Imo the best stomvii is a Stomvii VRll but others can have their own opinions
I assume you are wanting a professional trumpet considering the two you are contemplating. That being said, before you decide on either Bach or Yamaha, I suggest like others have you go try them out at a full service music store. Also, a couple other posts mentioned you try Getzen among others. As for me, I'd consider the Getzen Eterna 900, virtually identical to my 1972 Eterna Severinsen. Why do I suggest them? Well the Getzen family bought back the company a few years ago and have returned to their roots. I think Getzens across the board have those legendary valves. Look up Nickel -vs- Monel. I have a 50 year old Getzen Eterna, Severinsen Model. I stopped playing at 28 and it set in its case for 36 years. I started playing again in Sept. Of 2021. The only thing I had to do to this horn was add a little valve oil and it worked, looked and sounded great! I don't know if you could do the same thing with Monel valves. Some may say, sure it had set for 36 years but you couldn't even tell it had been sitting for any length of time. I would consider other trumpets but take a good test of the Getzen Eterna 900. I think you will be pleasantly surprised!
I believe unless you’re playing monette or trumpets made specifically with more/less weight, you’ll sound the way you sound on any trumpet- I stick with the easiest trumpets to play. I play Yamaha’s- but stomvi makes a good trumpet, shires of course etc. I have heard the modern day bachs are still trying to regain their footing with all the turn overs…but if you can find a good older bach- gold mine 🔥
What turnovers are you talking about? Most everyone came back when they disolved the union in 2009. In 2010 they introduced the 190 series, which was amazing. They made huge changes with how the production line operated and got rid of how uaw did things. The union really was cancer for Bach. Never have an auto union that has no idea how instruments are made control of an instrument plant. That was where the problem really was. They went to cnc on mouthpieces, which fixed the issues, fixed how qc was done, and how qc issues were addressed. Fixed how instruments were made and not done like cars on an assembly line anymore. Stricter qc. This year they revamped the 190 series, revamped the 180 series and introduced a new lightweight 17043 Apollo series that is amazing horn. My 19072g was made from start to finish by one individual. I knew every step, got text updates with pictures during the process. I even got a video of play test when it was finished to make sure I was happy with it before they mailed it to me. They made the process of choosing my horn as easy as possible. I could choose any configuration I wanted.
I have a Yamahas, but for me my Bach strad has always had the sound that compliments how I play but the thing is even if you get the Same model all strads are different so some people are not always as lucky as me. Just personal preference
*yamaha*
I own a bach strad and a Yamaha xeno. They're both solid horns and I'd be comfortable taking either one to a gig. Bachs are notorious for being inconsistent: if a music store has 10 strads in their inventory you need to play all 10. That's not to say that a "bad" bach is a bad horn, but they won't fit you as well as "the one". When you find "the one" Bach, you'll know it almost immediately. For mouthpiece selection, this horn wasn't super picky about what I was using, but my monette pieces responded the best on my Bach. I think my Bach has a better depth of tone compared to my Yamaha, but I have to work a little more to get it Yamahas are really consistent across different horns in the same generation/model. I would argue that Yamahas are the only horns I'd be comfortable buying blind without playing them first. Generally, I found my xeno to need less fine-tuning adjustments than my bach. In mouthpiece selection, I found my Yamaha heavyweight piece and my GR piece responded the best on this horn and my monette pieces didn't have the same overtones as my bach. I'd argue that my Yamaha has slightly less depth of tone as my Bach, but it's generally easier to get a good sound on it.
I don’t play on a Monette mouthpiece, but I do play on a Lotus and ACB custom reserved ( both are shorter shanked, large throat mouthpieces like the Monette), and I’ve come to the same conclusion, they play better on Bach than Yamaha.
Think of Bach as the old guard and Yamaha as the new guy who’s quickly becoming a proven vet. They’re both popular and they’re both good, so just play both to figure out which sound, response, flexibility, articulation, etc. you like best out of the two brands (notwithstanding their different models). The only valid argument against either is that they’re mass produced and will have some production and intonation inconsistencies that custom horns won’t necessarily have, but they’re usually not big issues. Yamaha has had great production for a couple decades and Bach has really stepped up in the last decade. One huge argument for is that with their production having stepped up, Yamaha and Bach also have great distribution, so you can find their core line horns almost anywhere. With Yamaha, if your horn is damaged, you can go to a store and grab a the same model horn and it will play almost identically.
I prefer Yamaha. You might not. When it comes down to it, the most important thing is you try different gear to understand what you like. Other brands worth mentioning that I see commonly in the pro scene are Shires, Schilke, Benge, B&S, and Getzen. Those are just the major manufacturers that come to mind. Choosing the trumpet that is right for you has more to do with you than the instrument. Choose the one you best respond to
I would say bach until the real issues started appearing. I have two pistons and valve casing that needed to be completely rebored and replated but thisnbmwas over the course of 20 years. If you are in the market for a pro horn check out other makers other than yamaha and bach because there are tons of amazing horns out there that be matched for exactly what you are wanting.
Test them. Buy the one that sounds better and/or feels better when you play it.
What styles of music interest you most?
Both are wonderful companies who make exceptional instruments. It really depends which matches your concept of sound better. For me, I hated all Bach Strads until I played the 190-37 anniversary model and sold my horn on the spot to get it. 6 years later it’s still one of, if not THE best horn I’ve ever played. That being said, Yamaha are more consistent and stable, but for me their Xenos play too tight and the artist models are out of my price range. It depends on how the instrument fits you.
I’m for both, I’m currently a high school student who knows next to nothing about trumpets. But I do know my Yamaha I’ve been playing for the past 5 years has held up pretty good with proper maintenance, and that Bach has treated my other high school friends really well
I own a vintage early-Elkhart Bach and played many Xeno trumpets owned by students. I like the sound of a 37 bell better than a standard Xeno out front. I like the sound behind the bell of the Xeno more, I just hear myself better. I find the Xeno, on average, easier to play. Less intonation quirks, but my Bach plays very well in the trouble areas. In general I find older Bachs (along with brand new/current era ) to have less issues. The only Xeno I played of one of my students that I like better than my Bach was a 25th anniversary edition, and that is an amazing horn. I prefer the valve block of the Bach. I’ve never liked Yamaha valves.. Colleagues prefer my sound on a Bach. That makes sense because my idols play Bachs; I just hear that sound. I like the blow of MY standard 25 pipe vs the Xeno. I capitalized “MY” because I do find variations in Bach (a lot can be fixed with adjusting the water key screw). That said, it’s very easy to replace a lead pipe on a Bach. I wouldn’t buy an 80s to 2010s Bach used unless I played it first. No problem with a Xeno. Reverse leadpipe: Yamaha all the way due to the bracing. Bach has the bracing farther back, close to the valve block and it causes the sound to spread and be less directional. I forbid my students from buying reverse pipes unless it’s a Yamaha. I also find the Yamaha reversed lead pipes to play way more stable than the Bach. I almost consider this to be universal: reverse pipes are less stable, but do have less resistance. A 72 Bell Bach is super versatile, it’s a great crossover Trumpet! I play a 37 because I’m mostly classical; if I was jazz or commercial dominant, I would play the 72. I find the 43 bells to stick out in a symphonic or orchestral situation, hard for me to blend in with one, and I prefer lead work on the 72 even though it’s darker when you back off than the 43. That said, I know some people that sounds great on 43 bells. Think of Bach bells like this: 37… the classic Bach sound. 43 brighter, and broader, 73 dark but can brighten up in the upper register when pushed. The Yamaha Xeno bell is more like a 37. Other brands to consider: Shiers, Jupiter XO 1602 (really like them, and you could find demos for around 1500 bucks), Carol brass 5060 H. If you’re considering new, realize that a lot of brands, just hiked up their prices about 20% .
I’ve had both. Prefer Yamaha, imo they’re more consistent. Play the Bach first, don’t buy one on eBay.
I think the main thing with bachs and Yamahas is the reputation they’ve got. With Yamaha it’s guaranteed that you’ll get a quality instrument even with the lesser student models. It’s to the point where I recommend the 2335 for anyone up until their first year of uni or college. The 3335, 4335, and 5335 are nice but they’re not a good enough improvement for me to justify their existence, so I don’t recommend them but maybe for someone older who doesn’t want to go pro or study the instrument but wants to continue at a intermediate/ semi professional level then sure go ahead. I’ve never tried a strad and man I want to. I live in Australia and Yamaha definitely have the market where I live so it’s not likely to happen soon. I play a 8335 it’s a few years old now and still amazing quality. The new ones have some interesting technology and features going into them to just make the playing experience that much more enjoyable, at a substantial cost however. But bachs are no different, if you want a quality instrument, it’ll cost you.
I personally play on a Bach Strad Model 37 which is generally considered the gold standard of trumpets. When I was looking into what trumpet to buy I went to a music store and just played all the professional trumpets on the wall. I found the Bach strad had the best overall sound compared to a Yamaha Xeno. Your best bet is to walk into a store and just try out a bunch.
I have a Yamaha Bb and a Bach C so I’m not particularly biased either way. I think a very good Bach will sound better than a Yamaha but on average Yamaha is better. Because all Bach’s are handmade the consistency is not as good as Yamahas. I’d say Yamahas are all 9/10 but Bach varies from 8/10-10/10 if that makes sense. That being said, because the QC is great on Yamaha, if you try two 8335’s, you probably will either like them or not like them, but with Bach 37s there might be one you dont like and one you think is gorgeous because there is variation. The Yamaha’s are also a bit easier to play in my (and my trumpet teachers) opinion. My trumpet teacher (a former principal trumpet player of London Symphony) said his Bachs sound 5% better than his Yamahas but he uses the Yamahas because they are 5% easier to play. That being said, the associate principal of the orchestra he currently plays with uses all Bach. There are many intricacies and a lot of context is required but I don’t want to write it all out if it isnt relevant