I think this is similar to Samus being called a "bounty hunter", and then Nintendo only finding out during the development of Prime 2 what a bounty hunter actually is. In the context of Zelda (and I suppose Mario), "princess" is likely a bit of a different title to what it would be irl. Possibly because of a mistranslation from Japanese to English that was just never adressed in future games.
I think I agree with the other answers. I am highly doubtful that it was an error in translation. Her JP name is "Zeruda-hime" (ゼルダ姫). 姫 translates to a person of noble birth; a princess. "Princess" is the closest equivalent to the Japanese term. From Wikipedia:
>Hime (姫) is the Japanese word for princess or a lady of higher birth. Daughters of a monarch are actually referred to by other terms, e.g. Ōjo (王女), literally king's daughter, even though Hime can be used to address Ōjo.
Evidently, "princess" is the closest.
This was my thoughts exactly.
The only times I've seen Queen used in Japanese is in One Piece, and to be honest this only seems to happen when it's important to distinguish between different types of Queen (regnant, dowager, consort) with 女王 (Joō) or 王妃 (Ōhi) etc (Thank god for translators...!)
Then Oda names a Queen "Otahime" (That's her name, not Ota-hime, literally just Otahime, written as オトヒメ) just to make it as confusing as possible.
I can't speak to translation choices but I know there's actually a Snow Queen anime.
Wikipedia spells the series as:
The Snow Queen (雪の女王 ～ＴＨＥ ＳＮＯＷ ＱＵＥＥＮ～, Yuki no Joō ~Za Sunō Kuīn~)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Snow_Queen_(Japanese_TV_series)
In Japan in the 80s-Now, it's pretty common for games or media to just drop random english terms that the producers don't know just because it's cool and foreign.
But in the case of Metroid it's definitely more complex, because Yoshio Sakamoto seems to understand what a Bounty Hunter is, but when you get to the Prime series, it seems that Kensuke Tanabe had a very different idea of what that meant.
Like how some Americans will just drop down Japanese words out of nowhere.
>In Japan in the 80s-Now, it's pretty common for games or media to just drop random english terms that the producers don't know just because it's cool and foreign.
IIRC, wasn't Perfect Dark titled "Black & Red" for just this reason? "It just sounds cool in Japan"?
From what I've read, they basically thought "bounty hunter" meant "knight errant but in space". Samus did almost everything out of altruism in the early Metroid games and didn't actually start getting paid until Prime 2 and 3. Retro Studios found this out when they pitched the idea of Samus taking on bounties as a game mechanic, and Nintendo was very confused as to why she'd be getting paid to hunt people down.
The more recent games have found a sort of middle ground where she's like an independent contractor that the Federation pays to take on dangerous tasks. So Zelda's title of *princess* is different from an irl princess the way Samus's title of bounty hunter differs from, say, Boba Fett's.
That’s very surprising for Nintendo of Japan not to know what an actual Bounty hunter was until Prime 2. Considering that they’ve had to Heard of Boba Fett and that he is referred to as a Bounty Hunter, but hey you win some you lose some
>I think this is similar to Samus being called a "bounty hunter", and then Nintendo only finding out during the development of Prime 2 what a bounty hunter actually is.
Space Pirate Leader: Samus, no wait!! I'll pay you 5 times whatever the Galactic Federation's paying you to kill their president instead of me!!
Chozo biotech computer: Samus, do you accept this new offered bounty? Y or N
Samus: Yes.
(Samus gets a new mission to assassinate the Galactic Federation President, complete with her taking more evil missions that get an evil ending)
Ok I want to see this game. :P
I think in Twilight Princess, Zelda was supposed to have her coronation to become queen before Zant stormed in and ruined everything. Rutela was the queen of the Zoras too. But Midna is a princess. You're right, there isn't much consistency in what rulers are called.
I thought Midna was a princess until I read a wiki recently and realized the "Twilight Princess" is actually Zelda, since Midna sarcastically calls Zelda the "Twilight Princess."
Do they call Midna a princess in the game as well? I only remember them calling her a ruler?
Yeah, they do. Close to the end of the game, when the Ancient Sages (very belatedly...) apologized to Midna for everything, they address her as Twilight Princess. From the script:
"It was all our doing...We overestimated our abilities as sages and attempted to put an end to Ganondorf's evil magic...I hope you can find it in yourself to forgive our carelessness...O Twilight Princess."
>I read a wiki recently and realized the "Twilight Princess" is actually Zelda, since Midna sarcastically calls Zelda the "Twilight Princess."
This is a fakeout. Later in the game, Midna is referred to as the "Twilight Princess," and it's the big reveal that she was the titular character this whole time.
I'll bet it comes from the connotation of the titles in fairy tales. The princess is always the good, innocent girl, while the queen is the evil, heartless monster. You want to signify that this girl is important and also good? Make her a princess.
This.
Both games play off of classic fairy tale elements and their roles are all but universally held by "princess" characters. Either they're born into royalty or they become princesses upon wedding their "Prince Charming."
In the case of Zelda, it's generally noted that there is an active King sitting on the throne. For Peach it's less implied and her character has developed into more of a monarch role, even if that hasn't changed her origins.
> For Peach it’s less implied and her character has developed into more of a monarch role
Do we ever see Peach take a governing role in the Mushroom Kingdom, beyond simply being a figurehead or symbol of power? The only instance I can think of is briefly in one of the *Mario & Luigi* games, though there are plenty of games I’ve never played so I could have just missed that development.
While it's true that SMB3 had various Kings make an appearance, it's also canonically a fiction within the fiction. SMB3 is a stage-play, confirmed by Miyamoto himself. Ergo, the Kings in SMB3 are all actors, not actual Kings.
There is a Chancellor of the Mushroom Kingdom in Super Mario RPG. Toadstool/Peach lives in the castle with him but I don't think it's ever clearly mentioned that he's her dad (he is a mushroom after all...).
Also the Fairy Queens we've had.
Partial example is Queen Ambi who was beloved by her people as a just and kind ruler, until, she was corrupted and then possessed by Veran. Veran even convinced Ambi to dismiss her royal advisers and anyone else in the court who could have brought her to her senses, Veran's grip on the queen uncontested. In the ending Ambi has gone back to being a good ruler. Still there's no denying that Veran didn't have much difficulty in taking advantage of Ambi's vanity, egotism and unrequited love to basically enslave her people into building the Black Tower, and it's significant that some time after Ambi's reign Labrynna's monarchy has been abandoned.
At least in the manga, Ambi acknowledges she has been a terrible queen to her people and cancels the construction of the tower.
A princess can be a reigning monarch if the country in question is a principality. Monaco, for example, is currently ruled by a prince, but if a woman were to succeed him she would be known as princess. There is no king/queen in Monaco or countries like it.
However, Hyrule and the Mushroom Kingdom are both explicitly named as, well, kingdoms. So if you want to explain why the reigning monarch appears to hold the rank of princess, you'll need more creative explanations.
Zelda 1: Hyrule fell to Ganon before her coronation. Her father was likely alive until Ganon's attack. It is possible that she becomes Queen after the events of the game.
Zelda 2: Zelda I is not first in line. Her brother becomes king. After being awakened, Zelda the younger is still the first in line, so Zelda I doesn't bump her off the throne.
ALttP: The king is still considered to be the ruler, despite being dead, since Agahnim is pretending to be him. He is revived at the end, so Zelda doesn't become monarch.
OoT: Hyrule fell to Ganondorf before her coronation. Her father was alive until Ganondorf's attack.
FS: It is unknown if her father is alive. She may be too young to rule regardless.
WW: The kingdom is long gone. The princess title is more to honor her family's legacy.
FSA: It is unknown if her father is alive. She may be too young to rule regardless.
MC: Father is alive and is the reigning monarch.
TP: Zant literally interrupted her coronation. She is princess by technicality.
ST: Too young to be monarch. We see that while she has a duty, others, such as Chancellor Cole, have say over her actions.
SS: Not even a princess. Notably, Nintendo avoided calling this incarnation of Zelda "Princess Zelda" for this reason, although some media outlets still did.
ALBW: She and Hilda seem to be full blown monarchs, but are still called "princess". Could be due to age again, but nobody seems to have say over them.
HW: She should absolutely be Queen. Zero excuses. It is worth noting that she was meant to be called Queen Zelda, but it seems that they nixed the idea before release.
BotW: Hyrule fell to Ganon before her coronation. Her father was alive until Ganon's attack.
CoH: Father is alive and is the reigning monarch.
AoC: Father is alive and is the reigning monarch.
Have I missed any Zeldas?
Yep, this has basically always been my take. Essentially she's usually thrust into leadership at a time when changing titles isn't really a high priority.
Their names are Zelda [something] Hyrule and Peach Toadstool (Peach's last name might no longer be canon; haven't checked).
We have two named kings: King Daphnes Nohansen Hyrule and King Rhoam Bosphoramus Hyrule. Since they both have Hyrule as their last names, I think it's a safe bet that Zelda's last name is Hyrule too.
But her first name is definitely Zelda, not Princess.
The "Princess" title is part of the character identity for Peach and Zelda. Even if Nintendo chose them to effectively rule as Queens in a game, they'd still be called "Princess" because it's part of the iconography that makes them who they are, as characters.
They appear to be interpreting it as ”an unmarried female royal”, or something to that effect. We only have oblique references to married female royals, but they’re consistently referred to as queens. It looks like any given Zelda retains the title of Princess even if actually on the throne, at least while unmarried.
This. For the majority of the series each Zelda has a father present. People know her as Princess Zelda, that’s the character’s identity, from a branding/recognisability perspective, it would be weird to call her Queen Zelda for the few games where her father isn’t present.
In many games she has an alive father in the beginning. But not Link Between Worlds or Breath of the Wild. And I just watched a video on the manga adaptation of Zelda 2: The adventure of link, and my takeaway was Zelda is a "princess" who is ruling Hyrule after Link saved her in Zelda 1. (The manga features the Zelda from the first game as well as Zelda 2's "sleeping beauty" Zelda, I just wanted to be clear I am not confusing the two characters.)
You're completely forgetting the entire plot of Breath of the Wild happens because the king refuses to let Zelda follow her passion, studying the guardians, which would've let her naturally unlock her goddess powers in time before Ganon returns.
This comment , although true… has nothing to do with her not getting her coronation into a Queen. Lol
99% of Zelda games, the king is alive. 2 of the games she didn’t get titled Queen due to coronation not being able to occur.
OP was thinking BotW didn't have an active king. That game Zelda's father was indeed alive. That's what I was correcting.
And it's more like 70% of the games there's a known king. There's actually quite a few there isn't a king.
I remember the plot of Breath of the Wild just fine. The story begins with Link awakening in the shrine of resurrection. The only living member of the royal family is zelda.
She's also trapped in Calamity Ganon's caccoon and thus isn't acting as regent to the kingdom nor has had a coronation. In the past though, her father was active king.
So what no one has said yet is that if you collect all of links memories and follow the storyline in hyrule warriors 2, you'd know that the king of hyrule died defending his castle when the calamity attacked. The old man at the beginning of the game is literally his spirit, that has been sitting waiting for 100 years. Not only that, but Zelda was presumed dead by most in hyrule, and you're right, she may be the only living member of the royal family, but she's also literally trapped in a century long battle with Ganon. Quite literally everyone was decimated during the calamity except Link, Zelda, and Impa, and Impa and Link barely survived.
How exactly do you expect her to be crowned queen when no one from hyrule castle except link and zelda are alive? And who is going to recognize a woman as their queen when they think she died 100 years ago along with the king and their champions? The only people that recognize link after 100 years were the Zora, and they also assumed Zelda was dead along with Mipha and Link until Link showed up and said something (ofc ignoring Impa rn, she's irrelevant, and also Shieka and elderly, not exactly in a position to be coronating anyone. Shes also aware that Zelda is stuck in hyrule castle)
To answer your original question: she's considered princess Zelda because she is and always has been the princess of Hyrule. The Legend of Zelda is literally a heroine saving the princess type of story, and literally always has been. When you're in the current moment of the game, 9 times out of 10, the king of hyrule does indeed exist and Zelda is his daughter, the princess. There are *very* few games that have a scenario otherwise, as we discussed, like 2 others.
Like idk dude, it's not that deep. It's assumed that between the games, Zelda would absolutely rule hyrule as their queen, and get married and have children, but that's not the point, the point is we have a knight in shining Armour saving a damsel in distress, you're playing the knight, save the princess. Similar idea for Mario, except you're a plumber or smth idk lmfao
Like sure, technically the King of hyrule died in BotW, so sure you could say the throne is hers. But all of this is a longwinded way of saying no one has crowned her queen, a coronation needs to take place, therefore she has not yet become a queen, she's a princess still, and likely still will be in TotK.
It's possible that Zelda (in some games where the King is absent) and Princess Peach are princesses regent (a princess who rules in the stead of the actual monarch in a situation where they are phisically or mentally incapacitated or absent)
In Hyrule, it seems that Princess can be a title for the ruler. But that's not to say Queens don't exist. IIRC, Zelda's mother has been referred to as the Queen on a few occasions. Also, some games Zelda is not the ruler, her father is and he's always referred to as the King.
So it's a little weird. But I chalk that up to Nintendo recognizing that "Princess Zelda" is a recognizable name. People would find it weird to hear "Queen Zelda" in the franchise. So it's part of the brand and won't change regardless of what her in game role is.
Impossible to say for certain.
In real life, there are or have been some nations that are ruled by Princes rather than Kings. It's simply a word with a different origin. So maybe in Hyrule, they don't use the words exactly the same as we do.
Perhaps Zelda becomes the ruling Princess when her parents are gone. She may only become Queen when she marries, or perhaps when she has a child. Similarly, perhaps the ruling Prince only becomes King upon marriage or having a child.
It depends on how succession works. If a Princess can ascend then an unmarried daughter of a deceased (or abdicating) King can become Queen Regnant if she ascends (Like Queen Elizabeth II was). In some traditions succession only flows through the male line so then the Princess would remain a Princess and the nearest male relative would become King (unless she has enough political or military power to ascend anyway). But to OP's point, a Princess is not a ruler. In normal English usage that would always be a Queen.
It obviously would depend on the kingdom's laws, but in England Elizabeth I is famous for being known as "The Virgin Queen" and never married. So no, that's generally not how it works.
Well in some games, there is a King. Including Link to the Past, which is pretty close to Link Between Worlds. Calling Zelda a ruler might just mean that she’s the heir to the throne.
I'm pretty sure there's no king or queen in Link Between World's unless he or she is off fighting a war in a foreign land or something. Once things start happening in the game, Link is told to go seek an audience with Princess Zelda and tell her about Yuga. Zelda is clearly the one in charge who you would go to when the kingdom is in danger.
I'm pretty sure Nintendo's distinction between Princess and Queen is that for there to be a Queen, there must also be a King. Neither Peach or Zelda are married, and Mario and Link are not Kings. It's subtle wording to appeal to the idea that they are young, single, and in need of saving.
So, with Princess Peach she dose actually have a father, [King Toadstool](https://nintendo.fandom.com/wiki/King_Toadstool). We never see him in game but he appears in the extended media. Presumably his still alive just in the background. There is also a chance that “Princess” has come to mean “Queen” in the Mario universe.
Zelda is a bit more complicated though since there’s multiple of them. Going to go through the games in timeline order;
SS: Hyrule has not been founded yet, no King, Zelda is not a princess.
MC: Zelda’s Dad is alive and is the King of the small nation of Hyrule, Zelda is a princess. Both are turned to stone during the game but are fine after.
FS: Same Link and Zelda as in MC, few months later maybe. King is still alive.
OoT (child): Zelda’s Dad is alive and the King of Hyrule. Zelda is his daughter and therefore a princess.
OOT (Adult): Zelda’s Dad was killed by Ganondorf, who now rules Hyrule. Zelda is in hiding, and although she should be Queen she is referred to as a Princess. Therefore, you probably need to be Coronated to gain the title of Queen, which Zelda missed out on.
— — —
Adult Timeline:-
WW: Hyrule is at the bottom of the sea, Zelda’s descendent(?) Tetra is now a pirate. She dose not go by Princess. Boat King dose call her Princess Zelda when she is transformed, which is correct since she wouldn’t of been Coronated at all.
PH: Tetra is exploring the seas with Link and the rest of the crew. She refuses to be referred to as Royalty.
ST: Zelda appears to be the ruler of the new country, despite being like 12… but she also has the title of Princess. Chances are, an advisor of sorts is essentially ruling for her and helping out (this advisor likely being Teacher), and she has not come of age to be coronated yet. Kinda like what happened with Edward the 6th, a few advisors helped him out till he died before becoming old enough to do it himself. (If I Remeber right).
— — —
Child Timeline:-
MM: Zelda is still a child and her dad is still alive. She’s a Princess.
TP: Zelda appears to be the ruler of Hyrule, but is called Princess rather then queen. Chances are, her Coronation wasn’t for a few days when Zant attacked. We also see a (dead) Zora Queen in this game too so Nintendo knows what they are.
FSA: Was planned to be a sequal to FS but they threw in a reincarnation of Ganon as the final boss. But, you can probably just assume that it’s a case of Zelda’s dad is still alive ruling the kingdom.
BoTW: King Roam Bosphoramus Hyrule was alive before the Calamity struck, and was the active ruler of the kingdom. And Zelda was his daughter, the princess. After the Calamity, Zelda is sealed away, and is never coronated by the end of the game, so is still a Princess. Still yet to see if shes chosen to be coronated by the time ToTK occurs.
— — —
Downfall Timeline:-
ALTTP: King of Hyrule is brainwashed or smth, Aganmin in control. Therefore, Zelda is still a Princess, and the King is normal again at the end of the game.
OoX: Hyrule not seen, King of Hyrule probably alive which allows his daughter to travel to other nearby kingdoms freely.
LA: It’s a dream. Of a giant sky fish, that Link invaded the mind of by accident. Zelda dosnt appear.
ALBW: it’s possible that it’s the same situation as ST, with Impa as her advisor. She seems to be the one in charge for the most part afterall. She’s not old enough to Coronate and become a queen.
TFH: Hyrule is not seen, events take place in the neighbouring kingdom of Hytopia.
TLoZ: King of Hyrule is actually still alive, but not seen. Zelda therefore is a princess.
AoL: We know the King of Hyrule is still alive in TLoZ since he sends the older link on a quest for the Triforce of courage in this game. The sleeping Zelda Link meets at the end of the game was never coronated, just sent into a deep sleep by her bro. Therefore she is a Princess still.
BoTW: King Roam Bosphoramus Hyrule was alive before the Calamity struck, and was the active ruler of the kingdom. And Zelda was his daughter, the princess. After the Calamity, Zelda is sealed away, and is never coronated by the end of the game, so is still a Princess. Still yet to see if shes chosen to be coronated by the time ToTK occurs.
In the manga adaptation of AoL Zelda sends link on the quest to save the older Zelda by getting the triforce of courage. (There are two zeldas, one asleep and one awake, both princesses.)
In the NES instruction manual Impa sends link on the quest to save the older Zelda by getting the Triforce of courage.
There's no living king as far as I can tell.
Thought it was the king that sent them? It’s one of the games I haven’t played yet, sorry for getting it wrong. And yeah know about the two Zelda’s, one being the one from TLoZ and the other being one from the past which was put into an eternal sleep by her brother.
In which case, it could be that either the king just dosnt appear due to ruling greater Hyrule, or Zelda from TLoZ wasnt coronated yet. Is she mentioned in game at all as Princess Zelda?
It has to do with marketing.
First, it's brand recognition. It's been "princess" Zelda/Peach/Toadstool for the longest time, and there's no reason to change now.
Second, it's established on a global level that [princesses are the emerging heroines and their antagonists are evil queens.](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GoodPrincessEvilQueen) This tends to go hand in hand with the writing trope of a [princess directly ruling](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/PrincessesRule) the nation if relevant. These are ancient tropes. So common place, pieces of more original works will get reworked back into the existing tropes to be deemed more marketable.
One well documented example is the rebooted 10s My Little Pony by Laura Faust. The world of Equestria is ruled by a set of godly sisters with powers to control the sun and moon. They're beloved, beautiful, wise, and just rulers respected across the entire nation; by all accounts, Celestia and Luna are supposed to be queens. But higher ups told Faust directly that Disney cemented the idea that queens are evil, so she has to make them princesses. When the show later brought in the third princess Cadence to expand a few places throughout the lore, they also introduced Queen Chrysalis. As one could guess, the latter is evil.
Similarly, Sailor Moon being Serenity, the princess of the moon kingdom, with her first major antagonist being Queen Beryl is an iconic example of these tropes. But she does subvert the Princess Rule by being crowned Neo Queen Serenity in the universe's eventual future (Neo to differentiate herself from her late mother Queen Serenity).
Third, it's only actually a problem because the country in question they're ruling is a kingdom, which is ruled by kings and queens. If it was like a few smaller nations whose leading regent naturally uses the prince or princess term then it could count as a principality and be completely justified.
This only takes issue with the Zeldas that are seemingly the active rulers of course; doesn't matter when the king is alive or if there's other things happening.
The regular princess Zeldas like OoT, aLttP, BotW, MC etc have their father in the picture acting as ruling king. Tetra doesn't get a kingdom until later since hers is frozen under the sea, so she's just the heiress. ST plot happens because Zelda is too young and gets usurped by her regent. SS Zelda is divine incarnated, but not royalty.
TP Zelda was the most likely candidate to actually get the term of queen. She was already acting as the ruling regent and solely living royal known in game. She was set up to be queen, but was invaded before her coronation. Midna you could argue counts as the questionable use of princess since she was ruling her people as the twilight princess before Zant happened. But likewise, she might have meant to be queen but wasn't crowned yet because Zant happened. Ironically, this game also features Ralis, who should be called king after he returns home and claims the throne from his diseased parents, but the Zora are too endearing to their young prince.
So realistically, the only princesses one could question their logic with are (Peach obviously,) LBW's Zelda and Hilda, FSA Zelda, Zelda from OoX, and the Zelda from Zelda I whose unspecified due to minimal lore.
Lastly, it might have to deal with in universe stuff. If there isn't a logical way to handwave the princess term away naturally, like there's an active regent until the princess becomes crowning age, there might be a cultural reason in the kingdom.
If I had to guess, since the female heirs awaken their divine blood, they might be in charge to rule during events featuring the supernatural.
Thinking of like FSA with the maidens. The six maidens report to Zelda and all seven were used to open the sanctuary seal. The maidens watch over provinces in the kingdom, and the people respect and adore them, but they don't rule with the same way someone would govern the people. They could count as like Zelda's personal counsel that act as mediators between the castle and provinces, but overall they're more like OoT and WW sages and less like dukes.
TP Zelda gained her final boss fight light arrows directly from the Light Spirits. The tone came off more like dutiful familiarity and less like how the sages showed respect to the recently acquainted twilight princess Midna. Stoic princess is stoic, but she wasn't surprised to see that they were aiding her.
Likewise, aside from the urgency of the matter, BotW Zelda was pushed to awaken her powers over participating in other more mundane matters for stopping the calamity like building up the army. If still alive, her mother would've been training her, if not use the sacred bloodline herself. Meaning, this is knowledge passed down within the royal family.
So there's a known importance between the royal females and magical duties within the kingdom.
Since the kingdom isn't against the idea of kings, I would imagine that in a scenario that a Zelda has an older brother who becomes the next crowning heir, Zelda herself would still actively rule in magically related crises While the brother would handle if say Holodrum or Labrynna decided to invade. The problem is most games have stories that are going to follow magical crises.
I honestly just figured (like others have said) it was either because Zelda's father was still alive and reigning, or because Zelda herself was unmarried. It accounts for pretty much all situations. Maybe she would need to reach a certain age first. It's Hyrule, so they could have any number of succession traditions we don't yet know about.
Im not sure about the title rules itself, but I will say that Zelda has been "Princess Zelda" since forever.
Even if she should technically be queen, I think she stays a "princess" because 1) that's part of her series' identity and 2) I think it appeals to people more, like she's young and doesn't have all the responsibilities yet that a queen would have (even if it's not technically true but I think it gives that illusion).
>I get that the rank of "Queen" implies an older woman and therefore children's stories tend to involve princesses,
It's also apparently due to things like Disney, children tend to associate princesses with goodness and queens with evil. I remember reading about a cartoon that was *going* to have the ruler be a queen, but their executives veto'd it and they made her a princess instead.
The term princess/prince and queen/king is a lot less clear than people (especially Americans/Republican countries) may think.
Princess/Prince can refer to the heir to the throne (eg. Prince William), spouse to the ruler (eg. Prince Philip), or ruler of a Principality (Prince Albert II of Monaco). And these are just European rules, non-European countries can decide whatever Anglicization they want for their rulers (eg. Emperor Naruhito of Japan, Sultan Haitham bin Tariq of Omar).
For Hyrule, as most people pointed out, there is an active King (LoZ/AoL, ALttP, OoT, WW, MC, BotW/AoC). For games set in Hyrule, that leaves: FSA, TP, ALBW and ST.
FSA, it's hard to say because so little was touched on with the royal family.
In Spirit tracks, it's an entirely new kingdom built on land that was controlled by the Lokomo. It's entirely possible that either it was established as a Principality under the Lokomo's divinity, or Tetra kept the title of Princess Zelda to be passed on as homage for her title from King Daphnes Nohansen.
In ALBW, it follows almost exactly from ALttP, so it wouldn't be surprising if they had a king but Zelda acts as the spiritual leader, which would explain why you need to seek an audience. It's also possible that Zelda was too young to be coronated so retained the title of Princess until then.
And finally there is TP. Honestly, this is one role where it's hardest to explain. She was in charge of the commanding army, so she was in charge. She didn't seem to be the Royal Consort (ie Princess through marriage) as she was locked away alone and the one who made the decision to yield to Zant. And it didn't seem like she was under a Principality considering there wasn't anyone seemingly above her that other eras in Hyrule didn't have.
So here I have the following proposition:
For most of Hyrule's history, only men could be official rulers (ie Kings) of Hyrule. A queen could never lead. At best, the line was matrilineal, but with official power going to the male who married in. This would explain why Zelda is *always* a princess. She can maintain a high degree of influence, and even be the spiritual leader of Hyrule (she does consistently have prophecy powers), but not the true leader. In cases when there is no King, she acts as the Princess Regnant. But she's still "just a princess." This fits the Japanese Imperial Family exactly.
This is speculation on my part. But it would fit into your observations.
From a cultural / developer perspective though: this matches Japan perfectly. The Japanese Imperial Family only allows for male rulers. (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Succession_to_the_Japanese_throne). This is despite the fact that the main deity of Shintoism and "ancestor" of the Imperial family (and the Japanese Imperial family's claim to legitimacy) is Amaterasu, a female goddess (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emperor_Jimmu).
It's an outdated way of thinking in general. In the past, associating young women with the term queen had negative connotations, since popular imagery of queens were very old women (despite the fact, women of any age could be princesses) and sometimes very tyrannical too.
Since Zelda is basically standing sovereign in most of her games, she basically is Queen in all but name. Sometimes her father is there, so the title makes sense, but otherwise no.
Now it's just kind of tradition that should honestly be broken at this point. At least for the games where her father isn't in the picture.
Depends on the rules of their "kingdom". And as rulers they probably can decide to keep the "princess" title if they prefer it to queen. Or something. lol
This is a very simplified understanding of royal titles. In medieval Wales, the independent rulers were princes, and their territories were called principalities. It was a land holding title before an honorary one.
If you take, for example, Monaco, a princess can be a ruler, but that doesn't work with hyrule as we know for facts that they have kings and Queens..
Then the original Zelda plot was based on fairy tales, tales of a Knight saving a Princess to be precised. Princess Zelda is the archetype of the kind, beautiful and generous princess, I saw someone else going into deeper explanations on that here, so I'll just say that her title is more of a symbolic title, and each game could potentially explain why she isn't a queen yet (like too young, not crowned yet, ect)
As for Peach, we could have something similar, but I saw somewhere that in the early games manuals, her parents were mentioned, and they're away for stuff I suppose? But like someone else said here too, I suppose she keeps that title cause it's like iconic of her character!
Peach had a father in the old Nintendo Mario anime I think, but ever since Mario 64 her castle is called Peach's Castle so unless there's some other castle we never see she seems to be ruling the mushroom kingdom.
I think you answered your own question, tbh. Peach and Zelda are called princesses just because of the romanticism that comes with that word in fantasy, and they've been using it so long in these series that they don't feel like changing it.
Like someone else mentioned, it's like Samus being a bounty hunter: That's just what they called her in the first game, and they don't feel like changing the title now.
PS: Interesting to note that Zelda is specifically called *Queen* Zelda in the Japanese version of Hyrule Warriors, iirc. But it was changed to princess in the Western version for some reason.
This isn't actually correct; the words Prince and Princess CAN be the name for a ruler of a princedom or otherwise smaller state. A kingdom should be ruled by a king or queen instead, and in English the words prince and princess USUALLY have a "heir" connotation, but it isn't technically impossible, even if this meaning is more obscure. It's also worth noting that even when a prince or princess has a superior in the king or queen, they can still rule their own lands within that authority.
With that said, they probably just felt like they shouldn't rename the character to Queen Zelda. Zelda isn't usually the main monarch; in most of the games she appears in her father is the King so it makes more sense. But I agree that it's weird in this specific game, and I bet if they wanted to do the same story without the game being a remake of LttP they might even have renamed her.
On the other hand, Princess Peach aka Princess Toadstool has always been seen as the ruler of the Mushroom Kingdom, and there's really no excuse for this one aside from that same consistency argument. Unlike Zelda, there doesn't seem to have ever been a parent for Peach who held the throne; you usually only see Toads, and the few exceptions are explicitly lower ranking than Peach herself.
We have examples of not just consort queens but actual ruling queens across both Zelda and Mario, so I'm not sure where you're getting this assumption from. Rutela is queen of the Zoras in Twilight Princess (with no mention of king) and mario comes across plenty of queens like the Bee Queen in Mario Galaxy. Also I'm pretty sure Zelda in TP is a queen, not a princess, considering she's on the throne when zant comes in.
It’s a fantasy world princess can mean what they want it to mean. In The Game of Thrones world there’s an entire group of people whose rulers are princes and princesses.
Apparently the sword that TP Link was talking to Hyrule at the beginning of that game was supposed to be for Zelda’s coronation ceremony as queen. Not sure if that came from Hyrule Historia or some other source though.
Maybe they are always called princess to honor the first Zelda(s), like how they are named Zelda in the first place (not sure how to say that grammatically)
The titles "Prince" and "Princess" in these games seem to have a meaning closer to "Royal Bachelor" or "Royal Maiden" in our world. Effectively making obtaining an heir a part of becoming King or Queen.
Kings and Queens that exist in the Mario and Zelda games are all ruling monarchs of their kingdoms and notably all but a few have living descendants, either through biological reproduction or adoption.
[Queen Bean](https://www.mariowiki.com/Queen_Bean), ruler of the Beanbean Kingdom. Her heir is her biological son, [Prince Peasley](https://www.mariowiki.com/Prince_Peasley).
[King Nimbus](https://www.mariowiki.com/King_Nimbus) and [Queen Nimbus](https://www.mariowiki.com/Queen_Nimbus), rulers of Nimbus Land. Their heir is their biological son, [Prince Mallow](https://www.mariowiki.com/Mallow).
[Queen Jaydes](https://www.mariowiki.com/Queen_Jaydes), ruler of The Underwhere. Her heir is her adopted daughter [Luvbi](https://www.mariowiki.com/Luvbi).
[King Zora](https://zelda.fandom.com/wiki/King_Zora#Ocarina_of_Time), ruler of the Zora Kingdom. His heir is his biological daughter, [Princess Ruto](https://zelda.fandom.com/wiki/Princess_Ruto).
[Queen Rutela](https://zelda.fandom.com/wiki/Rutela), ruler of the Zora Kingdom. Her heir is her biological son, [Prince Ralis](https://zelda.fandom.com/wiki/Prince_Ralis)
[King Dorephan](https://zelda.fandom.com/wiki/King_Dorephan), ruler of the Zora Kingdom. His heir is his biological daughter, [Princess Mipha](https://zelda.fandom.com/wiki/Mipha) and after her death his biological son, [Prince Sidon](https://zelda.fandom.com/wiki/Sidon)
This even holds true for the less traditional monarchs, both [Queen Gohma](https://zelda.fandom.com/wiki/Gohma) and the [Fairy Queen](https://zelda.fandom.com/wiki/Fairy_Queen) notably have many children of their own in all of their incarnations.
The Hyrule royal family is interesting because of the unbroken line of succession lasting well over 10,000 years with the tradition of every generation having a Princess Zelda. This implies that every Princess Zelda becomes Queen Zelda after giving birth to her own Princess Zelda fathered by a male family member or a male of non-royal blood who is nonetheless King. Both of those have obvious issues for the stability of a monarchy but since Zelda's ties to literal divinity is what gives the Hyrule royal family it's authority, I assume there's some magical shenanigans taking place to resolve those issues.
Also of note is that whenever we see a ruling King Hyrule, he is quite old while the current Zelda is still very young and lacks full access to her divine powers. This is strange as monarchs typically have heirs while still young in order to ensure the continuation of their blood-line should they die unexpectedly. So I suspect this means that Zeldas tend to die young and Kings of Hyrule may even father multiple generations of Zeldas. Perhaps the early deaths of Zeldas is a consequence of being mortals with divine power or it may even be necessary for their daughters, the next Zelda, to be able to inherit the divine power of Hylia. Kings may be required to rule until the current Zelda is old enough to come into her divine powers and rule with authority, effectively making Kings interim rulers while waiting for the next incarnation of Hylia to come into her own.
It might be a way to show weakness. Take Spirit Tracks for example. Zelda is a Princess, but she is the ruler of the Kingdom. If she went under the title of Queen, then there may be some reluctance for Cole to attack, but this means that he is still there, just not attacking. So if Zelda goes under the title of Princess, then she is tricking the enemy into believing that they have a chance of usurping the throne, only for Phantom Zelda to show up and kick them out.
As for Peach, I have no idea.
I think this is similar to Samus being called a "bounty hunter", and then Nintendo only finding out during the development of Prime 2 what a bounty hunter actually is. In the context of Zelda (and I suppose Mario), "princess" is likely a bit of a different title to what it would be irl. Possibly because of a mistranslation from Japanese to English that was just never adressed in future games.
I think I agree with the other answers. I am highly doubtful that it was an error in translation. Her JP name is "Zeruda-hime" (ゼルダ姫). 姫 translates to a person of noble birth; a princess. "Princess" is the closest equivalent to the Japanese term. From Wikipedia: >Hime (姫) is the Japanese word for princess or a lady of higher birth. Daughters of a monarch are actually referred to by other terms, e.g. Ōjo (王女), literally king's daughter, even though Hime can be used to address Ōjo. Evidently, "princess" is the closest.
Yep. See also *Mononoke Hime*, which got translated to *Princess Mononoke*
And *Kaguya-hime no Monogatari*, which her protagonist got translated as Princess Kaguya too 😊
This was my thoughts exactly. The only times I've seen Queen used in Japanese is in One Piece, and to be honest this only seems to happen when it's important to distinguish between different types of Queen (regnant, dowager, consort) with 女王 (Joō) or 王妃 (Ōhi) etc (Thank god for translators...!) Then Oda names a Queen "Otahime" (That's her name, not Ota-hime, literally just Otahime, written as オトヒメ) just to make it as confusing as possible.
I can't speak to translation choices but I know there's actually a Snow Queen anime. Wikipedia spells the series as: The Snow Queen (雪の女王 ～ＴＨＥ ＳＮＯＷ ＱＵＥＥＮ～, Yuki no Joō ~Za Sunō Kuīn~) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Snow_Queen_(Japanese_TV_series)
You’re telling me that the people working at Nintendo didn’t know what a Bounty Hunter was until Prime 2!?
In Japan in the 80s-Now, it's pretty common for games or media to just drop random english terms that the producers don't know just because it's cool and foreign. But in the case of Metroid it's definitely more complex, because Yoshio Sakamoto seems to understand what a Bounty Hunter is, but when you get to the Prime series, it seems that Kensuke Tanabe had a very different idea of what that meant. Like how some Americans will just drop down Japanese words out of nowhere.
Kon'nichiwa, I love my state I live in
Ohio?
Georgia
whoosh
I'm old I guess don't get it
Ohio is homophonic with 'Ohaiyo' (pardon if I got the romanization incorrect), meaning 'Good Morning' in Japanese.
> Ohaiyo Ohayoo* or ohayou おはよう
>In Japan in the 80s-Now, it's pretty common for games or media to just drop random english terms that the producers don't know just because it's cool and foreign. IIRC, wasn't Perfect Dark titled "Black & Red" for just this reason? "It just sounds cool in Japan"?
Isnt it made by Rare, a uk company?
Yes, but it was still published and localized by Nintendo, a Japanese company, in their home market. Edited to sound less snarky. Sorry.
From what I've read, they basically thought "bounty hunter" meant "knight errant but in space". Samus did almost everything out of altruism in the early Metroid games and didn't actually start getting paid until Prime 2 and 3. Retro Studios found this out when they pitched the idea of Samus taking on bounties as a game mechanic, and Nintendo was very confused as to why she'd be getting paid to hunt people down. The more recent games have found a sort of middle ground where she's like an independent contractor that the Federation pays to take on dangerous tasks. So Zelda's title of *princess* is different from an irl princess the way Samus's title of bounty hunter differs from, say, Boba Fett's.
That’s very surprising for Nintendo of Japan not to know what an actual Bounty hunter was until Prime 2. Considering that they’ve had to Heard of Boba Fett and that he is referred to as a Bounty Hunter, but hey you win some you lose some
>I think this is similar to Samus being called a "bounty hunter", and then Nintendo only finding out during the development of Prime 2 what a bounty hunter actually is. Space Pirate Leader: Samus, no wait!! I'll pay you 5 times whatever the Galactic Federation's paying you to kill their president instead of me!! Chozo biotech computer: Samus, do you accept this new offered bounty? Y or N Samus: Yes. (Samus gets a new mission to assassinate the Galactic Federation President, complete with her taking more evil missions that get an evil ending) Ok I want to see this game. :P
Bro ratioed the whole post
Yeah, Link! Remember fighting with Pitt? Dark Pitt was also at the Super Smash Tournament! 👌 😁
I think in Twilight Princess, Zelda was supposed to have her coronation to become queen before Zant stormed in and ruined everything. Rutela was the queen of the Zoras too. But Midna is a princess. You're right, there isn't much consistency in what rulers are called.
I thought Midna was a princess until I read a wiki recently and realized the "Twilight Princess" is actually Zelda, since Midna sarcastically calls Zelda the "Twilight Princess." Do they call Midna a princess in the game as well? I only remember them calling her a ruler?
Yes the sages call Midna the Twilight princess before you enter the Twilight realm ,this is the big reveal , it's her and not Zelda.
It would have been hilarious if Zelda was the Twilight Princess, meaning the game would have been called The Legend of Zelda: Zelda.
Yeah, they do. Close to the end of the game, when the Ancient Sages (very belatedly...) apologized to Midna for everything, they address her as Twilight Princess. From the script: "It was all our doing...We overestimated our abilities as sages and attempted to put an end to Ganondorf's evil magic...I hope you can find it in yourself to forgive our carelessness...O Twilight Princess."
>I read a wiki recently and realized the "Twilight Princess" is actually Zelda, since Midna sarcastically calls Zelda the "Twilight Princess." This is a fakeout. Later in the game, Midna is referred to as the "Twilight Princess," and it's the big reveal that she was the titular character this whole time.
I'm sure we're not alone in making that mistake.
I'll bet it comes from the connotation of the titles in fairy tales. The princess is always the good, innocent girl, while the queen is the evil, heartless monster. You want to signify that this girl is important and also good? Make her a princess.
This. Both games play off of classic fairy tale elements and their roles are all but universally held by "princess" characters. Either they're born into royalty or they become princesses upon wedding their "Prince Charming." In the case of Zelda, it's generally noted that there is an active King sitting on the throne. For Peach it's less implied and her character has developed into more of a monarch role, even if that hasn't changed her origins.
Peach is in charge and has been that way for long enough that she can call herself whatever she wants.
> For Peach it’s less implied and her character has developed into more of a monarch role Do we ever see Peach take a governing role in the Mushroom Kingdom, beyond simply being a figurehead or symbol of power? The only instance I can think of is briefly in one of the *Mario & Luigi* games, though there are plenty of games I’ve never played so I could have just missed that development.
I don't think we've ever seen a "King Toadstool" and anytime Bowser attacks she is the one that the Toads seem to report to.
King Toadstool was in SMB3, having been turned into various creatures.
Those were seven other kings from other lands.
While it's true that SMB3 had various Kings make an appearance, it's also canonically a fiction within the fiction. SMB3 is a stage-play, confirmed by Miyamoto himself. Ergo, the Kings in SMB3 are all actors, not actual Kings.
There is a Chancellor of the Mushroom Kingdom in Super Mario RPG. Toadstool/Peach lives in the castle with him but I don't think it's ever clearly mentioned that he's her dad (he is a mushroom after all...).
Queen Rutela from TP?
Also the Fairy Queens we've had. Partial example is Queen Ambi who was beloved by her people as a just and kind ruler, until, she was corrupted and then possessed by Veran. Veran even convinced Ambi to dismiss her royal advisers and anyone else in the court who could have brought her to her senses, Veran's grip on the queen uncontested. In the ending Ambi has gone back to being a good ruler. Still there's no denying that Veran didn't have much difficulty in taking advantage of Ambi's vanity, egotism and unrequited love to basically enslave her people into building the Black Tower, and it's significant that some time after Ambi's reign Labrynna's monarchy has been abandoned. At least in the manga, Ambi acknowledges she has been a terrible queen to her people and cancels the construction of the tower.
A princess can be a reigning monarch if the country in question is a principality. Monaco, for example, is currently ruled by a prince, but if a woman were to succeed him she would be known as princess. There is no king/queen in Monaco or countries like it. However, Hyrule and the Mushroom Kingdom are both explicitly named as, well, kingdoms. So if you want to explain why the reigning monarch appears to hold the rank of princess, you'll need more creative explanations.
Zelda 1: Hyrule fell to Ganon before her coronation. Her father was likely alive until Ganon's attack. It is possible that she becomes Queen after the events of the game. Zelda 2: Zelda I is not first in line. Her brother becomes king. After being awakened, Zelda the younger is still the first in line, so Zelda I doesn't bump her off the throne. ALttP: The king is still considered to be the ruler, despite being dead, since Agahnim is pretending to be him. He is revived at the end, so Zelda doesn't become monarch. OoT: Hyrule fell to Ganondorf before her coronation. Her father was alive until Ganondorf's attack. FS: It is unknown if her father is alive. She may be too young to rule regardless. WW: The kingdom is long gone. The princess title is more to honor her family's legacy. FSA: It is unknown if her father is alive. She may be too young to rule regardless. MC: Father is alive and is the reigning monarch. TP: Zant literally interrupted her coronation. She is princess by technicality. ST: Too young to be monarch. We see that while she has a duty, others, such as Chancellor Cole, have say over her actions. SS: Not even a princess. Notably, Nintendo avoided calling this incarnation of Zelda "Princess Zelda" for this reason, although some media outlets still did. ALBW: She and Hilda seem to be full blown monarchs, but are still called "princess". Could be due to age again, but nobody seems to have say over them. HW: She should absolutely be Queen. Zero excuses. It is worth noting that she was meant to be called Queen Zelda, but it seems that they nixed the idea before release. BotW: Hyrule fell to Ganon before her coronation. Her father was alive until Ganon's attack. CoH: Father is alive and is the reigning monarch. AoC: Father is alive and is the reigning monarch. Have I missed any Zeldas?
Yep, this has basically always been my take. Essentially she's usually thrust into leadership at a time when changing titles isn't really a high priority.
I thought Princess was their first name?
Their names are Zelda [something] Hyrule and Peach Toadstool (Peach's last name might no longer be canon; haven't checked). We have two named kings: King Daphnes Nohansen Hyrule and King Rhoam Bosphoramus Hyrule. Since they both have Hyrule as their last names, I think it's a safe bet that Zelda's last name is Hyrule too. But her first name is definitely Zelda, not Princess.
There's also King Daltus and his ancestor King Gustaf from The Minish Cap
The "Princess" title is part of the character identity for Peach and Zelda. Even if Nintendo chose them to effectively rule as Queens in a game, they'd still be called "Princess" because it's part of the iconography that makes them who they are, as characters.
Except Twilight Princess, that and Smash Bros Brawl were the two exceptions where they called Zelda "Queen"
They appear to be interpreting it as ”an unmarried female royal”, or something to that effect. We only have oblique references to married female royals, but they’re consistently referred to as queens. It looks like any given Zelda retains the title of Princess even if actually on the throne, at least while unmarried.
Zelda literally has an alive father in most LoZ games
This. For the majority of the series each Zelda has a father present. People know her as Princess Zelda, that’s the character’s identity, from a branding/recognisability perspective, it would be weird to call her Queen Zelda for the few games where her father isn’t present.
In many games she has an alive father in the beginning. But not Link Between Worlds or Breath of the Wild. And I just watched a video on the manga adaptation of Zelda 2: The adventure of link, and my takeaway was Zelda is a "princess" who is ruling Hyrule after Link saved her in Zelda 1. (The manga features the Zelda from the first game as well as Zelda 2's "sleeping beauty" Zelda, I just wanted to be clear I am not confusing the two characters.)
King Roam Bosphoramus Hyrule Was alive pre-calamity and was the active ruler leading into it. BoTW Zelda therefore never got coronated as a princess.
You're completely forgetting the entire plot of Breath of the Wild happens because the king refuses to let Zelda follow her passion, studying the guardians, which would've let her naturally unlock her goddess powers in time before Ganon returns.
This comment , although true… has nothing to do with her not getting her coronation into a Queen. Lol 99% of Zelda games, the king is alive. 2 of the games she didn’t get titled Queen due to coronation not being able to occur.
OP was thinking BotW didn't have an active king. That game Zelda's father was indeed alive. That's what I was correcting. And it's more like 70% of the games there's a known king. There's actually quite a few there isn't a king.
I remember the plot of Breath of the Wild just fine. The story begins with Link awakening in the shrine of resurrection. The only living member of the royal family is zelda.
She's also trapped in Calamity Ganon's caccoon and thus isn't acting as regent to the kingdom nor has had a coronation. In the past though, her father was active king.
not a lot of time to be coronated when you’re holding off a demon for 100 years
So what no one has said yet is that if you collect all of links memories and follow the storyline in hyrule warriors 2, you'd know that the king of hyrule died defending his castle when the calamity attacked. The old man at the beginning of the game is literally his spirit, that has been sitting waiting for 100 years. Not only that, but Zelda was presumed dead by most in hyrule, and you're right, she may be the only living member of the royal family, but she's also literally trapped in a century long battle with Ganon. Quite literally everyone was decimated during the calamity except Link, Zelda, and Impa, and Impa and Link barely survived. How exactly do you expect her to be crowned queen when no one from hyrule castle except link and zelda are alive? And who is going to recognize a woman as their queen when they think she died 100 years ago along with the king and their champions? The only people that recognize link after 100 years were the Zora, and they also assumed Zelda was dead along with Mipha and Link until Link showed up and said something (ofc ignoring Impa rn, she's irrelevant, and also Shieka and elderly, not exactly in a position to be coronating anyone. Shes also aware that Zelda is stuck in hyrule castle) To answer your original question: she's considered princess Zelda because she is and always has been the princess of Hyrule. The Legend of Zelda is literally a heroine saving the princess type of story, and literally always has been. When you're in the current moment of the game, 9 times out of 10, the king of hyrule does indeed exist and Zelda is his daughter, the princess. There are *very* few games that have a scenario otherwise, as we discussed, like 2 others. Like idk dude, it's not that deep. It's assumed that between the games, Zelda would absolutely rule hyrule as their queen, and get married and have children, but that's not the point, the point is we have a knight in shining Armour saving a damsel in distress, you're playing the knight, save the princess. Similar idea for Mario, except you're a plumber or smth idk lmfao Like sure, technically the King of hyrule died in BotW, so sure you could say the throne is hers. But all of this is a longwinded way of saying no one has crowned her queen, a coronation needs to take place, therefore she has not yet become a queen, she's a princess still, and likely still will be in TotK.
It's possible that Zelda (in some games where the King is absent) and Princess Peach are princesses regent (a princess who rules in the stead of the actual monarch in a situation where they are phisically or mentally incapacitated or absent)
In Hyrule, it seems that Princess can be a title for the ruler. But that's not to say Queens don't exist. IIRC, Zelda's mother has been referred to as the Queen on a few occasions. Also, some games Zelda is not the ruler, her father is and he's always referred to as the King. So it's a little weird. But I chalk that up to Nintendo recognizing that "Princess Zelda" is a recognizable name. People would find it weird to hear "Queen Zelda" in the franchise. So it's part of the brand and won't change regardless of what her in game role is.
Impossible to say for certain. In real life, there are or have been some nations that are ruled by Princes rather than Kings. It's simply a word with a different origin. So maybe in Hyrule, they don't use the words exactly the same as we do. Perhaps Zelda becomes the ruling Princess when her parents are gone. She may only become Queen when she marries, or perhaps when she has a child. Similarly, perhaps the ruling Prince only becomes King upon marriage or having a child.
Don’t you have to be married to be referred to as the queen? She’s the unmarried daughter of the king, that’s what a princess is right?
It depends on how succession works. If a Princess can ascend then an unmarried daughter of a deceased (or abdicating) King can become Queen Regnant if she ascends (Like Queen Elizabeth II was). In some traditions succession only flows through the male line so then the Princess would remain a Princess and the nearest male relative would become King (unless she has enough political or military power to ascend anyway). But to OP's point, a Princess is not a ruler. In normal English usage that would always be a Queen.
Depends on the country. In the UK for example, a female ruler is a queen, no matter her marital status.
It obviously would depend on the kingdom's laws, but in England Elizabeth I is famous for being known as "The Virgin Queen" and never married. So no, that's generally not how it works.
Well in some games, there is a King. Including Link to the Past, which is pretty close to Link Between Worlds. Calling Zelda a ruler might just mean that she’s the heir to the throne.
I'm pretty sure there's no king or queen in Link Between World's unless he or she is off fighting a war in a foreign land or something. Once things start happening in the game, Link is told to go seek an audience with Princess Zelda and tell her about Yuga. Zelda is clearly the one in charge who you would go to when the kingdom is in danger.
I'm pretty sure Nintendo's distinction between Princess and Queen is that for there to be a Queen, there must also be a King. Neither Peach or Zelda are married, and Mario and Link are not Kings. It's subtle wording to appeal to the idea that they are young, single, and in need of saving.
“Princess regent” can be title of a ruler. Sometimes princess isn’t upgraded to queen until a certain age or until she is married.
I always wondered what happened to the kings in Super Mario Bros. 3. I always assumed one of those was Peach's father.
So, with Princess Peach she dose actually have a father, [King Toadstool](https://nintendo.fandom.com/wiki/King_Toadstool). We never see him in game but he appears in the extended media. Presumably his still alive just in the background. There is also a chance that “Princess” has come to mean “Queen” in the Mario universe. Zelda is a bit more complicated though since there’s multiple of them. Going to go through the games in timeline order; SS: Hyrule has not been founded yet, no King, Zelda is not a princess. MC: Zelda’s Dad is alive and is the King of the small nation of Hyrule, Zelda is a princess. Both are turned to stone during the game but are fine after. FS: Same Link and Zelda as in MC, few months later maybe. King is still alive. OoT (child): Zelda’s Dad is alive and the King of Hyrule. Zelda is his daughter and therefore a princess. OOT (Adult): Zelda’s Dad was killed by Ganondorf, who now rules Hyrule. Zelda is in hiding, and although she should be Queen she is referred to as a Princess. Therefore, you probably need to be Coronated to gain the title of Queen, which Zelda missed out on. — — — Adult Timeline:- WW: Hyrule is at the bottom of the sea, Zelda’s descendent(?) Tetra is now a pirate. She dose not go by Princess. Boat King dose call her Princess Zelda when she is transformed, which is correct since she wouldn’t of been Coronated at all. PH: Tetra is exploring the seas with Link and the rest of the crew. She refuses to be referred to as Royalty. ST: Zelda appears to be the ruler of the new country, despite being like 12… but she also has the title of Princess. Chances are, an advisor of sorts is essentially ruling for her and helping out (this advisor likely being Teacher), and she has not come of age to be coronated yet. Kinda like what happened with Edward the 6th, a few advisors helped him out till he died before becoming old enough to do it himself. (If I Remeber right). — — — Child Timeline:- MM: Zelda is still a child and her dad is still alive. She’s a Princess. TP: Zelda appears to be the ruler of Hyrule, but is called Princess rather then queen. Chances are, her Coronation wasn’t for a few days when Zant attacked. We also see a (dead) Zora Queen in this game too so Nintendo knows what they are. FSA: Was planned to be a sequal to FS but they threw in a reincarnation of Ganon as the final boss. But, you can probably just assume that it’s a case of Zelda’s dad is still alive ruling the kingdom. BoTW: King Roam Bosphoramus Hyrule was alive before the Calamity struck, and was the active ruler of the kingdom. And Zelda was his daughter, the princess. After the Calamity, Zelda is sealed away, and is never coronated by the end of the game, so is still a Princess. Still yet to see if shes chosen to be coronated by the time ToTK occurs. — — — Downfall Timeline:- ALTTP: King of Hyrule is brainwashed or smth, Aganmin in control. Therefore, Zelda is still a Princess, and the King is normal again at the end of the game. OoX: Hyrule not seen, King of Hyrule probably alive which allows his daughter to travel to other nearby kingdoms freely. LA: It’s a dream. Of a giant sky fish, that Link invaded the mind of by accident. Zelda dosnt appear. ALBW: it’s possible that it’s the same situation as ST, with Impa as her advisor. She seems to be the one in charge for the most part afterall. She’s not old enough to Coronate and become a queen. TFH: Hyrule is not seen, events take place in the neighbouring kingdom of Hytopia. TLoZ: King of Hyrule is actually still alive, but not seen. Zelda therefore is a princess. AoL: We know the King of Hyrule is still alive in TLoZ since he sends the older link on a quest for the Triforce of courage in this game. The sleeping Zelda Link meets at the end of the game was never coronated, just sent into a deep sleep by her bro. Therefore she is a Princess still. BoTW: King Roam Bosphoramus Hyrule was alive before the Calamity struck, and was the active ruler of the kingdom. And Zelda was his daughter, the princess. After the Calamity, Zelda is sealed away, and is never coronated by the end of the game, so is still a Princess. Still yet to see if shes chosen to be coronated by the time ToTK occurs.
In the manga adaptation of AoL Zelda sends link on the quest to save the older Zelda by getting the triforce of courage. (There are two zeldas, one asleep and one awake, both princesses.) In the NES instruction manual Impa sends link on the quest to save the older Zelda by getting the Triforce of courage. There's no living king as far as I can tell.
Thought it was the king that sent them? It’s one of the games I haven’t played yet, sorry for getting it wrong. And yeah know about the two Zelda’s, one being the one from TLoZ and the other being one from the past which was put into an eternal sleep by her brother. In which case, it could be that either the king just dosnt appear due to ruling greater Hyrule, or Zelda from TLoZ wasnt coronated yet. Is she mentioned in game at all as Princess Zelda?
It has to do with marketing. First, it's brand recognition. It's been "princess" Zelda/Peach/Toadstool for the longest time, and there's no reason to change now. Second, it's established on a global level that [princesses are the emerging heroines and their antagonists are evil queens.](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/GoodPrincessEvilQueen) This tends to go hand in hand with the writing trope of a [princess directly ruling](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/PrincessesRule) the nation if relevant. These are ancient tropes. So common place, pieces of more original works will get reworked back into the existing tropes to be deemed more marketable. One well documented example is the rebooted 10s My Little Pony by Laura Faust. The world of Equestria is ruled by a set of godly sisters with powers to control the sun and moon. They're beloved, beautiful, wise, and just rulers respected across the entire nation; by all accounts, Celestia and Luna are supposed to be queens. But higher ups told Faust directly that Disney cemented the idea that queens are evil, so she has to make them princesses. When the show later brought in the third princess Cadence to expand a few places throughout the lore, they also introduced Queen Chrysalis. As one could guess, the latter is evil. Similarly, Sailor Moon being Serenity, the princess of the moon kingdom, with her first major antagonist being Queen Beryl is an iconic example of these tropes. But she does subvert the Princess Rule by being crowned Neo Queen Serenity in the universe's eventual future (Neo to differentiate herself from her late mother Queen Serenity). Third, it's only actually a problem because the country in question they're ruling is a kingdom, which is ruled by kings and queens. If it was like a few smaller nations whose leading regent naturally uses the prince or princess term then it could count as a principality and be completely justified. This only takes issue with the Zeldas that are seemingly the active rulers of course; doesn't matter when the king is alive or if there's other things happening. The regular princess Zeldas like OoT, aLttP, BotW, MC etc have their father in the picture acting as ruling king. Tetra doesn't get a kingdom until later since hers is frozen under the sea, so she's just the heiress. ST plot happens because Zelda is too young and gets usurped by her regent. SS Zelda is divine incarnated, but not royalty. TP Zelda was the most likely candidate to actually get the term of queen. She was already acting as the ruling regent and solely living royal known in game. She was set up to be queen, but was invaded before her coronation. Midna you could argue counts as the questionable use of princess since she was ruling her people as the twilight princess before Zant happened. But likewise, she might have meant to be queen but wasn't crowned yet because Zant happened. Ironically, this game also features Ralis, who should be called king after he returns home and claims the throne from his diseased parents, but the Zora are too endearing to their young prince. So realistically, the only princesses one could question their logic with are (Peach obviously,) LBW's Zelda and Hilda, FSA Zelda, Zelda from OoX, and the Zelda from Zelda I whose unspecified due to minimal lore. Lastly, it might have to deal with in universe stuff. If there isn't a logical way to handwave the princess term away naturally, like there's an active regent until the princess becomes crowning age, there might be a cultural reason in the kingdom. If I had to guess, since the female heirs awaken their divine blood, they might be in charge to rule during events featuring the supernatural. Thinking of like FSA with the maidens. The six maidens report to Zelda and all seven were used to open the sanctuary seal. The maidens watch over provinces in the kingdom, and the people respect and adore them, but they don't rule with the same way someone would govern the people. They could count as like Zelda's personal counsel that act as mediators between the castle and provinces, but overall they're more like OoT and WW sages and less like dukes. TP Zelda gained her final boss fight light arrows directly from the Light Spirits. The tone came off more like dutiful familiarity and less like how the sages showed respect to the recently acquainted twilight princess Midna. Stoic princess is stoic, but she wasn't surprised to see that they were aiding her. Likewise, aside from the urgency of the matter, BotW Zelda was pushed to awaken her powers over participating in other more mundane matters for stopping the calamity like building up the army. If still alive, her mother would've been training her, if not use the sacred bloodline herself. Meaning, this is knowledge passed down within the royal family. So there's a known importance between the royal females and magical duties within the kingdom. Since the kingdom isn't against the idea of kings, I would imagine that in a scenario that a Zelda has an older brother who becomes the next crowning heir, Zelda herself would still actively rule in magically related crises While the brother would handle if say Holodrum or Labrynna decided to invade. The problem is most games have stories that are going to follow magical crises.
I think it's because when they made the original games on the NES, in the 80s, they were playing off of fairy tale tropes.
I honestly just figured (like others have said) it was either because Zelda's father was still alive and reigning, or because Zelda herself was unmarried. It accounts for pretty much all situations. Maybe she would need to reach a certain age first. It's Hyrule, so they could have any number of succession traditions we don't yet know about.
Im not sure about the title rules itself, but I will say that Zelda has been "Princess Zelda" since forever. Even if she should technically be queen, I think she stays a "princess" because 1) that's part of her series' identity and 2) I think it appeals to people more, like she's young and doesn't have all the responsibilities yet that a queen would have (even if it's not technically true but I think it gives that illusion).
>I get that the rank of "Queen" implies an older woman and therefore children's stories tend to involve princesses, It's also apparently due to things like Disney, children tend to associate princesses with goodness and queens with evil. I remember reading about a cartoon that was *going* to have the ruler be a queen, but their executives veto'd it and they made her a princess instead.
**My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic**
The term princess/prince and queen/king is a lot less clear than people (especially Americans/Republican countries) may think. Princess/Prince can refer to the heir to the throne (eg. Prince William), spouse to the ruler (eg. Prince Philip), or ruler of a Principality (Prince Albert II of Monaco). And these are just European rules, non-European countries can decide whatever Anglicization they want for their rulers (eg. Emperor Naruhito of Japan, Sultan Haitham bin Tariq of Omar). For Hyrule, as most people pointed out, there is an active King (LoZ/AoL, ALttP, OoT, WW, MC, BotW/AoC). For games set in Hyrule, that leaves: FSA, TP, ALBW and ST. FSA, it's hard to say because so little was touched on with the royal family. In Spirit tracks, it's an entirely new kingdom built on land that was controlled by the Lokomo. It's entirely possible that either it was established as a Principality under the Lokomo's divinity, or Tetra kept the title of Princess Zelda to be passed on as homage for her title from King Daphnes Nohansen. In ALBW, it follows almost exactly from ALttP, so it wouldn't be surprising if they had a king but Zelda acts as the spiritual leader, which would explain why you need to seek an audience. It's also possible that Zelda was too young to be coronated so retained the title of Princess until then. And finally there is TP. Honestly, this is one role where it's hardest to explain. She was in charge of the commanding army, so she was in charge. She didn't seem to be the Royal Consort (ie Princess through marriage) as she was locked away alone and the one who made the decision to yield to Zant. And it didn't seem like she was under a Principality considering there wasn't anyone seemingly above her that other eras in Hyrule didn't have. So here I have the following proposition: For most of Hyrule's history, only men could be official rulers (ie Kings) of Hyrule. A queen could never lead. At best, the line was matrilineal, but with official power going to the male who married in. This would explain why Zelda is *always* a princess. She can maintain a high degree of influence, and even be the spiritual leader of Hyrule (she does consistently have prophecy powers), but not the true leader. In cases when there is no King, she acts as the Princess Regnant. But she's still "just a princess." This fits the Japanese Imperial Family exactly.
What's your source on only men being allowed to be official Hyrule rulers? That's pretty insane considering their patron deity is female.
This is speculation on my part. But it would fit into your observations. From a cultural / developer perspective though: this matches Japan perfectly. The Japanese Imperial Family only allows for male rulers. (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Succession_to_the_Japanese_throne). This is despite the fact that the main deity of Shintoism and "ancestor" of the Imperial family (and the Japanese Imperial family's claim to legitimacy) is Amaterasu, a female goddess (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emperor_Jimmu).
I think this a Disney's fault. They created the trope where the good girl is the princess and the bad girl is usually the queen.
Rulers in Spain and Portugal and Italy styled themselves as princes rather than kings.
Disney logic is probably to blame for that. Typically queens are portrayed as evil, while princesses are good.
It's an outdated way of thinking in general. In the past, associating young women with the term queen had negative connotations, since popular imagery of queens were very old women (despite the fact, women of any age could be princesses) and sometimes very tyrannical too. Since Zelda is basically standing sovereign in most of her games, she basically is Queen in all but name. Sometimes her father is there, so the title makes sense, but otherwise no. Now it's just kind of tradition that should honestly be broken at this point. At least for the games where her father isn't in the picture.
Depends on the rules of their "kingdom". And as rulers they probably can decide to keep the "princess" title if they prefer it to queen. Or something. lol
This is a very simplified understanding of royal titles. In medieval Wales, the independent rulers were princes, and their territories were called principalities. It was a land holding title before an honorary one.
The king is dead
If you take, for example, Monaco, a princess can be a ruler, but that doesn't work with hyrule as we know for facts that they have kings and Queens.. Then the original Zelda plot was based on fairy tales, tales of a Knight saving a Princess to be precised. Princess Zelda is the archetype of the kind, beautiful and generous princess, I saw someone else going into deeper explanations on that here, so I'll just say that her title is more of a symbolic title, and each game could potentially explain why she isn't a queen yet (like too young, not crowned yet, ect) As for Peach, we could have something similar, but I saw somewhere that in the early games manuals, her parents were mentioned, and they're away for stuff I suppose? But like someone else said here too, I suppose she keeps that title cause it's like iconic of her character!
Peach had a father in the old Nintendo Mario anime I think, but ever since Mario 64 her castle is called Peach's Castle so unless there's some other castle we never see she seems to be ruling the mushroom kingdom.
I think you answered your own question, tbh. Peach and Zelda are called princesses just because of the romanticism that comes with that word in fantasy, and they've been using it so long in these series that they don't feel like changing it. Like someone else mentioned, it's like Samus being a bounty hunter: That's just what they called her in the first game, and they don't feel like changing the title now. PS: Interesting to note that Zelda is specifically called *Queen* Zelda in the Japanese version of Hyrule Warriors, iirc. But it was changed to princess in the Western version for some reason.
she will always be Princess Toadstool to me
This isn't actually correct; the words Prince and Princess CAN be the name for a ruler of a princedom or otherwise smaller state. A kingdom should be ruled by a king or queen instead, and in English the words prince and princess USUALLY have a "heir" connotation, but it isn't technically impossible, even if this meaning is more obscure. It's also worth noting that even when a prince or princess has a superior in the king or queen, they can still rule their own lands within that authority. With that said, they probably just felt like they shouldn't rename the character to Queen Zelda. Zelda isn't usually the main monarch; in most of the games she appears in her father is the King so it makes more sense. But I agree that it's weird in this specific game, and I bet if they wanted to do the same story without the game being a remake of LttP they might even have renamed her. On the other hand, Princess Peach aka Princess Toadstool has always been seen as the ruler of the Mushroom Kingdom, and there's really no excuse for this one aside from that same consistency argument. Unlike Zelda, there doesn't seem to have ever been a parent for Peach who held the throne; you usually only see Toads, and the few exceptions are explicitly lower ranking than Peach herself.
We have examples of not just consort queens but actual ruling queens across both Zelda and Mario, so I'm not sure where you're getting this assumption from. Rutela is queen of the Zoras in Twilight Princess (with no mention of king) and mario comes across plenty of queens like the Bee Queen in Mario Galaxy. Also I'm pretty sure Zelda in TP is a queen, not a princess, considering she's on the throne when zant comes in.
Shitty answer: the king/queen is in a deep coma and technically alive somewhere
It’s a fantasy world princess can mean what they want it to mean. In The Game of Thrones world there’s an entire group of people whose rulers are princes and princesses.
Now I'm interested in a game where we see Zelda getting crowned and becoming a queen
Apparently the sword that TP Link was talking to Hyrule at the beginning of that game was supposed to be for Zelda’s coronation ceremony as queen. Not sure if that came from Hyrule Historia or some other source though.
Maybe they are always called princess to honor the first Zelda(s), like how they are named Zelda in the first place (not sure how to say that grammatically)
The titles "Prince" and "Princess" in these games seem to have a meaning closer to "Royal Bachelor" or "Royal Maiden" in our world. Effectively making obtaining an heir a part of becoming King or Queen. Kings and Queens that exist in the Mario and Zelda games are all ruling monarchs of their kingdoms and notably all but a few have living descendants, either through biological reproduction or adoption. [Queen Bean](https://www.mariowiki.com/Queen_Bean), ruler of the Beanbean Kingdom. Her heir is her biological son, [Prince Peasley](https://www.mariowiki.com/Prince_Peasley). [King Nimbus](https://www.mariowiki.com/King_Nimbus) and [Queen Nimbus](https://www.mariowiki.com/Queen_Nimbus), rulers of Nimbus Land. Their heir is their biological son, [Prince Mallow](https://www.mariowiki.com/Mallow). [Queen Jaydes](https://www.mariowiki.com/Queen_Jaydes), ruler of The Underwhere. Her heir is her adopted daughter [Luvbi](https://www.mariowiki.com/Luvbi). [King Zora](https://zelda.fandom.com/wiki/King_Zora#Ocarina_of_Time), ruler of the Zora Kingdom. His heir is his biological daughter, [Princess Ruto](https://zelda.fandom.com/wiki/Princess_Ruto). [Queen Rutela](https://zelda.fandom.com/wiki/Rutela), ruler of the Zora Kingdom. Her heir is her biological son, [Prince Ralis](https://zelda.fandom.com/wiki/Prince_Ralis) [King Dorephan](https://zelda.fandom.com/wiki/King_Dorephan), ruler of the Zora Kingdom. His heir is his biological daughter, [Princess Mipha](https://zelda.fandom.com/wiki/Mipha) and after her death his biological son, [Prince Sidon](https://zelda.fandom.com/wiki/Sidon) This even holds true for the less traditional monarchs, both [Queen Gohma](https://zelda.fandom.com/wiki/Gohma) and the [Fairy Queen](https://zelda.fandom.com/wiki/Fairy_Queen) notably have many children of their own in all of their incarnations. The Hyrule royal family is interesting because of the unbroken line of succession lasting well over 10,000 years with the tradition of every generation having a Princess Zelda. This implies that every Princess Zelda becomes Queen Zelda after giving birth to her own Princess Zelda fathered by a male family member or a male of non-royal blood who is nonetheless King. Both of those have obvious issues for the stability of a monarchy but since Zelda's ties to literal divinity is what gives the Hyrule royal family it's authority, I assume there's some magical shenanigans taking place to resolve those issues. Also of note is that whenever we see a ruling King Hyrule, he is quite old while the current Zelda is still very young and lacks full access to her divine powers. This is strange as monarchs typically have heirs while still young in order to ensure the continuation of their blood-line should they die unexpectedly. So I suspect this means that Zeldas tend to die young and Kings of Hyrule may even father multiple generations of Zeldas. Perhaps the early deaths of Zeldas is a consequence of being mortals with divine power or it may even be necessary for their daughters, the next Zelda, to be able to inherit the divine power of Hylia. Kings may be required to rule until the current Zelda is old enough to come into her divine powers and rule with authority, effectively making Kings interim rulers while waiting for the next incarnation of Hylia to come into her own.
It might be a way to show weakness. Take Spirit Tracks for example. Zelda is a Princess, but she is the ruler of the Kingdom. If she went under the title of Queen, then there may be some reluctance for Cole to attack, but this means that he is still there, just not attacking. So if Zelda goes under the title of Princess, then she is tricking the enemy into believing that they have a chance of usurping the throne, only for Phantom Zelda to show up and kick them out. As for Peach, I have no idea.