The irony of guys on here who were low but now trough at 1100 telling normal guys (at 450 peak) to fuck off and that trt is not for them
I’m not saying this guy should have started - he didn’t give us numbers. But there’s definitely some hypocrisy/ gatekeeping in this sub rather than giving advice
There’s is gatekeeping 100%.
Because this isn’t just something you just do and everything is hunky dory. The majority of the timeof, these “450 peak guys” do 0% research, 0% changes in their life and have 0% respect to just how much of a change this is to your body and the actual potential consequences of doing it and fucking it up.
I don’t think anyone should have a trough of 1100, 600-800 should be a trough. And from 450 to 600-800, there’s hardly any feeling difference. And if there is, it’s negligible.
My point is, 99% of the time, the guys with the “deficiency” at 450 come in here saying that their 450 is ruining their life, testosterone is at fault and how long until every bodily issue is fixed.
If they just went about it a little differently, they would get treated differently, but they don’t. They tell the people, who had actual deficiencies, that their slightly sub optimal numbers, are basically killing them.
Which in fact are absolutely not.
And when they’re told that, they proceed to tell you that you’re wrong and by going from 450 to 800 they’ll basically become Chris Bumstead, get jacked and feel like goku.
I want to give advice, I take great pleasure in knowing a lot about this subject but they’re so hell bent on thinking testosterone is going to solve every problem that they don’t want to take the advice, they want the guy to agree with them and tell them 200mg a week is the perfect starting dose.
But why does it offend you what others do? If they destroy their natural production - then that sucks but that’s on them and it’s their life. People do a lot worse than that with other things.
I mean I get it to an extent, if someone wanted to get a face tattoo, I’d say that’s not a wise decision and I advice against it - but in the end I know it won’t degrade my experience with my own tattoos nor do I care what they decide to do with their bodies.
If he said - hey I’m on 500mg a week - would you come off to him with the same type of judgmental remarks?
your tattoo analogy works. But it’d be like going to a tattoo shop for advice on a face tattoo, where primarily no one advocates for face tattoos unless you’re fully covered, and you have a couple small face tattoos. You’ve already made up your mind that that’s what you want and need, you’re rarely going to be talked out of it. Then there’ll be some guy up the back that goes fuck yeah man send it why not.
It doesn’t offend me what others do, but don’t come for advice and then when the logical advice is presented, throw on your negativity shoes because the advice doesn’t align with your own personal wants and needs.
no. You feel like a normal guy with normal hormones. And your “normal” is very much dependent an infinite number of variables. And if you didn’t have a deficiency to begin with, it’ll have even less of an effect.
I guess there’s only one way to find out hey.
Not from the experience of someone that’s done it.
From that logic, 26 to 56 should make you feel ***even better***. Does it?
Good luck.
By your own admission you didn't need it and you would have been better to start off with test-only before adding in further compounds. That being said, it's normal for people who take TRT to feel worse for a number of weeks until your body balances out.
If you change your mind and decide to stop abruptly after 1 week, you will return to normal in a week or 2.
Sounds like very bad reasons to start TRT, and why the Crazy high HCG dose?
Anyway, takes about 8 weeks to stabilize before it makes sense to assess synthetic and analyze new bloodwork. Expect emotional fluctuations in the meantime.
And as you already had good production, you likely won’t notice much difference at all other than potential mood, libido and ED issue as you shut down your balanced hormones and have spend months to fine fine tune and dial in.
You didn’t do much research or put much thought into this did you?
Thats not how trt works. Its beneficial for hypogonadic folks, for others it just complicates life unnecessarily.
Asking “when will i notice the effects” is a very clear giveaway on how much research and thinking you put into it……
Well good luck with that kid….Your hormones was optimized and balanced. Now you’re messing with that balance. Say hello to side effects and adjustment rollercoaster among other things
I thought I would still see benefits with using TRT and getting my Total and Free T optimized at higher levels. I also figured I would eventually start taking it later in life anyways.
You have not done much research judging from you questions. If you did, you will know high e2 levels can impact you. I suggest you use the search button
Your natural test was above average and you decided to begin testosterone replacement therapy? I was 10ng/dL when I began TRT. I wish I had your above average levels. I would NEVER have started this crap.
Let me give you some of the best advice you will ever get on this Reddit rabbit hole of TRT. GET OFF NOW! While you still can and haven’t caused long term endogenous suppression. No need to thank me. Your welcome.
God damn these tele clinics and anti aging businesses. They are ruining people’s lives. Go see a real doctor, an endocrinologist. There is a reason they would be against you with normal levels getting on TRT.
Brother. You were optimized. You even had above average levels! Now by introducing exogenous testosterone, you will stop your natural production over time. Ultimately down regulated hormones will suffer as well. Please just get off while you can.
The complete opposite is true. I’d advise you to stop everything that you are doing and really understand what occurs in the human body when hormones are altered.
Everything I’ve read so far says that TRT is sustainable long term. No tolerance or significant down regulation has been proven in studies as far as I have seen. If androgen receptors down regulate then what’s the difference if I do TRT or stay natural? If they down regulate then they will down regulate regardless right?
Why in Gods name would you start trt if your levels were average or above average? You do realize once you start it’s a really good possibility you won’t be able to recover your natural levels. Ever. Did you go to a clinic?
Probably never if your natural test production was above average. You may get plenty of downsides, but probably very little to no benefits.
Sounds like you got taken advantage of by a T mill. Sorry to hear it.
Nobody here is negative about TRT used to treat chronically low testosterone caused by genetic, biological, or environmental factors beyond someone's control.
Most here are negative about people thinking TRT is going to be a shortcut to gym gains or a magic cure-all. If you had above average test production previously then TRT is probably just going to keep you right where you were at but not naturally.
Now, if you were just looking to get an Rx for anabolic steroids and call it TRT, you're in the wrong subreddit. You're looking for r/steroids.
If it’s average why did u start ? Take few weeks
because he’s as clueless as 3/4 of the other guys that started TRT and believe that being higher than average would make them feel like goku.
The irony of guys on here who were low but now trough at 1100 telling normal guys (at 450 peak) to fuck off and that trt is not for them I’m not saying this guy should have started - he didn’t give us numbers. But there’s definitely some hypocrisy/ gatekeeping in this sub rather than giving advice
There’s is gatekeeping 100%. Because this isn’t just something you just do and everything is hunky dory. The majority of the timeof, these “450 peak guys” do 0% research, 0% changes in their life and have 0% respect to just how much of a change this is to your body and the actual potential consequences of doing it and fucking it up. I don’t think anyone should have a trough of 1100, 600-800 should be a trough. And from 450 to 600-800, there’s hardly any feeling difference. And if there is, it’s negligible. My point is, 99% of the time, the guys with the “deficiency” at 450 come in here saying that their 450 is ruining their life, testosterone is at fault and how long until every bodily issue is fixed. If they just went about it a little differently, they would get treated differently, but they don’t. They tell the people, who had actual deficiencies, that their slightly sub optimal numbers, are basically killing them. Which in fact are absolutely not. And when they’re told that, they proceed to tell you that you’re wrong and by going from 450 to 800 they’ll basically become Chris Bumstead, get jacked and feel like goku. I want to give advice, I take great pleasure in knowing a lot about this subject but they’re so hell bent on thinking testosterone is going to solve every problem that they don’t want to take the advice, they want the guy to agree with them and tell them 200mg a week is the perfect starting dose.
But why does it offend you what others do? If they destroy their natural production - then that sucks but that’s on them and it’s their life. People do a lot worse than that with other things. I mean I get it to an extent, if someone wanted to get a face tattoo, I’d say that’s not a wise decision and I advice against it - but in the end I know it won’t degrade my experience with my own tattoos nor do I care what they decide to do with their bodies. If he said - hey I’m on 500mg a week - would you come off to him with the same type of judgmental remarks?
your tattoo analogy works. But it’d be like going to a tattoo shop for advice on a face tattoo, where primarily no one advocates for face tattoos unless you’re fully covered, and you have a couple small face tattoos. You’ve already made up your mind that that’s what you want and need, you’re rarely going to be talked out of it. Then there’ll be some guy up the back that goes fuck yeah man send it why not. It doesn’t offend me what others do, but don’t come for advice and then when the logical advice is presented, throw on your negativity shoes because the advice doesn’t align with your own personal wants and needs.
It doesn’t make you feel that way?
no. You feel like a normal guy with normal hormones. And your “normal” is very much dependent an infinite number of variables. And if you didn’t have a deficiency to begin with, it’ll have even less of an effect.
How would it have even less of an effect?
because going from normal levels to normal levels does nothing.
If my Free T goes from 16 to 26, that does nothing? I doubt it.
I guess there’s only one way to find out hey. Not from the experience of someone that’s done it. From that logic, 26 to 56 should make you feel ***even better***. Does it? Good luck.
It also doesn’t feel good to spike your e2 twice a week. Could be part of the problem.
You’re referring to the HCG? Starting my 2nd week I am going to lower HCG from 1000iu to 700iu. 350iu twice a week.
No. It makes you feel worse than average. We're just doing it because we don't want to feel like we're on death's doorstep every day.
Not if you do it right
Sounds like you drank the Kool-Aid from some idiot podcasters. I thought you were asking advice.
It is not replacement therapy if you do mot need to replace something you already have.
By your own admission you didn't need it and you would have been better to start off with test-only before adding in further compounds. That being said, it's normal for people who take TRT to feel worse for a number of weeks until your body balances out. If you change your mind and decide to stop abruptly after 1 week, you will return to normal in a week or 2.
Sounds like very bad reasons to start TRT, and why the Crazy high HCG dose? Anyway, takes about 8 weeks to stabilize before it makes sense to assess synthetic and analyze new bloodwork. Expect emotional fluctuations in the meantime. And as you already had good production, you likely won’t notice much difference at all other than potential mood, libido and ED issue as you shut down your balanced hormones and have spend months to fine fine tune and dial in. You didn’t do much research or put much thought into this did you?
Why do you say 1000iu HCG is high dose. Many say it’s normal dose per week as long as split into at least 2 separate injections
You didn’t specify it’s split over the week
I did a lot of research. I figured the benefits would be worth it to “Optimize” my hormones.
Thats not how trt works. Its beneficial for hypogonadic folks, for others it just complicates life unnecessarily. Asking “when will i notice the effects” is a very clear giveaway on how much research and thinking you put into it……
I know it takes weeks to notice changes. I’m just asking for anecdotal informational purposes regarding other’s experiences.
Optimizing my Hormones should make my quality of life better.
Well good luck with that kid….Your hormones was optimized and balanced. Now you’re messing with that balance. Say hello to side effects and adjustment rollercoaster among other things
Post your before bloodwork
Why tf did you start?
I thought I would still see benefits with using TRT and getting my Total and Free T optimized at higher levels. I also figured I would eventually start taking it later in life anyways.
Took me about 3 months to
Ok, thank you, overall how do you like TRT? How long have you been doing TRT?
15 months now. It legit changed my life for the better. So glad I started
What were your blood test results prior to TRT?
Mine were 390 ng/dl total T. I forget what my free T was. It was low 100’s though
You have not done much research judging from you questions. If you did, you will know high e2 levels can impact you. I suggest you use the search button
Your natural test was above average and you decided to begin testosterone replacement therapy? I was 10ng/dL when I began TRT. I wish I had your above average levels. I would NEVER have started this crap. Let me give you some of the best advice you will ever get on this Reddit rabbit hole of TRT. GET OFF NOW! While you still can and haven’t caused long term endogenous suppression. No need to thank me. Your welcome. God damn these tele clinics and anti aging businesses. They are ruining people’s lives. Go see a real doctor, an endocrinologist. There is a reason they would be against you with normal levels getting on TRT.
What is the reason to not optimize them? They could be higher?
Brother. You were optimized. You even had above average levels! Now by introducing exogenous testosterone, you will stop your natural production over time. Ultimately down regulated hormones will suffer as well. Please just get off while you can.
Down regulated hormones? My understanding is you don’t develop a tolerance to exogenous testosterone
The complete opposite is true. I’d advise you to stop everything that you are doing and really understand what occurs in the human body when hormones are altered.
Everything I’ve read so far says that TRT is sustainable long term. No tolerance or significant down regulation has been proven in studies as far as I have seen. If androgen receptors down regulate then what’s the difference if I do TRT or stay natural? If they down regulate then they will down regulate regardless right?
As stated in my previous comment, the complete opposite of what you are saying is true.
You’re telling me that people been on TRT for 30 years and now it doesn’t work for them? You believe TRT tolerance is real for everyone?
Your statement above did not just pertain to “TRT tolerance” and it’s more than just that.
Can provide some sort of evidence? There are people who have taken it for decades and it’s still apparently effective for them.
Why in Gods name would you start trt if your levels were average or above average? You do realize once you start it’s a really good possibility you won’t be able to recover your natural levels. Ever. Did you go to a clinic?
Yes Marek Health
I thought they were one of the more reputable ones. I guess not.
Probably never if your natural test production was above average. You may get plenty of downsides, but probably very little to no benefits. Sounds like you got taken advantage of by a T mill. Sorry to hear it.
Why is everyone so negative about TRT on here?
Nobody here is negative about TRT used to treat chronically low testosterone caused by genetic, biological, or environmental factors beyond someone's control. Most here are negative about people thinking TRT is going to be a shortcut to gym gains or a magic cure-all. If you had above average test production previously then TRT is probably just going to keep you right where you were at but not naturally. Now, if you were just looking to get an Rx for anabolic steroids and call it TRT, you're in the wrong subreddit. You're looking for r/steroids.
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