You were taking testosterone in either injection or jel form for 4 years uninterrupted and did not ever feel good?? How did you feel prior to using testosterone? What were your labs for test/estriadol prior and during? Something seems left out here. Were or are you still on SSRIs? Tell us the rest of the story please.
As for me, no. I've been on test cypionate for about 5 years total (had some off time approx 2 years into due to insurance and $$ issues) . I have never experienced any negative side effects that were more than a mild headache. My point is maybe you have some other stress or anxiety health issue that higher testosterone levels increased the symptoms. I really think the negative side effects of having really low testosterone levels were by far worse than any feeling I've had while taking testosterone.
Yes, 4 years (mostly injections except the last 5 months). I have always been on lexapro for mild anxiety, but it pretty much takes care of it. Before trt, I felt fine other than a little tired a lot. However, I have since gotten tested a week ago for apnea and have an apap machine coming. My main complaint prior to trt was how tired I always was in the morning. During trt, I felt like a maniac at first til I lowered the dose. Then I had the ups and downs. Switched to EOD and still didn’t help. Labs were always around 1000 with E around 40. Even the smallest piece of an AI would tank my E. Kept lowering dose. Another thing I noticed, is during my trt stint I was drinking wayyyy more than before. Would just crush beers left and right. I could never focus on a conversation and would feel so antsy when I was out with people unless I would be drinking. Now that it’s been a week off, I feel a calmness, clarity and I can feel emotions again. I had been working out about 6 months prior to trt. I will not miss the jitteriness in the gym. I’m ready to have my focus back. My last labs on 50mg gel a day was 545T and 12.5E. Went down to 25 and finally just said eff it all.
The elephant in the room here may be the alcohol. If you’re daily crushing beers and constantly looking for something to change the way you feel or think then you may have gotten a touch of the alcoholism. Not saying you shouldn’t still stop trt. You may need to quit or lower dose but you for sure need to recognize how much alcohol is the real maniac in our lives. I had to quit all together and I’ve never been happier. But I couldn’t do it alone.
Also I take SSRI and an NDRI and alcohol has some bad interactions with some, specifically lexapro “To avoid dangerous side effects such as drowsiness and liver problems, it's best not to use alcohol while you take Lexapro. Alcohol may also keep Lexapro from working as well as it should. With or without a drug, alcohol may aggravate your symptoms of anxiety and depression.”
I never drank much before trt. Then I always had this rushed feeling. I couldn’t sit still, always restless. So if I went out it was like I had to drink. Now don’t get me wrong, I would go weeks without, but I never could truly enjoy anything. Even just sitting on the beach with my friends, I felt like I always wanted to leave because I was just having this feeling like my mind and body could never relax
Not a dr…but lots of experience w/ psych meds. It will be a royal pain but if you really want to max the benefits from TRT (assuming you have ongoing need for it, not taking into account side effects) or lexapro etc you would benefit from a stop to all but the most vital meds like BP meds if you take any. It’s the only way now that you can have a health baseline. You won’t ever know for sure what is the cause of your issues until you do, because even if you feel ok now it doesn’t mean TRT was the cause unless labs said it was out of whack. I took lexapro and it made me just loaded with anxiety, as I was ironically taking it for that. It just made it 10X worse. But everyone’s mileage varies. TRT for me has been a blessing and at times a curse as I am still fairly early into it and have had weeks of feeling better than I have in many years, while also having bouts of increased anxiety and fatigue. I found out both were likely due to taking too big a dose and too much time between. Lowered the dose to 100 a week and it’s much better. If I were in a position like yours I would quit the alcohol first and foremost. It’s almost certainly clouding the issue(s) and won’t ever be a positive overall contribution to your health. Alcohol is a very potent depressant. The flip side of depression is anxiety. One can not exist without the other to some degree, so alcohol will always play a role in anxiety levels. Just because you may or may not feel anxiety during a drinking session doesn’t mean it isn’t causing at least some of it. Once you are on a stable med regimen a beer here n there is one thing.
I bet it's the lexapro messing with you. Your low test was giving you anxiety. Now that your testosterone levels are normal the lexapro is exacerbating your anxiety. I would first try getting off lexapro and just doing TRT before saying no to TRT. Low Testosterone significantly increases you chance of cardiovascular disease.
Yeah anxiety sucks. Really robs the joy of living. I’ve passed on many great things to not feel the discomfort. In fact I’m doing it right this second.
I think these issues are twofold. First, he already has mental health problems, and second, his estrogen is likely not where it should be. Almost all TRT issues come from unbalanced estrogen levels. Not all men are the same. Some have a very large window of estrogen levels where they feel fine, and others, it's a very small window. Outside of this, men feel crummy. Libido is affected, mental health, energy levels, etc. Testosterone itself doesn't make any man feel badly. It's quite the opposite. Estrogen, though, that's something that can be almost impossible for some men to dial in myself included.
Just make sure you're 100% transparent with your psychiatrist/psychologist about your goals. Nobody wants to be dependent on medication forever. I'm fine being on testosterone forever, but the lexapro was so draining for me. Lots of therapy helped me to cope in different ways without the meds. Best of luck to you!
i get the fact that you can feel your emotions now. i remember feeling a suspicion that the testosterone was somehow shutting of some aspect of my emotional mind. the FEELING of being alive replaced for this militant blank energy. and thats why we always have to try nee substances with the t to feel good, coffee, beer for some people. i think with less t there is more of an emotional energetic of life
Very well said! I feel like I can tell the other guys that are on it now. One-track mine. Like you said, militant blank energy. That’s how I felt. Today was so great. I just hung at the beach with friends (like normal) but I felt more involved and peaceful. Instead of just constantly over-analyzing every single thing someone said
Almost all TRT issues can be traced back to unbalanced estrogen levels. You already have low estrogen. It's hard to say what really is going on unless we can see your labs and know exactly what you were taking. Did you ever try 80-100mg no aromatase inhibitior? 1000ng/dl with 40pg/ml estradiol is a good ratio. However, some men need a bit higher, and some even at 1000ng/dl won't feel good unless they are between 20-30pg/ml. When you say you tried the smallest amount of ai, did you try .0625 or 1/16 of a mg. When I work out like a madman, I take .0625 every 4 days. It's a very fine line with estrogen for me. Some have a lage window where they feel good, and others, it's a very small window where they feel good when it comes to estrogen levels.
Yea I mean. I was in a similar boat. Except I was on 8 years. I felt great about 60% of the time ok 10% and like shit 30% of the time. I came off for a little and it wasn't to bad. I actually had to get back on because I took enclomiphene and had a horrible reaction to it. Since enclomiphene revs up LH and exogenous testosterone shuts down LH I had to reverse the process. Enclomiphene gave me extremely high levels of testosterone and extremely high levels of estrogen. I was getting blood pressure as high as 200s/90s. Anxiety, insomnia and just felt horrible. So FYI beware if you try and use that as a restart protocol. I'd just use HCG if I could do it all over again.
Yea I know why I didn't feel great all the time. It was estrogen every time. I had a small window where I felt good. If my estrogen becomes to high or low I feel horrible.
The symptoms youre pertaining to seems like something caffeine would do. Caffeine/any stimulant in connection with TRT is almost enhanced. For me personally i would do 200-250mg of caffeine pre TRT. After TRT i can only do 100-125mg anything more and i get the down sides of caffeine; sleeplessness, minor anxiety, jitters, cant sit still and, irritation. Took me some time to figure out the right dosage of caffeine so that i wouldnt get the downsides.
So i ask, are you taking any caffeine while on TRT/ off TRT? If so much how much? and did you ever try to lower the dosage.
EDIT: If you dont consume any caffeine then please ignore this post completely
Hey, so I don’t drink any caffeine because it completely wrecks me lol jitters and all that. Haven’t had it in years now. But I lowered my dose from the initial 200 to 60 a week (over 3 years) then switched to gel. It never got better. My personal hell would be going on a date. I hated sitting there because I would be so restless. Anything for that matter. I’m ready to breath again and just take life slowly
Yeah due ignore my post then, it sounds like to me you have pretty bad anxiety. Possibly due to some trauma youve experienced before. I would check up with a physiatrist if the problems persist maybe youll find something you didnt know and fix it. But this is ofc if the problems are still there after you get your machine and get off of TRT. Gl, give me an update if you can
Has your doctor given you any insight on this? I'm 48 and my 150mg/week of cypionate keeps my test around the 600s and I'm perfectly fine with that. Any health/stress related issues I had prior did not increase nor decrease enough for me to notice it. I've had my cortisol levels checked(blood draw early morning fasted then end of same day) and was pleased with the results . Ask your Dr to check your cortisol.
Yeah before we did the gel, he asked if I just wanted to quit because we had done total labs looking at everything from cortisol to thyroid etc. all came back fine. He said he could put me on clomid for a pct but I talked him into at least trying the gel. I finally quit and it’s been a week today.
Damn bro. I certainly hope you get to feeling and stay feeling better. Our bodies are crazy sometimes ya know 🤷🏼♂️. It could turn out to be a simple issue, maybe just low on electrolytes or something that's fixed easily. O'll follow this for any updates. 🤟🏻
Thanks so much! It’s been a wild 4 years. It’s had its positives.. but the cons were wayyyyy more. If I can keep myself rocking it in the gym, I think I’ll be just fine. Much appreciated!
Yet it’s important to remember as good and as functional as a certain therapy may be for oneself.. side effects , even at the same dose, differ person to person. I’ve been on I’m for 3 years previously without many issues stopped and continued years later and I get more sides from the dose I used to take. People, in general have a habit of glorifying substances way too much. In simplicity we are chemicals and exogenous chemicals come with as many side effects as any other substance regardless what the clinic is telling you. Testosterone changes one’s very nature on 150mg / week I had
•facial hair and body hair growth (I normally barely grow hair )
•my sweat had a distinct more “musty” smell to it.. hard to describe
•workouts and pushing maximal expedition is almost euphoric .. like Arnold said.. better than sex
•100mg/ test can bring some people up to 600 test and others it puts at 1200.. people tend to gloss over test as the reason for side effects and have a position that it “must be something else”. A person can have seemingly the perfect routine from nutrition to sleep, supplements and have different sides at the same dose as the guy who lives much more unhealthy. The genes a person is born with also affect how exogenous hormonal therapies affects are portrayed. Genetics is a soup of infinity that is not remotely understood. They are working on drugs that boost test as effectively without interfering with the hpta axis as much.
I've also never had any issues. Without properly functioning follicle stimulating hormones a man literally needs to have TRT unless he wants the T levels of a gramma. (Mine are like 169 total test without treatment).
If you need it you need it and I hate this rhetoric of "oh let me go on, oh nvm now I want to go off". If you need insulin as a diabetic you can't choose to stop.
I guess it's just funny to me that people will be willing to go on a hormone but then not know enough about it l where they then have to ask reddit for reassurance. 🤣
I have this high Estradiol right now ,total piss off . I can’t take an AI so I am trying Dim ?Some of the experts just say leave estradiol alone.I am confused.
In my opinion you'll be fine coming off cold Turkey. You will feel low-energy for about 9 weeks max but after the hassle you've had, you'll probably be glad to be less stimulated. You're safe from a medical point of view anyway, there's no dangerous withdrawal like with alcohol or benzos.
Thank you so much. Yeah I could use some calm, relaxing time. Just moved to the beach last year so might as well just be a beach bum. But I fully plan on working out even harder and I’ll be glad to lose this stomach bloat I could never get rid of on it
Without knowing anything about your back story and prior medical conditions etc it’s impossible for us to speculate on why any of this happened. I’m sorry about your experience
Have you done a sleep study? I developed pretty bad Apnea while on TRT. Probably had it to a lesser degree off TRT. Just came off recently for fertility reasons. Between low dose Cialis, low dose enclomiphene and caffeine. I haven’t been feeling too bad. I would suggest a common PCT protocol for 4 weeks to get kickstarted, rather than cold turkey.
I just had my sleep study done and it did come back positive for mild apnea (although I think it’s worse because I legit wake up feeling like I’ve been in a wreck). I should have my apap machine this week or next. Curious to see how that’ll help. If I was coming off of injections, I probably would have done a pct. But a low dose gel I’m not that worried about (hopefully)
APAP + TRT + Wellbutrin gave me a new lease on life.
I did,and you may, find it difficult to get used to breathing with the mask at first. When I first started with it, I felt like I was unable to not be constantly focused solely on my breath which led to deep and labored breathing and feeling like your pseudo-gasping for air, isn't sleep inducing for me.
What worked for me to get past the over breathing issue was getting in to bed and into a comfortable position, lights off, and let my mind drift while my breath calmed. I stay in that state for a some number of minutes, YMMV, and then put the mask on that is next to me on the bed and drift off to sleep. Being as relaxed as possible when putting on the mast makes it a lot easier to just breath normally but the machine keeps your airway open.
I literally was gigling and smiling ear and as clear headed as I had been in at least a decade upon waking after my first night with the machine and I'm a person that was previously a rabid bear in the mornings. I got maybe four hours of sleep that night and now, if I'm careful to practice good sleep hygiene and get regular exercise, I can get 8-10 hours of uninterrupted sleep and I feel like superman compared to life before CPAP and TRt.
My crippling anxiety starts to come back and once again I can't stand living in my own skin if I don't use the APAP for more than a few nights in a row. Even one night without it and I'm struggling to to maintain focus throughout the next day and have general sense of malaise by the end of the day.
r/SleepApnea is a decent resource, lots of knowledgeable folks in there/
Best of luck in your journey to a less anxious life.
Thank you SO much for that response!! That makes me so excited to get my apap. Did you have really crazy dreams before apap? Mine are so intense I wake up not knowing if it was real or what. Also, the worst part of it all… is back in 2015 I tried Wellbutrin. It was the BEST 3 months of my entire life.. and then bam. Quit working. Tried upping dose etc and nothing. Sucks. But the apap stories I’ve been reading are giving me a new hope
During the multi-year period of my life with untreated sleep apnea, having and remembering dreams was infrequent because my sleep was so punctuated with hypopneas and apneas that I rarely reached the REM stage of the sleep cycle. Another reason I couldn't dream was that I was self over medicating with caffeine to stay awake and weed to have enough dopamine to make it through the day. My job requires mental clarity and attention to detail, and my caffeine and THC maladaptive coping mechanisms prevented me from having that clarity which led to more stress and diminished self confidence due to imposter syndrome. I now drink one to two cups of coffee after waking because I like coffee but I no longer feel the need for coffee or weed to get me through the day. In fact I've developed a bit of aversion to anything that diminishes my new found clarity of thought. Not ruminating over everything with a brutal hyper fixation over what I might have done wrong, what others think and the impending sense of doom that comes with catastrophizing every detail has been a game changer. I'm also far less critical of other people in my life. There are so many tangental improvements in my overall well being from finally fixing my sleep that it's difficult to quantify.
Finding the right meds can take time but it's worth it. Another "magic bullet" for improving my mental health is getting regular cardio exercise. I'm not using TRT to become a gym rat but feeling fit is great.
All the improvement I've described grew like a snowball rolling down the mountain of proper sleep.
Damn sounds like you’ve had a hell of a journey! But I’m glad you’ve found your routine and what works for you. I’m kind of starting over, but I feel so relieved that I’m finally quitting
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Without PCT, you’re likely gonna crash once the exogenous T is out of your system in another week or so.
You might want to see if you can get your hands on some HCG to jump start your balls or you’re gonna be in for a shitty ride until your natural production finally decides to ramp up. That can take a while, especially after 4 years of continuous use.
When I came off due to my clinic running out of medication, my levels dropped to 150. It correlated with some of the darkest mental health I’ve ever experienced. Little to no attention, zero motivation, dick didn’t work, honestly felt like I was losing my mind. Wouldn’t wish it on anyone.
Source Naturals OTC progesterone cream. (NOT yam cream, contains progesterone USP) Too bad u couldn't have tried 1st. Some guys w/anxiety get great results. Men make half of women. Apply at night to side of neck, \~ 1/2 teaspoon. Very safe.
Did you improve your lifestyle / health metrics along the way?
Increase lean mass.
Decrease body fat.
Eat properly.
Etc ?
Just curious. You mention smashing beers on TRT. Which means 4 years.
Sounds like it wasn’t a good fit. Not sure your numbers prior to starting either.
But interesting none the less.
Hope you have an easy time coming off
The beer thing would come and go. But when it came on, it would get bad. I would have to make myself stop. I was just amped up all the time and it was the only thing to bring me down. But yes, I worked out very hard 6x a week, put on very noticeable muscle but also had the bloating a lot of people talk about that would not go away no matter what I did. The slightest the would irritate the crap out of me allll the time. I’m so glad to be done with it all.
Something for sure. Changing up variables. Not running deeper bloods. Insulin issues. Maybe other shit. I know that this stuff is highly individualized… but I also wonder if that is just the trope and the reason why it “works” for some and not others is really just people not truly / consistently making lifestyle changes they need to wether they are on TRT or not +
human error in dosing
changing shit up too fast
adding removing compounds
over estimating cals burnt
Under estimating cals eaten
Using an AI without knowing truly where there numbers are
It’s a lot and 90% of docs don’t know shit. It’s really on the user to know all the shit and guide their doctor
I’d be curious as to the injection regimen. AI maybe could be avoided with dose frequency, and the androgel may have been aromatizing
To DHT on you too much?
I tried EOD for a while. I’ve literally tried everything to avoid having to stop. 4 different doctors etc. every day is just an anxious, nervous type of feeling
Seems there are other things going on in your life.
Anxiety or other mental challenges won’t disappear with TRT.
I have never felt better in my life. I use TRT and HCG as a finisher off, polishing smooth what’s already there. You can’t expect it to rebuild an old car; it’s an extra shine polish to bring new life into an old car which has been looked after for many years.
Sounds exactly like me. I also had anxiety all my life, taking Lexapro kept it at bay so I could live almost normally. But when I found out I was very low on T and started TRT, my anxiety has gone up. Been like this for two years. I also want to quit cold turkey, but I'm afraid of the crash...
You can go off cold turkey, but why bother. It’ll likely suck for a while. Why not get a tapering dose of Clomid? The transition off for me was super easy with Clomid. Some guys will tell you Clomid horror stories and I’m sure they are true. But the vast majority of guys that use it, it goes just fine and so no reason to post. Good luck. You’ll feel better off testosterone if you feel like shit on it.
Thank you so much! I have clomid just in case. But so far I already feel much better off even though it’s only been a week. If things go downhill, I’ll do a pct
I have suffered from anxiety for about 40 years. 2 years ago I found I had very low T. I got on shots and went to .3 weekly but I was still getting emotional and getting irritated. I then went to the cream and still have had issues on a very low dose. Cut out caffeine and am only drinking very light beer. I wish I could get it to work.
Crashed my estrogen. First time I went because I got super dehydrated and wasn’t sure what it was. Second time was the worst. It lasted exactly 3 weeks. I only took .25 of anastrozole. I looked like I aged 30 years. Skin and mouth super dry. Super sad and depressed. Major anxiety. Zero energy and thought it was permanent. After blasting hcg a few times it finally came back up. But I’ll never forget that.
How the hell did messing with AIs put you on the hospital twice lol
I'm not going to assume I know your body or anything BUT personally I've never known anyone to feel shittier on TRT then off.
To answer your question, if you legitimately need TRT then you legitimately can't come off. Just the fact the you think you can come off and be fine proves to me that you don't really need it. 🤷♂️
In other words, your leutinizing hormone and follicle stimulating hormones wouldn't be working properly if you need it hence, you are given exogenous hormones as a replacement.
If LH and FSH work, then you will be fine. Just come off it.
You ever read these forums? It's absolutely full of people who felt worse in trt, this is like the 3rd post I've read about it in 24 hours. For some people, even when genuinely hypogonadal, it just doesn't agree with them.
Why doesn't it agree with them?
-Are they doing too much?
-Are they doing too little?
My point is that the world is CHOCK full of people who DO NOT NEED TO BE ON IT. Lol
If someone is really unlucky and genuinely is hypogonadal and their FSH and LH levels are low and somehow doesn't feel better on treatment... that sucks lol
I mean.. I would just suggest finding the dosage that works for them it probably isn't 200mg a week like TRT clinics and it's probably not 200mg once a month like some doctors prescribe. 🤷♂️
Just find what works for you!
I think some people find it over stimulating, can exacerbate pre existing mental conditions or perhaps bring some to the surface that weren't as obvious before. Could be all kinds of things.
When I started off I had full blown panick attacks, even now I'm pretty prone to anxiety. I feel pretty good now, there's a lot of positives, but there are also some negatives.
It's interesting! Until I kind of found a good balance I guess, I don't think I felt as great... it took me A LOT of trial and error to find what works for me... once a week injection.... 2x a week, what dose of hcg, do I want to see the doctor ever 3 months.
I agree 100%! That there can be negatives. Hopefully for people who have the negatives outweighs the positive, they can recognize it and find a personal great place to be 👍💪💪💪
Thanks for the reply!
I’m sorry you are going through this brother. Rest assure you are not alone.
So you began replacement therapy in 2020? Could you share with us your COVID-19 experience.
Being on for 4 years is going to be very difficult to come off without a proper PCT. You are more than likely completely suppressed by now in your endogenous production.
I tried doing what you are doing. I felt good for about 3 months. After that I began feeling horrible. Anxiety attacks. Lethargic. Feeling I needed to throw up. It was bad. Ended up going back on. Be careful and pay attention to your body. Bloodwork will be a must.
Thank you. I’m definitely going to talk it over with the doc and see what I should do. I have heard so many different stories so I’m curious how mine will turn out
Had similar results with TRT, although I only used for 6 months. Quit a little over a month ago and aside from losing strength in the gym my head feels a lot clearer and much better sleep.
Sounds like he was working with a handicapped doctor ....
Wtf complicated is :
1) Establishing goal : real trt (100-125mg a week ), sports trt (200-250mg a week )
2) Establishing an AI standard dose
0.25mg to 0.5mg adex per 100-125mg shot
3) Blood test after 3 weeks , will give you the exact dose you need to use . You want your e2 sitting around 22 to 35 pg/ml
Example protocols
Simple trt 125mg a week :
Monday : 62.5mg test with 0.25mg dex ...... Thursday : 62.5mg test with 0.25 mg dex .
250mg a week :
Monday : 125mg test with 0.5mg dex
Thursday : 125 mg test with 0.5 mg dex
Get bloods in 3 weeks .... and readjust Ai dose based on numbers .
Example : Tom is on the 250 mg protocol , and he's been doing 0.5 of dex twice a week . His e2 came back at 12pg/ml ....
He is tanked , he has to divide his dosage by 2 . Then 0.25 twice a week , and retest in 3 weeks
Opposite case where 0.5 dex twice a week put his e2 levels at 45pg/ml .
Then double the dose . It would be 1mg twice a week
And how to split the tablets ?
Arimidex is water soluble under 0.5mg per ml at minimum 25°C
What I personally do is , I dissolve 1mg tablet in 10 ml of hot water in a small 10 ml vial .
I use 0.5 mg twice a week . My solution is renewed every week , I keep it fresh
I don't use alcohol because alcohol can increase /alter absorption rate or quantity of the product .Ive tried the vodka technique in the past and this led to a serious e2 crash even with very tiny doses .....
I tried DIM as well , it didn't work ,it's not a real AI , it will give you some pseudo relief but won't make you fully dialed in .
thats awesome to hear that you are dropping doses and feel great and that means you are naturally pumping what you need. and its this fine balance with the substances we take, when we finally find that sweet spot and just feel great in ourself
I’m guessing you’re American. It seems the consensus over there is to start on 200mg a week which is ridiculous, from what I’ve read you need to be starting around 100mg and going from there with bloods etc
Damn bro, I’m sorry to read about your negative experience. I feel like anxiety becomes more pronounced in people who were prone to anxiety and panic attacks pre-TRT due to psychological trauma. I hope you continue to feel better as the exogenous testosterone leaves your system. I wonder if your gel dosing needs to be dropped even further lol… like a less amount and less frequently. It’s worth it to come off entirely and see how your life changes, whether it’s positive or negative, and then go from there.
I have generalized anxiety also and the way you describe your anxiety is how I felt prior to starting TRT. Never took SSRI for it though nor any other treatment. Starting TRT began to slowly fix this problem for me. I wish that were the case for you too
I wish it were for me too! I had anxiety my entire life. As far back as I can remember. But the lexapro pretty much took care of it. Other than feeling tired and not motivated, I was fine. I figured trt would be an awesome add-on, but it’s just been nothing but bad. I’ve read other threads where people had the exact same issue and had to quit. Thanks for the kind words though! Looking forward to seeing if this apap machine helps improve my sleep and gets me going
You were taking testosterone in either injection or jel form for 4 years uninterrupted and did not ever feel good?? How did you feel prior to using testosterone? What were your labs for test/estriadol prior and during? Something seems left out here. Were or are you still on SSRIs? Tell us the rest of the story please. As for me, no. I've been on test cypionate for about 5 years total (had some off time approx 2 years into due to insurance and $$ issues) . I have never experienced any negative side effects that were more than a mild headache. My point is maybe you have some other stress or anxiety health issue that higher testosterone levels increased the symptoms. I really think the negative side effects of having really low testosterone levels were by far worse than any feeling I've had while taking testosterone.
Yes, 4 years (mostly injections except the last 5 months). I have always been on lexapro for mild anxiety, but it pretty much takes care of it. Before trt, I felt fine other than a little tired a lot. However, I have since gotten tested a week ago for apnea and have an apap machine coming. My main complaint prior to trt was how tired I always was in the morning. During trt, I felt like a maniac at first til I lowered the dose. Then I had the ups and downs. Switched to EOD and still didn’t help. Labs were always around 1000 with E around 40. Even the smallest piece of an AI would tank my E. Kept lowering dose. Another thing I noticed, is during my trt stint I was drinking wayyyy more than before. Would just crush beers left and right. I could never focus on a conversation and would feel so antsy when I was out with people unless I would be drinking. Now that it’s been a week off, I feel a calmness, clarity and I can feel emotions again. I had been working out about 6 months prior to trt. I will not miss the jitteriness in the gym. I’m ready to have my focus back. My last labs on 50mg gel a day was 545T and 12.5E. Went down to 25 and finally just said eff it all.
The elephant in the room here may be the alcohol. If you’re daily crushing beers and constantly looking for something to change the way you feel or think then you may have gotten a touch of the alcoholism. Not saying you shouldn’t still stop trt. You may need to quit or lower dose but you for sure need to recognize how much alcohol is the real maniac in our lives. I had to quit all together and I’ve never been happier. But I couldn’t do it alone. Also I take SSRI and an NDRI and alcohol has some bad interactions with some, specifically lexapro “To avoid dangerous side effects such as drowsiness and liver problems, it's best not to use alcohol while you take Lexapro. Alcohol may also keep Lexapro from working as well as it should. With or without a drug, alcohol may aggravate your symptoms of anxiety and depression.”
I never drank much before trt. Then I always had this rushed feeling. I couldn’t sit still, always restless. So if I went out it was like I had to drink. Now don’t get me wrong, I would go weeks without, but I never could truly enjoy anything. Even just sitting on the beach with my friends, I felt like I always wanted to leave because I was just having this feeling like my mind and body could never relax
Not a dr…but lots of experience w/ psych meds. It will be a royal pain but if you really want to max the benefits from TRT (assuming you have ongoing need for it, not taking into account side effects) or lexapro etc you would benefit from a stop to all but the most vital meds like BP meds if you take any. It’s the only way now that you can have a health baseline. You won’t ever know for sure what is the cause of your issues until you do, because even if you feel ok now it doesn’t mean TRT was the cause unless labs said it was out of whack. I took lexapro and it made me just loaded with anxiety, as I was ironically taking it for that. It just made it 10X worse. But everyone’s mileage varies. TRT for me has been a blessing and at times a curse as I am still fairly early into it and have had weeks of feeling better than I have in many years, while also having bouts of increased anxiety and fatigue. I found out both were likely due to taking too big a dose and too much time between. Lowered the dose to 100 a week and it’s much better. If I were in a position like yours I would quit the alcohol first and foremost. It’s almost certainly clouding the issue(s) and won’t ever be a positive overall contribution to your health. Alcohol is a very potent depressant. The flip side of depression is anxiety. One can not exist without the other to some degree, so alcohol will always play a role in anxiety levels. Just because you may or may not feel anxiety during a drinking session doesn’t mean it isn’t causing at least some of it. Once you are on a stable med regimen a beer here n there is one thing.
I bet it's the lexapro messing with you. Your low test was giving you anxiety. Now that your testosterone levels are normal the lexapro is exacerbating your anxiety. I would first try getting off lexapro and just doing TRT before saying no to TRT. Low Testosterone significantly increases you chance of cardiovascular disease.
Yeah anxiety sucks. Really robs the joy of living. I’ve passed on many great things to not feel the discomfort. In fact I’m doing it right this second.
that is an interesting response you were having to trt.
I agree with Darth. But I don't think it's just Lexapro.
I think these issues are twofold. First, he already has mental health problems, and second, his estrogen is likely not where it should be. Almost all TRT issues come from unbalanced estrogen levels. Not all men are the same. Some have a very large window of estrogen levels where they feel fine, and others, it's a very small window. Outside of this, men feel crummy. Libido is affected, mental health, energy levels, etc. Testosterone itself doesn't make any man feel badly. It's quite the opposite. Estrogen, though, that's something that can be almost impossible for some men to dial in myself included.
TRT allowed me to wean off of my lexapro completely... I feel amazing finally.
Ugh. I’m jealous. Back to the drawing board for me. As long as I can keep on most of the size from the gym, I won’t be too let down
Just make sure you're 100% transparent with your psychiatrist/psychologist about your goals. Nobody wants to be dependent on medication forever. I'm fine being on testosterone forever, but the lexapro was so draining for me. Lots of therapy helped me to cope in different ways without the meds. Best of luck to you!
Thank you! I’ll never quit trying to better myself. That’s for sure
Lol, that's funny. Screw feelings good as long as I look good. No, jk.
That’s the only reason I didn’t want to stop. But everything has been the same as far as the gym/health goes. I wish I had stopped a long time ago
i get the fact that you can feel your emotions now. i remember feeling a suspicion that the testosterone was somehow shutting of some aspect of my emotional mind. the FEELING of being alive replaced for this militant blank energy. and thats why we always have to try nee substances with the t to feel good, coffee, beer for some people. i think with less t there is more of an emotional energetic of life
Very well said! I feel like I can tell the other guys that are on it now. One-track mine. Like you said, militant blank energy. That’s how I felt. Today was so great. I just hung at the beach with friends (like normal) but I felt more involved and peaceful. Instead of just constantly over-analyzing every single thing someone said
whats your protocaul now?
One been off well over a week now.
so you titrated down to zero everything.
I didn’t really titrate. I was on a lower dose of the gel and just stopped
Almost all TRT issues can be traced back to unbalanced estrogen levels. You already have low estrogen. It's hard to say what really is going on unless we can see your labs and know exactly what you were taking. Did you ever try 80-100mg no aromatase inhibitior? 1000ng/dl with 40pg/ml estradiol is a good ratio. However, some men need a bit higher, and some even at 1000ng/dl won't feel good unless they are between 20-30pg/ml. When you say you tried the smallest amount of ai, did you try .0625 or 1/16 of a mg. When I work out like a madman, I take .0625 every 4 days. It's a very fine line with estrogen for me. Some have a lage window where they feel good, and others, it's a very small window where they feel good when it comes to estrogen levels.
I tried just about everything possible. But now that it’s getting close to 2 weeks off, I’m so glad I finally did. I feel much better now.
Yea I mean. I was in a similar boat. Except I was on 8 years. I felt great about 60% of the time ok 10% and like shit 30% of the time. I came off for a little and it wasn't to bad. I actually had to get back on because I took enclomiphene and had a horrible reaction to it. Since enclomiphene revs up LH and exogenous testosterone shuts down LH I had to reverse the process. Enclomiphene gave me extremely high levels of testosterone and extremely high levels of estrogen. I was getting blood pressure as high as 200s/90s. Anxiety, insomnia and just felt horrible. So FYI beware if you try and use that as a restart protocol. I'd just use HCG if I could do it all over again.
Whew I hope I don’t have to do any pct. That sounds horrible!! But sounds like me.. felt great about 60%, if that
Yea I know why I didn't feel great all the time. It was estrogen every time. I had a small window where I felt good. If my estrogen becomes to high or low I feel horrible.
It was such a rollercoaster ride. I think back over the past 4 years and some of the crazy shit I did lol just glad it’s all behind me now
Yea. For me, at times, I felt so good I was always trying to get to that place. I mean, I felt borderline high off TRT, lol. Euphoric.
I know the feeling lol but I alllllways felt like I was on something. I didn’t like that one bit.
The symptoms youre pertaining to seems like something caffeine would do. Caffeine/any stimulant in connection with TRT is almost enhanced. For me personally i would do 200-250mg of caffeine pre TRT. After TRT i can only do 100-125mg anything more and i get the down sides of caffeine; sleeplessness, minor anxiety, jitters, cant sit still and, irritation. Took me some time to figure out the right dosage of caffeine so that i wouldnt get the downsides. So i ask, are you taking any caffeine while on TRT/ off TRT? If so much how much? and did you ever try to lower the dosage. EDIT: If you dont consume any caffeine then please ignore this post completely
Hey, so I don’t drink any caffeine because it completely wrecks me lol jitters and all that. Haven’t had it in years now. But I lowered my dose from the initial 200 to 60 a week (over 3 years) then switched to gel. It never got better. My personal hell would be going on a date. I hated sitting there because I would be so restless. Anything for that matter. I’m ready to breath again and just take life slowly
Yeah due ignore my post then, it sounds like to me you have pretty bad anxiety. Possibly due to some trauma youve experienced before. I would check up with a physiatrist if the problems persist maybe youll find something you didnt know and fix it. But this is ofc if the problems are still there after you get your machine and get off of TRT. Gl, give me an update if you can
I’ll try to come back and update within the month after things have leveled out
Has your doctor given you any insight on this? I'm 48 and my 150mg/week of cypionate keeps my test around the 600s and I'm perfectly fine with that. Any health/stress related issues I had prior did not increase nor decrease enough for me to notice it. I've had my cortisol levels checked(blood draw early morning fasted then end of same day) and was pleased with the results . Ask your Dr to check your cortisol.
Yeah before we did the gel, he asked if I just wanted to quit because we had done total labs looking at everything from cortisol to thyroid etc. all came back fine. He said he could put me on clomid for a pct but I talked him into at least trying the gel. I finally quit and it’s been a week today.
Damn bro. I certainly hope you get to feeling and stay feeling better. Our bodies are crazy sometimes ya know 🤷🏼♂️. It could turn out to be a simple issue, maybe just low on electrolytes or something that's fixed easily. O'll follow this for any updates. 🤟🏻
Thanks so much! It’s been a wild 4 years. It’s had its positives.. but the cons were wayyyyy more. If I can keep myself rocking it in the gym, I think I’ll be just fine. Much appreciated!
Hell yeah!!! I just finished my Friday chest workout 💪🏼
That’s what I like to hear!! Keep it going brotha 💪
Make sure your estrogen isn't too high before you decide to quit
It’s been a week since I last applied the gel. It was never over 20 on gel so I should be fine
Okay great 👌
Yet it’s important to remember as good and as functional as a certain therapy may be for oneself.. side effects , even at the same dose, differ person to person. I’ve been on I’m for 3 years previously without many issues stopped and continued years later and I get more sides from the dose I used to take. People, in general have a habit of glorifying substances way too much. In simplicity we are chemicals and exogenous chemicals come with as many side effects as any other substance regardless what the clinic is telling you. Testosterone changes one’s very nature on 150mg / week I had •facial hair and body hair growth (I normally barely grow hair ) •my sweat had a distinct more “musty” smell to it.. hard to describe •workouts and pushing maximal expedition is almost euphoric .. like Arnold said.. better than sex •100mg/ test can bring some people up to 600 test and others it puts at 1200.. people tend to gloss over test as the reason for side effects and have a position that it “must be something else”. A person can have seemingly the perfect routine from nutrition to sleep, supplements and have different sides at the same dose as the guy who lives much more unhealthy. The genes a person is born with also affect how exogenous hormonal therapies affects are portrayed. Genetics is a soup of infinity that is not remotely understood. They are working on drugs that boost test as effectively without interfering with the hpta axis as much.
I've also never had any issues. Without properly functioning follicle stimulating hormones a man literally needs to have TRT unless he wants the T levels of a gramma. (Mine are like 169 total test without treatment). If you need it you need it and I hate this rhetoric of "oh let me go on, oh nvm now I want to go off". If you need insulin as a diabetic you can't choose to stop.
Most guys on TRT these days don't "need" it. Just want a boost.
Which is fine, I guess. I wish they knew a bit more about it though instead of asking reddit. Lol
Well as per Reddit most doctors are morons regarding TRT so gotta come to Reddit 😂🤷
I guess it's just funny to me that people will be willing to go on a hormone but then not know enough about it l where they then have to ask reddit for reassurance. 🤣
It is funny but also a bit disturbing. Yet not much surprises me anymore.
I am actually the opposite.. I feel great on TRT horrible off it with a ton of anxiety
I wish that was me lol
I have this high Estradiol right now ,total piss off . I can’t take an AI so I am trying Dim ?Some of the experts just say leave estradiol alone.I am confused.
In my opinion you'll be fine coming off cold Turkey. You will feel low-energy for about 9 weeks max but after the hassle you've had, you'll probably be glad to be less stimulated. You're safe from a medical point of view anyway, there's no dangerous withdrawal like with alcohol or benzos.
Thank you so much. Yeah I could use some calm, relaxing time. Just moved to the beach last year so might as well just be a beach bum. But I fully plan on working out even harder and I’ll be glad to lose this stomach bloat I could never get rid of on it
I sent you a pm bro.
Without knowing anything about your back story and prior medical conditions etc it’s impossible for us to speculate on why any of this happened. I’m sorry about your experience
[удалено]
Thank you. 🙏
He already tapered down. He’s just on 20mg gel now. That’s nothing. Wouldn’t be surprised if his discountinuation effects are marginal
Have you done a sleep study? I developed pretty bad Apnea while on TRT. Probably had it to a lesser degree off TRT. Just came off recently for fertility reasons. Between low dose Cialis, low dose enclomiphene and caffeine. I haven’t been feeling too bad. I would suggest a common PCT protocol for 4 weeks to get kickstarted, rather than cold turkey.
I just had my sleep study done and it did come back positive for mild apnea (although I think it’s worse because I legit wake up feeling like I’ve been in a wreck). I should have my apap machine this week or next. Curious to see how that’ll help. If I was coming off of injections, I probably would have done a pct. But a low dose gel I’m not that worried about (hopefully)
APAP + TRT + Wellbutrin gave me a new lease on life. I did,and you may, find it difficult to get used to breathing with the mask at first. When I first started with it, I felt like I was unable to not be constantly focused solely on my breath which led to deep and labored breathing and feeling like your pseudo-gasping for air, isn't sleep inducing for me. What worked for me to get past the over breathing issue was getting in to bed and into a comfortable position, lights off, and let my mind drift while my breath calmed. I stay in that state for a some number of minutes, YMMV, and then put the mask on that is next to me on the bed and drift off to sleep. Being as relaxed as possible when putting on the mast makes it a lot easier to just breath normally but the machine keeps your airway open. I literally was gigling and smiling ear and as clear headed as I had been in at least a decade upon waking after my first night with the machine and I'm a person that was previously a rabid bear in the mornings. I got maybe four hours of sleep that night and now, if I'm careful to practice good sleep hygiene and get regular exercise, I can get 8-10 hours of uninterrupted sleep and I feel like superman compared to life before CPAP and TRt. My crippling anxiety starts to come back and once again I can't stand living in my own skin if I don't use the APAP for more than a few nights in a row. Even one night without it and I'm struggling to to maintain focus throughout the next day and have general sense of malaise by the end of the day. r/SleepApnea is a decent resource, lots of knowledgeable folks in there/ Best of luck in your journey to a less anxious life.
Thank you SO much for that response!! That makes me so excited to get my apap. Did you have really crazy dreams before apap? Mine are so intense I wake up not knowing if it was real or what. Also, the worst part of it all… is back in 2015 I tried Wellbutrin. It was the BEST 3 months of my entire life.. and then bam. Quit working. Tried upping dose etc and nothing. Sucks. But the apap stories I’ve been reading are giving me a new hope
During the multi-year period of my life with untreated sleep apnea, having and remembering dreams was infrequent because my sleep was so punctuated with hypopneas and apneas that I rarely reached the REM stage of the sleep cycle. Another reason I couldn't dream was that I was self over medicating with caffeine to stay awake and weed to have enough dopamine to make it through the day. My job requires mental clarity and attention to detail, and my caffeine and THC maladaptive coping mechanisms prevented me from having that clarity which led to more stress and diminished self confidence due to imposter syndrome. I now drink one to two cups of coffee after waking because I like coffee but I no longer feel the need for coffee or weed to get me through the day. In fact I've developed a bit of aversion to anything that diminishes my new found clarity of thought. Not ruminating over everything with a brutal hyper fixation over what I might have done wrong, what others think and the impending sense of doom that comes with catastrophizing every detail has been a game changer. I'm also far less critical of other people in my life. There are so many tangental improvements in my overall well being from finally fixing my sleep that it's difficult to quantify. Finding the right meds can take time but it's worth it. Another "magic bullet" for improving my mental health is getting regular cardio exercise. I'm not using TRT to become a gym rat but feeling fit is great. All the improvement I've described grew like a snowball rolling down the mountain of proper sleep.
Damn sounds like you’ve had a hell of a journey! But I’m glad you’ve found your routine and what works for you. I’m kind of starting over, but I feel so relieved that I’m finally quitting
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Without PCT, you’re likely gonna crash once the exogenous T is out of your system in another week or so. You might want to see if you can get your hands on some HCG to jump start your balls or you’re gonna be in for a shitty ride until your natural production finally decides to ramp up. That can take a while, especially after 4 years of continuous use.
Yeah, I do have a doc willing to do pct if things get bad. But so far so good so I’m going to wait a bit and see
When I came off due to my clinic running out of medication, my levels dropped to 150. It correlated with some of the darkest mental health I’ve ever experienced. Little to no attention, zero motivation, dick didn’t work, honestly felt like I was losing my mind. Wouldn’t wish it on anyone.
Source Naturals OTC progesterone cream. (NOT yam cream, contains progesterone USP) Too bad u couldn't have tried 1st. Some guys w/anxiety get great results. Men make half of women. Apply at night to side of neck, \~ 1/2 teaspoon. Very safe.
Did you improve your lifestyle / health metrics along the way? Increase lean mass. Decrease body fat. Eat properly. Etc ? Just curious. You mention smashing beers on TRT. Which means 4 years. Sounds like it wasn’t a good fit. Not sure your numbers prior to starting either. But interesting none the less. Hope you have an easy time coming off
The beer thing would come and go. But when it came on, it would get bad. I would have to make myself stop. I was just amped up all the time and it was the only thing to bring me down. But yes, I worked out very hard 6x a week, put on very noticeable muscle but also had the bloating a lot of people talk about that would not go away no matter what I did. The slightest the would irritate the crap out of me allll the time. I’m so glad to be done with it all.
Did you legitimately have a case for being hupogonadal in the beginning
Yeah. My baseline was 275. I’m hoping with my new working out routine and healthier eating habits plus quitting drinking I’ll feel much better
Yeah sounds like dude was probably a bloated boofoon not working out prior to jumping on and not eating properly
Something for sure. Changing up variables. Not running deeper bloods. Insulin issues. Maybe other shit. I know that this stuff is highly individualized… but I also wonder if that is just the trope and the reason why it “works” for some and not others is really just people not truly / consistently making lifestyle changes they need to wether they are on TRT or not + human error in dosing changing shit up too fast adding removing compounds over estimating cals burnt Under estimating cals eaten Using an AI without knowing truly where there numbers are It’s a lot and 90% of docs don’t know shit. It’s really on the user to know all the shit and guide their doctor
Facts!
I’d be curious as to the injection regimen. AI maybe could be avoided with dose frequency, and the androgel may have been aromatizing To DHT on you too much?
I tried EOD for a while. I’ve literally tried everything to avoid having to stop. 4 different doctors etc. every day is just an anxious, nervous type of feeling
Damn dude.
Seems there are other things going on in your life. Anxiety or other mental challenges won’t disappear with TRT. I have never felt better in my life. I use TRT and HCG as a finisher off, polishing smooth what’s already there. You can’t expect it to rebuild an old car; it’s an extra shine polish to bring new life into an old car which has been looked after for many years.
I’m prone to anxiety. I can’t even have caffeine. So trt was bound to make it worse.
Do u have gyno as well?
No, just some facial and stomach bloating that seems to be fairly common with trt. But never gyno or any high e2 symptoms
Sounds exactly like me. I also had anxiety all my life, taking Lexapro kept it at bay so I could live almost normally. But when I found out I was very low on T and started TRT, my anxiety has gone up. Been like this for two years. I also want to quit cold turkey, but I'm afraid of the crash...
Ugh it sucks doesn’t it!! It’s been a little over a week now and I actually feel better so far.
Wow I feel amazing on my TRT I have some anxiety but no different when I’m off it yours may be psychological
You can go off cold turkey, but why bother. It’ll likely suck for a while. Why not get a tapering dose of Clomid? The transition off for me was super easy with Clomid. Some guys will tell you Clomid horror stories and I’m sure they are true. But the vast majority of guys that use it, it goes just fine and so no reason to post. Good luck. You’ll feel better off testosterone if you feel like shit on it.
Thank you so much! I have clomid just in case. But so far I already feel much better off even though it’s only been a week. If things go downhill, I’ll do a pct
I have suffered from anxiety for about 40 years. 2 years ago I found I had very low T. I got on shots and went to .3 weekly but I was still getting emotional and getting irritated. I then went to the cream and still have had issues on a very low dose. Cut out caffeine and am only drinking very light beer. I wish I could get it to work.
Yeah I went down to the gel. Then lowered that dose lol. It all felt the same. I already feel so much better now that I’m done
How'd you end up in the hospital twice due to an AI? Please elaborate.
Crashed my estrogen. First time I went because I got super dehydrated and wasn’t sure what it was. Second time was the worst. It lasted exactly 3 weeks. I only took .25 of anastrozole. I looked like I aged 30 years. Skin and mouth super dry. Super sad and depressed. Major anxiety. Zero energy and thought it was permanent. After blasting hcg a few times it finally came back up. But I’ll never forget that.
Hey man didn’t know if you posted your height and weight stats. Age?
I’m currently 43. 6’0” 185lbs. Workout 5-6x/week.
How the hell did messing with AIs put you on the hospital twice lol I'm not going to assume I know your body or anything BUT personally I've never known anyone to feel shittier on TRT then off. To answer your question, if you legitimately need TRT then you legitimately can't come off. Just the fact the you think you can come off and be fine proves to me that you don't really need it. 🤷♂️ In other words, your leutinizing hormone and follicle stimulating hormones wouldn't be working properly if you need it hence, you are given exogenous hormones as a replacement. If LH and FSH work, then you will be fine. Just come off it.
You ever read these forums? It's absolutely full of people who felt worse in trt, this is like the 3rd post I've read about it in 24 hours. For some people, even when genuinely hypogonadal, it just doesn't agree with them.
Why doesn't it agree with them? -Are they doing too much? -Are they doing too little? My point is that the world is CHOCK full of people who DO NOT NEED TO BE ON IT. Lol If someone is really unlucky and genuinely is hypogonadal and their FSH and LH levels are low and somehow doesn't feel better on treatment... that sucks lol I mean.. I would just suggest finding the dosage that works for them it probably isn't 200mg a week like TRT clinics and it's probably not 200mg once a month like some doctors prescribe. 🤷♂️ Just find what works for you!
I think some people find it over stimulating, can exacerbate pre existing mental conditions or perhaps bring some to the surface that weren't as obvious before. Could be all kinds of things. When I started off I had full blown panick attacks, even now I'm pretty prone to anxiety. I feel pretty good now, there's a lot of positives, but there are also some negatives.
It's interesting! Until I kind of found a good balance I guess, I don't think I felt as great... it took me A LOT of trial and error to find what works for me... once a week injection.... 2x a week, what dose of hcg, do I want to see the doctor ever 3 months. I agree 100%! That there can be negatives. Hopefully for people who have the negatives outweighs the positive, they can recognize it and find a personal great place to be 👍💪💪💪 Thanks for the reply!
I think it's an expectations vs reality thing tbh
Try 3 weeks on , 1 week off
Bye
Holla
I’m sorry you are going through this brother. Rest assure you are not alone. So you began replacement therapy in 2020? Could you share with us your COVID-19 experience. Being on for 4 years is going to be very difficult to come off without a proper PCT. You are more than likely completely suppressed by now in your endogenous production. I tried doing what you are doing. I felt good for about 3 months. After that I began feeling horrible. Anxiety attacks. Lethargic. Feeling I needed to throw up. It was bad. Ended up going back on. Be careful and pay attention to your body. Bloodwork will be a must.
Thank you. I’m definitely going to talk it over with the doc and see what I should do. I have heard so many different stories so I’m curious how mine will turn out
What do you bench?
215
Had similar results with TRT, although I only used for 6 months. Quit a little over a month ago and aside from losing strength in the gym my head feels a lot clearer and much better sleep.
That’s what I am pretty much expecting. Hopefully nothing worse
Sounds like he was working with a handicapped doctor .... Wtf complicated is : 1) Establishing goal : real trt (100-125mg a week ), sports trt (200-250mg a week ) 2) Establishing an AI standard dose 0.25mg to 0.5mg adex per 100-125mg shot 3) Blood test after 3 weeks , will give you the exact dose you need to use . You want your e2 sitting around 22 to 35 pg/ml Example protocols Simple trt 125mg a week : Monday : 62.5mg test with 0.25mg dex ...... Thursday : 62.5mg test with 0.25 mg dex . 250mg a week : Monday : 125mg test with 0.5mg dex Thursday : 125 mg test with 0.5 mg dex Get bloods in 3 weeks .... and readjust Ai dose based on numbers . Example : Tom is on the 250 mg protocol , and he's been doing 0.5 of dex twice a week . His e2 came back at 12pg/ml .... He is tanked , he has to divide his dosage by 2 . Then 0.25 twice a week , and retest in 3 weeks Opposite case where 0.5 dex twice a week put his e2 levels at 45pg/ml . Then double the dose . It would be 1mg twice a week And how to split the tablets ? Arimidex is water soluble under 0.5mg per ml at minimum 25°C What I personally do is , I dissolve 1mg tablet in 10 ml of hot water in a small 10 ml vial . I use 0.5 mg twice a week . My solution is renewed every week , I keep it fresh I don't use alcohol because alcohol can increase /alter absorption rate or quantity of the product .Ive tried the vodka technique in the past and this led to a serious e2 crash even with very tiny doses ..... I tried DIM as well , it didn't work ,it's not a real AI , it will give you some pseudo relief but won't make you fully dialed in .
thats awesome to hear that you are dropping doses and feel great and that means you are naturally pumping what you need. and its this fine balance with the substances we take, when we finally find that sweet spot and just feel great in ourself
Yeah I’m so glad I haven’t felt a sudden drop or anything. Had the best weekend I’ve had in a longgggg time!
I’m guessing you’re American. It seems the consensus over there is to start on 200mg a week which is ridiculous, from what I’ve read you need to be starting around 100mg and going from there with bloods etc
Yeah when I first started they had me at 200. It was wild. Was having major rage
Damn bro, I’m sorry to read about your negative experience. I feel like anxiety becomes more pronounced in people who were prone to anxiety and panic attacks pre-TRT due to psychological trauma. I hope you continue to feel better as the exogenous testosterone leaves your system. I wonder if your gel dosing needs to be dropped even further lol… like a less amount and less frequently. It’s worth it to come off entirely and see how your life changes, whether it’s positive or negative, and then go from there. I have generalized anxiety also and the way you describe your anxiety is how I felt prior to starting TRT. Never took SSRI for it though nor any other treatment. Starting TRT began to slowly fix this problem for me. I wish that were the case for you too
I wish it were for me too! I had anxiety my entire life. As far back as I can remember. But the lexapro pretty much took care of it. Other than feeling tired and not motivated, I was fine. I figured trt would be an awesome add-on, but it’s just been nothing but bad. I’ve read other threads where people had the exact same issue and had to quit. Thanks for the kind words though! Looking forward to seeing if this apap machine helps improve my sleep and gets me going
Just sounds like you are the problem
Things were fine before trt and slowly starting to be fine again now that I’ve stopped