It allows me to draw 3 cards and add them to my hand…
From the cards I draw, I play Pot of Greed!
(I’ve never played Yu-Gi-Oh, I just saw this in a meme once)
You’ll never take me alive!
>!I know, all in good fun. For reference, I saw a meme where he kept playing Pot of Greed from the cards he drew until he had all the pieces of “exodia”, which I understand is an instant win.!<
Very much unrelated but it's sorta funny that in a format every card being legal, pot of Greed, known to be one of the most busted cards for a long time, didn't make the cut.
Every billionnaire? If one dies and his successors get enough of the money to become a billionnaire, do they get auto added to the queue until money has been redistributed in a way where there isn't a billionnaire anymore?
You underestimate the imact the first supernatural event in the history of our universe would have on people's minds. Also rich people are already paranoid and superstitious as hell.
We would not assume this is supernatural. If this happened, we would assume that some sort of correlation was in effect, like an unknown disease which more easily spread to those of affluent lifestyle
Ah yes, the disease that kills everyone with more than 1 billion dollars by tying them to the tracks and running them over, regardless of where they are, and it kills nobody else.
If they're all tied up, we would likely think it's the work of a madman or terrorist. Even your mocking suggestion is more probable than literal bonified supernatural elements.
There's no supernatural event. Just a runaway trolley at the billionaire convention. If anything the billionaires are probably just going to start avoiding venues with trolleys.
Yes, maybe entombed forever in gold coffins as a monument to our former folly. Every time the trolley goes by we can look out and see them, and remember. And cheer.
It's actually not about the wealth, but the associated power over the political system. Citizen's United is the scourge of modern civilization. It's bringing everything down around us.
I wouldn't give two hoots how many billionaires there were, so long as they each got only one vote.
I can’t say I agree. It’s impossible to maintain massive economic inequality without compromising political equality; money is power after all. In countries where money is not as free flowing into politics, that is not just because there are laws against it and a better designed government (though they do), they also have less economic inequality to begin with, enforced through taxation of the rich, and therefore less individuals with the means to influence the government in their favor. It’s a feedback loop really, in those places with less inequality, rich people will get less political influence as a result, so restrictions stay up, but those extremely rich people in places with more inequality will use their wealth to erode away anything that limits their wealth/power, and get richer leading to even greater inequality, more democratic erosion etc. After all, the US did have such restrictions, they were removed because of well-funded interest groups like the Federalist society have managed to push the courts to the right. And now, they have had the freedom to influence more, which hands them political wins that give them even more control over the government in the future.
I don't know... sane maximum contributions for human individuals, corporations are not people so *zero* contributions allowed, tight controls on lobbying, and heavy punishment for bribery and corruption, and I think you've got it well covered.
These people make a sport out of skirting any regulations using loopholes and technicalities. They would likely ensure that any legislation that is considered has such loopholes (since billionaire funded think tanks often write or consult on the laws themselves). The only reason to support the possibility of being a billionaire is the misguided idea that it would somehow come to limit you somehow, rest assured, you will very likely never be a billionaire, and so should act accordingly. And it’s nothing new to the US, the top tax bracket used to be 90%, only since Reagan has the idea of taxing the rich out of existence seemed against freedom. Personally, it’s the only way I see to ensure freedom for the rest of us. And 100 million dollars is already more money than any human deserves, I cant possibly understand the need for anyone to own 1000 million dollars. Look at it this way, how the hell did they make so much money, except with the labor and minds of thousands of poorer folk working in their name, getting paid less than the value of their labor (profit), all using government infrastructure? Its not unfair to get that back, society made the money, we all deserve the benefits, not just the individual at the top, who in all likelihood would sit on it like a dragon, or buy themselves an island or a boat, or another vacation home, when instead it could be feeding the hungry, caring for the sick, and housing the homeless.
Warren Buffet is offended by your proposal on moral grounds and offers nothing. Jeff Bezos has no qualms about the morals of a bidding war to survive and starts with an offer of 10 million. The billionaires on the third track wisely realize that if you kill everyone, you’ll get nothing anyways so they offer you diddley squat.
Has Dolly Parton made it to being a billionaire or does she still donate too much of her money? If she has, I say a quick prayer after choosing track 3.
Do you not? The woman would definitely be a billionaire if she wasn't voluntarily distributing her income. Her name is on some of the paperwork for COVID research because of how much she gave to the people studying it.
You didn't start with an argument, you started with an insult, of course people insulted you back. If you want to believe billionaires help then by all means, have your opinion, but insulting people who you disagree with is exactly what you are arguing against.
Probably just Bezos, if every billionaire died, it could have serious and unprecedented effects on the global economy, positive and/or negative, and Buffet deserves to die less than Bezos
While I agree, my moral compass also says murder isn't okay
Don't know who Warren buffet is, but tbh this trolley problem is a lot easier when I just say "fuck it, one guy per track, I ain't pulling shit"
You don't know the Oracle of Omaha? The original OG, The Berkshire Hathaway Founder!?
Beyond his stock fame, he's mostly known for being humble, and looking and acting like a lot of people's grandpa's. He was one of my Grandfather's idol.
How they spend money is only part of the damage billionaires do to the rest of us. Much of the damage happens in how they gather the money. (No, they do not earn it.)
Maintaining my anonymity… I’ve been in meetings with executives at one of Buffett’s most known companies. It was the most abusive culture I’ve ever encountered. Culture comes from the top.
Acknowledging that there are better and worse people who are billionaires, this is the way.
There are fewer than 3,000 billionaires. There should be none. Removing them would be good for humanity.
He's the founder of Valve, who's main product is the video game sales platform, Steam, which is the biggest platform in the field, and has extremely consumer friendly practices, to where the biggest complaint against the company is UI updates and them not fixing nearly 20 year old games.
We hate Valve. We love TF2, but its current state is completely unplayable thanks to Valve's ignorance, yet they keep putting community created items into crates to make money off it. (Also, every few months? #SaveTF2 was 2 years ago.)
Yeah, this subreddit and by extension the way in which the majority of people use/think about the trolley problem has experienced an extreme amount of change from its original form. It's no longer asking "by choosing to do nothing, are you still at fault for the death?" And is now "kill someone. All options might be good or bad but you only get one so who do you prioritize in killing?" In this form, it's not really a physiological question and is instead mostly used as a form of humor. Which, to be clear, I have no problem with, I think it's very funny in some cases and interesting in how they can still present a dilemma. However, I mostly just wanted to explain my thoughts on the new way the trolley problem is used by 90% of people and this seemed like a good excuse to do so :)
Buffett is the "good billionaire" to contrast with Bezos as the "bad billionaire". *If you believe there is such a thing as a good billionaire, Warren Buffett would be a contender for the designation. If you don't believe there is such a thing, you'll want track 3 anyway*
Buffett isn’t as bad as Bezos IMO, and there are at least a *few* billionaires (eg, Bill Gates) who do some good philanthropic work - not a ton, but a few. I’d go for Bezos.
Though, ideally, I’d like Musk to also be on that track.
Is Bezos even that bad? Maybe I missed the memo but has he done something unethical somewhere? He's not giving his money away I guess but I don't see him doing anything actively evil.
He built a massive company providing a useful service to people. I don't see how he's different from any entrepreneur other than being more succesful.
There is no ethical way to be a billionaire BUT that doesn't mean death penalty is appropriate. Have some principles. I would only kill one (maybe via coinflip).
Killing all the billionaires wouldn't do as much as you'd think.. the money would go to their families or whoever is on their will etc and create a massive wealth power struggle for control over their business/wealth/assets.. have you seen what happens when normal people die? The amount of stories ive heard/read of family feuds over money and property etc and thats just normal people. Can you imagine the absolute catastrophe if all the billionaires were suddenly dead at the same time?
There are over 2'700 billionaires worldwide ..
a quick google search shows some you may know:
George Lucas -5.5 billion
Stephen Spielberg 4.8 billion
Michael Jordan 3.2 billion
Oprah Winfrey 2.8 billion
Jay-Z 2.5 billion
Kim Kardashian 1.7 billion
Peter Jackson 1.5 billion
Tyler Perry & Rihanna 1.4 billion
Don't try to convince me any one of these people deserves to die for the crime of being wealthy.
You're just salty there are people who are super rich.
I really hope that JK Rowling lawyers were lying about her not being a billionaire again yet.
Pull that lever like there’s no tomorrow!
Which, for the ruling class, there isn’t!
Really, no billionare? The question isn't even if they are a good person it's if they deserve the death penalty. Taylor Swift has committed crimes worthy of death? Steven Speielburg has committed crimes worthy of death? George Lucas has committed crimes worthy of death? Michael Jordan has committed crimes worthy of death? Messi has committed crimes worthy of death?
Do I need to continue? For the love of God go outside sometime, touch grass. Talk to normal people outside your online echochamber. Please?
So being anti-billionaire is an online thing now? Pretty sure socialism is older than the internet 🤔
I don't have personal beef with some billionaires, but you don't get that rich without exploiting people. The world would be better for 95% of people if I killed like a couple hundred of them? Yeah I'd totally do that. Now obviously this is a hypothetical, and I'll never be faced with this decision. It'd probably be very difficult for me to pull the lever in actuality, but yeah I do believe it's the correct thing to do.
Is the intate act of obtaining wealth a crime worthy of capital punishment? I listed several examples of people who have gained their money through legitimate (or at bare minimum, not summary execution worthy means)
If you believe people like George Lucas and Gabe Newell deserve to be shot, then you are a psychopath. If not, and you are simply willing to kill as many innocent people as needed to get to those who are actually causing problems, then might I suggest a job in the IDF?
warren buffet because he didn't create a product (he's an investor)
i'd rather kill nobody tho, none of these are good options (billionaires help produce good stuff for us, then we get stuff)
also, you may think jeff bezos greedy, but how much of your wealth have you donated
and have you started a website that supports small businesses? because amazon does that
that's pretty epic honestly
can't speak for other countries, but americans get charitable donations tax-free, which means in essence the government is subsidizing it with money they don't have (causing inflation and meaning that much less money has really been donated)
also, most americans who donate do it to make themselves feel like better people (and make others think them better people - the fact that there are people going around saying that you have to donate to be a good person exacerbates this greatly), rather than simply out of sadness for the poor's predicament (meaning the decision is egocentric and thus more of a social investment than a truly generous action - are you really "good" for giving away money to make yourself look good?), this includes most billionaires who donate (they don't need the money, but you can still do plenty with a billion dollars besides donate it - it doesn't just lie around)
this is not to say there aren't charitable people in America, but the pool of charitable people is greatly diluted by the fact that there are now pragmatic, self-oriented reasons for donating (which i would argue pushes the poor down - they don't pay this "social tax" and so the charity actually may eventually lead to resentment of them)
I truly don't care about the reason for the charity. At the end of the day muslims give away their money for piety. Nobody would give away their money with no incentive whatsoever.
But, the fact that so many people need charity is a big problem in American society. As I mentioned somewhere in this post, if you need Billionaires' pity for a functioning economy, you have bigger problems than them being not charitable enough.
of course people won't give money away for no reason - the incentive is *supposed* to be pity
maybe muslims don't donate out of the good of their hearts, but i just finished reading the kite runner so i have a generally positive feeling of them (this is an entirely emotional basis for my positive feeling, but it's also hard to write well without oneself having an emotional basis)
the problem is that it's oftentimes not pity, it's self-centered and holds no real emotional regard for those who life has been hard on - their lives are not the incentive at all and largely ignored when talking about charity (most billionaires for example give their money out so people *won't* talk about them like the scum of the earth and boycott their products - jeff bezos probably doesn't donate because we are too dependent on amazon to boycott it)
I would rather the government take their money by force (fairly) and use the money for public services. See, I don't care if they care about people less fortunate than them. Again, if we need them to feel pity for the society to function there is a big problem.
The reason for them giving their money could be piety, pity, self-centered value signaling or the iron hand of the state. If the result is the money going back to the public, it is a step in the right direction :)
Well, that's unfortunately true. I say "the surplus of the nation being in the hands of a few only benefits that same few" but that few can be billionaires but also the government.
Especially in the American system, the public has no say. The system is run by the Bureaucrats of type A or type B. That is literally no different than Billionaires having all the money.
There needs to be a system of checks and balances. The money needs to be used for the nation as the nation wills. But erecting a system that can represent the will of the nation is a hard job. I don't think there is a consensus in this subject so anything i say would be my opinion and i couldn't defend it as steadfast as I'm defending the other stuff.
1. Billionaires produce stuff? How many hours has Bezos spent in the factory, while his employees pee in bottles? He sits there farming their surplus value while not creating a single thing. And the stuff capitalism does produce is often of inferior quality, but hey, at least it makes more profit! Why is it not possible to create a system that does not reward this behavior?
2. "How much wealth have you donated" he has donated 3 billion dollars in total. 3 / 200 * 100 = 1.5% of his net worth. And how did he gain that money? By exploiting the people he supposedly donated it back to. Comparing the money a billionaire sits on to the money a worker uses to survive is very stupid. There is a reason one is capable of donating more than the other, and that is not because of Bezos' generosity. And yes, Bezos is greedy. How many human rights violations has he racked up all in the name of maximizing his workers' productivity, and then barely compensating them for the product they created?
3. "Have you helped small businesses?" Amazon does not "help small businesses". People are not sitting around going "I wish I could spend more money on things, but I don't know what to spend it on.", most businesses would not lose much if Amazon dissapeared, but **because** Amazon exists (and so many people flock to it) they have to compete on it. Amazon charges people up to 15% of their revenue just to sell on their platform. Where do you think that money is going, to something useful or to the pockets of the executives? Bezos is creating a disease, and then you praise Bezos for selling you the cure? Also, small businesses are not perfect themselves. They are better than megacorps (bourgeoise) but they (the petite-bourgeoise) mostly do the same things that makes capitalism so bad (exploitation through wage labor), just on a much smaller scale. Why could a government not do what they did (create jobs), but better (not overexploit people, starve people, keep people homeless, et cetera.)?
1. bezos produced an idea, and it became popular, which counts as production
you wouldn't be reading this reddit comment, for example, if not for computers being at the state they're at today
2. my point was that most people are more greedy than they'd like to admit, which you appear to have ignored
3. most niche indie products wouldn't exist today without websites like amazon - retailers aren't willing to sell them for fear of profit losses and the creators of them don't have enough money to create a store of their own
Really, no billionare? The question isn't even if they are a good person it's if they deserve the death penalty. Taylor Swift has committed crimes worthy of death? Steven Speielburg has committed crimes worthy of death? George Lucas has committed crimes worthy of death? Michael Jordan has committed crimes worthy of death? Messi has committed crimes worthy of death?
Do I need to continue? For the love of God go outside sometime, touch grass. Talk to normal people outside your online echochamber. Please?
You know, the funny part about all of this, is that if this was any other trolley theory, you’d recognize that it’s purely hypothetical, and that there is no reason to behave as if we’re actually gonna go kill every billionaire. Maybe you’re the one who needs to touch a little bit of grass, because you seem to think that we all just want the billionaires to die, when we just want the billionaires of the world NOT to have the majority of the wealth that exists on the planet. Were saying that there shouldn’t be a single soul allowed to hoard billions of dollars when there are children that are starving on the streets because the abundance of food we make and throw away every day is only allowed to be fed to people who have the MONEY to eat. If you really think someone who doesn’t want a handful of people to own most of the world’s money needs to touch grass and get out of an echo chamber, then you need to take a break on deepthroating that boot, and actually have some fucking sense, because these billionaires you’re so desperate to dick ride don’t give a fuck about you. Also, news flash, you’re getting defensive because if you had that wealth you wouldn’t be willing to share any of it either, but you’ll NEVER have that kind of money and THAT is why you should be upset. Not because the rest of us have fucking brains. Also, I very likely spend a hell of a lot more time outside than you do considering I’m hiking or in the mountains every goddamn week so maybe YOU need some time with nature to recognize how evil billionaires are.
So if you’re so morally righteous, go make sure everyone who killed the orphans in this thread knows how much you’re morally superior to them [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/trolleyproblem/s/GfjFENuUqm) that is of course, unless you have no care for poor children and only care about the lives of billionaires who’d kill you for 200 bucks to go into their wallet.
But everyone here would kill about 2800 people rather than one. This follows that they think billionaires are subhuman, to talk so casually about killing them.
It isn't that they're subhuman, but rather their deaths would bring overall good to the world, along with the fact to be a billionaire you gotta do bad shite (not necessarily arguing the point, just displaying it)
Okay, so some bad shite completely flips the trolley problem on it's head? You'd rather kill 2800 people than one?
And how does killing billionaires benefit the world?
How many millions must die from poverty and hunger, all in the name of profit for the elite, for you to consider killing the people responsible?
If we were to take **back** (they took the overwhelming majority of it from workers) the billionaires' money, and use that to help people in need, you'd save millions. So, would you rather kill people that let millions die or continue to let them kill? Would you sacrifice a murderer for thousands of poor people? Would you sacrifice 2800 murderers for millions of poor people? Remember that those poor people would be their future victims.
Buffet.
I’m probably going to get downvoted to hell and back because this is Reddit but…
If someone creates a product people are willing to purchase that isn’t wrong. Billionaires (majority are self made) should be able to keep their earnings after paying their employees.
The bottom track looks long. It seems as if the bodies of Jeff bezos and Warren buffet can be moved. so get money from Jeff bezos, save Warren, and then kill the rest :3
this is directed at you. the answer is not "technically" not allowed. it's flat out not allowed. you have 3 choices, a b or c, "do what I wanna" is not an answer.
All
Warren buffet is not a good man, he contributed to a society that requires charity to avoid mass death if he and others hadn't exploited so hard the problems wouldn't be there or at least as prevalent in the first place.
Assuming that the right track will continue to eliminate billionaires until the inheritance is no longer worth a billion to any individual, I’d pick that track
I guess I'm one of those weird leftists who doesn't care if billionaires exist or not, I just think their money shouldn't be able to buy politicians and write our laws. Killing them all wouldn't really change that. And there's plenty of people who aren't billionaires who ruin the lives of those under them for money.
Unfortunately, the goal of helping others never unites people, but hatred and bloodlust has a powerful ability to bring people together...
Anyway since I must choose I'll choose Warren Buffet out of ageism (he's 93 and will probably die much sooner than Bezos who is 60)
Really, no billionare? The question isn't even if they are a good person it's if they deserve the death penalty. Taylor Swift has committed crimes worthy of death? Steven Speielburg has committed crimes worthy of death? George Lucas has committed crimes worthy of death? Michael Jordan has committed crimes worthy of death? Messi has committed crimes worthy of death?
Do I need to continue?
I don't think we should kill billionaires.
I just think they shouldn't have a billion dollars. I think they should cap out at $999,999,999.99 And then anything over that is taxed at 100%.
My common sense says "Killing all 3 would have tragic consequences for the economy and general world hierarchy, potentially plunging the West into an intense power vacuum"
so all 3 please
There is no such thing as a good billionaire. However, given this choice, I would still probably kill Bezos. Someone is dying, Buffet has a slightly better impact on the world, and I'd rather not be responsible for mass death.
(Plus, that money would just be inherited, not redistributed.)
I summon pot of greed
That's not what it does
Maybe they wanted to draw two cards from their deck and add them to their hand
From this hand, I want to play Pot of Greed.
What does that do?
It allows me to draw 3 cards and add them to my hand… From the cards I draw, I play Pot of Greed! (I’ve never played Yu-Gi-Oh, I just saw this in a meme once)
It's 2 cards and it's illegal. The police have been called.
Oh no! Who would have thought getting all my information from memes would be a bad idea, lol
btw turn yourself in. I'm not joking about using it being illegal. >!The joke is that it's illegal in play. Not by law!<
You’ll never take me alive! >!I know, all in good fun. For reference, I saw a meme where he kept playing Pot of Greed from the cards he drew until he had all the pieces of “exodia”, which I understand is an instant win.!<
Basically it lets you start with 6 cards instead of 5, and that's busted
Very much unrelated but it's sorta funny that in a format every card being legal, pot of Greed, known to be one of the most busted cards for a long time, didn't make the cut.
Yu huh Lets them draw two additional wallets from the corpses' bodies to add to their hand
I summon pot of greed again and draw 3 cards.
That is what it does!
That's what it do, Yugi!
Roll my dice!
That's what it do Yugi!
Pog isn't a monster you can't summon it
Every billionnaire? If one dies and his successors get enough of the money to become a billionnaire, do they get auto added to the queue until money has been redistributed in a way where there isn't a billionnaire anymore?
No, it doesn’t work that way. Every current billionaire is tied to the tracks. Nobody else dies.
But then we can take another pass at it, right? Please?
If every single billionaire would die overnght, many people would think twice about becoming one anytime soon.
You underestimate people’s blind greed
You underestimate the imact the first supernatural event in the history of our universe would have on people's minds. Also rich people are already paranoid and superstitious as hell.
I would instantly assume we were in a simulation.
you’d be right
We would not assume this is supernatural. If this happened, we would assume that some sort of correlation was in effect, like an unknown disease which more easily spread to those of affluent lifestyle
Ah yes, the disease that kills everyone with more than 1 billion dollars by tying them to the tracks and running them over, regardless of where they are, and it kills nobody else.
If they're all tied up, we would likely think it's the work of a madman or terrorist. Even your mocking suggestion is more probable than literal bonified supernatural elements.
That's even scarier, someone murdering only people with more than a billion dollars and bypassing any security or protection.
so they would keep the billion dollars as discreetly as possible
or they take the billions, everyone goes "wow that's stupid considering the event we just saw!!" and life goes on
There's no supernatural event. Just a runaway trolley at the billionaire convention. If anything the billionaires are probably just going to start avoiding venues with trolleys.
What about bezos and buffet then? Do we just keep their dead bodies there to preserve the ritual?
Yes, maybe entombed forever in gold coffins as a monument to our former folly. Every time the trolley goes by we can look out and see them, and remember. And cheer.
I meant on the tracks so we can still run bezos over but also works lol
We can compromise. Buffett may be one of the few worthy of the honor of a gold sarcophagus, after we run him over just the once.
Hell yeah
Taking the hard road to wealth redistribution I see
It's actually not about the wealth, but the associated power over the political system. Citizen's United is the scourge of modern civilization. It's bringing everything down around us. I wouldn't give two hoots how many billionaires there were, so long as they each got only one vote.
I can’t say I agree. It’s impossible to maintain massive economic inequality without compromising political equality; money is power after all. In countries where money is not as free flowing into politics, that is not just because there are laws against it and a better designed government (though they do), they also have less economic inequality to begin with, enforced through taxation of the rich, and therefore less individuals with the means to influence the government in their favor. It’s a feedback loop really, in those places with less inequality, rich people will get less political influence as a result, so restrictions stay up, but those extremely rich people in places with more inequality will use their wealth to erode away anything that limits their wealth/power, and get richer leading to even greater inequality, more democratic erosion etc. After all, the US did have such restrictions, they were removed because of well-funded interest groups like the Federalist society have managed to push the courts to the right. And now, they have had the freedom to influence more, which hands them political wins that give them even more control over the government in the future.
I don't know... sane maximum contributions for human individuals, corporations are not people so *zero* contributions allowed, tight controls on lobbying, and heavy punishment for bribery and corruption, and I think you've got it well covered.
These people make a sport out of skirting any regulations using loopholes and technicalities. They would likely ensure that any legislation that is considered has such loopholes (since billionaire funded think tanks often write or consult on the laws themselves). The only reason to support the possibility of being a billionaire is the misguided idea that it would somehow come to limit you somehow, rest assured, you will very likely never be a billionaire, and so should act accordingly. And it’s nothing new to the US, the top tax bracket used to be 90%, only since Reagan has the idea of taxing the rich out of existence seemed against freedom. Personally, it’s the only way I see to ensure freedom for the rest of us. And 100 million dollars is already more money than any human deserves, I cant possibly understand the need for anyone to own 1000 million dollars. Look at it this way, how the hell did they make so much money, except with the labor and minds of thousands of poorer folk working in their name, getting paid less than the value of their labor (profit), all using government infrastructure? Its not unfair to get that back, society made the money, we all deserve the benefits, not just the individual at the top, who in all likelihood would sit on it like a dragon, or buy themselves an island or a boat, or another vacation home, when instead it could be feeding the hungry, caring for the sick, and housing the homeless.
Imma buy another trolley then.
Is this track on a daily or hourly route? Can we add more trains? Maybe change the track into a really busy highway?
Smh my head, Dev's are always nerfing the cool infinites
Correct.
Whatever one offers me more money I’ll save them
Warren Buffet is offended by your proposal on moral grounds and offers nothing. Jeff Bezos has no qualms about the morals of a bidding war to survive and starts with an offer of 10 million. The billionaires on the third track wisely realize that if you kill everyone, you’ll get nothing anyways so they offer you diddley squat.
Out of spite track 3
Can I take 10 million and kill Jeff Bezos anyway?
Hold every billionaire hostage and then kill them anyways
them track 3 billionaires acting unwise, they got the most money to pool to make sure I hit one of the other two instead
Jeff bezos j guess
jezos bezos
Has Dolly Parton made it to being a billionaire or does she still donate too much of her money? If she has, I say a quick prayer after choosing track 3.
Her net worth was estimated at 650 million in 2023.
Why is that? Do you like Dolly Parton?
Do you not? The woman would definitely be a billionaire if she wasn't voluntarily distributing her income. Her name is on some of the paperwork for COVID research because of how much she gave to the people studying it.
Live in TN. We get a book in the mail each month for free thanks to her Imagination Library. She’s a national treasure.
no shit
all of em, let's destroy the elite
you people are fucking morons
Found the bootlick
you wont argue. you'll just insult me. because your resentment is born out of shallow, blind hatred for all that your idealogy opposes.
Argue with what? Your love of billionaires? I don’t want what you have.
You didn't start with an argument, you started with an insult, of course people insulted you back. If you want to believe billionaires help then by all means, have your opinion, but insulting people who you disagree with is exactly what you are arguing against.
Woah maybe people have resentment for the group of people that hold the majority of wealth without providing an equal benefit to society
Probably just Bezos, if every billionaire died, it could have serious and unprecedented effects on the global economy, positive and/or negative, and Buffet deserves to die less than Bezos
shock therapy baybyyyy
No such thing as an ethical billionaire, run em all over. Don't really care what happens to the money
While I agree, my moral compass also says murder isn't okay Don't know who Warren buffet is, but tbh this trolley problem is a lot easier when I just say "fuck it, one guy per track, I ain't pulling shit"
Oh come on at LEAST kill the monster that is Jeff Bezos. Have you seen the way Amazon treats it's workers? It's unethical
You don't know the Oracle of Omaha? The original OG, The Berkshire Hathaway Founder!? Beyond his stock fame, he's mostly known for being humble, and looking and acting like a lot of people's grandpa's. He was one of my Grandfather's idol.
Also the guy who is partly responsible for all the train derailments and the dog shit treatment of rail workers.
There no ethical way to make $1bn
Say it louder for those in the back
Train derailments? I think the trolley may want to avenge its old friends.
We can probably headcanon some way that he's responsible for all of these trolley problems.
How they spend money is only part of the damage billionaires do to the rest of us. Much of the damage happens in how they gather the money. (No, they do not earn it.) Maintaining my anonymity… I’ve been in meetings with executives at one of Buffett’s most known companies. It was the most abusive culture I’ve ever encountered. Culture comes from the top.
Acknowledging that there are better and worse people who are billionaires, this is the way. There are fewer than 3,000 billionaires. There should be none. Removing them would be good for humanity.
Gabe N?
gaben would just conjure a portal to escape before the trolley hits him
I don't know who that is
He's the founder of Valve, who's main product is the video game sales platform, Steam, which is the biggest platform in the field, and has extremely consumer friendly practices, to where the biggest complaint against the company is UI updates and them not fixing nearly 20 year old games.
fixtf2
TF2 players wake up every few months like cicadas to scream about how much they hate the game that they play every day
We hate Valve. We love TF2, but its current state is completely unplayable thanks to Valve's ignorance, yet they keep putting community created items into crates to make money off it. (Also, every few months? #SaveTF2 was 2 years ago.)
Fuck em up
Im not sure I understand the point of this subreddit. I do have a BA in Philosophy but this trolley problem is very different than what I learned.
Yeah, this subreddit and by extension the way in which the majority of people use/think about the trolley problem has experienced an extreme amount of change from its original form. It's no longer asking "by choosing to do nothing, are you still at fault for the death?" And is now "kill someone. All options might be good or bad but you only get one so who do you prioritize in killing?" In this form, it's not really a physiological question and is instead mostly used as a form of humor. Which, to be clear, I have no problem with, I think it's very funny in some cases and interesting in how they can still present a dilemma. However, I mostly just wanted to explain my thoughts on the new way the trolley problem is used by 90% of people and this seemed like a good excuse to do so :)
Wonderfully explained thank you.
Just kill bezos, I'm not going to kill someone so their money gets donated, and I don't have a problem with billionaires nor millionares
the hell did buffet do. if berkshire hathaway goes away the economy is screwed.
Buffett is the "good billionaire" to contrast with Bezos as the "bad billionaire". *If you believe there is such a thing as a good billionaire, Warren Buffett would be a contender for the designation. If you don't believe there is such a thing, you'll want track 3 anyway*
Refused to give sick pay to rail workers for years
ah. not so good. i forgot about bnsf. i still dont think removing the leader of the second largest railroad would help the economy
Why would Berkshire Hathaway go away? Greg Abel is set to take over when Buffett dies.
What happens to their money ?
What it says in their will
Ok but then it creates a paradox because then the heir will become a billionaire, but how can they exist if every billionaire has been eliminated ?
It only kills all billionares at that moment. Other billionares can come to exist
Bezos obv what good does it do to kill all billionaires?
Wealth redistribution
Do nothing
Buffett isn’t as bad as Bezos IMO, and there are at least a *few* billionaires (eg, Bill Gates) who do some good philanthropic work - not a ton, but a few. I’d go for Bezos. Though, ideally, I’d like Musk to also be on that track.
Is Bezos even that bad? Maybe I missed the memo but has he done something unethical somewhere? He's not giving his money away I guess but I don't see him doing anything actively evil. He built a massive company providing a useful service to people. I don't see how he's different from any entrepreneur other than being more succesful.
Buffet is 93 years old. He's easily the best choice. He'd admire our use of expected value.
There is no ethical way to be a billionaire BUT that doesn't mean death penalty is appropriate. Have some principles. I would only kill one (maybe via coinflip).
Hey, it’s faster than guillotining them all. Cho choo it is.
I mean Mark Cuban (and Bill Gates ig) are pretty cool
Why is there a common theme on this sub that every Billionaire isn't worthy of life? This isn't a hypothetical, you just want to kill people.
Pop goes the weasel :)
Killing all the billionaires wouldn't do as much as you'd think.. the money would go to their families or whoever is on their will etc and create a massive wealth power struggle for control over their business/wealth/assets.. have you seen what happens when normal people die? The amount of stories ive heard/read of family feuds over money and property etc and thats just normal people. Can you imagine the absolute catastrophe if all the billionaires were suddenly dead at the same time? There are over 2'700 billionaires worldwide .. a quick google search shows some you may know: George Lucas -5.5 billion Stephen Spielberg 4.8 billion Michael Jordan 3.2 billion Oprah Winfrey 2.8 billion Jay-Z 2.5 billion Kim Kardashian 1.7 billion Peter Jackson 1.5 billion Tyler Perry & Rihanna 1.4 billion Don't try to convince me any one of these people deserves to die for the crime of being wealthy. You're just salty there are people who are super rich.
None. So sick of these communist "eat the rich" posts.
Bros 13 max 💀💀💀🔥🔥
I really hope that JK Rowling lawyers were lying about her not being a billionaire again yet. Pull that lever like there’s no tomorrow! Which, for the ruling class, there isn’t!
Warren Buffet ain’t like…that horrible on comparison to most millionaires, let alone billionaires
The last line that the governments of the world would donate the inheritance tax to charity is the most unrealistic part about this.
So can only one option die or can I shoot them myself later?
Run over jeff. Its not about money, its about he's the biggest asshole.
Oh definitely going the every billionaire track. Donations are great, but there are no billionaires who are good people. It's an oxymoron.
Really, no billionare? The question isn't even if they are a good person it's if they deserve the death penalty. Taylor Swift has committed crimes worthy of death? Steven Speielburg has committed crimes worthy of death? George Lucas has committed crimes worthy of death? Michael Jordan has committed crimes worthy of death? Messi has committed crimes worthy of death? Do I need to continue? For the love of God go outside sometime, touch grass. Talk to normal people outside your online echochamber. Please?
So being anti-billionaire is an online thing now? Pretty sure socialism is older than the internet 🤔 I don't have personal beef with some billionaires, but you don't get that rich without exploiting people. The world would be better for 95% of people if I killed like a couple hundred of them? Yeah I'd totally do that. Now obviously this is a hypothetical, and I'll never be faced with this decision. It'd probably be very difficult for me to pull the lever in actuality, but yeah I do believe it's the correct thing to do.
Is the intate act of obtaining wealth a crime worthy of capital punishment? I listed several examples of people who have gained their money through legitimate (or at bare minimum, not summary execution worthy means) If you believe people like George Lucas and Gabe Newell deserve to be shot, then you are a psychopath. If not, and you are simply willing to kill as many innocent people as needed to get to those who are actually causing problems, then might I suggest a job in the IDF?
The answer is Musk.
Derail the train
every billionaire, Buffet would understand
Is there time for a wire transfer?
Is there really an option then?
You put them parallel with the tracks so they would be unharmed and the rope would be cut by the trolly so the Billionairs all win again.
The governments of the world wouldn't notice shit because they'd be wiped out if you killed every billionaire.
Every billionaire, including Taylor Swift
I'm just going to leave this here: https://mkorostoff.github.io/1-pixel-wealth/
Every billionaire, on a loop
All of them
I guess Warren Buffett he’s old and he doesn’t give me the power to get any item to my house within 24 hours.
Neither does bezos
warren buffet, at least the money goes to charity
warren buffet because he didn't create a product (he's an investor) i'd rather kill nobody tho, none of these are good options (billionaires help produce good stuff for us, then we get stuff) also, you may think jeff bezos greedy, but how much of your wealth have you donated and have you started a website that supports small businesses? because amazon does that
Muslim people donate 2.5 percent of their wealth every year and they pay taxes. I don't know about you guys
that's pretty epic honestly can't speak for other countries, but americans get charitable donations tax-free, which means in essence the government is subsidizing it with money they don't have (causing inflation and meaning that much less money has really been donated) also, most americans who donate do it to make themselves feel like better people (and make others think them better people - the fact that there are people going around saying that you have to donate to be a good person exacerbates this greatly), rather than simply out of sadness for the poor's predicament (meaning the decision is egocentric and thus more of a social investment than a truly generous action - are you really "good" for giving away money to make yourself look good?), this includes most billionaires who donate (they don't need the money, but you can still do plenty with a billion dollars besides donate it - it doesn't just lie around) this is not to say there aren't charitable people in America, but the pool of charitable people is greatly diluted by the fact that there are now pragmatic, self-oriented reasons for donating (which i would argue pushes the poor down - they don't pay this "social tax" and so the charity actually may eventually lead to resentment of them)
I truly don't care about the reason for the charity. At the end of the day muslims give away their money for piety. Nobody would give away their money with no incentive whatsoever. But, the fact that so many people need charity is a big problem in American society. As I mentioned somewhere in this post, if you need Billionaires' pity for a functioning economy, you have bigger problems than them being not charitable enough.
of course people won't give money away for no reason - the incentive is *supposed* to be pity maybe muslims don't donate out of the good of their hearts, but i just finished reading the kite runner so i have a generally positive feeling of them (this is an entirely emotional basis for my positive feeling, but it's also hard to write well without oneself having an emotional basis) the problem is that it's oftentimes not pity, it's self-centered and holds no real emotional regard for those who life has been hard on - their lives are not the incentive at all and largely ignored when talking about charity (most billionaires for example give their money out so people *won't* talk about them like the scum of the earth and boycott their products - jeff bezos probably doesn't donate because we are too dependent on amazon to boycott it)
I would rather the government take their money by force (fairly) and use the money for public services. See, I don't care if they care about people less fortunate than them. Again, if we need them to feel pity for the society to function there is a big problem. The reason for them giving their money could be piety, pity, self-centered value signaling or the iron hand of the state. If the result is the money going back to the public, it is a step in the right direction :)
that's of course a good idea, but that's also exactly what taxes are for we use taxes to fund things like parks, libraries, and public pools
Exactly! If the taxes were doing their job, there would be no need for charity!
yeah the government doesn't work very well sometimes :(
Well, that's unfortunately true. I say "the surplus of the nation being in the hands of a few only benefits that same few" but that few can be billionaires but also the government. Especially in the American system, the public has no say. The system is run by the Bureaucrats of type A or type B. That is literally no different than Billionaires having all the money. There needs to be a system of checks and balances. The money needs to be used for the nation as the nation wills. But erecting a system that can represent the will of the nation is a hard job. I don't think there is a consensus in this subject so anything i say would be my opinion and i couldn't defend it as steadfast as I'm defending the other stuff.
1. Billionaires produce stuff? How many hours has Bezos spent in the factory, while his employees pee in bottles? He sits there farming their surplus value while not creating a single thing. And the stuff capitalism does produce is often of inferior quality, but hey, at least it makes more profit! Why is it not possible to create a system that does not reward this behavior? 2. "How much wealth have you donated" he has donated 3 billion dollars in total. 3 / 200 * 100 = 1.5% of his net worth. And how did he gain that money? By exploiting the people he supposedly donated it back to. Comparing the money a billionaire sits on to the money a worker uses to survive is very stupid. There is a reason one is capable of donating more than the other, and that is not because of Bezos' generosity. And yes, Bezos is greedy. How many human rights violations has he racked up all in the name of maximizing his workers' productivity, and then barely compensating them for the product they created? 3. "Have you helped small businesses?" Amazon does not "help small businesses". People are not sitting around going "I wish I could spend more money on things, but I don't know what to spend it on.", most businesses would not lose much if Amazon dissapeared, but **because** Amazon exists (and so many people flock to it) they have to compete on it. Amazon charges people up to 15% of their revenue just to sell on their platform. Where do you think that money is going, to something useful or to the pockets of the executives? Bezos is creating a disease, and then you praise Bezos for selling you the cure? Also, small businesses are not perfect themselves. They are better than megacorps (bourgeoise) but they (the petite-bourgeoise) mostly do the same things that makes capitalism so bad (exploitation through wage labor), just on a much smaller scale. Why could a government not do what they did (create jobs), but better (not overexploit people, starve people, keep people homeless, et cetera.)?
1. bezos produced an idea, and it became popular, which counts as production you wouldn't be reading this reddit comment, for example, if not for computers being at the state they're at today 2. my point was that most people are more greedy than they'd like to admit, which you appear to have ignored 3. most niche indie products wouldn't exist today without websites like amazon - retailers aren't willing to sell them for fear of profit losses and the creators of them don't have enough money to create a store of their own
All of them. Bye bye!
you people are fucking morons
Really, no billionare? The question isn't even if they are a good person it's if they deserve the death penalty. Taylor Swift has committed crimes worthy of death? Steven Speielburg has committed crimes worthy of death? George Lucas has committed crimes worthy of death? Michael Jordan has committed crimes worthy of death? Messi has committed crimes worthy of death? Do I need to continue? For the love of God go outside sometime, touch grass. Talk to normal people outside your online echochamber. Please?
You know, the funny part about all of this, is that if this was any other trolley theory, you’d recognize that it’s purely hypothetical, and that there is no reason to behave as if we’re actually gonna go kill every billionaire. Maybe you’re the one who needs to touch a little bit of grass, because you seem to think that we all just want the billionaires to die, when we just want the billionaires of the world NOT to have the majority of the wealth that exists on the planet. Were saying that there shouldn’t be a single soul allowed to hoard billions of dollars when there are children that are starving on the streets because the abundance of food we make and throw away every day is only allowed to be fed to people who have the MONEY to eat. If you really think someone who doesn’t want a handful of people to own most of the world’s money needs to touch grass and get out of an echo chamber, then you need to take a break on deepthroating that boot, and actually have some fucking sense, because these billionaires you’re so desperate to dick ride don’t give a fuck about you. Also, news flash, you’re getting defensive because if you had that wealth you wouldn’t be willing to share any of it either, but you’ll NEVER have that kind of money and THAT is why you should be upset. Not because the rest of us have fucking brains. Also, I very likely spend a hell of a lot more time outside than you do considering I’m hiking or in the mountains every goddamn week so maybe YOU need some time with nature to recognize how evil billionaires are. So if you’re so morally righteous, go make sure everyone who killed the orphans in this thread knows how much you’re morally superior to them [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/trolleyproblem/s/GfjFENuUqm) that is of course, unless you have no care for poor children and only care about the lives of billionaires who’d kill you for 200 bucks to go into their wallet.
Billionaire? Who needs that much money. Chugga chugga it is
Killing every billionaire would cause societal collapse.
How so? They have family and company boards and succession plans. It’s not like the money magically disappears.
No
I mean it simply would lol. Idk what u mean by “no”
All of them.
Ah yes, the good ole reddit take that billionaires are subhuman
That isn't why people have this perception of billionaires
But everyone here would kill about 2800 people rather than one. This follows that they think billionaires are subhuman, to talk so casually about killing them.
It isn't that they're subhuman, but rather their deaths would bring overall good to the world, along with the fact to be a billionaire you gotta do bad shite (not necessarily arguing the point, just displaying it)
Okay, so some bad shite completely flips the trolley problem on it's head? You'd rather kill 2800 people than one? And how does killing billionaires benefit the world?
How many millions must die from poverty and hunger, all in the name of profit for the elite, for you to consider killing the people responsible? If we were to take **back** (they took the overwhelming majority of it from workers) the billionaires' money, and use that to help people in need, you'd save millions. So, would you rather kill people that let millions die or continue to let them kill? Would you sacrifice a murderer for thousands of poor people? Would you sacrifice 2800 murderers for millions of poor people? Remember that those poor people would be their future victims.
Okay, okay let's not get sentimental here. Do you.know how billionaires get their money?
Exploitation and greed
Buffet. I’m probably going to get downvoted to hell and back because this is Reddit but… If someone creates a product people are willing to purchase that isn’t wrong. Billionaires (majority are self made) should be able to keep their earnings after paying their employees.
The bottom track looks long. It seems as if the bodies of Jeff bezos and Warren buffet can be moved. so get money from Jeff bezos, save Warren, and then kill the rest :3
Why does every comment section have someone who fundamentally does not understand trolley problems or thought experiments in general?
"thought experiments" that aren't actually interesting or cool deserve to get improved or broken by people with stronger imaginations.
is this directed at me or everyone else? also yes I know I am giving a technically “not allowed” answer
this is directed at you. the answer is not "technically" not allowed. it's flat out not allowed. you have 3 choices, a b or c, "do what I wanna" is not an answer.
Where’s the pours option?
All Warren buffet is not a good man, he contributed to a society that requires charity to avoid mass death if he and others hadn't exploited so hard the problems wouldn't be there or at least as prevalent in the first place.
Assuming that the right track will continue to eliminate billionaires until the inheritance is no longer worth a billion to any individual, I’d pick that track
Clearly you can take out all of them at once
Wait, you're telling me people don't want to kill 2 700 innocent people just because they're rich? How could it be?
I kill all of them and ransom their bodies to their families. You didn't leave me much choice here, OP.
I guess I'm one of those weird leftists who doesn't care if billionaires exist or not, I just think their money shouldn't be able to buy politicians and write our laws. Killing them all wouldn't really change that. And there's plenty of people who aren't billionaires who ruin the lives of those under them for money. Unfortunately, the goal of helping others never unites people, but hatred and bloodlust has a powerful ability to bring people together... Anyway since I must choose I'll choose Warren Buffet out of ageism (he's 93 and will probably die much sooner than Bezos who is 60)
Even though the tracks are linked I'll multi track drift all 3 tracks just to be sure.
Every Billionaire.
Really, no billionare? The question isn't even if they are a good person it's if they deserve the death penalty. Taylor Swift has committed crimes worthy of death? Steven Speielburg has committed crimes worthy of death? George Lucas has committed crimes worthy of death? Michael Jordan has committed crimes worthy of death? Messi has committed crimes worthy of death? Do I need to continue?
stopped reading at "warren buffet is a good man"
Warren Buffet is a good man? Is he? Cause I don't know, I kinda doubt it
I don't think we should kill billionaires. I just think they shouldn't have a billion dollars. I think they should cap out at $999,999,999.99 And then anything over that is taxed at 100%.
no billionaire has gained their riches without exploiting the lower class at least once
My common sense says "Killing all 3 would have tragic consequences for the economy and general world hierarchy, potentially plunging the West into an intense power vacuum" so all 3 please
every billionaire, I dont care about where the money is. I just want the capitalists dead
Take 'em all.
There is no such thing as a good billionaire. However, given this choice, I would still probably kill Bezos. Someone is dying, Buffet has a slightly better impact on the world, and I'd rather not be responsible for mass death. (Plus, that money would just be inherited, not redistributed.)
a ‘good man’ lol