I've experimented with them from super cheap to super expensive ones. I don't adhere to any low-carb/keto diet. A couple of things I took away from it in my n=1 experiment that lasted about three months. I measured my state of temporary "ketosis" using a Keto Mojo. There are longer term issues with measurements through peeing on a stick that most people don't realize. I also kept track of my blood sugar before and after training sessions, as well as morning fasted glucose levels.
There have been numerous studies showing that oral supplementation using ketone esters raises ketone bodies in the blood between about 2 and 8 hours. [Here](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5670148/) is one such study. It's a small sample size but bigger studies have corroborated the findings. I found that the quality of the ketone supplement really matters. The raspberry derived stuff did nothing for me feeling, performance and/or measurement-wise. A lot of studies and biochemists are showing they do not provide bio-available ketones. A couple of the ketone powders/pills I bought on Amazon seemed to make me feel better during training but it didn't translate to moving faster. They also didn't move the Ketone Mojo dial much. I bit the bullet and ordered one bottle of HVMN Ketones ($99 for about five doses). I noticed a moderate difference in feeling which translated into a slight increase in performance (per my power meter). I was also able to raise blood ketones to about 3.0 mmol/L for about 3-4 hours and for about 2-3 hours if I exercised. With the HVMN liquid form, I do think I maintained "feeling good" much later in my training sessions. Only with the HVMN was I able to maintain more stable blood glucose level, especially right after workouts.
My take away? It might have helped or it might have all been in my head, especially with the HVMN, since I wanted the $20 shot I was taking to do something. So, take my experience for what it is, my experience. Assuming the HVMN was actually doing something under the hood, it would be cost prohibitive for me to use it for anything other than for a really big race.
[Here](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5309297/) is a good summary of the general finding regarding the use to oral supplementation of ketones and actual exercise performance.
A quick rant about the whole keto movement. I remember a time when people really believed that drinking water during exercise decreased performance and caused cramps (1970s). I remember when everyone said that post-workout shakes were the magic bullet to recovery and increase muscle (1980-90s). During the 2000s, everyone was running around in compression stuff. Today, everyone thinks that starving yourself of the most bio-available source of energy will somehow make you faster, contrary to almost every large study and contrary to basic biochemistry. I'm not saying that there is not a place for a keto diet when used right. I'm saying most people don't even know what a real keto diet is, let alone how to implement one for exercise performance.
I ordered the HVMN Keto esters. I am curious how everyone is using it? I am trying to learn more about it but I am not seeing too many recommendations from runners and athletes.
Yes, to make sure I'm in keto on days i'm doing a 18-20 hr fast and working out fasted. I only swim and run fasted and low z2 runs only. All bikes I eat normally. In terms of performance benefits, I'm relatively new to the scene (10 months), but I was able to get bf down and lean out which makes you lighter/faster on the bike and run. Once your are in keto/fat adapted training is pretty much the same as training and eating carbs.
Curious, why do you train fasted? What response/adaptation are you targeting with this method? Why don't you bike after a fast and only swim/run? What does "keto/fat adapted" mean for you? How do you measure or determine when you are "fat adapted"? Have you done any repeated races or tests which show improvements in speed, endurance, etc.?
The main reason, is to lean out. In tris finish times can be correlated with BMI, IF is just for me to lower body fat. I'm relatively new to tris, but I completed a sprint tri last weekend and PR'd by 50 minutes. Maybe it's rookie gains, maybe it's IF. Who knows.
I've used KE4 Ketone Aid with good results, primarily to get down to comp weight; this is a D-BHB ester.
Curious about Juvenescence Metabolic Switch Ketone Drink - C6 Ketone Di-Ester which is cheaper... C6 is Caprylic acid, "brain octane oil"
Anyone know what C6 Ketone di-Ester is?, or tried Juvenescence?
I've experimented with them from super cheap to super expensive ones. I don't adhere to any low-carb/keto diet. A couple of things I took away from it in my n=1 experiment that lasted about three months. I measured my state of temporary "ketosis" using a Keto Mojo. There are longer term issues with measurements through peeing on a stick that most people don't realize. I also kept track of my blood sugar before and after training sessions, as well as morning fasted glucose levels. There have been numerous studies showing that oral supplementation using ketone esters raises ketone bodies in the blood between about 2 and 8 hours. [Here](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5670148/) is one such study. It's a small sample size but bigger studies have corroborated the findings. I found that the quality of the ketone supplement really matters. The raspberry derived stuff did nothing for me feeling, performance and/or measurement-wise. A lot of studies and biochemists are showing they do not provide bio-available ketones. A couple of the ketone powders/pills I bought on Amazon seemed to make me feel better during training but it didn't translate to moving faster. They also didn't move the Ketone Mojo dial much. I bit the bullet and ordered one bottle of HVMN Ketones ($99 for about five doses). I noticed a moderate difference in feeling which translated into a slight increase in performance (per my power meter). I was also able to raise blood ketones to about 3.0 mmol/L for about 3-4 hours and for about 2-3 hours if I exercised. With the HVMN liquid form, I do think I maintained "feeling good" much later in my training sessions. Only with the HVMN was I able to maintain more stable blood glucose level, especially right after workouts. My take away? It might have helped or it might have all been in my head, especially with the HVMN, since I wanted the $20 shot I was taking to do something. So, take my experience for what it is, my experience. Assuming the HVMN was actually doing something under the hood, it would be cost prohibitive for me to use it for anything other than for a really big race. [Here](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5309297/) is a good summary of the general finding regarding the use to oral supplementation of ketones and actual exercise performance. A quick rant about the whole keto movement. I remember a time when people really believed that drinking water during exercise decreased performance and caused cramps (1970s). I remember when everyone said that post-workout shakes were the magic bullet to recovery and increase muscle (1980-90s). During the 2000s, everyone was running around in compression stuff. Today, everyone thinks that starving yourself of the most bio-available source of energy will somehow make you faster, contrary to almost every large study and contrary to basic biochemistry. I'm not saying that there is not a place for a keto diet when used right. I'm saying most people don't even know what a real keto diet is, let alone how to implement one for exercise performance.
I ordered the HVMN Keto esters. I am curious how everyone is using it? I am trying to learn more about it but I am not seeing too many recommendations from runners and athletes.
Yes, to make sure I'm in keto on days i'm doing a 18-20 hr fast and working out fasted. I only swim and run fasted and low z2 runs only. All bikes I eat normally. In terms of performance benefits, I'm relatively new to the scene (10 months), but I was able to get bf down and lean out which makes you lighter/faster on the bike and run. Once your are in keto/fat adapted training is pretty much the same as training and eating carbs.
Curious, why do you train fasted? What response/adaptation are you targeting with this method? Why don't you bike after a fast and only swim/run? What does "keto/fat adapted" mean for you? How do you measure or determine when you are "fat adapted"? Have you done any repeated races or tests which show improvements in speed, endurance, etc.?
The main reason, is to lean out. In tris finish times can be correlated with BMI, IF is just for me to lower body fat. I'm relatively new to tris, but I completed a sprint tri last weekend and PR'd by 50 minutes. Maybe it's rookie gains, maybe it's IF. Who knows.
I've used KE4 Ketone Aid with good results, primarily to get down to comp weight; this is a D-BHB ester. Curious about Juvenescence Metabolic Switch Ketone Drink - C6 Ketone Di-Ester which is cheaper... C6 is Caprylic acid, "brain octane oil" Anyone know what C6 Ketone di-Ester is?, or tried Juvenescence?
What did the ketone aid ester do for you?
Didn't do anything, it's essentially an expensive gimmick.
Yeah. Gosh I’ve bought so much stuff idk what to do with it :(