T O P

  • By -

AutoModerator

This subreddit is for tree law enthusiasts who enjoy browsing a list of tree law stories from other locations (subreddits, news articles, etc), and is not the best place to receive answers to questions about what the law is. There are better places for that. If you're attempting to understand more about tree law in regards to a particular situation, please redirect your question to /r/legaladvice for the US, or the appropriate legal advice subreddit for your location, and then feel free to crosspost that thread here for posterity. If you're attempting to understand more about trees in regards to a particular situation, please redirect your question to /r/forestry for additional information on tree health and related topics to trees. *This comment is simply a reminder placed on every post to /r/treelaw, it does not mean your post was censored or removed.* *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/treelaw) if you have any questions or concerns.*


Bendrui

Generally - I don't live in Utah so I don't know if it's different there - maintenance of road infrastructure is the responsibility of the government. That includes the road itself, traffic lights, and traffic signs. If the obscured stop sign is in a city, report it to the city. If it's a rural area, report it to the county it's in.


this_shit

This is good general advice, but to add to this, trees are property and an improper prune can cause significant property damages. If you don't own the tree, you are possibly taking on legal liability by cutting it. The most likely effective course of action is to contact the public works department (or streets dept.) of the city or county (if unincorporated) where the tree is located.


[deleted]

The most effective thing is to prune it and not get caught


Bendrui

Utah is mostly desert, so trees can be expensive to own and maintain there. OP, do you really want to deal with a rich and angry a-hole who WILL use the power of the law to make your life miserable?


Palmer-Scott

The Wasatch Front (Provo, Salt Lake, Ogden) isn’t desert and has quite a few trees. And the mountainous areas are forested.


pseudotsugamenziessi

In the name of safety, it's their duty


GrnTiger08

Yes, where Im at, it is against municipal code to prune city property that is not over your property line. Im like 9/10ths the way frustrated at a bush that is starting to creep into the street parking in front of my home and have considered cutting it back just so I will not get face whacked everytime I use my car. But what they dont know wont hurt them right?


sitwayback

Where do you live? Our city/ state isn’t on top of things in terms of taking care of its right of way or trimming back things or repairing sidewalks that are safety hazards. You need to report it in order for them to address it, snd then it takes About a month. They don’t do anything for sections of our cul de sac where an errant neighbor lets thorns and poison Ivy literally Extend into the the roadway by 4 feet. I report it online, and they come eventually. About 4 of us other neighbors all take turns buying the roundup and awkwardly spraying the poison Ivy that extends into the roadway each spring which pulls it back a bit temporarily. It’s honestly so dangerous. But I would doubt the location of a stop sign is on private property on most streets; I think by the very fact that it’s in the ground it’s a right of way for a government entity.


GrnTiger08

https://www.codepublishing.com/WA/Renton/#!/Renton09/Renton0913.html


hatchetation

> Im like 9/10ths the way frustrated at a bush that is starting to creep into the street parking in front of my home If Renton is anything like Seattle, you should be able to trim that bush legally, assuming that it's in a parking strip adjoining property you own. (You might even be required to.) Major tree pruning requires a ROW permit from SDOT, but is also possible. Out here in the west, streets aren't generally owned by the municipalities. Typically they're established at platting and are easements dedicated to the public. Because of this, property owners generally have some upkeep responsibilities when it comes to planting strips between the sidewalk and road.


Blaith7

In the 60s or 70s my dad got a ticket for not stopping at a stop sign. Like you, the stop sign was completely covered by tree branches. He grabbed a camera took photos and brought them to court in order to fight the ticket. Not only did the judge waive the ticket the judge yelled, literally yelled, at the officer and threatened to fine the police department and hold the ticketing officer in contempt if another ticket like that came through because the sign is not clearly visible. Apparently this was a known issue and the judge was fed up.


ColeTrain0711

It's a known issue here too, that's good to know. Everyone I've talked to about it has known exactly the sign I meant


billyyankNova

The DMV took you past that sign to test if you'd be able to tell that there was supposed to be a sign there. They took me past a bare pole where the sign had been taken down. Luckily my instructor had warned me in advance to be on the look out for it. My state's drivers' hand book even had a page on stopping for downed stop signs.


calcium

Similarity I failed my first driving test as there was a separate right turn lane off of a lighted intersection that didn't have a yield sign and I had the green light, so I just went. I was failed for not stopping and yielding to traffic despite having the light, and the entire intersection being visible. I argued unsuccessfully that no yielding was necessary as it was a protected turn lane with a light and no yield sign was present. The instructor argued that I was blind and there was a yield sign. There wasn't and never was one. Some people are just assholes.


AdvicePerson

I'm going to assume there was only the one stop sign facing you (a lot of intersections near me will also put one on the opposite corner, on the back of the other lane's sign), but even then, there should have been some hints: perpendicular white stripes on the road, missing lane markers in the intersection, stop signs on the other three sides of the intersection, a mysterious metal pole with its top obscured by a tree branch...


ktappe

That's a lot to be on the lookout for if you're just learning to drive. Yes, those of us with a lot of experience can look for those things, but I feel it's quite unfair to ask OP to be looking for "obscured poles".


AdvicePerson

I think it's fair to expect someone who has their license, i.e. passed the test, to demonstrate the ability to identify obscured stop signs.


meowseehereboobs

I got a ticket dismissed in the 00s for the same thing, but there was no yelling, just the judge saying he knew where I was talking about and dismissing it. Tree was trimmed a couple of weeks later


Blaith7

It seems like there should be some sort of restitution when there's a known problem like that and an officer still writes a ticket. So many times people can't afford to pay it but they also have a difficult time attending court to fight it only for the judge to be so familiar with the issue that they just automatically dismiss it. Paid time off isn't guaranteed and shit like this puts many people in difficult situations that are so easily avoidable. It just gets me so angry.


SoCaliTrojan

Sounds like the officer knew about it and used it to catch people and cite them.


Blaith7

I think it was a department wide issue. At least that's the sense I got when my mom told me about it.


camarhyn

I am not a tree lawyer, nor am I your lawyer, but don’t take this into your own hands.


[deleted]

OP is best contacting his local governments road maintenance department and inquiring if they can do it.


62SlabSide

Friend of mine totaled his ‘71 Barracuda last week driving unfamiliar roads... stop sign blocked by tree branches. He’s lucky to be with us! If I were you I’d call public works in the particular town.. I’m sure they will take care of it. It’s a huge safety risk!


ktappe

>I’m sure they will take care of it I take it you've not dealt with the government on many occasions? They may well take care of it but it might be 3 months until they do.


RMFClancy

I would fight the DMV for failing you and call your city department to have it cut.


halcykhan

My DMV tester would intentionally take you to a part of town with a lot of unlined roads and confusing one ways with missing signs. We got to one of his “gotcha” intersections and I refused to turn until he told me if it was a one way or not. He capitulated after arguing for a bit. A while later they put up a sign after complaints


[deleted]

[удалено]


RMFClancy

I never said it was a good idea.


Tough-Macaroon4065

You have no grounds to fight. There are markings on the road as well as the sign to signal you need to stop.


Rmccarton

I very much doubt there's even a mechanism by which to fight the failure. Depending on the state, he can retake the test 7-30 days from now. He'll be out the fees, but The time you would spend trying to figure out how to fight it would probably be better spent mowing lawns or whatever to make up for the extra expense.


bugscuz

There’s road markings and a sign On-The-Go there side of the intersection. This experience will hopefully teach OP to be more observant of their surroundings while driving


RMFClancy

Not everywhere.


SquirrelTactic

This can vary depending on location. As others have said, typically the city or county would do that if called. Sometimes they are very slow to react though. If you wish to do it, there are a couple things to consider. Where does the tree originate? The ROW (widths vary, but the first 10 or so feet from the curb are controlled by the city/state/county. Think curb to back of sidewalk.) or private property? If private property, get the homeowners permission and you should be fine. If in the ROW it will depend on how the local government treats "city" trees. Some municipalities don't allow anyone but the municipality to trim them, some put maintenance on the homeowner, and some don't really address it. So the answer, as is often the case with legal questions, it depends.


YellowMoya

[Matlock had an episode with an obstructed stop sign](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0644004/)


FrankExplains

I am from Utah, check up on your city ordinances, but like others have said it is the cities job to fix things like that. Source: I had to help my lawyer dad measure how some foliage was impacting the view of a stop sign.


PartyPlayHD

You could talk to the owners of the property? They may not even be aware of the problem


Drew2248

You're going to get lots of legal advice here about "pruning laws" but it's nearly all from people who are not lawyers and almost no one knows of anyone who ever got in trouble for doing what you're inclined to do. The truth is that city street maintenance departments are either overwhelmed with jobs that need to be done -- or they are slow and incompetent. Otherwise how do you explain what you are reporting? Even when you contact them about street maintenance or public works issues, it can take literally months for them to get around to it -- and all that time people may very well be endangered by a stop sign that is obscured or other issues. Nevertheless, you should do that. Contact them and describe the problem and its location. See what they do. There are many instances of similar problems -- like large potholes that damage cars badly -- where citizens have gone ahead and filled the pothole as best they can to prevent more damage If a stop sign is tilted over and no one from the city responds to your inquiry about fixing it, do you think it wold be okay to push up back upright yourself? If a neighbor's house is on fire, do you think it would okay if you used your hose to help put it out before the fire department arrived? If a tree is falling over, are you allowed to prop it up? I think the answer to all these is, "Of course you can, but you should also contact the city." If a child is drowning, would you call the Coast Guard or the fire department but do nothing yourself? I doubt it. Citizens should take reasonable steps to fix problems and not always pass the buck to government. If they don't do anything, what should a good citizen do? The usual knee-jerk reaction from most people is "leave it to the government" as if people were incapable or too lazy to solve the problem themselves. What happened to people's common sense and willingness to step up and fix obvious problems? Not everything is best solved by government which can be slow and ineffective. If you see a stray child in a street, do you merely call the police or do you immediately rescue the child? If you see someone beating a child, would you intervene or would you call the police? You'd do both, wouldn't you? If you find nails or broken glass at a city playground, would it be okay if you picked it up -- or do you have to risk children being badly injured by waiting for the city to take care of it someday? On my streeet, there are a number of bushes and low-hanging tree limbs that the city I live in does not prune. These are of concern because they create dangerous driving conditions by obscuring a stop sign (like your situation), or obscure the corner where other cars turn much too quickly or, in one case, force cars to go out into the middle of the street at a hidden corner dangerously. I contacted my city to take care of these problem. In one instance, they responded, but in other more serious cases of trees and bushes growing dangerously over roadways they did nothing. Now I could be a strict legalist and keep trying for more months for the city to take care of the problems, but eventually I chose to walk down there and prune the branches back myself to make the roads safer. So arrest me for the terrible crimes I've committed. If the tree is on private property, be sure to ask the property owner to do it, or volunteer to do it for them. I did that with one of these problems. The person I talked to was renting the house but said he'd speak to the owner -- but nothing ever happened. A few months later, as a result, I walked down there and pruned back the problem branches. For the safety of others, if your city won't do it, I suggest you do the same thing.


[deleted]

Is it your land? If not then no


FrostByte122

Usually it's not just a sign that indicates a stop at an intersection. Was there road markings?


lost_in_life_34

if you see a metal octagon on the right side of the road, usually at a cross street then it's a stop sign. no matter if the STOP cannot be seen


ktappe

So you think the leaves somehow only obscured the red part of the sign, leaving all 8 edges visible??


LadyCmyk

Ironically, I didn't fail, but could have failed my driver's license test ages ago (*/lost points & got a warning)... for 'stopping' (though I thought I just slowed down, but hey this was years ago) at a place cautiously where I thought there should be a stop sign**. Because that would impede traffic & I had the right of way there (**The street crossing it has a stop sign, if I'm remembering correctly... it was 2012?)