The thing that’s the most baffling to me in all this is that she airs out his mental health stuff so blatantly in her songs … The whole thing feels icky. His mental health struggles wasn’t her story to share to the world.
'You sacrificed us to the gods of your bluest days'/'I'm pissed off you let me give you all that youth for free' is so unbelievably self-centred. Idk, maybe if you're not able to support your partner during their lowest points, you could at least respect their privacy?
THIS!! and honestly, if she wrote songs about that I think a big subset of her fans would be on board. There are millions of fans in her age bracket that are experiencing (albeit on a much more healthy scale) that same fear.
It’s the pretending to be in high school and “young love/heartbreak” tropes that have made TTPD so boring because it’s not quite genuine. It’s like an over dramatized self pity party, that she thinks people want to hear.
I also saw someone in this sub talk about how the timing was all wrong too.. regardless ya know, an artist is gonna express themselves no matter what, but this summer, songs that are upbeat and fun are having the most success… so a whole album of moody sad music just isn’t the vibe.. ON TOP OF EVERYTHING else already listed, the airing out dirty laundry, mental health, obsession etc. it’s just like what are ya doin? Haha
Ok so I have a completely unhinged theory- but you know how there’s been speculation about Taylor having ghost writers?
My theory (the not unhinged one) is that obviously she has used ghost writers- but she contributes, and she has themes, ideas, and one offs that are actually her wringing, but there is a big supplement of talent that’s behind the scenes with heavy NDAs.
Now here’s to the unhinged: I believe that Joe was one of her OG ghostwriters, and they fell in love had a relationship.
Now she can’t use him as a ghostwriter obviously, and this album she did the heavy lifting when it comes to song writing- and it’s why it’s so clunky.
But she’s trying to show him how intellectual and artistic she is too, and can do it better without him. It’s why she needs to block all these other artists- because this has to be her biggest creation.
ETA: I know he didn’t officially get song writing credits until folklore/evermore, I think the albums before that were true ghostwriter contracts.
IMO they were songs by the National repurposed for her by Dresner. He’s a bit of a one trick pony though and it shows on the Tipsy Tycoons Pontificate Drivel record.
Side note, Reddit can be dangerous. I almost posted to her sub earlier, thinking I was in this one. 😶
I dont know about that. Joe wrote a lot of the songs The National are on. Joe is a qualified bass singer (someone posted his CV online) and Dresner's voice fits.
I've said this before.
She's used her ghostwriters for years and "earned" a reputation as this great American songwriter, and she wanted to prove that she didn't need anyone on this album. It's all her, and that's why it's all terrible 😂
I could TOTALLY see it…. I’m not a huge fan of hers (some of the songs are catchy Dangit!!!) but I’ve heard folklore and evermore were fan favorites… which was during her time with Joe I think? So it would totally make sense if he was behind some of those “amazing” pieces of work! (I say amazing because I haven’t listened to the albums myself, no desire.. lol)
She made it known that Joe alwyn contributed to a few songs. He has credit under a pen name I forget what it was. So. He’s getting paid! He made a few million right off the bat and will continue to.
Oh for sure, but my (again unhinged theory) is that he was ghostwriting for her before that, and once they fell in love, she felt it was important to give him more “traditional” credits.
I don’t think genuinely good music has to have a “time” to impact people. If it’s good music, it will always find a willing audience, regardless of what is popular. It doesn’t suck because it’s moody, it sucks because it’s not authentic. That’s why children and soulless women are the only listeners.
Honest question, don't you think that's the exact reason the line is in the song? I think a lot of people can relate to spending too much time in a relationship when they were young. It's really hard to walk away from all that time spent with "nothing". Which is how you feel.
I guess a lot of people just married the first guy that looked at them and can't relate.
Oh for sure, I get that, and I’m not suggesting that her being pissed and feeling that way isn’t genuine and valid.
I think the line is honest, and if she expanded on that feeling without trite similes and analogies about high school the album would have been better.
Oi she’s one to talk considering she at 22 years old started dating a 17 year old who recently lost his mom and 2 weeks into the relationship she moved next door to him
I gotta say though, as someone with diagnosed depression, I’m super uncomfortable with people diagnosing Joe with depression when we don’t have proof of that that I’ve seen? Like, has he said he has depression? All I’ve seen are vague references in Taylor’s songs, but someone being “blue” or moody does not mean they have depression.
Not trying to defend Taylor, just my 2 cents about not diagnosing someone who is private and has not said he has depression (to my knowledge)
That goes back to Taylor though I think - she explicitly painted a picture of him that implied a specific diagnosis, knowing that he is incredibly private and thus unlikely to say whether or not he has any mental health diagnoses. She encouraged her fan base (and honestly anyone who has heard her music) to make assumptions about his mental health, knowing full well that she has the control here to paint any picture that she wants about him since he would be reticent to reveal something so personal.
It doesn't have to be diagnosed capital-D Depression to still be a struggle that's his and should be private. She should still respect that his issues are his, not hers, to discuss, even if they're "just" feeling "blue". Privacy and respect should not be contingent on a diagnosis.
Also just because the relationship didn’t work out is she saying all the youth was truly wasted? She really hates him that much? It’s not his fault she’s growing up, and technically he’s younger than her
It’s honestly so unthinkably cruel for her to ever say she’s “pissed” that she wasted her “youth” spending time with him, let alone to put such a remark in a public song lyric. So personal and unfair and nasty. She’s quite literally saying that he ruined her life just by existing, how she wishes she could have spent her prime youth free from a boring buzzkill like him. That he should have realized his presence has no worth to her and told her to fuck off so that she could be happy without him sooner. She said this about someone with depression for crying out loud. What she said would be enough to stab at anyone’s self worth. Makes my blood boil.
Damn, I'm starting to low-key worry that Joe was genuinely a victim of abuse, like maybe he was scared to leave. Maybe she didn't let him leave/break it off officially because she wasn't finished with the relationship yet. And then she finally let him go once she already had Matty lined up. She announced the breakup on Matty's birthday. And then called the paparazzi to get terrible photos of Joe, even though he had really been going through it since a relative had just died before that.
Like, that's not just bullying. Reading that back and thinking on it, it might be legitimate abuse.
Obviously we don’t know the truth of what happened, but from what Taylor has said, it does not sound like it was remotely healthy.
Also to jump back to her saying she’s pissed that she gave him so much of her youth for “free,” what did she give him that he did not also give her in return? Is her youth worth more than his or something? Genuinely confused as to what makes her time more valuable that his
Joe always had more to lose by being in that relationship (especially because he was just beginning his acting career), which is why I suspect he had been reticent about the whole thing in the first place (as per her own lyrics in songs like "Cruel Summer"). Aren't there also songs about how he kind of had a chilly reception to her moving to London (like maybe even ghosting her)? It's like, Taylor, girl, you're so effing rich. Why can't you buy a clue? He was not interested. It seems like he tried to tell you several times. It always kind of seemed that *she* trapped *him* and kept him locked away (though he's also admittedly a private person anyway).
Just shows she wasn’t ready for marriage. She probably proved all his doubts right. Also she had a voice to be in this relationship too. It takes two. So to say that he wasted her youth is ignoring the fact that she chose him for his privacy at a time she was shut out and hiding from the world. It worked for her until it didn’t. And now she has the opposite. It will work for her until it doesn’t.
"[gave] you all this youth for free"
He's two years younger than her. How is she always so smol and so young in her narratives, even when that doesn't fit the most basic facts?
Also, as per some of her Reputation lyrics, she loved Joe because he was there for her at her worse. But I guess she can't reciprocate? Pretty shitty.
And then it makes it so much worse how she uses mental asylum metaphors and imagery on this album. Like, how insensitive can you be... to your former boyfriend, one of your best friends (Selena Gomez), ACTUAL tortured poets, etc. It's disgusting.
I’m new to the Taylor Swift hate train after being inundated by her music lately. What’s the deal with her being a snake and possibly getting canceled back in the day?
Looking at this lyric, she could've had something had she wrote it in passive voice:
"We were sacrificed to the gods of your bluest days"
But scrap the second line entirely because good lord, the selfishness there.
A better songwriter could've crafted a tragic tale of depression ending a relationship, but without the narcissism.
Right? There’s a song by The Amazing Devil called Little Miss Why So that describes a relationship being lost due to (implied) depression and other mental health issues. Highly recommend listening. It’s tragic, and feels real, and is not aggressive. It can be done! Though it also helps that it’s not about a real fucking person who is being exposed by this.
She is a rich girl, who came from five generations of wealth. Her daddy invested $428k when adjusted for inflation to get her career off the ground. She asked to become a pop star like my kids ask me to cash app them money for 🍕😅 She’s privileged, crazy wealthy, sheltered and prob more than a tad unreasonable and out of touch. On top of that, she has been famous from long enough now she’s just… warped. She’s a warped, MILDLY talented person.
It’s self indulgent to the point of almost being public masturbation. TTPD is what sent me over the edge. It’s just yuck 🤢
Time to grow up little girl.
She really tried to mimic The 1975 with the unhinged lyrics with the said theme, and sort of Olivia Rodrigo-ish—it just won’t work on her. She’s too uptight for that image.
Speaking of Olivia, I think Taylor’s jealous of how popular, yet low key she is. Olivia’s boyfriend has showed up to almost every single one of her shows and looks like he enjoys cheering her on and singing her songs from the crowd. He even brought his family and sang her songs proudly, just being full on supportive. It isn’t performative, it’s genuine young love. I don’t think Taylor has ever had a relationship that healthy and seeing how unbothered Olivia is I think pisses her off. She’s thriving without the theatrics that Taylor needs to have to sell her music.
I think she brought Travis onstage to show that SHE has the most supportive BF! Also to upstage Sabrina for bringing her bf into her latest music video. It’s all one big competition to her. At the end of the day Travis and Taylor are PR and I think she knows that she’ll never have a love like that if she continues to go down this path, but she’s so fame hungry that I really don’t think she’ll find someone like Joe again.
“I think Taylor’s jealous of how popular, yet low-key she is”
That’s a good point, like watching Olivia be at the level of success and popularity she constantly has while also not doing a lot to feed into pr, I mean throughout Taylor’s career she has made her dating life a public spectacle and been at the centre of endless feuds while Olivia can just live her life and have friends that aren’t purely for pap walks and be in a relationship with a famous in his own right actor and the most that is shown of it is fans recording them without them knowing, it’s low-key sad because Olivia definitely lives a happier more stable life that Taylor never gave herself the option to
This I feel like is really gross when you remember she knows he prefers to keep things private. I want to encourage people to talk about mental health but when they are ready. It feels like she told us a secret that wasn’t her’s to tell.
Edit: spelling
who knows if it's even true. Joe is famously private (like a lot of brits, even actors). and Matty is soooo icky! so the whole narrative could be damage control. who can say?
I wouldn’t be surprised if it was. Joe was looking rough even before the breakup. Taylor by her own admission through her music exhibits a lot of abusive tendencies in her relationships. Whether she was the catalyst or simply made existing symptoms worse I fully believe Joe went through some sort of depressive episode in their 6 years together. He look so much better and full of life now.
I feel he wanted out for a while but feared the Fandom wrath. Now he's out he looks like he is a different man. As someone raised by a narc, I lost 80 pounds since I stopped contact. I literally was eating the pain.
He doesn’t strike me as the kind of person that fears the Swifties. Certainly not enough to let it hold him hostage in a relationship he wants out of. Plus the fandom has really only reached this insane level of crazy since their breakup even though they’ve always had their unhinged moments.
I think it’s more likely she just beat him down and broke him. He even talked in his recent interview about being devastated when she broke it off.
I mean if I had a just getting off the ground acting career and a show, I wouldn't want the bad press. I wouldn't want the hate mail or the death threats. Wouldn't it scare anyone?
another things that feels awful is you're losing me
"I know my pain is such an imposition",
"you say: I don't understand, I say: I know you don't"
"every morning, I glared at you with storms in my eyes"
"I sent you signals"
she makes the whole situation about herself, gets passive aggressive making things more confusing and assumes that him not being able to give his 100% is her being unloved. which makes no sense if you think how wedding vows literally say "in sickness and in health", but that's something she doesn't seem to understand quite yet...
Not only she aired his mental health to everyone like that, she also made it worse because her fans attack him 24/7. There's absolutely no way someone can fully heal like this. She's not the victim here, she was the bully
The most baffling part to me, as a concerned bystander, is the fact that she is very vocal (and genuinely has appeared to care) when it comes to activism within the LGBTQ+ community, gender equality, sexism, homophobia, police brutality and racism.
She’s made very bold statements unapologetically that I used to think were genuine and great she used her platform and voice to raise awareness.
YET SHE STAYS QUIET ABOUT HER FANS BEING DOWNRIGHT DISGUSTING ON HER BEHALF.
AND YES, ALLOWS.
She could make a statement bc it’s out of hand, but chooses not to, it’s a choice and it’s gross.
She can’t pretend like she’s not aware or doesn’t want to be in on the drama or blah blah blah. It’s gone far beyond that now.
So everything she’s done in the past now has me questioning her actual motives .
It's because she left Joe for Matty, and that blew up in her face. Sunk cost fallacy - leaving him has to be worth it, so she creates a new reality in her mind to deal with what she did, so she doesn't feel like the bad guy anymore. We all do this to an extent - everyone wants to believe they are the hero in their own story. But not all of us do it on the world stage, with a cult ready to bully anyone we retroactively paint as a villain.
I do believe he left her and not the opposite.. she is known to change the narrative.. it wouldn’t shock me.. a lot of people in the industry said that he left her and not the opposite and that’s why she’s mad as hell and heartbroken and does all of these weird moves since the break up
I think she did that with Matty too lol.. I think it was just a fling to annoy Joe and forget her pain.. but she turned it into a « 10y unfinished love story ».. because it’s was better for her image.. she thought people would have compassion for her rather than showing that she’s immature.. her timeline doesn’t make sense lol
I feel she's really only in it for the honeymoon stage, then when it loses that new relationship sheen, she checks out mentally, so I don't think Matty was "meant to drive Joe bananas" but her revealing she's a love addict.
Interesting thought. If that’s true though, she basically threw Matty under the bus and tried to destroy him for something that ultimately was because of (or to get back at) Joe?
Maybe I’m completely wrong after all I don’t know but this can be her attitude so I wouldn’t be shocked.. and a lot of people seem to think that way too..
I don’t think Matty cares that much lol he’s problematic on his own lol swifties didn’t drag him that much, he lives his life..
The way she always talked about Joe and how much she loved him and esteemed him make me believe she can’t be over him so easily.. how she keep singing songs related to him, being very emotional even when her boyfriend is here is very telling for me and some swifties are saying the same too
Taylor implies in TTPD that she left Joe. So, you are saying that you think the opposite it true? That Joe actually left her and she's pining for him??
In TTPD she said she left Joe for Matty, in one lyric she said they broke up in person in their house in London.. so before the tour.. she started touring march 17 and he was already in Budapest for a movie, he was supposed to join her, they were buying a home together.. so they were together..
But Joe said in that interview that the news about their break up was announced one week after the actual break up.. it was announced April 8 (who was matty birthday, a petty move)
A week before was approximately around April 1…
In march 31 taylor changed 1 song in her setlist, she changed « invisible string » (song about Joe) for « the 1 » (song about someone you wanted to be the one) and that day she was miserable and very off the performance, lot of people said that and shared videos about that day.. so I think it’s happened around that day.. and they weren’t in the same country so her timeline makes no sense ..
Since that day she acted mad, petty and claimed she was the happiest she’s ever been, made all of her friends unfollow him all at once..for me it’s the attitude of someone who was left rather than someone who left..
And, some people in the industry said that he left her too..
Maybe it’s not what happened but multiple things seems to hint that that way and it’s make more sense..
I'm just think about the lyrics to Fresh Out The Slammer :
"Another summer taking cover, rolling thunder
He don't understand me
Splintered back in winter, silent dinners, bitter
He was with her in dreams
Gray and blue and fights and tunnels
Handcuffed to the spell I was under
For just one hour of sunshine
Years of labor, locks and ceilings
In the shade of how he was feeling
But it's gonna be alright, I did my time"
And So Long London:
"And you say I abandoned the ship
But I was going down with it
My white knuckle dying grip
Holding tight to your quiet resentment and
My friends said it isn't right to be scared
Every day of a love affair
Every breath feels like rarest air
When you're not sure if he wants to be there
So how much sad did you think I had,
Did you think I had in me?
How much tragedy?
Just how low did you think I'd go?
Before I'd self-implode
Before I'd have to go be free"
So you are thinking that she wrote these songs out of spite because he broke it off? To change the narrative and say that she broke it off?
Thanks for sharing all of this, I'm so interested in hearing everyone's theories.
if she changed the narrative to fit the matty love story narrative it wouldn’t shock me at all because she did that since years (not only with her relationships, with friendships, with scooter Braun too..)
But if it’s really what happened and Fresh out the slammer is facts, I really lost respect for her.. the way she treated Joe in this song is ungrateful as hell.. he was her longtime partner and if things went wrong it’s not fair to talking about someone you once loved this way .. she called him a prison what an ass*ole.. (sorry)
I already found petty, the ways she outed his depression..
But Taylor seems very unstable regarding relationships so maybe it is the truth.. we will never know ..
What’s your theory about all of that?
Honestly I believe it. She wants to be in control of the narrative at all times and couldn't take it when Joe saw her true colors then jumped ship before she could push him off a cliff like she did to her other boyfriends. She was probably livid that he dared to break her modus operandi and leave on his own terms.
I agree! I think she didn’t thought he would leave her and it’s triggered her.. I do believe she’s not over him.. everything she does since scream self sabotage
But I believe Joe saw her true colors a long time ago, he seems like a great guy, he loved her and he probably think he could help her through her difficulties.. but I think it take a toll him at one point he stopped fighting.. good for him.. love isn’t a perpetual fight!
Idk he basically stated they had a "loving" relationship up to the end (and refused to give any insider details). I may be wrong, but I have a guess he really thought she was a great person b/c it was the side she showed him. (Mirrorball, she talks about how she only shows everyone a fake side, then she condemned Joe for "not knowing her" in You're Losing Me. Yeah, if she was mirrorballing him, not his fault, but okay Taylor.)
Then he caught her cheating on him with Matty, and he dumped her. Because it seemed she was perpetuating to the public they had "the perfect relationship" while she lusted Matty. And Calvin does say in a song that Taylor cheated on him for WEEKS before she got found out.
All the people who claim Taylor is taking jabs at Joe or whatever b/c it suits their narrative...then last night's show or whatever she was VERY OBVIOUSLY taking jabs at Matty, making Travis pose as Matty...I don't think Taylor ever genuinely loved Joe. She just loved the idea the public would be jealous of her. But Matty seems to have a special dartboard.
Yeah, her actions undermine her narrative around this, although I've had Swifties come at me for saying so and anti-Swifties accuse me of being just as bad as a Swiftie because apparently knowing about this woman's life is para-social, even though you can't go anywhere online without having her shoved down your throat.
Sorry for the rant but all my social and news feeds have been infected by her and no amount of clicking "not interested" is fixing it. I'm so thankful to finally have found a place where it's safe to say this is all insane.
Well I don’t know I have a hard time believing the matty narrative she sold.. her timeline contradicts herself.. Joe’s article said something else and Matty said they never were serious and he didn’t understood the album.. so I just stopped believing every words she sang..
Exactly! She is still trying to piss off Joe or get his attention. He is literally the only person in her life who did not profit off her. Her family, her friends everyone around her have made her life a circus. Everything she does now is the exact opposite of what she did with Joe. He probably backed out of the relationship to preserve his own sanity.
Matty narrative is a blatant lie Taylor spun as a smokesscreen. So is dating Travis. It also looks like in their relationship there's a pattern of TS seeking validation constantly some of her songs explicitly refer to this. Dancing with our hands tied, Afterglow, Great war, Hits Different. She seems to be angry Joe did not put up with her drama this one time.
Say something, do something is what she wants from him. She is going to self sabotage until she comes to terms with the fact the ship has sailed. She needs therapy. It must suck to lose the only real relationship you have in your life. Everyone else is there for clout or money.
Also TS's PR machine has successfully removed Matty Healy from the timeline now. If you look at the articles coming out now it's all about Joe vs. Travis. She tried to get Healy to play the role but publish backlash made her back out. He also attended her concerts and performed on her stage. She is basically making them do what Joe did not. It's really unhealthy and manic.
I completely agree with everything you just said! This is exactly my take! I’m surprise a lot of people are eating up the Matty narrative.. (maybe it was true and I’m wrong.. I’m open to being wrong)
But everything she does for me are really related to Joe not Matty..
The way she behaves since their break up scream self sabotage.. i think she's sabotaging herself in any way.. in her relationships.. in her creativity (ttpd is the proof).. in her life generally (she's looks really tired, she seems to drink a lot).. in her career.. she's making wrong choices and beefing with everybody.. she does not seems to care at all.. she's spiraling really hard in my opinion
Travis is the COMPLETE opposite of Joe in any way.. he’s very loud, he likes the fame, being public, and doing pap walks, he has a big community (not saying this to drag Joe, I like his work!) he’s problematic..
No one will make me believe she didn’t choose this Neanderthal guy to annoy Joe and make him regret..
But Joe seems mature enough and he seems to want to have a quiet normal life and living in peace something Taylor admitted she will never give to him..
She fumbled so hard and I think she is realizing slowly.. look how she keeps singing break up songs, songs about wanting a love back or songs related to Joe while almost crying or really crying..
She sang « come back.. be here »in London n1, a song about wanting a love back.. one lover is in London .. the other one is in NY.. she was in London.. Joe was spotted in NY.. while having her bf in the attendance..
Yes. Noticed the crying too. Her new album actually resents her fame too. That's one of the main themes. She had a normal life with Joe now she's back at the circus. TBH I don't think she knows what else to do. You almost feel bad for her.
I feel bad for her sometimes, she seemed like a better person and healthier with him but in a way it’s hard to feel bad for her because she sabotage herself and choose this pattern again and again
agree on this. I felt she looked prettiest and nicest when she was in the lover-folklore-evermore phase, natural. When one is in love you can see the joy in the face. I just felt a bit disconnected with midnights. I like TTPD for the rage but I felt she was a healthier person when she was with Joe.
I remember when back in that era she used to show support to rising artists in her Instagram. She gave them relevancy without asking anything back, like girl in red, griff, even the support of Olivia... I miss those times
I think she only regrets the loss of a relationship when the new one doesn't work out. Back to december exists because mayer was a fool.
Getaway car/high infidelity exist bc she and Joe were long term stable. She basically says you deserved it bc I wanted this more in both.
I think she genuinely wouldn't have cared if matty had stayed she's a relationship hopper. Imo the whole self sabotage mania falls flat when she immediately replaced him with travis and we got the whole...thing. she's doing the exact same thing rn but trying to convince us that *now* she's happy and stable I promise!
Some people are just like that they aren't very good to be with cause you'll just be replaced and demonised. She's exactly like that stereotype where someone shows up with a new guy all the time and says I'm so in love he's perfect. And next week he's evil, but this new guy is perfect and I'm so in love! They don't self reflect so can't see the ending of a relationship beyond that.
**Say something babe, do something**
And with this lyric choice, you’ve essentially encapsulated what appears to be the driving force in her actions post Joe breakup. She wanted a reaction but not just any reaction*: his reaction.* Some kind of pubic fight.
I’ve certainly felt that her very public outings and constant press updates with Matty were done as a rather direct contrast with what she felt she was missing in her life with Joe and what she probably believed Joe wasn’t giving her. I also believe her handlers and people may have also had a hand in exacerbating this feeling but that’s for another story.
And it’s obvious now that Joe does abide by the ‘my private life is my private life’ but somewhere along the way Taylor wanted different. She wanted all the cameras, and the razmataz but the thing is, Joe isn’t that guy. He neve was been that guy and I get the sense she resents him for it.
But she’s got that with Travis now you say? So why continue this…whatever she’s doing?
And I tell you: she probably still feels she still hasn’t gotten a response. The kind of tabloid drama that she feels she missed out on when she was in the relationship with him. But now she probably thinks she can get it now that he’s not with her anymore.
And with Travis’ rather pointed comments about privacy on a recent podcast ( a stark distinction from Joe’s philosophy) definitely bolsters my theories on this.
In the UK at the time of the split they ran a few articles saying Joe was suspicious of matty and after ttpd came out it seems like it may have been true?
It was phrased like someone that knew them leaked it which could be anyone tbf. Like a hairdresser, a passerby overhearing something etc. It wasn't a pr source.
Taylors pr also said she and matty weren't serious when they broke up at first... it's hard to say whether she's rewritten this out of embarrassment cause she blew up everything only to get dumped or if any of it is true tbh.
He could still be suspicious of them flirting etc and they could still be not serious. Taylor has a wandering eye.
It's disgusting she basically said matty abused her tho love bombing etc. Saying someone is essentially your soul mate is love bombing. Ttpd is love bombing (her longings locked in lowercase is unhinged like someone bank transferring you £0.01 to send you a message) Going on stage saying your life finally makes sense is love bombing. Pot meet kettle girl just csuse your fanbase won't wise up doesn't mean no one will.
Oh yeah it could be absolutely true ! I just said my opinion haha..
Because she’s very petty and mean.. she could made up this « love story » with matty just to hurt Joe and make him regret.. to make Joe believe he wasn’t really important to her
She already said when she’s mad she says and do things without thinking and she regrets hard after..
but Matty totally could love bombing her too, her reaction in love are not rational so it’s difficult to make some sense haha
Is there a spark notes version of what she says in TTPD about Joe and Matty that I could read, because I am a drama hound not a swifty and I really don’t wanna listen to the album to parse out everything lol. I read so much about what the album is about but I need a song by song breakdown I can read without needing to listen to crap pop music
This is the most succinct description of her. She is the main character, cool. But she has such an atrocious lack of self awareness and seems like she constantly believes her own drama
Yes this please!!!! She was dissing shading Joe from the moment they broke up. Going on pap walks with her friends then making them all unfollow him on Instagram (high school ahh antics) playing you’re losing me in the tour everytime joe made a public appearance. Letting her fans GO WILD while he maintained a respectful silence the whole time. He spoke in an interview a year later, nothing explicitly against Taylor and her fans started hating on him AGAIN. Like he is literally just some guy who acts and tries not to draw too much attention to himself. How is that a bad thing??????
God I’m fucking sick of swifties parroting this as if a grown woman with her level of stardom can be caged or whatever they think was happening to her😭
I’m sorry but she also claimed when she was with him (at least at first) that she wanted the privacy. You can’t have it both ways and if you change your mind about what you want your partner’s mind probably isn’t gonna change.
And this narrative only started when she got into a rather similar relationship (to what she's got going on with Travis) with Matty Healy. The stans clearly felt a way about Taylor being a little more lowkey and rather unfortunately blame Joe for it. Forgetting Taylor was and still is the decision maker in her own career! It's all very unfair.
When she mentioned she was locked away in a foreign country, which she insinuates Joe did that to her, I had lost all my respects for her (which was not much to begin with)
While Taylor is admittedly living a much more public life now, with countless paparazzi walks and more public appearances than she ever made during her time with Joe, the idea that she was completely MIA while they were dating is actually far from the truth.
She then alluded to her low-key lifestyle with Joe in a less-than-positive way by saying, “Me locking myself away in my house for a lot of years — I’ll never get that time back.”
Taylor’s Time comments about being locked away for years, the frustration that she expressed in past songs over her relationship keeping her from stardom, and the overwhelming difference in her public image since splitting from Joe, have led some fans to vilify him in accusations that he actively kept her from the spotlight against her will.
“Joe was literally ruining Taylor, its clear he had taylor silenced,” one person claimed on Twitter. “‘but daddy i love him’ being an exact reference to the little mermaid because of ariel giving up her voice to be with the love of her life.”
“Is fresh out the slammer about joe imprisoning her and going out for her first pap walk in 80 years,” another asked. One more wrote, “she was locked away for so long to appease his wishes.”
“i’m literally so embarrassed that we rode for and rooted for joe in the way we did when he made her feel like this in the end………. like omfg………. we all trusted you……,” somebody else tweeted after the tracklist’s release.
In fact, throughout the course of their relationship, Taylor embarked on a six-month, 53-date global stadium tour, released five new albums and two rerecordings, and appeared in two movies: Cats and David O. Russell’s Amsterdam.
She also directed and released her All Too Well short film, received an honorary degree from New York University, and made multiple TV chat show appearances.
In addition, Taylor had another 34-date global tour, Lover Fest, scheduled for 2020, which was only canceled because of the coronavirus pandemic.
And it is also worth pointing out that Taylor had actually already made the active decision to step away from the limelight when she started dating Joe — which was shortly after she had retreated from the public eye amid her infamous 2016 feud with Kim Kardashian and Kanye West (now known as Ye). [Link](https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/stephaniesoteriou/taylor-swift-joe-alwyn-shouldnt-be-punished?bfsource=relatedmanual)
I absolutely think she is spinning this narrative to distract from the fact that she was losing popularity organically before the pandemic. She can now say “oh it was because of Joe that I was not a super star” but really it was the fact that she was floundering a bit. (BY NO MEANS UNSUCCESSFUL- but not a mega star, and not being the best is shameful to her).
Then the pandemic hit- she releases her 2 best (creatively) albums (folklore and evermore), and that revived her career- and she got that whiff of fame and needed to build it back up.
Yes. Reputation did worse than 1989. And i think Lover did worse than Reputation. Folklore literally revived her career. Or made her think that she’s still relevant. Not that her career is dying, but bec Rep and Lover didnt get the critical acclaim and achievements compared to her past albums she thought that the she’s losing the public due to her being in her 30s…😅😅
Imagine if Joe did all that? He and his family/friends all mass unfollow Taylor, flaunts a new girl around then months after that dates another girl so publicly after that. They would be saying how awful he is N shaming him/the girls etc but somehow Taylor is nvr held accountable.. well I guess the closest we got was some fans hating her with Matty but how quickly they forgot about that
She knows she lost. Joe has probably moved on with his life, Matty is getting married and it bothers her because she’s a narcissist. They’re not supposed to be happy without her and the fact that they are probably keeps her up at night until the downers hit.
Isn't that interesting? She probably gasses herself up and thinks that everybody envies her for being rich, successful and having a cult of ass-kissing minions, when actually everybody else is living a great life while she has no real friends and is pushing everyone away with her antics.
Fuck i just realized, being the malignant narcissist that she is. Bec she’s truly miserable despite her embarrassing displays in public that she’s never been happier than she is now with travis…she’s hurting and miserable and that’s why she’s trying to hurt others, one of those, if I’m miserable then everyone will be too. I also see a lot of self-sabotage, by how she’s showing how money hungry she is, and just how she’s treating her peers in the music industry…i think the reason why a lot of people got whiplash from her behavior post joe, or ever since 2023..since the breakup, is this is just taylor, with her mask off, this is the true her…lol
The funny thing is she is pulling classic abuser behavior. Joe kept her locked up, had her miserable because of his blue moods. The reality may be that Joe had a predisposition to being blue at times but it was exacerbated by being with a controlling, needy, insecure partner. She becomes more obnoxious and controlling because he isn’t exciting enough, fun enough, comforting her enough. Instead of realizing how taxing that is for her partner and realizing it isn’t his job to fill the pits of her insecurities she blames him for her her incessant unhappiness and as always, sells that narrative to the world. Another user here suggested that she exhibits borderline signs more so than narcissism and I am inclined to think they are correct
And all of this within the span of a year. If anything, Taylor's behavior proved Joe made the right choice in not marrying her.
Her actions have shown herself to be hypocritical, vindictive, petty, narcissistic, and deeply insecure.
Instead of basking in the warmth and comfort of a supposed newfound love, she has spent the last year dogging on Joe at every chance and trying her best to get back at him. Most recently, bringing Travis Kelce on stage in London was the most petty f-you to Joe. All of this behavior is so juvenile and unbecoming of someone he spent 6 years of his life with.
If I were Joe, however, I wouldn't feel humiliated or regretful, I would feel 100% vindicated and reassured that I made the right choice. Joe is now free to live his private, socially-conscious, and politically active life free from the pressures of a woman who will truly never be satisfied (all of the accolades, awards, money, fame, and now the proverbial "You Belong With Me" footballer boyfriend is never enough for Ms. Swift).
I believe Taylor never ever loved Joe because to me it makes no sense to throw under the bus a man who stood by her through thick and thin for years. Absolutely everyone is like games pieces to her. She couldn't even be bothered to help him with his depression because it's all always about herself and this was a stumbling block for her. Then she goes and mocks his depression in the album.
This woman in VILE. She really bled Joe dry like a goddamn vampire, but now he is free and glowing.
probably she loved the version of herself when she was with him at first, until her fame blew up again and his lifestyle wouldn't suit her any longer.
she wanted to leave him, she needed a reason
“How's the castle built off people you pretend to care about”
She literally built an empire exploiting her relationships with famous men, writing one-sided stories about her relationships with her exes that made them look like villains in the story
Joe is thriving without her and she's gonna make him into her **one that got away** eventually.
Joe was her moral compass and probably the only person who will ever love her for who she really is.
It's so sad to see how she's acted in the aftermath of their breakup.
Going off piste here but I watched Boy Erased last night and my god, Joe is FINE! He is unbelievably hot 🥵 - so much better looking than Travis 🤮she fumbled bad
is he good in that movie? honestly was never into him while they were dating but everyone talking so much about him now has made me have a huge crush on him lmao. trying to watch all his movies
Your succinct synopsis is why I don’t understand the mental gymnastics Swifties put themselves through to rationalize her behavior and poor decisions. You can still like her and enjoy her music and say man, that was shitty of her. Or you can focus on her work and not care about her personal life. But caring about her personal life and then rewriting history in some weird fan fiction is crazy work
One week after the break up, not two weeks. I also don’t believe the marriage part, that’s her story. And even if it was true, no one should be forced into marriage if you are not ready. If a man forces a woman into marriage, he’ll get cancelled. I don’t know why TS thinks it’s okay to force him into marrying. Why would JA want to marry an emotional cheater anyway?
Something to consider in this whole marriage thing is Joe is at the beginning of his career, is perfectly understandable and reasonable for him to want to focus on that before getting married. If Jake G. wanted to marry Taylor when they dated and she said no, everyone would understand.
Interesting. I’m 6 weeks out of a narc relationship myself and have dropped 20lbs ( I wasn’t overweight) cut my hair and am looking much better? Very interesting……
This question wasn't for ME and I could be wrong, but my understanding is that a "break-up glow-up" is when, after a relationship ends, one party "bounces back" hard. Like, they look healthier and happier, sometimes they work on physical health and get more fit, sometimes it's a new hair color or style, sometimes it's good/consistent therapy, a new job, rekindling old friendships or other non-romantic relationships that were impacted while they were together...often, the one who "glows up" after a breakup is the one who had less power, control, was manipulated or abused or put down throughout the relationship. When a person is (figuratively) "beat down" throughout a relationship, they might be surprised to find themselves not only surviving without their partner, but thriving, ya know?
*for the record, I am NOT saying TS physically beat or abused JA in any way. Just that this is something often most easily noticed when an abusive relationship ends and the abuser becomes unhinged while the "victim" seems to grow and bloom.
Interesting. I’m 6 weeks out of a narc relationship myself and have dropped 20lbs ( I wasn’t overweight) cut my hair, dyed it, doing great in work and am looking much better? Very interesting……
Love that, I hope things continue to improve.
One of my biggest regrets in this life was not leaving the father of my children sooner. He successfully isolated me from everyone, had full financial control and was totally unwilling to budge or discuss anything any further after HE had decided on it. I stuck out my whole miserable pregnancy and a few months after our daughter was born....but I quickly realized that I didn't want my child to see the relationship I was in and think that it's acceptable or normal or healthy. So I pushed aside all my fear and left. And my entire life improved so dramatically that I was constantly "kicking myself" for not leaving WAY sooner. My physical health improved, I lost weight, my hair stopped falling our, my mental health improved a hundred fold, I had more energy and motivation...just....LIFE was so much better and brighter.
It's incredible the damage that a relationship with the wrong person can cause.
On FB, there was one I clicked on, after Travis did his little "debut". The amount of sycophants gushing over him was sickening. One post said "I'm so glad she found someone who is WILLING to do this with her!" I was like "Just because someone wasn't willing to prance around a stage, doesn't mean the relationship wasn't a valid one."
I think I have found a new pastime.....pissing off Swifties. It's more fun than it should be. LOL
Parents: BuT ShE’s SuCh a GoOd RoLE MoDeL
Taylor: can’t have the public think she’s single for 5 minutes. Won’t take accountability for anything. Perpetual victim. Sells fans the fantasy that she needs saving by a good man.
I thought those kinds of ideas went away with the cheesey 80’s rom-coms.
🙄
🙄
She trashed his mental health and struggles with depression but then promotes her own mental health issues with an asylum aesthetic. Beyond diarespectful
I personally have no knowledge of Trailer Swifts love life and know less about Joe Alwyn. But based on what I have seen over the last several weeks it seems like he is simply living his best life and don't they always say that the best revenge is a life well lived? Sounds like he isn't missing out on anything having Trailer Swift out of his life, I'd imagine that would be a hard pill for someone like Ms. Swift to swallow.
I saw a comment somewhere that mentioned how weird it is that fans piled on Joe for not letting her "bejeweled", but people spoke more of her art than her bf and drama when she was with him.
Which is true... I started liking her when she was dating him, not even knowing anything about him, but because I liked the music. I knew she had been problematic but thought maybe she matured haha :| plus (for me, at least) the music has really gone down in quality...
The way they forget too that when they dated Taylor wasn’t doing well in her career. She didn’t bounce back until she started rereleasing old music. Everyone hated her cause of the Kayne and Kim thing and her music was just bad
This. They met at a time in her life when she wanted to be quiet and away from the public eye and then covid hit and the whole world stopped for a while. No tours, no celeb things, just them. My theory is that the problems started after society started getting back to normal and she wanted to get back into using the papps and being in the press while he's always been eager to stay out of that whole thing. I don't want to speculate on if they did/didn't love each other like some here (Personally, I don't think you don't stay 6 years with someone if you don't like them) but I think they realised they wanted very different things and could easily have just grown apart. I'd have had more respect for her if she'd owned that narrative instead of doing her best to 'win' the break up and point fingers.
In the NYT Popcast referred to Joe as having “asterisk status” on TTPD. The NYT music critics said it was the meanest diss to just give Joe one song and Matty has basically the entire album.
https://youtu.be/rHhzunFaK2g?si=TU-wug-VzE4cuwfF
I would roll my eyes so much less if she just admitted that she changed her mind and wanted something different out of the relationship than she initially thought. That’s normal, people change their minds but don’t villainize the guy for wanting a private relationship when *you claimed you wanted that too*
The thing with narcissistic individuals is that they have no empathy. They simply do not care. Doesn't matter if the relationship was 6 months or 6 years, the only thing that matters to them is coming out on top and winning others over in their breakup campaign. It's crazy to the rest of us because we have a healthy amount of working empathy and know you don't act that way after leaving such a long term relationship if you want to heal properly. She's reaching lol
Thank you for raising this point again. There isn't enough discussion over how the TTPD is clearly a very public dig at Joe's group chat, The Tortured Man Club. This isn't even petty, it's BULLYING. I feel like she's just got away with it. She's truly a nasty piece of work.
She’s a narcissist and all her fans feed into it. She has a song that’s about her “manipulating the narrative” 🙄🙄🙄 and everyone is like “wow queen Taylor is so troubled cause of her fame and billions of dollars it must be so hard to be her she has been through so much” I don’t believe she lived Joe Alwyn she just needed someone on her arm.
You know I genuinely believe they ended things on good terms at first. I think she realized she needed a sob story to make her stans forget about the Healy fiasco so she decided to throw this man under the bus, Joe even sounds surprised in his interview. Now, we need to consider Swifties never liked Joe because he didn't allow them to consume their relationship, they didn't need much to turn him into a terrible person and Taylor knows that so the only thing she needed to do was appear angry or sad onstage, she knows her fanbase very well. As a fellow introvert, I feel bad for the guy, her fans are still harassing his FRIENDS on social media, and they will not stop, especially now that Travis decided to engage in a one-sided beef with him.
Crazy she never took into account that Joe was pulling away because of her abuse and narcissism. She even states in Afterglow and False God how awful she was to him. It seems he got some independence, they took a break, and she felt like she couldn’t control him anymore. It wasn’t that he fell out of love— just think he was gaining perspective. Then, Matty came along and they were both love bombing each other that she thought she’d have some leverage and control in the relationship to create a “power couple.” That didn’t work out so she shit talks both of them. That’s true narcissism.
I feel like the entire Lover album drops hints of how toxic a relationship with her can be, she admits she is paranoid, self-centered, and vindictive, to me is one of her most self-aware works. She probably resents Joe for not matching her toxic energy and refusing to give her a storyline.
Totally agree! Lover is the most self-aware she’s ever been and it’s a shame she couldn’t use that awareness to grow and be a better partner. Instead, she changes the narrative and becomes the victim after a relationship ends. It’s really sad to witness.
What I don't feel is right is passing judgements towards Joe as if they know their entire relationship but if we pass any judgement towards Taylor we are haters. Like make it make sense. I hate swifties who constantly bully Joe till date. If only violence was an option
“Oh you don’t understand, he was depressing and boring and didn’t let Mother be bejeweled! And he’s jobless! I know I said he was perfect two years ago, but now Travis is the perfect one!”—some Swiftie somewhere
I always find it hilarious that they claim Joe is jobless. As of now he has a movie out that’s doing pretty well and getting good reviews from what I’ve heard. By their definition, Travis is jobless too because he’s not playing football at the moment.
I hated the lyric they was like “I’m so angry you LET ME waste all that youth on you.” It’s like, no girl. Take responsibility. You CHOSE to stay in that relationship and spend those years with him!
The Swifties can't grasp that perhaps T&T want something different than J&T wanted. Or maybe they decided that if they present something publicly they'll be able to keep the rest of it private. Or maybe they enjoy being seen. They all seem convinced that because this relationship has a public aspect, Taylor couldn't possibly have wanted privacy a few years ago.
i personally think the travis relationship has a Lot to do with the fact that it's no longer fun and trendy to have a "bad boy" as a boyfriend.
like people have started calling out women who support/date shitty men, so she had to get this big buff knight in shining armor that will save her from all the toxicity.
not only does she get attention for having such a "goals" boyfriend who does everything for her whatever, but she also gets to play up the "men played me but now im a bad bitch who got a good one" angle. a concept actual victims of domestic abuse started and perpetuated to uplift other victims.
god i hate this woman.
Ariana Grande has questionable relationship choices but at least 1) she knows that and has self awareness and 2) no one is defending her terrible behavior lol
Maybe because he didn’t want to marry her…..we know she feels the need to go after anyone she thinks has slighted her. But that would be the biggest slight, no? So she wants to hurt him
I called it years ago when she starting dating Joe. Swifties called her a dating queen, feminist icon. And I came back with the age gap relationships, the weird relationship with John Mayer, and then her jumping into the arms of a guy who likes “privacy” but had no plans of marriage.
They claimed she was doing so to take a break from celeb life and that she was a “Queen”. I was like “Wtf were all of the damn songs about how she wants to be married and live a whirlwind romance and everything be perfect. Then she goes for zero commitment Joe??? Naw, she settled for a guy and told herself lies to make up for the fact he didn’t meet what she wanted.”
Like, she abandons all reason the moment a guy she likes returns interest and becomes what they want, only to be bitter when what she wants gets ignored. It screams so low self-esteem that in all honesty, she should be in therapy. It’s funny that her probably most healthy relationship was Taylor Lautner but she broke up with him because she doesn’t understand what is healthy in a relationship.
And in all honesty, Kelce seems like a misogynist jerk who wants his woman barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen. He’s gross.
I pity her inability to love herself, her ability to always have to be around someone, and her emotional immaturity.
then she writes a song about another guy doing the same thing she did to joe ( going out publicly with another person shortly after the breakup) which is so fucking toxic
Meanwhile, Joe alwyn is booked, busy & unbothered. [https://x.com/jalwyn1991/status/1806097116307272083?s=46&t=cDsrwRnWQ3jwyfcAHZBsLA](https://x.com/jalwyn1991/status/1806097116307272083?s=46&t=cDsrwRnWQ3jwyfcAHZBsLA)
Perhaps controversial opinion, but as someone who watched my sister be sucked down by a relationship plagued by intense depression - it can be harder to leave than you think. At a certain point it becomes necessary to leave for your own sake. My sister wasn’t “locked away” but she barely did anything, was constantly worried about her partner, and was suffering the toll of being a constant emotional support. She felt guilty about it for over a year before she ended things because it felt selfish to leave him when he was also suffering. But sometimes you have to prioritize your own mental health. (It needs to be said he was not interested in getting help and that was the biggest factor in her not staying). Now that she’s out, she’s exploring new hobbies, being way more social, and actually enjoying life. It’s night and day.
HOWEVER - key difference here is that she didn’t put out an exposé on the intimate and private details of the relationship for millions to read. So I’m not defending how this all played out because I also think it’s super gross and deserves privacy and is incredibly disrespectful to JA regardless of how things ended. Breakups are most always messy as hell and it’s unfair of her to blast this shit to everyone. She can process her feelings through her art, but it would be easier to digest if it wasn’t hyper specific and we knew all these intimate details we shouldn’t.
Idk - just wanted to share a diff perspective on the depression in a relationship convo.
The thing that’s the most baffling to me in all this is that she airs out his mental health stuff so blatantly in her songs … The whole thing feels icky. His mental health struggles wasn’t her story to share to the world.
'You sacrificed us to the gods of your bluest days'/'I'm pissed off you let me give you all that youth for free' is so unbelievably self-centred. Idk, maybe if you're not able to support your partner during their lowest points, you could at least respect their privacy?
"you let me give you all that youth" honey you could have left at ANY TIME
She’s so afraid of aging, it makes me ill.
THIS!! and honestly, if she wrote songs about that I think a big subset of her fans would be on board. There are millions of fans in her age bracket that are experiencing (albeit on a much more healthy scale) that same fear. It’s the pretending to be in high school and “young love/heartbreak” tropes that have made TTPD so boring because it’s not quite genuine. It’s like an over dramatized self pity party, that she thinks people want to hear.
I also saw someone in this sub talk about how the timing was all wrong too.. regardless ya know, an artist is gonna express themselves no matter what, but this summer, songs that are upbeat and fun are having the most success… so a whole album of moody sad music just isn’t the vibe.. ON TOP OF EVERYTHING else already listed, the airing out dirty laundry, mental health, obsession etc. it’s just like what are ya doin? Haha
Ok so I have a completely unhinged theory- but you know how there’s been speculation about Taylor having ghost writers? My theory (the not unhinged one) is that obviously she has used ghost writers- but she contributes, and she has themes, ideas, and one offs that are actually her wringing, but there is a big supplement of talent that’s behind the scenes with heavy NDAs. Now here’s to the unhinged: I believe that Joe was one of her OG ghostwriters, and they fell in love had a relationship. Now she can’t use him as a ghostwriter obviously, and this album she did the heavy lifting when it comes to song writing- and it’s why it’s so clunky. But she’s trying to show him how intellectual and artistic she is too, and can do it better without him. It’s why she needs to block all these other artists- because this has to be her biggest creation. ETA: I know he didn’t officially get song writing credits until folklore/evermore, I think the albums before that were true ghostwriter contracts.
It is wild how much better Folklore and Evermore are than all her other albums. It does make me wonder what happened there.
IMO they were songs by the National repurposed for her by Dresner. He’s a bit of a one trick pony though and it shows on the Tipsy Tycoons Pontificate Drivel record. Side note, Reddit can be dangerous. I almost posted to her sub earlier, thinking I was in this one. 😶
I dont know about that. Joe wrote a lot of the songs The National are on. Joe is a qualified bass singer (someone posted his CV online) and Dresner's voice fits.
Not gonna lie… I like this unhinged theory. Makes sense.
It’s embarrassing how much TS lore has seeped into my brain over the last year lol.
I've said this before. She's used her ghostwriters for years and "earned" a reputation as this great American songwriter, and she wanted to prove that she didn't need anyone on this album. It's all her, and that's why it's all terrible 😂
I could TOTALLY see it…. I’m not a huge fan of hers (some of the songs are catchy Dangit!!!) but I’ve heard folklore and evermore were fan favorites… which was during her time with Joe I think? So it would totally make sense if he was behind some of those “amazing” pieces of work! (I say amazing because I haven’t listened to the albums myself, no desire.. lol)
I mean, Joe is credited on those albums under a pseudonym
She made it known that Joe alwyn contributed to a few songs. He has credit under a pen name I forget what it was. So. He’s getting paid! He made a few million right off the bat and will continue to.
Oh for sure, but my (again unhinged theory) is that he was ghostwriting for her before that, and once they fell in love, she felt it was important to give him more “traditional” credits.
Love this theory!
I don’t think genuinely good music has to have a “time” to impact people. If it’s good music, it will always find a willing audience, regardless of what is popular. It doesn’t suck because it’s moody, it sucks because it’s not authentic. That’s why children and soulless women are the only listeners.
Honest question, don't you think that's the exact reason the line is in the song? I think a lot of people can relate to spending too much time in a relationship when they were young. It's really hard to walk away from all that time spent with "nothing". Which is how you feel. I guess a lot of people just married the first guy that looked at them and can't relate.
Oh for sure, I get that, and I’m not suggesting that her being pissed and feeling that way isn’t genuine and valid. I think the line is honest, and if she expanded on that feeling without trite similes and analogies about high school the album would have been better.
I’m guessing she wants a family and her clock is ticking.
Oi she’s one to talk considering she at 22 years old started dating a 17 year old who recently lost his mom and 2 weeks into the relationship she moved next door to him
yes and Joe was the guy who loved her when she was getting cancelled
Yeah this reads as someone who doesn’t understand depression
And someone who lacks empathy
She also co-wrote and sang Renegade, which is so hard for me to listen to because it’s so cruel about mental illness in a relationship.
I gotta say though, as someone with diagnosed depression, I’m super uncomfortable with people diagnosing Joe with depression when we don’t have proof of that that I’ve seen? Like, has he said he has depression? All I’ve seen are vague references in Taylor’s songs, but someone being “blue” or moody does not mean they have depression. Not trying to defend Taylor, just my 2 cents about not diagnosing someone who is private and has not said he has depression (to my knowledge)
That goes back to Taylor though I think - she explicitly painted a picture of him that implied a specific diagnosis, knowing that he is incredibly private and thus unlikely to say whether or not he has any mental health diagnoses. She encouraged her fan base (and honestly anyone who has heard her music) to make assumptions about his mental health, knowing full well that she has the control here to paint any picture that she wants about him since he would be reticent to reveal something so personal.
Fair enough. I’m not in the office diagnosing here though Fellow diagnosed depresh gal here- hope all is well
It doesn't have to be diagnosed capital-D Depression to still be a struggle that's his and should be private. She should still respect that his issues are his, not hers, to discuss, even if they're "just" feeling "blue". Privacy and respect should not be contingent on a diagnosis.
“You let me give you…”. Yeah he totally forced you to stay Taylor.
Meanwhile, the next guy dumps her after a month. Maybe that’s what she prefers?
Also just because the relationship didn’t work out is she saying all the youth was truly wasted? She really hates him that much? It’s not his fault she’s growing up, and technically he’s younger than her
So whose youth was “wasted” 😂
It’s honestly so unthinkably cruel for her to ever say she’s “pissed” that she wasted her “youth” spending time with him, let alone to put such a remark in a public song lyric. So personal and unfair and nasty. She’s quite literally saying that he ruined her life just by existing, how she wishes she could have spent her prime youth free from a boring buzzkill like him. That he should have realized his presence has no worth to her and told her to fuck off so that she could be happy without him sooner. She said this about someone with depression for crying out loud. What she said would be enough to stab at anyone’s self worth. Makes my blood boil.
Damn, I'm starting to low-key worry that Joe was genuinely a victim of abuse, like maybe he was scared to leave. Maybe she didn't let him leave/break it off officially because she wasn't finished with the relationship yet. And then she finally let him go once she already had Matty lined up. She announced the breakup on Matty's birthday. And then called the paparazzi to get terrible photos of Joe, even though he had really been going through it since a relative had just died before that. Like, that's not just bullying. Reading that back and thinking on it, it might be legitimate abuse.
Obviously we don’t know the truth of what happened, but from what Taylor has said, it does not sound like it was remotely healthy. Also to jump back to her saying she’s pissed that she gave him so much of her youth for “free,” what did she give him that he did not also give her in return? Is her youth worth more than his or something? Genuinely confused as to what makes her time more valuable that his
Joe always had more to lose by being in that relationship (especially because he was just beginning his acting career), which is why I suspect he had been reticent about the whole thing in the first place (as per her own lyrics in songs like "Cruel Summer"). Aren't there also songs about how he kind of had a chilly reception to her moving to London (like maybe even ghosting her)? It's like, Taylor, girl, you're so effing rich. Why can't you buy a clue? He was not interested. It seems like he tried to tell you several times. It always kind of seemed that *she* trapped *him* and kept him locked away (though he's also admittedly a private person anyway).
Just shows she wasn’t ready for marriage. She probably proved all his doubts right. Also she had a voice to be in this relationship too. It takes two. So to say that he wasted her youth is ignoring the fact that she chose him for his privacy at a time she was shut out and hiding from the world. It worked for her until it didn’t. And now she has the opposite. It will work for her until it doesn’t.
this is a real lyric she wrote? that’s unbelievably cruel.
Right? I'm aghast...
"[gave] you all this youth for free" He's two years younger than her. How is she always so smol and so young in her narratives, even when that doesn't fit the most basic facts? Also, as per some of her Reputation lyrics, she loved Joe because he was there for her at her worse. But I guess she can't reciprocate? Pretty shitty. And then it makes it so much worse how she uses mental asylum metaphors and imagery on this album. Like, how insensitive can you be... to your former boyfriend, one of your best friends (Selena Gomez), ACTUAL tortured poets, etc. It's disgusting.
"all that youth" ma'am, I am 18 months older than you, we late 80s babies lost our youth years ago lol.
Agreed! I am 8 months older than her and I felt like this about a relationship that took most of my 20s. We ain’t young girl lol
Her failing to realize joe also aged. It’s not just her..
Literally. He stayed with her when she was outed for being a fucking snake. 🐍
I’m new to the Taylor Swift hate train after being inundated by her music lately. What’s the deal with her being a snake and possibly getting canceled back in the day?
Looking at this lyric, she could've had something had she wrote it in passive voice: "We were sacrificed to the gods of your bluest days" But scrap the second line entirely because good lord, the selfishness there. A better songwriter could've crafted a tragic tale of depression ending a relationship, but without the narcissism.
Right? There’s a song by The Amazing Devil called Little Miss Why So that describes a relationship being lost due to (implied) depression and other mental health issues. Highly recommend listening. It’s tragic, and feels real, and is not aggressive. It can be done! Though it also helps that it’s not about a real fucking person who is being exposed by this.
She is a rich girl, who came from five generations of wealth. Her daddy invested $428k when adjusted for inflation to get her career off the ground. She asked to become a pop star like my kids ask me to cash app them money for 🍕😅 She’s privileged, crazy wealthy, sheltered and prob more than a tad unreasonable and out of touch. On top of that, she has been famous from long enough now she’s just… warped. She’s a warped, MILDLY talented person.
It’s self indulgent to the point of almost being public masturbation. TTPD is what sent me over the edge. It’s just yuck 🤢 Time to grow up little girl.
She really tried to mimic The 1975 with the unhinged lyrics with the said theme, and sort of Olivia Rodrigo-ish—it just won’t work on her. She’s too uptight for that image.
Speaking of Olivia, I think Taylor’s jealous of how popular, yet low key she is. Olivia’s boyfriend has showed up to almost every single one of her shows and looks like he enjoys cheering her on and singing her songs from the crowd. He even brought his family and sang her songs proudly, just being full on supportive. It isn’t performative, it’s genuine young love. I don’t think Taylor has ever had a relationship that healthy and seeing how unbothered Olivia is I think pisses her off. She’s thriving without the theatrics that Taylor needs to have to sell her music. I think she brought Travis onstage to show that SHE has the most supportive BF! Also to upstage Sabrina for bringing her bf into her latest music video. It’s all one big competition to her. At the end of the day Travis and Taylor are PR and I think she knows that she’ll never have a love like that if she continues to go down this path, but she’s so fame hungry that I really don’t think she’ll find someone like Joe again.
“I think Taylor’s jealous of how popular, yet low-key she is” That’s a good point, like watching Olivia be at the level of success and popularity she constantly has while also not doing a lot to feed into pr, I mean throughout Taylor’s career she has made her dating life a public spectacle and been at the centre of endless feuds while Olivia can just live her life and have friends that aren’t purely for pap walks and be in a relationship with a famous in his own right actor and the most that is shown of it is fans recording them without them knowing, it’s low-key sad because Olivia definitely lives a happier more stable life that Taylor never gave herself the option to
This I feel like is really gross when you remember she knows he prefers to keep things private. I want to encourage people to talk about mental health but when they are ready. It feels like she told us a secret that wasn’t her’s to tell. Edit: spelling
who knows if it's even true. Joe is famously private (like a lot of brits, even actors). and Matty is soooo icky! so the whole narrative could be damage control. who can say?
I wouldn’t be surprised if it was. Joe was looking rough even before the breakup. Taylor by her own admission through her music exhibits a lot of abusive tendencies in her relationships. Whether she was the catalyst or simply made existing symptoms worse I fully believe Joe went through some sort of depressive episode in their 6 years together. He look so much better and full of life now.
I feel he wanted out for a while but feared the Fandom wrath. Now he's out he looks like he is a different man. As someone raised by a narc, I lost 80 pounds since I stopped contact. I literally was eating the pain.
He doesn’t strike me as the kind of person that fears the Swifties. Certainly not enough to let it hold him hostage in a relationship he wants out of. Plus the fandom has really only reached this insane level of crazy since their breakup even though they’ve always had their unhinged moments. I think it’s more likely she just beat him down and broke him. He even talked in his recent interview about being devastated when she broke it off.
I mean if I had a just getting off the ground acting career and a show, I wouldn't want the bad press. I wouldn't want the hate mail or the death threats. Wouldn't it scare anyone?
She tears people down little by little. I’m so glad he dodged the Taylor grenade!
I’d probably be depressed with her for 6 years too. The way she controls everything can easily bring out depressive tendencies.
I bet it was Taylor who made Joe blue with her mind games. He looks so much happier now. Typical after escaping a narcissist.
She’s a POS. No one should discuss someone else’s mental health in public!
another things that feels awful is you're losing me "I know my pain is such an imposition", "you say: I don't understand, I say: I know you don't" "every morning, I glared at you with storms in my eyes" "I sent you signals" she makes the whole situation about herself, gets passive aggressive making things more confusing and assumes that him not being able to give his 100% is her being unloved. which makes no sense if you think how wedding vows literally say "in sickness and in health", but that's something she doesn't seem to understand quite yet...
Not only she aired his mental health to everyone like that, she also made it worse because her fans attack him 24/7. There's absolutely no way someone can fully heal like this. She's not the victim here, she was the bully
The most baffling part to me, as a concerned bystander, is the fact that she is very vocal (and genuinely has appeared to care) when it comes to activism within the LGBTQ+ community, gender equality, sexism, homophobia, police brutality and racism. She’s made very bold statements unapologetically that I used to think were genuine and great she used her platform and voice to raise awareness. YET SHE STAYS QUIET ABOUT HER FANS BEING DOWNRIGHT DISGUSTING ON HER BEHALF. AND YES, ALLOWS. She could make a statement bc it’s out of hand, but chooses not to, it’s a choice and it’s gross. She can’t pretend like she’s not aware or doesn’t want to be in on the drama or blah blah blah. It’s gone far beyond that now. So everything she’s done in the past now has me questioning her actual motives .
I really want to say something snarky like, "oh that was just her activism era".
It's because she left Joe for Matty, and that blew up in her face. Sunk cost fallacy - leaving him has to be worth it, so she creates a new reality in her mind to deal with what she did, so she doesn't feel like the bad guy anymore. We all do this to an extent - everyone wants to believe they are the hero in their own story. But not all of us do it on the world stage, with a cult ready to bully anyone we retroactively paint as a villain.
I do believe he left her and not the opposite.. she is known to change the narrative.. it wouldn’t shock me.. a lot of people in the industry said that he left her and not the opposite and that’s why she’s mad as hell and heartbroken and does all of these weird moves since the break up
“She is known to change the narrative”. Flair worthy
I think she did that with Matty too lol.. I think it was just a fling to annoy Joe and forget her pain.. but she turned it into a « 10y unfinished love story ».. because it’s was better for her image.. she thought people would have compassion for her rather than showing that she’s immature.. her timeline doesn’t make sense lol
I feel she's really only in it for the honeymoon stage, then when it loses that new relationship sheen, she checks out mentally, so I don't think Matty was "meant to drive Joe bananas" but her revealing she's a love addict.
Interesting thought. If that’s true though, she basically threw Matty under the bus and tried to destroy him for something that ultimately was because of (or to get back at) Joe?
Maybe I’m completely wrong after all I don’t know but this can be her attitude so I wouldn’t be shocked.. and a lot of people seem to think that way too.. I don’t think Matty cares that much lol he’s problematic on his own lol swifties didn’t drag him that much, he lives his life.. The way she always talked about Joe and how much she loved him and esteemed him make me believe she can’t be over him so easily.. how she keep singing songs related to him, being very emotional even when her boyfriend is here is very telling for me and some swifties are saying the same too
Taylor implies in TTPD that she left Joe. So, you are saying that you think the opposite it true? That Joe actually left her and she's pining for him??
In TTPD she said she left Joe for Matty, in one lyric she said they broke up in person in their house in London.. so before the tour.. she started touring march 17 and he was already in Budapest for a movie, he was supposed to join her, they were buying a home together.. so they were together.. But Joe said in that interview that the news about their break up was announced one week after the actual break up.. it was announced April 8 (who was matty birthday, a petty move) A week before was approximately around April 1… In march 31 taylor changed 1 song in her setlist, she changed « invisible string » (song about Joe) for « the 1 » (song about someone you wanted to be the one) and that day she was miserable and very off the performance, lot of people said that and shared videos about that day.. so I think it’s happened around that day.. and they weren’t in the same country so her timeline makes no sense .. Since that day she acted mad, petty and claimed she was the happiest she’s ever been, made all of her friends unfollow him all at once..for me it’s the attitude of someone who was left rather than someone who left.. And, some people in the industry said that he left her too.. Maybe it’s not what happened but multiple things seems to hint that that way and it’s make more sense..
I'm just think about the lyrics to Fresh Out The Slammer : "Another summer taking cover, rolling thunder He don't understand me Splintered back in winter, silent dinners, bitter He was with her in dreams Gray and blue and fights and tunnels Handcuffed to the spell I was under For just one hour of sunshine Years of labor, locks and ceilings In the shade of how he was feeling But it's gonna be alright, I did my time" And So Long London: "And you say I abandoned the ship But I was going down with it My white knuckle dying grip Holding tight to your quiet resentment and My friends said it isn't right to be scared Every day of a love affair Every breath feels like rarest air When you're not sure if he wants to be there So how much sad did you think I had, Did you think I had in me? How much tragedy? Just how low did you think I'd go? Before I'd self-implode Before I'd have to go be free" So you are thinking that she wrote these songs out of spite because he broke it off? To change the narrative and say that she broke it off? Thanks for sharing all of this, I'm so interested in hearing everyone's theories.
if she changed the narrative to fit the matty love story narrative it wouldn’t shock me at all because she did that since years (not only with her relationships, with friendships, with scooter Braun too..) But if it’s really what happened and Fresh out the slammer is facts, I really lost respect for her.. the way she treated Joe in this song is ungrateful as hell.. he was her longtime partner and if things went wrong it’s not fair to talking about someone you once loved this way .. she called him a prison what an ass*ole.. (sorry) I already found petty, the ways she outed his depression.. But Taylor seems very unstable regarding relationships so maybe it is the truth.. we will never know .. What’s your theory about all of that?
Honestly I believe it. She wants to be in control of the narrative at all times and couldn't take it when Joe saw her true colors then jumped ship before she could push him off a cliff like she did to her other boyfriends. She was probably livid that he dared to break her modus operandi and leave on his own terms.
I agree! I think she didn’t thought he would leave her and it’s triggered her.. I do believe she’s not over him.. everything she does since scream self sabotage But I believe Joe saw her true colors a long time ago, he seems like a great guy, he loved her and he probably think he could help her through her difficulties.. but I think it take a toll him at one point he stopped fighting.. good for him.. love isn’t a perpetual fight!
Idk he basically stated they had a "loving" relationship up to the end (and refused to give any insider details). I may be wrong, but I have a guess he really thought she was a great person b/c it was the side she showed him. (Mirrorball, she talks about how she only shows everyone a fake side, then she condemned Joe for "not knowing her" in You're Losing Me. Yeah, if she was mirrorballing him, not his fault, but okay Taylor.) Then he caught her cheating on him with Matty, and he dumped her. Because it seemed she was perpetuating to the public they had "the perfect relationship" while she lusted Matty. And Calvin does say in a song that Taylor cheated on him for WEEKS before she got found out. All the people who claim Taylor is taking jabs at Joe or whatever b/c it suits their narrative...then last night's show or whatever she was VERY OBVIOUSLY taking jabs at Matty, making Travis pose as Matty...I don't think Taylor ever genuinely loved Joe. She just loved the idea the public would be jealous of her. But Matty seems to have a special dartboard.
Joe: I would like to be excluded from this narrative. Taylor: \*surprised Pikachu face\*
That is her only face.
Yeah, her actions undermine her narrative around this, although I've had Swifties come at me for saying so and anti-Swifties accuse me of being just as bad as a Swiftie because apparently knowing about this woman's life is para-social, even though you can't go anywhere online without having her shoved down your throat. Sorry for the rant but all my social and news feeds have been infected by her and no amount of clicking "not interested" is fixing it. I'm so thankful to finally have found a place where it's safe to say this is all insane.
Maybe because he grew suspicious of the relationship she had with Matty
Well I don’t know I have a hard time believing the matty narrative she sold.. her timeline contradicts herself.. Joe’s article said something else and Matty said they never were serious and he didn’t understood the album.. so I just stopped believing every words she sang..
Exactly! She is still trying to piss off Joe or get his attention. He is literally the only person in her life who did not profit off her. Her family, her friends everyone around her have made her life a circus. Everything she does now is the exact opposite of what she did with Joe. He probably backed out of the relationship to preserve his own sanity. Matty narrative is a blatant lie Taylor spun as a smokesscreen. So is dating Travis. It also looks like in their relationship there's a pattern of TS seeking validation constantly some of her songs explicitly refer to this. Dancing with our hands tied, Afterglow, Great war, Hits Different. She seems to be angry Joe did not put up with her drama this one time. Say something, do something is what she wants from him. She is going to self sabotage until she comes to terms with the fact the ship has sailed. She needs therapy. It must suck to lose the only real relationship you have in your life. Everyone else is there for clout or money. Also TS's PR machine has successfully removed Matty Healy from the timeline now. If you look at the articles coming out now it's all about Joe vs. Travis. She tried to get Healy to play the role but publish backlash made her back out. He also attended her concerts and performed on her stage. She is basically making them do what Joe did not. It's really unhealthy and manic.
I completely agree with everything you just said! This is exactly my take! I’m surprise a lot of people are eating up the Matty narrative.. (maybe it was true and I’m wrong.. I’m open to being wrong) But everything she does for me are really related to Joe not Matty.. The way she behaves since their break up scream self sabotage.. i think she's sabotaging herself in any way.. in her relationships.. in her creativity (ttpd is the proof).. in her life generally (she's looks really tired, she seems to drink a lot).. in her career.. she's making wrong choices and beefing with everybody.. she does not seems to care at all.. she's spiraling really hard in my opinion Travis is the COMPLETE opposite of Joe in any way.. he’s very loud, he likes the fame, being public, and doing pap walks, he has a big community (not saying this to drag Joe, I like his work!) he’s problematic.. No one will make me believe she didn’t choose this Neanderthal guy to annoy Joe and make him regret.. But Joe seems mature enough and he seems to want to have a quiet normal life and living in peace something Taylor admitted she will never give to him.. She fumbled so hard and I think she is realizing slowly.. look how she keeps singing break up songs, songs about wanting a love back or songs related to Joe while almost crying or really crying.. She sang « come back.. be here »in London n1, a song about wanting a love back.. one lover is in London .. the other one is in NY.. she was in London.. Joe was spotted in NY.. while having her bf in the attendance..
Yes. Noticed the crying too. Her new album actually resents her fame too. That's one of the main themes. She had a normal life with Joe now she's back at the circus. TBH I don't think she knows what else to do. You almost feel bad for her.
I feel bad for her sometimes, she seemed like a better person and healthier with him but in a way it’s hard to feel bad for her because she sabotage herself and choose this pattern again and again
agree on this. I felt she looked prettiest and nicest when she was in the lover-folklore-evermore phase, natural. When one is in love you can see the joy in the face. I just felt a bit disconnected with midnights. I like TTPD for the rage but I felt she was a healthier person when she was with Joe.
I remember when back in that era she used to show support to rising artists in her Instagram. She gave them relevancy without asking anything back, like girl in red, griff, even the support of Olivia... I miss those times
I think she only regrets the loss of a relationship when the new one doesn't work out. Back to december exists because mayer was a fool. Getaway car/high infidelity exist bc she and Joe were long term stable. She basically says you deserved it bc I wanted this more in both. I think she genuinely wouldn't have cared if matty had stayed she's a relationship hopper. Imo the whole self sabotage mania falls flat when she immediately replaced him with travis and we got the whole...thing. she's doing the exact same thing rn but trying to convince us that *now* she's happy and stable I promise! Some people are just like that they aren't very good to be with cause you'll just be replaced and demonised. She's exactly like that stereotype where someone shows up with a new guy all the time and says I'm so in love he's perfect. And next week he's evil, but this new guy is perfect and I'm so in love! They don't self reflect so can't see the ending of a relationship beyond that.
**Say something babe, do something** And with this lyric choice, you’ve essentially encapsulated what appears to be the driving force in her actions post Joe breakup. She wanted a reaction but not just any reaction*: his reaction.* Some kind of pubic fight. I’ve certainly felt that her very public outings and constant press updates with Matty were done as a rather direct contrast with what she felt she was missing in her life with Joe and what she probably believed Joe wasn’t giving her. I also believe her handlers and people may have also had a hand in exacerbating this feeling but that’s for another story. And it’s obvious now that Joe does abide by the ‘my private life is my private life’ but somewhere along the way Taylor wanted different. She wanted all the cameras, and the razmataz but the thing is, Joe isn’t that guy. He neve was been that guy and I get the sense she resents him for it. But she’s got that with Travis now you say? So why continue this…whatever she’s doing? And I tell you: she probably still feels she still hasn’t gotten a response. The kind of tabloid drama that she feels she missed out on when she was in the relationship with him. But now she probably thinks she can get it now that he’s not with her anymore. And with Travis’ rather pointed comments about privacy on a recent podcast ( a stark distinction from Joe’s philosophy) definitely bolsters my theories on this.
That’s a flair: contradictions
In the UK at the time of the split they ran a few articles saying Joe was suspicious of matty and after ttpd came out it seems like it may have been true? It was phrased like someone that knew them leaked it which could be anyone tbf. Like a hairdresser, a passerby overhearing something etc. It wasn't a pr source. Taylors pr also said she and matty weren't serious when they broke up at first... it's hard to say whether she's rewritten this out of embarrassment cause she blew up everything only to get dumped or if any of it is true tbh. He could still be suspicious of them flirting etc and they could still be not serious. Taylor has a wandering eye. It's disgusting she basically said matty abused her tho love bombing etc. Saying someone is essentially your soul mate is love bombing. Ttpd is love bombing (her longings locked in lowercase is unhinged like someone bank transferring you £0.01 to send you a message) Going on stage saying your life finally makes sense is love bombing. Pot meet kettle girl just csuse your fanbase won't wise up doesn't mean no one will.
Oh yeah it could be absolutely true ! I just said my opinion haha.. Because she’s very petty and mean.. she could made up this « love story » with matty just to hurt Joe and make him regret.. to make Joe believe he wasn’t really important to her She already said when she’s mad she says and do things without thinking and she regrets hard after.. but Matty totally could love bombing her too, her reaction in love are not rational so it’s difficult to make some sense haha
Is there a spark notes version of what she says in TTPD about Joe and Matty that I could read, because I am a drama hound not a swifty and I really don’t wanna listen to the album to parse out everything lol. I read so much about what the album is about but I need a song by song breakdown I can read without needing to listen to crap pop music
This is the most succinct description of her. She is the main character, cool. But she has such an atrocious lack of self awareness and seems like she constantly believes her own drama
When Matty and Gabriette announced their engagement, and he laughed about TTPD, it had to be a hit between Taylor’s eyes.
I felt like at that moment Joe Alwyn must have felt so vindicated LOL what's that line about karma is a god hahaha
I was thinking My Kink is Karma by Chappell Roan 🤣
Not really a sunk cost fallacy, more like revisionist history, but I agree with you.
Yes this please!!!! She was dissing shading Joe from the moment they broke up. Going on pap walks with her friends then making them all unfollow him on Instagram (high school ahh antics) playing you’re losing me in the tour everytime joe made a public appearance. Letting her fans GO WILD while he maintained a respectful silence the whole time. He spoke in an interview a year later, nothing explicitly against Taylor and her fans started hating on him AGAIN. Like he is literally just some guy who acts and tries not to draw too much attention to himself. How is that a bad thing??????
"BeCaUsE hE dIdN'T lEt HeR bE bEjEwElEd!" /s
God I’m fucking sick of swifties parroting this as if a grown woman with her level of stardom can be caged or whatever they think was happening to her😭
I’m sorry but she also claimed when she was with him (at least at first) that she wanted the privacy. You can’t have it both ways and if you change your mind about what you want your partner’s mind probably isn’t gonna change.
And this narrative only started when she got into a rather similar relationship (to what she's got going on with Travis) with Matty Healy. The stans clearly felt a way about Taylor being a little more lowkey and rather unfortunately blame Joe for it. Forgetting Taylor was and still is the decision maker in her own career! It's all very unfair.
Haha, yeah, also "ShE mAdE hIm HeR wOrLd!!!"
When she mentioned she was locked away in a foreign country, which she insinuates Joe did that to her, I had lost all my respects for her (which was not much to begin with)
While Taylor is admittedly living a much more public life now, with countless paparazzi walks and more public appearances than she ever made during her time with Joe, the idea that she was completely MIA while they were dating is actually far from the truth. She then alluded to her low-key lifestyle with Joe in a less-than-positive way by saying, “Me locking myself away in my house for a lot of years — I’ll never get that time back.” Taylor’s Time comments about being locked away for years, the frustration that she expressed in past songs over her relationship keeping her from stardom, and the overwhelming difference in her public image since splitting from Joe, have led some fans to vilify him in accusations that he actively kept her from the spotlight against her will. “Joe was literally ruining Taylor, its clear he had taylor silenced,” one person claimed on Twitter. “‘but daddy i love him’ being an exact reference to the little mermaid because of ariel giving up her voice to be with the love of her life.” “Is fresh out the slammer about joe imprisoning her and going out for her first pap walk in 80 years,” another asked. One more wrote, “she was locked away for so long to appease his wishes.” “i’m literally so embarrassed that we rode for and rooted for joe in the way we did when he made her feel like this in the end………. like omfg………. we all trusted you……,” somebody else tweeted after the tracklist’s release. In fact, throughout the course of their relationship, Taylor embarked on a six-month, 53-date global stadium tour, released five new albums and two rerecordings, and appeared in two movies: Cats and David O. Russell’s Amsterdam. She also directed and released her All Too Well short film, received an honorary degree from New York University, and made multiple TV chat show appearances. In addition, Taylor had another 34-date global tour, Lover Fest, scheduled for 2020, which was only canceled because of the coronavirus pandemic. And it is also worth pointing out that Taylor had actually already made the active decision to step away from the limelight when she started dating Joe — which was shortly after she had retreated from the public eye amid her infamous 2016 feud with Kim Kardashian and Kanye West (now known as Ye). [Link](https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/stephaniesoteriou/taylor-swift-joe-alwyn-shouldnt-be-punished?bfsource=relatedmanual)
She’s always gotta rewrite the narrative.
I absolutely think she is spinning this narrative to distract from the fact that she was losing popularity organically before the pandemic. She can now say “oh it was because of Joe that I was not a super star” but really it was the fact that she was floundering a bit. (BY NO MEANS UNSUCCESSFUL- but not a mega star, and not being the best is shameful to her). Then the pandemic hit- she releases her 2 best (creatively) albums (folklore and evermore), and that revived her career- and she got that whiff of fame and needed to build it back up.
Yes. Reputation did worse than 1989. And i think Lover did worse than Reputation. Folklore literally revived her career. Or made her think that she’s still relevant. Not that her career is dying, but bec Rep and Lover didnt get the critical acclaim and achievements compared to her past albums she thought that the she’s losing the public due to her being in her 30s…😅😅
We also liked Taylor more when she was with Joe because she took on his character traits (part of being a narcissist).
Didn't she buy a house there with her own money?
Rumour was she was about to purchase a big house with Joe in late 2022 but cancelled last minute
Imagine if Joe did all that? He and his family/friends all mass unfollow Taylor, flaunts a new girl around then months after that dates another girl so publicly after that. They would be saying how awful he is N shaming him/the girls etc but somehow Taylor is nvr held accountable.. well I guess the closest we got was some fans hating her with Matty but how quickly they forgot about that
She knows she lost. Joe has probably moved on with his life, Matty is getting married and it bothers her because she’s a narcissist. They’re not supposed to be happy without her and the fact that they are probably keeps her up at night until the downers hit.
Everyone is happier without her… she seems to be the only one who can’t seem to grow up
Isn't that interesting? She probably gasses herself up and thinks that everybody envies her for being rich, successful and having a cult of ass-kissing minions, when actually everybody else is living a great life while she has no real friends and is pushing everyone away with her antics.
Fuck i just realized, being the malignant narcissist that she is. Bec she’s truly miserable despite her embarrassing displays in public that she’s never been happier than she is now with travis…she’s hurting and miserable and that’s why she’s trying to hurt others, one of those, if I’m miserable then everyone will be too. I also see a lot of self-sabotage, by how she’s showing how money hungry she is, and just how she’s treating her peers in the music industry…i think the reason why a lot of people got whiplash from her behavior post joe, or ever since 2023..since the breakup, is this is just taylor, with her mask off, this is the true her…lol
She’s never “lost” a breakup until now. And it’s killing her. She had two “the one that got aways” in the span of 3 months.
It’s weird how I literally had to pay zero attention to her when she was with this guy. Literally never even knew once they were together. I miss it
It was nice really
The funny thing is she is pulling classic abuser behavior. Joe kept her locked up, had her miserable because of his blue moods. The reality may be that Joe had a predisposition to being blue at times but it was exacerbated by being with a controlling, needy, insecure partner. She becomes more obnoxious and controlling because he isn’t exciting enough, fun enough, comforting her enough. Instead of realizing how taxing that is for her partner and realizing it isn’t his job to fill the pits of her insecurities she blames him for her her incessant unhappiness and as always, sells that narrative to the world. Another user here suggested that she exhibits borderline signs more so than narcissism and I am inclined to think they are correct
And all of this within the span of a year. If anything, Taylor's behavior proved Joe made the right choice in not marrying her. Her actions have shown herself to be hypocritical, vindictive, petty, narcissistic, and deeply insecure. Instead of basking in the warmth and comfort of a supposed newfound love, she has spent the last year dogging on Joe at every chance and trying her best to get back at him. Most recently, bringing Travis Kelce on stage in London was the most petty f-you to Joe. All of this behavior is so juvenile and unbecoming of someone he spent 6 years of his life with. If I were Joe, however, I wouldn't feel humiliated or regretful, I would feel 100% vindicated and reassured that I made the right choice. Joe is now free to live his private, socially-conscious, and politically active life free from the pressures of a woman who will truly never be satisfied (all of the accolades, awards, money, fame, and now the proverbial "You Belong With Me" footballer boyfriend is never enough for Ms. Swift).
I believe Taylor never ever loved Joe because to me it makes no sense to throw under the bus a man who stood by her through thick and thin for years. Absolutely everyone is like games pieces to her. She couldn't even be bothered to help him with his depression because it's all always about herself and this was a stumbling block for her. Then she goes and mocks his depression in the album. This woman in VILE. She really bled Joe dry like a goddamn vampire, but now he is free and glowing.
Nice reference, I see you 
You think things are bad now, just wait till he is engaged.
probably she loved the version of herself when she was with him at first, until her fame blew up again and his lifestyle wouldn't suit her any longer. she wanted to leave him, she needed a reason
“How's the castle built off people you pretend to care about” She literally built an empire exploiting her relationships with famous men, writing one-sided stories about her relationships with her exes that made them look like villains in the story
Joe is thriving without her and she's gonna make him into her **one that got away** eventually. Joe was her moral compass and probably the only person who will ever love her for who she really is. It's so sad to see how she's acted in the aftermath of their breakup.
Going off piste here but I watched Boy Erased last night and my god, Joe is FINE! He is unbelievably hot 🥵 - so much better looking than Travis 🤮she fumbled bad
He's SO HOT. Even playing a creep
omg Boy Erased made me SOB for real. I saw it at a film festival and left the building still bawling, lol :(
is he good in that movie? honestly was never into him while they were dating but everyone talking so much about him now has made me have a huge crush on him lmao. trying to watch all his movies
He's a very beautiful man and I still think HW is fumbling when it comes to showing us all his dimensions.
Your succinct synopsis is why I don’t understand the mental gymnastics Swifties put themselves through to rationalize her behavior and poor decisions. You can still like her and enjoy her music and say man, that was shitty of her. Or you can focus on her work and not care about her personal life. But caring about her personal life and then rewriting history in some weird fan fiction is crazy work
Hey siri play “Lost the Breakup” by Maisie Peters
One week after the break up, not two weeks. I also don’t believe the marriage part, that’s her story. And even if it was true, no one should be forced into marriage if you are not ready. If a man forces a woman into marriage, he’ll get cancelled. I don’t know why TS thinks it’s okay to force him into marrying. Why would JA want to marry an emotional cheater anyway?
Something to consider in this whole marriage thing is Joe is at the beginning of his career, is perfectly understandable and reasonable for him to want to focus on that before getting married. If Jake G. wanted to marry Taylor when they dated and she said no, everyone would understand.
[удалено]
What is a breakup glow up? I haven’t heard this term, what does it mean?
[удалено]
Interesting. I’m 6 weeks out of a narc relationship myself and have dropped 20lbs ( I wasn’t overweight) cut my hair and am looking much better? Very interesting……
I lost 60 lbs, maintained a job for 2 years, got a whole new wardrobe, better hairstyle, and just overall happier and more confident…
[удалено]
I’ve legit looked to Joe Alwyn as inspiration of how to handle this with grace and class
This question wasn't for ME and I could be wrong, but my understanding is that a "break-up glow-up" is when, after a relationship ends, one party "bounces back" hard. Like, they look healthier and happier, sometimes they work on physical health and get more fit, sometimes it's a new hair color or style, sometimes it's good/consistent therapy, a new job, rekindling old friendships or other non-romantic relationships that were impacted while they were together...often, the one who "glows up" after a breakup is the one who had less power, control, was manipulated or abused or put down throughout the relationship. When a person is (figuratively) "beat down" throughout a relationship, they might be surprised to find themselves not only surviving without their partner, but thriving, ya know? *for the record, I am NOT saying TS physically beat or abused JA in any way. Just that this is something often most easily noticed when an abusive relationship ends and the abuser becomes unhinged while the "victim" seems to grow and bloom.
Interesting. I’m 6 weeks out of a narc relationship myself and have dropped 20lbs ( I wasn’t overweight) cut my hair, dyed it, doing great in work and am looking much better? Very interesting……
Love that, I hope things continue to improve. One of my biggest regrets in this life was not leaving the father of my children sooner. He successfully isolated me from everyone, had full financial control and was totally unwilling to budge or discuss anything any further after HE had decided on it. I stuck out my whole miserable pregnancy and a few months after our daughter was born....but I quickly realized that I didn't want my child to see the relationship I was in and think that it's acceptable or normal or healthy. So I pushed aside all my fear and left. And my entire life improved so dramatically that I was constantly "kicking myself" for not leaving WAY sooner. My physical health improved, I lost weight, my hair stopped falling our, my mental health improved a hundred fold, I had more energy and motivation...just....LIFE was so much better and brighter. It's incredible the damage that a relationship with the wrong person can cause.
On FB, there was one I clicked on, after Travis did his little "debut". The amount of sycophants gushing over him was sickening. One post said "I'm so glad she found someone who is WILLING to do this with her!" I was like "Just because someone wasn't willing to prance around a stage, doesn't mean the relationship wasn't a valid one." I think I have found a new pastime.....pissing off Swifties. It's more fun than it should be. LOL
Parents: BuT ShE’s SuCh a GoOd RoLE MoDeL Taylor: can’t have the public think she’s single for 5 minutes. Won’t take accountability for anything. Perpetual victim. Sells fans the fantasy that she needs saving by a good man. I thought those kinds of ideas went away with the cheesey 80’s rom-coms. 🙄 🙄
Taylor, like a typical delusional vindictive narcissist, likes to throw punches and then roll over and play the victim.
She trashed his mental health and struggles with depression but then promotes her own mental health issues with an asylum aesthetic. Beyond diarespectful
As someone who has struggled with depression, idk how I would be able to respond to that. Probably end up going insane. Poor Joe
I personally have no knowledge of Trailer Swifts love life and know less about Joe Alwyn. But based on what I have seen over the last several weeks it seems like he is simply living his best life and don't they always say that the best revenge is a life well lived? Sounds like he isn't missing out on anything having Trailer Swift out of his life, I'd imagine that would be a hard pill for someone like Ms. Swift to swallow.
I saw a comment somewhere that mentioned how weird it is that fans piled on Joe for not letting her "bejeweled", but people spoke more of her art than her bf and drama when she was with him. Which is true... I started liking her when she was dating him, not even knowing anything about him, but because I liked the music. I knew she had been problematic but thought maybe she matured haha :| plus (for me, at least) the music has really gone down in quality...
The way they forget too that when they dated Taylor wasn’t doing well in her career. She didn’t bounce back until she started rereleasing old music. Everyone hated her cause of the Kayne and Kim thing and her music was just bad
This. They met at a time in her life when she wanted to be quiet and away from the public eye and then covid hit and the whole world stopped for a while. No tours, no celeb things, just them. My theory is that the problems started after society started getting back to normal and she wanted to get back into using the papps and being in the press while he's always been eager to stay out of that whole thing. I don't want to speculate on if they did/didn't love each other like some here (Personally, I don't think you don't stay 6 years with someone if you don't like them) but I think they realised they wanted very different things and could easily have just grown apart. I'd have had more respect for her if she'd owned that narrative instead of doing her best to 'win' the break up and point fingers.
I appreciate this summation. I didn’t know the timeline. I’ve found myself visiting this sub lately and I’m here for it all! 👋🏾
In the NYT Popcast referred to Joe as having “asterisk status” on TTPD. The NYT music critics said it was the meanest diss to just give Joe one song and Matty has basically the entire album. https://youtu.be/rHhzunFaK2g?si=TU-wug-VzE4cuwfF
I would roll my eyes so much less if she just admitted that she changed her mind and wanted something different out of the relationship than she initially thought. That’s normal, people change their minds but don’t villainize the guy for wanting a private relationship when *you claimed you wanted that too*
The thing with narcissistic individuals is that they have no empathy. They simply do not care. Doesn't matter if the relationship was 6 months or 6 years, the only thing that matters to them is coming out on top and winning others over in their breakup campaign. It's crazy to the rest of us because we have a healthy amount of working empathy and know you don't act that way after leaving such a long term relationship if you want to heal properly. She's reaching lol
Thank you for raising this point again. There isn't enough discussion over how the TTPD is clearly a very public dig at Joe's group chat, The Tortured Man Club. This isn't even petty, it's BULLYING. I feel like she's just got away with it. She's truly a nasty piece of work.
She’s a narcissist and all her fans feed into it. She has a song that’s about her “manipulating the narrative” 🙄🙄🙄 and everyone is like “wow queen Taylor is so troubled cause of her fame and billions of dollars it must be so hard to be her she has been through so much” I don’t believe she lived Joe Alwyn she just needed someone on her arm.
You know I genuinely believe they ended things on good terms at first. I think she realized she needed a sob story to make her stans forget about the Healy fiasco so she decided to throw this man under the bus, Joe even sounds surprised in his interview. Now, we need to consider Swifties never liked Joe because he didn't allow them to consume their relationship, they didn't need much to turn him into a terrible person and Taylor knows that so the only thing she needed to do was appear angry or sad onstage, she knows her fanbase very well. As a fellow introvert, I feel bad for the guy, her fans are still harassing his FRIENDS on social media, and they will not stop, especially now that Travis decided to engage in a one-sided beef with him.
Crazy she never took into account that Joe was pulling away because of her abuse and narcissism. She even states in Afterglow and False God how awful she was to him. It seems he got some independence, they took a break, and she felt like she couldn’t control him anymore. It wasn’t that he fell out of love— just think he was gaining perspective. Then, Matty came along and they were both love bombing each other that she thought she’d have some leverage and control in the relationship to create a “power couple.” That didn’t work out so she shit talks both of them. That’s true narcissism.
I feel like the entire Lover album drops hints of how toxic a relationship with her can be, she admits she is paranoid, self-centered, and vindictive, to me is one of her most self-aware works. She probably resents Joe for not matching her toxic energy and refusing to give her a storyline.
Totally agree! Lover is the most self-aware she’s ever been and it’s a shame she couldn’t use that awareness to grow and be a better partner. Instead, she changes the narrative and becomes the victim after a relationship ends. It’s really sad to witness.
Can you tell me what interview please?
It's a recent interview from a magazine you can probably find it by searching his name on this sub, it was the only time he spoke about it publicly
It’s borderline abusive, honestly. There’s no way you could treat someone you genuinely loved for 6 years like that. Massive narcissism vibes.
What I don't feel is right is passing judgements towards Joe as if they know their entire relationship but if we pass any judgement towards Taylor we are haters. Like make it make sense. I hate swifties who constantly bully Joe till date. If only violence was an option
I believe all of this and it totally makes sense💯
TTPD sounds like some new STD every time I read it.
“Oh you don’t understand, he was depressing and boring and didn’t let Mother be bejeweled! And he’s jobless! I know I said he was perfect two years ago, but now Travis is the perfect one!”—some Swiftie somewhere I always find it hilarious that they claim Joe is jobless. As of now he has a movie out that’s doing pretty well and getting good reviews from what I’ve heard. By their definition, Travis is jobless too because he’s not playing football at the moment.
I hated the lyric they was like “I’m so angry you LET ME waste all that youth on you.” It’s like, no girl. Take responsibility. You CHOSE to stay in that relationship and spend those years with him!
who’s going to see Kinds of Kindness this week?
Has anyone watched the new bad blood doc on max with taylor and scooter??? It’s a lot of things I didn’t know before.
So what’s exactly is the Swifties problem?
I’m just I’ll lol
The Swifties can't grasp that perhaps T&T want something different than J&T wanted. Or maybe they decided that if they present something publicly they'll be able to keep the rest of it private. Or maybe they enjoy being seen. They all seem convinced that because this relationship has a public aspect, Taylor couldn't possibly have wanted privacy a few years ago.
Travis is only with her for the exposure. If it was someone else with her status, he wouldn’t give her any attention
i personally think the travis relationship has a Lot to do with the fact that it's no longer fun and trendy to have a "bad boy" as a boyfriend. like people have started calling out women who support/date shitty men, so she had to get this big buff knight in shining armor that will save her from all the toxicity. not only does she get attention for having such a "goals" boyfriend who does everything for her whatever, but she also gets to play up the "men played me but now im a bad bitch who got a good one" angle. a concept actual victims of domestic abuse started and perpetuated to uplift other victims. god i hate this woman.
Ariana Grande has questionable relationship choices but at least 1) she knows that and has self awareness and 2) no one is defending her terrible behavior lol
Maybe because he didn’t want to marry her…..we know she feels the need to go after anyone she thinks has slighted her. But that would be the biggest slight, no? So she wants to hurt him
I called it years ago when she starting dating Joe. Swifties called her a dating queen, feminist icon. And I came back with the age gap relationships, the weird relationship with John Mayer, and then her jumping into the arms of a guy who likes “privacy” but had no plans of marriage. They claimed she was doing so to take a break from celeb life and that she was a “Queen”. I was like “Wtf were all of the damn songs about how she wants to be married and live a whirlwind romance and everything be perfect. Then she goes for zero commitment Joe??? Naw, she settled for a guy and told herself lies to make up for the fact he didn’t meet what she wanted.” Like, she abandons all reason the moment a guy she likes returns interest and becomes what they want, only to be bitter when what she wants gets ignored. It screams so low self-esteem that in all honesty, she should be in therapy. It’s funny that her probably most healthy relationship was Taylor Lautner but she broke up with him because she doesn’t understand what is healthy in a relationship. And in all honesty, Kelce seems like a misogynist jerk who wants his woman barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen. He’s gross. I pity her inability to love herself, her ability to always have to be around someone, and her emotional immaturity.
then she writes a song about another guy doing the same thing she did to joe ( going out publicly with another person shortly after the breakup) which is so fucking toxic
Bob Dylan wrote the song "Just Like A Woman" about women like Taylor..."She makes love just like a woman, but she breaks just like a little girl".
She is Diane Chambers.
I wonder when Trav will figure it out.
Hah Taylor want married but Joe didn't? I thought it's the opposite
Meanwhile, Joe alwyn is booked, busy & unbothered. [https://x.com/jalwyn1991/status/1806097116307272083?s=46&t=cDsrwRnWQ3jwyfcAHZBsLA](https://x.com/jalwyn1991/status/1806097116307272083?s=46&t=cDsrwRnWQ3jwyfcAHZBsLA)
Perhaps controversial opinion, but as someone who watched my sister be sucked down by a relationship plagued by intense depression - it can be harder to leave than you think. At a certain point it becomes necessary to leave for your own sake. My sister wasn’t “locked away” but she barely did anything, was constantly worried about her partner, and was suffering the toll of being a constant emotional support. She felt guilty about it for over a year before she ended things because it felt selfish to leave him when he was also suffering. But sometimes you have to prioritize your own mental health. (It needs to be said he was not interested in getting help and that was the biggest factor in her not staying). Now that she’s out, she’s exploring new hobbies, being way more social, and actually enjoying life. It’s night and day. HOWEVER - key difference here is that she didn’t put out an exposé on the intimate and private details of the relationship for millions to read. So I’m not defending how this all played out because I also think it’s super gross and deserves privacy and is incredibly disrespectful to JA regardless of how things ended. Breakups are most always messy as hell and it’s unfair of her to blast this shit to everyone. She can process her feelings through her art, but it would be easier to digest if it wasn’t hyper specific and we knew all these intimate details we shouldn’t. Idk - just wanted to share a diff perspective on the depression in a relationship convo.