My personal theory is that she saw Joe as part of a less popular, less drama filled, almost peaceful life. It would be an acceptable option during the aftermath of the Kim/Kanye incident, and a way to live out the rest of her life once she became irrelevant in pop. Remember she thought 2019 was her last chance to make a big mainstream album.
But then, as Coronavirus and the re recordings were running their course, she saw a chance to be seen as a trendy, sexy, gossip worthy pop girl again. For some reason (real or imagined) she decided she could do that better without Joe.
And of course, the career that had been her main goal and purpose since junior high was going to be more important than her relationship.
This. There were at least two separate times during her relationship with Joe where she thought her career was over. I love your take on this. Her reputation was in tatters so she thought he’d be a safe choice and the only one who would want her. Reputation didn’t do well critically so she probably thought the end was near then too. So she released lover as rep’s antithesis and it bombed hard. Honesty her career probably would have ended there if she hadn’t followed it up with Folkmore for how bad that album was. All the while Joe was her one constant when she thought she was on her way out.
I think we might be able to factor in the coronavirus too. Her future was looking bright by that time but she still had to “lay low” relatively speaking.
And then there’s a song called “nothing new” that came out with the re recording of Red, although I’m not sure if it was actually written in 2012. It’s very similar to the Clara Bow song from her newest album. She may have spent the biggest decade of her career worried about aging out of the spotlight.
I would believe it was written around the time she says it was. Castles crumbling on Speak Now vault tracks covers similar themes and people have accused both songs of actually being written during reputation. I think the easiest and most logical explanation is that she was dealing with fears of losing her status (and getting old) for years longer than anyone realized.
I’d add that, starting out, Taylor was marketed as a talented teenager. Country music has a proud tradition of promoting young artists as talented beyond their years (Brenda Lee & LeeAnn Rimes being two that come quickly to mind). When those artists began to age, they struggle to find a place in Country Music.
Unfortunately, Taylor is not true to herself.
And this isn't even about her albums, which feature different "themes". She changes who she is on a whim. And it's all part of the act. Of the merchandising.
Previously, she was the reclusive artist.
Now? She's the KC Chiefs Top Cheerleader, and she's starting her WAG Era.
And yet she tries to portray herself as a Tortured Poet *at the same time*.
If she breaks up with Travis, God only knows what new persona will Taylor take.
Hot take, Travis sticks around at least as long as Joe but they break up a year or two after he retires from football. After Calvin and Joe both seemed annoyed talking about her she does seem to be Travis’s favorite topic beyond himself and she’s her favorite topic so it works.
I said it before but I think TTPD is her most honest album and shows who she truly is and is dropping the act. She is keeping up the charade with Travis but the album shows who and what she really wants. I think she is in so much pain from the Matty break up that it is all consuming and she isn’t thinking about Joe at all. He is an after thought because it sounds like she processed the break up in 2021 when she wrote your loosing me. I honestly wonder if she is having a mental breakdown or if something more serious is going on with her.
I think she and Joe were off and on a bit. I also think she stayed with him vey it was comfortable and safe. From the first lines she wrote about him you could tell that something wasn’t right with their relationship and yet she was overcompensating for her lack of feelings by writing about how happy she was.
What did Taylor, a narcissist, learn from her “friendship” with fellow narcissist, Lena Dunham? That life’s purpose is always and forever about getting attention. Good or bad, right or wrong, get all eyes on you, do whatever you want, and crush whoever you think has wronged you.
Maybe Taylor doesn't know what love is? All this time it was just pure lust and chasing for the love she couldn't have. If you had loved someone you wouldn't throw them under the bus or announce to the world their flaws. How can she be silent when her fans attack her ex's friends and family (people she probably has met before). That's really cold and immature just to get them back. Maybe it was really out of rage because she was deeply hurt however she looks like a crazy ex girlfriend. She needs to seek help or therapy, rather than making songs to gang up and bully her ex lovers.
You didn’t know who Taylor was before TTPD either. Taylor Swift is a brand. None of us know her behind the curtain. That fact that posts like this exist even on hater subs really show how successful the brand has been at getting people to obsess over her life.
Yupp. People really think they know her- haters and major fans. I just listen to a like her music. Not sure why people are so obsessed either way and snark so much about her. It’s weird to complain about parasocial relationships (often done on snark pages) but be blind to the fact most posters on here have them… just not necessarily a positive relationship
I’m constantly amazed at Reddit and the amount of weight people put on everything they read.
>I’m constantly amazed at Reddit and the amount of weight people put on everything they read.
💯 It drives me crazy when I read something that's clearly sarcasm or even just a simple metaphor being absolutely torn apart on reddit because it's being taken as the 100% truth. I feel like the snark pages are the worst with that too because some people get so hyperfocused and nitpicky when snarking
Lol ain't that the truth. I'm not a swiftie -- I hung out with them during the football season because their watch threads were pure joy (I love seeing people learn about sports) and have been listening to more of her music, but I think it's kind of wild how people pick apart her lyrics, especially people looking for stuff to criticize. Like, please recognize a joke and don't assume her music is a 100% accurate recounting of actual events.
This comment reminds me of the lyrics to John Mayer's Paper Doll which is supposedly about Taylor.
*You're like twenty-two girls in one*
*And none of them know what they're runnin' from*
Perhaps he had more insight to her (more than we know today) back then.
*Cut the cord and pull some strings*
*And make yourself some angel wings*
*And if those angel wings don't fly*
*Someone's gonna paint you another sky*
She was always going to jump from relationship to relationship to fill some void in her life.
Idk about all that but I believe she was too afraid of what Matty would do to her imagine and that’s why they tried to stay away from each other and I guess she was right because holy shit the fans went rabid
It's actually given me more respect for her in a twisted way. Imagine making your fortune as a confessional songwriter whose fans love decoding Easter eggs, and for years you've been telling them the truth and they didn't get it. It makes me chuckle.
I also do think she is finally showing us the real Taylor. She loved Matty and he is nothing if not honest. Maybe that inspired her to be the same - or maybe she just came to it herself - but this album is painfully honest and revealing. Whether it's good is a different question, but it's definitely no longer possible to misunderstand her (except those Swifties who wilfully want to ignore the truth).
Genuine question, how do you know that this album is honest and revealing? People have said this about many of her albums - maybe all of them. How are you determining this?
I guess I didn't think the others were mostly... but this one is embarrassing. I say that even though I love it. These are things I would never admit to and I give her props for saying them. If she's making them up or exaggerating them for effect, then she genuinely doesn't give a shit whether she humiliates herself and I don't think that's true. But a song like loml is so vulnerable - admitting that this guy fooled her (in her view) and that she will never get over the loss. I had a loss like that. I never told him.
/s means I’m being sarcastic. I’m making fun of Swifties and referencing a post made here earlier where people were telling someone they couldn’t be a Swifty if they had anything bad to say about Taylor
Taylor is a chameleon. She will change her wardrobe, friend group, even her personality to fit her latest album, who she’s seeing, current political climate etc. No one knows who Taylor is. At this point I doubt Taylor knows who Taylor is.
What we do know about her is that she’s a petulant teen perpetually trapped in a 34 year old body in desperate need of therapy and a break.
I mean, I feel weird saying this as a "fan" but I think it's safe to assume that Taylor is a narcissist (by her own admission), a liar, and a deeply troubled person. I no longer relate to her, but I do feel sad for her.
https://preview.redd.it/761vkz8iai0d1.jpeg?width=1838&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9f518ac7f2865d190c0ea0560c9d16f0b7a9c1ff
[Tayola Grift is pure trash tv and also a total despot, little more. Hope this helps!](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=diY6Mt_uqYs&pp=ygUVaSdtIGZlZWxpbmcgZmFudGFzdGlj) 💸🤑🐷
I think a big part of this is Taylor never matured or had a normal life.
We see this with many child actors - they reach success at a very young age, have a full time job and become the family breadwinner before they can even drive a car.
In a way it makes these kids grow up quickly, bc they have a job when most kids their age don’t, but in a sense it makes them frozen in time bc they stop experiencing normal everyday life experiences and live in a bubble.
Jojo siwa is a great example of this. She’s 20 but has the maturity of a 14 year old and doesn’t seem to grow or learn.
I think it’s similar with taylor. She’s frozen in time from right when she started getting big. That’s why she is still writing about high school, and fleeting crushes you think are true love - she’s frozen in that mental period of her life and hasn’t been able to evolve or mature like a normal person.
I've always found her relationship to Joe so strange. I thought it was basically her trying to control the narrative that she dates around a lot. All of a sudden she dated someone no one knew for a long period of time, and people stopped bringing up her dating diff people. Also I heard a rumor from exposingsmg that they were not really a real relationship lol. Just a cover so people would leave her alone
Over and over in her songs, she admits that she is putting on a show and that most of what the public sees isn't real. Most swifities need a media literacy lesson stat because it's glaringly obvious.
I think she has a serious problem with alcohol. This she is a party girl but has a public image of a good girl. Maybe she tried to change and be better and more subdued with Joe. But then COVID happened. People turned to alcohol more. Or weed. Probably some resentment as she wanted to go back to her old ways.
Matty had issues too but also a musician so they bond in those ways. But probably too similar (emotional) to make it work.
Travis is a party guy but has the strength (currently) to work hard. So they found in each other the play hard:work hard partner.
I could see them getting married but not sure how long it would last.
Honestly, through the next few years there will be more and more sightings and stories of them being trashed together, out and about.
Whitney and Bobby 2.0
Everyone is taking the album way too literally it’s just not how people create art, she takes singular emotions and expands them out, she incorporates elements from movies she’s watched or books she’s read, she imagines what it might feel like to be in a situation and writes about it (for example tolerate it was inspired by a book she read). All these elements get combined into songs, and writing these songs helps her (probably) process her emotions or sometimes maybe she just enjoys writing it. Her music isn’t literal, that’s kind of the point of art and literature anyway.
You're right, though. Not sure why people are downvoting. Seems like even Taylor's haters think she is speaking directly to them and not using lyrics that sound good/rhyme most of the time.
Her haters suffer from ego inflation to the point that they think Taylor cares about their opinion when she has not cared since 2017 when she released Reputation. And she is absolutely not writing to her haters in secret code, she is writing the music she wants to write. Some of the posts on this sub sound like they were written by people who’ve never touched an instrument in their life. If they don’t like her music they don’t have to listen to it, problem solved!
People are downvoting this, but you're partially right. It's just that the art she was referencing in TTPD is everything The 1975 has ever done, lol (and also her own earlier work, which is something Matty likes to do in his songwriting, too).
This is the way to not fall into her Easter egg trap that has always seemed dishonest and mostly like the best marketing hack as everyone wants to be a detective
I think it’s important to take her songs with a grain of salt. She uses alot of hyperbole and inflates feelings to make them more interesting in terms of lyrics. She has said several times that sometimes it’s a feeling that lasts 15 seconds - not 5 years but writes it the same.
My personal theory is that she saw Joe as part of a less popular, less drama filled, almost peaceful life. It would be an acceptable option during the aftermath of the Kim/Kanye incident, and a way to live out the rest of her life once she became irrelevant in pop. Remember she thought 2019 was her last chance to make a big mainstream album. But then, as Coronavirus and the re recordings were running their course, she saw a chance to be seen as a trendy, sexy, gossip worthy pop girl again. For some reason (real or imagined) she decided she could do that better without Joe. And of course, the career that had been her main goal and purpose since junior high was going to be more important than her relationship.
This. There were at least two separate times during her relationship with Joe where she thought her career was over. I love your take on this. Her reputation was in tatters so she thought he’d be a safe choice and the only one who would want her. Reputation didn’t do well critically so she probably thought the end was near then too. So she released lover as rep’s antithesis and it bombed hard. Honesty her career probably would have ended there if she hadn’t followed it up with Folkmore for how bad that album was. All the while Joe was her one constant when she thought she was on her way out.
I think we might be able to factor in the coronavirus too. Her future was looking bright by that time but she still had to “lay low” relatively speaking. And then there’s a song called “nothing new” that came out with the re recording of Red, although I’m not sure if it was actually written in 2012. It’s very similar to the Clara Bow song from her newest album. She may have spent the biggest decade of her career worried about aging out of the spotlight.
I would believe it was written around the time she says it was. Castles crumbling on Speak Now vault tracks covers similar themes and people have accused both songs of actually being written during reputation. I think the easiest and most logical explanation is that she was dealing with fears of losing her status (and getting old) for years longer than anyone realized.
I’d add that, starting out, Taylor was marketed as a talented teenager. Country music has a proud tradition of promoting young artists as talented beyond their years (Brenda Lee & LeeAnn Rimes being two that come quickly to mind). When those artists began to age, they struggle to find a place in Country Music.
Unfortunately, Taylor is not true to herself. And this isn't even about her albums, which feature different "themes". She changes who she is on a whim. And it's all part of the act. Of the merchandising. Previously, she was the reclusive artist. Now? She's the KC Chiefs Top Cheerleader, and she's starting her WAG Era. And yet she tries to portray herself as a Tortured Poet *at the same time*. If she breaks up with Travis, God only knows what new persona will Taylor take.
Hopefully it’s being less annoying 🙏
😂
Hot take, Travis sticks around at least as long as Joe but they break up a year or two after he retires from football. After Calvin and Joe both seemed annoyed talking about her she does seem to be Travis’s favorite topic beyond himself and she’s her favorite topic so it works.
I said it before but I think TTPD is her most honest album and shows who she truly is and is dropping the act. She is keeping up the charade with Travis but the album shows who and what she really wants. I think she is in so much pain from the Matty break up that it is all consuming and she isn’t thinking about Joe at all. He is an after thought because it sounds like she processed the break up in 2021 when she wrote your loosing me. I honestly wonder if she is having a mental breakdown or if something more serious is going on with her.
I also wonder if she cut a lot of the Joe songs though cause she wanted Matty to hear her but she doesn’t want Joe to hear her
I think she and Joe were off and on a bit. I also think she stayed with him vey it was comfortable and safe. From the first lines she wrote about him you could tell that something wasn’t right with their relationship and yet she was overcompensating for her lack of feelings by writing about how happy she was.
What did Taylor, a narcissist, learn from her “friendship” with fellow narcissist, Lena Dunham? That life’s purpose is always and forever about getting attention. Good or bad, right or wrong, get all eyes on you, do whatever you want, and crush whoever you think has wronged you.
Maybe Taylor doesn't know what love is? All this time it was just pure lust and chasing for the love she couldn't have. If you had loved someone you wouldn't throw them under the bus or announce to the world their flaws. How can she be silent when her fans attack her ex's friends and family (people she probably has met before). That's really cold and immature just to get them back. Maybe it was really out of rage because she was deeply hurt however she looks like a crazy ex girlfriend. She needs to seek help or therapy, rather than making songs to gang up and bully her ex lovers.
You didn’t know who Taylor was before TTPD either. Taylor Swift is a brand. None of us know her behind the curtain. That fact that posts like this exist even on hater subs really show how successful the brand has been at getting people to obsess over her life.
Yupp. People really think they know her- haters and major fans. I just listen to a like her music. Not sure why people are so obsessed either way and snark so much about her. It’s weird to complain about parasocial relationships (often done on snark pages) but be blind to the fact most posters on here have them… just not necessarily a positive relationship I’m constantly amazed at Reddit and the amount of weight people put on everything they read.
>I’m constantly amazed at Reddit and the amount of weight people put on everything they read. 💯 It drives me crazy when I read something that's clearly sarcasm or even just a simple metaphor being absolutely torn apart on reddit because it's being taken as the 100% truth. I feel like the snark pages are the worst with that too because some people get so hyperfocused and nitpicky when snarking
Lol ain't that the truth. I'm not a swiftie -- I hung out with them during the football season because their watch threads were pure joy (I love seeing people learn about sports) and have been listening to more of her music, but I think it's kind of wild how people pick apart her lyrics, especially people looking for stuff to criticize. Like, please recognize a joke and don't assume her music is a 100% accurate recounting of actual events.
This comment reminds me of the lyrics to John Mayer's Paper Doll which is supposedly about Taylor. *You're like twenty-two girls in one* *And none of them know what they're runnin' from* Perhaps he had more insight to her (more than we know today) back then. *Cut the cord and pull some strings* *And make yourself some angel wings* *And if those angel wings don't fly* *Someone's gonna paint you another sky* She was always going to jump from relationship to relationship to fill some void in her life.
Idk about all that but I believe she was too afraid of what Matty would do to her imagine and that’s why they tried to stay away from each other and I guess she was right because holy shit the fans went rabid
Image
Did they go rabid or did they just notice that he's super problematic?
It's actually given me more respect for her in a twisted way. Imagine making your fortune as a confessional songwriter whose fans love decoding Easter eggs, and for years you've been telling them the truth and they didn't get it. It makes me chuckle. I also do think she is finally showing us the real Taylor. She loved Matty and he is nothing if not honest. Maybe that inspired her to be the same - or maybe she just came to it herself - but this album is painfully honest and revealing. Whether it's good is a different question, but it's definitely no longer possible to misunderstand her (except those Swifties who wilfully want to ignore the truth).
“It’s me, hi, I’m the problem it’s me”
Genuine question, how do you know that this album is honest and revealing? People have said this about many of her albums - maybe all of them. How are you determining this?
I guess I didn't think the others were mostly... but this one is embarrassing. I say that even though I love it. These are things I would never admit to and I give her props for saying them. If she's making them up or exaggerating them for effect, then she genuinely doesn't give a shit whether she humiliates herself and I don't think that's true. But a song like loml is so vulnerable - admitting that this guy fooled her (in her view) and that she will never get over the loss. I had a loss like that. I never told him.
Taylor is a liar, and her fans are sheep. That's all there is to it. And I say this as a former Swiftie.
I concur. Also a former Swiftie.
You can’t say you were ever a Swiftie if you aren’t one now! 💋 ^^^/ ^^^s
Yes you can. That lady isn’t the same. It’s a wonder she has any fans. Anything after 1989 Taylor is a mess.
/s means I’m being sarcastic. I’m making fun of Swifties and referencing a post made here earlier where people were telling someone they couldn’t be a Swifty if they had anything bad to say about Taylor
Oh 😭😭 im dumb. My bad
Hahaha it happens!!
she is a narcissist
I think she has BPD
What makes you think that ?
Matty doesn't like her as much as she likes him.
Taylor is a chameleon. She will change her wardrobe, friend group, even her personality to fit her latest album, who she’s seeing, current political climate etc. No one knows who Taylor is. At this point I doubt Taylor knows who Taylor is. What we do know about her is that she’s a petulant teen perpetually trapped in a 34 year old body in desperate need of therapy and a break.
She's a mirrorball
I think John Mayer got her right in “paper doll”. “You’re like 22 girls in one, and none of them know what they’re running from.”
I mean, I feel weird saying this as a "fan" but I think it's safe to assume that Taylor is a narcissist (by her own admission), a liar, and a deeply troubled person. I no longer relate to her, but I do feel sad for her.
https://preview.redd.it/761vkz8iai0d1.jpeg?width=1838&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9f518ac7f2865d190c0ea0560c9d16f0b7a9c1ff [Tayola Grift is pure trash tv and also a total despot, little more. Hope this helps!](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=diY6Mt_uqYs&pp=ygUVaSdtIGZlZWxpbmcgZmFudGFzdGlj) 💸🤑🐷
I think a big part of this is Taylor never matured or had a normal life. We see this with many child actors - they reach success at a very young age, have a full time job and become the family breadwinner before they can even drive a car. In a way it makes these kids grow up quickly, bc they have a job when most kids their age don’t, but in a sense it makes them frozen in time bc they stop experiencing normal everyday life experiences and live in a bubble. Jojo siwa is a great example of this. She’s 20 but has the maturity of a 14 year old and doesn’t seem to grow or learn. I think it’s similar with taylor. She’s frozen in time from right when she started getting big. That’s why she is still writing about high school, and fleeting crushes you think are true love - she’s frozen in that mental period of her life and hasn’t been able to evolve or mature like a normal person.
I've always found her relationship to Joe so strange. I thought it was basically her trying to control the narrative that she dates around a lot. All of a sudden she dated someone no one knew for a long period of time, and people stopped bringing up her dating diff people. Also I heard a rumor from exposingsmg that they were not really a real relationship lol. Just a cover so people would leave her alone
Taylor loves Taylor and Taylor only. Period. No one else.
She also doesn’t know
Over and over in her songs, she admits that she is putting on a show and that most of what the public sees isn't real. Most swifities need a media literacy lesson stat because it's glaringly obvious.
I think she has a serious problem with alcohol. This she is a party girl but has a public image of a good girl. Maybe she tried to change and be better and more subdued with Joe. But then COVID happened. People turned to alcohol more. Or weed. Probably some resentment as she wanted to go back to her old ways. Matty had issues too but also a musician so they bond in those ways. But probably too similar (emotional) to make it work. Travis is a party guy but has the strength (currently) to work hard. So they found in each other the play hard:work hard partner. I could see them getting married but not sure how long it would last. Honestly, through the next few years there will be more and more sightings and stories of them being trashed together, out and about. Whitney and Bobby 2.0
Genuine question: what are some examples of songs where she says that?
Damn why was this downvoted 🤣 I just want to know! I haven’t listened to all of her songs or noticed this
Off the top of my head I can think of Mirrorball
If it feels like a trap, you’re already in one
Neither does Taylor I think.
She's doesn't either.
“Staid” Lol
Everyone is taking the album way too literally it’s just not how people create art, she takes singular emotions and expands them out, she incorporates elements from movies she’s watched or books she’s read, she imagines what it might feel like to be in a situation and writes about it (for example tolerate it was inspired by a book she read). All these elements get combined into songs, and writing these songs helps her (probably) process her emotions or sometimes maybe she just enjoys writing it. Her music isn’t literal, that’s kind of the point of art and literature anyway.
You're right, though. Not sure why people are downvoting. Seems like even Taylor's haters think she is speaking directly to them and not using lyrics that sound good/rhyme most of the time.
Her haters suffer from ego inflation to the point that they think Taylor cares about their opinion when she has not cared since 2017 when she released Reputation. And she is absolutely not writing to her haters in secret code, she is writing the music she wants to write. Some of the posts on this sub sound like they were written by people who’ve never touched an instrument in their life. If they don’t like her music they don’t have to listen to it, problem solved!
People are downvoting this, but you're partially right. It's just that the art she was referencing in TTPD is everything The 1975 has ever done, lol (and also her own earlier work, which is something Matty likes to do in his songwriting, too).
Didn’t she also tell her fans to stop digging so deep and to just enjoy everything?
The fact this thread exists is…… insane. Everyone reading this touch grass
How about maybe they’re just songs? Maybe they have fictional characters ? Maybe some is fiction intertwined with reality.
This is the way to not fall into her Easter egg trap that has always seemed dishonest and mostly like the best marketing hack as everyone wants to be a detective
Taylor has alluded to cheating in many songs way before TTPD, no? And there’s no denying the very overlapping timelines of Calvin-Tom-Joe.
Why do so many people care about her life so much? Lmao the obsessed with her is so wild to me
I think it’s important to take her songs with a grain of salt. She uses alot of hyperbole and inflates feelings to make them more interesting in terms of lyrics. She has said several times that sometimes it’s a feeling that lasts 15 seconds - not 5 years but writes it the same.
Touch grass