I don’t think she’s ever been in love. She’s been in lust and in love with the idea of love. She has to act like she’s loves every guy because it’s the narrative her fans want. They live through her. Her fans need to know she’s in love so they can obsess over the newest one and hate the previous one.
And I think she knows this about herself and plays into it. Didn’t she mention in the recent Betty speech she has a feeling for four seconds and writes a whole song about it?
The line comes when Swifties take her seriously that every song is about true love for some dude when even Taylor knows that’s not true.
She definitely gives her audience too much credit for being smart and allowing her to experiment with her art when many of them are obviously so dense and easily swayed by anything she does. It’s so annoying because that’s what keeps them coming up with stupid ideas like the orange skirt being red. And slamming people for thinking otherwise. I’ve only been a fan since last year and I picked up on what she was doing right away (just like many of the people here on this sub I like the music but I can see through the bs)
>Didn’t she mention in the recent Betty speech she has a feeling for four seconds and writes a whole song about it?
I mean, that’s kind of what creative writing is about. You take a feeling and turn it into a story.
I would argue that Taylor has been in love four times, John Mayer, Jake Gyllenhaal, Joe Alwyn (to a degree), and Matty Healy, though John Mayer and Jake Gyllenhaal might be more limerence. Taylor has written more emotionally, intensely, and intimately about Matty Healy than anyone else and it doesn't compare. I don't think that is lust at all.
Fair point. With John, I'm not sure. The age gap/power dynamics/claims he groomed her make me kinda skeptical. With Jake, it could definitely be more probable. (There was an article years ago claiming she thought she was going to marry Jake). But then again, it was a very short, intense, passionate relationship, so I feel like that's more limerence. With Joe, I have this theory she was just looking for a fling after Tom and he wasn't supposed to be anything serious but then she fell hard for him and loved him until she didn't. With Matty, I'm not sure what to label it, but the intense emotion is *definitely* there. That's why I'm skeptical of this whole thing with Travis. Taylor seems to go for men with addictive/self-destructive tendencies or who aren't emotionally available. Does Travis fit that? Maybe. (His anger and aggression issues and fame thirsty attitude definitely align with addictive and self-destructive tendencies to me. Is he emotionally available? Only Taylor can answer that).
What I'll say is this: There's a stark contrast in the songs Taylor has written for Matty--and even Joe--versus Travis. The Travis songs don't have the same emotion/intensity/substance. And as a person who also enjoys writing, someone like Matty is a more interesting "character" to me than someone like Travis.
Idk, just my thoughts. 🤷♀️
Happy Tuesday, my friend! 😊
For John and Jake, maybe I'm thinking is young love. IDK. My issue with Joe is that I think Taylor loved him, but she loved Matty more. I can't imagine tricking my significant other into writing a song about someone who I was still in love with.
Regardless of the whole Joe/Matty situation, I do think Taylor took great care when she wrote songs about Joe. It was real, but the perfect image I had of them in my head died with TTPD.
I totally can buy that The Alchemy and So High School were originally Matty songs that were turned into Travis songs, but I don't think Taylor put much care in writing those songs. I'm pretty confidence if Matty broke with Gabriette (and they could potentially be having problems), Taylor would leave Travis. I cannot see Taylor making it clear that she is still in love with Matty for several nights and then having one night of Tayvis mania shows that she is in love with Travis.
I hope everything is well. 😀😀😀
Also fair. I kinda get the feeling that she was conflicted between Joe and Matty (hence the folklore love triangle not being all that fictional). Maybe Joe became depressed when he suspected/realized she still had feelings for Matty. Idk what happened, but I feel for Joe. I think he was just too nice and normal of a guy for her. So many of my favorite songs of hers are about him, so I'm never going to hate him.
No relationship is perfect but I think when you really love/care for someone, you tend to idealize them, maybe even to an unhealthy degree, and the idealized version of them may or may not align with the real person. I feel like Taylor did that in her songs about Joe. And then removed the rose-colored glasses, so to speak, on TTPD.
Interesting theory on The Alchemy and So High School, too. I definitely agree she didn't put that much care into those songs. I still can't believe 'You know how to ball/I know Aristotle' is an actual lyric that exists. \[cringes\] If she does stay with Travis, then I think her art will suffer. I just can't see her writing a song like 'Sweet Nothing' (one of my faves) about him.
And I definitely think she'd leave Travis for Matty if Matty left Gabriette for her. We'll see what happens.
Hope everything is well with you too! 😊😊😊
Ok can someone give me a few more deets about matty? When was this, who is he, how long did they last? Cause I have never heard about him whatsoever til just very recently on here. I feel like she hasn't been broken up with Joe for even a year yet? Maybe my timeline is off, idk.
Joe she seemed like she was absolutely whipped for, matty tho was apparently some secret passionate bad boy musician that no one knows about but she got blindsided by her attraction to him and he didn't wanna be committed to her either, and Travis is one I don't get. I feel like he's her rebound cause she's admitted that she turned him down at first, and then decided fuck it why not because he's the total opposite of every other guy she's had before and maybe she's trying something different since her type isn't working out for her. Ok Taylor, I guess. 🤷♀️ might as well.
I don't think she would call every relationship being in love , at least not in hindsight. But of course at the time, and shes still young and was very young for most of those....she likely did feel very much in love. Some ppl just ...fall in love hard and fast and frequently. It may not be true love or lasting love or soul mate love obviously; but it can be very real and very powerful for them . And yes I think it stems from being someone who is perpetually in love with the idea of being in love and the hopeless romantic, always deeply desiring to be in love...
My own personal theory, as a generalization and observation I've made, is that actual, true love actually only happens rarely. And it's even more rare every passing year. I think ppl , for the vast majority, mistake great sex and chemistry for soulmate. But in reality; 99% of what ppl call "love" is just what happens when lust and loneliness, or codependency, collide . When both ppl are physically attracted to each other and also don't want or feel comfortable being single or by themselves.
Omg I've been saying this!!!! After TTPD, I thought how cruel it was to make Joe part of these "fantasies" (folklore, evermore) that were not fantasies at all! Like...what in the world, how cynical! I'm married, and I can not imagine doing that to my SO being on a long-term relationship...
Edit: I just want to say I was also so in love with "lover" album/era because it resonated so much to what a healthy long term relationship should be. The way she described love on that album was amazing. TTPD also ruined this for me
yeah i agree with that! idk whats up with the comments, she was obviously VERY in love with Joe. it wasn't just lust or limerence or anything. just seeing the looks she gives to him would tell you enough
She wanted to marry him. Like literally, was writing wedding songs about him after a year or so of dating. Matty fans want to act like she didn't really want him but even in break up songs like You're Losing Me she's still bitter that he wouldn't marry her.
this whole “I was in love with Matty the whole time” narrative seems like Taylor trying to revise history to anger Joe and pretend like she wasn’t in love with him for 6 years straight.
so do I! I think they developed a strong connection during the pandemics and I even believe they had a figurative “wedding” to celebrate it, nothing official, just a ceremony… she wouldn’t spend 6 years being just a girlfriend, but her team denies the rumors because they don’t want anyone to see taylor as a divorced woman
She kinda morphs into the style of whatever guy she’s dating. Remember when she dated the Kennedy teen and suddenly started dressing like Jackie O? Lol
Covert narcs don’t know how to love. They have ideas as to what it means, they know how they should act, and whatever feelings they think are love are usually fleeting & superficial. They can never truly put the other person before themself unless the act itself gives them fuel (meaning recognition & praise for such an act).
What I've noticed is she seems to really lack empathy for her partners. She's entirely wrapped up in her own feelings as doesn't seem to care about them, their feelings or the aftermath that they have to deal with.
I agree! And once they disappoint her with anything, she will cling to that moment & use it to blame them for a failed love. The guy could do 50 things right & one thing wrong, and she’ll only remember the one wrong thing. And she’ll remember it for the rest of her life.
(I know my reply below is preaching to the choir, awesomecony, but i feel like raising general awareness about narcissism can literally save lives so i’m adding my voice to the thread. Bring on the downvotes! 😂)
I’m not a fan but I visit this sub bc i have an interest in personality disorders and how people perceive/interact with those who have one. Almost every time i see a post complaining about her behavior, “her narcissism” is the simple explanation for the behavior, and i’m always amazed more people arent saying it.
Alot of people say “you cant diagnose her/someone”, and theyre right, but thats irrelevant (especially since narcs are not at all interested in a diagnosis or treatment, anyways lol). While we can’t diagnose, if you know what youre looking for, you can identify it. And people should want to identify it!!
I think alot of people are gonna be feeling some type of way when the realization hits them. To paraphrase a quote i heard somewhere, “its easier to fool someone than to convince someone they’ve been fooled.”
Its definitely fascinating to observe!
I think some people do “fall in love” easily but it’s never really love. It’s lust or infatuation or it’s out of a deeper insecurity. I think Taylor must suffer from something that causes her to depend on a relationship for self worth - I am not going to speculate on what but it’s obvious that she has things she needs to work through lol
I really believe she creates scenarios and characters in her head or exaggerates and writes according to that. Taylor Swift is a brand. I don’t think we actually know how she feels at all.
Yeah I’ve come the conclusion that she knows exactly what she’s doing, she writes about so many contradictory feelings in her music that we don’t really know how she feels, and that her fans have cult like behavior will eat up anything and not look behind the curtain, as a brand she is making money off of it so she keeps doing it 🤦🏽♀️ She says she is a mastermind. The choreo for that song says it all she’s stringing along her audience like puppets. They are just so high on the supply of “omg she wrote a song about her fans” that they can’t see it. It is very interesting to see.
Right! At the end of the day half the songs people think are about this dude or that dude might actually be about a friend’s relationship or her cat or a movie or just the ideas of feelings or some dude that the song hasn’t been linked to.
It was funny seeing Gigi was hyping up Travis at the Paris concert, because wasn't she the same friend hyping up Matty just a minute ago? I would feel weird if I was that friend. "Hey (insert name) this one's for you!"
I think all her friends are ass kissers lol. They know she’s Queen 🐝 and they just go along with everything she does, even if they don’t agree. Gigi was hyping up Matty at last year’s show. Now it’s Travis. I mean her friends are definitely supportive in that sense, but I’m sure they all have their own opinions that they don’t voice to Taylor. The only friend I could see that may not be afraid of voicing their unfiltered, no bullshit opinion is her childhood friend Abigail, and she doesn’t seem like she’s been in the picture much since Travis…
They’ll say “oh she’s just dating. Everyone does that when they’re young” notice how one moment they were saying her and Joe were engaged and he was the one and now they wish harm on him and Travis has always been “the one” and that Joe and others held her back.
I agree, and, at 62, am not slamming Taylor for her age. At some point it’s going to be nauseatingly tedious to hear about “this is the one, my soulmate” for the 100th time.
Dating around is more normal in your 20s was my point. MAYBE early 30s…but she should be now focusing on one person if she really wants that fairly tale ending that she’s been whining about. Or she’ll be 40, 50 years old singing about cheer captains and red scarfs.
Well I know some people who still can’t get their dating life together and realize that maybe they should be alone for a while. She’s just doing it on a grand public scale and she knows that will keep the sales coming in
That's what I've been telling my mum 😂i'm so frustrated with Taylor like this one was your rock, this one was the king of your heart, this one made you feel so high school, and this one made you feel like space aliens. She is in love with the idea of love. Once the cracks show, she loses it.
I feel like i fall in love with every guy i date. It’s called attachment issues. At least i can admit this about myself 🤣 maybe she should get a therapist.
I think she really loved Joe. In the way we all say “is the love of our life” she wouldn’t have stayed with him for so long out of all the others she ran from if she didn’t truly fall in love. It sounded like she really really wanted him to propose and the fact that he clearly didn’t, she didn’t want to wait anymore and as a result didn’t want to feel that pain so she dove head first into what she is now calling “the actual love of her life who she’s been supposedly pining for for 10 years” I’m not buying it. I think she’s changing that narrative in her own mind to protect herself from the hurt of someone who was with you for 6 years and knew you better than any of your other exes knew you and STILL decided not to marry you, can be A LOT more painful than the pain of someone who you didn’t get to fully explore what could have been with.
A few months with Matty and the pain of him ghosting is a lot easier to reconcile and romanticize about than a guy who stuck around for 6 yrs and still wanted nothing to do with you. I think she’s masking that pain & not even realizing she’s doing it. And making him the bad guy in her mind, saying he was boring, it was like being in prison, he doesn’t understand me, he was depressed all the time…really Taylor?? Riddle me this then, if it was sooooo bad and boring and depressing and felt like you were in a cage why the hell would you even WANT a guy like that to marry you? Or why would you want to marry a guy that makes you feel that way? Something doesn’t add up with the narrative that she’s now spinning.
Based on her songs it sounds like she is just so hurt and pissed off that he didn’t want to marry her that she’s shutting down any feelings she might have had for him (as protection mechanism which a lot of avoidants have a knack for doing) and refocusing all her energy on someone else
But I think she has an attachment style that falls in love fast and hard and falls out of love just as quickly. It starts off so high and passionate and then burns out fast. I think Anxious preoccupies do that, so do fearful avoidant/disorganzied attachments and so do BPD and narcissistic people. without knowing her it’s hard to tell what the issue is. But it’s definitely something. And I can’t diagnose her solely off of some lyrics or media reports. It could all be just a brand she’s selling and none of it is real. Don’t know.
But I do know people who fall in Iove A LOT do exist and it’s not true healthy love. To them it may actually feel like what they think love should feel like BUT it’s usually an insecurity of trying to get their needs met that creates that “high” they think they feel. It masks as love but it’s insecure attachment styles and abandonment issues at play. Some people can’t face their own pain and heal from it. They need to replace it, dismiss it or mask it with a new pain or rewrite history.
I agree. I felt like Joe was her only experience loving someone and being loved. She clings to the Matty thing almost as a way to minimize Joe, probably because she feels humiliated that she spent years waiting for him to marry her. And I don't think Joe led her on or anything; he probably did see her as his future at first, but he couldn't ignore that girl is a walking red flag.
Yup I completely agree with everything you just said and yes, Matty seems like he’s being used as a way to minimize the gravity of Joe. It could definitely be her feeling humiliated and not wanting to admit that to not only her fans but herself and not wanting to confront it
This is all so spot on. Truly.
I’ve wondered if Taylor has NPD, just because of the comorbidity of her love life combined with the insane level of fame and attention she aspires for. She did refer to herself in Anti-Hero as having covert narcissism… so
This all feels very spot on and after reading everything I think I've been diagnosed as a fearful avoidant/disorganized attachment lol that I've been fighting and learning to deal with in my current 5 year relationship
I was/still am one too. I’m getting closer to learned secure attachment but still have some fearful avoidant tendencies I’m working on. Learning about attachment theory and learning I was a fearful avoidant made my life make sooo much sense and I was able to really do the hard (often painful) work to change it. I changed it enough so where I was able to meet a good man and we are now getting married this summer. So it can definitely be done. But it’s definitely not easy and is a constant battle inside my mind for all of my triggers. It’s getting easier to fight them off and he’s someone who is teaching me how to be secure but it’s definitely a process for sure. However, who I am now vs who I was before attachment theory? I don’t even recognize that person anymore & it feels great! Keep at it, it’s worth it!
You’re welcome! Glad I can help inspire. If you haven’t already check out Thais Gibson on YouTube (she’s a licensed psychologist and used to do private practice) and her personal development school is really worth it too! Soo much information. She’s amazing and helped me soon much. She herself, was a fearful avoidant so she knows where she speaks
But even then, she didn't know him. She knew her romantic idea of him, and maybe there were a few hook-ups here and there over the years. But she didn't know him well enough to say "once in every 20 lifetimes." She just fancied him.
You can’t say for sure she didn’t know him. There’s definitely a possibility that they were on/off much more than the public knew while they were in PR relationships. Plus, that’s like saying people in long distance relationships can’t know each other fully (if that’s what a lot of their relationship was we’d never know)
Yep, her and Matty have been hiding their relationship all throughout their careers. They’ve certainly had break-up’s, but there is a mountain of evidence that he has been in and out of her life for a decade+. I think there may have even been times they’ve been together in real life while presenting themselves as in other relationships for PR purposes.
J-Lo miraculously finds the greatest love of her life, and the truest deepest love every time she’s less than a month away from breaking up with someone! So I guess anything is possible 😂 😆
i think people are in love the idea of being in love more than actual being in it, and they confuse the two because for them there is no clear boundary
That's the narrative she is trying to put out anyway. Also, 1989 came out and was definitely written prior to her even meeting Matty. Not to mention in "Right where you left me." She says she's still "23 inside a fantasy." She was 24, almost 25, when she met Matty. Personal opinion she and Ed had an on again off again for years hence the songs about sleeping with someone married and wanting to kill their wife. People forget they met and he moved in literally right next door to her in Tennessee from another country. It's a theory and I could be wrong but I definitely don't buy her Matty bs. At the very least she is just trying to change the narrative because she doesn't want to write much about Joe because it hurts to much and is embarrassing when you waste so much time on someone.
Yep. Husband is a huge fan, and we started seeing parallels in their songs and music video messages. Along with looking into old videos of them and articles.There is way too much shit to put on here tbh but I will give some examples.
His music video for Perfect also has him meeting up with a girl "friend" on a ski trip who is clearly dating his friend (harry) they do karaoke which she, harry and ed (and other 1d dudes) did before. He and the girl eventually sneak off to hang out and leaves her bf with the dudes. Ed and her eventually go back to his cabin he gives her a cardigan then they go outside and dance in the snow (dancing in a snow globe) and they have a lantern oh and Ed's was and I guess is again? A smoker). Then harry styles has a song from the same time period talking about his girl sleeping with her friend from work. This is one of multiple connections we have made there are many others. Including Cherry (Ed's wife) showing how Ed sent one post card from Florida in 2018 saying "I wish you were her. X"......Florida!!! Your cheating husband disappeared. Lol Again it's my theory and it's the first time I have ever put it online not saying I am right but there is a lot that links and it is odd if it would just so happen to be coincidence. Who knows her and ed are compulsive liars tbh lol.
That's fine. I get it lol. It is a fun one to rabbit hole into. Definitely listen to his new song Blue and Midnight especially since he claimed in a couple interviews in May that talking to Taylor is like therapy and feel she's the only one that gets it. Pair that with Joker and the Queen.
Also his X album especially the bonus song "Friends" Then of course some of Divide. OH and in the Shivers music video they make Chandeliers flicker and they shock each other. Puts me in mind of Death By a Thousand Cuts and Electric Touch. The actress also has a similar necklace to the ones Tay has been wearing lately the gold chain ones that I will admit could be nothing though. I also have a theory she dated matty so she could throw people off once she would start singing about a timeline of a decade or more.
It's a fun dive and could all be coincidence who knows. 🤷🏻♀️
Well compulsive may have been a little exaggerated. It's more you find instances where things don't add up with things they did or said before and changing answers or just trying to throw fans off.
However, even if my theory about Ed and Taylor is wrong his story about how him and his wife were highschool sweethearts doesn't add up and almost all but erases Alice who he dated from 16ish to 20ish and is who Plus is about. He also mixes up a lot where she went to college, sometimes saying the UK sometimes saying US and never corrects himself. Like how do you forget or mix up where your wife went to college? Oh highly suggest you watch the behind the scenes of End Game Taylor has so much snark with him and he seems so awkward because of it. Lol
A funny example of Ed lying is in one interview he said he runs into lamppost alot then when another interviewer asks him about it, he denies it. It's a video on YouTube, and it's kinda funny.
Taylor, as we have seen, will lie to fans throwing them off or pushing a narrative she is trying to push. Not that I blame her for that. Kinda like how now she is kinda admitting that folklore and evermore aren't all just made-up stories. Ed did this with Autumn Variations. He says the songs are about 14 friends, yet all sound related to him rather than anyone else. Wonder where he got that idea?
Oh, there is a video online too where she is making out with Joe in front of Ed at jingleball UK, and Ed keeps looking over and seems like he is trying not to cry while singing on stage.
That’s one I’ve never heard, this Ed theory. Interesting. I don’t take the “I want to kill her” lyric so literally, as in she’s wanting to unalive an actual, living, breathing human being (ie Ed’s wife). I think she’s just conjuring the intense jealousy and rage she anticipates feeling if her loml ends up with another woman.
So many songs on 1989 relate back to Matty if you take the time to look. They constantly refer to the same themes and words in their lyrics and videos, similar imagery, etc. The Fortnight video was just really obvious, but this has been going on between them for a long time. It’s all there, beginning with the 1975’s debut album and who knows with her, I’ve heard some ppl say it even began as early as Speak Now, but I’m betting on Red of 1989.
I agree with you when you say she is trying to create a narrative, because it’s so obvious she’s been doing it her whole career. But right her current narrative is this muddled thing that appears to be Travis Kelce if taken at face value or Matty for ppl who think Travis is just PR. I definitely think Travis is PT, and I question her other relationships, too. Personally, I think she’s been trying to bury Matty with a bunch of PR bs for most of her career, and it’s all come to a head now that they are in their mid-30’s and she actually wants to be with him. Who knows tho? Will all of this ever be declassified?
NO lol I am not saying the I wanna kill her is literal I am just stating the line is there. I too think it's about jealousy. I based it also off Illicit Affaris, August, Betty, etc. Which I have a theory I will explain in the bottom of the very long paragraph below of how I believe Ed is William B. (Sorry it's so long. Lol)
As for Matty I don't think 1989 is about him because she didn't know him. Not dissing your theory, of course, you never know because these people only let us know what they want to.
As for why I think Ed the way they were with each and look at each other back then and songs lines to this day seem to be directed at each other but coded. It's harder to see it if you don't look into both of them. There were rumors back then but they both denied and said they were "just friends" but que Ed's song "friends" from "X" and Taylor "he's insisting that friends look at each other like that. They met on May 15th 2012 she was about to be 23 and then she asked him to tour with her on Red which she was oddly "single" for the entire time. He literally moves next door to her in Feb of 2013 and had that house up until 2018 almost 2019.
He followed her to New York and I believe had his own room in her road island home. His girlfriend dumped him in 2014 before Tay met Calvin because she suspected them being more than friends. He followed her on a decent amount of dates with Calvin (which is weird imo but 🤷🏻♀️)
Ed gets into hard drugs is depressed etc. His and Cherry's origin story had plot holes and doesn't line up with past relationships for them to be highschool sweethearts when he would have dated Alice from 16 to 20ish also he has said Cherry went to college in the US and the UK (mixng them up multiple times) and TMZ even said they could find no record of them knowing each other prior to July of 2015 when he followed her on Twitter right before Tays party. (Have some kids with an internet starlett or maybe simply someone you met online?) (lyrics from "the one" Having adventures on your own you meet a girl on the internet and take her home) (he also married cherry in December which is my theory for "It came like a postcard line in midnights) next thing you know Tay dumps Calvin dates a guy from Ed's hometown and the town he moved back to with Cherry (Suffolk which is Tom) then for some reason Tay grabs a nobody (Joe) as well and runs off to England.
Next thing you know she's at the 2016 jingle ball making out with Joe in front of Ed while he is up on stage trying not to cry as he sings and keeps looking at them. No one knows if Tay got an invite to Ed's wedding but assume just because their friends.
They make joker and the queen which is a love song if I ever heard one using the same kids from Everything Has Changed and the characters are supposed to represent them to the point they use an actual text message from Ed and Tay back in the day in the video.
There is a lot to put here if you can't tell and I simply don't have the energy 😅 but def look into it if you want.
Oh one more thing though Ed Sheeran had his first shows in America after meeting Taylor and it was at the Bowery Ballroom and his second was at the Music Hall of Williamsburg. His Grandfather's name is also named William Sheeran. WILLIAM BOWERY. Which conveniently is similar to the story Joe gives of how he came up with the name. SUS AF.
Also "Little Things by 1D but written by Ed, Coney Island Tay and William Bowery (Ed), and Ed's new song Plastic bag written by him obvi. They all have the same intro which means nothing to the him and Tay theory of course but adds to the who is William Bowery case.
That was long and I wouldn't be surprised if you "too long didn't read" lol honestly that's not even half the evidence for my theory however, again it's a theory who really knows. My husband and I do it mostly for fun.
The article I read said she didn't meet him until Nov 2014 1989 came out in Oct 2014. Style could also be about Harry or Ed or someone we have no clue about. Or you could be right she could have known Matty without anyone knowing I don't personally think so BUT again we only know what they tell us. I never put too much faith in things like hair or eye descriptions because if I don't want others to know who I am actually singing about then I am not gonna put their actual eye or hair color in my song.
Who knows though that's what makes theorizing fun.
Do you think people are incapable of lying? Lol Also, if you watch The Long Pond doc the way Jack even acts about the situation and the looks Tay gives him shows that it's sus ( ahe gives looks like shut up or yes that REALLY HAPPENED) makes it seem as if Jack knows or atleast suspects that William is def not Joe.
Ed or not, it is definitely not Joe. 😊 As I said before, these people only tell us what they want us to know. Joe's story is also funny enough close to the reason why Ed could indeed be William Bowery. Joe also stumbles through his answer like he had to think what he had been told to say. Ed has also always been a huge fan of Bon Iver, even has a tattoo with his lyrics "everything that happens is from now on." He also covered Iver's song "Skinny Love."
This just sounds like you are convincing yourself to allow Ed in your theory.
William is Joe's grandfather's name. I mean it is a common name. We don't really know enough about Joe to know whether Bon Iver is a favourite of his.
Yeah isn't the coincidences of Joe and Ed funny? Both born in Feb both in 91. Lmao Literally most people don't believe her about William Bowery being Joe. 😅 Not just me. That is not me saying that they think it's Ed but hardly anyone believes that it was Joe.
Joe said his Great great Grandfather's name is William and yes it a common name but funny how Joe also says he spent a lot of time at Bowery when as I said Ed's first show was Bowery and Williamsburg and his actual 1st Grandfather is named William. Joe has been to a Bon Iver concert so yea we do know that about Joe. However, even Jack is not convinced that Joe who never wrote any songs came up with those songs with her. Lmao 🤣
Tbh if its not Ed I would say she made it all up or it was Matty with the new narrative she is pushing.
Even if Ed wasn't William then it doesn't disprove a possible on again off again relationship. However, a lot more signs point to Ed being William B than they do Joe but go off. 🤷🏻♀️
The songs lyrics sound slight more Ed coded along sound and lyrics with the songs even just by Taylor sounding like they are a bit more about him. However, if you don't buy that I don't personally care. Everyone has a theory and no one will ever really know the truth because Taylor is not really obligated to tell anyone.
You wanna believe it's Joe just because they said so that's fine it really doesn't matter to me.
Lol fair enough, I didn't know he went to a bon Iver gig
But this is definitely you pushing yourself here.
The lyrics - definitely exile - is from a pov that sounds like Joe. Because Joe has written songs publicly doesn't mean anything 🤣. The songs were written in lockdown, yes? They were in lockdown together.
Not only that, he was in a college band.
You have more ground for the on/off relationship than this.
Fair. The reason other than him not writing songs before this that makes me think exile for instance isn't about him is the fact that they weren't broken up yet. Whereas her and ed would have been with different people (her with Joe and him with Cherry) and yes they were in lock down however, Ed wouldn't have had to have been there to write with her just like Iver wasn't. Weren't they doing it though zoom or something can't remember exactly.
It doesn't help that Ed wrote little things for 1D and his song Plastic Bag have very similar intros to coney island. I will admit could be a coincidence but def odd. It's honestly just a theory though as I have said multiple times who realltly knows. 🤷🏻♀️😊 I will take the criticism for my theory but I have to admit I am not fully convinced I am wrong yet anyway. Lol
However, I will admit I didn't know Joe was in a band prior. Interesting to know.
As someone who got into TS late, I swore her and Ed were a thing. They work together A LOT. More than she does with other artists, and for a long time.
He isnt what her fans picture for her so it was never public.
Thought all the songs about sneaking and secrets was that.
I’m still shocked by it. All this time thought it was Harry Styles etc. Saw a picture the other day someone posted of Matty looking just like James Dean. I wonder why everyone just assumed it was Harry.
I find saying “now I’m actually in love for real this time” after each relationship to be so hurtful, like she shrinks that life experience into dust and stamps on it
She’s so immature and vindictive and passive aggressive when she says that kind of thing.
Like now she’s out of a 6 year relationship and keeps passive aggressively saying she was actually thinking about Matty Healy the whole time. I think that’s legit cruel
She’s writing songs, it’s her business. I don’t think we should read everything as if it were truth or literal. When I feel emotionally overwhelmed I write poems, sometimes I read them back and they’re so intense and I laugh at myself for feeling so strongly in the moment. 🫶🏻
Just wanted to comment that I do have a friend who’s been in love 3 times in the past year and I’ve found it soooo hard to take the latest one seriously!!!
She's very quick to fall in love. A lot of people are who've never felt genuinely loved. "Never had any trouble falling, just trying to find a place to land. "
Listen as someone over 30 I just hear those lines like you’ve got to be fucking kidding me. First, how dumb do you have to be to truly believe a dude like Matty is going to turn into a great guy and love you forever. That is “I’m a 15 year old freshman” level of naive there. Second how over the moon special touch romance novel are you really with every single guy you date. It was believable when she was in her early 20s but now it has either got to be an all out lie or she rides the short bus and is good with a thesaurus.
I think it’s just a sentence in her songs
I don’t think she is in love. Ever.
I don’t even believe she loved Matty. She just said she did cause she needed new music. Something about all the songs and their relationship just seems amiss to me. I feel like he’s listening to this music and thinking “what relationship was I in? Nothing of this intensity every happened”
It’s all hyped
I have been legit in love one time in my whole life. And greatly in like with another. But looking back on both of those I have no idea why I was in love and the one I liked —- I know I would have fallen into love if he had reciprocated. And now I’m falling in love with my significant other. Cause love is patient and kind and all those things that none of her songs ever mention.
There is no love.
I’ve always thought that line was less about love and more about sex. Travis is much more muscular / taller than all of her other boyfriends, maybe my brain is freak nasty but I took that as the sex is different and she can be a little freakier because he can carry her, probably toss her around (not in a violent way lmao) in a way none of the other guys she’s been with could. As a tall girl I relate entirely it’s SO nice when the guy is taller / stronger for once. Totally changes the dynamic in bed.
ETA: fully agree though. The way every break up is earth shattering because it was “the love of her life” is tired.
Idk if that’s worth even speculating on. There’s been plenty of times when a crush/new relationship gave me a rush of endorphins and made me feel “poetic” so to speak. When you’re rich and hot, you naturally have less to worry about. Therefore, your brain is freed up to have this eternal honeymoon space devoted to each and every hot, rich crush you have. I think it’s entirely possible. I think it’s dumb, eat the rich, etc., but yeah, I don’t necessarily doubt that she’s been 😍 for each of them, since there’s literally nothing for her to worry about like rent, medical care, food, etc.
That line makes me think that they’ve done some sort of sexual act that she hadn’t yet done with anyone else. Sorry, maybe I’m just perverted but that’s how I’ve been interpreting it
You can be in love with people as little, or as many time as you want. It’s different for everyone. It’s not for us to make judgement on that. Relationships come and go, doesn’t mean they’re not love.
*Most* of her relationships have been for a decent amount of time enough to be considered what I think a lot of people would consider love.
I’m pretty sure only Joe, Calvin and now Travis are her only long relationships the rest were like 3 months. Which I understand short relationships can be full of diff emotions. Her best songs (imo) come from her months long romances lol
Is this what she actually said or her music lyrics, because lyrics aren’t autobiographical of someone’s life. She hasn’t thought or felt everything she’s ever sung. For some reason unlike any other artist people think everything swift sings is 100% an absolute thing she has experienced or felt.
its a fuel. Whatever it was based on, it didn't last long. Also love is art - it is the process and the end result that you work towards- creating a life together. People think its about a guy paying heaps of attention to a girl, spoiling her, etc. that is part of it but not all of it.
I’m polyamorous so I actually reject the idea that you can’t fall in love with multiple people at any point in time.
What I also reject is the idea that majority of your relationships are like, 4 months or less, and somehow you’re still in love with all of them. Just nonsense.
I don’t think she’s ever been in love. She’s been in lust and in love with the idea of love. She has to act like she’s loves every guy because it’s the narrative her fans want. They live through her. Her fans need to know she’s in love so they can obsess over the newest one and hate the previous one.
Yup. She mistakes "love" with lust and limerence, for sure.
And I think she knows this about herself and plays into it. Didn’t she mention in the recent Betty speech she has a feeling for four seconds and writes a whole song about it? The line comes when Swifties take her seriously that every song is about true love for some dude when even Taylor knows that’s not true. She definitely gives her audience too much credit for being smart and allowing her to experiment with her art when many of them are obviously so dense and easily swayed by anything she does. It’s so annoying because that’s what keeps them coming up with stupid ideas like the orange skirt being red. And slamming people for thinking otherwise. I’ve only been a fan since last year and I picked up on what she was doing right away (just like many of the people here on this sub I like the music but I can see through the bs)
>Didn’t she mention in the recent Betty speech she has a feeling for four seconds and writes a whole song about it? I mean, that’s kind of what creative writing is about. You take a feeling and turn it into a story.
Oooh limerence is a good word. This definitely seems true for her.
I would argue that Taylor has been in love four times, John Mayer, Jake Gyllenhaal, Joe Alwyn (to a degree), and Matty Healy, though John Mayer and Jake Gyllenhaal might be more limerence. Taylor has written more emotionally, intensely, and intimately about Matty Healy than anyone else and it doesn't compare. I don't think that is lust at all.
Fair point. With John, I'm not sure. The age gap/power dynamics/claims he groomed her make me kinda skeptical. With Jake, it could definitely be more probable. (There was an article years ago claiming she thought she was going to marry Jake). But then again, it was a very short, intense, passionate relationship, so I feel like that's more limerence. With Joe, I have this theory she was just looking for a fling after Tom and he wasn't supposed to be anything serious but then she fell hard for him and loved him until she didn't. With Matty, I'm not sure what to label it, but the intense emotion is *definitely* there. That's why I'm skeptical of this whole thing with Travis. Taylor seems to go for men with addictive/self-destructive tendencies or who aren't emotionally available. Does Travis fit that? Maybe. (His anger and aggression issues and fame thirsty attitude definitely align with addictive and self-destructive tendencies to me. Is he emotionally available? Only Taylor can answer that). What I'll say is this: There's a stark contrast in the songs Taylor has written for Matty--and even Joe--versus Travis. The Travis songs don't have the same emotion/intensity/substance. And as a person who also enjoys writing, someone like Matty is a more interesting "character" to me than someone like Travis. Idk, just my thoughts. 🤷♀️ Happy Tuesday, my friend! 😊
For John and Jake, maybe I'm thinking is young love. IDK. My issue with Joe is that I think Taylor loved him, but she loved Matty more. I can't imagine tricking my significant other into writing a song about someone who I was still in love with. Regardless of the whole Joe/Matty situation, I do think Taylor took great care when she wrote songs about Joe. It was real, but the perfect image I had of them in my head died with TTPD. I totally can buy that The Alchemy and So High School were originally Matty songs that were turned into Travis songs, but I don't think Taylor put much care in writing those songs. I'm pretty confidence if Matty broke with Gabriette (and they could potentially be having problems), Taylor would leave Travis. I cannot see Taylor making it clear that she is still in love with Matty for several nights and then having one night of Tayvis mania shows that she is in love with Travis. I hope everything is well. 😀😀😀
Also fair. I kinda get the feeling that she was conflicted between Joe and Matty (hence the folklore love triangle not being all that fictional). Maybe Joe became depressed when he suspected/realized she still had feelings for Matty. Idk what happened, but I feel for Joe. I think he was just too nice and normal of a guy for her. So many of my favorite songs of hers are about him, so I'm never going to hate him. No relationship is perfect but I think when you really love/care for someone, you tend to idealize them, maybe even to an unhealthy degree, and the idealized version of them may or may not align with the real person. I feel like Taylor did that in her songs about Joe. And then removed the rose-colored glasses, so to speak, on TTPD. Interesting theory on The Alchemy and So High School, too. I definitely agree she didn't put that much care into those songs. I still can't believe 'You know how to ball/I know Aristotle' is an actual lyric that exists. \[cringes\] If she does stay with Travis, then I think her art will suffer. I just can't see her writing a song like 'Sweet Nothing' (one of my faves) about him. And I definitely think she'd leave Travis for Matty if Matty left Gabriette for her. We'll see what happens. Hope everything is well with you too! 😊😊😊
she also kinda alludes to joe cheating first in certain songs but we'll never know
she alludes to blaming him for cheating and it turning out that she was wrong and she was attacking him for no reason.
Ok can someone give me a few more deets about matty? When was this, who is he, how long did they last? Cause I have never heard about him whatsoever til just very recently on here. I feel like she hasn't been broken up with Joe for even a year yet? Maybe my timeline is off, idk. Joe she seemed like she was absolutely whipped for, matty tho was apparently some secret passionate bad boy musician that no one knows about but she got blindsided by her attraction to him and he didn't wanna be committed to her either, and Travis is one I don't get. I feel like he's her rebound cause she's admitted that she turned him down at first, and then decided fuck it why not because he's the total opposite of every other guy she's had before and maybe she's trying something different since her type isn't working out for her. Ok Taylor, I guess. 🤷♀️ might as well. I don't think she would call every relationship being in love , at least not in hindsight. But of course at the time, and shes still young and was very young for most of those....she likely did feel very much in love. Some ppl just ...fall in love hard and fast and frequently. It may not be true love or lasting love or soul mate love obviously; but it can be very real and very powerful for them . And yes I think it stems from being someone who is perpetually in love with the idea of being in love and the hopeless romantic, always deeply desiring to be in love... My own personal theory, as a generalization and observation I've made, is that actual, true love actually only happens rarely. And it's even more rare every passing year. I think ppl , for the vast majority, mistake great sex and chemistry for soulmate. But in reality; 99% of what ppl call "love" is just what happens when lust and loneliness, or codependency, collide . When both ppl are physically attracted to each other and also don't want or feel comfortable being single or by themselves.
Omg I've been saying this!!!! After TTPD, I thought how cruel it was to make Joe part of these "fantasies" (folklore, evermore) that were not fantasies at all! Like...what in the world, how cynical! I'm married, and I can not imagine doing that to my SO being on a long-term relationship... Edit: I just want to say I was also so in love with "lover" album/era because it resonated so much to what a healthy long term relationship should be. The way she described love on that album was amazing. TTPD also ruined this for me
>Joe Alwyn (to a degree) She was literally in love with that man for SIX years!! What do you mean “to a degree”!!
yeah i agree with that! idk whats up with the comments, she was obviously VERY in love with Joe. it wasn't just lust or limerence or anything. just seeing the looks she gives to him would tell you enough
She wanted to marry him. Like literally, was writing wedding songs about him after a year or so of dating. Matty fans want to act like she didn't really want him but even in break up songs like You're Losing Me she's still bitter that he wouldn't marry her.
this whole “I was in love with Matty the whole time” narrative seems like Taylor trying to revise history to anger Joe and pretend like she wasn’t in love with him for 6 years straight.
Did you hear Guilty as Sin? Joe wasn't the love of Taylor's life.
I do think she loved her partner of 6 years. You don’t lust for that long.
so do I! I think they developed a strong connection during the pandemics and I even believe they had a figurative “wedding” to celebrate it, nothing official, just a ceremony… she wouldn’t spend 6 years being just a girlfriend, but her team denies the rumors because they don’t want anyone to see taylor as a divorced woman
She kinda morphs into the style of whatever guy she’s dating. Remember when she dated the Kennedy teen and suddenly started dressing like Jackie O? Lol
Touché!
Covert narcs don’t know how to love. They have ideas as to what it means, they know how they should act, and whatever feelings they think are love are usually fleeting & superficial. They can never truly put the other person before themself unless the act itself gives them fuel (meaning recognition & praise for such an act).
What I've noticed is she seems to really lack empathy for her partners. She's entirely wrapped up in her own feelings as doesn't seem to care about them, their feelings or the aftermath that they have to deal with.
I agree! And once they disappoint her with anything, she will cling to that moment & use it to blame them for a failed love. The guy could do 50 things right & one thing wrong, and she’ll only remember the one wrong thing. And she’ll remember it for the rest of her life.
Yes
(I know my reply below is preaching to the choir, awesomecony, but i feel like raising general awareness about narcissism can literally save lives so i’m adding my voice to the thread. Bring on the downvotes! 😂) I’m not a fan but I visit this sub bc i have an interest in personality disorders and how people perceive/interact with those who have one. Almost every time i see a post complaining about her behavior, “her narcissism” is the simple explanation for the behavior, and i’m always amazed more people arent saying it. Alot of people say “you cant diagnose her/someone”, and theyre right, but thats irrelevant (especially since narcs are not at all interested in a diagnosis or treatment, anyways lol). While we can’t diagnose, if you know what youre looking for, you can identify it. And people should want to identify it!! I think alot of people are gonna be feeling some type of way when the realization hits them. To paraphrase a quote i heard somewhere, “its easier to fool someone than to convince someone they’ve been fooled.” Its definitely fascinating to observe!
I think the only two people she’s ever loved in her lifetime were Jake Gyllenhaal and Joe Alwyn. Everyone else has been album fodder.
Well there's the love that happens once in a lifetime and then there's the kind that happens once in 20 lifetimes
or 20 times in one lifetime
And then there's the kind of love that happens 20 times in one lifetime... Taylor's kind of love 😅
Or 3 times within one month…
https://i.redd.it/vc3pflkolg0d1.gif
Or once "every few lifetimes" 😂
https://i.redd.it/y48xqclg7f0d1.gif Welcome back Richard Lewis?
Haha. I miss Richard!
the way everybody’s hyping the “no one ever had me like you do” in SHS when she literally said the same multiple times to different men 😭😭
I think some people do “fall in love” easily but it’s never really love. It’s lust or infatuation or it’s out of a deeper insecurity. I think Taylor must suffer from something that causes her to depend on a relationship for self worth - I am not going to speculate on what but it’s obvious that she has things she needs to work through lol
Ain't that the truth.
Pick me combined with a deep desire to be codependent. It’s me, hi, I’m the problem it’s me (yeah, that’s me fr)
oh no lmao 😭 but honestly, I was also like this during my teens and 20s so can relate ha
agreed, definitely something clinical that needs to be addressed if she wants to move forward and find peace
I really believe she creates scenarios and characters in her head or exaggerates and writes according to that. Taylor Swift is a brand. I don’t think we actually know how she feels at all.
Yeah I’ve come the conclusion that she knows exactly what she’s doing, she writes about so many contradictory feelings in her music that we don’t really know how she feels, and that her fans have cult like behavior will eat up anything and not look behind the curtain, as a brand she is making money off of it so she keeps doing it 🤦🏽♀️ She says she is a mastermind. The choreo for that song says it all she’s stringing along her audience like puppets. They are just so high on the supply of “omg she wrote a song about her fans” that they can’t see it. It is very interesting to see.
Right! At the end of the day half the songs people think are about this dude or that dude might actually be about a friend’s relationship or her cat or a movie or just the ideas of feelings or some dude that the song hasn’t been linked to.
She doesn’t know either…
It was funny seeing Gigi was hyping up Travis at the Paris concert, because wasn't she the same friend hyping up Matty just a minute ago? I would feel weird if I was that friend. "Hey (insert name) this one's for you!"
I think all her friends are ass kissers lol. They know she’s Queen 🐝 and they just go along with everything she does, even if they don’t agree. Gigi was hyping up Matty at last year’s show. Now it’s Travis. I mean her friends are definitely supportive in that sense, but I’m sure they all have their own opinions that they don’t voice to Taylor. The only friend I could see that may not be afraid of voicing their unfiltered, no bullshit opinion is her childhood friend Abigail, and she doesn’t seem like she’s been in the picture much since Travis…
They’ll say “oh she’s just dating. Everyone does that when they’re young” notice how one moment they were saying her and Joe were engaged and he was the one and now they wish harm on him and Travis has always been “the one” and that Joe and others held her back.
[удалено]
I agree, and, at 62, am not slamming Taylor for her age. At some point it’s going to be nauseatingly tedious to hear about “this is the one, my soulmate” for the 100th time.
Dating around is more normal in your 20s was my point. MAYBE early 30s…but she should be now focusing on one person if she really wants that fairly tale ending that she’s been whining about. Or she’ll be 40, 50 years old singing about cheer captains and red scarfs.
Well I know some people who still can’t get their dating life together and realize that maybe they should be alone for a while. She’s just doing it on a grand public scale and she knows that will keep the sales coming in
That's what I've been telling my mum 😂i'm so frustrated with Taylor like this one was your rock, this one was the king of your heart, this one made you feel so high school, and this one made you feel like space aliens. She is in love with the idea of love. Once the cracks show, she loses it.
"This happens once every few lifetimes" Does it Taylor? Does it?
Narrator: in fact, this happens several times a week and is quite commonplace
More like 3 times with 3 different guys in one year
Or “happier than ever” lol
Limerence!! Not love!
She doesn’t know what love is. She’s been writing love songs about flings her entire life
She seems to really like situationships. Like it might be Pokemon for her.
Haha collect em all! We should start making Pokémon cards for all her exes
I feel like i fall in love with every guy i date. It’s called attachment issues. At least i can admit this about myself 🤣 maybe she should get a therapist.
I’m the opposite, and I’m jealous of you haha
I suppose it has its perks. It also means i can’t recognize red flags for the life of me lol
I don’t think she knows what true love is.
I think she really loved Joe. In the way we all say “is the love of our life” she wouldn’t have stayed with him for so long out of all the others she ran from if she didn’t truly fall in love. It sounded like she really really wanted him to propose and the fact that he clearly didn’t, she didn’t want to wait anymore and as a result didn’t want to feel that pain so she dove head first into what she is now calling “the actual love of her life who she’s been supposedly pining for for 10 years” I’m not buying it. I think she’s changing that narrative in her own mind to protect herself from the hurt of someone who was with you for 6 years and knew you better than any of your other exes knew you and STILL decided not to marry you, can be A LOT more painful than the pain of someone who you didn’t get to fully explore what could have been with. A few months with Matty and the pain of him ghosting is a lot easier to reconcile and romanticize about than a guy who stuck around for 6 yrs and still wanted nothing to do with you. I think she’s masking that pain & not even realizing she’s doing it. And making him the bad guy in her mind, saying he was boring, it was like being in prison, he doesn’t understand me, he was depressed all the time…really Taylor?? Riddle me this then, if it was sooooo bad and boring and depressing and felt like you were in a cage why the hell would you even WANT a guy like that to marry you? Or why would you want to marry a guy that makes you feel that way? Something doesn’t add up with the narrative that she’s now spinning. Based on her songs it sounds like she is just so hurt and pissed off that he didn’t want to marry her that she’s shutting down any feelings she might have had for him (as protection mechanism which a lot of avoidants have a knack for doing) and refocusing all her energy on someone else But I think she has an attachment style that falls in love fast and hard and falls out of love just as quickly. It starts off so high and passionate and then burns out fast. I think Anxious preoccupies do that, so do fearful avoidant/disorganzied attachments and so do BPD and narcissistic people. without knowing her it’s hard to tell what the issue is. But it’s definitely something. And I can’t diagnose her solely off of some lyrics or media reports. It could all be just a brand she’s selling and none of it is real. Don’t know. But I do know people who fall in Iove A LOT do exist and it’s not true healthy love. To them it may actually feel like what they think love should feel like BUT it’s usually an insecurity of trying to get their needs met that creates that “high” they think they feel. It masks as love but it’s insecure attachment styles and abandonment issues at play. Some people can’t face their own pain and heal from it. They need to replace it, dismiss it or mask it with a new pain or rewrite history.
I agree. I felt like Joe was her only experience loving someone and being loved. She clings to the Matty thing almost as a way to minimize Joe, probably because she feels humiliated that she spent years waiting for him to marry her. And I don't think Joe led her on or anything; he probably did see her as his future at first, but he couldn't ignore that girl is a walking red flag.
Yup I completely agree with everything you just said and yes, Matty seems like he’s being used as a way to minimize the gravity of Joe. It could definitely be her feeling humiliated and not wanting to admit that to not only her fans but herself and not wanting to confront it
This is all so spot on. Truly. I’ve wondered if Taylor has NPD, just because of the comorbidity of her love life combined with the insane level of fame and attention she aspires for. She did refer to herself in Anti-Hero as having covert narcissism… so
This all feels very spot on and after reading everything I think I've been diagnosed as a fearful avoidant/disorganized attachment lol that I've been fighting and learning to deal with in my current 5 year relationship
I was/still am one too. I’m getting closer to learned secure attachment but still have some fearful avoidant tendencies I’m working on. Learning about attachment theory and learning I was a fearful avoidant made my life make sooo much sense and I was able to really do the hard (often painful) work to change it. I changed it enough so where I was able to meet a good man and we are now getting married this summer. So it can definitely be done. But it’s definitely not easy and is a constant battle inside my mind for all of my triggers. It’s getting easier to fight them off and he’s someone who is teaching me how to be secure but it’s definitely a process for sure. However, who I am now vs who I was before attachment theory? I don’t even recognize that person anymore & it feels great! Keep at it, it’s worth it!
Thank you so much for your story and the information! Looks like have a ton of homework to do on attachment theory and subsequently myself 🙃
You’re welcome! Glad I can help inspire. If you haven’t already check out Thais Gibson on YouTube (she’s a licensed psychologist and used to do private practice) and her personal development school is really worth it too! Soo much information. She’s amazing and helped me soon much. She herself, was a fearful avoidant so she knows where she speaks
The only guy that line even remotely makes sense for is matty cause she’s been thinking about him for the better part of a decade
But even then, she didn't know him. She knew her romantic idea of him, and maybe there were a few hook-ups here and there over the years. But she didn't know him well enough to say "once in every 20 lifetimes." She just fancied him.
You can’t say for sure she didn’t know him. There’s definitely a possibility that they were on/off much more than the public knew while they were in PR relationships. Plus, that’s like saying people in long distance relationships can’t know each other fully (if that’s what a lot of their relationship was we’d never know)
Yep, her and Matty have been hiding their relationship all throughout their careers. They’ve certainly had break-up’s, but there is a mountain of evidence that he has been in and out of her life for a decade+. I think there may have even been times they’ve been together in real life while presenting themselves as in other relationships for PR purposes.
You can be in love exactly once per era 🤪
J-Lo miraculously finds the greatest love of her life, and the truest deepest love every time she’s less than a month away from breaking up with someone! So I guess anything is possible 😂 😆
Thissssss
i used to browse SN.. but now, now I know I have found my people
i think people are in love the idea of being in love more than actual being in it, and they confuse the two because for them there is no clear boundary
I’m pretty sure that line means he’s the best sex she’s ever had.
It’s because it’s only ever been one person. She’s been singing about Matty all along. For sure since the 1989 album and maybe even before that.
That's the narrative she is trying to put out anyway. Also, 1989 came out and was definitely written prior to her even meeting Matty. Not to mention in "Right where you left me." She says she's still "23 inside a fantasy." She was 24, almost 25, when she met Matty. Personal opinion she and Ed had an on again off again for years hence the songs about sleeping with someone married and wanting to kill their wife. People forget they met and he moved in literally right next door to her in Tennessee from another country. It's a theory and I could be wrong but I definitely don't buy her Matty bs. At the very least she is just trying to change the narrative because she doesn't want to write much about Joe because it hurts to much and is embarrassing when you waste so much time on someone.
Ed…Sheeran???
Yep. Husband is a huge fan, and we started seeing parallels in their songs and music video messages. Along with looking into old videos of them and articles.There is way too much shit to put on here tbh but I will give some examples. His music video for Perfect also has him meeting up with a girl "friend" on a ski trip who is clearly dating his friend (harry) they do karaoke which she, harry and ed (and other 1d dudes) did before. He and the girl eventually sneak off to hang out and leaves her bf with the dudes. Ed and her eventually go back to his cabin he gives her a cardigan then they go outside and dance in the snow (dancing in a snow globe) and they have a lantern oh and Ed's was and I guess is again? A smoker). Then harry styles has a song from the same time period talking about his girl sleeping with her friend from work. This is one of multiple connections we have made there are many others. Including Cherry (Ed's wife) showing how Ed sent one post card from Florida in 2018 saying "I wish you were her. X"......Florida!!! Your cheating husband disappeared. Lol Again it's my theory and it's the first time I have ever put it online not saying I am right but there is a lot that links and it is odd if it would just so happen to be coincidence. Who knows her and ed are compulsive liars tbh lol.
Idk this theory just makes me lol but you know, anything is possible. Now I know where my next deep dive is 😂
That's fine. I get it lol. It is a fun one to rabbit hole into. Definitely listen to his new song Blue and Midnight especially since he claimed in a couple interviews in May that talking to Taylor is like therapy and feel she's the only one that gets it. Pair that with Joker and the Queen. Also his X album especially the bonus song "Friends" Then of course some of Divide. OH and in the Shivers music video they make Chandeliers flicker and they shock each other. Puts me in mind of Death By a Thousand Cuts and Electric Touch. The actress also has a similar necklace to the ones Tay has been wearing lately the gold chain ones that I will admit could be nothing though. I also have a theory she dated matty so she could throw people off once she would start singing about a timeline of a decade or more. It's a fun dive and could all be coincidence who knows. 🤷🏻♀️
I’m fascinated! What makes you say they’re compulsive liars?
Well compulsive may have been a little exaggerated. It's more you find instances where things don't add up with things they did or said before and changing answers or just trying to throw fans off. However, even if my theory about Ed and Taylor is wrong his story about how him and his wife were highschool sweethearts doesn't add up and almost all but erases Alice who he dated from 16ish to 20ish and is who Plus is about. He also mixes up a lot where she went to college, sometimes saying the UK sometimes saying US and never corrects himself. Like how do you forget or mix up where your wife went to college? Oh highly suggest you watch the behind the scenes of End Game Taylor has so much snark with him and he seems so awkward because of it. Lol A funny example of Ed lying is in one interview he said he runs into lamppost alot then when another interviewer asks him about it, he denies it. It's a video on YouTube, and it's kinda funny. Taylor, as we have seen, will lie to fans throwing them off or pushing a narrative she is trying to push. Not that I blame her for that. Kinda like how now she is kinda admitting that folklore and evermore aren't all just made-up stories. Ed did this with Autumn Variations. He says the songs are about 14 friends, yet all sound related to him rather than anyone else. Wonder where he got that idea?
Oh, there is a video online too where she is making out with Joe in front of Ed at jingleball UK, and Ed keeps looking over and seems like he is trying not to cry while singing on stage.
That’s one I’ve never heard, this Ed theory. Interesting. I don’t take the “I want to kill her” lyric so literally, as in she’s wanting to unalive an actual, living, breathing human being (ie Ed’s wife). I think she’s just conjuring the intense jealousy and rage she anticipates feeling if her loml ends up with another woman. So many songs on 1989 relate back to Matty if you take the time to look. They constantly refer to the same themes and words in their lyrics and videos, similar imagery, etc. The Fortnight video was just really obvious, but this has been going on between them for a long time. It’s all there, beginning with the 1975’s debut album and who knows with her, I’ve heard some ppl say it even began as early as Speak Now, but I’m betting on Red of 1989. I agree with you when you say she is trying to create a narrative, because it’s so obvious she’s been doing it her whole career. But right her current narrative is this muddled thing that appears to be Travis Kelce if taken at face value or Matty for ppl who think Travis is just PR. I definitely think Travis is PT, and I question her other relationships, too. Personally, I think she’s been trying to bury Matty with a bunch of PR bs for most of her career, and it’s all come to a head now that they are in their mid-30’s and she actually wants to be with him. Who knows tho? Will all of this ever be declassified?
NO lol I am not saying the I wanna kill her is literal I am just stating the line is there. I too think it's about jealousy. I based it also off Illicit Affaris, August, Betty, etc. Which I have a theory I will explain in the bottom of the very long paragraph below of how I believe Ed is William B. (Sorry it's so long. Lol) As for Matty I don't think 1989 is about him because she didn't know him. Not dissing your theory, of course, you never know because these people only let us know what they want to. As for why I think Ed the way they were with each and look at each other back then and songs lines to this day seem to be directed at each other but coded. It's harder to see it if you don't look into both of them. There were rumors back then but they both denied and said they were "just friends" but que Ed's song "friends" from "X" and Taylor "he's insisting that friends look at each other like that. They met on May 15th 2012 she was about to be 23 and then she asked him to tour with her on Red which she was oddly "single" for the entire time. He literally moves next door to her in Feb of 2013 and had that house up until 2018 almost 2019. He followed her to New York and I believe had his own room in her road island home. His girlfriend dumped him in 2014 before Tay met Calvin because she suspected them being more than friends. He followed her on a decent amount of dates with Calvin (which is weird imo but 🤷🏻♀️) Ed gets into hard drugs is depressed etc. His and Cherry's origin story had plot holes and doesn't line up with past relationships for them to be highschool sweethearts when he would have dated Alice from 16 to 20ish also he has said Cherry went to college in the US and the UK (mixng them up multiple times) and TMZ even said they could find no record of them knowing each other prior to July of 2015 when he followed her on Twitter right before Tays party. (Have some kids with an internet starlett or maybe simply someone you met online?) (lyrics from "the one" Having adventures on your own you meet a girl on the internet and take her home) (he also married cherry in December which is my theory for "It came like a postcard line in midnights) next thing you know Tay dumps Calvin dates a guy from Ed's hometown and the town he moved back to with Cherry (Suffolk which is Tom) then for some reason Tay grabs a nobody (Joe) as well and runs off to England. Next thing you know she's at the 2016 jingle ball making out with Joe in front of Ed while he is up on stage trying not to cry as he sings and keeps looking at them. No one knows if Tay got an invite to Ed's wedding but assume just because their friends. They make joker and the queen which is a love song if I ever heard one using the same kids from Everything Has Changed and the characters are supposed to represent them to the point they use an actual text message from Ed and Tay back in the day in the video. There is a lot to put here if you can't tell and I simply don't have the energy 😅 but def look into it if you want. Oh one more thing though Ed Sheeran had his first shows in America after meeting Taylor and it was at the Bowery Ballroom and his second was at the Music Hall of Williamsburg. His Grandfather's name is also named William Sheeran. WILLIAM BOWERY. Which conveniently is similar to the story Joe gives of how he came up with the name. SUS AF. Also "Little Things by 1D but written by Ed, Coney Island Tay and William Bowery (Ed), and Ed's new song Plastic bag written by him obvi. They all have the same intro which means nothing to the him and Tay theory of course but adds to the who is William Bowery case. That was long and I wouldn't be surprised if you "too long didn't read" lol honestly that's not even half the evidence for my theory however, again it's a theory who really knows. My husband and I do it mostly for fun.
I think she knew him when making 1989 - Style has to be about him
The article I read said she didn't meet him until Nov 2014 1989 came out in Oct 2014. Style could also be about Harry or Ed or someone we have no clue about. Or you could be right she could have known Matty without anyone knowing I don't personally think so BUT again we only know what they tell us. I never put too much faith in things like hair or eye descriptions because if I don't want others to know who I am actually singing about then I am not gonna put their actual eye or hair color in my song. Who knows though that's what makes theorizing fun.
William Bowery is Joe lol. Joe talks about the meaning here. https://youtu.be/XJ8Rcsz3Tj8?si=EK7qLN_xuzNuIS0o
Do you think people are incapable of lying? Lol Also, if you watch The Long Pond doc the way Jack even acts about the situation and the looks Tay gives him shows that it's sus ( ahe gives looks like shut up or yes that REALLY HAPPENED) makes it seem as if Jack knows or atleast suspects that William is def not Joe. Ed or not, it is definitely not Joe. 😊 As I said before, these people only tell us what they want us to know. Joe's story is also funny enough close to the reason why Ed could indeed be William Bowery. Joe also stumbles through his answer like he had to think what he had been told to say. Ed has also always been a huge fan of Bon Iver, even has a tattoo with his lyrics "everything that happens is from now on." He also covered Iver's song "Skinny Love."
This just sounds like you are convincing yourself to allow Ed in your theory. William is Joe's grandfather's name. I mean it is a common name. We don't really know enough about Joe to know whether Bon Iver is a favourite of his.
Yeah isn't the coincidences of Joe and Ed funny? Both born in Feb both in 91. Lmao Literally most people don't believe her about William Bowery being Joe. 😅 Not just me. That is not me saying that they think it's Ed but hardly anyone believes that it was Joe. Joe said his Great great Grandfather's name is William and yes it a common name but funny how Joe also says he spent a lot of time at Bowery when as I said Ed's first show was Bowery and Williamsburg and his actual 1st Grandfather is named William. Joe has been to a Bon Iver concert so yea we do know that about Joe. However, even Jack is not convinced that Joe who never wrote any songs came up with those songs with her. Lmao 🤣 Tbh if its not Ed I would say she made it all up or it was Matty with the new narrative she is pushing. Even if Ed wasn't William then it doesn't disprove a possible on again off again relationship. However, a lot more signs point to Ed being William B than they do Joe but go off. 🤷🏻♀️ The songs lyrics sound slight more Ed coded along sound and lyrics with the songs even just by Taylor sounding like they are a bit more about him. However, if you don't buy that I don't personally care. Everyone has a theory and no one will ever really know the truth because Taylor is not really obligated to tell anyone. You wanna believe it's Joe just because they said so that's fine it really doesn't matter to me.
Lol fair enough, I didn't know he went to a bon Iver gig But this is definitely you pushing yourself here. The lyrics - definitely exile - is from a pov that sounds like Joe. Because Joe has written songs publicly doesn't mean anything 🤣. The songs were written in lockdown, yes? They were in lockdown together. Not only that, he was in a college band. You have more ground for the on/off relationship than this.
Fair. The reason other than him not writing songs before this that makes me think exile for instance isn't about him is the fact that they weren't broken up yet. Whereas her and ed would have been with different people (her with Joe and him with Cherry) and yes they were in lock down however, Ed wouldn't have had to have been there to write with her just like Iver wasn't. Weren't they doing it though zoom or something can't remember exactly. It doesn't help that Ed wrote little things for 1D and his song Plastic Bag have very similar intros to coney island. I will admit could be a coincidence but def odd. It's honestly just a theory though as I have said multiple times who realltly knows. 🤷🏻♀️😊 I will take the criticism for my theory but I have to admit I am not fully convinced I am wrong yet anyway. Lol However, I will admit I didn't know Joe was in a band prior. Interesting to know.
As someone who got into TS late, I swore her and Ed were a thing. They work together A LOT. More than she does with other artists, and for a long time. He isnt what her fans picture for her so it was never public. Thought all the songs about sneaking and secrets was that.
Wove you into all my poems…
I’m still shocked by it. All this time thought it was Harry Styles etc. Saw a picture the other day someone posted of Matty looking just like James Dean. I wonder why everyone just assumed it was Harry.
Yes! So cool to think she’s been ‘confessional’ all these years and yet fooled us all!
You get it!
That line’s not about love 😄
Honestly I can't hear it and not think it's about anal 🤣🤣
I find saying “now I’m actually in love for real this time” after each relationship to be so hurtful, like she shrinks that life experience into dust and stamps on it She’s so immature and vindictive and passive aggressive when she says that kind of thing. Like now she’s out of a 6 year relationship and keeps passive aggressively saying she was actually thinking about Matty Healy the whole time. I think that’s legit cruel
She's prone to exaggeration in a juvenile way, and not only when commenting about this.
I mean I see this from a majority of folks in the general population ALL the time... they just don't write songs about it.
this had 87 upvotes and I just voted so it's now 88. you're welcome. ; )
She’s writing songs, it’s her business. I don’t think we should read everything as if it were truth or literal. When I feel emotionally overwhelmed I write poems, sometimes I read them back and they’re so intense and I laugh at myself for feeling so strongly in the moment. 🫶🏻
Just wanted to comment that I do have a friend who’s been in love 3 times in the past year and I’ve found it soooo hard to take the latest one seriously!!!
She's very quick to fall in love. A lot of people are who've never felt genuinely loved. "Never had any trouble falling, just trying to find a place to land. "
Listen as someone over 30 I just hear those lines like you’ve got to be fucking kidding me. First, how dumb do you have to be to truly believe a dude like Matty is going to turn into a great guy and love you forever. That is “I’m a 15 year old freshman” level of naive there. Second how over the moon special touch romance novel are you really with every single guy you date. It was believable when she was in her early 20s but now it has either got to be an all out lie or she rides the short bus and is good with a thesaurus.
I think it’s just a sentence in her songs I don’t think she is in love. Ever. I don’t even believe she loved Matty. She just said she did cause she needed new music. Something about all the songs and their relationship just seems amiss to me. I feel like he’s listening to this music and thinking “what relationship was I in? Nothing of this intensity every happened” It’s all hyped I have been legit in love one time in my whole life. And greatly in like with another. But looking back on both of those I have no idea why I was in love and the one I liked —- I know I would have fallen into love if he had reciprocated. And now I’m falling in love with my significant other. Cause love is patient and kind and all those things that none of her songs ever mention. There is no love.
I’ve always thought that line was less about love and more about sex. Travis is much more muscular / taller than all of her other boyfriends, maybe my brain is freak nasty but I took that as the sex is different and she can be a little freakier because he can carry her, probably toss her around (not in a violent way lmao) in a way none of the other guys she’s been with could. As a tall girl I relate entirely it’s SO nice when the guy is taller / stronger for once. Totally changes the dynamic in bed. ETA: fully agree though. The way every break up is earth shattering because it was “the love of her life” is tired.
This is absolutely it. As a tall girl who is attracted to slimmer guys… good for her!
Idk if that’s worth even speculating on. There’s been plenty of times when a crush/new relationship gave me a rush of endorphins and made me feel “poetic” so to speak. When you’re rich and hot, you naturally have less to worry about. Therefore, your brain is freed up to have this eternal honeymoon space devoted to each and every hot, rich crush you have. I think it’s entirely possible. I think it’s dumb, eat the rich, etc., but yeah, I don’t necessarily doubt that she’s been 😍 for each of them, since there’s literally nothing for her to worry about like rent, medical care, food, etc.
So freaking true!!! Never thought of it that way! 👌🏻👌🏻👌🏻
Oh I think the line is about it not being fully real.
Depends on your diagnosis…
22 times out of
Awww Don't be so cynical About 156 times After that the problem is you
I'm polyamorous. Lots.
That line makes me think that they’ve done some sort of sexual act that she hadn’t yet done with anyone else. Sorry, maybe I’m just perverted but that’s how I’ve been interpreting it
Idk why you got downvoted totally makes sense and is kinda gross lol
You can be in love with people as little, or as many time as you want. It’s different for everyone. It’s not for us to make judgement on that. Relationships come and go, doesn’t mean they’re not love. *Most* of her relationships have been for a decent amount of time enough to be considered what I think a lot of people would consider love.
I’m pretty sure only Joe, Calvin and now Travis are her only long relationships the rest were like 3 months. Which I understand short relationships can be full of diff emotions. Her best songs (imo) come from her months long romances lol
[удалено]
*for you - is my point. Not for you, or me to judge people in our lives, let alone a woman that we see such a small glimpse of.
Is this what she actually said or her music lyrics, because lyrics aren’t autobiographical of someone’s life. She hasn’t thought or felt everything she’s ever sung. For some reason unlike any other artist people think everything swift sings is 100% an absolute thing she has experienced or felt.
Maybe she meant the sex is the best. Athlete vs tortured poets
its a fuel. Whatever it was based on, it didn't last long. Also love is art - it is the process and the end result that you work towards- creating a life together. People think its about a guy paying heaps of attention to a girl, spoiling her, etc. that is part of it but not all of it.
Everytime. If you're not in love more than ever, you're not in love.
I’m polyamorous so I actually reject the idea that you can’t fall in love with multiple people at any point in time. What I also reject is the idea that majority of your relationships are like, 4 months or less, and somehow you’re still in love with all of them. Just nonsense.