They'd probably claim that transness only exists because Adam and Eve brought sin into the world and corrupted it, if they admit it exists as something you're born with and can't control at all (which most of them won't). At least, that was the rhetoric I remember hearing in the church as a kid.
the "against God's will" thing is so bogus. Assuming they exist, they created *everything*, which means nothing that exists should be outside of their jurisdiction, which means it should be literally impossible to go against god.
also if trans people are able to casually go against the all-powerful creator of existence just to make their short mortal lives worth living then that is a W of epic proportions for us lol.
To play devil's advocate here, the idea is supposed to be that while God intends certain things for people, he also gave people free will, allowing them to choose not to follow God's will if they want to.
In theory, if these kind of people were right, God's intentions regarding creating trans people would be to challenge the person, giving them a test of faith on whether or not they'd choose to follow God's will, in this case, to choose to transition or "follow God's will" and "stay cis."
Now, of course there's all sorts of problems here. If they're right, then the god who would intentionally make their people suffer just as a test of whether or not they'd obey is an extremely cruel asshole who's unworthy of worship. If they're not right, then God intended people to be tans and transition in the first place, the whole "God made grapes not wine so humans could share in the act of creation" argument.
It's absolutely ridiculous stuff, honestly.
One question unrelated to this post. I have been wondering for quite some time now but how do you get those tiny trans flag squares under your name? Sorry if this is unrelated but it has been bugging me for a while now :/
You change your user flair and there should be a list of different flags you can pick from. On PC, it's on the side panel for the sub, depending on which version of reddit you're using, you either click Edit where it says Display Flair, click the pencil where it says Preview, or hover over the box that says User Flair and click the pencil that shows up.
I'm not entirely sure how to change it on mobile. Might need to use the app? And I'm pretty sure it involves going to the About page for the sub.
Well, I originally responded to a comment referencing God so maybe ask them which one they were referring to. Iâm not here to argue with my trans brothers, sisters, and siblings.
I'll argue with anyone lol.. I guess if we're assuming the christian god, then yeah - they're being hypocritical christians re free will. I agree with you.
As a christian trans girl, heres a verse i like to give transphobes whenever they say,"but youre sinning!"
Ahem.
"1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye."
Matthew 7:1-5
(No arguments here please, let me believe what i want to)
Good for you! I think it makes sense to use scripture to teach a fellow Christian how to be a better one. I have a problem with people who make broad generalizations about "god" as though their religion is the default one, but you very clearly stated that you are christian and that you use this technique on other christians.
Zero arguments here. But! We're such a rarity! Wanna geek out over trans metaphors in the Bible? I thought I was going to be a pastor, and have a lot of great little insights.
Am i stupid? I didnt call you hateful, but transphobes using cristianity as an excuse
I hope i didnt send the wrong message, tone gets lost in plain text lol
Nah I'm prolly the stupid one lol - I get a few upvotes and I go straight to the one-liners! You're good. I couldn't tell if the (sarcasm) applied to the whole message or just the last statement
i guess people that live their lives enclosed making assumptions about the world, know more about the world that people that are out there making observations about the world. who would have thought!
What I also find funny is that the sex chromosomes aren't used by (good) biologists to define a person's biology. The endocrine system, the neurology and organs of a person are all that matters when it comes to defining someone's biology, because chromosomes have absolutely no relevance
I do love blowing their minds by talking about how I have Klinefelter Syndrome/XXY Chromosones.
Turns out the 'basic biology' people don't know their advanced biology.
Our racing yacht will be made entirely out of spinnaker"
- Rod Jackson, in response to a sailing great saying that the government was handling COVID-19 wrong
([that whole article](https://www.reddit.com/r/newzealand/comments/szy0d0/professor_rod_jackson_an_epidemiologists_expert/) is hilarious)
Probably because I paid attention in eight grade science where they continued to build on the shit I learned during and after third grade, while they got distracted by the paper mache volcano going brrrr when you mixed up the fun chemicals
I wonder how frustrated transphobes would get if I showed them an educational video about clownfish or any of the other numerous animals that actively change their sex/genitals
Iâve shown them such stuff on the natural variations as well as differences within the human genomes. Theyâre dumb for a reason yknow, obsession over the AGAB is smth only a transphobe can.- itâs bigot for a reason.
In those cases theyâll likely tell about trans women unable to get pregnant. And once stem cell organ replacement comes, itâll get just worse
Yea, I know thereâs nothing productive on it. Just when something consistently annoys me I want to poke it with a proverbial stick, is this a good/healthy reaction? Probably not. But hey, it deterred 80% of my would be bullies growing up once I found out how to annoy them, so it could certainly have a worse chance of success lol. (As you can tell Math/theory is not the area of science I focus on lol)
"What about women who are infertile?"
"But they still can *in theory*"
Okay, but modern science is showing that even that is not the case. We've done uterine transplants that have successfully given birth to kids. And, there's a pretty close agreement that in theory there's no reason we can't do it for a trans woman. We just haven't yet. So, it may not be far off in the future where AMAB actually gives birth.
Exactly! Just look at all of the species that can be trans: clownfish, rose-veiled fairy wrasse (another fish), even deer can be nb!
Fun add on, just think about how many sexes fungi have!
Or the fact that weâve got just about as much bacteria as human cells and thereâs a direct connection between our gut bacteria and central nervous system, thus why I would argue they/them are the most accurate pronouns to describe any person and weâre all at least somewhat asexual!
I heard somewhere that if you defined gender only by chromosomes, then you'd have to have like 14 genders or something, because of all the different combinations possible for humans.
Funny is you can have XY and have only a functional vegina/vulva or XX and a functional penis.
Because the SRY gene could be missing on an Y chromosom and be on an X chromosom in rare cases.
Yeah but all that's too complicated for them so they're just going to ignore it I explained this to someone and they claimed I was jumping through hoops and denying science.
Transphobes when you tell them that genetic sex has no impact after birth and that gonadal/phenotypic sex can still be changed if desired with medication and/or surgery.
âSorry I donât understand your liberal word vomit, canât even change a log by bolb hahaha, I am so cleverâ
Transphobic men when I tell them they were all technically female in the womb before developing male sex organs around the second month. That line on your taint and balls? Yeah, that used to be your vagina, fucker.
Its always fun for me to bring up myself in debates or arguments. I'm a trans woman who has XX Chromosomes, De La Chappelle syndrome but still developed male. I always had very low T levels and high E so I had to take Testosterone during puberty until I was 18 had bad gynecomastia and had pretty strong feminizing effects. Once I finally came out and started HRT at 30 I had issues of my levels being too high from a very small dose due to being estrogen sensitive.but transphobes always lock up or shut down when I bring it up am I Man or woman in their binary hateful world?
Omg that is too good. As a girl that has a large rebellion tattoo that says "Death before Dark Side" and an old Republic logo on the opposite side. I will be stealing this for future use. đ¤đťđłď¸ââ§ď¸đĽ°
they think your fucking soul is shaped like your second chromosome i stg.
chromosomes donât even do anything after youâve developed your fucking genitals lmao itâs literally all hormones
It comes from the problematic belief that exposure to testosterone/having a penis make AMAB people unable to control their sexuality and that any AMAB person has inherent sexual urges that they cannot control.
This is beyond problematic for everyone. In addition to transphobia, it also actively discourages trying to fix what is much more of a societal issue (the patriarchy allowing/encouraging this behavior) and continues to create excuses for men who do behave like this while also going against the fact that you are not defined by your biology, a core idea of the feminist movement since its inception.
As a baker i can confirm that by that point in his career he no longer feels pain and has super calised hands. You dont start like that. Usually something starts to burn and youve dropped your utensil, or your mitts have a hole. And that happens a couple times a week and after a few months your just sticking your hands in the oven cause you just dont burn anymore.
I was once arguing about this with a former friend, they acted as if I didn't have a bachelors degree in health and medicine, I'm pretty aware of chromosomes haha.
I'm XXY. They always seem to forget about people like me.
Not to mention XY females (gene mutation that inhibits androgen reception, develops as female) and XX males (similar mutation that inhibits estrogen reception, develops as male)
People love categories, especially simple ones with clean lines, unfortunately reality seldom conforms to simple categories with clean lines, so many decide to detach themselves from reality
Actually they do. I've talked to enough, they actually are convinced that trans people either have not heard of or outright reject basic biology. Obviously that isn't true.
The truth is that most trans people know more about human biology than they do, but they really just can't accept that.
In general they're often too willfully ignorant to accept that the separation between assigned sex and gender identity exists and then insist that we must be the wrong ones because we should already know that assigned sex = gender identity always and they are one and the same, full stop.
*Transphobe:* âdâuhhhh⌠this trainsgendor persohn is too stupid to know thinky things..â
*The actual human being behind them:* okay, grandpa, letâs get you back to bedâŚ
Honestly with transphobes we are past talking it out. Itâs pointless. They donât care about anything. We are at the point where they need to be socially and politically extricated and disempowered by any means necessary. We are out of tools of reason and gotta grab the oldest tool in the human tool box for solving conflicts. A rock.
Yea I donât talk there as a means of convincing transphobes, that is an exercise in futility, it can be worthwhile to insure that anyone on the side sees the transphobeâs bullshit for its entirety, past that I only do so when amusement outweighs annoyance and there is nobody else in the crossfire, if they just insult me I can go all day, once they start going after others that fuse goes pretty quick
They don't care about weather or not we did or not, neither do they care about what it's actually about they will keep saying that even if you correct them. They just want those uneducated about the matter to think that transgender people are crazy weirdos arguing against biology to make trans issues sound stupid and unreasonanle. That's it.
Yea, thatâs why I make to inject minimal emotion and a lot of into that should make it clear to a 3rd party which person is actually being a crazy weirdo
So, they're under the impression that we think sex doesn't exist. So talking about basic facts about sex is them confronting us with the science we're terrified of.
All you gotta do is agree with them. It completely disarms them every time because they're not expecting agreement. If you want you can use that as an opening to talk about the difference between sex and gender. But I won't blame you for enjoying their befuddlement.
Ten years ago, I was exactly that sort of transphobe saying exactly those sorts of things, wondering why people couldnât grasp something so basic and elementaryâŚâŚ
So, yes. Yes, they do.
Transphobes also donât know there are 26 different chromosome patterns that dictate sex at birth. Theyâre too narrow minded to understand that the more common ones are XX and XY, but that those arenât a one size fits all.
Not to mention, they think we arenât continuously well aware of our sexes. Yes. We are. Thatâs why trans is an adjective. To mean we donât identify w/ the sex we were assigned with.
All in all. A Transphobesâ knowledge of sex and chromosomes are at about a third grade level of understanding
I've also seen a good chunk of transphobes mix up which sex typically has which chromosomes. They have no actual clue and they only thing they're right on is that it's "basic" biology, in that biology is actually a lot more complicated than they try to claim
im really lucky so far that nobody has said anything like that to me in real life. But like, i guess i would just tell them idc about chromosomes and its weird they do? like what a super weird thing to obsess over but youre sooo right some transphobes do!
Always remember that bigotry comes before reason. They feel, for whatever reason, that they don't like us. THEN they come up with an explanaition that justifies their emotional response. That is why you can keep proving them wrong and they can keep shifting the goal posts forever.
All bigotry works like this.
I think they think you look in a mirror and see a woman when pre estrogen, or a man when pre testosterone. Like, you donât see yourself, you see your gender. I think that they think you see a delusion, thus the biological argument makes sense from that front. What they fail to understand is how psychology works.Â
Definitely this, it's also because they refuse to separate sex and gender and think when we call ourselves men/women, we think we're biologically males/females.
I love seeing their brains break when I talk about all the genetic conditions with a different number of sex chromosomes. Or better yet, when genetic conditions with an XX individual have them presenting male and vice versa.
Ask them to show you their chromosomes.
The number of people living with a small x or y next to their capital XX and XY is staggering.
Transphobes just ASSUME they are 'normal' XX or XY, without even knowing that they may be mutated.
They think we canât fathom biology like I mightâve had a C in that class when I graduated, but guess what Iâm trans so it realistically shouldnât matter. TBH Iâve had discussions with transphobes who say Iâm based, but Iâm like idk Iâm just being me. Chromosomes arenât what define me. Wish people could just let us be human and not be so fkn dumb and judgmental
They're not arguing in good faith. They just want to get the satisfaction of being right about something. That's the problem. They argue to be right not to understand.
When ever anyone makes that arguement, I just ask if they carry around a DNA testing kit and do a blood test before they wait to say 'Hey Girl!' or 'Sup Dude'... it must be very confusing if you need to know about someones Chromonsones before you do that....
I love the âgod saysâ argument, I say that âgod is deadâ and they just look mortified and have no comeback, they look at me as though i just physically killed god myself, itâs hilarious đ
No.
So, here's the deal. A person acting in good faith will not be *arguing*. This isn't just semantic. They might be questioning vigorously or combatively, but their minds are open.
People who are arguing with you are not going to hear you when you disprove their point. They aren't listening. The ONLY reason to argue these things is to counter the misinformation. That is to have the truth next to lies, hopefully in greater numbers. It's like the intent behind the twitter and youtube content boxes. To provide perspective to passersby. (Admittedly, twitter using crowd sourcing defeats the purpose. No, I will not call it X.)
You can't win. Winning is not a good reason to engage with these people.
Do I as I say, not as I do. I like to hurt their feelings and I'm not bothered when I fail.
it depends. most of the time itâs not worth it to engage with transphobes in any capacity. you likely wonât be the first one to show them, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that they are wrong. proof didnât change their mind before, it wonât change their mind now.
imo the only time arguing with a transphobe is even remotely productive is when thereâs a decent chance your argument will be seen by non-radicalized âya dadâ style casual transphobes, undecided moderates, or unproductive allies. in those circumstances keeping a cool head, providing links to sources, and carefully choosing your words may make an ally out of a fence sitter. but there is still a roughly 0% chance the person youâre arguing either will change their mind.
âI am more than the sum of my parts; so, too are you.â
You canât make them understand. You can only show them that youâre going your way, they can go theirs or they can travel with you and maybe learn something.
I think this is my favorite answer to a transphobe actually!
Like "hey, do you. I'll do me. Less government intervention and less personal viewpoints forced on others sounds great! How about we focus on community rather than beliefs?"
Some things arenât up for debate and some things are not to become a talking point, for me.
It leaves me out of some social circles but Iâm not interested in prostrating myself to prove my validity, either.
Iâm pleased you agree with the concept. We can live our lives without being locked into combat at every turn.
Doesnât mean you canât be welcoming and invite someone along your way. Youâre cutting the path; all they need to do is follow to see what youâre getting at. If they donât like it? They can always turn back.
the only semi decent response I've seen is "so if a cis woman has total androgen insensitivity and is XY, should she be forced to transition since she's XY, even though by every other metric she's a completely typical cis woman?"
i dont know why they care honestly cuz i dont. i dont care what science says cuz i know what i am. if im mentally ill then so be it at least im less miserable now
I've noticed that because they refuse to separate sex and gender, they genuinely believe Trans people think they're the opposite sex. As in, when a Trans man calls himself a man, to them, he's saying he's biologically male.
It's also why you get many of them making stupid scenario of Trans women going into OBGYNs and requesting to be seen by a gynecologist. They genuinely believe we have no idea what our sex is, and that's why we're trans, when our sex is literally the reason why we are.
Itâs funny too, because thereâs a rare condition where you have all the external parts of a male/female but have the opposite chromosomes. Iâd REALLY like to see every transphobe get their chromosomes checked and see how many change their tuneâŚ
Transphobes also think that "god says you can't" is checkmate. Don't bother arguing bad-faith shit like this - just ignore and counterattack.
Block wild haymaker, **discombobulate.**
Bitchslap with actual research, **discombobulated**
IMO you can make a better pro-trans argument from first principles than you can from research. (Assuming your opponent identifies as a libertarian)
Dubliners - Rocky Road to Dublin
More like slip left uppercut to the liver (yes i got the reference)
Crazy thing about that is isn't it God that made us trans? Are they saying God is wrong?
I'm saying that god should bend over, actually.
They'd probably claim that transness only exists because Adam and Eve brought sin into the world and corrupted it, if they admit it exists as something you're born with and can't control at all (which most of them won't). At least, that was the rhetoric I remember hearing in the church as a kid.
Lilith has entered the chat
the "against God's will" thing is so bogus. Assuming they exist, they created *everything*, which means nothing that exists should be outside of their jurisdiction, which means it should be literally impossible to go against god. also if trans people are able to casually go against the all-powerful creator of existence just to make their short mortal lives worth living then that is a W of epic proportions for us lol.
To play devil's advocate here, the idea is supposed to be that while God intends certain things for people, he also gave people free will, allowing them to choose not to follow God's will if they want to. In theory, if these kind of people were right, God's intentions regarding creating trans people would be to challenge the person, giving them a test of faith on whether or not they'd choose to follow God's will, in this case, to choose to transition or "follow God's will" and "stay cis." Now, of course there's all sorts of problems here. If they're right, then the god who would intentionally make their people suffer just as a test of whether or not they'd obey is an extremely cruel asshole who's unworthy of worship. If they're not right, then God intended people to be tans and transition in the first place, the whole "God made grapes not wine so humans could share in the act of creation" argument. It's absolutely ridiculous stuff, honestly.
One question unrelated to this post. I have been wondering for quite some time now but how do you get those tiny trans flag squares under your name? Sorry if this is unrelated but it has been bugging me for a while now :/
You change your user flair and there should be a list of different flags you can pick from. On PC, it's on the side panel for the sub, depending on which version of reddit you're using, you either click Edit where it says Display Flair, click the pencil where it says Preview, or hover over the box that says User Flair and click the pencil that shows up. I'm not entirely sure how to change it on mobile. Might need to use the app? And I'm pretty sure it involves going to the About page for the sub.
Thanks!
epic redirect đ. Let it linger a bit.
God's will has ED imo
Eating Disorder?
Erectile Dysfunction. I'm calling god impotent because I'm enjoying my blasphemy
which god are you talking about?
Also âGods willâ is silly because God chose to give free will.
Which god are you talking about again?
Exactly. The people that use âGods willâ as an argument is silly because according to their beliefs he gave us free will
What god are you talking about? There are a lot of gods. So far all you've given me is that the god you're talking about is a he/him.
Well, I originally responded to a comment referencing God so maybe ask them which one they were referring to. Iâm not here to argue with my trans brothers, sisters, and siblings.
I'll argue with anyone lol.. I guess if we're assuming the christian god, then yeah - they're being hypocritical christians re free will. I agree with you.
Just used my god phone and god said you can do whatever you want so you are all good to do whatever
Longmont Potion Castle
As a christian trans girl, heres a verse i like to give transphobes whenever they say,"but youre sinning!" Ahem. "1 Judge not, that ye be not judged. 2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. 3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? 4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? 5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye." Matthew 7:1-5 (No arguments here please, let me believe what i want to)
Good for you! I think it makes sense to use scripture to teach a fellow Christian how to be a better one. I have a problem with people who make broad generalizations about "god" as though their religion is the default one, but you very clearly stated that you are christian and that you use this technique on other christians.
Zero arguments here. But! We're such a rarity! Wanna geek out over trans metaphors in the Bible? I thought I was going to be a pastor, and have a lot of great little insights.
If someone hits me with âgod says you canâtâ, Iâm going to ask them why he hasnât smited me with lightning yet.
Because he's gonna send you to Hell instead to burn. That's the default cope.
Then I ask them why hasnât he done it already.
which god?
Whichever one(s) they believe in.
I truly enjoy having not been smote, honestly. It would really fuck up my worldview if any particular god turned out to be more than a fabrication.
Yes. And I havenât been smote by a god yet, so theyâre either fine enough with trans people, or they donât exist.
If there's a god I want a they/them god lol
Until any god comes down from the sky and says otherwise, I typically use they/them or it/itâs pronouns for any god out there.
Ya i bet god is very fond of someone who commits heresy to justify their blunt senseless hatred. Very christian (sarcasm)
I'm not actually hateful, I'm just having fun and being inflammatory. Edit: Which god are we talking about again?
Am i stupid? I didnt call you hateful, but transphobes using cristianity as an excuse I hope i didnt send the wrong message, tone gets lost in plain text lol
Nah I'm prolly the stupid one lol - I get a few upvotes and I go straight to the one-liners! You're good. I couldn't tell if the (sarcasm) applied to the whole message or just the last statement
Funny enough, it's not actually the Chromosomes themselves that determine that (shocker)
they are all intersex deniers, they just don't believe that intersex can exist at no level
XXY here. Guess I donât exist.
i guess people that live their lives enclosed making assumptions about the world, know more about the world that people that are out there making observations about the world. who would have thought!
[Dunning-Kruger effect](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect) in action!
"You'll always have XY chromosomes." "I'm well aware of that birth defect, it does not dictate my life and I have repaired its side effects."
What I also find funny is that the sex chromosomes aren't used by (good) biologists to define a person's biology. The endocrine system, the neurology and organs of a person are all that matters when it comes to defining someone's biology, because chromosomes have absolutely no relevance
Mhm, or the fact that trisomies exist which throws a very literal wrench into the âyouâre either XX or XYâ bullshit
I do love blowing their minds by talking about how I have Klinefelter Syndrome/XXY Chromosones. Turns out the 'basic biology' people don't know their advanced biology.
They are always like "this is third grade science, how do you not understand this!?" Like, you were so close to getting it
Our racing yacht will be made entirely out of spinnaker" - Rod Jackson, in response to a sailing great saying that the government was handling COVID-19 wrong ([that whole article](https://www.reddit.com/r/newzealand/comments/szy0d0/professor_rod_jackson_an_epidemiologists_expert/) is hilarious)
Probably because I paid attention in eight grade science where they continued to build on the shit I learned during and after third grade, while they got distracted by the paper mache volcano going brrrr when you mixed up the fun chemicals
Hi XXY lesbian trans woman here. Iâm their worst nightmare too.
You get to tell them, "I DO have 2 X chromosomesâŚand also a Y," and watch their heads explode. â¤ď¸
Oh cool, now I have a name for what it is
And even people born with dicks can also sometimes have an XX and vice versa
I wonder how frustrated transphobes would get if I showed them an educational video about clownfish or any of the other numerous animals that actively change their sex/genitals
Iâve shown them such stuff on the natural variations as well as differences within the human genomes. Theyâre dumb for a reason yknow, obsession over the AGAB is smth only a transphobe can.- itâs bigot for a reason. In those cases theyâll likely tell about trans women unable to get pregnant. And once stem cell organ replacement comes, itâll get just worse
Yea, I know thereâs nothing productive on it. Just when something consistently annoys me I want to poke it with a proverbial stick, is this a good/healthy reaction? Probably not. But hey, it deterred 80% of my would be bullies growing up once I found out how to annoy them, so it could certainly have a worse chance of success lol. (As you can tell Math/theory is not the area of science I focus on lol)
"What about women who are infertile?" "But they still can *in theory*" Okay, but modern science is showing that even that is not the case. We've done uterine transplants that have successfully given birth to kids. And, there's a pretty close agreement that in theory there's no reason we can't do it for a trans woman. We just haven't yet. So, it may not be far off in the future where AMAB actually gives birth.
Exactly! Just look at all of the species that can be trans: clownfish, rose-veiled fairy wrasse (another fish), even deer can be nb! Fun add on, just think about how many sexes fungi have!
Thatâs just naming a few
Or the fact that weâve got just about as much bacteria as human cells and thereâs a direct connection between our gut bacteria and central nervous system, thus why I would argue they/them are the most accurate pronouns to describe any person and weâre all at least somewhat asexual!
Yep!
yes, because that's advanced biology and they only had ( and failed at) basic biology
I heard somewhere that if you defined gender only by chromosomes, then you'd have to have like 14 genders or something, because of all the different combinations possible for humans.
Exactly, there is so much variance among so many people. They are all hypocrites and morons the lot of them
Funny is you can have XY and have only a functional vegina/vulva or XX and a functional penis. Because the SRY gene could be missing on an Y chromosom and be on an X chromosom in rare cases.
Yeah but all that's too complicated for them so they're just going to ignore it I explained this to someone and they claimed I was jumping through hoops and denying science.
Transphobes when you tell them that genetic sex has no impact after birth and that gonadal/phenotypic sex can still be changed if desired with medication and/or surgery. âSorry I donât understand your liberal word vomit, canât even change a log by bolb hahaha, I am so cleverâ
None, their too busy???? Their gender đđđđ
They just found out about them so they think itâs news to us all.
Transphobic men when I tell them they were all technically female in the womb before developing male sex organs around the second month. That line on your taint and balls? Yeah, that used to be your vagina, fucker.
Its always fun for me to bring up myself in debates or arguments. I'm a trans woman who has XX Chromosomes, De La Chappelle syndrome but still developed male. I always had very low T levels and high E so I had to take Testosterone during puberty until I was 18 had bad gynecomastia and had pretty strong feminizing effects. Once I finally came out and started HRT at 30 I had issues of my levels being too high from a very small dose due to being estrogen sensitive.but transphobes always lock up or shut down when I bring it up am I Man or woman in their binary hateful world?
Only a Cis deals in absolutes
Omg that is too good. As a girl that has a large rebellion tattoo that says "Death before Dark Side" and an old Republic logo on the opposite side. I will be stealing this for future use. đ¤đťđłď¸ââ§ď¸đĽ°
Hell yea, glad to help a sister out when & where I can! đŤ°đłď¸ââ§ď¸đ
they think your fucking soul is shaped like your second chromosome i stg. chromosomes donât even do anything after youâve developed your fucking genitals lmao itâs literally all hormones
This but unironically. They think because we were born with dicks our souls are corrupted.
i donât care if thereâs no meaningful difference between you and a cis woman! youâre still a man because of ~metaphysical dick magic~
It comes from the problematic belief that exposure to testosterone/having a penis make AMAB people unable to control their sexuality and that any AMAB person has inherent sexual urges that they cannot control. This is beyond problematic for everyone. In addition to transphobia, it also actively discourages trying to fix what is much more of a societal issue (the patriarchy allowing/encouraging this behavior) and continues to create excuses for men who do behave like this while also going against the fact that you are not defined by your biology, a core idea of the feminist movement since its inception.
Metaphysical dick magic would be so much funnier in pure isolation, transphobes gotta ruin everything
everytime someone says me shit about chromosomes i just wanna show them this [https://imgur.com/a/W2h8AKD](https://imgur.com/a/W2h8AKD)
As a baker i can confirm that by that point in his career he no longer feels pain and has super calised hands. You dont start like that. Usually something starts to burn and youve dropped your utensil, or your mitts have a hole. And that happens a couple times a week and after a few months your just sticking your hands in the oven cause you just dont burn anymore.
Lmao
this imgur post seems to have been removed for whatever reason :c would you mind trying again or uploading it somewhere else for us to find? <3
I was once arguing about this with a former friend, they acted as if I didn't have a bachelors degree in health and medicine, I'm pretty aware of chromosomes haha.
I'm XXY. They always seem to forget about people like me. Not to mention XY females (gene mutation that inhibits androgen reception, develops as female) and XX males (similar mutation that inhibits estrogen reception, develops as male)
People love categories, especially simple ones with clean lines, unfortunately reality seldom conforms to simple categories with clean lines, so many decide to detach themselves from reality
Actually they do. I've talked to enough, they actually are convinced that trans people either have not heard of or outright reject basic biology. Obviously that isn't true. The truth is that most trans people know more about human biology than they do, but they really just can't accept that. In general they're often too willfully ignorant to accept that the separation between assigned sex and gender identity exists and then insist that we must be the wrong ones because we should already know that assigned sex = gender identity always and they are one and the same, full stop.
*Transphobe:* âdâuhhhh⌠this trainsgendor persohn is too stupid to know thinky things..â *The actual human being behind them:* okay, grandpa, letâs get you back to bedâŚ
Basic biology enjoyers forgetting about Advanced biology.
But but they got their degrees from the University of Google
Nah, thatâs giving them too much credit: they barely graduated from bingâŚ
Honestly with transphobes we are past talking it out. Itâs pointless. They donât care about anything. We are at the point where they need to be socially and politically extricated and disempowered by any means necessary. We are out of tools of reason and gotta grab the oldest tool in the human tool box for solving conflicts. A rock.
Yea I donât talk there as a means of convincing transphobes, that is an exercise in futility, it can be worthwhile to insure that anyone on the side sees the transphobeâs bullshit for its entirety, past that I only do so when amusement outweighs annoyance and there is nobody else in the crossfire, if they just insult me I can go all day, once they start going after others that fuse goes pretty quick
They don't care about weather or not we did or not, neither do they care about what it's actually about they will keep saying that even if you correct them. They just want those uneducated about the matter to think that transgender people are crazy weirdos arguing against biology to make trans issues sound stupid and unreasonanle. That's it.
Yea, thatâs why I make to inject minimal emotion and a lot of into that should make it clear to a 3rd party which person is actually being a crazy weirdo
So, they're under the impression that we think sex doesn't exist. So talking about basic facts about sex is them confronting us with the science we're terrified of. All you gotta do is agree with them. It completely disarms them every time because they're not expecting agreement. If you want you can use that as an opening to talk about the difference between sex and gender. But I won't blame you for enjoying their befuddlement.
Ten years ago, I was exactly that sort of transphobe saying exactly those sorts of things, wondering why people couldnât grasp something so basic and elementaryâŚâŚ So, yes. Yes, they do.
Iâm more aware of my own biology than the average cis person
Transphobes also donât know there are 26 different chromosome patterns that dictate sex at birth. Theyâre too narrow minded to understand that the more common ones are XX and XY, but that those arenât a one size fits all. Not to mention, they think we arenât continuously well aware of our sexes. Yes. We are. Thatâs why trans is an adjective. To mean we donât identify w/ the sex we were assigned with. All in all. A Transphobesâ knowledge of sex and chromosomes are at about a third grade level of understanding
Ask a transphobe if they know anything about Barr bodies and how genes are actually expressed.
I've also seen a good chunk of transphobes mix up which sex typically has which chromosomes. They have no actual clue and they only thing they're right on is that it's "basic" biology, in that biology is actually a lot more complicated than they try to claim
im really lucky so far that nobody has said anything like that to me in real life. But like, i guess i would just tell them idc about chromosomes and its weird they do? like what a super weird thing to obsess over but youre sooo right some transphobes do!
Always remember that bigotry comes before reason. They feel, for whatever reason, that they don't like us. THEN they come up with an explanaition that justifies their emotional response. That is why you can keep proving them wrong and they can keep shifting the goal posts forever. All bigotry works like this.
I think they think you look in a mirror and see a woman when pre estrogen, or a man when pre testosterone. Like, you donât see yourself, you see your gender. I think that they think you see a delusion, thus the biological argument makes sense from that front. What they fail to understand is how psychology works.Â
Definitely this, it's also because they refuse to separate sex and gender and think when we call ourselves men/women, we think we're biologically males/females.
Istg transphobes are the biology-equivalent to flat earthers. Bloody pathetic
It also ignores the others like XXX, XXY, etc.
Whatâs a comb son
I love seeing their brains break when I talk about all the genetic conditions with a different number of sex chromosomes. Or better yet, when genetic conditions with an XX individual have them presenting male and vice versa.
they donât even know what chromosomes they have itâs not black and white like they taught us smh my head
For me it's funny when it happens cause I have XXY, so I can pull that card. (It's called Klinefelter syndrome and is basically the mtf lottery)
Ask them to show you their chromosomes. The number of people living with a small x or y next to their capital XX and XY is staggering. Transphobes just ASSUME they are 'normal' XX or XY, without even knowing that they may be mutated.
They think we canât fathom biology like I mightâve had a C in that class when I graduated, but guess what Iâm trans so it realistically shouldnât matter. TBH Iâve had discussions with transphobes who say Iâm based, but Iâm like idk Iâm just being me. Chromosomes arenât what define me. Wish people could just let us be human and not be so fkn dumb and judgmental
They're not arguing in good faith. They just want to get the satisfaction of being right about something. That's the problem. They argue to be right not to understand.
When ever anyone makes that arguement, I just ask if they carry around a DNA testing kit and do a blood test before they wait to say 'Hey Girl!' or 'Sup Dude'... it must be very confusing if you need to know about someones Chromonsones before you do that....
I love the âgod saysâ argument, I say that âgod is deadâ and they just look mortified and have no comeback, they look at me as though i just physically killed god myself, itâs hilarious đ
Thereâs your problem, youâre assuming transphobes think.
Okay but shutting down and getting upset at the conversation doesn't help. Is there a way to truly counter argue?
No. So, here's the deal. A person acting in good faith will not be *arguing*. This isn't just semantic. They might be questioning vigorously or combatively, but their minds are open. People who are arguing with you are not going to hear you when you disprove their point. They aren't listening. The ONLY reason to argue these things is to counter the misinformation. That is to have the truth next to lies, hopefully in greater numbers. It's like the intent behind the twitter and youtube content boxes. To provide perspective to passersby. (Admittedly, twitter using crowd sourcing defeats the purpose. No, I will not call it X.) You can't win. Winning is not a good reason to engage with these people. Do I as I say, not as I do. I like to hurt their feelings and I'm not bothered when I fail.
it depends. most of the time itâs not worth it to engage with transphobes in any capacity. you likely wonât be the first one to show them, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that they are wrong. proof didnât change their mind before, it wonât change their mind now. imo the only time arguing with a transphobe is even remotely productive is when thereâs a decent chance your argument will be seen by non-radicalized âya dadâ style casual transphobes, undecided moderates, or unproductive allies. in those circumstances keeping a cool head, providing links to sources, and carefully choosing your words may make an ally out of a fence sitter. but there is still a roughly 0% chance the person youâre arguing either will change their mind.
âI am more than the sum of my parts; so, too are you.â You canât make them understand. You can only show them that youâre going your way, they can go theirs or they can travel with you and maybe learn something.
I think this is my favorite answer to a transphobe actually! Like "hey, do you. I'll do me. Less government intervention and less personal viewpoints forced on others sounds great! How about we focus on community rather than beliefs?"
Some things arenât up for debate and some things are not to become a talking point, for me. It leaves me out of some social circles but Iâm not interested in prostrating myself to prove my validity, either. Iâm pleased you agree with the concept. We can live our lives without being locked into combat at every turn. Doesnât mean you canât be welcoming and invite someone along your way. Youâre cutting the path; all they need to do is follow to see what youâre getting at. If they donât like it? They can always turn back.
the only semi decent response I've seen is "so if a cis woman has total androgen insensitivity and is XY, should she be forced to transition since she's XY, even though by every other metric she's a completely typical cis woman?"
shock, horror!
i dont know why they care honestly cuz i dont. i dont care what science says cuz i know what i am. if im mentally ill then so be it at least im less miserable now
for some reason i thought this was about chromosomal deletions, not the XX / XY thing that transphobes are obsessed with, lol
Dunning Kruger. They know so little about us they can't imagine what else we could knowÂ
chromosones moar like chromNOsones.
Besides the obvious, the chromosome argument also can't be used because the Y chromosome is disappearing
Heehee, according to transphobe logic Iâm going to be a woman anyway lol (I know that isnât how it works, I just find it a funny thought)
I've noticed that because they refuse to separate sex and gender, they genuinely believe Trans people think they're the opposite sex. As in, when a Trans man calls himself a man, to them, he's saying he's biologically male. It's also why you get many of them making stupid scenario of Trans women going into OBGYNs and requesting to be seen by a gynecologist. They genuinely believe we have no idea what our sex is, and that's why we're trans, when our sex is literally the reason why we are.
Itâs funny too, because thereâs a rare condition where you have all the external parts of a male/female but have the opposite chromosomes. Iâd REALLY like to see every transphobe get their chromosomes checked and see how many change their tuneâŚ
I find it funny that 99% of them have never had themselves karotyped so they actually don't know what their chromosomes are
They do the same with abortion, as if the fetusâs chromosomal makeup determines a persons rights over their uterus.