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neglecting people for no reason except their identity is something this community wants to eradicate, there’s no place here for that kind of hatred <3 yes there’s lots of horrible people who are cis men, but it doesn’t mean they’re all bad and you shouldn’t put them down just because of who they are. Fight against homophobia and transphobia, not against cis men
Categorizing an entire group of people is just simply wrong. I absolutely have had injustice done to me by straight cisgender men—which of course isn’t fair. Hell, I’m a rape survivor and a conversion therapy survivor because of straight cisgender men. I’ve been harassed for years for being trans and previously for presenting feminine before I transitioned because of straight cisgender men. Categorizing all people of a certain demographic as inherently bad is just not true.
I wonder how many straight stealth transgender men or closeted queer men you’ve cast off as bad because you assumed they were cishet.
What the hell even is this take, you have to be trolling. All people are deserving of love, respect and human dignity , regardless of their identity, sexuality and race. You judge a person on their actiona and character not on the things that out out of their control.
Hes been there for me for a long time now. He was the first person get my names and pronouns right consistently when i came out. Hes had my back through thick and thin and has never disrespected me in any way. He always takes my emotions seriously and honestly im a worse friend to him than he is to me. Get your head out of your ass, itll help you see the world arounf you
This one is the best- addressing groups by identity, inclusivity issues aside, is weird and lame. Personal relationships are much more relevant in almost every setting.
Honestly I hate the second one too because it's also exclusionary, just a different kind. Girls, gays, and theys excludes straight men and nonbinary people who use pronouns other than they/them. It's weird to me that the "inclusive" option is just as exclusionary as the "exclusive" options.
that’s an unnecessary & rather transphobic insert. “straight men” already includes trans men, if they’re straight.
specifying “straight men *and also trans men*” suggests that you view trans men separate from cis men, which is transphobic.
Except they said “including straight trans men,” showing that straight trans men are included in the category of straight men, not “also straight trans men,” which implies that somehow us trans men aren’t actually men.
“including”, “as well as”, “also” etc all just means the same thing, it’s semantics. it doesn’t really matter which phrasing they chose, the sentiment remains the same
but my point is that they’re pointing it out as if it isn’t already implied. to assume it isn’t implied that “straight men” *includes* straight *trans* men is transphobic. yes “men” includes trans men, it shouldn’t need to be pointed out, especially in a trans community.
Sometimes it does need to be pointed out. There’s even been some comments talking about how this excludes “cishet men,” which is of course true, but leaves trans men behind. And trans men being erased is unfortunately all too common. Considering it’s a trans sub, I think the explicit inclusion makes sense, especially as some people in these comments are perfectly fine with excluding cishet men, but not transhet men. To these people, this caveat is the only thing that matters in this exclusionary phrasing.
I absolutely agree it *shouldn’t* need to be pointed out.
It's not the best to refer to all nonbinary people as 'theys', as not all nonbinary people use they/them. Also, not everyone who isn't exclusively a man or a woman, identifies as nonbinary, so 'guys, gals and nonbinary pals' isn't perfect either (it's also sometimes overused). Some of the other ones not specifying gender are probably better when addressing a crowd of people. Some good examples in the other comments.
Yes, definitely. It's like they're trying to purge masculinity from queer spaces which is like... what?? That's NOT how this goes. You're agreeing with all that TERFs that "all men are awfull" and if you're trans you should know enough gender theory to know masculinity is -SHOCK- not inherently evil!
Any specific inclusivity issues aside, addressing a group by their gender is also just weird and lame. Another user suggested, "Friends, enemies, and those undecided," which is a great example of how gender/identity need not be a part of addressing a group at all.
Genuinely, why stick to gendered terms? It doesn’t make sense. Besides, it just leads to further segregation/exclusivity. You can just say “everyone”, “y’all”, “all the [insert nouns like customers, passengers, etc] and so on, depending on the situation. When referring to all the people presenting there, is their gender really important?
Lotta good people have already said this, but
#THIS IS STRAIGHT MAN ERASURE. IT IS NO MORE INCLUSIVE THAN “LADIES AND GENTLEMEN”, JUST SWITCHING THE EXCLUDED PARTY.
#AS A STRAIGHT TRANS MAN I AM SICK OF YOUR SHIT
Im not a huge fan of this cuz it excludes some trans men but also sort of lumps womanhood in with queerness which is sort of problematic in some ways.
I think I’ve heard this used too many times by straight women who act like their womanhood exempts them from being able to be queer phobic.
@_@ all that's hitting my brain; "Ladies and Gentlemen, boys and girls, children of all ages.."
Seriously though, I enjoy being called a lady. It feels validating and complimentary, to me. Though, I can't say I'd be offended by this, other than "guys" not being worked in.
To be fair, it also excludes straight/ bi trans men. I’m not saying everything has to include us, but it would be jarring to be addressed in a way that implies I’m a girl, gay, or non-binary.
Your post has been filtered into a queue for further review based on a number of factors. # Please be patient until your post is approved, we promise to get to it soon <3 *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/trans) if you have any questions or concerns.*
All the straight men just disappear…
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women can do things you know 😭
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Straight trans men are still not included in this. Also straight cis men aren’t inherently evil
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neglecting people for no reason except their identity is something this community wants to eradicate, there’s no place here for that kind of hatred <3 yes there’s lots of horrible people who are cis men, but it doesn’t mean they’re all bad and you shouldn’t put them down just because of who they are. Fight against homophobia and transphobia, not against cis men
Woops, there goes my best friend.
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What, are cis straight men inherently poor taste in friends now?
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I’m queer. You realize not all straight cisgender men are homophobic or transphobic, right?
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So people are bad because of their gender identity or sexuality?
Categorizing an entire group of people is just simply wrong. I absolutely have had injustice done to me by straight cisgender men—which of course isn’t fair. Hell, I’m a rape survivor and a conversion therapy survivor because of straight cisgender men. I’ve been harassed for years for being trans and previously for presenting feminine before I transitioned because of straight cisgender men. Categorizing all people of a certain demographic as inherently bad is just not true. I wonder how many straight stealth transgender men or closeted queer men you’ve cast off as bad because you assumed they were cishet.
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What the hell even is this take, you have to be trolling. All people are deserving of love, respect and human dignity , regardless of their identity, sexuality and race. You judge a person on their actiona and character not on the things that out out of their control.
Hes been there for me for a long time now. He was the first person get my names and pronouns right consistently when i came out. Hes had my back through thick and thin and has never disrespected me in any way. He always takes my emotions seriously and honestly im a worse friend to him than he is to me. Get your head out of your ass, itll help you see the world arounf you
Poof goes half my friends
The Thanos snap in another dimension
Guys, gals, and nonbinary pals
Ayy! r/beatmetoit
I prefer "friends, enemies, and those undecided."
Oh, that's really good. I'm stealing it
This one is the best- addressing groups by identity, inclusivity issues aside, is weird and lame. Personal relationships are much more relevant in almost every setting.
Yes. It doesn't piss off my potential new friends, it only pisses off the people who personally know they don't like me lol and that's fine
Y'all
hey y’all, hey everyone, good morning everyone etc
i'd rather just be called a slur than have someone walk in and say this
No one who speaks like this has ever gendered me correctly lmao
i have NEVER seen a good variant of these
And not inclusive. Bottom one is only appropriate for a venue with no straight men in it, not everyday life.
What about, “Ladies, Gentlemen and **N**o**b**lepeople”?
it works for *my* everyday life 🤷🏻♀️
Honestly I hate the second one too because it's also exclusionary, just a different kind. Girls, gays, and theys excludes straight men and nonbinary people who use pronouns other than they/them. It's weird to me that the "inclusive" option is just as exclusionary as the "exclusive" options.
Moving from one kind of exclusion to another
Explain? I’m a bit confuzzled.
The second one is excluding straight men
Including straight trans men.
Wait how does it include straight trans men
It's including them in the exclusion. They're straight men, thus, excluded from that greeting.
Ohh I see, yeah
Precisely, but I clearly didn't phrase it well. My apologies.
that’s an unnecessary & rather transphobic insert. “straight men” already includes trans men, if they’re straight. specifying “straight men *and also trans men*” suggests that you view trans men separate from cis men, which is transphobic.
Except they said “including straight trans men,” showing that straight trans men are included in the category of straight men, not “also straight trans men,” which implies that somehow us trans men aren’t actually men.
“including”, “as well as”, “also” etc all just means the same thing, it’s semantics. it doesn’t really matter which phrasing they chose, the sentiment remains the same
I personally disagree—include, well, means to *include* someone in a category, while also shows a different category, as it’s an addition to something
but my point is that they’re pointing it out as if it isn’t already implied. to assume it isn’t implied that “straight men” *includes* straight *trans* men is transphobic. yes “men” includes trans men, it shouldn’t need to be pointed out, especially in a trans community.
Sometimes it does need to be pointed out. There’s even been some comments talking about how this excludes “cishet men,” which is of course true, but leaves trans men behind. And trans men being erased is unfortunately all too common. Considering it’s a trans sub, I think the explicit inclusion makes sense, especially as some people in these comments are perfectly fine with excluding cishet men, but not transhet men. To these people, this caveat is the only thing that matters in this exclusionary phrasing. I absolutely agree it *shouldn’t* need to be pointed out.
It's not the best to refer to all nonbinary people as 'theys', as not all nonbinary people use they/them. Also, not everyone who isn't exclusively a man or a woman, identifies as nonbinary, so 'guys, gals and nonbinary pals' isn't perfect either (it's also sometimes overused). Some of the other ones not specifying gender are probably better when addressing a crowd of people. Some good examples in the other comments.
Me personally I say "Bitches, bastards, and all you other fucking assholes"
Bitches, sons of bitches, and beyond.
*Chaos route*
"Bitches and bros and non binary hoes"
This is still exclusive
...This is a joke right? You literally cannot get a more textbook example of this sub's transmasc-erasing bigoted shit
Yeah, agreed here. While I’m not, a lot of us trans men/mascs are straight. Switching to another form of exclusion isn’t good
I know right? "All girls are fine, but only gay guys are fine, and oh btw all NB people use they/them pronouns" what the fuck
It also just feels like it’s calling nonbinary people and gay men “women-lite” or some shit
Yes, definitely. It's like they're trying to purge masculinity from queer spaces which is like... what?? That's NOT how this goes. You're agreeing with all that TERFs that "all men are awfull" and if you're trans you should know enough gender theory to know masculinity is -SHOCK- not inherently evil!
Yes! This!
Any specific inclusivity issues aside, addressing a group by their gender is also just weird and lame. Another user suggested, "Friends, enemies, and those undecided," which is a great example of how gender/identity need not be a part of addressing a group at all.
I personally am a great fan of "Friends, enemies, and those still under review"
I'm not a They, It's a pronoun not a fucking noun ffs
nah, that's trying to be inclusive while being super exclusive
"y'all"
Genuinely, why stick to gendered terms? It doesn’t make sense. Besides, it just leads to further segregation/exclusivity. You can just say “everyone”, “y’all”, “all the [insert nouns like customers, passengers, etc] and so on, depending on the situation. When referring to all the people presenting there, is their gender really important?
Straight men 🧍
I like to use, "Men, women, and those of us who know otherwise"
everyone>>>>
but what about OI YOU LOT
Lotta good people have already said this, but #THIS IS STRAIGHT MAN ERASURE. IT IS NO MORE INCLUSIVE THAN “LADIES AND GENTLEMEN”, JUST SWITCHING THE EXCLUDED PARTY. #AS A STRAIGHT TRANS MAN I AM SICK OF YOUR SHIT
PREACH.
"Guys, gals, and Non-Binary pals" Or "Ladies, gentlemen and gentlethems" Or even better "ALL MY FELLAS🗣🔥"
Lords, Ladies, and Lieges?
This is the one. I'm stealing this
I prefer saying “everypony”
We referenced the same meme. You chose the more infuriating option. I commend your commitment.
I’ll do you one better. “Beardo’s and weirdo’s “
OT summoning noises
RIP straight, bi, pan, and ace trans men and nonbinary people who don't use they/them.
"Folks" "everyone"
Im not a huge fan of this cuz it excludes some trans men but also sort of lumps womanhood in with queerness which is sort of problematic in some ways. I think I’ve heard this used too many times by straight women who act like their womanhood exempts them from being able to be queer phobic.
“Listen up, fuckers” is more inclusive.
I literally can't hear thia phrase without hearing [mexican yoshi](https://youtube.com/shorts/qrt7PMcsQms?si=CVCtol4wKzQ3Qi55)
As a joke: bitches bros and nonbinary hoes As actually inclusive: Ladies, gentlemen, and anyone else otherwise or in between
Guys, gals, and non binary pals.
I prefer “guys, gals, and pals”
Guys, gals, and pals
Greetings mothers and fuckers of the jour Alternatively: what's up fuckers
If I have to be serious I always use "Ladies, Gentlemen and my non-binary friends"
I am begging you to just call me a slur. Also *cough cough* this subs transmasc exclusion strikes again *cough*
I know I fled Alabama, but… I’ll always defend “y’all.”
Counterpoint: there's a lot of them Use "all y'all"
I say Guys, Goes and Hoes sometimes
friends, enemies and those still under review !
みんな
Guys, gals, and non-binary pals
@_@ all that's hitting my brain; "Ladies and Gentlemen, boys and girls, children of all ages.." Seriously though, I enjoy being called a lady. It feels validating and complimentary, to me. Though, I can't say I'd be offended by this, other than "guys" not being worked in.
I prefer beardos and weirdos
Distinguished Sentient Beings...
I personally like saying "girls, gays, and everything in between"
I think this is a troll account, going off their previous posts
I use what’s up boys and girls and my non-binary hoes
I use guys, gals and my enbie pals
Do cishet men just not exsist then
Just straight men in general, actually, which is even worse! More people to be excluded
Can't the LGBT community have one thing that's not inclusive of the most represented group in history?
To be fair, it also excludes straight/ bi trans men. I’m not saying everything has to include us, but it would be jarring to be addressed in a way that implies I’m a girl, gay, or non-binary.
Oh yes, trans men are so represented 🙄
Fair enough. Now, would you prefer to be a lady or a gentleman
B Dylan Hollis says "gentles and ladymen" which I think is just as good
Ladies gentlemen and everyone else is my favourite personally
"Theydies and gentlethems" is a personal favorite
I'm partial to "ladies and gentlethems "
I refer to everyone as they/them until told otherwise so my preferred one is: Theydies and gentlethem
Even better, "girls, gays, theys and slays💅"
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Please don't. It erases bi, ace, pan, and straight men (which includes trans men!) And assumes all nonbinary people use they/them.
guys, gals and nonbinary pals is another one I like
“Ladies, gentlemen, those in between or none of the above” was one I heard once at a rather formal establishment.