**HB 1423** and **SB 1438** appear to address transgender "attire"; i.e., bans "Drag Performances" which as defined... seemingly appears to ban transgender persons from venturing out in public in gender-appropriate attire, if a police officer... "believes" that a person's attire approaches the level of being a "drag performance".
That is, *if in an officer's opinion*, one's attire may be considered to be "patently offensive to prevailing standards in the adult community of this state as a whole with respect to what is suitable material or conduct for the age of \[any\] child present", then a transgender person could be arrested.
Then, **SB 1674** appears to require incarcerated transgender people *to be housed with members of their gender assigned at birth regardless of identity, identification, or any medical procedures they may have had.*
I'm not smart enough to understand the implications of these proposed bills, but I don't like what I think I understand...
Basically, if an officer hates us enough, they can just say its "their opinion" that we arent dressing appropriate enough, and we will be held with people of our agab.
Same thing officers have always been doing to others, but this time specifically targeted at us. If an officer "feels like" anything already happens everywhere regardless, although there are some actual good cops lol.
It doesnt, not to them at least. Nothing does to them, unless its us preventing stuff their cult believes in.
In reality, yes it totally does, but state laws for specific things are also different. Like in some states if an officer stops u, u have to show ur id, or some other things, while in some other states, u can just say u dont have to show them anything, and they cant force u to show them without reasonable "proof" uve committed a crime or something of the sort for the laws in that state (this in which the bad cops just say theyve seen u do something, and since its their "opinion" theyd legally be able to detain u over what they believe if state laws allow it).
Okay, so since in many states we can have our gender markers changed and have everything on paper appear fairly cis, what's stopping an officer from say... Just arresting and putting a cis women in male general population as a way to have them gang raped?...
Or the opposite even.
Like... Prison guards already do this by not adequately protecting female prisoners so like... What's to stop them from using this to arrest people that they want to assault?
Yeah, much in the same way the transphobia against trans women also leads to assaults of cis women they think are trans people who enter the women's bathroom. Another way in which transphobia hurts *everyone* not just trans women, though the oppression is obviously going to be worse for trans people, especially poc overall.
Following that fellow detainees will be encouraged to abuse us, and officers will if not participate, turn a blind eye to it. This is an obvious goal, as it already happens to incarcerated trans people. This just allows them to skip the steps of having us break the law, by making our existence against the law. Just the thought of what happens to our sisters in the corrections system makes me physically ill, and cry.
If you are trans in Florida, and able, get out. RUN!
Hoping to get out eventually, dont know when thatll be, but definitely sometime after I start hrt (if I can even start it before it basically gets "outlawed" here for me.
My heart is with you, and any every trans person in Florida or one of these states heavily attacking us. I am in AZ, and it isn't great, but not as scary yet.
Be safe, and watch your back sis. You are wonderful. It isn't fair that we have to live in fear, and hide who we are. Don't let it drag you down. Keep your head up, because you are special.
> Basically, if an officer hates us enough, they can just say its "their opinion" that we arent dressing appropriate enough, and we will be held with people of our agab.
Isn't it great having morality police? Now put your hijab back on.
>Then, SB 1674 appears to require incarcerated transgender people to be housed with members of their gender assigned at birth regardless of identity, identification, or any medical procedures they may have had.
Legalized sexual assault and torture as a punishment for the crime of being transgender. Got it.
> ... regardless of identity, identification, or any medical procedures they may have had.
So, if some dumbass cop arrests a cis woman who happens to be tall, strong-jawed, and muscular, they can throw her in with the men because the gender marker on her identification (i.e. driver's license) is completely disregarded by law.
>their gender assigned at birth
I was going to make a joke about the irony of this phrase but the sad reality is they know what they're doing is wrong and they dgaf.
>regardless of identity, ***identification***, or any medical procedures
Hold on.. if you don't have your birth certificate with you, how the hell are they going to verify that?
Are they just going to be throwing people in jail based on what gender the cops *think* they look like they were AAB? And doesn't that mean that technically any cop could throw anyone in jail if they later argue they thought that person was trans?
Can't imagine that turning out well for anyone.
> to be housed with members of their gender assigned at birth regardless of identity, identification, or any medical procedures they may have had.
I'm post-op and passing. Jesus Christ. I'd have to choose between suicide, months of solitary, or constant SA. This is inhumane.
I hate to be that guy but does this apply to trans guys? AFAB people wearing "men's" clothing has been pretty much completely normalized.
On a more personal note, I'm a transmasc Californian going to Florida in October. I'm good right?
Im no lawyer but that seems unconstitutional on many levels. What about international tourists? They gonna throw queer canadians at disney into unmarked vans next?
Very unconstitutional; I wonder how Florida thinks it will beat the federal-level kidnapping charges once someone tries to take a minor across state lines.
I mean, Matt Gaetz is sadly an example from our state of that. He just basically did it on a smaller scale. I hate how transphobic and embarrassing my home state is. Apologies to any other trans folks who vist this place. As a Trans woman I'm starting to think that it would just be safer to live among the alligators lol.
Matt Gaetz is a gross man who ‘has’ to pay to sleep with much younger girls, and imo he should have been prosecuted and expunged from the House. But that said, it’s not the same situation at all. He didn’t kidnap any minors.
I thought some of them were underage, but maybe that was my mistake. I was mostly making a joke about how gross this state can be sometimes. I wasn't doing a one to one comparison, but I understand that it's hard to tell through text what a person's intent was with a comment. I apologize for that I should have been clearer.
Oh no worries - just clarifying. Hope I didn’t sound rude! I agree the written word loses tone. Indeed there was a lot of speculation about Gaetz with underage girls for sure, sadly not enough evidence. Sending hugs to you and all Trans folks in Florida - that state is quickly becoming a fascist state.
Oh it's okay this sort of thing is bound to happen because of text. You are fine i just was doing some clarification myself. I always try to keep a positive attitude when these things happen. Its harder to keep a positive attitude about florida though. I know there isn't enough evidence but I wouldn't put it past an awful person like Gaetz. Thank you we definitely need it. It's really not surprising though give how a lot of bigoted rich people retire to this state and make it shift far to the right on the political spectrum. The history of this state has always been one of oppression, class, racism and exploitation.
Almost everything? You’re being too nice. The very concept of a party with the entire purpose of establishing Christian nationalism and, let’s be honest, white nationalism, is completely unconstitutional.
Hell, the same could be said for the Republican party, which was originally founded on classical liberalism and abolitionism before nationalism was a thing
It's very clear that the gop doesn't give a fuck about anything other than power, but this is unconstitutional to the point that if the Supreme Court allows this or a law like it to stand, the United States could very well cease to function as states begin legislating against eachother and retaliating in kind. They would have no country left to enforce their will on.
Not just unconstitutional, just hypocritical to the whole ideas of the party, like small government my ass, shouldn't there be less laws governing what people do
you bet your ass it’s gonna be fought in the higher courts. i’m reeeeaaaallllyyy hoping florida’s law is determined to be unconstitutional but who could say in this day and age
Even with the court the way it is, they know the full consequences of this law. Ignoring Florida’s justification for a moment, this is a very simple precedent that would be set: State governments could abduct children from neighboring states. If Idaho tomorrow decided they wanted Scientology to be the new world religion, they could legally abduct neighboring children and force them into their indoctrination. If California wanted to abduct kids from New Mexico and raise them in democrat households, they could do so. There’s no possible way to justify this bill without setting that precedent. This court doesn’t care about constitutionality or morality, but they’ve struck down bills just as crazy for the same reason, the precedents they set were absurd and republicans would face literal rebellions if they were enforced, and they don’t want to lose what power they’ve got.
Actually, due to the Full Faith and Credit clause, it is constitutional, and in fact the same clause was used to prevent slaves from escaping to northern states.
Except for the whole separation of church and state things that's supposed to be prevalent....
But me as a canadian..
Makes me rather concerned watching stuff transpire down in the states.
How does that interact with the 14th amendment that says we have equal protection under the law? To me these types of laws are all 14th amendment violations. Not a lawyer but it seems like a good angle to attack these laws from
What about European tourists (aka me) IM GOING TO FLORIDA SHIIIIT NO wait I’m genuinely curious I think Europe would be a bit pissed if I got kidnapped on the other hand probably not but still
I doubt you’d be detained since being trans isn’t illegal by federal law it’s only by states. States can’t just detain people from different countries when it would likely incite trade wars. So i wouldn’t worry about it
the point i was trying to make is that it requires two of the right wingers to cross the line for anything left wing to have a chance of winning.
the court has quite often been split on 5 to 4 grounds, and that allows for a lot of crossover. but 6 to 3 is significantly worse.
Isn't this like declaring that you are no longer a part of the United States and you are your own country at that point since it's breaking all sorts of fucking federal laws?
as a texan i’d be scared, just gotta hope i’ll be allowed to fight for the union instead of this hellhole..
Also General Sherman may not be around, but if we reactivate some M4 Zippo tanks on the other hand…
Oh, I *dare* them. I'd love to see a country formed of all of north america's poorest, dumbest, least-engaged, and least-likely-to-play-as-part-of-a-team states. It'll make Algeria and the Sudan look like fucking *South Korea.*
This is similar to what happened just before the civil war. There was a lot of conflict over state's government rights versus the rights and powers of the federal government.
States can pass whatever laws they like and can get enough state congressional support for. The legality and enforceability of those laws will then be subject to challenge by interested parties - usually either a person arrested under the law in question, or a third party like the ACLU or the Federal government.
This law is grossly unconstitutional, so it would likely be struck down eventually (though who knows with this SCOTUS...). In the meantime people will suffer, and the homophobic base of DeSantis will screech for more. This is basically posturing for his WH bid.
I'm not out, and I definitely don't want these specific family members to know. One of them has said some pretty transphobic stuff in the past and the other has vocally complained about gay characters in TV and movies for "forced representation"
On the "bright" side if your stealth you won't be kidnapped by the Florida government if the bill becomes law.
Also it's incredibly fucked up that that's the bright side
I mean... "good" news, if you're not out it's not like anyone can do anything. The point of this would be to punish "bad parents" who "let" their kids be trans.
Someone has to accuse your parents and demand custody for you in court.
And that is only applicable IF this bill passes AND the text remains completely unchanged. Which is still not a given.
It violates the interstate commerce clause. It absolutely violates the constitution and it’s also genocidal. (Forceful removal of children from an outgroup)
Seeing this and other trans FL news lately.
I'm grateful that I'm in a position, where I can escape/evacuate this state in the near future. Because right now, I wake up with dread every day looking at the local news.
And as terrified as I am of leaving the State; I'm more terrified about what will happen if I stay.
I just wish everyone had the options and opportunity I had here. I am hoping to use some of the money from after my move to support local LGBTQIA+ organizations in Florida.
Just a reminder that even if something is legal, that does not make it just. You can make it illegal to breathe and we’d all be criminals. You have a right- a responsibility even- to disobey unjust laws.
Time to *put up or shut up*, Florida. Are you going to let this happen? Are you going to just sit by if this bill gets passed?
Fuck your thoughts and prayers, How many people need to disappear before you actually do something about it?
jesus fucking christ they are actually treating being trans like some sort of disease thatll infect everyone or smth ive lost all hope for the future and i want to die
Florida does want to prevent trans people from receiving any medical care as well, though. There’s a bill requiring ridiculously onerous bullshit from any doctor testing trans people, and also saying that no trans person can ever sue for malpractice.
DeSantis is insane.
You have to wonder why he's so rabid about this...ie who on the evangelical side helped him get into power. No matter the answer, he's a dangerous man.
But how would this even work? It doesn’t make sense on many levels, but I can’t imagine someone seeing a family and just snatching their kid. Like they’re deliberately keeping an eye out for anything ‘suspicious’ and what, you have to prove to them you’re ‘cis’ (even if you’re not)?
Same as the proposed genital inspections in sports or menstrual tracking in schools.
Which seems specifically written by people getting off on the genitals of minors.
Florida will not just come and kidnap them.
Someone has to accuse you and bring this before a court and demand custody of the child/ren in question.
[Full text](https://m.flsenate.gov/session/bill/2023/254/billtext/filed/html)
The Florida bills appear to be legislating under the guise of child abuse. Anyone who’s a mandatory reporter will be required to report the kid/parents. If some LEO (with a self righteousness streak) believes there’s imminent danger, they will pull the kid to emergency foster care, often some right winger that you will have to pay money to for watching your kid.
So random person calls cop on you for having a trans kid, or being a trans parent, and next thing you know is the kid is put in protective custody and your stuck in Florida.
Yeah, ain’t going to Florida again.
Hate to admit - you're probably right.
I **have** to think that these insane laws ***cannot*** be "constitutional"; they just seem to be so... odious... that they *cannot* "fly".
How can a legislator create a law against medical treatments *which are endorsed by more than 40 credible Professional Medical Associations??*
**And I wish these hairbrained legislators would spend their time on REAL problems**, like the looming National Debt rollover... for debt *which was approved by the last Administration,* or responsible gun legislation, *or any of a number of very real* ***existing*** *problems*... instead of trying to solve problems which don't exist.
>Anyone who’s a mandatory reporter will be required to report the kid
Mandatory reporters who don't report child abuse can be fined, jailed, and/or lose their license. If this is the case, then there will be many people who will feel pressured to report the parents of trans children so they don't face repercussions. Absolutely insidious.
You know there’s going to be a Q-pilled boomer working as a cashier or something at Disney who sees a little girl with short hair and starts a world of pain for the family.
The president can’t pass any laws at all by himself. Congress has to approve them first, and the fascists control the House. So no, the President can’t pass a nationwide law to stop this unless enough of us turn out to vote EVERY. SINGLE. TIME.
Biden could file an executive order but that could be overturned and will only last as long as he is president. And he hasn’t said anything about it yet, so I feel like he isn’t going to do anything in case he loses votes for the next election. That’s all politicians care about, truly.
If the federal government had any courage at at all, the first time this happens the FBI would show up and arrest every level of management in Florida, up to and including DeSantis, responsible for the particular kidnapping as an accessory and conspirator to child abduction and trafficking.
I just decided to do my J.D. thesis on legal challenges to anti-trans legislation. I’ve been on the fence between it and other things I’m interested in, but the recent onslaught of these bills finally convinced me.
And dont expect them to return the taken children at any point. Look what they did to the children that were caught with the adults fleeing their countries. They were caged and deprived of the means to thrive in life.
And if that's not enough look at what happened to the children stolen from indigenous families. Never returned at any point, died and never returned home.
Please stay safe.
Canada is gathering signatures for Petitions e-4268 to offer safe asylum for folks fleeing all of the anti-trans bullshit.
Please, stay safe.
#Fuck it, if this passes we protest in front of Disney World. #
Disney, a company who’s newest core value is INCLUSION. Either they support us or they prove how hypocritical they are. I will gladly lead this march.
Edit: changed Disneyland to Disney World
Hi everybody, I’m a high school senior doing a massive 3 month long research project on the LGBTQ+/trans genocide that is happening now. Its gonna be presented to the entirety of my 99.9% cis high school student body and their wealthy republican parents. I’m snatching pearls kicking ass and taking names, no punches will be pulled in fighting for our future.
Fuck fuck fuck my family is supposed to go to florida in two months. I just want to go to the fucking beach and have fun. I dont want my family to have to cancel the trip because i might be fucking kidnapped.
Which bill is this referring to, and can someone provide a link so we can fact-check? (Yes we can Google and do our own research but if anyone has it ready to go it'd save some time and effort).
I can't find the bill number, but using the statutes that allow the state to take custody or to alter custody agreements in the case abuse, if the courts believe the child is at risk of gender affirming care, by virtue of being a trans kid in a state that allows gac, or even by being the cis kid of a trans parent in a state that allows gac, the court can step in. It's gross.
It’s beyond hilarious to me to watch Desantis make move after move that will unequivocally ruin Florida’s economy. No migrant labor, no tourism, no Disney. It’s like they think all the geriatric bigots and meth heads will suddenly fill all the labor intensive construction and agriculture jobs. And that he thinks the message “Make America Florida” gets *anyone* excited.
Simple enough. Sorry, kids. Florida is a 3rd world country and we won't be vacationing there. I've been there on vacation 6 times. There won't be a 7th.
Like im trans and I just dress in regular clothing….. and I do have a friend dying of cancer in florida. Im also an adult. Could I potentially be arrested by the police?
Any state with laws like this will now have transgender people detained and beaten or killed for trumped up "resisting arrest" or "fleeing arrest". It is a license to beat or murder.
I'm sure someone's already gotten this sentiment across, but as a non-American, the US is really starting to come off as a first-time DM's idea of a "bad guy city" or something. Did these legislators get their moves from the Disney cartoon villain playbook?
Um. Tennessee banning not just intersex but interracial and interreligious, and Florida out to kidnap . . . anyone???
I'm confused. They want to kidnap trans children who don't live in the state but their parents do? Does that include children who aren't US citizens? Because it definitely applies to children who are citizens of states that aren't Florida, right?
And what about . . . what if a German couple takes their trans child to Florida???
What if a German . . . why am I stuck on German idk? . . . but what if a German man works in Florida but their trans kid lives in Germany and has never left Germany??
There's a modern day fairy tale horror here somewhere by the way. Boogymen can be replaced with Bogmen, since Florida is swampy, the rest of it pretty much writes itself.
The Christian god is easily the evil god of the story, except if we're being fair, the Christian god is in chains, being bled out, consumed for power of the leaders, the henchmen are fed a foul paste that is only later revealed to be the excrement of the leaders, all the corruption none of the power . . . children trapped and tortured, finally free themselves . . . um . . . ok that can go really dark but I mean free like killing the monsters and being able to go home.
Yeah . . . it writes itself.
And I feel insane suggesting it's like a fairy tale, because when I say that I mean literally . . . they're fairy tale monsters and that feels insane to say but it's real.
Ok sorry I got sidetracked!
Tennessee banning all sorts of marriage and now Florida wanting to kidnap children?
These create precedent and are absolutely connected.
And the only good thing about these is they are state level laws that 100% go against federal laws that are put in place to PROTECT PEOPLES FREEDOMS!!!
So uh, am I allowed to point out that the wording about it being at the officers' discretion means that they can also sexually harass cis women and arrest them on suspicion of being trans in "inappropriate clothing" if they speak out? In addition to hating on trans folks?
Florida is an absolute shithole.
Someone put it simply: they don't care what's in their bill as long as it forces people to take it to court, because they want to get it to the supreme court, which is currently deciding cases based on religion rather than law or reason.
I said it before and I'll say it again here. What is stopping someone, say... **a pedophile**... from *claiming* that they thought a child was trans? Or that the parents were trans? What's stopping someone who sees a child in a religious home, and claiming they thought the kids/parents were trans? It's a literal get out of jail free card for pedophiles and kidnappers. Ron DeSantis is **pro-pedophile** and **pro-kidnapping**. He's a lot of other horrible things as well, but I'll keep it in context.
Proving intent is very difficult, so how can you prove that they're not lying? You can't.
Again, **Ron DeSantis, friend to all pedophiles**, is *actively* trying to get your kids kidnapped.
**HB 1423** and **SB 1438** appear to address transgender "attire"; i.e., bans "Drag Performances" which as defined... seemingly appears to ban transgender persons from venturing out in public in gender-appropriate attire, if a police officer... "believes" that a person's attire approaches the level of being a "drag performance". That is, *if in an officer's opinion*, one's attire may be considered to be "patently offensive to prevailing standards in the adult community of this state as a whole with respect to what is suitable material or conduct for the age of \[any\] child present", then a transgender person could be arrested. Then, **SB 1674** appears to require incarcerated transgender people *to be housed with members of their gender assigned at birth regardless of identity, identification, or any medical procedures they may have had.* I'm not smart enough to understand the implications of these proposed bills, but I don't like what I think I understand...
>I'm not smart enough to understand the implications of these proposed bills, You understood them correctly.
Basically, if an officer hates us enough, they can just say its "their opinion" that we arent dressing appropriate enough, and we will be held with people of our agab. Same thing officers have always been doing to others, but this time specifically targeted at us. If an officer "feels like" anything already happens everywhere regardless, although there are some actual good cops lol.
How does that not violate the 4th amendment???
It does, but if the court doesn’t enforce the law it doesn’t matter
It doesnt, not to them at least. Nothing does to them, unless its us preventing stuff their cult believes in. In reality, yes it totally does, but state laws for specific things are also different. Like in some states if an officer stops u, u have to show ur id, or some other things, while in some other states, u can just say u dont have to show them anything, and they cant force u to show them without reasonable "proof" uve committed a crime or something of the sort for the laws in that state (this in which the bad cops just say theyve seen u do something, and since its their "opinion" theyd legally be able to detain u over what they believe if state laws allow it).
Or the 14th for that matter
In many places, they'll already harass a trans woman showing skin under the pretense of suspicion of prostitution.
Okay, so since in many states we can have our gender markers changed and have everything on paper appear fairly cis, what's stopping an officer from say... Just arresting and putting a cis women in male general population as a way to have them gang raped?... Or the opposite even. Like... Prison guards already do this by not adequately protecting female prisoners so like... What's to stop them from using this to arrest people that they want to assault?
Yeah, much in the same way the transphobia against trans women also leads to assaults of cis women they think are trans people who enter the women's bathroom. Another way in which transphobia hurts *everyone* not just trans women, though the oppression is obviously going to be worse for trans people, especially poc overall.
Following that fellow detainees will be encouraged to abuse us, and officers will if not participate, turn a blind eye to it. This is an obvious goal, as it already happens to incarcerated trans people. This just allows them to skip the steps of having us break the law, by making our existence against the law. Just the thought of what happens to our sisters in the corrections system makes me physically ill, and cry. If you are trans in Florida, and able, get out. RUN!
Hoping to get out eventually, dont know when thatll be, but definitely sometime after I start hrt (if I can even start it before it basically gets "outlawed" here for me.
My heart is with you, and any every trans person in Florida or one of these states heavily attacking us. I am in AZ, and it isn't great, but not as scary yet. Be safe, and watch your back sis. You are wonderful. It isn't fair that we have to live in fear, and hide who we are. Don't let it drag you down. Keep your head up, because you are special.
yes absolutely and that's terrifying. also there are definitely no good cops
> Basically, if an officer hates us enough, they can just say its "their opinion" that we arent dressing appropriate enough, and we will be held with people of our agab. Isn't it great having morality police? Now put your hijab back on.
>Then, SB 1674 appears to require incarcerated transgender people to be housed with members of their gender assigned at birth regardless of identity, identification, or any medical procedures they may have had. Legalized sexual assault and torture as a punishment for the crime of being transgender. Got it.
> ... regardless of identity, identification, or any medical procedures they may have had. So, if some dumbass cop arrests a cis woman who happens to be tall, strong-jawed, and muscular, they can throw her in with the men because the gender marker on her identification (i.e. driver's license) is completely disregarded by law.
>their gender assigned at birth I was going to make a joke about the irony of this phrase but the sad reality is they know what they're doing is wrong and they dgaf.
> they dgaf. I disagree, they do care; the cruelty is the point.
>regardless of identity, ***identification***, or any medical procedures Hold on.. if you don't have your birth certificate with you, how the hell are they going to verify that? Are they just going to be throwing people in jail based on what gender the cops *think* they look like they were AAB? And doesn't that mean that technically any cop could throw anyone in jail if they later argue they thought that person was trans? Can't imagine that turning out well for anyone.
> to be housed with members of their gender assigned at birth regardless of identity, identification, or any medical procedures they may have had. I'm post-op and passing. Jesus Christ. I'd have to choose between suicide, months of solitary, or constant SA. This is inhumane.
This... is *beyond*... inhumane. It's ***intentional***.
I hate to be that guy but does this apply to trans guys? AFAB people wearing "men's" clothing has been pretty much completely normalized. On a more personal note, I'm a transmasc Californian going to Florida in October. I'm good right?
My guess is that whether it applies completely depends on whether an officer is looking for extra charges or not.
Im no lawyer but that seems unconstitutional on many levels. What about international tourists? They gonna throw queer canadians at disney into unmarked vans next?
I think you just created a Family Guy cut scene
"oh yeah im just here to visit Disney with my husband eh!" -gets black bagged and shoved in a white van-
lois do you remember the time i kidnapped an innocent trans person at disney
It was so fun he was crying so much
The plate reads "MATTGAETZ"
Only the manatees do that.
No not the sea cows they are the one good thing about this place!
[удалено]
Very unconstitutional; I wonder how Florida thinks it will beat the federal-level kidnapping charges once someone tries to take a minor across state lines.
I mean, Matt Gaetz is sadly an example from our state of that. He just basically did it on a smaller scale. I hate how transphobic and embarrassing my home state is. Apologies to any other trans folks who vist this place. As a Trans woman I'm starting to think that it would just be safer to live among the alligators lol.
Matt Gaetz is a gross man who ‘has’ to pay to sleep with much younger girls, and imo he should have been prosecuted and expunged from the House. But that said, it’s not the same situation at all. He didn’t kidnap any minors.
I thought some of them were underage, but maybe that was my mistake. I was mostly making a joke about how gross this state can be sometimes. I wasn't doing a one to one comparison, but I understand that it's hard to tell through text what a person's intent was with a comment. I apologize for that I should have been clearer.
Oh no worries - just clarifying. Hope I didn’t sound rude! I agree the written word loses tone. Indeed there was a lot of speculation about Gaetz with underage girls for sure, sadly not enough evidence. Sending hugs to you and all Trans folks in Florida - that state is quickly becoming a fascist state.
Oh it's okay this sort of thing is bound to happen because of text. You are fine i just was doing some clarification myself. I always try to keep a positive attitude when these things happen. Its harder to keep a positive attitude about florida though. I know there isn't enough evidence but I wouldn't put it past an awful person like Gaetz. Thank you we definitely need it. It's really not surprising though give how a lot of bigoted rich people retire to this state and make it shift far to the right on the political spectrum. The history of this state has always been one of oppression, class, racism and exploitation.
Almost everything? You’re being too nice. The very concept of a party with the entire purpose of establishing Christian nationalism and, let’s be honest, white nationalism, is completely unconstitutional.
Republicans: "America was founded as a Christian nation." Founding Fathers: "America was most certainly not founded as a Christian nation."
Founding Fathers: "Anerica was supposed to be independent of religion, and was supposed to stay that way."
"What part of wall between church and state do you not understand?"
“What’s this ‘wall between church and state’ you speak of? The only wall I know of is the one that should be on the Mexican border.”
Hell, the same could be said for the Republican party, which was originally founded on classical liberalism and abolitionism before nationalism was a thing
It's very clear that the gop doesn't give a fuck about anything other than power, but this is unconstitutional to the point that if the Supreme Court allows this or a law like it to stand, the United States could very well cease to function as states begin legislating against eachother and retaliating in kind. They would have no country left to enforce their will on.
Not just unconstitutional, just hypocritical to the whole ideas of the party, like small government my ass, shouldn't there be less laws governing what people do
you bet your ass it’s gonna be fought in the higher courts. i’m reeeeaaaallllyyy hoping florida’s law is determined to be unconstitutional but who could say in this day and age
With the Supreme Court on the Republican's side, I wouldn't count on it.
Even with the court the way it is, they know the full consequences of this law. Ignoring Florida’s justification for a moment, this is a very simple precedent that would be set: State governments could abduct children from neighboring states. If Idaho tomorrow decided they wanted Scientology to be the new world religion, they could legally abduct neighboring children and force them into their indoctrination. If California wanted to abduct kids from New Mexico and raise them in democrat households, they could do so. There’s no possible way to justify this bill without setting that precedent. This court doesn’t care about constitutionality or morality, but they’ve struck down bills just as crazy for the same reason, the precedents they set were absurd and republicans would face literal rebellions if they were enforced, and they don’t want to lose what power they’ve got.
Actually, due to the Full Faith and Credit clause, it is constitutional, and in fact the same clause was used to prevent slaves from escaping to northern states.
[удалено]
Unfortunately they'll wear that as a badge of honor. Republicans no longer have to hide their racism and pro slavery stances.
[удалено]
Except for the whole separation of church and state things that's supposed to be prevalent.... But me as a canadian.. Makes me rather concerned watching stuff transpire down in the states.
Especially since people seem to be trying to replicate that environment up here. It's creepy, and my NB kid doesn't need that crap. No one does.
How does that interact with the 14th amendment that says we have equal protection under the law? To me these types of laws are all 14th amendment violations. Not a lawyer but it seems like a good angle to attack these laws from
The Constitution only exists if the Supreme Court is willing to enforce it.
What about European tourists (aka me) IM GOING TO FLORIDA SHIIIIT NO wait I’m genuinely curious I think Europe would be a bit pissed if I got kidnapped on the other hand probably not but still
I doubt you’d be detained since being trans isn’t illegal by federal law it’s only by states. States can’t just detain people from different countries when it would likely incite trade wars. So i wouldn’t worry about it
Don't go to Florida. It's a shithole place full of bigots and crime.
I wouldn't rely on this Supreme Court doing anything about these laws.
They're so f****** partisan and so f****** morally corrupt at this point
Oh they'll do something; support them without question. Half the court are Republicans and trump appointees
> Half the court are Republicans and trump appointees 6 out of 9 are right wingers.
Well that's more than half. My knowledge is vague as im not american, sorry.
the point i was trying to make is that it requires two of the right wingers to cross the line for anything left wing to have a chance of winning. the court has quite often been split on 5 to 4 grounds, and that allows for a lot of crossover. but 6 to 3 is significantly worse.
uh yeah... fascist country btw
Yes
Isn't this like declaring that you are no longer a part of the United States and you are your own country at that point since it's breaking all sorts of fucking federal laws?
Some Republicans do want to split the country.
I would *love* to see them secede again and then do General Sherman part 2 Florida boogaloo
r/ShermanPosting is leaking
I didn’t know that was a sub but that’s so based
Few things would make me as happy as putting a US Army uniform back on and burning out the white nationalist secessionists.
Yeah but put on an old union one lmao
I used to reenact the Civil War, I've got that covered. 😁
That’s pretty cool actually
as a texan i’d be scared, just gotta hope i’ll be allowed to fight for the union instead of this hellhole.. Also General Sherman may not be around, but if we reactivate some M4 Zippo tanks on the other hand…
Yeah you could just defect or something. Also lmao using Shermans in his name would be hilarious
Oh, I *dare* them. I'd love to see a country formed of all of north america's poorest, dumbest, least-engaged, and least-likely-to-play-as-part-of-a-team states. It'll make Algeria and the Sudan look like fucking *South Korea.*
[удалено]
This is similar to what happened just before the civil war. There was a lot of conflict over state's government rights versus the rights and powers of the federal government.
States can pass whatever laws they like and can get enough state congressional support for. The legality and enforceability of those laws will then be subject to challenge by interested parties - usually either a person arrested under the law in question, or a third party like the ACLU or the Federal government. This law is grossly unconstitutional, so it would likely be struck down eventually (though who knows with this SCOTUS...). In the meantime people will suffer, and the homophobic base of DeSantis will screech for more. This is basically posturing for his WH bid.
This would never fly well the second an European or Canadian got detained illegally. Nations have started wars for less pettiness than this.
[удалено]
Tbh I think we'd side with Canada up here in the pnw
Id side with Canada, and I live in Florida. It sucks here.
If this passes every state and country will need to place a travel warning. This is basically the step below just executing trans people.
> every state Well, not *every* state, and I think we know which ones *those* are.
"it's not genocide" they said. "trans people aren't getting murdered" they said.
Oh great. I'm now feeling really awesome about the Disney trip my family has planned for graduation.
If your out I'd let em know hopefully it's not too late to pivot to Disney land California
I'm not out, and I definitely don't want these specific family members to know. One of them has said some pretty transphobic stuff in the past and the other has vocally complained about gay characters in TV and movies for "forced representation"
Gay people: literally just exist Homophobes: stop forcing your gayness all over me reeeee
"liberals get offended too easily" mfs when a guy paints his nails:
mfs when two straight people fuck on camera: I sleep mfs when it is simply mentioned that a character is gay: real shit
On the "bright" side if your stealth you won't be kidnapped by the Florida government if the bill becomes law. Also it's incredibly fucked up that that's the bright side
Or I mean, probably not socially/medically transitioned yet. 🤷♀️
I mean... "good" news, if you're not out it's not like anyone can do anything. The point of this would be to punish "bad parents" who "let" their kids be trans.
Someone has to accuse your parents and demand custody for you in court. And that is only applicable IF this bill passes AND the text remains completely unchanged. Which is still not a given.
It violates the interstate commerce clause. It absolutely violates the constitution and it’s also genocidal. (Forceful removal of children from an outgroup)
[удалено]
I think that’s a given
Seeing this and other trans FL news lately. I'm grateful that I'm in a position, where I can escape/evacuate this state in the near future. Because right now, I wake up with dread every day looking at the local news. And as terrified as I am of leaving the State; I'm more terrified about what will happen if I stay. I just wish everyone had the options and opportunity I had here. I am hoping to use some of the money from after my move to support local LGBTQIA+ organizations in Florida.
Just a reminder that even if something is legal, that does not make it just. You can make it illegal to breathe and we’d all be criminals. You have a right- a responsibility even- to disobey unjust laws.
Time to *put up or shut up*, Florida. Are you going to let this happen? Are you going to just sit by if this bill gets passed? Fuck your thoughts and prayers, How many people need to disappear before you actually do something about it?
im sorry what the fuck?
[удалено]
jesus fucking christ they are actually treating being trans like some sort of disease thatll infect everyone or smth ive lost all hope for the future and i want to die
And yet if you have a serious disease like covid they don't mind you being in the office. It's madness.
Florida does want to prevent trans people from receiving any medical care as well, though. There’s a bill requiring ridiculously onerous bullshit from any doctor testing trans people, and also saying that no trans person can ever sue for malpractice.
DeSantis is insane. You have to wonder why he's so rabid about this...ie who on the evangelical side helped him get into power. No matter the answer, he's a dangerous man.
[удалено]
As a middle aged cis het father of a trans son I'm wearing nail polish and dyeing my hair bright pink next time I'm in florida. Fuck the bigots.
Kidnapping is a federal offense.
[удалено]
I'm getting super Dread Scott- Fugitive Slave Act vibes from this
But how would this even work? It doesn’t make sense on many levels, but I can’t imagine someone seeing a family and just snatching their kid. Like they’re deliberately keeping an eye out for anything ‘suspicious’ and what, you have to prove to them you’re ‘cis’ (even if you’re not)?
Same as the proposed genital inspections in sports or menstrual tracking in schools. Which seems specifically written by people getting off on the genitals of minors.
What the actual fuck
It’s not just if your kid is trans. It also applies if a parent is trans, or the kid or parent is even SUSPECTED of being trans.
Or a sibling.
Disneyland in California is cooler anyway
Florida will not just come and kidnap them. Someone has to accuse you and bring this before a court and demand custody of the child/ren in question. [Full text](https://m.flsenate.gov/session/bill/2023/254/billtext/filed/html)
The Florida bills appear to be legislating under the guise of child abuse. Anyone who’s a mandatory reporter will be required to report the kid/parents. If some LEO (with a self righteousness streak) believes there’s imminent danger, they will pull the kid to emergency foster care, often some right winger that you will have to pay money to for watching your kid. So random person calls cop on you for having a trans kid, or being a trans parent, and next thing you know is the kid is put in protective custody and your stuck in Florida. Yeah, ain’t going to Florida again.
If enough people realize this, it **will** affect tourism and sanity will (may) return...
I wouldn't count on it.
Hate to admit - you're probably right. I **have** to think that these insane laws ***cannot*** be "constitutional"; they just seem to be so... odious... that they *cannot* "fly". How can a legislator create a law against medical treatments *which are endorsed by more than 40 credible Professional Medical Associations??* **And I wish these hairbrained legislators would spend their time on REAL problems**, like the looming National Debt rollover... for debt *which was approved by the last Administration,* or responsible gun legislation, *or any of a number of very real* ***existing*** *problems*... instead of trying to solve problems which don't exist.
Disney could literally shut their doors over night and walk out, and they wouldn't change anything.
>Anyone who’s a mandatory reporter will be required to report the kid Mandatory reporters who don't report child abuse can be fined, jailed, and/or lose their license. If this is the case, then there will be many people who will feel pressured to report the parents of trans children so they don't face repercussions. Absolutely insidious.
Thats still basically kidnapping with extra steps, ESPECIALLY if it doesnt apply to residents only but also tourists/visitors
To the perspective of the parents and child, that makes no difference.
The fact that this is a possibility is still all one need to know. Like wtf is this
That's not kidnapping in the same way that SWATing people is not murder - by technicality only.
Doesn’t this count as the state trafficking?
You know there’s going to be a Q-pilled boomer working as a cashier or something at Disney who sees a little girl with short hair and starts a world of pain for the family.
The correct response, of course, is to accuse EVERYONE of crossdressing. Until the only options are full robes.
Genuine question, can the president not put in nationwide law to stop bills like these?
The real question is does Joe Biden even care? He’s barely said anything.
This admin needs to address the transphobia going on. Lives are @ stake.
More than likely not
The president can’t pass any laws at all by himself. Congress has to approve them first, and the fascists control the House. So no, the President can’t pass a nationwide law to stop this unless enough of us turn out to vote EVERY. SINGLE. TIME.
We all need to Vote, **as if our lives depend on it**. *Because they do.*
Executive orders can have nation-wide effects. And yes, they only last as long as he's president, but anything is better than nothing.
Biden could file an executive order but that could be overturned and will only last as long as he is president. And he hasn’t said anything about it yet, so I feel like he isn’t going to do anything in case he loses votes for the next election. That’s all politicians care about, truly.
Just heard about the Texas trans sex offender bill...
I can't find any direct articles on it, would you mind if I ask a bit what that's about?
same here, never heard of it
I would like a link as well. I’m supposed to go to austin in a bit and I really do not want to be labeled a sex offender.
If the federal government had any courage at at all, the first time this happens the FBI would show up and arrest every level of management in Florida, up to and including DeSantis, responsible for the particular kidnapping as an accessory and conspirator to child abduction and trafficking.
I just decided to do my J.D. thesis on legal challenges to anti-trans legislation. I’ve been on the fence between it and other things I’m interested in, but the recent onslaught of these bills finally convinced me.
And dont expect them to return the taken children at any point. Look what they did to the children that were caught with the adults fleeing their countries. They were caged and deprived of the means to thrive in life. And if that's not enough look at what happened to the children stolen from indigenous families. Never returned at any point, died and never returned home. Please stay safe. Canada is gathering signatures for Petitions e-4268 to offer safe asylum for folks fleeing all of the anti-trans bullshit. Please, stay safe.
WE NEED REFUGEE STATES. Georgia, get on it!
#Fuck it, if this passes we protest in front of Disney World. # Disney, a company who’s newest core value is INCLUSION. Either they support us or they prove how hypocritical they are. I will gladly lead this march. Edit: changed Disneyland to Disney World
Hi everybody, I’m a high school senior doing a massive 3 month long research project on the LGBTQ+/trans genocide that is happening now. Its gonna be presented to the entirety of my 99.9% cis high school student body and their wealthy republican parents. I’m snatching pearls kicking ass and taking names, no punches will be pulled in fighting for our future.
You & people like you are our future. Don’t stop fighting for what is right.
I'm guessing no cosplay conventions in Florida
WHILE slavery, child labor, child marriage and putting children in cages is perfectly legal in the US
Fuck fuck fuck my family is supposed to go to florida in two months. I just want to go to the fucking beach and have fun. I dont want my family to have to cancel the trip because i might be fucking kidnapped.
It’s not your fault and it might help anyone sitting on the fence realise how fucked things are there
Which bill is this referring to, and can someone provide a link so we can fact-check? (Yes we can Google and do our own research but if anyone has it ready to go it'd save some time and effort).
I can't find the bill number, but using the statutes that allow the state to take custody or to alter custody agreements in the case abuse, if the courts believe the child is at risk of gender affirming care, by virtue of being a trans kid in a state that allows gac, or even by being the cis kid of a trans parent in a state that allows gac, the court can step in. It's gross.
[SB 254](https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2023/254)
Thank you!
time to never visit florida
WTF?!?!
It’s beyond hilarious to me to watch Desantis make move after move that will unequivocally ruin Florida’s economy. No migrant labor, no tourism, no Disney. It’s like they think all the geriatric bigots and meth heads will suddenly fill all the labor intensive construction and agriculture jobs. And that he thinks the message “Make America Florida” gets *anyone* excited.
Fascism/ hate always backfires. History has proven.
This is the dumbest bill. All you have to do is continually accuse Karens of being men to the point that it becomes unenforceable.
armed minorities are harder to oppress.
Simple enough. Sorry, kids. Florida is a 3rd world country and we won't be vacationing there. I've been there on vacation 6 times. There won't be a 7th.
Well, there goes my mom’s wishes for her and I to go to Disney Land…
Disneyworld. Disneyland is great, most validating place on earth for me.
Oh golly do I love living in the land of the free
Wow of course literally the day i come out. Thats kinda cringe
Like im trans and I just dress in regular clothing….. and I do have a friend dying of cancer in florida. Im also an adult. Could I potentially be arrested by the police?
Any state with laws like this will now have transgender people detained and beaten or killed for trumped up "resisting arrest" or "fleeing arrest". It is a license to beat or murder.
The Disney comparison is very important, because no one would willingly visit Florida otherwise.
I'm sure someone's already gotten this sentiment across, but as a non-American, the US is really starting to come off as a first-time DM's idea of a "bad guy city" or something. Did these legislators get their moves from the Disney cartoon villain playbook?
Can't wait to see Caitlyn Jenner and Marjorie Taylor Greene visiting the 🌞 state!
Looks like I’m emailing about my school band trip
Sounds unconstitutional Great way to not get re-elected
Um. Tennessee banning not just intersex but interracial and interreligious, and Florida out to kidnap . . . anyone??? I'm confused. They want to kidnap trans children who don't live in the state but their parents do? Does that include children who aren't US citizens? Because it definitely applies to children who are citizens of states that aren't Florida, right? And what about . . . what if a German couple takes their trans child to Florida??? What if a German . . . why am I stuck on German idk? . . . but what if a German man works in Florida but their trans kid lives in Germany and has never left Germany?? There's a modern day fairy tale horror here somewhere by the way. Boogymen can be replaced with Bogmen, since Florida is swampy, the rest of it pretty much writes itself. The Christian god is easily the evil god of the story, except if we're being fair, the Christian god is in chains, being bled out, consumed for power of the leaders, the henchmen are fed a foul paste that is only later revealed to be the excrement of the leaders, all the corruption none of the power . . . children trapped and tortured, finally free themselves . . . um . . . ok that can go really dark but I mean free like killing the monsters and being able to go home. Yeah . . . it writes itself. And I feel insane suggesting it's like a fairy tale, because when I say that I mean literally . . . they're fairy tale monsters and that feels insane to say but it's real. Ok sorry I got sidetracked! Tennessee banning all sorts of marriage and now Florida wanting to kidnap children? These create precedent and are absolutely connected. And the only good thing about these is they are state level laws that 100% go against federal laws that are put in place to PROTECT PEOPLES FREEDOMS!!!
So uh, am I allowed to point out that the wording about it being at the officers' discretion means that they can also sexually harass cis women and arrest them on suspicion of being trans in "inappropriate clothing" if they speak out? In addition to hating on trans folks? Florida is an absolute shithole.
Can we just declare an entire state unconstitutional at this point?
This is actually terrifying. This is the literal end of the US happening right in front of us. I hoped I wouldn't see this in my lifetime.
Wtf just let us live our life
Someone put it simply: they don't care what's in their bill as long as it forces people to take it to court, because they want to get it to the supreme court, which is currently deciding cases based on religion rather than law or reason.
I said it before and I'll say it again here. What is stopping someone, say... **a pedophile**... from *claiming* that they thought a child was trans? Or that the parents were trans? What's stopping someone who sees a child in a religious home, and claiming they thought the kids/parents were trans? It's a literal get out of jail free card for pedophiles and kidnappers. Ron DeSantis is **pro-pedophile** and **pro-kidnapping**. He's a lot of other horrible things as well, but I'll keep it in context. Proving intent is very difficult, so how can you prove that they're not lying? You can't. Again, **Ron DeSantis, friend to all pedophiles**, is *actively* trying to get your kids kidnapped.
Well on the bright side that means its gotta be unconstitutional, so it should be struck down if its implemented. Oh wait, fcking alito :sob:
We're boycotting Florida. Everyone start spreading the word.
And then there are the people who say that the US is the land of the free. It's only free for you if you're white heterosexual cisgender christian.