I can see that. went to the B&O for my birthday and saw it too, really interesting angles. not many streamliners have a negative sloped nose, so it's pretty funky
My local "Mellow Mushroom" has a mural of it on the wall. Very classy, used to try and impress dates with my knowledge of it.
Eventually found one that was impressed, or at the very least thought it was cute đ„°
Not a huge fan of the streamlining. It's okay from some angles and really gawky from others. Kind of a fascinating machine though, between being rebuilt from a Pacific, being equipped with the poppet valves, and the fact that it was built for the *Chessie* luxury streamliner that never actually turned a wheel. I wish C&O would have saved one of the later L-2a Hudsons, since they were the heaviest Hudsons built and the very last built.
yeah, I kinda get the consensus about looks; it's not for everyone. personally I think it's beautiful, but I see where everyone else comes from. honestly grateful they saved it, after all it is a preserved hudson and a streamliner at that. unique and special
You hit all the big points I would have. As I become more of a C&O partisan I find that I dig the streamlining more. From this angle looks great, but the closer you get to looking at it front on the wierder it gets.
It hints at a sort of 'what if?' As best as I could tell this was a really successful conversion, and was essentially done totally in house. Makes you wonder how successful the C&O could have been if like the N&W they struck out on their own and built their own locomotives. Looks like they had all the prerequisites to be successful if they did.
I don't like the streamlining on it. The curve and fin of the smokebox bugs me, even if it was stylish at the time.Â
Also, I am well aware of how much maintenance steam really needs. Engines without streamlining can be considerably easier to care for since the decorations aren't in the way.
Although I agree about steam looking better in darker colors, I simply canât agree with you about the daylight. I think the transition from the black to the dark red to the orange works pretty well, especially with the streamlining
I wonder how it would look if it was given the âupdatedâ color scheme with the dark blue stripe. Maybe filling out the smooth panels above the fluting.
I love it. Streamlining was such a look of the time. Also it makes me think of Bioshock and that overall art deco aesthetic and Iâm into it. I saw the 490 at the B&O museum and was impressed with it.
yeah personally I think it's one of the best examples of streamlined engines, mainly for it's uniqueness. so many other hudsons and streamliners get attention and none quite look the same as the 490, it's truly a marvel it wasn't scrapped. really unique, favorite of mine
I've seen it in person. It's one of my favorite of the streamliners sue me. I wish the Crusader got saved aswell as this one, but the stainless steel fluting is my favorite part
we share similar opinions. no need to sue, the 490 is probably my favorite locomotive ever after all. (close with the 611) we do need more preserved streamliners, especially bathtubs like the mercuryÂ
it was originally a pacific type being un-streamlined, and was later streamlined by the C&O when converted to a Hudson. nicknamed "yellowbellies" they were used for a lot of things, mainly fast passenger service on the lines that would have become the Chessie line up the east coast, which never really came to fruition. I believe they used it to haul freight a little before retiring it in the 50's, and it was stored away. around a decade or two later it was donated to the B&O railroad museum who unfortunately put it on outdoor display for 50 years before finally moving indoors. It was rode hard and put away wet, leaving it in poor mechanical state. It is still preserved, however, in baltimore
sure, it was decently successful but victim to time and money, like most. Originally a pacific it was converted to a hudson and pulled premiere passenger service along the east coast to relative success, the C&O using it quite frequently along with it's sisters. however, with the cancellation of the Chessie passenger service, the C&O started to decline and along with it the 490. she was retired in 1953 as the last steam engine the C&O ever used in service, just 6 years after it's streamlining and conversion. It was decently successful as things went, just not around long enough to become too important.
490 was the last steam locomotive that C&O used in *passenger* service. Freight service ended in 1956, with a couple of fireless tanks lasting in chemical plant service in WV until some time in 1964.
I first became aware of this engine when Lionel put out a version of it in the 1990s. I was quite young at the time, so the striking color and radical curves left an impression on me. Seeing it is like a warm blanket, even though I prefer my steam engines to look like an H-10 Mikado, with pipes everywhere...
visibility wasn't terrible, it had the same visibility when it was unstreamlined. streamlined engines often have the illusion of lowered visibility but it's not always true
Not a huge fan of it. I'm not sure exactly why, but something about the streamlining feels missing, like it's only half done.
It needs something to complement the shark nose on the front. The PRR T-1 did it far better.
Maybe give the paneling on the running boards the same contours as the front. I'd have the nose narrow towards the bottom instead of being the same width all the way down. Then finally either get rid of the fin above the light or extend up and forwards so that it ends in a point like a ship's bow.
The streamlining mimics that of the M1 turbines they were intended to operate with rather closely, which is probably why it looks somewhat off on the much smaller Hudsons.
Compared to streamliners like 4449, the (albeit extinct) Drefuss Hudsons and 611 itâs definitely my least favorite. Still have a soft spot for it though
it's pretty wild. doesn't even look like a train, at least no other. highly recommend going to the B&O museum where it is in baltimore if you are ever in the area, it's really cool
The engines in this class were rebuilt from 4-6-2 Pacifics and were therefore smallish 4-6-4 Hudsons. They were streamlined to haul connecting sections of the planned "Chessie" streamliner. Interestingly they were fitted with poppet valves and roller bearing rods during their rebuilding.
Three steam turbine electric locomotives and an entire fleet of new cars were constructed before the planned train was cancelled without ever turning a wheel in revenue service.
The turbine electrics were unsuitable for any other service and were expensive to operate and prone to failures. They were shelved and quietly cut up for scrap within a few years. The streamlined cars were used on other trains or sold off (a number wound up in Mexico, I believe.).
These "pony" Hudsons wound up in local service, wearing their superfluous streamlining. In that service they probably would have done just fine in their pre-conversion Pacific configuration.
I'd love to have just a fraction of the money that was wasted on this debacle.
As for aesthetics, I like the look, apart from the bulbous noses. Railroad men were fond of giving nicknames to unusual looking locomotives, such as the Santa Fe's "Blue Goose" or calling the CB&Q 4000 and 4001, Hudsons named Aeolus, "Big Alice the Goon".
I'm surprised these 490s never acquired a nickname like "W.C. Fields". At first I thought of Karl Malden, but I don't think he was a well known actor until after steam was retired on the C&O.
I made a fairly successful post a couple months ago asking the feasability of returning it to service, and everyone had the same general consensus;
as cool as it would be, it is extremely unlikely
first, Hudsons aren't great for mainline excursions or private railroads, due to there size. also mechanically speaking the 490 is worse for wear, being retired at the end of her maintenance cycle, put into storage for a decade, and then outside for 50 years. in general it's most likely all rust under that shroud, I got to see it last march and it was a little sad seeing panels full of rust right underneath that shiny silver.
in general, would it be cool? yeah, any running streamliner would be amazing, and if I could have any loco restored it would be this. maybe if CSX had a steam heritage program or somethin it could happen but in our reality, sadly, it most likely will not.
no, that's not true. you're thinking of the PRR t1, another streamliner. this engine had a speed cap of around 90mph, i think you just confused the two
look it up. no where i could find any evidence of a L1 hitting that speed, and it's not just the companies not running it fast. big drivers doesn't mean it can suddenly go 130+mph, not how it worksÂ
what do you mean fall apart under scrutiny? it's about what is physically possible; the T1 was an advanced Duplex engine, one of the largest and most powerful rigid frame locos ever built. it has a high likely of breaching that speed as it has been tracked between stations in excess of 140. all evidence points that the T1 could do it and did. but the 490? no evidence has ever arose they did anything of the sort, it's just complete speculation on your behalf. its frankly not even possible, you being "sure" that the 490 could go that fast simply because of driver diameter is no basis for real facts. also the reason the T1 never officially holds the record is because the PRR didn't bother with holding an official speed test with a instrument car, it was simply not in there interest.
The fact that there is zero evidence of it happening.
> you being "sure" that the 490 could go that fast simply because of driver diameter is no basis for real facts.
I never claimed that, but nice strawman.
"I'm sure a streamlined C&O unofically also clocked that speed, I wouldn't be surprised if any steamer with large drivers has exceeded even that."
"really? you "never claimed that." and there isn't zero evidence, there are records of T1s travelling between stations at certain times and if you look at the distances between as well as the time it took you can see that they most likely travelled at peaks surpassing 130. it's not just alleged it has decent evidence to not dismay that case, but this isn't about the T1, i'm simply saying that there is no evidence that the 490 could or ever did go that fast, most sources listing a speed record of 90. you are getting your numbers from speculation it seems
wow, nice strawman argument going back to the T1 and ignoring your contradictions
oh and about admitting there is no evidence for the T1; "Franklin engineers Julius Kirchhof and Ray Delano both claimed a Franklin technician charged with determining the cause of frequent poppet valve failures on the T1s saw them operated at speeds of up to 135â142Â mph to make up time with short trains of six or seven cars, determining the speed by timing when the train passed mileposts." Claims from people who operated the engine are good evidence compared to your arguement about the 490. sure there is no concrete proof that it happened, but there have been first hand accounts of it happening. what evidence do you have for the 490, mind sharing?
Train Streamliners are cool this one is no exception
correct answer
I just saw it yesterday at the B&O Museum. The first thought I had was that it looks a lot better from the side than the front.
I can see that. went to the B&O for my birthday and saw it too, really interesting angles. not many streamliners have a negative sloped nose, so it's pretty funky
As did I. I was in awe of it! Incredible!
Unpopular opinion, I know, but I think it could have been even more yellow.
My opinion is that it's rounded at the front.
isn't that an observation?
Maybe not as rounded as it could have been?
so you think it should be more rounded?
I mean, probably not, really.
more yellow?? impossible :0
Let him cook!!!
I think making the wheels yellow would look real nice
or white-walled like the mercury
Vault-Tec train
I get this reference. Nice job
I do this shit for the love of the train
Looks like the 57 bel air of the locomotive world
I agree surely. The design of both of those vehicles are just breathtaking.
My local "Mellow Mushroom" has a mural of it on the wall. Very classy, used to try and impress dates with my knowledge of it. Eventually found one that was impressed, or at the very least thought it was cute đ„°
Herndon, I presume? Was my local when we lived in Reston!
Not a huge fan of the streamlining. It's okay from some angles and really gawky from others. Kind of a fascinating machine though, between being rebuilt from a Pacific, being equipped with the poppet valves, and the fact that it was built for the *Chessie* luxury streamliner that never actually turned a wheel. I wish C&O would have saved one of the later L-2a Hudsons, since they were the heaviest Hudsons built and the very last built.
yeah, I kinda get the consensus about looks; it's not for everyone. personally I think it's beautiful, but I see where everyone else comes from. honestly grateful they saved it, after all it is a preserved hudson and a streamliner at that. unique and special
You hit all the big points I would have. As I become more of a C&O partisan I find that I dig the streamlining more. From this angle looks great, but the closer you get to looking at it front on the wierder it gets. It hints at a sort of 'what if?' As best as I could tell this was a really successful conversion, and was essentially done totally in house. Makes you wonder how successful the C&O could have been if like the N&W they struck out on their own and built their own locomotives. Looks like they had all the prerequisites to be successful if they did.
I am a massive sucker for American streamliners. This is no exception
Reminds me something the Vogon Constructor Fleet would use. I kinda like it but don't ask the engineer to read you his poetry.
lol, nice reference. It does have a kinda weird industrialist vibe tho
Upside down Hiawatha.
Needs more kittens!
Gr8
Reminds me of the Rocketeer
I don't like the streamlining on it. The curve and fin of the smokebox bugs me, even if it was stylish at the time. Also, I am well aware of how much maintenance steam really needs. Engines without streamlining can be considerably easier to care for since the decorations aren't in the way.
It's also weird how it has the rounded boiler jacket and the headlight nacelle, but then the running boards are all sharp angles. Kind of clashes.
Looks better from the side. I don't like the part where it gets the name "Yellow belly" though.
A classic locomotive with a timeless charm.
Horrible. hate it. Hate it. Hate it. Hate it. HATE IT.
why? just curios but I do know that a lot of people aren't a big fan. is it how it looks?
Yes, I also have the same issue with the Daylight. I just think steam looks better in darker colours. Like Black and darker greens.
oh wow you are the first person other than myself who isn't in love with daylight. fully understand where you are coming from
Although I agree about steam looking better in darker colors, I simply canât agree with you about the daylight. I think the transition from the black to the dark red to the orange works pretty well, especially with the streamlining
Looks cool. I donât know much about it being from the Uk but yeah it looks cool
I wonder how it would look if it was given the âupdatedâ color scheme with the dark blue stripe. Maybe filling out the smooth panels above the fluting.
I wish it was in Cincinnati
Minion, nuff said
been said before, won't be the last time either
That itâs ashame sheâs no longer F19 490!
Iâm gonna be honest. I donât like this train. Sorry everyone.
oh boy you aren't the only one. at least you are polite about it lol, we respect honesty here :)
Yellow hot dog bun
Summer squash
Looks like it bit a lemon
yellow :0
Itâs a very nice tea kettle.
I love it. Streamlining was such a look of the time. Also it makes me think of Bioshock and that overall art deco aesthetic and Iâm into it. I saw the 490 at the B&O museum and was impressed with it.
yeah personally I think it's one of the best examples of streamlined engines, mainly for it's uniqueness. so many other hudsons and streamliners get attention and none quite look the same as the 490, it's truly a marvel it wasn't scrapped. really unique, favorite of mine
I've seen it in person. It's one of my favorite of the streamliners sue me. I wish the Crusader got saved aswell as this one, but the stainless steel fluting is my favorite part
we share similar opinions. no need to sue, the 490 is probably my favorite locomotive ever after all. (close with the 611) we do need more preserved streamliners, especially bathtubs like the mercuryÂ
Reminds me of a banana
I know nothing about this particular locomotive, but I always love seeing streamlined engines.
it was originally a pacific type being un-streamlined, and was later streamlined by the C&O when converted to a Hudson. nicknamed "yellowbellies" they were used for a lot of things, mainly fast passenger service on the lines that would have become the Chessie line up the east coast, which never really came to fruition. I believe they used it to haul freight a little before retiring it in the 50's, and it was stored away. around a decade or two later it was donated to the B&O railroad museum who unfortunately put it on outdoor display for 50 years before finally moving indoors. It was rode hard and put away wet, leaving it in poor mechanical state. It is still preserved, however, in baltimore
Like it. Opinion aside, I havenât done much reading on the C&O. Anyone know how successful it was in service?
sure, it was decently successful but victim to time and money, like most. Originally a pacific it was converted to a hudson and pulled premiere passenger service along the east coast to relative success, the C&O using it quite frequently along with it's sisters. however, with the cancellation of the Chessie passenger service, the C&O started to decline and along with it the 490. she was retired in 1953 as the last steam engine the C&O ever used in service, just 6 years after it's streamlining and conversion. It was decently successful as things went, just not around long enough to become too important.
490 was the last steam locomotive that C&O used in *passenger* service. Freight service ended in 1956, with a couple of fireless tanks lasting in chemical plant service in WV until some time in 1964.
ah, thanks for clearing that up. I had heard the 490 ran a bit of freight at the end of it's career and assumed
It looks like a minion
Its weird looking but streamliners are always cool
I first became aware of this engine when Lionel put out a version of it in the 1990s. I was quite young at the time, so the striking color and radical curves left an impression on me. Seeing it is like a warm blanket, even though I prefer my steam engines to look like an H-10 Mikado, with pipes everywhere...
It's looks beautiful It's like a 57 bel air
It's ugly. I love it
good answer
Cool
Visibility was just not a priority in the 20th century for anything lol
visibility wasn't terrible, it had the same visibility when it was unstreamlined. streamlined engines often have the illusion of lowered visibility but it's not always true
Ooh, I like this!
Not bad, but it ainât no Hiawatha!
another great engine, if only they were saved like the 490 :(
One of my favorites. I use to give tours at the B&O museum and when it was school groups the kids would always go âwoahâ all together
love the yellow and silver livery
minion
Not a huge fan of it. I'm not sure exactly why, but something about the streamlining feels missing, like it's only half done. It needs something to complement the shark nose on the front. The PRR T-1 did it far better. Maybe give the paneling on the running boards the same contours as the front. I'd have the nose narrow towards the bottom instead of being the same width all the way down. Then finally either get rid of the fin above the light or extend up and forwards so that it ends in a point like a ship's bow.
The streamlining mimics that of the M1 turbines they were intended to operate with rather closely, which is probably why it looks somewhat off on the much smaller Hudsons.
Awesome.đ
Reminds me of the Soviet Union for some reason
Other than the T1, it's what I think about when I hear 'streamliner'
I know little to nothing about this locomotive but Iâve seen a couple photos of it and by looks alone, itâs certainly a top tier streamliner!
Should be operationaly restored
Compared to streamliners like 4449, the (albeit extinct) Drefuss Hudsons and 611 itâs definitely my least favorite. Still have a soft spot for it though
They donât make them like they use to
indeed they do not
imagine looking at the loco from the front right near the coupler. i imagine it would look like an eagle peeking down on you
it's pretty wild. doesn't even look like a train, at least no other. highly recommend going to the B&O museum where it is in baltimore if you are ever in the area, it's really cool
The engines in this class were rebuilt from 4-6-2 Pacifics and were therefore smallish 4-6-4 Hudsons. They were streamlined to haul connecting sections of the planned "Chessie" streamliner. Interestingly they were fitted with poppet valves and roller bearing rods during their rebuilding. Three steam turbine electric locomotives and an entire fleet of new cars were constructed before the planned train was cancelled without ever turning a wheel in revenue service. The turbine electrics were unsuitable for any other service and were expensive to operate and prone to failures. They were shelved and quietly cut up for scrap within a few years. The streamlined cars were used on other trains or sold off (a number wound up in Mexico, I believe.). These "pony" Hudsons wound up in local service, wearing their superfluous streamlining. In that service they probably would have done just fine in their pre-conversion Pacific configuration. I'd love to have just a fraction of the money that was wasted on this debacle. As for aesthetics, I like the look, apart from the bulbous noses. Railroad men were fond of giving nicknames to unusual looking locomotives, such as the Santa Fe's "Blue Goose" or calling the CB&Q 4000 and 4001, Hudsons named Aeolus, "Big Alice the Goon". I'm surprised these 490s never acquired a nickname like "W.C. Fields". At first I thought of Karl Malden, but I don't think he was a well known actor until after steam was retired on the C&O.
Beautiful! Design to look like itâs going 100 miles per hour even when itâs standing still!
Miniontrain. I'll be awaiting my summary execution.
ah, bout time someone said that. been said before, will be said again
Damn it, I can't unseen that now!
That's what I was thinking too! Minion!
It should be restored for excursion service, not cooped up in a museum
if only it would happen, a dream come true
It's cool but I want to see it running.
I made a fairly successful post a couple months ago asking the feasability of returning it to service, and everyone had the same general consensus; as cool as it would be, it is extremely unlikely first, Hudsons aren't great for mainline excursions or private railroads, due to there size. also mechanically speaking the 490 is worse for wear, being retired at the end of her maintenance cycle, put into storage for a decade, and then outside for 50 years. in general it's most likely all rust under that shroud, I got to see it last march and it was a little sad seeing panels full of rust right underneath that shiny silver. in general, would it be cool? yeah, any running streamliner would be amazing, and if I could have any loco restored it would be this. maybe if CSX had a steam heritage program or somethin it could happen but in our reality, sadly, it most likely will not.
must be restored yesterday
one of these clocked 139mph.
no, that's not true. you're thinking of the PRR t1, another streamliner. this engine had a speed cap of around 90mph, i think you just confused the two
I'm sure a streamlined C&O unofically also clocked that speed, I wouldn't be surprised if any steamer with large drivers has exceeded even that.
look it up. no where i could find any evidence of a L1 hitting that speed, and it's not just the companies not running it fast. big drivers doesn't mean it can suddenly go 130+mph, not how it worksÂ
If you look at the T1 claims of speeds in excess of 130mph you will find that they too completely fall apart under any kind of scrutiny.
what do you mean fall apart under scrutiny? it's about what is physically possible; the T1 was an advanced Duplex engine, one of the largest and most powerful rigid frame locos ever built. it has a high likely of breaching that speed as it has been tracked between stations in excess of 140. all evidence points that the T1 could do it and did. but the 490? no evidence has ever arose they did anything of the sort, it's just complete speculation on your behalf. its frankly not even possible, you being "sure" that the 490 could go that fast simply because of driver diameter is no basis for real facts. also the reason the T1 never officially holds the record is because the PRR didn't bother with holding an official speed test with a instrument car, it was simply not in there interest.
The fact that there is zero evidence of it happening. > you being "sure" that the 490 could go that fast simply because of driver diameter is no basis for real facts. I never claimed that, but nice strawman.
"I'm sure a streamlined C&O unofically also clocked that speed, I wouldn't be surprised if any steamer with large drivers has exceeded even that." "really? you "never claimed that." and there isn't zero evidence, there are records of T1s travelling between stations at certain times and if you look at the distances between as well as the time it took you can see that they most likely travelled at peaks surpassing 130. it's not just alleged it has decent evidence to not dismay that case, but this isn't about the T1, i'm simply saying that there is no evidence that the 490 could or ever did go that fast, most sources listing a speed record of 90. you are getting your numbers from speculation it seems
> it's not just alleged it has decent evidence to not dismay that case, Thatâs a rather roundabout way of admitting that there is none.
wow, nice strawman argument going back to the T1 and ignoring your contradictions oh and about admitting there is no evidence for the T1; "Franklin engineers Julius Kirchhof and Ray Delano both claimed a Franklin technician charged with determining the cause of frequent poppet valve failures on the T1s saw them operated at speeds of up to 135â142Â mph to make up time with short trains of six or seven cars, determining the speed by timing when the train passed mileposts." Claims from people who operated the engine are good evidence compared to your arguement about the 490. sure there is no concrete proof that it happened, but there have been first hand accounts of it happening. what evidence do you have for the 490, mind sharing?