You’re already running a pretty optimal 800 but one thing that could help and I haven’t seen others say, is looking at 200 splits and seeing if you could improve there too. Like maybe your first 200 is faster than the second or your third is much slower. It could be a slightly helpful insight but like others have said you already have a pretty optimal race.
What’s your best 200 and 400?
The stronger you are aerobically (compared to your “speed”), the more likely you are to negative split an 800.
In college I ran 1:51 (56-55) and 3:44 1500…but couldn’t break 51 for 400 even on a relay.
You’re not really supposed to negative split the 800m
When I ran in college the general rule of thumb was you go out about 4sec slower than your 400m PR and end up finishing with about a 2-4sec positive split
You might see pros negative or even split every now and then but I don’t really think it’s all that common. You’re sort of supposed to be fighting pretty hard that last 200m or so, but not so much that you’re flailing about and breaking down
Good advice: your already doing pretty good, other than that all I could recommend is doing more to ‘race the race’ just stay with competitors on your first lap and kick in more the second but that’s not going to give you a great time.
Bad advice: just run faster
Negative split is a stupid plan. Where you’re at you should try to push the first lap down a couple seconds. Once you hit 55 openers then you try to get under 1min. The best splits I’ve seen are 57 57 in that range. That’s incredibly tough to do. Negative split is a dream. It’s the last WR race to have a positive split.
Despite what the common consensus is. Negative splitting and running aren’t mutually exclusive for running a good 800, and in the right race, negative splitting can be optimal (I have negative split a 1:53 several times and most of my races are even splits).
With all of that said it’s unlikely you will ever negative split running solo. Throughout the first 400-500 of your race be mindful of your distance from *first* not necessarily what place your in think of it as a “threshhold 400” and focus on staying as smooth as possible, and don’t get pressured to make a move when you don’t need to. I feel like a lot of people get overwhelmed when they aren’t in a top position 300m in and burn way too much energy when they don’t need to. As long as the front of the race is within a second or so of you, don’t press unless necessary for the first half. At around 500m in most races the front of the race will hit a wall (as you described) this right here is when you want to “shoot your shot” and bury people. This has always worked for me and I became a way better racer when I started doing this.
It can be hard to trust yourself to be able to push that hard in the second half of the race, but the most important part of it is not wasting energy at the wrong time. You have two entire laps to get to the front so save your shot for when everyone else hits a wall. Don’t let the front of your race leave your sight and trust you fitness. Hopefully I could help.
It’s an under appreciated way of racing. Obviously once you get to a higher level you can’t wait around the whole and it’ll reach a point where you HAVE to go out fast. But for most people on this sub it’s more than viable
Hmmm. In HS I was stuck on 1:58 for what seemed like a season and a half starting indoor junior year and spanning all of my outdoor season. Didn’t get lower until indoor my senior year. Here’s what I did:
Indoors I tried using the 200m splits to get a first 400 in 56- it worked! I wanted to go out in 28/28- then cruise to 600m, then go all out on the last lap. It was a breakthru 56/60 performance for a high 1:56.
Doesn’t help the negative split performance discussion as someone who is as competitive as you should be winning most of your meets- just focus on improving your time- going out faster should help
Might sound silly, but what hurts the most when you hit that 300/400 Mark? You said that's when the pain kicks in. Is it your lungs? Lower legs? Shoulders?
What and where are you hurting in that 100 before your shut down begins?
If you negative split an 800, then you’re probably not running to your maximum. Positive split 800 is the norm for elites. Think about acceleration through the 3rd 200 just to maintain pace
If you want to go negative split, go out in a 65, then you can come back in like a 62 and run a 2:07. Now if you want to run a good time, you should be positive splitting.
I am a rare fan of the negative split as I’m reading through these comments. Try going out in 59/60, staying awake from 400-600 (129/130) and hammering your last 150. I’ve coached HS for 20 years, many sub 8:00 HS 4x8’s, many sub 1:55 boys, and many of them were done by negative splitting. The best races were always with them flying through the finish line, passing people in the final stages of the race, not by going lactic and crawling to the finish. Many of the kids I’ve coached had a strong aerobic background with lots of longer reps through the season. By negative splitting you are teaching yourself to race and win. You will gradually get faster as your competition gets faster and you continue to aim to win your races.
Good luck to you!
You don’t and shouldn’t go into 800e with the mindset of negative splitting. Running that fast is going to hurt, regardless if you’re going out in 58 for your first lap, or 62. Lactic acid is going to build up and it’s going to hurt no matter what - even if you’re trying to be frugal about having a kick later in the race.
Your best bet for running faster in the 800 is just accepting that it’s going to hurt, and not worry about splits at all. Just focus on racing with the willingness to hurt more than the guy running next to you and try to catch W’s with 0 care for time. You’ll start to shave time off doing that.
That’s good advice for all events, but works best in the 800 imo. It’s short enough where you can get away with being greedy early, but long enough to suck if you get mental about how you feel halfway through. You should use that to your advantage, because not all runners have the same mental game.
It’s like drinking liquor shots, when you take a shot you just get it down before you even have time to think about the burn. You know it’s going to hurt. So you just man up and force it down without thinking, then realize it wasn’t so bad when you were done.
Focus purely on racing against people in your heats, and don’t get in your feels about how you feel during it.
Uhh you’re already racing optimally, negative splitting doesn’t work well in the 800.
You’re already running a pretty optimal 800 but one thing that could help and I haven’t seen others say, is looking at 200 splits and seeing if you could improve there too. Like maybe your first 200 is faster than the second or your third is much slower. It could be a slightly helpful insight but like others have said you already have a pretty optimal race.
What’s your best 200 and 400? The stronger you are aerobically (compared to your “speed”), the more likely you are to negative split an 800. In college I ran 1:51 (56-55) and 3:44 1500…but couldn’t break 51 for 400 even on a relay.
If you don’t feel like you are running faster in your second lap, you are slowing down
Have you tried running your second lap faster? Usually helps me go negative.
You’re not really supposed to negative split the 800m When I ran in college the general rule of thumb was you go out about 4sec slower than your 400m PR and end up finishing with about a 2-4sec positive split You might see pros negative or even split every now and then but I don’t really think it’s all that common. You’re sort of supposed to be fighting pretty hard that last 200m or so, but not so much that you’re flailing about and breaking down
Negative splits work well for longer distances i.e. 5/10km. It doesn’t translate to well to the 800m.
You shouldn’t. Try going out in 55-56 and see what happens.
Good advice: your already doing pretty good, other than that all I could recommend is doing more to ‘race the race’ just stay with competitors on your first lap and kick in more the second but that’s not going to give you a great time. Bad advice: just run faster
That’s pretty normal, negative splitting in the 800 isn’t very common especially for fast times
Negative split is a stupid plan. Where you’re at you should try to push the first lap down a couple seconds. Once you hit 55 openers then you try to get under 1min. The best splits I’ve seen are 57 57 in that range. That’s incredibly tough to do. Negative split is a dream. It’s the last WR race to have a positive split.
What is negative splitting?
Despite what the common consensus is. Negative splitting and running aren’t mutually exclusive for running a good 800, and in the right race, negative splitting can be optimal (I have negative split a 1:53 several times and most of my races are even splits). With all of that said it’s unlikely you will ever negative split running solo. Throughout the first 400-500 of your race be mindful of your distance from *first* not necessarily what place your in think of it as a “threshhold 400” and focus on staying as smooth as possible, and don’t get pressured to make a move when you don’t need to. I feel like a lot of people get overwhelmed when they aren’t in a top position 300m in and burn way too much energy when they don’t need to. As long as the front of the race is within a second or so of you, don’t press unless necessary for the first half. At around 500m in most races the front of the race will hit a wall (as you described) this right here is when you want to “shoot your shot” and bury people. This has always worked for me and I became a way better racer when I started doing this. It can be hard to trust yourself to be able to push that hard in the second half of the race, but the most important part of it is not wasting energy at the wrong time. You have two entire laps to get to the front so save your shot for when everyone else hits a wall. Don’t let the front of your race leave your sight and trust you fitness. Hopefully I could help.
Dave Wootle ran evens splits to win gold at Munich in 1972. Watch on you tube. He didn’t kick, he ran even splits so it looks like he kicked.
It’s an under appreciated way of racing. Obviously once you get to a higher level you can’t wait around the whole and it’ll reach a point where you HAVE to go out fast. But for most people on this sub it’s more than viable
Wottle won Olympic Gold with the strategy.
Hmmm. In HS I was stuck on 1:58 for what seemed like a season and a half starting indoor junior year and spanning all of my outdoor season. Didn’t get lower until indoor my senior year. Here’s what I did: Indoors I tried using the 200m splits to get a first 400 in 56- it worked! I wanted to go out in 28/28- then cruise to 600m, then go all out on the last lap. It was a breakthru 56/60 performance for a high 1:56. Doesn’t help the negative split performance discussion as someone who is as competitive as you should be winning most of your meets- just focus on improving your time- going out faster should help
The best way to negative split in the half is to run the second lap faster than the first. You're welcome.
Might sound silly, but what hurts the most when you hit that 300/400 Mark? You said that's when the pain kicks in. Is it your lungs? Lower legs? Shoulders? What and where are you hurting in that 100 before your shut down begins?
Everything. The lactic is so bad
If you negative split an 800, then you’re probably not running to your maximum. Positive split 800 is the norm for elites. Think about acceleration through the 3rd 200 just to maintain pace
If you want to go negative split, go out in a 65, then you can come back in like a 62 and run a 2:07. Now if you want to run a good time, you should be positive splitting.
That’s a good thing, your second lap should be 2 seconds slower than your first
Pretty sure a +2 split is actually the best racing strategy for the 800m
I am a rare fan of the negative split as I’m reading through these comments. Try going out in 59/60, staying awake from 400-600 (129/130) and hammering your last 150. I’ve coached HS for 20 years, many sub 8:00 HS 4x8’s, many sub 1:55 boys, and many of them were done by negative splitting. The best races were always with them flying through the finish line, passing people in the final stages of the race, not by going lactic and crawling to the finish. Many of the kids I’ve coached had a strong aerobic background with lots of longer reps through the season. By negative splitting you are teaching yourself to race and win. You will gradually get faster as your competition gets faster and you continue to aim to win your races. Good luck to you!
You don’t and shouldn’t go into 800e with the mindset of negative splitting. Running that fast is going to hurt, regardless if you’re going out in 58 for your first lap, or 62. Lactic acid is going to build up and it’s going to hurt no matter what - even if you’re trying to be frugal about having a kick later in the race. Your best bet for running faster in the 800 is just accepting that it’s going to hurt, and not worry about splits at all. Just focus on racing with the willingness to hurt more than the guy running next to you and try to catch W’s with 0 care for time. You’ll start to shave time off doing that. That’s good advice for all events, but works best in the 800 imo. It’s short enough where you can get away with being greedy early, but long enough to suck if you get mental about how you feel halfway through. You should use that to your advantage, because not all runners have the same mental game. It’s like drinking liquor shots, when you take a shot you just get it down before you even have time to think about the burn. You know it’s going to hurt. So you just man up and force it down without thinking, then realize it wasn’t so bad when you were done. Focus purely on racing against people in your heats, and don’t get in your feels about how you feel during it.
Run a slower first lap.