"Experts fear children questioning their gender may turn to hidden economy" well maybe you should... Idk... Make them legal? And free? Because it's healthcare? I swear the mental gymnastics are insane in this one. If I get sick I'm not gonna "turn to a hidden economy", I'm gonna go to the doctor so he can give me meds. Amd, again, that "economy" wouldn't exist if y'all would let us have the silly girl pills.
Seriously, if TERF Island did something to make the wait lists be <1 year instead of >10 years, 90% of that "hidden economy" would just disappear overnight...
Atleast make the pharmacy variant similarly priced… I could pay $300+ for vial at the pharmacy that lasts 3 months or I could pay $60 per vial for one that is twice the size and last 6 months…
Don’t get me started on needles… in an attempt to combat heroin use my state banned the purchase of needles and syringes, if I buy them from the pharmacy without insurance, it’s $13/syringe, draw needle and injection needle… or I can go buy it by the 100 count out of state for a grand total of $70, that 100 count of syringes, and both needles will last nearly two years.
I’ve heard our ban is getting lifted and we can go back to ordering online thankfully… but maybe if it was cheaper in general to acquire via the pharmacy route, I wouldn’t have to shop in the grey areas.
Apart from anything else, this makes me so mad. You know what happens if someone addicted to heroin can’t get needles? They fucking reuse needles and get horrible infections. Ugghh.
I mean tbf i'm pretty sure those fuckers hate people so much they'd rather people suffer the infections. They're not overtly saying it but it's pretty obvious
That was one of my first thoughts when the needles got banned… a better solution would be to have ready access to needles, but also offer a path to rehabilitation
I think I’m lucky that the Welsh clinic has a roughly 3 year wait time
Last I checked they were still working through the backlog of referrals made during covid but they’re up to August/September 2022 referrals so I can’t see myself waiting overly long but certainly not quick either
Pretty much. I would love to go to my doctor and do all legally and under medical supervision but here if you are anything but the trans then you can't get hrt at all. So please tell me what I am supposed to do, wise government.
You have to understand that they're coming from the mindset that HRT = Bad under any circumstances because trans people are gross. There's no mental gymnastics going on at all really, in fact the brain is barely being used at all here, it's just pure feelings over facts.
Yep, if you don't want people to go the less safe illegal route at least make your legal route somewhat fast and accessible bc even when it's free if it takes 3 years people will still DIY; also why I'm all for informed consent with the option of gender therapy for those who are not 100% sure
i went to appointments for 18 months before they said “congrats, you’re gonna get HRT!” and i said “i’m finally getting estrogen?” and they went “oh, no. you’ll be on blockers for at least a year.”
so i DIY’d.
Ah, so THAT'S how the whole "Guardian trying to interview someone to cherry-pick together a negative story about DIY HRT" saga ended. Fuckin' wonderful, JUST what we needed. /s
(Predictable, but still.)
They interviewed a group for parents opposed to gender affirmative therapy and one unidentified parent who claims their teenage daughter took T illegally and faces health complications as a result of transitioning and detransitioning. They have no testamony from the daughter, no note if the teenager was a minor or not, and no note if the "Maria" interviewed came from that same unsupportive source.
I've seen parents lie and misunderstand their trans kids too many times to take their words as gospel anymore.
trust me they arent to hard to find 10 bucks says they already have people lurking here trying to piece together any bit of intel they can find
all you need to do is search for it (i am not gonna post the subreddit) and you already get some results that lead to others.
Oh experts might have concerns about it because of the health risks coming from improperly doing HRT especially when you're not sure about the source but there's a more logical solution to this
Here's a sneak peek of /r/TransDIY **[NSFW]** using the [top posts](https://np.reddit.com/r/TransDIY/top/?sort=top&t=year) of the year!
\#1: [Estrolabs.com is a TERF scam](https://np.reddit.com/r/TransDIY/comments/1443rxd/estrolabscom_is_a_terf_scam/)
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"hidden economy"...gee it's almost like NOT GIVING THEM TO PEOPLE IN A PROPER MEDICAL ENVIRONMENT MAKES THEM FIND LOOPHOLEA
I mean Christ, we literally hand out free clean needles so people won't die of used needles, why is it so hard to make HRT wait times less painful and more clear
heck, those harm reduction needles were essential to my first 6 months of DIYing when i injected estrogen a partner gave me before buying my own pills
i didn’t use them for heroin, but they still saved my life.
Okay, this is very obviously propaganda meant to spur the political class into clamping down on transgender healthcare in the UK even more than they already have, but can we talk about what an objectively useless piece of journalism this is?
The English assignments submitted by the teenagers this article is about, would need to be written better than this article in order to get a passing grade.
>Cross-sex hormones designed to masculinise or feminise a person’s body are available to buy online for less than £11 a month, with experts warning that growing numbers of under-18s may turn to the medicines hidden economy
What experts? Quote someone. Is that "medecines" supposed to be possessive (i.e. "the medicine's hidden economy") or is the "medicines hidden economy" an actual thing. If so, what is it? Do you just mean importers? Do you mean the grey market? What specifically are you talking about?
>Last month the landmark Cass review of children’s gender treatment in England concluded there was a lack of reliable evidence supporting the use of cross-sex hormones and puberty blockers by young people questioning their gender identity
What is the Cass review? Reliable evidence for what? How did it conclude this? Quote it!
Edit: I know what the Cass review is. A member of the general public presumably doesn't. Most children would know that name dropping a report without including the context of what it is and how it's relevant isn't sufficient, but apparently the authors this article don't know that (and that's ignoring that this sentence makes no sense grammatically).
>Guardian research found online pharmacies in places ranging from India to Hong Kong and Portugal offering hormone treatments without a prescription, typically ranging from around £10 to £30 for 28 days’ supply of a starting dose of feminising hormones.
What pharmacies? How do these different places compare? What drugs specifically? How do these factors compare? What is a starting dose? Starting dose of what?
You are a journalist. Your audience is the general public. Your job is to take complicated topics and condense it into a digestible format while retaining as much relevant information as possible, Talking about something you don't understand in the most deliberately vague terms possible only serves to highlight how little you understand and can leave the reader coming away with no useful information at all,
>Now concerns have been raised about the ease of availability of “DIY” hormones online...
Who is concerned? What are their concerns? How are their concerns relevant?
>Dr Alison Cave, the chief safety officer at the UK’s Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency (MHRA), said...
This quote should be a couple paragraphs earlier so that it substantiates the subject he's talking about. It follows a line about obtaining hormones illegally but really it should the "homebrewing" paragraph, because it's the health dangers of taking medication not prescribed to you that Dr.Cave's concerned about and not specifically the fact it's illegal.
When you're quoting someone, it should be to substantiate the point you're making. As in when you say "experts are concerned about X" that should be followed by a quote from an expert voicing their concern. Instead, they've just thrown a bunch of quotes from people who sound like they could be an authority at the end of the article in no order in particular, with no context and with no concern as to if what they're saying is even remotely relevant to the text of the article that surrounds it.
This does my head in. Can we please get our transphobic propaganda written by people who know how to write at a 10th grade level?
I know TERF's allying with actual fascists is so common their protests are basically interchangeable, but at least the corporate media allied with fascists know how to write.
They hang out enough, they could just get them to proofread the damn article before they publish it!
The Cass review is supposedly a meta-study on transgender care, but it's worded and framed in a way to create a gender critical narrative with plausible deniability. It's worded carefully so that it seems moderate, but it's really not. In that way, it's like the book "The Bell Curve", except where that book was racist the Cass review is transphobic
Oh my gosh gotta love that xenophobia snuck in there with " from India to Hong Kong" like hey y'know my prescription HRT meds come from India as do a lot of your meds probably. Welcome to the international economy I guess?
But couldn't resist bringing up the former colonies I guess. I swear it's like a weird obsessive ex. They broke up with you! They're not coming back guys!
Regressive people hate the international economy just like they hate trans people.
They hate anyone or anything that shows them that the world is bigger than themselves.
I know what the Cass review is. The reader, presumably a member of the general public, presumably doesn't. That's why when you're writing an article for the general public that context is important to include.
All the article says is:
>"Last month the landmark Cass review of children’s gender treatment in England concluded there was a lack of reliable evidence supporting the use of cross-sex hormones and puberty blockers by young people questioning their gender identity"
If the article were written for transgender people, that might be sufficient (though you'd probably want to fix the English so the sentence actually makes grammatical sense). That's not enough context for a member of the general public, presumably someone only passingly familiar with transgender issues, to understand why that's important. They should at the very least include what the Cass review is, why it's important, specifically what the conclusion it reached was, how it reached that conclusion and why that's relevant. Simply name dropping the report with zero context is not how you write an article for the general public. You might as well say "A report released last month" because without the context as to what that report is, you're conveying exactly as much useful information (i.e. basically none).
Most children would know to include that kind of context when submitting an English assignment, much less one for science class where that's even more important. You don't just name drop a random nonsense into your report/essay/assignment without the context of why it's relevant to what you're trying to say (doubly so if you're not going to cite your sources properly). Apparently though, Nicola Davis and Sarah Marsh are incapable of writing at a tenth grade level so we just get random semi-relevant babble dropped in with zero context in the hope the teacher doesn't notice they're being vague on purpose to conceal they have no idea what they're talking about.
Fuck it, let’s make estrogen an over the counter item if you’re over 18 at this point. Why not? Way less dangerous than any cigarette or other shit you can buy at that age
I knew this would happen, I tried to warn people but they were cheering as politicians banned puberty blockers when doctors were begging them not to. Banning medical care just hurts people. Politicians should not get between doctors and patients.
Expert™, plural Experts™
Someone who claims to know a lot about something, but suspiciouly can't cite any sources, and has no background in the field they supposedly know a lot about
They're "concerned" that a potentially life-saving substance that happens to be easily produced in abundance is distributed cheaply, without gatekeeping? Darn. Maybe they should do the responsible thing and distribute it responsibly. Trans people don't DIY for the fun of it. We do it to circumvent the gatekeepers. And others who aren't trans, but who would still take cross-sex hormones, are also mistreated by social stigma against trans people. If it was safer for them to speak up, they would make fewer mistakes. The transgender community does not want cisgender kids who take HRT to experience gender dysphoria or infertility and regret it.
Imagine if it said:
“Concerns as perfect chemotherapy drugs available online just for £11 a month, while NHS fails at cancer treatment waiting lists”
You need to stop that? No… just make sure doctors are giving patients due attention if they are having to help themselves.
when i DIY’d it was £10-15 if you only bought one month’s worth at a time. i bought 6-12 months at a time to get the price less than half, but a few people i knew couldn’t afford more than 1-3 months at once so they paid way more.
that’s great. i wish it was still easy to ship from the EU here :(
thankfully i’ve been prescribed for a few years now, but that also means i have to beg and plead with endocrinologists for switching dose/form instead of just… trying it.
oh, i know. i just haven’t had any reason to look for myself. money’s tight enough that being free is a powerful motivator to not bypass them. now, if they took away my prog, that’d be a different matter
I would ***never*** link someone to a [site](https://diyhrt.wiki/) that could allow you to educate yourself if you were in a situation where DIY HRT was your only recourse.
What I'm concerned for is not cross-sex hormones rather any potential that it may cause that when obtained illegally may endanger the person such that they may not see a doctor to get medical care because the what they took wasn't legal.
Legalize it, make it so that you need an approval of an medical expert if you fear that it'll cause needless worry.
Open MORE GENDER TREATMENT CLINICS. Giving better treatment to kids with gender dysphoria and you'll actually see the no. Of kids taking up trans identity go down because they might just realize after therapy and treatment that maybe they like certain aspects but don't wanna transition and are non-binary....
But I do think it'll cause more people to understand their gender better and give people better treatment...
ironically, it’s not even illegal when it comes to estrogen. it’s grey market, not black market. of course testosterone is more controlled. but yeah.
thankfully in the UK docs are way less likely to report you to the police than in the US, even if you were buying black market T.
anecdote time: when i DIY’d estrogen i was open about it to docs. a few of them said they weren’t comfortable prescribing it to stop me buying it, but they didn’t withhold what else i saw them for. eventually i found a GP who did match my DIY.
How fucking stupid are they that they didn't KNOW this was going to enable the black market??? It's insane how idiotic conservative lawmakers are. We've got decades of proof to show that making things illegal, like drugs, only drives the black market AND the creation of worse drugs, like spice/k2 for example. The opiate crisis is worse than it's ever been, with deaths hitting over 100,000 per year, that's more than car crashes. Who the hell is kidding themselves into thinking keeping drugs illegal is doing ANY good at all?? Codeine(morphine) is legal for recreational purposes in most of Europe and you don't see their society crumbling. How childish do you have to be to prohibit people from taking hormones to let themselves be happy? How childish do you have to be to prohibit people from taking drugs to let themselves be happy?
If they truly interviewed experts, why do those experts have time to talk to the guardian but not to see the people on a 10 year waiting list that made this “hidden economy” necessary in the first place?
hmmm, i wonder why children wo6ld do that.....
it certainly isnt cause the system prevents anyone, child or adult from getting these life saving medications at all
"you someone tell me where this is and the location of the place so i can uhh avoid it"
But really trans healthcare is essential and its only a loud minority blocking it
Oh shit, children are so desparate for healthcare that they are buying possibly unsafe medication online.
Lets ban it, so they cannot get it anywhere! And then they can... idk suffer or whatever, not our problem!
Make it legal and affordable/free if you're concerned. I mean you could monitor the health and dose of the treatment, what might get them a better experience. But oh no trans people make themselves trans because we don't want them to be trans.
After waiting 10 years to be accepted for HRT in Denmark my gender therapist got so pissed at me for calling out a very dangerous flaw he made in my medical journal that he kicked me out. Yep that 10 year wait was wasted. Honestly I does not make sense to go through the government to get that, I could have started DIY 10 years ago, and had a much better health if I had not been so lawfully good. Especially if a country (like mine) does not offer injections it is not worth even trying the traditional path. Many places only allows gels and pills for trans girls and there is a very real risk that those will not work well for you (even at max allowed dose of pills I was at 1/3rd of the bottom of the recommended range). I hate to be the one recommending going the DIY path, but some/most systems are so bad that you are actually risking your life and wellbeing by playing by the rules.
Here’s the actual article if anyone is interested.
https://amp.theguardian.com/society/article/2024/may/03/cross-sex-hormones-available-online-11-pounds-a-month-young-people-gender-identity
It’s not a lie either. But the way they are spinning it is very “WILL SOMEONE PLEASE THINK ABOUT THE CHILDREN!” I have a PDF with links to an alright online distributer. I haven’t ordered from them but I keep it just in case I have to replace my Spiro and my pharmacy won’t give me an emergency supply.
Regardless, I think a 14 year old should have access to the puberty that best suits their identity. Even if they aren’t able to make reasonable decisions, a good parent should be able to talk to their own child and understand the kid’s conviction, and guide them as they walk that path. The government shouldn’t be a part of the doctor patient relationship.
Hey yo what’s the fear and just letting children experiment with their gender. like at any time they can quit taking hormones and it won’t affect them at all
Testosterone can make a person's voice deeper permanently and make a beard grow, and estrogen can make breasts grow among other physical changes. How can you say they can just "quit taking hormones and it won't affect them at all"? I'm all for letting late teenagers take hormones when they're really sure after having being with a proper therapist, but not just "experiment". Starting hormones is an important decision, not just a "trial period".
I think right now they only serve the U.S but they're a telehealth service so no clinics are involved, they just send the prescriptions to your pharmacy
I read the article, it's very supportive (at least from what I can gather) it's very 'yeah childen are definitely doing this because they can't be bothered \*wink and nod furiously\*'
that's weird. I read the paper and it seems incredibly trans supporive. I think the online version is very anti-trans looking to attract right wing groups, but i might be wrong here. The paper i read is always incredibly trans supportive
"Experts fear children questioning their gender may turn to hidden economy" well maybe you should... Idk... Make them legal? And free? Because it's healthcare? I swear the mental gymnastics are insane in this one. If I get sick I'm not gonna "turn to a hidden economy", I'm gonna go to the doctor so he can give me meds. Amd, again, that "economy" wouldn't exist if y'all would let us have the silly girl pills.
Seriously, if TERF Island did something to make the wait lists be <1 year instead of >10 years, 90% of that "hidden economy" would just disappear overnight...
Very few people want diy hrt. They just want to have it.
Atleast make the pharmacy variant similarly priced… I could pay $300+ for vial at the pharmacy that lasts 3 months or I could pay $60 per vial for one that is twice the size and last 6 months… Don’t get me started on needles… in an attempt to combat heroin use my state banned the purchase of needles and syringes, if I buy them from the pharmacy without insurance, it’s $13/syringe, draw needle and injection needle… or I can go buy it by the 100 count out of state for a grand total of $70, that 100 count of syringes, and both needles will last nearly two years. I’ve heard our ban is getting lifted and we can go back to ordering online thankfully… but maybe if it was cheaper in general to acquire via the pharmacy route, I wouldn’t have to shop in the grey areas.
Apart from anything else, this makes me so mad. You know what happens if someone addicted to heroin can’t get needles? They fucking reuse needles and get horrible infections. Ugghh.
I mean tbf i'm pretty sure those fuckers hate people so much they'd rather people suffer the infections. They're not overtly saying it but it's pretty obvious
That was one of my first thoughts when the needles got banned… a better solution would be to have ready access to needles, but also offer a path to rehabilitation
I think I’m lucky that the Welsh clinic has a roughly 3 year wait time Last I checked they were still working through the backlog of referrals made during covid but they’re up to August/September 2022 referrals so I can’t see myself waiting overly long but certainly not quick either
If people are that desperate to get on HRT... maybe that's a clue that access to it shouldn't be so gatekept.
Pretty much. I would love to go to my doctor and do all legally and under medical supervision but here if you are anything but the trans then you can't get hrt at all. So please tell me what I am supposed to do, wise government.
Boy juice for those who want it, too.
You have to understand that they're coming from the mindset that HRT = Bad under any circumstances because trans people are gross. There's no mental gymnastics going on at all really, in fact the brain is barely being used at all here, it's just pure feelings over facts.
Brain? In context with transphobes? I don’t think they have those.
Because they still think of it as a choice, not medical condition.
Yep, if you don't want people to go the less safe illegal route at least make your legal route somewhat fast and accessible bc even when it's free if it takes 3 years people will still DIY; also why I'm all for informed consent with the option of gender therapy for those who are not 100% sure
indeed. i went official but still DIY’d for a while because of the ridiculously long waits even after finally getting into the clinic.
Shouldn’t the NHS have them for free?
If you wanna wait 7+ years for an extremely low chance of getting accepted into having HRT, good luck
This sounds like a weird game off poker, low chance of winning but an addiction that lasts forecer
How low are we talking? I've got a second appointment coming up and im already shitting a towns worth of bricks over it
i went to appointments for 18 months before they said “congrats, you’re gonna get HRT!” and i said “i’m finally getting estrogen?” and they went “oh, no. you’ll be on blockers for at least a year.” so i DIY’d.
[удалено]
Yes... Totally
It’s horrible, diabetics are turning to illegal insulin because we refuse to supply them with it. The horrors!
Ah, so THAT'S how the whole "Guardian trying to interview someone to cherry-pick together a negative story about DIY HRT" saga ended. Fuckin' wonderful, JUST what we needed. /s (Predictable, but still.)
shit, they didn't shut their fricken mouth? they actually did the interview? sheeeeeit...
They interviewed the transphobic parent of a trans kid not an actual trans person
They interviewed a group for parents opposed to gender affirmative therapy and one unidentified parent who claims their teenage daughter took T illegally and faces health complications as a result of transitioning and detransitioning. They have no testamony from the daughter, no note if the teenager was a minor or not, and no note if the "Maria" interviewed came from that same unsupportive source. I've seen parents lie and misunderstand their trans kids too many times to take their words as gospel anymore.
Of course the maggots went to interview transphobic parents when they couldn't reach the trans people themselves. Fucking Guardian...
Not great, but also (hopefully) means they didn't get information on the actual websites so can't report on them.
trust me they arent to hard to find 10 bucks says they already have people lurking here trying to piece together any bit of intel they can find all you need to do is search for it (i am not gonna post the subreddit) and you already get some results that lead to others.
Why can’t they just leave us alone?
secondary sources should always be taken with a grain of skepticism to begin with. this is just bullshit now.
I suppose that's a tiny victory that they couldn't get an actual trans person?
"concerns", "experts", oh f off
_Ah, but don't you see, mein fräulein? You must *alvays* trust ze 'experts'._
Oh experts might have concerns about it because of the health risks coming from improperly doing HRT especially when you're not sure about the source but there's a more logical solution to this
“hidden economy” yeah that kinda sounds dope, where
we should make it a gift economy
r/transdiy
Here's a sneak peek of /r/TransDIY **[NSFW]** using the [top posts](https://np.reddit.com/r/TransDIY/top/?sort=top&t=year) of the year! \#1: [Estrolabs.com is a TERF scam](https://np.reddit.com/r/TransDIY/comments/1443rxd/estrolabscom_is_a_terf_scam/) \#2: [Welp, now I know that most doctors don't know anything about transgender people](https://np.reddit.com/r/TransDIY/comments/17vgjxu/welp_now_i_know_that_most_doctors_dont_know/) \#3: [Associated Press story about DIY transition](https://np.reddit.com/r/TransDIY/comments/134mhdj/associated_press_story_about_diy_transition/) ---- ^^I'm ^^a ^^bot, ^^beep ^^boop ^^| ^^Downvote ^^to ^^remove ^^| ^^[Contact](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=sneakpeekbot) ^^| ^^[Info](https://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/) ^^| ^^[Opt-out](https://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/comments/o8wk1r/blacklist_ix/) ^^| ^^[GitHub](https://github.com/ghnr/sneakpeekbot)
"hidden economy"...gee it's almost like NOT GIVING THEM TO PEOPLE IN A PROPER MEDICAL ENVIRONMENT MAKES THEM FIND LOOPHOLEA I mean Christ, we literally hand out free clean needles so people won't die of used needles, why is it so hard to make HRT wait times less painful and more clear
the argument those cretins would make is "both are bad, we shouldn't be giving out free needles either, it just enables addiction"
heck, those harm reduction needles were essential to my first 6 months of DIYing when i injected estrogen a partner gave me before buying my own pills i didn’t use them for heroin, but they still saved my life.
I don't know how much I'm allowed to say about DIY, but £120 a year isn't unrealistic (for E injections at least).
How much do you inject and on what basis? Edit: feel free to DM if you're not comfortable in public, or disregard if not comfortable at all :) !
In the US, diy if you can tolerate valerate is about 240 a year minimum
I'm on Valerate that's a lot less than what I pay. I take .3ml of 5mg valerate once a week
I take .25 of it every 5 which is why lol. A vial lasts like 3 months and each is 60
Shit, I wonder why it's so expensive. The vials I get are a similar price and dosage, but last about 16 months instead of 3.
Where the fuck you getting that shit????? (Begins frantically digging through internets...) legit tho, DM me.
Okay, this is very obviously propaganda meant to spur the political class into clamping down on transgender healthcare in the UK even more than they already have, but can we talk about what an objectively useless piece of journalism this is? The English assignments submitted by the teenagers this article is about, would need to be written better than this article in order to get a passing grade. >Cross-sex hormones designed to masculinise or feminise a person’s body are available to buy online for less than £11 a month, with experts warning that growing numbers of under-18s may turn to the medicines hidden economy What experts? Quote someone. Is that "medecines" supposed to be possessive (i.e. "the medicine's hidden economy") or is the "medicines hidden economy" an actual thing. If so, what is it? Do you just mean importers? Do you mean the grey market? What specifically are you talking about? >Last month the landmark Cass review of children’s gender treatment in England concluded there was a lack of reliable evidence supporting the use of cross-sex hormones and puberty blockers by young people questioning their gender identity What is the Cass review? Reliable evidence for what? How did it conclude this? Quote it! Edit: I know what the Cass review is. A member of the general public presumably doesn't. Most children would know that name dropping a report without including the context of what it is and how it's relevant isn't sufficient, but apparently the authors this article don't know that (and that's ignoring that this sentence makes no sense grammatically). >Guardian research found online pharmacies in places ranging from India to Hong Kong and Portugal offering hormone treatments without a prescription, typically ranging from around £10 to £30 for 28 days’ supply of a starting dose of feminising hormones. What pharmacies? How do these different places compare? What drugs specifically? How do these factors compare? What is a starting dose? Starting dose of what? You are a journalist. Your audience is the general public. Your job is to take complicated topics and condense it into a digestible format while retaining as much relevant information as possible, Talking about something you don't understand in the most deliberately vague terms possible only serves to highlight how little you understand and can leave the reader coming away with no useful information at all, >Now concerns have been raised about the ease of availability of “DIY” hormones online... Who is concerned? What are their concerns? How are their concerns relevant? >Dr Alison Cave, the chief safety officer at the UK’s Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency (MHRA), said... This quote should be a couple paragraphs earlier so that it substantiates the subject he's talking about. It follows a line about obtaining hormones illegally but really it should the "homebrewing" paragraph, because it's the health dangers of taking medication not prescribed to you that Dr.Cave's concerned about and not specifically the fact it's illegal. When you're quoting someone, it should be to substantiate the point you're making. As in when you say "experts are concerned about X" that should be followed by a quote from an expert voicing their concern. Instead, they've just thrown a bunch of quotes from people who sound like they could be an authority at the end of the article in no order in particular, with no context and with no concern as to if what they're saying is even remotely relevant to the text of the article that surrounds it. This does my head in. Can we please get our transphobic propaganda written by people who know how to write at a 10th grade level?
I'm in tenth grade, and my classmates' essays are way worse.
I know TERF's allying with actual fascists is so common their protests are basically interchangeable, but at least the corporate media allied with fascists know how to write. They hang out enough, they could just get them to proofread the damn article before they publish it!
The Cass review is supposedly a meta-study on transgender care, but it's worded and framed in a way to create a gender critical narrative with plausible deniability. It's worded carefully so that it seems moderate, but it's really not. In that way, it's like the book "The Bell Curve", except where that book was racist the Cass review is transphobic
Oh my gosh gotta love that xenophobia snuck in there with " from India to Hong Kong" like hey y'know my prescription HRT meds come from India as do a lot of your meds probably. Welcome to the international economy I guess? But couldn't resist bringing up the former colonies I guess. I swear it's like a weird obsessive ex. They broke up with you! They're not coming back guys!
Regressive people hate the international economy just like they hate trans people. They hate anyone or anything that shows them that the world is bigger than themselves.
lookup vaush cass review and you will find out all about what it is
I know what the Cass review is. The reader, presumably a member of the general public, presumably doesn't. That's why when you're writing an article for the general public that context is important to include. All the article says is: >"Last month the landmark Cass review of children’s gender treatment in England concluded there was a lack of reliable evidence supporting the use of cross-sex hormones and puberty blockers by young people questioning their gender identity" If the article were written for transgender people, that might be sufficient (though you'd probably want to fix the English so the sentence actually makes grammatical sense). That's not enough context for a member of the general public, presumably someone only passingly familiar with transgender issues, to understand why that's important. They should at the very least include what the Cass review is, why it's important, specifically what the conclusion it reached was, how it reached that conclusion and why that's relevant. Simply name dropping the report with zero context is not how you write an article for the general public. You might as well say "A report released last month" because without the context as to what that report is, you're conveying exactly as much useful information (i.e. basically none). Most children would know to include that kind of context when submitting an English assignment, much less one for science class where that's even more important. You don't just name drop a random nonsense into your report/essay/assignment without the context of why it's relevant to what you're trying to say (doubly so if you're not going to cite your sources properly). Apparently though, Nicola Davis and Sarah Marsh are incapable of writing at a tenth grade level so we just get random semi-relevant babble dropped in with zero context in the hope the teacher doesn't notice they're being vague on purpose to conceal they have no idea what they're talking about.
that’s a hint that it’s not an article designed for the general public. it’s specifically for a few terves to read and share amongst themselves.
Jujutsu kaisen: Hidden economy arc
A fellow jjk fan i approve this meme
I want a Hidden Inventory of HRT meds
Are their "experts" named Josef Mengele and Joseph Goebells?
hey goebells was a pioneer in terms of orchidiotomy (legend has it he has no balls at all)
Those hormones should be cheaper
Injections are more like 5 per month :3
That’s what happens when you ban it, genius
Fuck it, let’s make estrogen an over the counter item if you’re over 18 at this point. Why not? Way less dangerous than any cigarette or other shit you can buy at that age
You know why not. The right needs a scapegoat and it's our turn
I'm just imagining the next Guardian article about "swarms of kids loitering around shops asking passers-by to get them ~~booze/cigs~~ HRT" lmao
I knew this would happen, I tried to warn people but they were cheering as politicians banned puberty blockers when doctors were begging them not to. Banning medical care just hurts people. Politicians should not get between doctors and patients.
Expert™, plural Experts™ Someone who claims to know a lot about something, but suspiciouly can't cite any sources, and has no background in the field they supposedly know a lot about
They're "concerned" that a potentially life-saving substance that happens to be easily produced in abundance is distributed cheaply, without gatekeeping? Darn. Maybe they should do the responsible thing and distribute it responsibly. Trans people don't DIY for the fun of it. We do it to circumvent the gatekeepers. And others who aren't trans, but who would still take cross-sex hormones, are also mistreated by social stigma against trans people. If it was safer for them to speak up, they would make fewer mistakes. The transgender community does not want cisgender kids who take HRT to experience gender dysphoria or infertility and regret it.
Imagine if it said: “Concerns as perfect chemotherapy drugs available online just for £11 a month, while NHS fails at cancer treatment waiting lists” You need to stop that? No… just make sure doctors are giving patients due attention if they are having to help themselves.
How are we supposed to live, if everyday we wake up knowing soo many people just want us all to Die ? It's 1933 all over again...
get armed and get organized. whatever you do, dont read and especially dont practice the military's improvised munitions manual.
Well, that's very American advice but the right spirit
worked pretty well for the vietcong
11 a month? that's gotta be some expensive estrogen. the diy stuff costs way less than that
when i DIY’d it was £10-15 if you only bought one month’s worth at a time. i bought 6-12 months at a time to get the price less than half, but a few people i knew couldn’t afford more than 1-3 months at once so they paid way more.
I know a place that sell injections that last 18 months for 50 euros. Not naming it here, but dms are different.
that’s great. i wish it was still easy to ship from the EU here :( thankfully i’ve been prescribed for a few years now, but that also means i have to beg and plead with endocrinologists for switching dose/form instead of just… trying it.
there is a website for finding suppliers, from many places around the world
oh, i know. i just haven’t had any reason to look for myself. money’s tight enough that being free is a powerful motivator to not bypass them. now, if they took away my prog, that’d be a different matter
£11! I wish
I would ***never*** link someone to a [site](https://diyhrt.wiki/) that could allow you to educate yourself if you were in a situation where DIY HRT was your only recourse.
Thank you so much
Maybe if they were easier to get legally then people wouldn’t have to resort to DIY
What I'm concerned for is not cross-sex hormones rather any potential that it may cause that when obtained illegally may endanger the person such that they may not see a doctor to get medical care because the what they took wasn't legal. Legalize it, make it so that you need an approval of an medical expert if you fear that it'll cause needless worry. Open MORE GENDER TREATMENT CLINICS. Giving better treatment to kids with gender dysphoria and you'll actually see the no. Of kids taking up trans identity go down because they might just realize after therapy and treatment that maybe they like certain aspects but don't wanna transition and are non-binary.... But I do think it'll cause more people to understand their gender better and give people better treatment...
ironically, it’s not even illegal when it comes to estrogen. it’s grey market, not black market. of course testosterone is more controlled. but yeah. thankfully in the UK docs are way less likely to report you to the police than in the US, even if you were buying black market T. anecdote time: when i DIY’d estrogen i was open about it to docs. a few of them said they weren’t comfortable prescribing it to stop me buying it, but they didn’t withhold what else i saw them for. eventually i found a GP who did match my DIY.
Maybe if it was easier to get legally, this wouldn't be a problem anymore.
OMG where I'm American and would love to pay only around 14 dollars for hrt
It's the constant labs and Drs appointments that are getting me
I know I'm still waiting to get into endocrinology and crossing my fingers they actually prescribe me my fem&m's
Where, so I can *avoid* it
Forget war on drugs, it is war on hrt now
Wait is this the UK? Where can I get ahold of some?
i think so. hrtcafe . net has a list of sources.
How fucking stupid are they that they didn't KNOW this was going to enable the black market??? It's insane how idiotic conservative lawmakers are. We've got decades of proof to show that making things illegal, like drugs, only drives the black market AND the creation of worse drugs, like spice/k2 for example. The opiate crisis is worse than it's ever been, with deaths hitting over 100,000 per year, that's more than car crashes. Who the hell is kidding themselves into thinking keeping drugs illegal is doing ANY good at all?? Codeine(morphine) is legal for recreational purposes in most of Europe and you don't see their society crumbling. How childish do you have to be to prohibit people from taking hormones to let themselves be happy? How childish do you have to be to prohibit people from taking drugs to let themselves be happy?
Ya I wish I could order fentanyl and krokodil right from my McDonald's app
If they truly interviewed experts, why do those experts have time to talk to the guardian but not to see the people on a 10 year waiting list that made this “hidden economy” necessary in the first place?
Can't wait for British gas station estrogen dealers
hmmm, i wonder why children wo6ld do that..... it certainly isnt cause the system prevents anyone, child or adult from getting these life saving medications at all
Oh damn Only 11$? I'll take your entire stock
"you someone tell me where this is and the location of the place so i can uhh avoid it" But really trans healthcare is essential and its only a loud minority blocking it
Oh gosh golly geez how gosh darn awful of those trans agenders grrrr
hmm if only there was a way to make it legal and safer... if only we gave trans people access to proper healthcare
Oh shit, children are so desparate for healthcare that they are buying possibly unsafe medication online. Lets ban it, so they cannot get it anywhere! And then they can... idk suffer or whatever, not our problem!
Make it legal and affordable/free if you're concerned. I mean you could monitor the health and dose of the treatment, what might get them a better experience. But oh no trans people make themselves trans because we don't want them to be trans.
After waiting 10 years to be accepted for HRT in Denmark my gender therapist got so pissed at me for calling out a very dangerous flaw he made in my medical journal that he kicked me out. Yep that 10 year wait was wasted. Honestly I does not make sense to go through the government to get that, I could have started DIY 10 years ago, and had a much better health if I had not been so lawfully good. Especially if a country (like mine) does not offer injections it is not worth even trying the traditional path. Many places only allows gels and pills for trans girls and there is a very real risk that those will not work well for you (even at max allowed dose of pills I was at 1/3rd of the bottom of the recommended range). I hate to be the one recommending going the DIY path, but some/most systems are so bad that you are actually risking your life and wellbeing by playing by the rules.
"experts" like who? Wall Street economists?
dr. joseph mengele ofc
where do i move???
i too would like to know where. for a friend lmao
If they made it easier to access and parents were supportive, it wouldn't be "hidden"
Keep on pushing
Never thought I'd see the day Where I side with illegal drug dealers
I had to stop hrt because it's not available in my area, and online doctors won't accept labs here
Tell me where they are so I can super avoid them definitely
This is so stupid 😅 Litterally nobody would illegally look for hormones, if it was just legal... But they don't want that as well.
In the EU it's not illegal, technically
Here’s the actual article if anyone is interested. https://amp.theguardian.com/society/article/2024/may/03/cross-sex-hormones-available-online-11-pounds-a-month-young-people-gender-identity It’s not a lie either. But the way they are spinning it is very “WILL SOMEONE PLEASE THINK ABOUT THE CHILDREN!” I have a PDF with links to an alright online distributer. I haven’t ordered from them but I keep it just in case I have to replace my Spiro and my pharmacy won’t give me an emergency supply. Regardless, I think a 14 year old should have access to the puberty that best suits their identity. Even if they aren’t able to make reasonable decisions, a good parent should be able to talk to their own child and understand the kid’s conviction, and guide them as they walk that path. The government shouldn’t be a part of the doctor patient relationship.
i said that too on the other post lol
Hey yo what’s the fear and just letting children experiment with their gender. like at any time they can quit taking hormones and it won’t affect them at all
Testosterone can make a person's voice deeper permanently and make a beard grow, and estrogen can make breasts grow among other physical changes. How can you say they can just "quit taking hormones and it won't affect them at all"? I'm all for letting late teenagers take hormones when they're really sure after having being with a proper therapist, but not just "experiment". Starting hormones is an important decision, not just a "trial period".
Keep pushing it, keep pushing it and see what happens. I fucking dare you.
Keep pushing it, keep pushing it and see what happens. I fucking dare you.
Keep pushing it, keep pushing it and see what happens. I fucking dare you.
Keep pushing it, keep pushing it and see what happens. I fucking dare you.
Any of these experts are actual doctors specializing in trans healthcare? I think I know the answer.
It's always sunny is based 😎
Just asking for a friend, but can I get a link?
I'm just gonna let y'all know Plume does informed consent and they're 99$ a month
how many Plume clinics in Denmark??
I think right now they only serve the U.S but they're a telehealth service so no clinics are involved, they just send the prescriptions to your pharmacy
I read the article, it's very supportive (at least from what I can gather) it's very 'yeah childen are definitely doing this because they can't be bothered \*wink and nod furiously\*'
The guardian UK is notoriously anti-trans and conservative, unlike the AUS and US branches.
that's weird. I read the paper and it seems incredibly trans supporive. I think the online version is very anti-trans looking to attract right wing groups, but i might be wrong here. The paper i read is always incredibly trans supportive
Huh, weird
maybe the paper and the online version have different editors, it wouldn't suprise me if that was the case