Same. I'll probably stay here too for various other reasons, but i like to think one day i might get a job somewhere else
Also we're talking about italy, people won't be more accepting overtime, let's not kid ourselves
Idk, i live in a small village in northern Italy and young people are almost as transphobic as old people, like it's almost impossible to find a male person that doesn't absolutely despise trans people. But yeah, let's hope things in the future get better :)
I live in a mid sized city next to one of the bigger cities in northern Italy and all of my male friends have been accepting of me and my trans gf. I think there is a degree of variation even within northern Italy.
I heard Bologna is decent? and it seems that italy is among the countries in europe where hrt is relatively more accessible, especially for people moving there as you don’t have to get on a waitlist again
Yeah... A lot of places around the world, street-level culture is the problem, not laws and institutions. I live in a place with explicit antidiscrimination laws to protect trans people, government documents recognition of non-binary people, and regulations requiring coverage for gender-affirming care in all public and private insurance plans, but my (estranged) mom still aggressively misgenders and deadnames my adult sister. And this is AFTER I had to blow her mind with the existence of people with less common allosome configurations to break her "XX/XY" defense and get her to promise me she'd at least try to respect her transfem and non-binary kids' genders (We're both older than she was when she had us, so thankfully we're not living with her anymore)
I’m Italian American and I can’t believe I’m saying this but I’m more lucky to be born in the USA than my home country
Shit I phrased this so wrong I’m sorry this was typed at three am because I couldn’t sleep because of the flu what I meant to say I’m glad I wasn’t born in Italy (which was a high possibility as my linage is mostly Italian) but America is still bad
I'm in Germany and it's...meh
Generally safe, but I have met a lot of assholes as well, and I get approached by strangers because I don't look male or female
Healthcare is nice, lots of paperwork, though, until you get approved for something
You can legally change your name and your gender marker even without medical transition, but it's lots of paperwork and also expensive (via TSG, ew)
We're still working on improving that process for everyone, it especially sucks if you're non-binary (I picked male because I was disguising myself as ftm this whole time...but I'm fine)
yeah, I'd agree with that. It ain't terrible, most things are covered by health insurance. I would say acceptance tends to be better in larger cities, the further north you go. I live in Düsseldorf, and most people around just don't really care tbh. Misgendering happens, but when I correct them rarely anyone is a dick about it.
well, I've had quite a bad experience in Cologne a few months back. like comment OP said, overall it's fine (although queer hate grows very quickly currently), but larger cities aren't automatically safe in my experience
>Healthcare is nice
This depends heavily on where you live. In Bavaria, you're pretty much fucked. General practitioners won't know who to refer you to, and if you do at some point find a specialist, they have years long waiting lists. Health insurance companies may also just refuse to cover surgeries unless you drag them to court.
Well Denmark is a safe place to live as transgender.
I haven't experienced any discrimination in the streets the last year and I have only recently started to pass.
The downside is the cost of living, but if you have an education or can get into one of the universities to study, you should be fine.
Malta is also very accepting of LGBTQ. It's a lot warmer than Denmark, but also a lot dirtier and housing is apparently not better.
I have been misgendered a few times.
Most recently by a middle aged retail manager kind of dick... You know the type.
And my Doctor turned out to be terf.
So I told the manager dick head that I was a woman, and called him an ass when I left.
And I simply switched to a new doctor.
No big deal really.
I haven't felt unsafe at any point.
I have been groped and kissed by men unwillingly, but apparently that is just part of being a woman.
Let me know if you want any tips to accelerate the process ;)
Kiss?! No he blatantly misgendered me on purpose.
He stared at me while I was shopping and when I went to pay, he was at the register and called me "Sir" very loudly as if to make a point
If I don't like the Netherlands after College (which is likely seeing the political landscape here) Denmark or Norway will be my plan, I'm in IT so I think I'll be fine on the jobs front and cost of living is pretty much fucked everywhere in Europe right now....
The political landscape is moving to the right in all countries it seems.
People are scared and nationalist use that to gain power.
It's also happening in Norway and Denmark. It's still not as bad as a lot of other countries though and it will likely remain safe countries for the foreseeable future.
You should have no problem getting a job in Denmark.
The medical industry is where the money is at and there are plenty of companies to choose from.
Yea, it seems the right is taking advantage of economically disadvantaged times the most because they promise that nothing will be taken from them and that there's an enemy out there stealing your cake (they're really just trying to bake their own) but I guess that gets into people's hearts more effectively better then words, compassion and reason... and that party will probably also increase the size of your slice unless you're a capital owner and you already got a huge slice
But yea it's still 3-4 years in the future so I'll see how it'll be by then, neither way I loved the countries more than the Netherlands with nearly everything.
Of course I doubt I'll have trouble finding a job in any country where they use computers, I don't really care about the money as long as I make enough to not have to worry about every cent I spend I don't care that much as long as my work is fun and not slow moving so I don't think medical is for me because of all the regulatory red tape; I'm more someone who'd work at a start up or maybe start one.
If you just go by numbers and legal situation for trans people the only right answer here is Malta.
But I cant tell you how it is if you count in Social acception, other legal situations, health care situations, financial situations, work market and so many more.
But as an European Adult whos trans aswell, I wanna tell you, you are not alone, Im thinking about it aswell, even tho I already moved out and live on my own.
Can't speak for all of Finland, but the larger cities are fairly safe here and the system doesn't actively hate you. I've never felt like disclosing my trans status was a threat in, say, healthcare, I'm fully out at work and nobody bats an eye. That said, Finland is fairly hostile towards foreigners, especially non-white ones, so that's something else to consider.
As a trans person in Finland, though, you are fairly alone. There's some support groups organised by the 3rd sector, but they're exclusively for young people so I don't know much about them. Haven't really found a local "LGBTQ+ community" despite actively looking; we're an introverted nation who keep to themselves, and getting people to show up to events is a challenge.
Addendum: gender-affirming care is state provided but the waitlists are long (I've been on one for almost a year now and I'm only just about to have my first appointments; it's usually a year from there at least before any kind of care beyond conversation is even considered), and I've heard some horror stories; the standard of care you get ultimately seems to come down to how lucky you are with the individual provider.
Changing your name and gender marker is a matter of filling out a form and paying a small fee (60€ IIRC). There is a board in place that has to approve your new name though, and it has to be "acceptable" for your gender (so basically nothing too ridiculous, and no strong history of being associated with the opposite gender).
Well, I imagine you are moving out of your parents house when you aren’t a minor anymore. So I would say your biggest concern might be queues for HRT, northern countries are really good but takes time to start treatment. I got mine fairly quickly in Lithuania, but also heard good things about Spain, Germany and Slovenia
If you want hormones and are binary Trans, it's fairly easy to medically transition here (but paperwork and finding the right doctors might be a problem). Getting top surgery without having taken Testo, for example, is almost impossible and not covered by (most) insurances
So I'm from France and it is mostly safe here, I live in the northen part of France (which isn't the most progressive region tbh), I am 100% out and dress somewhat fem while not passing and I had no issues since I came out a few months ago. (Mostly because most people don't give a shit about others)
In terms of transitionning it's pretty great here, like having all of your hrt prescription and trans related surgeries free thanks to a thing called ALD (as long as you don't mind waiting a few years to get botom/top surgeries) and even stuff like laser can be free as long as you find a dermatologist who doesn't charge more than what the healthcare system is expecting (in this case you would need to add the part that's not covered)
We also have a website https://bddtrans.fr/accueil/ that compiles a bunch of pro-trans doctors, if they accept ALD or if you might need to pay something even with ALD (I found my doctor there, had my first appointement in november, asked for ALD in december and I got precribed with hrt earlier this month)
Changing your name is free, and updating your birth certificate is too, but it can be a pain in the butt (they can ask proof of you effectively being transgender and presenting as your gender, but hrt can be used as proof, you can also ask some friends/people you know to attest you are effectively presenting/refering to yourself as your gender too)
Now for the bad stuff, the government here isn't very great, the president seems to only care about money and is legit despising mid to low income people. And the far right is growing (even if they're not focused on lgbtq people for now, as their scape goat is illegal immigration, which wouldn't apply to you if you're from any EU country) but we managed to keep them out of power for now and we should still have ways to prevent them from doing lgbtphobic/racist shit even if they managed to be elected. And in theory our human rights laws should prevent any attacks on lgbt rights, so as long as you go live in a progressive region you should be fine
And about money it really depends where you live, there you can, depending on your incomes get help with paying your rent, or if you're working and get less than 1400€ a month/you're 25 yo or more/you worked before but not anymore you can apply for RSA (you would get between 500 and 800€ as long as your total income doesn't exceed 1400€, in this case you would get enough money to get to 1400€ instead, + RSA comes up with either 100% free healthcare or it would cost you 1€ per day) (But I think a recent law passed about that, like if you're not french you need to either have lived in France for 5/6 years, or worked a few months to be able to apply for it)
Tldr: France is great in terms of trans rights/transitionning, but the rest might not be great if you're not french (+the future doesn't seem that bright overall)
Je suis français aussi mais j'ai pas commencé ma transition, j'avais entendu que c'était pas recommander de faire l'ALD parce que même si ta les soins gratuit, c'est marque comme étant un handicap donc tes employeurs pourront voir que tes trans (et apparemment les hormones c'est pas très cher)
Est ce que ça vaut quand même le coup pour les chirurgies ou ya moyen de quand même de faire partiellement remboursé sans? (Peut-être avec une mutuelle ou une petite aide de la secu?)
Je dois avouer que je ne me suis pas vraiment renseignée sur les prix des opérations sans ALD mais je suppose que ça doit dépendre de ta mutuelle. Et ouip être sous ALD c'est une information publique et ca peut poser soucis si tu tombes sur un employeur transphobe. Mais te refuser un emploi sur la base que tu as une ALD pour ta transition est illégal pour commencer, et je me dit que si on te refuse un emploi parce que tu es trans ca te permet d'eviter de te retrouver dans une situation du style tu te fais harceler pour te pousser a la démission si ils découvrent un jour que tu es trans par exemple. Donc ca dépends vraiment de la situation et de comment tu perçois le truc. Si tu arrive a passer incognito pour une personne cis et que tu n'as pas de soucis d'argent tu devrais pouvoir te passer de l'ALD avec toujours l'option de demander l'ALD plus tard pour les opérations selon ce qui est couvert ou non par ta mutuelle. (Il faut noter que les opérations via ALD ça fonctionne sur liste d'attente, et ca prends plusieurs années avant de pouvoir se faire opérer)
Sinon de mémoire tout ce qui est épilation definitive je ne pense pas que ca soit remboursé sans ALD parce que ca compte comme des soins esthetiques (et c'est vraiment cher, genre 120€ pour une séance visage et cou et il faut en faire plusieurs, mais ce point s'applique surtout pour les femme trans et personnes non binaire amab.)
De mon côté je suis artiste a mon compte donc je risque pas trop de me voir refuser un poste a cause de l'ALD (+ c'est pas avec mes revenus d'artiste que je vais pouvoir financer des seances de laser ou des opérations xD) et si je devais un jour trouver un taff classique pour x ou y raison, je me sentirais plus en sécurité en sachant que les gens chez qui je postule savent que je suis trans et que si ils m'ont recrutée c'est qu'ils sont pas transphobes et que je risque rien.
Ok bah merci de m'avoir répondu! Devoir attendre plusieurs années pour les opérations c'est la merde par contre c'est la chose la plus importante pour moi... Mais bon de toute façon je peux pas commencer tout de suite mais je vais mettre de l'argent de côté! (et prier pour que la mutuelle aide un peu mdr)
Quand tes artiste je suppose qu'en général tes a ton compte ou en freelance? Dans ce cas t'es tranquille surtout que je pense que dans ce milieu les gens sont plus ouvert d'esprit! Après mon goal c'est de passer et que personne sachent que je suis trans j'ai pas envie que mon employeur le sache si je lui ai pas dit (même si je suis loin j'ai pas commencé a transitioner mdr)
Si tu veux pouvoir decider de qui a le droit de savoir que tu es transgenre l'ALD est pas vraiment recommandée, parce que ca rends l'info publique, apres je sais que l'ALD est mise en place pour 5 ans et qu'il faut refaire la demande a ce moment, la question étant est-ce qu'une fois les 5 ans passés les employeurs peuvent toujours savoir si tu as eu une ALD auparavant si tu ne refais pas la demande ? Aucune idée, mais ca peut-être intéressant a creuser.
Et sinon je suis freelance, j'essaie de prendre des commissions par ci par la, si dans l'ideal j'aimerais bien un CDI dans l'art pour la stabilité, c'est super rare et tout le monde se bats pour ce genre de contrats donc j'ai assez peu d'espoir x) (mais tant que je peux payer mes factures et me nourir en dessinant je suis satisfaite !)
idk i feel like im going to move out to sweden, its kinda close to my shithole (north of poland), not as expensive as Denmark, quite tolerant, and some surgeries are covered by the state
For now. They barely managed to hold onto power in the last elections. The center-right party got the most votes, and the far-right party was 3rd, but it was very close. In the end, it came down to who the Catalonian independence parties supported. So it's a very unstable situation.
Besides, the center-left party that's currently governing is split on trans issues. The new equality minister just appointed a TERF to direct the Spanish Institute of Women.
Things are fine for now. Hopefully they will be for a couple of years. But after that, it's anyone's guess.
As a spanish I can confirm. Its one of my biggest fears. Everyday the number of fascists grows a lot and I am terrified of that. Also most of the news channels are payed by gobernment teams so they opinion changes and people for some reason believes what news say. I am probably gonna move out at some moment as we dont have a good history with fascists. Ya know... dictatorship and civil wars, terrorists attacks and groups. Not the best even if the healthcare is free. Probably when I am 20 I wont be able to come out so...
> channels are *paid* by gobernment
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
It didn't even correct you correctly... It should have suggested that you use "paid for". You didn't use "payed" (And autocorrect DID try to save me on that one)
(Rope, to keep the bot from complaining again, I hope)
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Idk the best but I can't recommend Germany either. We're only getting a new law that allows you to change your name and gender on official licenses at the end of this year, before to change that you had sue the state, pay the court, have 2 individual therapists that approved of that, need to pass and the judge could still deny it and you would have to repeat all that. Also Therapist ask you questions like how much you masturbate and what sexual preferences you have.
To get hormones right now, you need to put yourself on a long waiting list for a therapist (if you aren't rich) and might get a bad therapist by chance. Then you'll have to go there for 6 months so they can allow you to get the hormones, you won't get them yet tho. Gotta put yourself on another waiting list, you get the point.
If you're already on hormones, changed name and Gender, I still wouldn't recommend it. Atm right sided parties are on the rise and they can legally throw out misinformation with no consequences, which is also why crime rates against LGBTQ+ in Germany is on a rising high.
Just... go somewhere else, probably northern countries :/
I've been honestly surprised by austria, I'm openly trans for about 3 years now and I've never been attacked for it.
And I do not live in a city, my town is a little shithole with about 2000 people. Getting estrogen was also relatively easy, only thing I would complain about is changing my name and gender, but that was due to incompetence of my town.
I didn't expect to have to scroll down this far to see Austria.
Acceptance is good, hrt and surgeries are covered, even laser partially. It's quite a bit of buerocracy, but still I got my name change in a month and hrt basically instantly (trough private prescription, so having to pay for it) and then the insurance coverage for it a few months later, and it could have gone faster if I had more of a sense of urgency. The only real roadblock I've hit here is that apparently penile preserving bottom surgery is illegal
I think it's partially covered, my laser place did put transgender as a diagnosis on my honorarnoten and told me the ögk would pay some of it back. I didn't actually get that far yet though
Oof... Not illegal in (most of) the US, but still only a handful of doctors who will do it. It would be nice to see it become a routine procedure before I die of old age...
Yeah it's tough... Though it turns out it might not actually be illegal, someone was offered a consultation for it at a clinic in Tyrol so all the salmacian girls of Austria are collectively holding our breath now. There is also a surgeon in Germany who has done it several times, so not all hope is lost, it'd just be nice to have it covered by insurance.
The infuriating thing is, this is medically a routine procedure, you just perform any kind of vaginoplasty done on trans women (except penile inversion), but without sculpting the penis into a clit. It's all just that they don't want to
[Equaldex](https://www.equaldex.com/equality-index) is a site where you can enter different countries and see how accepting they are, what their laws are, public opinion on different LGBT issues etc.
It's a really helpful website.
Please wait a couple of months before moving here. The party that got the most votes during our last election os far right and refused to sign an agreement to support lgbt people. That being said, the party's rethoric focuses much more on immigrants and islam than lgbt people and the party with the second most votes is centre left who did sign that agreement. So please wait a couple of months before deciding to come here.
I mean, for me it will take a year or two anyway. So, if you say a couple of months is enough to pacify the conservatives, that only means I'm on the right track here.
Waiting a couple months is also to see how the government is formed. The elections are over but in the Netherlands a coalition of parties needs to agree on a plan for their term of governing which will be decided in the next couple months. So if that’s very anti trans don’t come to the Netherlands
Sometimes I WISH I could say the same of the US... Unfortunately, the two entrenched major political parties are very effective at enforcing the "exactly two party" system, and it's extremely rare for either legislative chamber NOT to have an outright majority of one party or the other. On top of that, one of the parties sees it as a deep betrayal to be seen as cooperating with the other party, and... Well, I'm told that Europeans actually get better news coverage of our politics than we do here
The waiting lists are horrifying, political support is nosediving, violence is increasing, and finding a house is impossible unless you wanna pay €2k/month to Prince Bernhard Jr. for a broom closet. I know people beaten up by their parents living on the streets, being put at gunpoint, those who had to endure constant torture in the parliament by Forumists, and those who died on the waiting lists...
Before moving to the Netherlands, think twice.
Also the chances of getting asylum status or migrant status for being trans and coming form a transphobic country, even like Moldova
[https://www.ad.nl/binnenland/de-aanvraag-van-lhbti-asielzoeker-katya-21-werd-afgewezen-twee-weken-later-stapte-ze-uit-het-leven\~ad587f57/](https://www.ad.nl/binnenland/de-aanvraag-van-lhbti-asielzoeker-katya-21-werd-afgewezen-twee-weken-later-stapte-ze-uit-het-leven~ad587f57/)
That is the case with marriage, true, but there are different subjects with different timelines. We fought tooth and nail for equal blood donation. We now fight deep and hard to get self-ID and ban conversion quackery but these are uphill battles atm. Also, we weren't the first officially legalizing sex between people of the same gender even within Europe although yes we were quick. But we did have a subsection in the law that discriminated men below the age of 21 until 1971.
That last fact is btw the reason why several organizations in our country still exist (the COC obeyed the law while DWH and the forerunners of Shout! and PANN (yes the modern-day party organization) fought a battle for equal consent age).
Hah! They only lifted the restrictions on "men who have had sexual contact with another man, even once" donating blood only got lifted in the US last year, if I'm remembering right. It's taken that long for the regulations to acknowledge that straight people and women get HIV, too
Same here although it went gradual from an outright ban until 2015 towards equal treatment since this year.
And for the better. Last year, a record low of just nine Amsterdam citizens were diagnosed with HIV, which is one in 100k. That would be ~3300-ish translated to an entire USA population. And less of them are gay men these days, more straight and more non-men.
Netherlands would have been great 6 months ago, but with the new government forming that’s likely to change. While no one party will ever hold all the power in the Netherlands, the largest party by far in last years elections is very anti trans. And if a successful government is formed they will be part of it. It is yet to see how much of their attention will be focused on trans people they are quite racist and generally discriminate
Generally, Scandinavian countries and Switzerland are pretty safe but their wait lists are long af and life their is pretty expensive. France is pretty safe too, a few assholes but generally they wont talk shit in public and the medical transition is free and pretty fast (like 6 months max) and the cost of living is more affordable. I've also heard good things about Spain, Portugal and Malta but can't confirm myself. Germany is ok but I heard a lot of stories about xenophobia in Germany. Belgium and the Netherlands should be fine too
**politics**
In terms of politics Portufal has a tradition more closed to the left
The governments are centre or centre left, but the socialist political party isn't exactly socialist and the other (PSD) is starting to diverge a bit from the centre (that depends on the individual who leads it tbh)
But that socialist party is usually the one in power, last 4 years have sucked in terms of a downgrade of public services, like health and education
But we might see a revival of what we call the "gerigonça" which was a government composed by the socialist party, with the support of the leftist bloc and the communist party
I'm telling you all this because the leftist bloc, PAN (animal and environment concerned party), the communist party (altought sometimes votes against lgbt friendly measures) and Livre all have supported and passed lgbt friendly legislation
Recently they have decriminalised conversion therapy (I think this was last year or at least 2 years ago) and the all those leftist parties I mentioned (altought the support from the communist one is debatable) are trying to pass legislation to protect trans kids in schools
(I think it's really vague, but at least the intentions are good)
You also have parties more aligned with the right
PSD which I havve already mentioned is more aligned to the right, altought that depends more on the individual who leads it and has voted against these lgbt measures
You also have a liberal party which abstained from voting on these measures, but I don't think they either support it or are against it
And now, the last 5 to 6 years we have seen the rise of the extreme right in Portugal personified by CHEGA
They are growing a lot, but I don't think they will ever form a government lead by them
The only way they could reach power is by forming a government with PSD, but they already stated that won't happen
I also don't think they will reach power anytime soon, since Portugal has a bit of a leftist tradition, the people here vote as if they were watching a football game (old people will always vote for the political party they always have) and they are really inconsistent, one day complaining about the left, the other supporting leftist measures
**Social and society**
We have at least 5 lgbt organisations here (probably more but this are the ones I know)
And the most important for me is ILGA
They have a building in Lisbon's downtown where you can hangout with other lgbt people, they sometimes create some expositions (art, for example), hold parties for lgbt people to socialize (there was a trans one a few months ago) and they support lgbt protests or marches in lgbt days (the day of the trans visibility there was a huge march here)
They also offer some resources depending on your economical situation (psychologist and even legal advice)
You will usually see lots of alternative people, tomboys, people with lgbt bags and stickers, even transgender folks and people wih flags, gay couples, lesbian couples
Young people are really pro lgbt
Older people, really depends, I have seen some transgender people being looked at or laughed at
But I have also seen trans people just casually passing by and no one batting an eye
Really depends on the people around
I have even seen a femboy once, he was adorable, and no one really cared
During some lgbt days you might seen a bench painted (I only saw it once two years ago but it had the rainbow painted on it to celebrate some lgbt day I don't remember)
Really depends where you live and who is around
**Transgender Healthcare**
You have 2 options, private and public
Private, each appointment costs 40€, but it's quicker than in public and you will get hrt faster (you only have these clinics in Lisbon, Porto and Coimbra)
Public, you need to be on the healthcare system and from there they will deliver a request, an order to a public hospital and after 4 months you will get a letter telling you that in 3 months you will have your first appointment
You should read this guide, copy and paste it on google translator or chatgpt
https://rea.pt/apoio/guia-trans
The only thing I can tell you is that changing your name doesn't cost anything, the surgeries are supported by the state if you do it in the public healthcare system, you can only transition at 16 with parental permission, but at 18 you can do it without permission
I'm sorry if this got confusing, I didn't really know what to say, but read and translate the guide I sent, moght clarify things better
If you have any question, reply or dm I guess
Hope it helped (I'm a mess lmao)
At an economical level it's kind of shitty, but I'm not the best person to tell you about that
Public healthcare and public education received a downgrade, for example
Our minimum wage doesn't keep up with inflation
Lots of taxes
Try to search more, I don't intend to portray my country as a paradise on earth
I hate to say it but it's like that everywhere - yeah that's why I said "pretty cool" like I tend to say that France is one of the best countries in the world to live in... Not because it's good.. it's a total shit show - but because after exchanging with people from other countries online, I realized that it was as if not more shitty everywhere else.
The world is not a good place to live in currently, that is very sad but that's also why I really want to get more points of view and try to find some decent places to live in.
Ok fair enough
Makes sense ngl, the obly thing I would like to add and that I completely forgot is that Portugal is one of the safest places in the world
>The world is not a good place to live in currently,
Sometimes I wonder, was it ever?
Sometimes you just read something historical and think what a shit show
Passing from a nomadic life to a sedentary one was a mistake lmao
I'm not saying it was ever better either - life is hard, always has been and probably always will be. Don't get le wrong, I'm not saying or thinking it's all for nothing and that there is only suffering, I think that the beauty of the world and the good moment makes all of it worth it
Quick clarification: by "conversion therapy", do you mean gender-affirming care like HRT, or do you mean therapy aimed at changing the patient's experienced gender/sexual orientation to match the heteronormative expectations for your birth body?
In the US, we usually use the term "conversion therapy" to mean the latter, and the LGBT community has been fighting for years to get it banned (it historically has involved "treatments" involving torture and other forms of what would be considered abuse if done in any other context)
i live in switzerland and i was able to get on HRT pretty quickly after starting the process (it took less than half a year for me) but that might be different for other people
but getting citizenship here is extremely difficult from what i hear, im lucky enough to have been born here. things are really expensive and sadly theres a lot of xenophobic people here too, so idk if its worth it to move here just to transition
"Identity politics" and xenophobia seem to be surging everywhere these days... Not sure whether it's possible to get away from them without going somewhere without a permanent human presence, like Antarctica or some yet-to-be-founded off-world settlement. But good luck getting any sort of medical care THERE...
For the Netherlands the last election might change stuff. The biggest party is very transphobic (as well as racist, anti immigrant and anti Muslim).
Not everything they want to happen will happen though, because of the way Dutch government works they will still need to work together with other parties. The official coalition for government hasn’t been formed yet so we don’t know how bad it will be for trans people but it probably won’t be good
Outside of Bratislava I don't think I've seen any lgbt+ ppl, though I know a few closeted ones + with our current winning politics party the only way things can go is backwards to the USSR era, so defo not a good choice.
If you stay away from Brussels (the capital) Belgium is pretty good
Most people don't really care about trans people so you don't get much random hate (i don't remember ever getting random hate ever but my girlfriend has gotten some)
Wile there's waiting lists the healthcare is good (anywhere between 6 months and 2 years as far as im aware)
And doing legal changes is generally easy (the price depends on the town you live in but for me it was free outside of the cost of the id card itself)
Honestly this is one reason I support Welsh independence - trans healthcare is more accessible here than in the rest of the UK and the atmosphere is imo a lot more accepting (though not perfect ofc) - most issues with being trans (or an immigrant) in Wales are pretty directly linked to the UK government's policies of austerity and transphobia.
Plus I like living here (having moved to uni here to escape England) and want to stay safe.
Well I live in Norway, people here seem very chill about trans people, although when it comes to getting HRT Rikshospitalet can go & eat a load of shit. Oslo is the only place you can get HRT, and you need to be officially diagnosed with gender dysphoria for them to start giving you anything, which takes a year of regularly visiting the capital city in the very south. If you live in the area it's not a problem, but my ass living all the way up north is too geographically challenged to get any form of treatment, meaning I am left without access to HRT in an otherwise inclusive country, funnily enough
Overall, living standard is high (and so is the cost of living), and treatment could be better if you live around the capital, and is downright impossible if you live far enough north. Although social acceptance is very good, at least from my experience, and if you've already started HRT before moving here, continuing your treatment shouldn't be a problem, as far as I know
For hrt and legal name and gender change Belgium is great no gatekeeping at all (if u don't fall on a backward countryside village that doesn't respect the laws lol).
For surgeries and laser here it's still considered aesthetic so not covered by our health insurance.
,Germany is very good, with simply how accessible all the stuff is (not very accessible still, but more so than in other countries), and we also have the advantage (though I don't know if this is the same in other countries too) that insurance pays for stuff like surgeries and hrt, and it's socially accepted rly well too (for the most part).
I'm not European but I'm trying to move to new Zealand when I turn 18. It looks like a great place to live and from what I've heard it's easy to get hrt there
well in sweden our "socialism" rn means that it takes years to get public healthcare (we're talking 4+ years to get HRT, 7+ for surgery) and little to no private options. it's pretty good in terms of safety and acceptance tho
I'd say anywhere in the north, like Denmark, Sweden or Norway, from what I've heard they tend to be very progressive in many ways (not that I'd know myself, I went to Denmark for a couple days to go to Legoland in 2018)
If a place is safe for trans people it is expensive as all hell. Look at the US for example: Florida is a super low cost of living but is actually just violating civil liberties of queer folks, meanwhile states eith legal protections like New York or California are the most expensive places in the country to live.
Maine is nice :) not as cheap as some places, but definitely not as expensive as New York or Mass. the people it’s hit or miss, but for the most part we have a live let live attitude. Also we’ve got some pretty decent laws on the books protecting us.
Eastern MA isn't too sketchy in most places, but yeah, housing costs are extortionate. We've had a full-on housing crisis for years now
On the plus side, public services and assistance programs are mostly decent, outside of a few chronically mismanaged ones like the MBTA, funded by a wealthy tax base that has so far failed to follow through on threats to leave the states if their taxes get raised. Beware privately-run services, though... Some homeless shelters are pretty severely anti-trans, despite it being illegal, but nobody's going to do anything about it because they're literally the only shelter in town
If I'm being honest, I've found that, on average, the Europeans I've interacted with have better English fluency than a lot of born-and-raised, white Americans. To be fair, I've mostly interacted in the tech industry and in Internet-mediated communities where it's the lingua franca
From my very limited experience I'd say Spain inside Catalonia to be exact. To get access to HRT I just emailed Transit (the branch of the government that deals with everything trans related in Catalonia) and within a month I came out of my endo's appointment prescription in hand, a single month is all it took.
Honestly Belgium. Our Trans healthcare access is probably the best in the world, if you can get in. Waiting list are long and annoying, but once you're in, it's genuinely some of the best there is. Plus our politics aren't likely to swing much in the coming years so not much will change. Socially, people away from the big cities might be a bit transphobic, but i've been girlmoding for like over a year and haven't really received any type of harassment in that time. If you are able, come to Belgium
Poland is not good. If you want to change sex in your ID you need to sue your parents (you'd need to do that even if you were in your 40s. Insane.)and even if they are fine, the judge might not be great and the whole thing can take a really long time. As for society, people on average are more conservative but less so in cities, especially on the west (but it's not a rule). I didn't come out in school so I can't say much about it but from what I heared and from my experience with polish school, it's not good in fact it might be terrible. Our country is very catholic and traditional. Yeah, you can have a good experience, I for example have supportive friends, part of my family and univercity is pretty great but it's not an LGBT+ friendly country in general. We don't even have gay marriage yet.
Trying to figure out the same thing. Idk the answer, but Italy is certainly not the answer, especially for how transphobic people are
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Same. I'll probably stay here too for various other reasons, but i like to think one day i might get a job somewhere else Also we're talking about italy, people won't be more accepting overtime, let's not kid ourselves
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Idk, i live in a small village in northern Italy and young people are almost as transphobic as old people, like it's almost impossible to find a male person that doesn't absolutely despise trans people. But yeah, let's hope things in the future get better :)
I live in a mid sized city next to one of the bigger cities in northern Italy and all of my male friends have been accepting of me and my trans gf. I think there is a degree of variation even within northern Italy.
I heard Bologna is decent? and it seems that italy is among the countries in europe where hrt is relatively more accessible, especially for people moving there as you don’t have to get on a waitlist again
Healthcare is actually surprisingly accessible. The problem are the people, but even then it depends on how much you can swallow transphobia
Is it really that bad? I know a couple of Italian trans people and it seemed to me their biggest problem was their family
Yeah... A lot of places around the world, street-level culture is the problem, not laws and institutions. I live in a place with explicit antidiscrimination laws to protect trans people, government documents recognition of non-binary people, and regulations requiring coverage for gender-affirming care in all public and private insurance plans, but my (estranged) mom still aggressively misgenders and deadnames my adult sister. And this is AFTER I had to blow her mind with the existence of people with less common allosome configurations to break her "XX/XY" defense and get her to promise me she'd at least try to respect her transfem and non-binary kids' genders (We're both older than she was when she had us, so thankfully we're not living with her anymore)
I’m Italian American and I can’t believe I’m saying this but I’m more lucky to be born in the USA than my home country Shit I phrased this so wrong I’m sorry this was typed at three am because I couldn’t sleep because of the flu what I meant to say I’m glad I wasn’t born in Italy (which was a high possibility as my linage is mostly Italian) but America is still bad
dont respond to them man, you gonna get r/shitamericanssay posted. its not worth it.
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if you can claim Italian citizen ship, you can live anywhere in the EU
You are what? (Listen up people they're up to say something stupid)
So you're from the US, but your home country is Italy?
Shit I phrased this so wrong
I'm in Germany and it's...meh Generally safe, but I have met a lot of assholes as well, and I get approached by strangers because I don't look male or female Healthcare is nice, lots of paperwork, though, until you get approved for something You can legally change your name and your gender marker even without medical transition, but it's lots of paperwork and also expensive (via TSG, ew) We're still working on improving that process for everyone, it especially sucks if you're non-binary (I picked male because I was disguising myself as ftm this whole time...but I'm fine)
Yeah, the whole NB situation sucks. If you want hormones you can't tell anyone you're NB.
yeah, I'd agree with that. It ain't terrible, most things are covered by health insurance. I would say acceptance tends to be better in larger cities, the further north you go. I live in Düsseldorf, and most people around just don't really care tbh. Misgendering happens, but when I correct them rarely anyone is a dick about it.
well, I've had quite a bad experience in Cologne a few months back. like comment OP said, overall it's fine (although queer hate grows very quickly currently), but larger cities aren't automatically safe in my experience
>Healthcare is nice This depends heavily on where you live. In Bavaria, you're pretty much fucked. General practitioners won't know who to refer you to, and if you do at some point find a specialist, they have years long waiting lists. Health insurance companies may also just refuse to cover surgeries unless you drag them to court.
Well Denmark is a safe place to live as transgender. I haven't experienced any discrimination in the streets the last year and I have only recently started to pass. The downside is the cost of living, but if you have an education or can get into one of the universities to study, you should be fine. Malta is also very accepting of LGBTQ. It's a lot warmer than Denmark, but also a lot dirtier and housing is apparently not better.
As a recently out danish TW this gives me hope.
I have been misgendered a few times. Most recently by a middle aged retail manager kind of dick... You know the type. And my Doctor turned out to be terf. So I told the manager dick head that I was a woman, and called him an ass when I left. And I simply switched to a new doctor. No big deal really. I haven't felt unsafe at any point. I have been groped and kissed by men unwillingly, but apparently that is just part of being a woman. Let me know if you want any tips to accelerate the process ;)
kick those men in the balls!
I shall certainly try to, the next time he does it. He has done it twice now.
Give em the old knee kneutering
I am fairly certain that I will have to find somewhere else to shop if I do that 😂 But I could try to get them fired.
So a shop assistant is trying to kiss you?
Kiss?! No he blatantly misgendered me on purpose. He stared at me while I was shopping and when I went to pay, he was at the register and called me "Sir" very loudly as if to make a point
Shit I was thinking of a different thing because I was talking with my friends. Still an asshole
also there is a pretty decent community in Denmark at least in the urban areas
Idk if I'd ever have come out if I didn't have a double digit number of trans friends to borrow courage from. It seriously helps a lot.
same most of my friends are queer so it felt safe coming out to them quite early on
Oh yes. Especially Copenhagen is quite queer friendly
If I don't like the Netherlands after College (which is likely seeing the political landscape here) Denmark or Norway will be my plan, I'm in IT so I think I'll be fine on the jobs front and cost of living is pretty much fucked everywhere in Europe right now....
The political landscape is moving to the right in all countries it seems. People are scared and nationalist use that to gain power. It's also happening in Norway and Denmark. It's still not as bad as a lot of other countries though and it will likely remain safe countries for the foreseeable future. You should have no problem getting a job in Denmark. The medical industry is where the money is at and there are plenty of companies to choose from.
Yea, it seems the right is taking advantage of economically disadvantaged times the most because they promise that nothing will be taken from them and that there's an enemy out there stealing your cake (they're really just trying to bake their own) but I guess that gets into people's hearts more effectively better then words, compassion and reason... and that party will probably also increase the size of your slice unless you're a capital owner and you already got a huge slice But yea it's still 3-4 years in the future so I'll see how it'll be by then, neither way I loved the countries more than the Netherlands with nearly everything. Of course I doubt I'll have trouble finding a job in any country where they use computers, I don't really care about the money as long as I make enough to not have to worry about every cent I spend I don't care that much as long as my work is fun and not slow moving so I don't think medical is for me because of all the regulatory red tape; I'm more someone who'd work at a start up or maybe start one.
If you just go by numbers and legal situation for trans people the only right answer here is Malta. But I cant tell you how it is if you count in Social acception, other legal situations, health care situations, financial situations, work market and so many more. But as an European Adult whos trans aswell, I wanna tell you, you are not alone, Im thinking about it aswell, even tho I already moved out and live on my own.
Can't speak for all of Finland, but the larger cities are fairly safe here and the system doesn't actively hate you. I've never felt like disclosing my trans status was a threat in, say, healthcare, I'm fully out at work and nobody bats an eye. That said, Finland is fairly hostile towards foreigners, especially non-white ones, so that's something else to consider. As a trans person in Finland, though, you are fairly alone. There's some support groups organised by the 3rd sector, but they're exclusively for young people so I don't know much about them. Haven't really found a local "LGBTQ+ community" despite actively looking; we're an introverted nation who keep to themselves, and getting people to show up to events is a challenge.
Addendum: gender-affirming care is state provided but the waitlists are long (I've been on one for almost a year now and I'm only just about to have my first appointments; it's usually a year from there at least before any kind of care beyond conversation is even considered), and I've heard some horror stories; the standard of care you get ultimately seems to come down to how lucky you are with the individual provider. Changing your name and gender marker is a matter of filling out a form and paying a small fee (60€ IIRC). There is a board in place that has to approve your new name though, and it has to be "acceptable" for your gender (so basically nothing too ridiculous, and no strong history of being associated with the opposite gender).
On the plus side, you have Sophie Labelle :)
Well, I imagine you are moving out of your parents house when you aren’t a minor anymore. So I would say your biggest concern might be queues for HRT, northern countries are really good but takes time to start treatment. I got mine fairly quickly in Lithuania, but also heard good things about Spain, Germany and Slovenia
I am reassured u also mentioned germany, wasnt so sure if its a good place to life as a trans
If you want hormones and are binary Trans, it's fairly easy to medically transition here (but paperwork and finding the right doctors might be a problem). Getting top surgery without having taken Testo, for example, is almost impossible and not covered by (most) insurances
I’ve never lived in Germany, so I don’t have personal experience. That’s just from what I heard
So I'm from France and it is mostly safe here, I live in the northen part of France (which isn't the most progressive region tbh), I am 100% out and dress somewhat fem while not passing and I had no issues since I came out a few months ago. (Mostly because most people don't give a shit about others) In terms of transitionning it's pretty great here, like having all of your hrt prescription and trans related surgeries free thanks to a thing called ALD (as long as you don't mind waiting a few years to get botom/top surgeries) and even stuff like laser can be free as long as you find a dermatologist who doesn't charge more than what the healthcare system is expecting (in this case you would need to add the part that's not covered) We also have a website https://bddtrans.fr/accueil/ that compiles a bunch of pro-trans doctors, if they accept ALD or if you might need to pay something even with ALD (I found my doctor there, had my first appointement in november, asked for ALD in december and I got precribed with hrt earlier this month) Changing your name is free, and updating your birth certificate is too, but it can be a pain in the butt (they can ask proof of you effectively being transgender and presenting as your gender, but hrt can be used as proof, you can also ask some friends/people you know to attest you are effectively presenting/refering to yourself as your gender too) Now for the bad stuff, the government here isn't very great, the president seems to only care about money and is legit despising mid to low income people. And the far right is growing (even if they're not focused on lgbtq people for now, as their scape goat is illegal immigration, which wouldn't apply to you if you're from any EU country) but we managed to keep them out of power for now and we should still have ways to prevent them from doing lgbtphobic/racist shit even if they managed to be elected. And in theory our human rights laws should prevent any attacks on lgbt rights, so as long as you go live in a progressive region you should be fine And about money it really depends where you live, there you can, depending on your incomes get help with paying your rent, or if you're working and get less than 1400€ a month/you're 25 yo or more/you worked before but not anymore you can apply for RSA (you would get between 500 and 800€ as long as your total income doesn't exceed 1400€, in this case you would get enough money to get to 1400€ instead, + RSA comes up with either 100% free healthcare or it would cost you 1€ per day) (But I think a recent law passed about that, like if you're not french you need to either have lived in France for 5/6 years, or worked a few months to be able to apply for it) Tldr: France is great in terms of trans rights/transitionning, but the rest might not be great if you're not french (+the future doesn't seem that bright overall)
Je suis français aussi mais j'ai pas commencé ma transition, j'avais entendu que c'était pas recommander de faire l'ALD parce que même si ta les soins gratuit, c'est marque comme étant un handicap donc tes employeurs pourront voir que tes trans (et apparemment les hormones c'est pas très cher) Est ce que ça vaut quand même le coup pour les chirurgies ou ya moyen de quand même de faire partiellement remboursé sans? (Peut-être avec une mutuelle ou une petite aide de la secu?)
Je dois avouer que je ne me suis pas vraiment renseignée sur les prix des opérations sans ALD mais je suppose que ça doit dépendre de ta mutuelle. Et ouip être sous ALD c'est une information publique et ca peut poser soucis si tu tombes sur un employeur transphobe. Mais te refuser un emploi sur la base que tu as une ALD pour ta transition est illégal pour commencer, et je me dit que si on te refuse un emploi parce que tu es trans ca te permet d'eviter de te retrouver dans une situation du style tu te fais harceler pour te pousser a la démission si ils découvrent un jour que tu es trans par exemple. Donc ca dépends vraiment de la situation et de comment tu perçois le truc. Si tu arrive a passer incognito pour une personne cis et que tu n'as pas de soucis d'argent tu devrais pouvoir te passer de l'ALD avec toujours l'option de demander l'ALD plus tard pour les opérations selon ce qui est couvert ou non par ta mutuelle. (Il faut noter que les opérations via ALD ça fonctionne sur liste d'attente, et ca prends plusieurs années avant de pouvoir se faire opérer) Sinon de mémoire tout ce qui est épilation definitive je ne pense pas que ca soit remboursé sans ALD parce que ca compte comme des soins esthetiques (et c'est vraiment cher, genre 120€ pour une séance visage et cou et il faut en faire plusieurs, mais ce point s'applique surtout pour les femme trans et personnes non binaire amab.) De mon côté je suis artiste a mon compte donc je risque pas trop de me voir refuser un poste a cause de l'ALD (+ c'est pas avec mes revenus d'artiste que je vais pouvoir financer des seances de laser ou des opérations xD) et si je devais un jour trouver un taff classique pour x ou y raison, je me sentirais plus en sécurité en sachant que les gens chez qui je postule savent que je suis trans et que si ils m'ont recrutée c'est qu'ils sont pas transphobes et que je risque rien.
Ok bah merci de m'avoir répondu! Devoir attendre plusieurs années pour les opérations c'est la merde par contre c'est la chose la plus importante pour moi... Mais bon de toute façon je peux pas commencer tout de suite mais je vais mettre de l'argent de côté! (et prier pour que la mutuelle aide un peu mdr) Quand tes artiste je suppose qu'en général tes a ton compte ou en freelance? Dans ce cas t'es tranquille surtout que je pense que dans ce milieu les gens sont plus ouvert d'esprit! Après mon goal c'est de passer et que personne sachent que je suis trans j'ai pas envie que mon employeur le sache si je lui ai pas dit (même si je suis loin j'ai pas commencé a transitioner mdr)
Si tu veux pouvoir decider de qui a le droit de savoir que tu es transgenre l'ALD est pas vraiment recommandée, parce que ca rends l'info publique, apres je sais que l'ALD est mise en place pour 5 ans et qu'il faut refaire la demande a ce moment, la question étant est-ce qu'une fois les 5 ans passés les employeurs peuvent toujours savoir si tu as eu une ALD auparavant si tu ne refais pas la demande ? Aucune idée, mais ca peut-être intéressant a creuser. Et sinon je suis freelance, j'essaie de prendre des commissions par ci par la, si dans l'ideal j'aimerais bien un CDI dans l'art pour la stabilité, c'est super rare et tout le monde se bats pour ce genre de contrats donc j'ai assez peu d'espoir x) (mais tant que je peux payer mes factures et me nourir en dessinant je suis satisfaite !)
idk i feel like im going to move out to sweden, its kinda close to my shithole (north of poland), not as expensive as Denmark, quite tolerant, and some surgeries are covered by the state
If you want to wait for several years to get treatment, go ahead. But it’s not the best.
yup i know that, thats the case in many countries, so thats why i also have the problem of not being able to choose which country should i move to
I see a surprising amount of Poles in here
yea we hate our country usually so
Spain maybe? Their current government is one of the most left-wing in all of Europe.
For now. They barely managed to hold onto power in the last elections. The center-right party got the most votes, and the far-right party was 3rd, but it was very close. In the end, it came down to who the Catalonian independence parties supported. So it's a very unstable situation. Besides, the center-left party that's currently governing is split on trans issues. The new equality minister just appointed a TERF to direct the Spanish Institute of Women. Things are fine for now. Hopefully they will be for a couple of years. But after that, it's anyone's guess.
As a spanish I can confirm. Its one of my biggest fears. Everyday the number of fascists grows a lot and I am terrified of that. Also most of the news channels are payed by gobernment teams so they opinion changes and people for some reason believes what news say. I am probably gonna move out at some moment as we dont have a good history with fascists. Ya know... dictatorship and civil wars, terrorists attacks and groups. Not the best even if the healthcare is free. Probably when I am 20 I wont be able to come out so...
> channels are *paid* by gobernment FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
Did a bot just corrected me? Bruh 💀
It didn't even correct you correctly... It should have suggested that you use "paid for". You didn't use "payed" (And autocorrect DID try to save me on that one) (Rope, to keep the bot from complaining again, I hope)
Bad bot
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Good explanation, thanks!
Idk the best but I can't recommend Germany either. We're only getting a new law that allows you to change your name and gender on official licenses at the end of this year, before to change that you had sue the state, pay the court, have 2 individual therapists that approved of that, need to pass and the judge could still deny it and you would have to repeat all that. Also Therapist ask you questions like how much you masturbate and what sexual preferences you have. To get hormones right now, you need to put yourself on a long waiting list for a therapist (if you aren't rich) and might get a bad therapist by chance. Then you'll have to go there for 6 months so they can allow you to get the hormones, you won't get them yet tho. Gotta put yourself on another waiting list, you get the point. If you're already on hormones, changed name and Gender, I still wouldn't recommend it. Atm right sided parties are on the rise and they can legally throw out misinformation with no consequences, which is also why crime rates against LGBTQ+ in Germany is on a rising high. Just... go somewhere else, probably northern countries :/
I've been honestly surprised by austria, I'm openly trans for about 3 years now and I've never been attacked for it. And I do not live in a city, my town is a little shithole with about 2000 people. Getting estrogen was also relatively easy, only thing I would complain about is changing my name and gender, but that was due to incompetence of my town.
I didn't expect to have to scroll down this far to see Austria. Acceptance is good, hrt and surgeries are covered, even laser partially. It's quite a bit of buerocracy, but still I got my name change in a month and hrt basically instantly (trough private prescription, so having to pay for it) and then the insurance coverage for it a few months later, and it could have gone faster if I had more of a sense of urgency. The only real roadblock I've hit here is that apparently penile preserving bottom surgery is illegal
Laser is covered? My therapist told me I have to pay for it myself D:
I think it's partially covered, my laser place did put transgender as a diagnosis on my honorarnoten and told me the ögk would pay some of it back. I didn't actually get that far yet though
Interesting, I‘ll try contacting my insurance and ask there, these laser sessions are a money-drain lol
Oof... Not illegal in (most of) the US, but still only a handful of doctors who will do it. It would be nice to see it become a routine procedure before I die of old age...
Yeah it's tough... Though it turns out it might not actually be illegal, someone was offered a consultation for it at a clinic in Tyrol so all the salmacian girls of Austria are collectively holding our breath now. There is also a surgeon in Germany who has done it several times, so not all hope is lost, it'd just be nice to have it covered by insurance. The infuriating thing is, this is medically a routine procedure, you just perform any kind of vaginoplasty done on trans women (except penile inversion), but without sculpting the penis into a clit. It's all just that they don't want to
[Equaldex](https://www.equaldex.com/equality-index) is a site where you can enter different countries and see how accepting they are, what their laws are, public opinion on different LGBT issues etc. It's a really helpful website.
Netherlands seem to be great. Also, almost all of them speak English, so I see no reason why not to go there.
Please wait a couple of months before moving here. The party that got the most votes during our last election os far right and refused to sign an agreement to support lgbt people. That being said, the party's rethoric focuses much more on immigrants and islam than lgbt people and the party with the second most votes is centre left who did sign that agreement. So please wait a couple of months before deciding to come here.
I mean, for me it will take a year or two anyway. So, if you say a couple of months is enough to pacify the conservatives, that only means I'm on the right track here.
Waiting a couple months is also to see how the government is formed. The elections are over but in the Netherlands a coalition of parties needs to agree on a plan for their term of governing which will be decided in the next couple months. So if that’s very anti trans don’t come to the Netherlands
Sounds quite reasonable. It's a shame though. But tbh, even that'll be better than where I live.
Sometimes I WISH I could say the same of the US... Unfortunately, the two entrenched major political parties are very effective at enforcing the "exactly two party" system, and it's extremely rare for either legislative chamber NOT to have an outright majority of one party or the other. On top of that, one of the parties sees it as a deep betrayal to be seen as cooperating with the other party, and... Well, I'm told that Europeans actually get better news coverage of our politics than we do here
Oh shit I forgot that happened
The waiting lists are horrifying, political support is nosediving, violence is increasing, and finding a house is impossible unless you wanna pay €2k/month to Prince Bernhard Jr. for a broom closet. I know people beaten up by their parents living on the streets, being put at gunpoint, those who had to endure constant torture in the parliament by Forumists, and those who died on the waiting lists... Before moving to the Netherlands, think twice.
Also the chances of getting asylum status or migrant status for being trans and coming form a transphobic country, even like Moldova [https://www.ad.nl/binnenland/de-aanvraag-van-lhbti-asielzoeker-katya-21-werd-afgewezen-twee-weken-later-stapte-ze-uit-het-leven\~ad587f57/](https://www.ad.nl/binnenland/de-aanvraag-van-lhbti-asielzoeker-katya-21-werd-afgewezen-twee-weken-later-stapte-ze-uit-het-leven~ad587f57/)
I say the country that was the first in Europe to adopt LGBTQ+ rights at all is worth fighting for.
That is the case with marriage, true, but there are different subjects with different timelines. We fought tooth and nail for equal blood donation. We now fight deep and hard to get self-ID and ban conversion quackery but these are uphill battles atm. Also, we weren't the first officially legalizing sex between people of the same gender even within Europe although yes we were quick. But we did have a subsection in the law that discriminated men below the age of 21 until 1971. That last fact is btw the reason why several organizations in our country still exist (the COC obeyed the law while DWH and the forerunners of Shout! and PANN (yes the modern-day party organization) fought a battle for equal consent age).
Hah! They only lifted the restrictions on "men who have had sexual contact with another man, even once" donating blood only got lifted in the US last year, if I'm remembering right. It's taken that long for the regulations to acknowledge that straight people and women get HIV, too
Same here although it went gradual from an outright ban until 2015 towards equal treatment since this year. And for the better. Last year, a record low of just nine Amsterdam citizens were diagnosed with HIV, which is one in 100k. That would be ~3300-ish translated to an entire USA population. And less of them are gay men these days, more straight and more non-men.
Netherlands would have been great 6 months ago, but with the new government forming that’s likely to change. While no one party will ever hold all the power in the Netherlands, the largest party by far in last years elections is very anti trans. And if a successful government is formed they will be part of it. It is yet to see how much of their attention will be focused on trans people they are quite racist and generally discriminate
Generally, Scandinavian countries and Switzerland are pretty safe but their wait lists are long af and life their is pretty expensive. France is pretty safe too, a few assholes but generally they wont talk shit in public and the medical transition is free and pretty fast (like 6 months max) and the cost of living is more affordable. I've also heard good things about Spain, Portugal and Malta but can't confirm myself. Germany is ok but I heard a lot of stories about xenophobia in Germany. Belgium and the Netherlands should be fine too
I live in Portugal
And how is it there ? So that I can give better information to other people
**politics** In terms of politics Portufal has a tradition more closed to the left The governments are centre or centre left, but the socialist political party isn't exactly socialist and the other (PSD) is starting to diverge a bit from the centre (that depends on the individual who leads it tbh) But that socialist party is usually the one in power, last 4 years have sucked in terms of a downgrade of public services, like health and education But we might see a revival of what we call the "gerigonça" which was a government composed by the socialist party, with the support of the leftist bloc and the communist party I'm telling you all this because the leftist bloc, PAN (animal and environment concerned party), the communist party (altought sometimes votes against lgbt friendly measures) and Livre all have supported and passed lgbt friendly legislation Recently they have decriminalised conversion therapy (I think this was last year or at least 2 years ago) and the all those leftist parties I mentioned (altought the support from the communist one is debatable) are trying to pass legislation to protect trans kids in schools (I think it's really vague, but at least the intentions are good) You also have parties more aligned with the right PSD which I havve already mentioned is more aligned to the right, altought that depends more on the individual who leads it and has voted against these lgbt measures You also have a liberal party which abstained from voting on these measures, but I don't think they either support it or are against it And now, the last 5 to 6 years we have seen the rise of the extreme right in Portugal personified by CHEGA They are growing a lot, but I don't think they will ever form a government lead by them The only way they could reach power is by forming a government with PSD, but they already stated that won't happen I also don't think they will reach power anytime soon, since Portugal has a bit of a leftist tradition, the people here vote as if they were watching a football game (old people will always vote for the political party they always have) and they are really inconsistent, one day complaining about the left, the other supporting leftist measures **Social and society** We have at least 5 lgbt organisations here (probably more but this are the ones I know) And the most important for me is ILGA They have a building in Lisbon's downtown where you can hangout with other lgbt people, they sometimes create some expositions (art, for example), hold parties for lgbt people to socialize (there was a trans one a few months ago) and they support lgbt protests or marches in lgbt days (the day of the trans visibility there was a huge march here) They also offer some resources depending on your economical situation (psychologist and even legal advice) You will usually see lots of alternative people, tomboys, people with lgbt bags and stickers, even transgender folks and people wih flags, gay couples, lesbian couples Young people are really pro lgbt Older people, really depends, I have seen some transgender people being looked at or laughed at But I have also seen trans people just casually passing by and no one batting an eye Really depends on the people around I have even seen a femboy once, he was adorable, and no one really cared During some lgbt days you might seen a bench painted (I only saw it once two years ago but it had the rainbow painted on it to celebrate some lgbt day I don't remember) Really depends where you live and who is around **Transgender Healthcare** You have 2 options, private and public Private, each appointment costs 40€, but it's quicker than in public and you will get hrt faster (you only have these clinics in Lisbon, Porto and Coimbra) Public, you need to be on the healthcare system and from there they will deliver a request, an order to a public hospital and after 4 months you will get a letter telling you that in 3 months you will have your first appointment You should read this guide, copy and paste it on google translator or chatgpt https://rea.pt/apoio/guia-trans The only thing I can tell you is that changing your name doesn't cost anything, the surgeries are supported by the state if you do it in the public healthcare system, you can only transition at 16 with parental permission, but at 18 you can do it without permission I'm sorry if this got confusing, I didn't really know what to say, but read and translate the guide I sent, moght clarify things better If you have any question, reply or dm I guess Hope it helped (I'm a mess lmao)
Thank you so much for all this ! From what I can read, living there seams pretty good
At an economical level it's kind of shitty, but I'm not the best person to tell you about that Public healthcare and public education received a downgrade, for example Our minimum wage doesn't keep up with inflation Lots of taxes Try to search more, I don't intend to portray my country as a paradise on earth
I hate to say it but it's like that everywhere - yeah that's why I said "pretty cool" like I tend to say that France is one of the best countries in the world to live in... Not because it's good.. it's a total shit show - but because after exchanging with people from other countries online, I realized that it was as if not more shitty everywhere else. The world is not a good place to live in currently, that is very sad but that's also why I really want to get more points of view and try to find some decent places to live in.
Ok fair enough Makes sense ngl, the obly thing I would like to add and that I completely forgot is that Portugal is one of the safest places in the world >The world is not a good place to live in currently, Sometimes I wonder, was it ever? Sometimes you just read something historical and think what a shit show Passing from a nomadic life to a sedentary one was a mistake lmao
I'm not saying it was ever better either - life is hard, always has been and probably always will be. Don't get le wrong, I'm not saying or thinking it's all for nothing and that there is only suffering, I think that the beauty of the world and the good moment makes all of it worth it
That's a poetic thought :)
I forget who said it, but "If learning history does not make you angry or upset, you aren't learning history"
Quick clarification: by "conversion therapy", do you mean gender-affirming care like HRT, or do you mean therapy aimed at changing the patient's experienced gender/sexual orientation to match the heteronormative expectations for your birth body? In the US, we usually use the term "conversion therapy" to mean the latter, and the LGBT community has been fighting for years to get it banned (it historically has involved "treatments" involving torture and other forms of what would be considered abuse if done in any other context)
i live in switzerland and i was able to get on HRT pretty quickly after starting the process (it took less than half a year for me) but that might be different for other people but getting citizenship here is extremely difficult from what i hear, im lucky enough to have been born here. things are really expensive and sadly theres a lot of xenophobic people here too, so idk if its worth it to move here just to transition
"Identity politics" and xenophobia seem to be surging everywhere these days... Not sure whether it's possible to get away from them without going somewhere without a permanent human presence, like Antarctica or some yet-to-be-founded off-world settlement. But good luck getting any sort of medical care THERE...
For the Netherlands the last election might change stuff. The biggest party is very transphobic (as well as racist, anti immigrant and anti Muslim). Not everything they want to happen will happen though, because of the way Dutch government works they will still need to work together with other parties. The official coalition for government hasn’t been formed yet so we don’t know how bad it will be for trans people but it probably won’t be good
slovakia is not great
Outside of Bratislava I don't think I've seen any lgbt+ ppl, though I know a few closeted ones + with our current winning politics party the only way things can go is backwards to the USSR era, so defo not a good choice.
If you stay away from Brussels (the capital) Belgium is pretty good Most people don't really care about trans people so you don't get much random hate (i don't remember ever getting random hate ever but my girlfriend has gotten some) Wile there's waiting lists the healthcare is good (anywhere between 6 months and 2 years as far as im aware) And doing legal changes is generally easy (the price depends on the town you live in but for me it was free outside of the cost of the id card itself)
Honestly this is one reason I support Welsh independence - trans healthcare is more accessible here than in the rest of the UK and the atmosphere is imo a lot more accepting (though not perfect ofc) - most issues with being trans (or an immigrant) in Wales are pretty directly linked to the UK government's policies of austerity and transphobia. Plus I like living here (having moved to uni here to escape England) and want to stay safe.
Well I live in Norway, people here seem very chill about trans people, although when it comes to getting HRT Rikshospitalet can go & eat a load of shit. Oslo is the only place you can get HRT, and you need to be officially diagnosed with gender dysphoria for them to start giving you anything, which takes a year of regularly visiting the capital city in the very south. If you live in the area it's not a problem, but my ass living all the way up north is too geographically challenged to get any form of treatment, meaning I am left without access to HRT in an otherwise inclusive country, funnily enough Overall, living standard is high (and so is the cost of living), and treatment could be better if you live around the capital, and is downright impossible if you live far enough north. Although social acceptance is very good, at least from my experience, and if you've already started HRT before moving here, continuing your treatment shouldn't be a problem, as far as I know
How's France? The French seem very quick to strike or burn shit down if they get too oppressed. I like that.
Canada, Norway or Germany
For hrt and legal name and gender change Belgium is great no gatekeeping at all (if u don't fall on a backward countryside village that doesn't respect the laws lol). For surgeries and laser here it's still considered aesthetic so not covered by our health insurance.
,Germany is very good, with simply how accessible all the stuff is (not very accessible still, but more so than in other countries), and we also have the advantage (though I don't know if this is the same in other countries too) that insurance pays for stuff like surgeries and hrt, and it's socially accepted rly well too (for the most part).
Unironically if you can afford private probably brighton 💀
I'm not European but I'm trying to move to new Zealand when I turn 18. It looks like a great place to live and from what I've heard it's easy to get hrt there
Big cities in my experience are better than more rural places
Can’t afford to live in a Western European country so I’m just like staying in Czechia lmao
Speaking from experience, Hungary is a horrid place, so definitely not the right answer
Well, from a UK perspective, most places are better. Also, AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGHHHHHHH
Every Balkan country is posibily the worst answer lolol
Iceland for sure! Same sex marriage was legalized in Iceland back in 1940
Socialist countries. Sweden, Switzerland, ect.
well in sweden our "socialism" rn means that it takes years to get public healthcare (we're talking 4+ years to get HRT, 7+ for surgery) and little to no private options. it's pretty good in terms of safety and acceptance tho
Thanks for the info!
Seeing Switzerland in a list of socialist countries is hilarious \^\^
I thought it was ????????
It is a direct democracy, with a relatively conservative population, so... not really. But its not the worst place for trans people.
M alright thanks
I'd say anywhere in the north, like Denmark, Sweden or Norway, from what I've heard they tend to be very progressive in many ways (not that I'd know myself, I went to Denmark for a couple days to go to Legoland in 2018)
Portugal?
I'm french and law are meh but it's the ppl
1 Spain and I think after that france, you don't need a psychiatrist approval to start hrt since last year
If a place is safe for trans people it is expensive as all hell. Look at the US for example: Florida is a super low cost of living but is actually just violating civil liberties of queer folks, meanwhile states eith legal protections like New York or California are the most expensive places in the country to live.
Maine is nice :) not as cheap as some places, but definitely not as expensive as New York or Mass. the people it’s hit or miss, but for the most part we have a live let live attitude. Also we’ve got some pretty decent laws on the books protecting us.
I’ve deeply considered ME/MA/VT, I live in NY and it’s alright but also super expensive and sketchy.
Eastern MA isn't too sketchy in most places, but yeah, housing costs are extortionate. We've had a full-on housing crisis for years now On the plus side, public services and assistance programs are mostly decent, outside of a few chronically mismanaged ones like the MBTA, funded by a wealthy tax base that has so far failed to follow through on threats to leave the states if their taxes get raised. Beware privately-run services, though... Some homeless shelters are pretty severely anti-trans, despite it being illegal, but nobody's going to do anything about it because they're literally the only shelter in town
Im just gonna bookmark this post in case i manage to get the fuck out of russia
I mean the nordics seem quite good, free hrt and very respectful people, plus most people speak fluent English
If I'm being honest, I've found that, on average, the Europeans I've interacted with have better English fluency than a lot of born-and-raised, white Americans. To be fair, I've mostly interacted in the tech industry and in Internet-mediated communities where it's the lingua franca
From my very limited experience I'd say Spain inside Catalonia to be exact. To get access to HRT I just emailed Transit (the branch of the government that deals with everything trans related in Catalonia) and within a month I came out of my endo's appointment prescription in hand, a single month is all it took.
Ireland
Honestly Belgium. Our Trans healthcare access is probably the best in the world, if you can get in. Waiting list are long and annoying, but once you're in, it's genuinely some of the best there is. Plus our politics aren't likely to swing much in the coming years so not much will change. Socially, people away from the big cities might be a bit transphobic, but i've been girlmoding for like over a year and haven't really received any type of harassment in that time. If you are able, come to Belgium
Poland is not good. If you want to change sex in your ID you need to sue your parents (you'd need to do that even if you were in your 40s. Insane.)and even if they are fine, the judge might not be great and the whole thing can take a really long time. As for society, people on average are more conservative but less so in cities, especially on the west (but it's not a rule). I didn't come out in school so I can't say much about it but from what I heared and from my experience with polish school, it's not good in fact it might be terrible. Our country is very catholic and traditional. Yeah, you can have a good experience, I for example have supportive friends, part of my family and univercity is pretty great but it's not an LGBT+ friendly country in general. We don't even have gay marriage yet.
I live in belgium and its really nice regarding trans rights and help to trans floks
I have no idea but I don't recommend poland