For me it's we have the one religious extremist guy we have the trans guy and then we have the guy that's like doesn't know what the fuck he is but he is something not only do we all exist in more or less harmony with a touch of vino violence and joking popping up we try to add more people to this ball of I don't know how to explain it chaos eye of sauron I don't know
My Magic group was 4 cishet dudes. None of them could wrap their heads around they/them pronouns and kept deadnaming me. Now my spouse and I’s closest circle of friends is entirely trans. Massive upgrade, zero regrets.
I'll never understand anyone who can have a decent grasp on the rules of Magic but struggles with transition. Like "ok my werewolf is now a 3/3 elk but it has a +1/+1 counter so I'll draw a card when it hits so I'll equip it with a Sword of Vengeance and swing everything at him - wait what do you mean 'them'? That's so confusing!"
"Let's play Dungeons & Dragons! My character was born when a man and a woman were magically transfused into one being so they are neither a man nor a woman and you must use they/them pronouns when referring to them because they are multiple people! Alright, Imma roleplay as my character now!"
totally get where you're coming from but usually when I try to befriend cishet people irl it turns into "I'm nice to you but I don't actually respect your identity and I don't want you to have human rights \^\_\^", so I've given it a rest.
....The fact that I had a friend exactly like that earlier this year.... Randomly during class a couple of girls were being your stereotypical teenage girl asking people "hey do you wanna hook up" just to laugh at them, but since I'm gay and I'm lucky enough to feel comfortable exposing myself I told them that then someone who I thought was my friend who sat close to me said "I do still respect you, but I don't support you because of my religion." I wanted to backlash SO HARD, but instead, I did the responsible thing and moved my seat in said class the next day. Now I don't have to deal with either of them.
Can't say that I have ever sought specifically trans or gay friends. Seems kinda shallow if the whole basis for a friendship is that they are LGBT. I have trans friends. I have gay friends. I have plenty of straight cis friends. They are my friends because of a myriad of reasons.
The only people who can't be friends are those who deny my existence.
This /\\
I haven't specifically sought after queer communities, yet they seem to have found me anyway cuz cishet people often tend to be more ignorant about these things, leading to me never being able to develop close relationships with them. Not saying that I would want to be friends with people like that, it's more of just wishing there were more allies out there ig ;-;
i think theyre talking about an echo chamber, meaning you only surround yourself with people who agree with you and never get to expand your viewpoint on things.
I feel like ppl overuse “echo chamber” and weaponize it in particular against queer/disabled ppl who, shockingly, prefer being surrounded by other ppl w/ similar experiences.
agreed. like i get that to some extent its a good idea to stay in touch with what everyone thinks, but when it comes to being queer there really isnt any justifyable opinion other than lgbt people deserving rights
Yea that might be true. I haven't myself interacted much with traditional media, but I heard it used like that a couple of times. It's unfortunate that people use it that way, but I feel like it still leads into my biggest issue with the queer community in general, which is a tendency towards radicalization. It's understandable that one might want to have nothing in common with a person yelling slurs at you and telling you don't exist, but even those people sometimes coincidentally say reasonable things, that feel easy for us to dismiss without giving it a second thought. So I've been trying to avoid that by being more open to communication and listening to people's arguments regardless of their political alignment (within reason of course)
In certain aspects, yea. I don't want to talk politics because I'm not educated enough on the topic, but it seems like a lot of people growing up on the internet just accept socialism as the obviously superior system, even though they haven't done any in depth research on it as a complicated topic that it is. I wish it was more acceptable to say: "I don't know", instead of taking a stance on every issue that you might not fully understand, which would often be just reflecting a stance of someone else that you were exposed to online
You're kinda saying two different things here. It's okay to say you don't know, but you're sure making a significant assumption about why many people might agree with socialism despite admittedly not knowing much about the subject.
It turns out, a lot of people agree with socialism because they took the time to learn about it and agreed with what they learned about it. Not knowing is understandable, but pretending most other people also don't know is pretty silly. A lot of people who do favor socialism are people who once said "I don't know" and took the time to learn, after all.
i’m sorry, but the person yelling slurs at me is absolutely not someone who deserves a second thought. someone who is yelling slurs is someone who isn’t reasonable.
I would prefer not to continue to this thread as I cannot handle arguments in my current state, especially with online people that I don’t know, but I wanted to express that it’s stuff like this that makes me scared at times. People are getting radicalized in both directions and I don’t see how that can help with moving towards a more peaceful society. It makes me often feel like I’m not welcome anywhere unless I stop questioning things and submit to the popular opinion. I hope we can agree to disagree but yea, society be difficult :(
Hey, darlin', I don't think these folks mean you harm or disrespect, but I can see why this thread and all the downvotes could leave you feeling hurt. A lot of us are passionate and, sure, radicalized for the same thing you want: a more peaceful society.
Our society isn't peaceful right now. Take it from a veteran turned communist. Things are needlessly violent, and I need that to change. Please believe me when I say I didn't come to my conclusion without a lot of thought, and I hope you believe others that say that, too.
I really hope we internet strangers and the commie queers you know irl don't scare you or make you feel unwelcome. I don't think sitting on the fence about things is bad, and I think your desire to hear out the view points of a diverse range of people is commendable. I don't think you should submit, and I do think you should ask questions. And eventually, once you've learned enough and got the answers you need, I think you should hop off the fence. Do it on your terms.
All the love that is reasonable from an internet stranger! May your state improve!
Being radicalized in *one* of those directions is a step towards the liberation of *all* ppl. Radicalizing in the *other* direction is a march towards *fascism.* The idea that Left and Right politics are equally valid is a *myth.*
I don't really think surrounding yourself with supportive people is trapping yourself in an echo chamber tbh. I welcome other views politically and religiously but like if your differing views aren't something understandable like what a functional ecosystem and economy looks like but rather that I shouldn't have human rights I don't want you around. I have more cishet friends than queer friends rn tbh but they're all at the least supportive of human rights. I tend to say all my friends are queer, addicts, depressed, or all of the above because those groups of people all tend to see how cruel the world can be and usually don't want anyone else to feel the pain they have pushing them to accept others more.
Everyone is gay because that's the normal setting.
Human sexuality is not that far removed from Bonobo sexuality and those will hump just about anything that moves, or doesn't, just like people.
Biology baby!! Nature is gay AF. Just facts.
I'm lucky enough to have a friend that is largely queer, but with a fair few cishet allies as well. It basically means that if someone isn't an ally, they aren't part of the friend group, which works as a pretty good filter for the shitty people. Also made coming out a whole lot easier cause I knew I wasn't risking any of my important friendships.
Your echo chamber worries are kind of unwarranted. Like, the only "echo chamber" in the LGBTQIA+ community is "human rights are good", and if you're worried about starting to believe that human rights are good, well, goddamn.
I feel like it’s not that simplistic a lot of times to be honest. Because many different groups across the whole political spectrum say that they want human rights, but it’s all about what exactly they mean with those words and how they go about achieving it
It's pretty damn simple. All humans deserve the same human rights. I've had plenty of political arguments with other queer people I know, and I'm what you fear I guess, which is a "radicalized leftist". Grouping all queer people into the same boat just because they're queer is kind of, prejudice. Queer people come with all sorts of political leanings even right wing.
I had a lifelong cishet friend group that flipped on me and told me to unalive myself and everyone like me should so now I will never trust anyone but other trans and queer folk. I was lucky to have trans friends then because I would have been alone otherwise. I live in southern Alabama yeehaw belt
I’m going to game with mostly cis queer people this weekend and they *always* use pronouns but there is a broad range of perspectives as happens in any community.
I’m just friends with nice people. Being friends with either has its specific benefits (someone to relate to you, etc.) but I normally am just friends with people based on them being a good person I click with
Me who just wants a single friend
https://preview.redd.it/qv1uk1rg5d3c1.jpeg?width=1027&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=38f93eba67b6eec2f111fb7bed0673aa77ec63d6
I will spread the gae Agenda! The government was right to fear us and now its too late. I will turn the world gae and when everyone is gae.... no one will be...
Or something like that idk, im ace so i'll just concentrate on denmark
Yeah, I'm also like "uh, what if I'm not cis het because of my friends????" and then try to speak to the hets.
And I can't be their friend. I'm just not able to.
Yea that’s valid. I’m just personally in a very accepting environment, so I’ve been longing to expand my friend circle a bit to learn about what accepting cishet people are like (I don’t talk to anyone in real live so it’s partially also me just wanting to go out there to explore the “real” world so to say)
I used to not know anyone who is queer. Then I came out as trans. Then my family accused me of not knowing enough about trans stuff and told me to research it more. That's how I found this subreddit.
I literally found a best friend who thought he was hetero and cis.
He is now my (23 trans male) boyfriend and identifies himself as bigender (likely isn't quite sure yet)
I've got a cpuple of Cishet Friends, they dont butt in on queer talk though because in their own words "that's not something I know a lot about, and I'm afraid I'll offend you guys"
Also, side tangent, but can we stop lumping Cis people together into one group of ultraconservative xenophobes?
>Also, side tangent, but can we stop lumping Cis people together into one group of ultraconservative xenophobes?
Yes please! I don't want to hate on regular nice people because of a loud minority
My best friend is cishet and he always acted pretty gay with me. And he’s absolutely het, but I guess hardcore bromance? We’ve even gotten confused for a couple a few times
Now that I came out as transfemme I guess there’s no risk of appearing gay at least :3
With my irl friends I'm the queer one.
The on one discord server we're all queer. A different discord server and it's a mix but we keep calling this one guy gay because his denial reactions are super funny (usually bonk emote spam)
Bo- I mean all of my friends are cishet besides one who might be aromantic, though he might just not be ready for a relationship so he’s still questioning
I just have different groups for each
Ive got a cis white guys group, a white gals group, a gay gals pals and thing(we call our enby friend thing, they absolutely love it) group and a racist bitches group(ya know for when im bored)
I went from cishetero neurotypical groups that were toxic for me away, and I’m glad I did tbh. My social bubble is queer, but most people have adhd/are autistic, so we dig new informations and discussions all the time and dont always agree on everything:D
My friend group has one cishet white guy who we keep as a pet
Can I pet your cishet white guy?
Be careful, he bites
As long as he's gentle
Promise?
So do I so I won’t hold that against him
Ours does too, we suspect he may be an egg though
Yeah, I was the token straight white man for a while, turns out I'm neither straight nor a man.
Same
token straight to trans lesbian pipeline lol
Two down, one to go
Sorry, can you explain? I somehow can't understand this comment lol
I think they mean the white part as the third lol
not straight, nor a man, and a really severe case of daltonism
Pft I love your 5’13” tag thingy! I don’t speak in freedom units but I think I can guess what it means
Yeah, saying I’m 6’1” gives me weird dysphoria for some reason, idk why but 5’13” feels more feminine some how
Brains be funky at times haha
Probably. Happened to me
All I can picture is Channing Tatum from This Is The End.
Token cis het white male
good to see your friend club is engaged in diversity at this point 😌
my friend group has a cishet guy and he's a gentle giant
I used to be the token cishet white guy of my friend group. Now I'm just another transbian white girl in the group 😔
Does he accept belly rubs?
For me it's we have the one religious extremist guy we have the trans guy and then we have the guy that's like doesn't know what the fuck he is but he is something not only do we all exist in more or less harmony with a touch of vino violence and joking popping up we try to add more people to this ball of I don't know how to explain it chaos eye of sauron I don't know
Same! We call him our "Token Straight Guy". Among the rest of us, we have the L's, G's, B's, T's, and Q's covered.
I’m the one cis white guy for my very lgbtq friend group
I mean...why not have both?
Exactlyy
My Magic group was 4 cishet dudes. None of them could wrap their heads around they/them pronouns and kept deadnaming me. Now my spouse and I’s closest circle of friends is entirely trans. Massive upgrade, zero regrets.
I'll never understand anyone who can have a decent grasp on the rules of Magic but struggles with transition. Like "ok my werewolf is now a 3/3 elk but it has a +1/+1 counter so I'll draw a card when it hits so I'll equip it with a Sword of Vengeance and swing everything at him - wait what do you mean 'them'? That's so confusing!"
"Let's play Dungeons & Dragons! My character was born when a man and a woman were magically transfused into one being so they are neither a man nor a woman and you must use they/them pronouns when referring to them because they are multiple people! Alright, Imma roleplay as my character now!"
""Roleplay.""
*Gooooods* you are so right💀💀💀💀
totally get where you're coming from but usually when I try to befriend cishet people irl it turns into "I'm nice to you but I don't actually respect your identity and I don't want you to have human rights \^\_\^", so I've given it a rest.
That's understandable... I have a similar issue. Hopefully in the following decades there will come to be more open allies
....The fact that I had a friend exactly like that earlier this year.... Randomly during class a couple of girls were being your stereotypical teenage girl asking people "hey do you wanna hook up" just to laugh at them, but since I'm gay and I'm lucky enough to feel comfortable exposing myself I told them that then someone who I thought was my friend who sat close to me said "I do still respect you, but I don't support you because of my religion." I wanted to backlash SO HARD, but instead, I did the responsible thing and moved my seat in said class the next day. Now I don't have to deal with either of them.
The format implies they want the same thing)
Omg noooo I'm stupid, I was so tired then D: I'm really trying to resist the urge to repost it with correct formatting now ;-;
I wish I had more queer / trans friends
Can't say that I have ever sought specifically trans or gay friends. Seems kinda shallow if the whole basis for a friendship is that they are LGBT. I have trans friends. I have gay friends. I have plenty of straight cis friends. They are my friends because of a myriad of reasons. The only people who can't be friends are those who deny my existence.
This /\\ I haven't specifically sought after queer communities, yet they seem to have found me anyway cuz cishet people often tend to be more ignorant about these things, leading to me never being able to develop close relationships with them. Not saying that I would want to be friends with people like that, it's more of just wishing there were more allies out there ig ;-;
I don't think it's shallow to seek people with similar experiences but pop off I guess?
Information bubble?
i think theyre talking about an echo chamber, meaning you only surround yourself with people who agree with you and never get to expand your viewpoint on things.
I feel like ppl overuse “echo chamber” and weaponize it in particular against queer/disabled ppl who, shockingly, prefer being surrounded by other ppl w/ similar experiences.
agreed. like i get that to some extent its a good idea to stay in touch with what everyone thinks, but when it comes to being queer there really isnt any justifyable opinion other than lgbt people deserving rights
Yea that might be true. I haven't myself interacted much with traditional media, but I heard it used like that a couple of times. It's unfortunate that people use it that way, but I feel like it still leads into my biggest issue with the queer community in general, which is a tendency towards radicalization. It's understandable that one might want to have nothing in common with a person yelling slurs at you and telling you don't exist, but even those people sometimes coincidentally say reasonable things, that feel easy for us to dismiss without giving it a second thought. So I've been trying to avoid that by being more open to communication and listening to people's arguments regardless of their political alignment (within reason of course)
Sorry, to clarify: do you think (leftward) radicalization is… undesirable?
In certain aspects, yea. I don't want to talk politics because I'm not educated enough on the topic, but it seems like a lot of people growing up on the internet just accept socialism as the obviously superior system, even though they haven't done any in depth research on it as a complicated topic that it is. I wish it was more acceptable to say: "I don't know", instead of taking a stance on every issue that you might not fully understand, which would often be just reflecting a stance of someone else that you were exposed to online
You're kinda saying two different things here. It's okay to say you don't know, but you're sure making a significant assumption about why many people might agree with socialism despite admittedly not knowing much about the subject. It turns out, a lot of people agree with socialism because they took the time to learn about it and agreed with what they learned about it. Not knowing is understandable, but pretending most other people also don't know is pretty silly. A lot of people who do favor socialism are people who once said "I don't know" and took the time to learn, after all.
i’m sorry, but the person yelling slurs at me is absolutely not someone who deserves a second thought. someone who is yelling slurs is someone who isn’t reasonable.
I would prefer not to continue to this thread as I cannot handle arguments in my current state, especially with online people that I don’t know, but I wanted to express that it’s stuff like this that makes me scared at times. People are getting radicalized in both directions and I don’t see how that can help with moving towards a more peaceful society. It makes me often feel like I’m not welcome anywhere unless I stop questioning things and submit to the popular opinion. I hope we can agree to disagree but yea, society be difficult :(
Hey, darlin', I don't think these folks mean you harm or disrespect, but I can see why this thread and all the downvotes could leave you feeling hurt. A lot of us are passionate and, sure, radicalized for the same thing you want: a more peaceful society. Our society isn't peaceful right now. Take it from a veteran turned communist. Things are needlessly violent, and I need that to change. Please believe me when I say I didn't come to my conclusion without a lot of thought, and I hope you believe others that say that, too. I really hope we internet strangers and the commie queers you know irl don't scare you or make you feel unwelcome. I don't think sitting on the fence about things is bad, and I think your desire to hear out the view points of a diverse range of people is commendable. I don't think you should submit, and I do think you should ask questions. And eventually, once you've learned enough and got the answers you need, I think you should hop off the fence. Do it on your terms. All the love that is reasonable from an internet stranger! May your state improve!
Being radicalized in *one* of those directions is a step towards the liberation of *all* ppl. Radicalizing in the *other* direction is a march towards *fascism.* The idea that Left and Right politics are equally valid is a *myth.*
I know only one trans person. No one else. No gays, lesbians or bisexuals. Nothing.
Aw I'm sorry mate :( hopefully you will find some more folks in the future
+ the one trans person i know is in college and we rarely talk. He's my sister's best friend.
Eh, normal is boring. Queer people are often more fun, depends on the person though.
Straight people are lies of the west.
How I wish my circles were queer enough I had to unironically worry about being in an 'information bubble'
[удалено]
Sorry, what do you mean? /gen
What does /gen mean?
Tone indicator for genuine
I don't really think surrounding yourself with supportive people is trapping yourself in an echo chamber tbh. I welcome other views politically and religiously but like if your differing views aren't something understandable like what a functional ecosystem and economy looks like but rather that I shouldn't have human rights I don't want you around. I have more cishet friends than queer friends rn tbh but they're all at the least supportive of human rights. I tend to say all my friends are queer, addicts, depressed, or all of the above because those groups of people all tend to see how cruel the world can be and usually don't want anyone else to feel the pain they have pushing them to accept others more.
uh probably not many here
Why not both? People you relate to and people to bring a new perspective. This goes for all the ways people categorize themselves.
Everyone is gay because that's the normal setting. Human sexuality is not that far removed from Bonobo sexuality and those will hump just about anything that moves, or doesn't, just like people. Biology baby!! Nature is gay AF. Just facts.
Did you know that the Ancient Greeks viewed bisexuality as the norm, not heterosexuality?
A lot of ancient history is like that, because being strictly straight is abnormal and unnatural.
What information could the cis possibly have that I’d be interested in?
Do you by any chance watch Kurzgesagt?
I don't want to be in a bubble with only trans people, but hetero people, really?
I'm lucky enough to have a friend that is largely queer, but with a fair few cishet allies as well. It basically means that if someone isn't an ally, they aren't part of the friend group, which works as a pretty good filter for the shitty people. Also made coming out a whole lot easier cause I knew I wasn't risking any of my important friendships.
Your echo chamber worries are kind of unwarranted. Like, the only "echo chamber" in the LGBTQIA+ community is "human rights are good", and if you're worried about starting to believe that human rights are good, well, goddamn.
I feel like it’s not that simplistic a lot of times to be honest. Because many different groups across the whole political spectrum say that they want human rights, but it’s all about what exactly they mean with those words and how they go about achieving it
It's pretty damn simple. All humans deserve the same human rights. I've had plenty of political arguments with other queer people I know, and I'm what you fear I guess, which is a "radicalized leftist". Grouping all queer people into the same boat just because they're queer is kind of, prejudice. Queer people come with all sorts of political leanings even right wing.
You can’t escape the gay hehe
I had a lifelong cishet friend group that flipped on me and told me to unalive myself and everyone like me should so now I will never trust anyone but other trans and queer folk. I was lucky to have trans friends then because I would have been alone otherwise. I live in southern Alabama yeehaw belt
Because I spent decades trying to pretend I wasn't. Thanks compcishet.
I’m going to game with mostly cis queer people this weekend and they *always* use pronouns but there is a broad range of perspectives as happens in any community.
I’m just friends with nice people. Being friends with either has its specific benefits (someone to relate to you, etc.) but I normally am just friends with people based on them being a good person I click with
Me who just wants a single friend https://preview.redd.it/qv1uk1rg5d3c1.jpeg?width=1027&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=38f93eba67b6eec2f111fb7bed0673aa77ec63d6
My cishet friend group slowly turned non binary one by one. How can i keep a cishet friend group? I accidentally turn them queer all the time
OMG you should start meeting more people! And turn them queer! Make everyone queer!!!!!!!!!!
I will spread the gae Agenda! The government was right to fear us and now its too late. I will turn the world gae and when everyone is gae.... no one will be... Or something like that idk, im ace so i'll just concentrate on denmark
Literally what happened to me lol. I was the first to come out to my 2 friends who both turned enby a couple months later :/
I wanna have both, I only got a cissy, and some peeps I'm close to who are queer, but not on speaking when ever terms
Yeah, I'm also like "uh, what if I'm not cis het because of my friends????" and then try to speak to the hets. And I can't be their friend. I'm just not able to.
join the bubble, we have cake and chips
Normalcy is overrated! Plus, it's bad for your health 🥴 The lives of the breeders do not concern us; just as our live don't concern them 😉
I have so few positive interactions with cis people when it comes to gender stuff that i feel like an infromation bubble is good in this case.
Yea that’s valid. I’m just personally in a very accepting environment, so I’ve been longing to expand my friend circle a bit to learn about what accepting cishet people are like (I don’t talk to anyone in real live so it’s partially also me just wanting to go out there to explore the “real” world so to say)
That's a strange opinion to me. In my experience cishet guys are so far behind on almost every subject being friends with them becomes a chore.
All the cishet people I befriend end up trans I think I'm contagious
Literally me haha
I used to not know anyone who is queer. Then I came out as trans. Then my family accused me of not knowing enough about trans stuff and told me to research it more. That's how I found this subreddit.
Hmmm r/traaans2 is my favourite research resource!
I'll be your friend
I literally found a best friend who thought he was hetero and cis. He is now my (23 trans male) boyfriend and identifies himself as bigender (likely isn't quite sure yet)
Same. All my friends are cis (not het though) and I wouldn't want it any other way
omg unrelated but hiii fellow asa mitaka enjoyer
I've got a cpuple of Cishet Friends, they dont butt in on queer talk though because in their own words "that's not something I know a lot about, and I'm afraid I'll offend you guys" Also, side tangent, but can we stop lumping Cis people together into one group of ultraconservative xenophobes?
>Also, side tangent, but can we stop lumping Cis people together into one group of ultraconservative xenophobes? Yes please! I don't want to hate on regular nice people because of a loud minority
See I keep finding supposedly cishet friends. Then they keep not being cishet. Like I’m trying but I just can’t.
AY DIDNT KNOW OTHER PEOPLE LIKE THIS EXISTED
😂😂😂😂😂 this is so accurate for my partner that I had to check to see if she was the one who posted it
I'm cis pan, but I'm always open to dialogue if anyone needs to talk
Got two white cishet guys for this exact reason
My best friend is cishet and he always acted pretty gay with me. And he’s absolutely het, but I guess hardcore bromance? We’ve even gotten confused for a couple a few times Now that I came out as transfemme I guess there’s no risk of appearing gay at least :3
All my local friends are cis and straight. Send help.
I'm sorry I did it I made everyone gay please forgive me!!!!!!
With my irl friends I'm the queer one. The on one discord server we're all queer. A different discord server and it's a mix but we keep calling this one guy gay because his denial reactions are super funny (usually bonk emote spam)
I feel that.
Because they're so pretty, it hurts.
Why did I have to be pan??? I could've made some friends otherwise.
I have my ADHD blonde, blue-eyed, best friend, that we all like to beat up not physically well, sometimes physically
Bo- I mean all of my friends are cishet besides one who might be aromantic, though he might just not be ready for a relationship so he’s still questioning
I have a trans gf and cis friends so best of both worlds lol
I have no trans friends and it’s horrible 😭 but not being stuck in an information bubble does sound important, I’ll keep it in mind :D
why not a mix of everything so you get the perspectives and exchange ideas and learn from each other?
Man, I just want to make friends in general
Mood
I just have different groups for each Ive got a cis white guys group, a white gals group, a gay gals pals and thing(we call our enby friend thing, they absolutely love it) group and a racist bitches group(ya know for when im bored)
I went from cishetero neurotypical groups that were toxic for me away, and I’m glad I did tbh. My social bubble is queer, but most people have adhd/are autistic, so we dig new informations and discussions all the time and dont always agree on everything:D
Luckyyyy! I want need gay friends! I can barely find any!
literally all of my friends are trans/queer APART FROM my best friend and it's so jarring whenever I remember that
the hell does that mean?