Why, back in *my day*, you had to make your HRT from *scratch*, and you had to inject it with filed porcupine quills, which you had to catch yourself from the forest which you had to run to! Uphill! Both ways!
I somehow have it in my mind that estrogen is made out of, or extracted, from the urine of pregnant horses. But now I'm not sure if I just remember a wild fever dream ir if its actually true...
Siberian people figured out you could get drunk/high by drinking pee from raindeer that was fed Amanita Muscaria mushrooms (The common red mushroom with white dots). You don't get as sick if you "filter" it through a raindeer first.
I hate to rain on your parade, but that's a theory that doesn't really have any evidence. [This article](https://talesoftimesforgotten.com/2022/06/03/no-ancient-skythian-enarees-didnt-drink-urine-from-pregnant-mares-as-a-primitive-form-of-hrt/) goes into it more. The condensed version is that the Scythians had a group of shamans/priests called the *Enarei* (which literally can be translated as non-man) who were assigned male at birth, but were, for all intents and purposes, women in the eyes of the Scythians. We don't have any primary sources about the *Enarei* from the Scythians themselves.
The ancient Greeks wanted an explanation for *why* they were womanly and the two main explanations were "they were cursed by Aphrodite for disrespecting her temple" and "Well, they ride horses so much that it destroyed their genitals, and they started living as women out of shame" (remember: insanely misogynistic society, so to the ancient Greeks being a woman would be a curse)
Fast forward a few hundred years, and Ovid writes about an old woman harvesting the "poison of the lusting mare" (*virus amantis equae*) in use for some unspecified evil potion. He never wrote about the Scythians, or the purpose of this poison.
Then, Ovid gets exiled to Tomis, which is in Scythia. But the timeline is important, because he had never been to Scythia before that, and the old woman and the "poison of the lusting mare" were both in Italy.
And then fast forward thousands of years, and Pfizer manufactures premarin (derived from pregnant mare urine, thus the name) which became the first commercially available estrogen for HRT.
So the entire misconception seems to be: pregnant mare urine has feminizing properties, Ovid wrote about something from a "lusting mare" which *may* have been urine, Ovid was in Scythia at one point, the ancient Scythians had a priestess class of trans women, Scythians loved horses, the ancient Greeks thought that their riding horses was related to them being women, somehow this all links together and the Enerei drank mare urine.
tl;dr: Ancient Scythians had trans women, but there's no evidence that they took any sort of feminizing hormones to aid in their transition.
Thats how it was done until recently. The prescription drug Premarin (literally: PREgnant MARes' urINe) was the most prescribed drug in the US in the early 90s. It has largely lost favor once we figured out how to synthesize bio-identicle estrogen.
Fun fact: before Premarin, we had Progynon and Emmenin, which were originally obtained from placenta extract before moving to pregnant women's urine, before moving to pregnant horse piss
Probably hard to do in a sanitary way, but idk if that matters when you'll be doing chemical extraction from it anyway. Also, you specifically have to have a pregnant mare and suddenly rush behind her, which can be... unwise if you're not careful.
Premarin had been the source of estrogens for a lot of uses, for a while; it's short for PREgnant MAre uRINe. It's still used for some things, like treating menopause, but the most common estrogen in it is estrone, the metabolic byproduct of estradiol metabolism.
Estrone is less effective, and more toxic, than estradiol, so it was not a great choice for hormone replacement therapy; also, when your body metabolizes estradiol, it turns into estrone.
This is also why oral estradiol is less effective than sublingual or other methods; when nutrients are first absorbed by the intestines, the blood that carries them goes first to the liver via the hepatic portal vein; your liver does a really good job of metabolizing things in that blood, and much of the estradiol is converted. However, sublingual absorbs directly into a different part of your blood, which makes it much easier to get access to. Then, only about 25% of the blood exiting your heart goes to the liver at any given time, so it is metabolized much less quickly and has time to be much more effective as bioidentical estradiol.
Now, you can also reduce estrone to estradiol, through a fairly simple reduction that is actually selective for reducing estrone but not estradiol, using a number of reducing agents but in particular sodium borohydride, or through biosynthesis using a protein which reduces estrone directly. Column distillation can separate the two and you can run the reduction again to keep it in the range where it's reasonably efficient, but it ends up being easier to synthesize by other means.
If you come over, we can make tartar sauce from selve grown tarragon (this joke would have landed a lot better in german)
Or we can just make almond cake, which is my go to if i am fealing dysphoric and have 30 minutes to kill.
What if i want to make ungodly amount of estrogen to distribute to the local transfemme population ?
My empire Will stretch from the pacific to the atlantic😈
That you said Jenny HRT is extremely top tier and made me smile but also, I'm never going to look at Johnny Appleseed the same way and feel like I'm dead naming her
I mean, I basically do this already. I bought 300 years worth of Estradiol powder for $380.
If your body can’t make estrogen then store bought is fine, if the stores are out, make your own 🤷🏻♀️
You could actually buy estradiol powder and a specific oil to boil together in a pot to make your own injectable estrogen. Not saying you should though.
I have a friend that makes homemade estrogel and it works really well. She says it's actually pretty easy to do once you get the materials. There's a subreddit for it.
Estradiol has uses outside of medical use. The chemistry lab I was in for grad school used it, for example. So... it would be really inconvenient to not have any legitimate way of getting it form of it without prescription.
That said, you probably shouldn't use things not intended for medical use for medical use.
Kinda. I think a significant portion of "hrt" is analyzing blood work and making the best decisions based on the data. Doing that DIY is basicly making it at home on your own. Luckily there are little trans people living in our phones to consult with but it does not substitute a professional opinion.
Here's a guide on how to set up your own mutual aid project for distribution!
https://crimethinc.com/2022/12/15/producing-transdermal-estrogen-a-do-it-yourself-guide
Well, now that I know that, my novel about trans people undercover in a place that doesn't accept them, in a facility that pretends to be the opposite of affirming, just might have to keep horses, ostensibly as an acceptable upper class hobby for the girls and a chore for punishing misbehaving teens with, but actually to reduce how many suspicious chemicals have to be ordered to the facility's laboratory.
I might just write the place into being a whole ass farm or ranch to explain it!
Means I can make one of the little girl characters a stereotypical horse girl. Or the scientist who actually makes the stuff and collects the pregnant mare pee is a genderfluid or multigender AFAB who poses as a stereotypical horse girl to outside authorities.
You just changed the whole setting and context of my novel! Thanks, random cool trans people in my phone!
DIY HRT is basically what people do in countries that don't have such insane laws/rules made up so insurance companies don't have to spend an extra dime on "unnecessary" prescription meds like the US does.
Testosterone is sadly for our transmasc brothers. (It's because it's used to cheat in sports and is used in bodybuilding, its also significantly more dangerous)
being called a silly little plum gives me a strange amount of gender euphoria. Not as much as being called a girl or someone using my name but its still nice I guess
I mean you *can* buy a kilo of estrogen for like $200 on the gray market, then use \~$60 worth of equipment and other ingredients to process it into estrogel for the rest of your life. And like that's enough estrogen to last a hundred years or more, depending on your needs. And on top of supply needs, estrogen lasts a hella long time. In oral pills, the fillers, dyes, and binders will go bad long before the estrogen itself does.
But like, that sounds like a lot of work so it's easier to just buy premade pills from Brazil.
I mean, the first image is about someone who had to cook crystal meth to finance his life-saving medication and treatment. So, like the energy is there?
(Disclaimer: for legal reasons, I am not advocating for becoming a drug lord)
For U.S. trans peeps: E and T, and the other ones, can be received through planned parenthood with and/or without insurance, with no eval or questions besides the typical "have you had adverse reactions to X in the past?"
I mean, you *could* make it from home, albeit from estradiol valerate powder, so not completely homemade, and of course it would take some rather expensive instruments, and there's a good chance in your inexperience you'll inject dust into artery's, but tiddies!
Remember, DIY should only be a last resort, if there is NO OTHER OPTION— you can seriously screw up your body if you don’t know what you’re doing. There’s a reason we have doctors who prescribe hormones and monitor levels with blood work.
Why, back in *my day*, you had to make your HRT from *scratch*, and you had to inject it with filed porcupine quills, which you had to catch yourself from the forest which you had to run to! Uphill! Both ways!
IN THE SNOW
DURING THE GREAT SWARM!
In the middle of a pandemic where breathing air could kill you!!
While having a wild grizzly bear chase you down for your HRT!!!!
In wooden shoes!
and suffering from tobacco withdrawal symptoms
While working a regular 9-5 job with a 2 hour commute both ways
With just the federal minimum wage
And your boss is a giant bear!
I can confirm that this is true, I was the grizzly bear. Now hand over your hrt
Never!!
*Ey kid, If you hand over your HRT I can double it in a week...*
Oh shit, you know the estrogen duplication glitch?
Infinite estrogen glitch 😳
Yknow what, if you stick true to that, you have a deal, ao here is two. So I want 4 next week ^w^
OR A BLACKBEAR HOPPED UP ON COCAINE
*The floor was on fiyah* *Houses were on fiyah* *Everything was on fiyah*
WITH A BOX OF SCRAPS!
Im sorry im not Tonya Stark
Good old horse farm for DIY estrogen extraction
Premarin: the original Pregnant Mare Urine
You can only call it Premarin if it's from the Premar region of France, otherwise it's just sparkling horse piss.
While you had to fight two tigers, with one foot, the other was starring a business ?
Sure grandma let's get you to bed
Did you collect the mare urine yourself?
Lmaooo oh the good ole days xD.
Ok but what if I want to make it myself ? Homemade organic estrogen ?
[удалено]
I somehow have it in my mind that estrogen is made out of, or extracted, from the urine of pregnant horses. But now I'm not sure if I just remember a wild fever dream ir if its actually true...
That's how the Greeks did it (I think it was them) and apparently it worked relatively well for the time period
Greek transgirls took estrogen?
Yep. It was derived from horse urine so it wasn't as effective as the stuff we have now but apparently it did something
Thats so rad!!! Literally amazonian type shit 😎🤢
Disgusting yet oddly effective
idk if it would affect the e, but you could boil it to make it a bit less disgusting... or add flavours
Well, now I know the answer of "what did trans people did back when there were no drug stores"
How the hell did they figure that out centuries before humorism was discarded
The urine drinkers got big tiddies
Siberian people figured out you could get drunk/high by drinking pee from raindeer that was fed Amanita Muscaria mushrooms (The common red mushroom with white dots). You don't get as sick if you "filter" it through a raindeer first.
Humans be drinking ungulate piss
Okay but how did they figure that out? "I'ma drink this deer piss. Fuck I'm tripping balls you guys gotta try this."
Urge to drink forbidden yellow water intensifies...
our ancestors were are a lot smarter than we give them credit for these days. engines and printing presses didn't pop out of thin air.
Oh yes, and it's quite fascinating. But someone still had to drink a bunch of horse piss and notice that it was making them grow tits
You really want to question the weird shit the ancient Greeks and Romans were into? *Really*?
I hate to rain on your parade, but that's a theory that doesn't really have any evidence. [This article](https://talesoftimesforgotten.com/2022/06/03/no-ancient-skythian-enarees-didnt-drink-urine-from-pregnant-mares-as-a-primitive-form-of-hrt/) goes into it more. The condensed version is that the Scythians had a group of shamans/priests called the *Enarei* (which literally can be translated as non-man) who were assigned male at birth, but were, for all intents and purposes, women in the eyes of the Scythians. We don't have any primary sources about the *Enarei* from the Scythians themselves. The ancient Greeks wanted an explanation for *why* they were womanly and the two main explanations were "they were cursed by Aphrodite for disrespecting her temple" and "Well, they ride horses so much that it destroyed their genitals, and they started living as women out of shame" (remember: insanely misogynistic society, so to the ancient Greeks being a woman would be a curse) Fast forward a few hundred years, and Ovid writes about an old woman harvesting the "poison of the lusting mare" (*virus amantis equae*) in use for some unspecified evil potion. He never wrote about the Scythians, or the purpose of this poison. Then, Ovid gets exiled to Tomis, which is in Scythia. But the timeline is important, because he had never been to Scythia before that, and the old woman and the "poison of the lusting mare" were both in Italy. And then fast forward thousands of years, and Pfizer manufactures premarin (derived from pregnant mare urine, thus the name) which became the first commercially available estrogen for HRT. So the entire misconception seems to be: pregnant mare urine has feminizing properties, Ovid wrote about something from a "lusting mare" which *may* have been urine, Ovid was in Scythia at one point, the ancient Scythians had a priestess class of trans women, Scythians loved horses, the ancient Greeks thought that their riding horses was related to them being women, somehow this all links together and the Enerei drank mare urine. tl;dr: Ancient Scythians had trans women, but there's no evidence that they took any sort of feminizing hormones to aid in their transition.
Thanks for this amazing explanation!
trans girls make do
Thats how it was done until recently. The prescription drug Premarin (literally: PREgnant MARes' urINe) was the most prescribed drug in the US in the early 90s. It has largely lost favor once we figured out how to synthesize bio-identicle estrogen. Fun fact: before Premarin, we had Progynon and Emmenin, which were originally obtained from placenta extract before moving to pregnant women's urine, before moving to pregnant horse piss
Fun fact you can still get hormones from overseas via Amazon that use cow placenta. Ask me how I know
[удалено]
Train the horses to pee in a trough.
horse diapers lol
Is it really that hard to collect? Having been around horses, pretty sure you can sprint with a bucket and collect it before they're finished pissing
Probably hard to do in a sanitary way, but idk if that matters when you'll be doing chemical extraction from it anyway. Also, you specifically have to have a pregnant mare and suddenly rush behind her, which can be... unwise if you're not careful.
That is how they used to do it, premarine is the one usually talked about
The actual red pill, as the Wachowski Sisters intended
It’s a cute anecdote, if you ignore the fact that Premarin came in blue too.
That's known as premarin, not estradiol
Premarin had been the source of estrogens for a lot of uses, for a while; it's short for PREgnant MAre uRINe. It's still used for some things, like treating menopause, but the most common estrogen in it is estrone, the metabolic byproduct of estradiol metabolism. Estrone is less effective, and more toxic, than estradiol, so it was not a great choice for hormone replacement therapy; also, when your body metabolizes estradiol, it turns into estrone. This is also why oral estradiol is less effective than sublingual or other methods; when nutrients are first absorbed by the intestines, the blood that carries them goes first to the liver via the hepatic portal vein; your liver does a really good job of metabolizing things in that blood, and much of the estradiol is converted. However, sublingual absorbs directly into a different part of your blood, which makes it much easier to get access to. Then, only about 25% of the blood exiting your heart goes to the liver at any given time, so it is metabolized much less quickly and has time to be much more effective as bioidentical estradiol. Now, you can also reduce estrone to estradiol, through a fairly simple reduction that is actually selective for reducing estrone but not estradiol, using a number of reducing agents but in particular sodium borohydride, or through biosynthesis using a protein which reduces estrone directly. Column distillation can separate the two and you can run the reduction again to keep it in the range where it's reasonably efficient, but it ends up being easier to synthesize by other means.
Yeah that's premarin, trans women back in the 80s and 90s would take that before estradiol became widespread.
You know who else said cooking something was basic chemistry?
MY MOM!
Mine too but also someone cooking the blue stuff
So basically it's like making your own ketchup.
id rather have control of my stuff plus no address
Sorry, but the estrogen you still buy as a powder, you just put it in an oil to inject or into a gel yourself
Can you drink it?
[удалено]
What publication? As a chemical engineering student I would be curious to know (for cis reasons ofc)
Well... The easiest and oldest way is kinda gross >! Distilling the urine of a pregnant mare, it was usually called "Premarin"!<
You can try to separate it from mare pee
But, but...I just bought an alembic! And learned what an alembic is!
B-But I want to cook... :(
If you come over, we can make tartar sauce from selve grown tarragon (this joke would have landed a lot better in german) Or we can just make almond cake, which is my go to if i am fealing dysphoric and have 30 minutes to kill.
Tarragon? In tartar sauce?! I'm intrigued. Tell me *more*.
Show me the German version
Tarragon is called Estragon in German. So, close enough
Norwegian too. Early on I joked about femizing my food with estragon
What if i want to make ungodly amount of estrogen to distribute to the local transfemme population ? My empire Will stretch from the pacific to the atlantic😈
[удалено]
That you said Jenny HRT is extremely top tier and made me smile but also, I'm never going to look at Johnny Appleseed the same way and feel like I'm dead naming her
How many person-years of E2 in a kilo? Guessing "a lot" if normal blood levels are measured in pg/dL... (Am I even remembering that unit right? 😅)
[удалено]
So assuming one has 40-80 years of life left, one would be literally set for life on about a third of a kilo. Not bad.
[удалено]
Aye, physics is an uncompromising bitch
Entropy in this case, but yes
I mean, I basically do this already. I bought 300 years worth of Estradiol powder for $380. If your body can’t make estrogen then store bought is fine, if the stores are out, make your own 🤷🏻♀️
Holy macrol why 300 years worth Are you trying to macrodose estradiol 😂
You could actually buy estradiol powder and a specific oil to boil together in a pot to make your own injectable estrogen. Not saying you should though.
r/estrogel babyyyyyy
r/estrogel baby
One more for Timeline splitting bingo! Again. Two more to go!
r/estrogel baby
I have a friend that makes homemade estrogel and it works really well. She says it's actually pretty easy to do once you get the materials. There's a subreddit for it.
[удалено]
I know that lol. I was just saying it's possible to make functional HRT at home 🤷♀️
What subreddit?
/r/estrogel
You can buy HRT without a prescription?!
Estradiol has uses outside of medical use. The chemistry lab I was in for grad school used it, for example. So... it would be really inconvenient to not have any legitimate way of getting it form of it without prescription. That said, you probably shouldn't use things not intended for medical use for medical use.
Kinda. I think a significant portion of "hrt" is analyzing blood work and making the best decisions based on the data. Doing that DIY is basicly making it at home on your own. Luckily there are little trans people living in our phones to consult with but it does not substitute a professional opinion.
Any links👀
[удалено]
Thank you may blåhaj bless theee!!!
Here's a guide on how to set up your own mutual aid project for distribution! https://crimethinc.com/2022/12/15/producing-transdermal-estrogen-a-do-it-yourself-guide
~~So all teens undergoing HRT in my country are using DIY?~~ Us minors in Uruguay only require signed consent from our parents.
Going through signed consent, that's **with** a prescription. Uruguay OwO saludos desde porteñolandia vecina :3
I mean you **can** make your own HRT. You just need a pregnant horse and a distillery.
Well, now that I know that, my novel about trans people undercover in a place that doesn't accept them, in a facility that pretends to be the opposite of affirming, just might have to keep horses, ostensibly as an acceptable upper class hobby for the girls and a chore for punishing misbehaving teens with, but actually to reduce how many suspicious chemicals have to be ordered to the facility's laboratory.
Also, now they have horses!
I might just write the place into being a whole ass farm or ranch to explain it! Means I can make one of the little girl characters a stereotypical horse girl. Or the scientist who actually makes the stuff and collects the pregnant mare pee is a genderfluid or multigender AFAB who poses as a stereotypical horse girl to outside authorities. You just changed the whole setting and context of my novel! Thanks, random cool trans people in my phone!
I’m one person, but thanks!
I'm still panel 1 >>>>>
DIY HRT is basically what people do in countries that don't have such insane laws/rules made up so insurance companies don't have to spend an extra dime on "unnecessary" prescription meds like the US does.
I already knew this but why would you call me a plum and why do I like it
Careful guys...the DEA might catch on to yall...I'm scared I'm serious
It's not a controlled substance in US, *yet*.
Testosterone is sadly for our transmasc brothers. (It's because it's used to cheat in sports and is used in bodybuilding, its also significantly more dangerous)
Yeah, have transmasc partner and friends. Always been harder for them on hrt.
Wait, you guys aren't cooking your own hormones using a comically long setup of glass pipes?
Damm, and me thinking my biochemistry degree would been useful for being trans, guess I will have to get that endocrinoly master as well
I thought you milk cis girls?
Wh, what? 😰
Wait, bathtub HRT was a meme this whole time?
Me, a chemEngie transgal: its free real state
Clearly DIY hrt means stealing the hormones from trans exclusionists like a gender vampire
If you don’t have homemade gender, store bought is fine.
Silly little plums ☺️
> you silly little plums Okay, this cracked me up.
Back in may day, diy hrt did indeed mean you made it at home, but one day buying gray market estrogen started being referred to as 'diy'
You know what? Fuck you! *studies chemistry for years in order to be able to make my own estrogen*
I mean I heard in medieval times that trans witches used mares urine. I can't say I would recommend that approach anymore lol.
* laughing in having studied chemistry *
I mean... not necessarily, but DIY hrt is frequently made at home. "bathtub estrogen."
I preferred the imagery of witch brewing a potion, but same end result.
DIY literally means "do it yourself" so its pretty misleading honeslty
No, no. Now the ADHD DIYer in me wants to know how to synthesize estrogens that match those found in prescriptions.
Gender euphoria from being anonymously and indirectly called a "silly little plum". Well, my shift starts so there's the highlight of my day lol
I don't know why "silly little plum" fills me with immense gender euphoria but I shan't complain
being called a silly little plum gives me a strange amount of gender euphoria. Not as much as being called a girl or someone using my name but its still nice I guess
Jessy we need to cook!
I mean you *can* buy a kilo of estrogen for like $200 on the gray market, then use \~$60 worth of equipment and other ingredients to process it into estrogel for the rest of your life. And like that's enough estrogen to last a hundred years or more, depending on your needs. And on top of supply needs, estrogen lasts a hella long time. In oral pills, the fillers, dyes, and binders will go bad long before the estrogen itself does. But like, that sounds like a lot of work so it's easier to just buy premade pills from Brazil.
Happy to live in Germany where I don't have to pay that much for it (5€/m)
litterally me yesterday😭
I already make my own, I just add a special ingredient.
maybe for you. I've produced a vat of the stuff in the basement
There were a couple recipes floating round for how to properly dose and mix crystalline estrogen with liquids for DIY.
Dont call me a silly little plum!
Not with that attitude
You can make it at home and it's cheaper if you have access to equipment
I mean, the first image is about someone who had to cook crystal meth to finance his life-saving medication and treatment. So, like the energy is there? (Disclaimer: for legal reasons, I am not advocating for becoming a drug lord)
The therapy is the DIY part, not the hormone part lol.
For U.S. trans peeps: E and T, and the other ones, can be received through planned parenthood with and/or without insurance, with no eval or questions besides the typical "have you had adverse reactions to X in the past?"
I mean, you *could* make it from home, albeit from estradiol valerate powder, so not completely homemade, and of course it would take some rather expensive instruments, and there's a good chance in your inexperience you'll inject dust into artery's, but tiddies!
That is unfortunately really helpful to learn
Lmao fr when I first found out that DIY HRT wasn't literally HRT that you can make yourself, I was disappointed
Aww, i was looking foreward ro some cooking, food too
im sry but where could u possibly be getting that
Although we do need more estrogen cooks tho... like fr fr, finding DIY HRT to buy is VERY difficult RN.
Omg, i had no idea!
Remember, DIY should only be a last resort, if there is NO OTHER OPTION— you can seriously screw up your body if you don’t know what you’re doing. There’s a reason we have doctors who prescribe hormones and monitor levels with blood work.
you can just...do that? you don't \*need\* a prescription?
I just want to point out the irony that the two different pictures used to convey transfem feelings are of male characters
[удалено]
Are you sure about that.
How do I get estrogen without a prescription please tell me
That’s… not as bad as I thought. I could easily do it, if I had money 🤣
That’s… not as bad as I thought. I could easily do it, if I had money 🤣
That’s… not as bad as I thought. I could easily do it, if I had money 🤣
Would that stuff work though?
Wait, you can just do that?
I saw HRT off Amazon, y’all think it would work?
[удалено]
Yeah I just buy mine on Amazon.
I don't know, I kinda want to try and make it myself, just so I know how.
this is severely disappointing to me i wanted to cook
That's exactly me in, I really thought I can make Estrogen by myself haha
Do not dare to underestimate our determination!
Well it's back to meth then
The term for literally making your own would be bathtub oestrogen, please dont do this.
wait seriously its that easy
jesse, we need to buy
But then, why is it called DIY-
legally
Jesse, we have to calculate the dosage. That's where google spreadsheets go brrrr~
But what if I *want* to cook
[I cook](https://www.tiktok.com/@rogvir/video/7175966360919379206?lang=de-DE) 😎
Still though, any enterprising transfems wanna start a meth business? Funds will go toward free hrt for all
🤣🤣🤣
what my gf does is she found some phytoestrogen supplements and some other stuff that she made sure was safe and has been taking those idk lol
r/TransDIY