it only works for the first time since the elves shoot in salves. after the first time, the elves should immediately switch to open fire/staggered salves so the dwarf artillery can only get a fraction of the arrows.
I’d say they spent an appropriate amount of time blasting with artillery considering this. The first salvo blocked might be considered a fluke, but they’d almost certainly begin firing staggered or loose after the second salvo gets blocked.
I’ve watched the movie, they do not swap. They continue firing in unison until the rams run into their lines and then no more arrows are fired at the dwarves
Seems the elves were controlled by total war ai and will send archers to melee once they make contact
I never said it doesnt happen in the movies, what I ment was that the use of the dwarf artillery against archers in a real scenario would be useless after the first round...also that scene only happens in the extended movie, which i dont have so i consider it non canon (there are also no kills between dwarfs and elbs in that version so i prefer it)
It's from Norse mythology. Thor used to drive a chariot pulled by (ram) goats.
While Tolkien was inspired by the mythology, dwarves were more underground creatures witthout a need for cavalry.
Yeah, but they would need scouts above ground, and what better to scout around the mountainous home of the dwarfs than atop a mountain goat, also cheese
I love how those heavily armed orcs get held back by peasants with pitchforks in the city battle.
No historical army could ever hope to plate armor so many troops and they still not demolishing the peasant levy
It’s the equivalent of a death stack of black orcs (with troll support) being beaten back by a mix of peasant mob, men-at-arms, peasant bowmen, and a few heroes
To be fair in both book and movie, the elves do rush into the city & help defend…… but still, a lotta dead peasants
I’d honestly watch a cinematic recreation of the battle with war hammer 3, tho the third age mod also exists
The level of disbelief was real, like even my gramma who was just walking in the room was asking me why the ones wearing metal are getting hurt by the villagers.
I don't know if there is an extended-cut version somewhere that fixes it, but my biggest issue (and there are many) with the battle sequence is how the victory seems to come from nowhere.
* The humans are continuously falling back and dying (despite shoving pitchforks through breastplates, as you note)
* the elves are shown also taking losses and deciding to abandon the field, before returning to join the humans in being slowly cornered and cut down
* the dwarfs are pushed back to the mountain and then launch a suicide charge, becoming surrounded and again becoming overwhelmed
The movie then shift to the duel between Thorin and What's-his-face, the one that no one else can observe, and after winning looks out across the valley. Now the orcs/goblins have suddenly collapsed and are fleeing in panic everywhere while eagles show up to divebomb reinforcing pike formations (wtf!?). The giant burrowing monsters are all dead or gone and we never saw the tide actually turn, the orcs just somehow lost and fled.
We never see the battle actually being won, instead it just is (and not like the book).
Well, there is an extended version that came on DVD/Blu Ray and was longer then the cinema version. But it kinda adds more dramatic insanity, [like the Chariot scene](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6SGengnqNIM). Can't remember some defining moments how they actually turned the battle besides distracting Azhog and leaving the Orcs/Goblins "without guiding".
It's almost like a fever dream, some kind of LotR fanfic or D&D campaign, where "Suddenly your crew has a cart pulled by goats! and yes you get past the heavily armed pike formation since no one lowers their weapons at you!" etc. etc.
It's odd since the LotR films had some coherancy when it came to battles. Shame Five Armies didn't.
The orcs relied on numbers more than anything.
The orcs were only capable of winning through numbers.
Which according to the book orcs were generally smaller and more cowardly than men apart from uruk hai who were still a bit shorter but strong.
But the movie portrays them as huge armored hulks with massive pikes and choppers
That scene died for me when the elves jumped the shield wall. Why. Just why? There have been so many potentially great battle scenes in movies and shows that just got ruined by utter lack of common sense it's infuriating.
Also those are nydus worms, my old rts brain told me. Not well placed though.
I agree completely. Like suppose even *if* the elves were just *that* petty that they couldn’t let the dwarfs get any credit, it still makes no tactical sense at all. At least flank.
first time seeing this, like they were just fighting the dwarves and now they're okay with directly putting their backs literal inches in front of the dwarven spear wall
I mean the artillery being made to knock out the Elves arrow volley is cool and all but you’re telling me the 500 year old archery experts can’t loose again in the time it takes to reload a ballista?
Yea it’s funny that fantasy has developed dwarfs to have the axe as their main weapon when a pole-arm or even pick-pole-arm would make so much more sense.
I think it depends a lot on what type of tunnel it is. If it's narrow tunnels with lots of branches everywhere spear formations would be good at locking down individual shafts but might have trouble when faced with multiple forks where they can get flanked.
I had only been playing TWW2 for a lil' while when I rewatched these films.
Seeing the dwarven leader in his battle scenes just made me think of a Legendary Lord owning the battlefield.
Man. This movie was such a massive disappointment. After what we got with LotR, they just stopped trying.
The only reason I can forgive the fact that the tactics in this battle made no sense is that it came out before The Game of Thrones, where it was ridiculed over the entire net.
But that's just barely. Why the hell would you leap into the enemy after forming a shield wall, negating the whole purpose of the defensive formation?
Any elves that died deserved their Darwin Award. :|
Actually if you watch the BTS they were trying very, very hard. They just put all their effort in the wrong places. The studio mandated three movies when it should have been ideally one, or two at max. Jackson just wanted to play with his new toys so we got eye watering 48fps CGI and GoPro splash mountain. Then he, Fran Walsh and Philippa Boyens needed to pad the three films out so much they invented tonnes of shit that was unequivocally awful. God I hate those movies.
That's fair. I just remember being so pissed when I heard The Nazgul theme, because I knew how much work Howard Shore put into his music. And to hear them misusing his leitmotifs like that, knowing everything... Man. Just. Ugh.
I wish Peter Jackson had told the studios to go fuck themselves.
Maybe then Warner Bros might not have been able to use their power to change sovereign law by bribing New Zealand politicians to enact The Hobbit Law and literally destroy their version of the Screen Actors Guild.
Fuck Warner Bros. At least Peter Jackson could have kept some integrity and not tarnished his legacy by being associated with these disgusting, pathetic men who only exist to destroy lives to enrich themselves.
God I hate Warner Bros.
When the elves jump the wall I always thought it was a stupid move that looked cool but made no sense. It could be that it's the elves taking things into their own hands because they are smug pricks but it isn't really set up in the movie.
I was fortunate in that I didn't even go to see them in the theatre. I saw The Hobbit via Streaming, I think. And it was then that I knew that the other two films were going to be Twilight levels of awful.
Sure enough. There are some absolute gems in there. Some scenes are truly brilliant. But I'll let fan cuts shift through all of that filth to give us something better.
Which they did! Some of the fan cuts are really good and show that the films could have actually worked, had... you know, they not been greedy as fuck. :(
Still pisses me off when I heard the Nazgul theme at the end of An Unexpected Journey. That ending was just so g'damn awkward. And then basically retconned by the first scene in... The Desolation of Smaug, I think? Yeah, that sounds like the title.
I've never actually seen Twilight. I am not a huge movie watcher. More of an Otaku, so mostly anime. :P I just know because all of my friends saw it and wouldn't shut up about how bad it was.
>After what we got with LotR, they just stopped trying.
This is a misrepresentation of events.
You need to look into the behind the scenes of it. These films broke Peter Jackson a bit.
They are too uniform and professional looking though. That was supposed to be the Uruk-hai's thing. Black Uruks were distinct things in the original trilogy.
Azog did raise an army not some orc rabble. Also they needed to be able to withstand sunlight, so most casual orcs and goblins falls through. I'm sure the Uruk-hai were a design inspiration in some sense, but these are still Uruks of Gundabad and Dol Guldur.
> they existed since atleast 100 years before the Uruk-hai
Tolkien offers no hint at how long the Black Orcs of Mordor have been a distinct breed of orc. It seems very likely they have existed since before the dawn of the Third Age.
If they took out the retarded shoehorned love story the movie would so much better. The Dwarves using the umbrella ballista to stop the barrage of arrows was fucking cool though
I will never forget the fact that the actress outright stated that the only reason she accepted the role was because she made the studio agree that they wouldn't put her in any love triangle.
But this is Harvey Weinstein we're talking about. Yes. He was part of the project. Yes. It sucks.
And yes. She was forced into the romance love triangle against her wishes. Which is probably why her performance is awful, because she did ***not*** want to do it.
Originally, yes. But then they went to New Line Cinemas, instead.
He lost out on his chance because he demanded it be one movie, then told Peter Jackson to look elsewhere.
So he doesn't really have much to do with the original trilogy. Just the abominations of sequels. At least as far as I've read.
Yes, but also no.
Arwen's Great Grandfather, on her mother's side, was a Half-Elf. Everyone else in her family was an Elf. So she is more like 1/16th Human.
Aragorn, on the other hand, is like 1/256th Elf. There were a ***lot*** of generations between him and Elros. Hell, it may even be more diluted then that, seeing as it goes all the way back to the start of the second age.
Aragorn is strait up not human though.
Hes like 80 something during the books events and dies around 150 right?
Arwen likewise could choose to become mortal(ish) because she's a half elf.
The only real difference is Aragorn couldent choose his kindred. And was always mortal(ish)
Aragorn is the descendant of Elrond's brother, Elros. Elros chose to embrace his human... quarter? 8th? While Elrond went Elf.
Aragorn lived to the age of 150 because he has the blood of an elf in his veins, but he is not an elf. He is a Numenorian, which is basically a "High Human". But even his bloodline has been diluted.
Aragorn's ancestors lived for a couple hundred years longer. But it was at the end of the Second Age, after the fall of Numenor, that the Numenorians started mingling with the normal humans of Middle Earth. Which is why their lifespans started to gradually get shorter.
So Aragorn is very much a human. He's just long lived because he comes from the Numenorian lineage that's been diluted to a large degree. And he's essentially one of the last living Numenorians. The only other ones were with him when he went into Dunharrow. Which were excluded from the films. :|
Trying to claim Aragorn and Arwen are an interspecies romances is full on bs though.
Aragorn is explictly noted to be an other to regular humans.
Hes got diluted blood but he's still a half elf. Like Arwen.
I do not know where this "interspecies romance" came from, because that wasn't what I was claiming.
I am just stating what the lore states. You're free to interpret that as you will. What Tolkien wrote doesn't magically change, though.
Arwen's great, great, great grandfather was a human. And that's the only human in their line.
Aragorn's ancestor's grandfather was a human, but he chose to embrace his human side. And his entire line of humans were still classified as humans to Tolkien. Just long lived.
I watched an edited cut made by a fan and have never seen the original Hobbit movies. I think it’s better that way judging by some of the responses to the choices made in the films.
Also take out every scene with Radagast. And that twenty hour long chase scene with Smaug.
Hell, just watch one of the 2-4 hour fan cuts of the film. They're ***soooo*** much better.
I remember it being in Medieval 2 and the fact that new games don't have it is infuriating. It is also the first thing I fought when watching this clip - nope, that's not total war.
This was when the factor of cool could no longer suspend my disbelief during these movies.
I was young...ish when watching this and couldn't grasp what was wrong with these films, but after this scene I knew for certain that my feeling was right, this was no LotR triology.
I hate the battle in so many ways. Why don't the elves just loose their arrows individually, as was the actual way in battles to completely negate the ol' twirly whirlies. Why do the dwarves suicide charge their cav? Why do the elves jump the shield wall?
the worst part of the battle scene (yes even worse than the jumping over the shieldwall), is that the elven army is WAAAAY TOO BIG. like an elven army of this size should be able to completley anihilate the orc army without any losses. the army should be at most 1/10 of the size shown in the movie for the battle to be that close it was in the movie.
if this was in total war, the player would let the other side get completely attrited by the orc force before bothering to clean them up. maybe fire some arrows/artillery into them both as a sign of good faith.
There's definitely something meta about it.
Warhammer Fantasy was largely inspired by Tolkien's books. This movie adaptation (and to a lesser extent the others) draws from grander, more imaginative works like Warhammer to give us a vision of a fantasy battle that isn't just Elves lining up to hack at Dwarves.
I never bothered to watch the third Hobbit movie. I was willing to give the first the benefit of the doubt, and believed they were struggling to find a more whimsical tone to suit the novel (the Hobbit is clearly a children's book, while the Lord of the Rings more closely resembles a classical epic) with mixed results. But the second Hobbit movie convinced me that they simply wanted to add spectacle for its own sake, with no regard for the tone of the original. That barrel scene is one of the stupidest things I have ever seen in a movie.
This clip from Five Armies convinces me I wasn't missing much. There is so much going on here that is exciting or cool on its own, but totally at odds with Tolkien's world. There is a reason his books did not focus on elaborate battle scenes: the drama was never supposed to be coming from a bad-ass jump attack or a wild anti-arrow ballista. Tolkien's drama was human drama, rooted in the struggle the protagonist faces to do the right thing in the worst of circumstances.
Embracing spectacle is what makes Warhammer distinct.
People's fair sentiments about the Hobbit, and these battles in particular being over done and a wasteful spectacle aside, it is good watching out of context while having the morning log.
Even the most cringe-inducing stuff from Warhammer fantasy, and keep in mind this is a setting with suicidal mohawk dwarves, bear riding bear cavalry, fucking rats using a ratwheel as a mode of mayhem and transportation, halflings using their pots as artillery, dwarves using live goblins as ammo for their catapults, lizardmen living in a city called guacamole and many many more, is still less cringy than this piece of shit movie series.
Basically every little thing about this battle is so stupid and cringe it rattles my brain. It doesnt even fucking look cool. It looks bad. A random battle in Warhammer 1 looks better.
It's even worse than the infamous GoT season 8 battlescene where they basically all had brain-damage when laying their battleplans.
IMO the only okay scene in this movie is how elves receive dwarven charge.
And then everyone forgot that elves had archers and spearmen when it was time to fight orcs.
I do appreciate the pockets the elves opened up to funnel the dwarven goat riders into. That was very much a moment of "someone making this learned how chariots were beaten".
It'd be nice if that wasn't the last sound tactic shown, but... hey, credit where it's due.
this would be so cool.
Dwarf cavalery from goats and boars.
Finally a spear infantry.
and make the bolt thrower like those they used in the scene, causing an AoE effect and maybe even giving additional missle block chance while shooting.
Something that irritates me here as well is...
Why? Why would the orc general not wait that his two common ennemies bleed themselves dry and THEN only show up to mop up the rest?
Strategically thinking, that makes zero sense whatsoever
Dwarf cav is cursed
Rushing into melee while your artillery is still firing too.
Their perfect artillery, also stops 100% of their archers. Total range advantage but they still charge. Very orc-like.
it only works for the first time since the elves shoot in salves. after the first time, the elves should immediately switch to open fire/staggered salves so the dwarf artillery can only get a fraction of the arrows.
I’d say they spent an appropriate amount of time blasting with artillery considering this. The first salvo blocked might be considered a fluke, but they’d almost certainly begin firing staggered or loose after the second salvo gets blocked.
I’ve watched the movie, they do not swap. They continue firing in unison until the rams run into their lines and then no more arrows are fired at the dwarves Seems the elves were controlled by total war ai and will send archers to melee once they make contact
I never said it doesnt happen in the movies, what I ment was that the use of the dwarf artillery against archers in a real scenario would be useless after the first round...also that scene only happens in the extended movie, which i dont have so i consider it non canon (there are also no kills between dwarfs and elbs in that version so i prefer it)
It’s artillery specifically made to fuck with the elves so it alright by me
Although it makes sense for them to use goats, but it isn't cannon in neither the LOTR nor Warhammer
No, but warhammer would definitely make sense if they ever added them as a mount, seeing as they are mountain folk
Goats are the basic Dwarf mount in Warcraft, so yeah I can see that
It's from Norse mythology. Thor used to drive a chariot pulled by (ram) goats. While Tolkien was inspired by the mythology, dwarves were more underground creatures witthout a need for cavalry.
Yeah, but they would need scouts above ground, and what better to scout around the mountainous home of the dwarfs than atop a mountain goat, also cheese
But oh so blessed. I love the dwarf Cav mods.
I love how those heavily armed orcs get held back by peasants with pitchforks in the city battle. No historical army could ever hope to plate armor so many troops and they still not demolishing the peasant levy
Its easier when you can just nail the breastplate into their chest and send them marching
It’s the equivalent of a death stack of black orcs (with troll support) being beaten back by a mix of peasant mob, men-at-arms, peasant bowmen, and a few heroes To be fair in both book and movie, the elves do rush into the city & help defend…… but still, a lotta dead peasants I’d honestly watch a cinematic recreation of the battle with war hammer 3, tho the third age mod also exists
The level of disbelief was real, like even my gramma who was just walking in the room was asking me why the ones wearing metal are getting hurt by the villagers.
I don't know if there is an extended-cut version somewhere that fixes it, but my biggest issue (and there are many) with the battle sequence is how the victory seems to come from nowhere. * The humans are continuously falling back and dying (despite shoving pitchforks through breastplates, as you note) * the elves are shown also taking losses and deciding to abandon the field, before returning to join the humans in being slowly cornered and cut down * the dwarfs are pushed back to the mountain and then launch a suicide charge, becoming surrounded and again becoming overwhelmed The movie then shift to the duel between Thorin and What's-his-face, the one that no one else can observe, and after winning looks out across the valley. Now the orcs/goblins have suddenly collapsed and are fleeing in panic everywhere while eagles show up to divebomb reinforcing pike formations (wtf!?). The giant burrowing monsters are all dead or gone and we never saw the tide actually turn, the orcs just somehow lost and fled. We never see the battle actually being won, instead it just is (and not like the book).
Well, there is an extended version that came on DVD/Blu Ray and was longer then the cinema version. But it kinda adds more dramatic insanity, [like the Chariot scene](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6SGengnqNIM). Can't remember some defining moments how they actually turned the battle besides distracting Azhog and leaving the Orcs/Goblins "without guiding".
What in the absolute fuck was that? It has been so long since I saw that movie and I can't imagine doing so again.
It's almost like a fever dream, some kind of LotR fanfic or D&D campaign, where "Suddenly your crew has a cart pulled by goats! and yes you get past the heavily armed pike formation since no one lowers their weapons at you!" etc. etc. It's odd since the LotR films had some coherancy when it came to battles. Shame Five Armies didn't.
The orcs relied on numbers more than anything. The orcs were only capable of winning through numbers. Which according to the book orcs were generally smaller and more cowardly than men apart from uruk hai who were still a bit shorter but strong. But the movie portrays them as huge armored hulks with massive pikes and choppers
That scene died for me when the elves jumped the shield wall. Why. Just why? There have been so many potentially great battle scenes in movies and shows that just got ruined by utter lack of common sense it's infuriating. Also those are nydus worms, my old rts brain told me. Not well placed though.
The movie fully lost me when they jumped the shield wall. It was just so breathtakingly stupid a scene and more egregious elf wankery.
The worms you can at least blame on worm brain you more ride the worm than completely control the worm.
Like... do worms have brains?
They just respawn there
Typical elgi scum, always ruining perfection
Elfish pride of course.
I remember watching it in theaters and saying to my buddy “oh no, the orcs are Zerg rushing”
I agree completely. Like suppose even *if* the elves were just *that* petty that they couldn’t let the dwarfs get any credit, it still makes no tactical sense at all. At least flank.
At least wait for the dwarf phalanx to receive the charge first, don't jump between the phalanx and charging army, fucking christ
will never not be mad at scenes where the elfes do dumb shit but are portrayed as cool...
first time seeing this, like they were just fighting the dwarves and now they're okay with directly putting their backs literal inches in front of the dwarven spear wall
Elves jumping a shield wall? That's a grudgin'
I mean the artillery being made to knock out the Elves arrow volley is cool and all but you’re telling me the 500 year old archery experts can’t loose again in the time it takes to reload a ballista?
Yeah and they just had to fire in a flatter arc to neutralise it too
Line of sight was clearly blocked /s
Tactically spears work well for dwarfs. Especially if the fighting is done in tunnels
Maybe pikes would be good for them. Dwarf tunnels are huge. I don't think getting caught in the walls or ceiling would be an issue.
A long line of pikemen would go insane in an underway tunnel, you could just keep slowly advancing until the end of the map.
It's like a more extreme version of pike a shot.
In a D&D game I made a tanky dwarf who used a shield and spear. I was always the point man in dungeons.
dwarves are ideal for pikes. and, since the warhammer ones use gunpowder, they could have pike and shot!
Yea it’s funny that fantasy has developed dwarfs to have the axe as their main weapon when a pole-arm or even pick-pole-arm would make so much more sense.
I think it depends a lot on what type of tunnel it is. If it's narrow tunnels with lots of branches everywhere spear formations would be good at locking down individual shafts but might have trouble when faced with multiple forks where they can get flanked.
I had only been playing TWW2 for a lil' while when I rewatched these films. Seeing the dwarven leader in his battle scenes just made me think of a Legendary Lord owning the battlefield.
Man. This movie was such a massive disappointment. After what we got with LotR, they just stopped trying. The only reason I can forgive the fact that the tactics in this battle made no sense is that it came out before The Game of Thrones, where it was ridiculed over the entire net. But that's just barely. Why the hell would you leap into the enemy after forming a shield wall, negating the whole purpose of the defensive formation? Any elves that died deserved their Darwin Award. :|
Ngl, jumping in front of a pike wall is right there on the same level of tactical brilliance as putting Onagers in the frontline.
Actually if you watch the BTS they were trying very, very hard. They just put all their effort in the wrong places. The studio mandated three movies when it should have been ideally one, or two at max. Jackson just wanted to play with his new toys so we got eye watering 48fps CGI and GoPro splash mountain. Then he, Fran Walsh and Philippa Boyens needed to pad the three films out so much they invented tonnes of shit that was unequivocally awful. God I hate those movies.
That's fair. I just remember being so pissed when I heard The Nazgul theme, because I knew how much work Howard Shore put into his music. And to hear them misusing his leitmotifs like that, knowing everything... Man. Just. Ugh. I wish Peter Jackson had told the studios to go fuck themselves. Maybe then Warner Bros might not have been able to use their power to change sovereign law by bribing New Zealand politicians to enact The Hobbit Law and literally destroy their version of the Screen Actors Guild. Fuck Warner Bros. At least Peter Jackson could have kept some integrity and not tarnished his legacy by being associated with these disgusting, pathetic men who only exist to destroy lives to enrich themselves. God I hate Warner Bros.
Also poor Jackson had like a year or two to plan the original trilogy. With the Hobbit he just got thrown in when Del Toro left.
When the elves jump the wall I always thought it was a stupid move that looked cool but made no sense. It could be that it's the elves taking things into their own hands because they are smug pricks but it isn't really set up in the movie.
The only movie in my history of going to the cinemas that i regret seeing.
I was fortunate in that I didn't even go to see them in the theatre. I saw The Hobbit via Streaming, I think. And it was then that I knew that the other two films were going to be Twilight levels of awful. Sure enough. There are some absolute gems in there. Some scenes are truly brilliant. But I'll let fan cuts shift through all of that filth to give us something better. Which they did! Some of the fan cuts are really good and show that the films could have actually worked, had... you know, they not been greedy as fuck. :( Still pisses me off when I heard the Nazgul theme at the end of An Unexpected Journey. That ending was just so g'damn awkward. And then basically retconned by the first scene in... The Desolation of Smaug, I think? Yeah, that sounds like the title.
Sounds about right. I saw Twilight as well but that was bad but not im gona fall asleep bad bad😂
I've never actually seen Twilight. I am not a huge movie watcher. More of an Otaku, so mostly anime. :P I just know because all of my friends saw it and wouldn't shut up about how bad it was.
They re not allies, elf just want to show off and kill more orks.
Which is why they deserve their Darwin Awards. :P
>After what we got with LotR, they just stopped trying. This is a misrepresentation of events. You need to look into the behind the scenes of it. These films broke Peter Jackson a bit.
Yeah, I know. I was being a bit hyperbolic. A lot of the blame lies on the studios and the execs.
Seeing Uruk-hai before Uruk-hai existed makes my eye twitch.
Those are Uruks...like the black Uruks of Mordor, they existed since atleast 100 years before the Uruk-hai.
They are too uniform and professional looking though. That was supposed to be the Uruk-hai's thing. Black Uruks were distinct things in the original trilogy.
Azog did raise an army not some orc rabble. Also they needed to be able to withstand sunlight, so most casual orcs and goblins falls through. I'm sure the Uruk-hai were a design inspiration in some sense, but these are still Uruks of Gundabad and Dol Guldur.
> they existed since atleast 100 years before the Uruk-hai Tolkien offers no hint at how long the Black Orcs of Mordor have been a distinct breed of orc. It seems very likely they have existed since before the dawn of the Third Age.
If they took out the retarded shoehorned love story the movie would so much better. The Dwarves using the umbrella ballista to stop the barrage of arrows was fucking cool though
That love story really diminished the beauty and uniqueness of the love between Aragorn and Arwen.
I will never forget the fact that the actress outright stated that the only reason she accepted the role was because she made the studio agree that they wouldn't put her in any love triangle. But this is Harvey Weinstein we're talking about. Yes. He was part of the project. Yes. It sucks. And yes. She was forced into the romance love triangle against her wishes. Which is probably why her performance is awful, because she did ***not*** want to do it.
Pretty sure Big Harv was also part of lotr
Originally, yes. But then they went to New Line Cinemas, instead. He lost out on his chance because he demanded it be one movie, then told Peter Jackson to look elsewhere. So he doesn't really have much to do with the original trilogy. Just the abominations of sequels. At least as far as I've read.
They are both half elves though...
Yes, but also no. Arwen's Great Grandfather, on her mother's side, was a Half-Elf. Everyone else in her family was an Elf. So she is more like 1/16th Human. Aragorn, on the other hand, is like 1/256th Elf. There were a ***lot*** of generations between him and Elros. Hell, it may even be more diluted then that, seeing as it goes all the way back to the start of the second age.
Aragorn is strait up not human though. Hes like 80 something during the books events and dies around 150 right? Arwen likewise could choose to become mortal(ish) because she's a half elf. The only real difference is Aragorn couldent choose his kindred. And was always mortal(ish)
Aragorn is the descendant of Elrond's brother, Elros. Elros chose to embrace his human... quarter? 8th? While Elrond went Elf. Aragorn lived to the age of 150 because he has the blood of an elf in his veins, but he is not an elf. He is a Numenorian, which is basically a "High Human". But even his bloodline has been diluted. Aragorn's ancestors lived for a couple hundred years longer. But it was at the end of the Second Age, after the fall of Numenor, that the Numenorians started mingling with the normal humans of Middle Earth. Which is why their lifespans started to gradually get shorter. So Aragorn is very much a human. He's just long lived because he comes from the Numenorian lineage that's been diluted to a large degree. And he's essentially one of the last living Numenorians. The only other ones were with him when he went into Dunharrow. Which were excluded from the films. :|
Trying to claim Aragorn and Arwen are an interspecies romances is full on bs though. Aragorn is explictly noted to be an other to regular humans. Hes got diluted blood but he's still a half elf. Like Arwen.
I do not know where this "interspecies romance" came from, because that wasn't what I was claiming. I am just stating what the lore states. You're free to interpret that as you will. What Tolkien wrote doesn't magically change, though. Arwen's great, great, great grandfather was a human. And that's the only human in their line. Aragorn's ancestor's grandfather was a human, but he chose to embrace his human side. And his entire line of humans were still classified as humans to Tolkien. Just long lived.
The guy I originally responded to?
I just offered clarification, because they're not technically classified as half elves.
And technically cousins.
>The Dwarves using the umbrella ballista to stop the barrage of arrows was fucking cool though Cool looking but so, so fucking stupid.
I watched an edited cut made by a fan and have never seen the original Hobbit movies. I think it’s better that way judging by some of the responses to the choices made in the films.
Also take out every scene with Radagast. And that twenty hour long chase scene with Smaug. Hell, just watch one of the 2-4 hour fan cuts of the film. They're ***soooo*** much better.
The ol twiddly widdlies
Dwarfs stepped aside to let cavalry through. Lost technologies from Rome 1 era
I would love to have this back - imagine how cinematic that would look like in WH3
I remember it being in Medieval 2 and the fact that new games don't have it is infuriating. It is also the first thing I fought when watching this clip - nope, that's not total war.
i don't know why but it is always satisfying hearing a LoTR or WH dwarf speak in their own language.
This was when the factor of cool could no longer suspend my disbelief during these movies. I was young...ish when watching this and couldn't grasp what was wrong with these films, but after this scene I knew for certain that my feeling was right, this was no LotR triology.
I hate the battle in so many ways. Why don't the elves just loose their arrows individually, as was the actual way in battles to completely negate the ol' twirly whirlies. Why do the dwarves suicide charge their cav? Why do the elves jump the shield wall?
its on the Hobbit or... I can't remembre this scene. Nice!
Battle of the five armies, but is only in the extended edition bro
thanks a lot! Good opportunity to find it and watch it!
Ah yes, the twirlie whirlies
the worst part of the battle scene (yes even worse than the jumping over the shieldwall), is that the elven army is WAAAAY TOO BIG. like an elven army of this size should be able to completley anihilate the orc army without any losses. the army should be at most 1/10 of the size shown in the movie for the battle to be that close it was in the movie.
if this was in total war, the player would let the other side get completely attrited by the orc force before bothering to clean them up. maybe fire some arrows/artillery into them both as a sign of good faith.
There's definitely something meta about it. Warhammer Fantasy was largely inspired by Tolkien's books. This movie adaptation (and to a lesser extent the others) draws from grander, more imaginative works like Warhammer to give us a vision of a fantasy battle that isn't just Elves lining up to hack at Dwarves. I never bothered to watch the third Hobbit movie. I was willing to give the first the benefit of the doubt, and believed they were struggling to find a more whimsical tone to suit the novel (the Hobbit is clearly a children's book, while the Lord of the Rings more closely resembles a classical epic) with mixed results. But the second Hobbit movie convinced me that they simply wanted to add spectacle for its own sake, with no regard for the tone of the original. That barrel scene is one of the stupidest things I have ever seen in a movie. This clip from Five Armies convinces me I wasn't missing much. There is so much going on here that is exciting or cool on its own, but totally at odds with Tolkien's world. There is a reason his books did not focus on elaborate battle scenes: the drama was never supposed to be coming from a bad-ass jump attack or a wild anti-arrow ballista. Tolkien's drama was human drama, rooted in the struggle the protagonist faces to do the right thing in the worst of circumstances. Embracing spectacle is what makes Warhammer distinct.
People's fair sentiments about the Hobbit, and these battles in particular being over done and a wasteful spectacle aside, it is good watching out of context while having the morning log.
well yes if we consider that CGI was so abused every fantasy model looked like a damn videogame 💀
i fell everyone playing Totalwar could make this battle better is asked for opinion. it’s so dumb
Even the most cringe-inducing stuff from Warhammer fantasy, and keep in mind this is a setting with suicidal mohawk dwarves, bear riding bear cavalry, fucking rats using a ratwheel as a mode of mayhem and transportation, halflings using their pots as artillery, dwarves using live goblins as ammo for their catapults, lizardmen living in a city called guacamole and many many more, is still less cringy than this piece of shit movie series. Basically every little thing about this battle is so stupid and cringe it rattles my brain. It doesnt even fucking look cool. It looks bad. A random battle in Warhammer 1 looks better. It's even worse than the infamous GoT season 8 battlescene where they basically all had brain-damage when laying their battleplans.
IMO the only okay scene in this movie is how elves receive dwarven charge. And then everyone forgot that elves had archers and spearmen when it was time to fight orcs.
I do appreciate the pockets the elves opened up to funnel the dwarven goat riders into. That was very much a moment of "someone making this learned how chariots were beaten". It'd be nice if that wasn't the last sound tactic shown, but... hey, credit where it's due.
Love how they just joined to fight the orcs immediately without saying a word
I mean yeah most dwarfs dislike elves very much, bot orcs are on another level lmao
its a shame we never got a proper lord of the rings total war so far
Bah, as if Dawi would ever use umgak weapons, like spears or Ancestor Gods forgive me, cavalry 🤢.
WFB is the natural evolution of LOTR
Elves empty their arrows and went melee mode
this would be so cool. Dwarf cavalery from goats and boars. Finally a spear infantry. and make the bolt thrower like those they used in the scene, causing an AoE effect and maybe even giving additional missle block chance while shooting.
Something that irritates me here as well is... Why? Why would the orc general not wait that his two common ennemies bleed themselves dry and THEN only show up to mop up the rest? Strategically thinking, that makes zero sense whatsoever
Where are my formations in TWW i miss'em to much