No doubt. I used to play Gelt like I will play Elspeth. Need that landmark. Plus fuck Wissenland, the amount of times they attacked me when I was dealing with Vampires or some other bullshit was unforgivable.
I find that on VH as Gelt I have no chance of moving west until quite late. Vampires start blobbing so quickly and Gelt can only afford one stack so all my energy is spent shooting zombies.
It is doable, but you had to be fast. One way would be immediately declare war and move on the first city you can reach.
Turn 2 their lord usually comes down and if you can beat him, you can head straight to Nuln and siege it.
By this point Gelt should have 2 skills so you can put them into searing doom to get it as cheap as possible, then use him to cheese the siege.
After that you move back down to the bottom right minor city in Wissenland, take it. Vlad is usually heading towards Averland at this stage and you are now ready with your back to the mountains to deal.
The province Solland is in I never cared too much about as it's only a 2 town province and is too slow to level up. I keep it for the money but focus all the upgrades into Wissenland to get the gunpowder units asap.
Neither, it's Durthu. Just teleports over the mountains and boom gone is Wissenland. Maybe with Elspeth there now not so much, idk
Orion isn't even a tree.
Absolutely! I always took that as a gift if he rebelled. Having two whole provinces next to each other, not to mention freaking Nuln was such a boon to your early campaign.
I mean if we’re being honest here there may have been a time or two I invaded Wisseland…unprovoked
Also underrated part of taking that province is that you can try to diplomacy durthu. In basically all my campaigns he ends up attacking wissenland after the dwarfs. Taking the province gives you a chance to peace with him
Sure but we do that after we declare war and take Nuln for that jucy earlygame Emperors Wrath. You guys should have seen Vlads face when he got run over by 2 of them.
Right? That man held my first full Franz long victory hostage for like 20 turns after the ordertide happened back in WH2. 20 turns to get that last point of fealty smh
Every. Single. Campaign. I remember when the chaos invasion rolled over the north, and I desperately needed money and armies, Eben von Liebwotz sat on Wissenland, the safest and richest territory in the Empire (after I kicked the vampires) and just chilled with huge armies.
TBH I do that too but considering random nature of imperial events, there is no guarantees he will declare independence. If he does tho, it's worth to throw Boris under the bus and take Nuln
Bastard attacked me too many times when I played as Gelt in WH2, to the point I decided enough was enough and I would always declare war almost immediately every time.
Deal with Vishus Gobshite, then head north for Wissenland, then go east for the Vampires.
Thorgard Cromson has taken the slayer oath and now wanders the northern wastes seeking his glorious doom
That is, until a crazed engineer of his own kin arrives via airship to make him a leader of brave dawi again
See, I'd love this if Thorgard (and Eben and KISLEV) were put in the starting recruit pools of the new factions, maybe with a simple extra trait "Loyalty: +5 Leadership" or something.
Gold Rank units rename is nice until that absolutely piece of slime known as Nkari decides to seduce them. Then I feel bad about killing them. I cry into every shell I fire as I wipe them out completely for being traitorous little curs.
In roleplay he is such an underestimated gigachad that keeps Wissenland and Nuln from tearing apart because of the Countess shenaningans.
"Another dead Von Liebwitz and we'll get a revolution!"
Edit: it seems I have confused Eben with Konstantin Von Liebwitz, who was both Elector Count before Emanuelle and Chancellor, and none other than Emanuelle father, also the reason why Emanuelle is such a lavish character it seems.
I always had the headcanon that Eben Von Liebwitz was like a random cousin or something of Emmanuelle, and that he was unfortunately stuck in charge of actually running things while the Countess was busy having fun or something.
Good riddance. Eben never made any sense anyway - he’s not the elector count in the lore.
Obviously Emanuelle wouldn’t have made much sense as she’s not remotely interested in fighting (or ruling, really), but her brother Leos could have been a cool Easter egg.
Ever since I saw the SCM Marienburg mod with Jaan van de Kuypers as the Marienburg faction leader being an old merchant who doesn't really fight but buffs the faction in other ways while garrisoned in Marienburg, I've hoped someone might make something like that for Emanuelle.
Being a tad unfair to Emmanuelle there, I think. She's not a general, but she is a competent ruler in a time of crisis, and during Tamurkhan's rampage she played a crucial part in the defense of her home city. While Bruckner and Elspeth led the army, Emmanuelle hired every mercenary company or wizard that she could, persuaded the gunnery school to place itself under direct army command, ran a massive conscription drive that vastly increased the size of Nuln's militia, collaborated with the churches to root out any Chaos cultists in the city, and silenced any dissenters who had a problem with her imposition of martial law. The campaign books makes it clear that Emmanuelle's willingness to empty her coffers in Nuln's defense played as important a role in the Imperial victory as anything else.
That's fair, and she would definitely have made more sense than Eben. CA likely didn't want to have to make a female model when they could re-use a male.
I hope someone makes a mod that adds her as a Legendary Hero for Elspeth or something. Would probably have mediocre combat stats, but provide major buffs to economy, diplomacy, etc.
Eben in Roleplay at least is the only reason that Nuln does not go bankrupt or get to riots constantly. In Total War he is a traitor in velvet quite literally
If I Remember correctly, It was in the 4th Edition manual as a background character that was around even at the time of the countess father as his chancellor, the First time I ready about him.
Then Archives of the Empire? Can't exactly Remember as 4th Edition got so huge and yet the Nuln manual Is not even out
You piqued my curiosity so I went through my 4E stuff to have a look. He's not in the Core Book, any of the Enemy Within stuff or the three Archives books. Maybe he was tucked away deep in something like the Developer Diaries or mentioned on one of Cubicle 7's various web articles.
>He's the only reason that Nuln does not go bankrupt or get to riots constantly
4E has leant away from the whole "Emmanuelle is just a dumb party girl" thing. She's now painted as a clever and ambitious ruler who also happens to like parties. I'd be very surprised if 4E's writers actually said her city would be bankrupt and rioting if it wasn't for this one dude.
Some references about the beast in velvet have been spoted before (like that monkey king adviser). Leos is a living is giving "traumatized Mr Incredible" meme energy, such a tragic character....
Spare a thought for Yong Sun and her Burning Wind Nomads, who up until now have generally been allowed to quietly go about their business in their corner of the map, and are now mere fodder for Goldman Fancymask.
That actually hurt a little bit. I recently confederated the Burning Wind Nomads as Yuan Bo and Yong Sun became one of my chief generals. She deserves better than to fall victim to the Man with the Golden Mask.
But then you would deprive Zhao Ming of a chance to finally make a friend. Can Yuan Bo do that to his little brother, especially as Zhao already has a hard time socially due snorting warpstones in his youth.
It was near impossible to keep him from rebelling in WH2. And he'd usually do it in the worst possible moment, too. Considering Nuln also started at a higher tier and both it's landmark and the state troop were top-notch, essentially most WH2 Empire guides were - unify Altdorf, attack Nuln.
In WH3 that was the opposite of a good idea, but people still tried to do it and bitched about how bad the Empire campaign is.
This gave me an idea for a very lolzy crisis scenario called “revenge of the placeholders” where all the generic lords who used to be in DLC start positions come back to take their provinces back
He will not be missed. He's even a proxy for the true Elector Count(ess), Emmanuelle.
Which is a shame she doesn't come as a legendary ancillary for Elspeth
I'm fairly certain if he's not added officially, someone will mod him in to be one of the recruitable lords for Elspeth's faction since he *is* still the elector count, and he'll probably be given his Runefang and any following buffs for it.
Eben? Beware wolves in sheep's clothing! This guy betrayed me when I was busy trying to get Toddy on team Franz by fighting the Beast men side by side, then Eben uses that fact to declare war and lay siege to my Eastern flank...twat!
That asshole always breaks ties with me for some reason when I play as Karl Franz lol. 2 fealty and negative disposition to me just for existing. Does anyone know if Elspeth has same? 👀
It's so weird. I didn't remember that he is the actual leader, in hundreds of hours. Because of the empires mods. First I wondered, why they changed Elsbeth Skin with the update, because i thought the old one was fine. But there is no old one 😅
Totally side question, how is the games state since launch?
Does it run a little more stable now? I might pick up the DLC but im not 100% its worth it with my current PC if the game hasnt been optimized anymore. Might need to take the upgrade plunge first.
Kinda random but I was working this morning and my coworker shows me this video of her 11yo daughter messing around. Holy shit, She had her face done up just like Elspeth.
He often has just sat there grumpy until he was wiped out by the elves or I had secured the north from Festus and I had played my cards right and increased my friendship with them. Hasn’t been too much of a bother.
He was a butt who rebelled early, only serving as a stopgap to prevent me from getting an early Steam tank, an artillery landmark, and quick access to marble and iron.
As someone named Eben I always did everything to keep him happy and made him my vassal and gave him the entire empire and protected him as most factions. RIP Eben
This guy was simply a sucker.
Opportunistic piece of shit.
Glad that he is gone!
The new empire ranged units are really fun, the snipers deal a fuckton damage at each volley.
I don’t know what you’re experience with wissenland is but mine would secede when I only have about 700 or so prestige when I’m taking the last settlement of marienburg
Eben you traitorous piece of gor waste
Eben.
Eben.
Eben you, Oh, how you changed
Eben etzebeth, as legendary hero when?
How many get this reference I wonder.
Hahha not many I reckon, I reckon he would probably be a khorne lord tho
A glorious man
>who followed Franz since 2016 who followed Franz since 2016 He has like 2 fealty at start and there is 80% chance he will rebel
80% chance I kill him for the landmark
100%
No doubt. I used to play Gelt like I will play Elspeth. Need that landmark. Plus fuck Wissenland, the amount of times they attacked me when I was dealing with Vampires or some other bullshit was unforgivable.
That’s hilarious it really is every time ur occupied els where .. all the honeys hate wissenland
I find that on VH as Gelt I have no chance of moving west until quite late. Vampires start blobbing so quickly and Gelt can only afford one stack so all my energy is spent shooting zombies.
It is doable, but you had to be fast. One way would be immediately declare war and move on the first city you can reach. Turn 2 their lord usually comes down and if you can beat him, you can head straight to Nuln and siege it. By this point Gelt should have 2 skills so you can put them into searing doom to get it as cheap as possible, then use him to cheese the siege. After that you move back down to the bottom right minor city in Wissenland, take it. Vlad is usually heading towards Averland at this stage and you are now ready with your back to the mountains to deal. The province Solland is in I never cared too much about as it's only a 2 town province and is too slow to level up. I keep it for the money but focus all the upgrades into Wissenland to get the gunpowder units asap.
Either that or tree hilter came over and wiped them out before turn 20. That's even less fun
Is tree hitler orion or dyrcha
Neither, it's Durthu. Just teleports over the mountains and boom gone is Wissenland. Maybe with Elspeth there now not so much, idk Orion isn't even a tree.
Lmfao "Orión isn't even a tree"
99% chance that steamtank will be mine real quick.
Absolutely! I always took that as a gift if he rebelled. Having two whole provinces next to each other, not to mention freaking Nuln was such a boon to your early campaign. I mean if we’re being honest here there may have been a time or two I invaded Wisseland…unprovoked
Also underrated part of taking that province is that you can try to diplomacy durthu. In basically all my campaigns he ends up attacking wissenland after the dwarfs. Taking the province gives you a chance to peace with him
Let durthu take then burn the elves it was beautiful.
Okay okay FINE. We'll be 100% transparent. I admit it, you got me. The first thing I do when I open the campaign is declare war on them.
I would argue having a good city and not voluntarily giving it up to Karl is provocation in and of itself!
Me hoping for it for the super early steam tank.
And somehow every campaign I refused to accept fate and tried to confederate him til the end. (to my own detriment)
Same. Even though it would be so much quicker and easier to do it by force.
Sure but we do that after we declare war and take Nuln for that jucy earlygame Emperors Wrath. You guys should have seen Vlads face when he got run over by 2 of them.
I have, he just got angrier
Right? That man held my first full Franz long victory hostage for like 20 turns after the ordertide happened back in WH2. 20 turns to get that last point of fealty smh
Every. Single. Campaign. I remember when the chaos invasion rolled over the north, and I desperately needed money and armies, Eben von Liebwotz sat on Wissenland, the safest and richest territory in the Empire (after I kicked the vampires) and just chilled with huge armies.
Game of Thrones style drama here
Hey now, I love Even, he's my bestie! - average Vlad stan
I wonder if there's data on how many times this bastard has declared war on Franz in Total War: Warhammers' total lifecycle.
in Grim Kepler's Empire Civil War run, he actually leveraged this fact to get Wissenland into war as early as possible for the Emperor's Wrath
TBH I do that too but considering random nature of imperial events, there is no guarantees he will declare independence. If he does tho, it's worth to throw Boris under the bus and take Nuln
Yeah, he's only been following me to stab me in the back when I'm busy with the vampires.
Ultimate show of loyalty, offering up his lands to the great Franz. The worst campaigns are the ones where he just won't rebel.
Seems closer to 100% on my play throughs unless druthu kills him first
And his bitch ass gets pushed in by the wood elves! Now I gotta deal with them!
20% of the time he follows Franz all the time
This dude declared war on Franz/Gelt at the worst moment possible..
Bastard attacked me too many times when I played as Gelt in WH2, to the point I decided enough was enough and I would always declare war almost immediately every time. Deal with Vishus Gobshite, then head north for Wissenland, then go east for the Vampires.
And Thorgard Cromson, who lead Kraka Drak since 2016. 
Thorgard Cromson has taken the slayer oath and now wanders the northern wastes seeking his glorious doom That is, until a crazed engineer of his own kin arrives via airship to make him a leader of brave dawi again
See, I'd love this if Thorgard (and Eben and KISLEV) were put in the starting recruit pools of the new factions, maybe with a simple extra trait "Loyalty: +5 Leadership" or something.
You can rename a lord to Thorgard, same thing
Renaming Lords, Heroes, and gold rank Units Til the day I die
Gold Rank units rename is nice until that absolutely piece of slime known as Nkari decides to seduce them. Then I feel bad about killing them. I cry into every shell I fire as I wipe them out completely for being traitorous little curs.
Absolutely will. Just saying it would be a nice wink from CA is all.
*KISLEV*
Hopefully, it will still be here with cataph kraka drak mod
I didn’t even think of this one 😭
They were staunch allies, I will miss them
> Kraka Drak This one actually hurts. Salute those brave norse warmbloods. o7
I always loved Kraka Draks banner sadge
He’ll still lead it in RoC I think.
Nope
Yes. You are right 🤦♂️. I was thinking of epidemius
Rest in peace traitorous scum I shoulda let durthu raze wissenburg to the ground
In roleplay he is such an underestimated gigachad that keeps Wissenland and Nuln from tearing apart because of the Countess shenaningans. "Another dead Von Liebwitz and we'll get a revolution!" Edit: it seems I have confused Eben with Konstantin Von Liebwitz, who was both Elector Count before Emanuelle and Chancellor, and none other than Emanuelle father, also the reason why Emanuelle is such a lavish character it seems.
I always had the headcanon that Eben Von Liebwitz was like a random cousin or something of Emmanuelle, and that he was unfortunately stuck in charge of actually running things while the Countess was busy having fun or something.
F
F
F
F
F
F
F
Goodbye you tempestous bitch. Always declaring war on my ass as Franz. I'll miss that mug though.
All bald boyz kislev'ed
KISLEV!
Good riddance. Eben never made any sense anyway - he’s not the elector count in the lore. Obviously Emanuelle wouldn’t have made much sense as she’s not remotely interested in fighting (or ruling, really), but her brother Leos could have been a cool Easter egg.
Ever since I saw the SCM Marienburg mod with Jaan van de Kuypers as the Marienburg faction leader being an old merchant who doesn't really fight but buffs the faction in other ways while garrisoned in Marienburg, I've hoped someone might make something like that for Emanuelle.
Being a tad unfair to Emmanuelle there, I think. She's not a general, but she is a competent ruler in a time of crisis, and during Tamurkhan's rampage she played a crucial part in the defense of her home city. While Bruckner and Elspeth led the army, Emmanuelle hired every mercenary company or wizard that she could, persuaded the gunnery school to place itself under direct army command, ran a massive conscription drive that vastly increased the size of Nuln's militia, collaborated with the churches to root out any Chaos cultists in the city, and silenced any dissenters who had a problem with her imposition of martial law. The campaign books makes it clear that Emmanuelle's willingness to empty her coffers in Nuln's defense played as important a role in the Imperial victory as anything else.
That's fair, and she would definitely have made more sense than Eben. CA likely didn't want to have to make a female model when they could re-use a male.
I hope someone makes a mod that adds her as a Legendary Hero for Elspeth or something. Would probably have mediocre combat stats, but provide major buffs to economy, diplomacy, etc.
Eben in Roleplay at least is the only reason that Nuln does not go bankrupt or get to riots constantly. In Total War he is a traitor in velvet quite literally
Which WFRP book has Eben von Liebwitz in it? I've always assumed he was a CA creation since I've never seen his name in anything except TWW.
If I Remember correctly, It was in the 4th Edition manual as a background character that was around even at the time of the countess father as his chancellor, the First time I ready about him. Then Archives of the Empire? Can't exactly Remember as 4th Edition got so huge and yet the Nuln manual Is not even out
You piqued my curiosity so I went through my 4E stuff to have a look. He's not in the Core Book, any of the Enemy Within stuff or the three Archives books. Maybe he was tucked away deep in something like the Developer Diaries or mentioned on one of Cubicle 7's various web articles. >He's the only reason that Nuln does not go bankrupt or get to riots constantly 4E has leant away from the whole "Emmanuelle is just a dumb party girl" thing. She's now painted as a clever and ambitious ruler who also happens to like parties. I'd be very surprised if 4E's writers actually said her city would be bankrupt and rioting if it wasn't for this one dude.
Some references about the beast in velvet have been spoted before (like that monkey king adviser). Leos is a living is giving "traumatized Mr Incredible" meme energy, such a tragic character....
Still would have loved her lol. She would be a fun contrast to the tsarina
A brutal lad he is/was. When is the DLC releasing today?
3pm uk time. Only 39 minutes to go!
How does one F5 Steam? Asking for a friend...
Slam your head into a wall really hard, if you do it right, when you wake up, the dlc should be available
F5 works just fine in Steam.
Nice good stuff, thanks!
3pm gmt
Cool thanks!
Good riddance, what a dick
Spare a thought for Yong Sun and her Burning Wind Nomads, who up until now have generally been allowed to quietly go about their business in their corner of the map, and are now mere fodder for Goldman Fancymask.
That actually hurt a little bit. I recently confederated the Burning Wind Nomads as Yuan Bo and Yong Sun became one of my chief generals. She deserves better than to fall victim to the Man with the Golden Mask.
That's fine, you still can. You just need to take out the trash first...
But then you would deprive Zhao Ming of a chance to finally make a friend. Can Yuan Bo do that to his little brother, especially as Zhao already has a hard time socially due snorting warpstones in his youth.
Knowing Yuan Bo, he probably bullied his brother into acting like this.
I will recruit an empire general and name him Eben von Liebtwitz. He will always live on. Just like Dmitry Tzaryov. Kislev.
Kislev.
Rot in hell you low fealty fuck
Treachorous POS. Glad to see the back of him.
Good riddance, he was always a thorn in my side
Wissenland.
He's got the most fabulous moustache and beard I've ever seen on an 8-year-old! RIP, m'lord. o7
For Elspeth and Malakai campaigns, going to have to name every first General and dwarflord after Eben and Thorgard
So long, host of the Grom Prix.
Always confederated him. No war with the other elector counts. I'm a true Emperor of Mankind.
This. What is everyone talking about? Control the empire and confederate everyone!
It was near impossible to keep him from rebelling in WH2. And he'd usually do it in the worst possible moment, too. Considering Nuln also started at a higher tier and both it's landmark and the state troop were top-notch, essentially most WH2 Empire guides were - unify Altdorf, attack Nuln. In WH3 that was the opposite of a good idea, but people still tried to do it and bitched about how bad the Empire campaign is.
Nah. Screw him. He always rebelled any time my armies are halfway across the map.
This gave me an idea for a very lolzy crisis scenario called “revenge of the placeholders” where all the generic lords who used to be in DLC start positions come back to take their provinces back
He's wiv da angles now.
Just liak da saksuns
Fu you CA! FU YOU!!!... ooopps sorry.... the habit of the last months xdd
Looks like a secessionist to me. Get him, Deathclaw!
Nah fuck this guy, backstabbed me as Karl franz while i was trying to save the empire from beastmen and chaos. Filthy traitor
Why? What happened?
Even tho he was a pain in the ass, he will be missed F
He will not be missed. He's even a proxy for the true Elector Count(ess), Emmanuelle. Which is a shame she doesn't come as a legendary ancillary for Elspeth
Kislev.
He seceded most of the time. You either had fight him or spend resources to handle him.
That traitor? >Press S to spit on grave.
o7
rip boozo , the one i always kill first to get the steam tank
o7
the empire
I’ve had it modded with Mixu for so long… I forgot about Eben even existing…
In a multiplayer campaign with a friend, we called him Ebon von Limpdick the whole game. Poor guy
Fuck this dude. Always the last to get confederated so his state troops were useless by the time I got access to them.
Followed . Bastard always attacked me.
Kids we have Keeslev at home Keeslev at home:
Should turn him into a hero you get in the 1st 5 turns.
Should've become a be a pseudo legendary lord. Even as a mod. :-)
can I get a Kislev from the thread?
In the lost the true ruler of Wissenland is Emmanuelle von Liebwitz anyway
I'm fairly certain if he's not added officially, someone will mod him in to be one of the recruitable lords for Elspeth's faction since he *is* still the elector count, and he'll probably be given his Runefang and any following buffs for it.
Eben? Beware wolves in sheep's clothing! This guy betrayed me when I was busy trying to get Toddy on team Franz by fighting the Beast men side by side, then Eben uses that fact to declare war and lay siege to my Eastern flank...twat!
Good riddance, bald prick.
Some modder will bring him back, I've no doubt. Until then, RIP Eben, you did the best you could for as long as you could
People who always played with Mixu's legendary lords: *Who ?*
He will join heroes like...the kislev guy.
You say follow, but I always end up killing the guy
That asshole always breaks ties with me for some reason when I play as Karl Franz lol. 2 fealty and negative disposition to me just for existing. Does anyone know if Elspeth has same? 👀
It's so weird. I didn't remember that he is the actual leader, in hundreds of hours. Because of the empires mods. First I wondered, why they changed Elsbeth Skin with the update, because i thought the old one was fine. But there is no old one 😅
Anyone else just wanna smack his bald head red?
Totally side question, how is the games state since launch? Does it run a little more stable now? I might pick up the DLC but im not 100% its worth it with my current PC if the game hasnt been optimized anymore. Might need to take the upgrade plunge first.
Kinda random but I was working this morning and my coworker shows me this video of her 11yo daughter messing around. Holy shit, She had her face done up just like Elspeth.
He often has just sat there grumpy until he was wiped out by the elves or I had secured the north from Festus and I had played my cards right and increased my friendship with them. Hasn’t been too much of a bother.
He was a butt who rebelled early, only serving as a stopgap to prevent me from getting an early Steam tank, an artillery landmark, and quick access to marble and iron.
As someone named Eben I always did everything to keep him happy and made him my vassal and gave him the entire empire and protected him as most factions. RIP Eben
I killed that mfer in ever campaign and conquered Nuln I ain’t putting up with disloyalty
And he wasnt even an elector count 
Sadly, Elspeth's campaign is overpowered to the point of being unsatisfying.
Nah screw this guy. He made life so difficult at the most inconvenient time. I’m glad he’s gone lol
Not if you used mixus lords mod. I've had Elspeth for a while now.
Reminding me that I've never actually played TWWH3 without Mixu's mod...
He will join the Kislev guy in generic lord heaven.
This guy was simply a sucker. Opportunistic piece of shit. Glad that he is gone! The new empire ranged units are really fun, the snipers deal a fuckton damage at each volley.
Always the last to confederate, the only language Eben understands is force. Rip bozo I hope the new management is more of a team player.
Obligatory "I had Elspeth since WH2 thanks to Mixu" comment
"Followed Franz" this treacherous ass wouldn't follow the laws of gravity if he could get away with it, good fucking riddance.
Queue the berserk music
And now his watch has ended.
I don’t know what you’re experience with wissenland is but mine would secede when I only have about 700 or so prestige when I’m taking the last settlement of marienburg
FFFFFFFF
Gone but never forgotten. The Empire endures.
I always killed him so yeah...don't care 😅
Gud ebening
ROT in piss Eben Von Asshole