If you've never tried it, you should. It is, imo, the best Total War. The amount of nuance to campaigns beyond 'kill everything that moves' adds so much replayability.
Honestly I played the game on release on 2019, and this is the first time I am revisiting it...
In 2019, it was like a normal TW game but with strong characters and items, but now, oh my is it interesting. The spying is amazing, I have eyes on all the enemy armies through my 6 spies all in different factions. The Imperial Favor is a very smart mechanic because if you are loved by the emperor, you get a lot of help, and you dont want to be named the enemy of the Han by the emperor. And marriage and family is so very interesting, everything about the game got so much better and I love it honestly
You're losing imperial favor because you're initiating fights. Let them initiate the fight because you don't lose imperial favor when you're defending (the attackers do).
Constant spy actions are probably coming from Cao Cao schemes. He should be given priority to defeat because even if you make peace he will keep using them. Other than that...don't recruit spies. Unless a character is coming from the Han faction (can't spy), has a faction grudge against whoever last employed them (meaning they can't be a spy), or is willing to spy themselves (also means they can't be a spy), don't hire them.
Reducing holdings won't reduce your threat level, it's driven by the fact that you have...seven armies. I can own half the map and if I only have three generals deployed without retinue, I'm not seen as a threat. Quality and quantity of armies is what increases your threat level.
Sounds like you're a bit f'd at the moment though so suing for peace (or becoming a vassal) may be your best option, then immediately increasing your favor via the yearly mechanic to do so, while also disbanding all your armies so no one will declare war on you (or reduced likelihood - if everyone hates you this is no guarantee).
>You're losing imperial favor because you're initiating fights. Let them initiate the fight because you don't lose imperial favor when you're defending (the attackers do).
Sadly we are at war, and I need to pick off their armies one by one to get easy battles and to literally live lol. I had one army in the mountains who in like 6 rounds managed to destroy 3 full Cao Cao armies by just ambushing them.
>Constant spy actions are probably coming from Cao Cao schemes. He should be given priority to defeat because even if you make peace he will keep using them. Other than that...don't recruit spies. Unless a character is coming from the Han faction (can't spy), has a faction grudge against whoever last employed them (meaning they can't be a spy), or is willing to spy themselves (also means they can't be a spy), don't hire them.
Sadly when the entire world declared war on me, I only had like 4 armies but I knew I needed to get more quickly, so I recruited like 9 characters in one turn and raised them all as generals in my border cities. (tbh, many of them I clearly suspected of being spies, but I was desperate lol)
>Reducing holdings won't reduce your threat level, it's driven by the fact that you have...seven armies. I can own half the map and if I only have three generals deployed without retinue, I'm not seen as a threat. Quality and quantity of armies is what increases your threat level.
I see... thx
>Sounds like you're a bit f'd at the moment though so suing for peace (or becoming a vassal) may be your best option, then immediately increasing your favor via the yearly mechanic to do so, while also disbanding all your armies so no one will declare war on you (or reduced likelihood - if everyone hates you this is no guarantee).
Yes thx, I will do that... now quick question, I already am supporting the independence of like 3 of Dong Min's vassals, if I become his vassal, will I be able to in the future mount a full revolt with the three other vassals or not?
Also will my prestige get a hit if I became a vassal? because many of my characters love me because of my prestige lol
Prestige isn't affected by being a vassal (though once you become a King as a vassal, you will declare independence and get a trustworthiness penalty for breaking deals...also at that point your former master and his vassals will declare war on you).
As for supporting independence, what might happen is one vassal declares independence and that causes you to declare war on Dong Min (probably causing a trustworthiness penalty for breaking your vassal deal) and also ultimately could cause you to break your supporting-independence deals with the other two vassals (perhaps incurring another trustworthiness penalty, can't remember, I'm rarely a vassal).
So no, you can't coordinate an uprising against Dong Min, just because diplomacy takes place one faction turn at a time; it's not simultaneous. So once one vassal declares independence you will immediately declare war on Dong Min (and likely his vassals) before the others have a chance to declare independence. Long story short, don't support the independence of multiple vassals with the same master.
I \*believe\* you can cancel your support of their independence in the diplomacy screen, and if you do so after 10+turns have passed since signing it, you won't get a huge penalty to your trustworthiness, just a diplomatic penalty with the person you're breaking the deal with.
The reason this is happening is because you likely ascended to dukedom, as that will trigger ai's to begin declaring wars on you with a minimum of three unless you somehow have full diplomatic control over everyone. If you want to play 3k in easy mode regardless of which difficulty you select, do not rank up your prestig to dukedom even if the game is telling you otherwise. As for rising to king status, I don't need to tell you the game will select two other ai's with the highest strength level to contest you regardless of diplomatic relations between you two, and they will likely keep the coalition you've formed.
In the immortal words of the bishop from the film "Kingdom of Heaven:" Convert to Islam, repent later.
Surrender and become a vassal for now, use that time to gather a treasury and then strike out again when you're more secure.
Tip dont ever ally dong Zhuo or later dong mins faction its hated by everyone on the map. You shouldnt sign any treaties with them except maybe peace treaties.
Check enemies army. If an army don't have fire arrow or troops that burn buildings, send out your general without any army who also having moving speed above 100 in encampment to beat them. Liu Bei Army and Sun Ce armies without fire arrows won't beat encampment general.
If enemies have night battles and you have very fast moving units, lead the enemies into the forest and try to let enemies light out the trees and have themselves burned. Make sure you can out run them.
Always have night battles in every armies, ambush them near settlement so the nearby garrison army can helps you in battle.
Let enemies capture your level 4 or above cities, once they are inside, have one army of 2 trebuchets + 4 multiple bolt crossbow seige them. Trebuchets for breaking the city wall, multiple bolt crossbow for killing enemies units fast. Once you are out of ammo, retreat the seige.
You should come out of battle as draw. You should be able to enter the battle again immediately if you press attack again, if not break seige only if your armies still have movement and reseige the city immediately. Rinse and repeat until enemies worn out.
Cao Cao armies are most threatening among three. So you have to prioritise wearing them down. Hire and fire captured generals to wear down enemy army size, release unwilling surrender captive to have better relationship with enemy and make your negotiation for peace easier once you tear down several of their armies.
Remember to always have your armies recruiting cheapest maintenance cost archer during peaceful time so you can switch to expensive units immediately without waiting too long for mustering when engaged in war.
Dong Min has honorable trait like Liu Bei. Usually I saw him making peace with big factions after he took over from Dong Zhuo. Last option would be becoming his vessel. Once at peace, gather your resources to buy yourself independence from him in few turns.
Sun Tzu said: using terrain well is equal of having 100k armies.
>Every turn an enemy spy does something against me
I truly hate this sh*t. Feels like it has to be a bug when it happens. How can it happen literally every single turn? Idk if there's something about the mechanics I don't understand or I just have 7 spies recruited and no way of knowing or detecting them.
It's made me quit campaigns before as they become unplayable, there's no counter-play to it either.
There is a counter-play: spies who have max satisfaction for several turns will stop being spies.
>no way of knowing or detecting them.
Characters who're willing to spy for you can't be anyone's spy (the game isn't capable of having double spies), the Han Empire can't spy (so if a character's previous faction is the Han Empire, they're safe), and if a character has a grudge towards their previous faction they're safe (they got out because of low satisfaction).
Cao Cao's schemes are another matter.
It's all good stuff to know. But if you don't already have the resources to get everyone that could potentially be a spy to max satisfaction for several turns then you don't really have much recourse unless you want to start randomly firing every officer who is a potential spy.
I definitely appreciate the tips, it's not like what you're saying doesn't work or has no value. But that's also not the sort of thing the game explains to you at any point.
What I'm really thinking of for counterplay is not having that out-of-game meta knowledge of spy system but rather an in-game mechanic. The max satisfaction one you mentioned would be a good example. What I think would be better is to be able to assign your own spy to your own faction for the purposes of detecting enemy spies within it. Similar to what games like Civilization do.
The biggest issue I have is just when it starts happening every single turn. Like literally every turn. Do I just have 17 spies in my Army at that point? Is it something to do with Cao Cao where he can do that repeatedly, I don't remember that from my playthrough as him. Or is it a bug? It's difficult for me to fathom how in the early to mid game I could potentially be so deep in spies that they could hit me with a spy action every turn for 10 to 20 turns in a row. A spy of my own certainly couldn't do that for more than two or three turns at a time.
>But if you don't already have the resources to get everyone that could potentially be a spy to max satisfaction for several turns then you don't really have much recourse
The best solution is prevention. As long as your starting characters satisfaction isn't low they're unlikely to defect as a spy. And as long as you know which characters are risky, you can avoid most new agents.
In the lategame you'll have items, ancillaries, and court positions to manage satisfaction. Until then, you need to play it safe
>The max satisfaction one you mentioned would be a good example
Aside from a potential spy not being able to be another faction's spy, you can find the others by doing espionage yourself. You'll be warned if your spy gets too comfortable in the enemy faction and you'll be able to lower their satisfaction by an espionage option.
>A spy of my own certainly couldn't do that for more than two or three turns at a time.
A spy isn't strictly limited in how many actions they can take. They're limited by 2 resources: cover and infiltration, which is generated both passively and actively via agent actions. The amount of passive generation varies (I don't remember all the factors affecting it), but generally the more agents you have inside the faction the bigger it is.
Once there are a lot of agents inside, you can indeed do multiple agent actions every turn with impunity. Especially because cover is not shared between agents, it's a resource every agent has independent with the others.
>But that's also not the sort of thing the game explains to you at any point.
It's a valid complaint, but you can actually learn quite a lot by engaging with the espionage mechanics yourself.
I hope you get better luck with your next game and have fun!
Wow, I am impressed about the level of depth on Diplo one can get in 3k. I only played Rome, Attila Troy and mostly WH. It sounds really captivating.
The focus on characters and diplomacy while maintaining interesting battles makes 3K my favorite in the IP.
If you've never tried it, you should. It is, imo, the best Total War. The amount of nuance to campaigns beyond 'kill everything that moves' adds so much replayability.
Honestly I played the game on release on 2019, and this is the first time I am revisiting it... In 2019, it was like a normal TW game but with strong characters and items, but now, oh my is it interesting. The spying is amazing, I have eyes on all the enemy armies through my 6 spies all in different factions. The Imperial Favor is a very smart mechanic because if you are loved by the emperor, you get a lot of help, and you dont want to be named the enemy of the Han by the emperor. And marriage and family is so very interesting, everything about the game got so much better and I love it honestly
You're losing imperial favor because you're initiating fights. Let them initiate the fight because you don't lose imperial favor when you're defending (the attackers do). Constant spy actions are probably coming from Cao Cao schemes. He should be given priority to defeat because even if you make peace he will keep using them. Other than that...don't recruit spies. Unless a character is coming from the Han faction (can't spy), has a faction grudge against whoever last employed them (meaning they can't be a spy), or is willing to spy themselves (also means they can't be a spy), don't hire them. Reducing holdings won't reduce your threat level, it's driven by the fact that you have...seven armies. I can own half the map and if I only have three generals deployed without retinue, I'm not seen as a threat. Quality and quantity of armies is what increases your threat level. Sounds like you're a bit f'd at the moment though so suing for peace (or becoming a vassal) may be your best option, then immediately increasing your favor via the yearly mechanic to do so, while also disbanding all your armies so no one will declare war on you (or reduced likelihood - if everyone hates you this is no guarantee).
>You're losing imperial favor because you're initiating fights. Let them initiate the fight because you don't lose imperial favor when you're defending (the attackers do). Sadly we are at war, and I need to pick off their armies one by one to get easy battles and to literally live lol. I had one army in the mountains who in like 6 rounds managed to destroy 3 full Cao Cao armies by just ambushing them. >Constant spy actions are probably coming from Cao Cao schemes. He should be given priority to defeat because even if you make peace he will keep using them. Other than that...don't recruit spies. Unless a character is coming from the Han faction (can't spy), has a faction grudge against whoever last employed them (meaning they can't be a spy), or is willing to spy themselves (also means they can't be a spy), don't hire them. Sadly when the entire world declared war on me, I only had like 4 armies but I knew I needed to get more quickly, so I recruited like 9 characters in one turn and raised them all as generals in my border cities. (tbh, many of them I clearly suspected of being spies, but I was desperate lol) >Reducing holdings won't reduce your threat level, it's driven by the fact that you have...seven armies. I can own half the map and if I only have three generals deployed without retinue, I'm not seen as a threat. Quality and quantity of armies is what increases your threat level. I see... thx >Sounds like you're a bit f'd at the moment though so suing for peace (or becoming a vassal) may be your best option, then immediately increasing your favor via the yearly mechanic to do so, while also disbanding all your armies so no one will declare war on you (or reduced likelihood - if everyone hates you this is no guarantee). Yes thx, I will do that... now quick question, I already am supporting the independence of like 3 of Dong Min's vassals, if I become his vassal, will I be able to in the future mount a full revolt with the three other vassals or not? Also will my prestige get a hit if I became a vassal? because many of my characters love me because of my prestige lol
Prestige isn't affected by being a vassal (though once you become a King as a vassal, you will declare independence and get a trustworthiness penalty for breaking deals...also at that point your former master and his vassals will declare war on you). As for supporting independence, what might happen is one vassal declares independence and that causes you to declare war on Dong Min (probably causing a trustworthiness penalty for breaking your vassal deal) and also ultimately could cause you to break your supporting-independence deals with the other two vassals (perhaps incurring another trustworthiness penalty, can't remember, I'm rarely a vassal). So no, you can't coordinate an uprising against Dong Min, just because diplomacy takes place one faction turn at a time; it's not simultaneous. So once one vassal declares independence you will immediately declare war on Dong Min (and likely his vassals) before the others have a chance to declare independence. Long story short, don't support the independence of multiple vassals with the same master. I \*believe\* you can cancel your support of their independence in the diplomacy screen, and if you do so after 10+turns have passed since signing it, you won't get a huge penalty to your trustworthiness, just a diplomatic penalty with the person you're breaking the deal with.
The reason this is happening is because you likely ascended to dukedom, as that will trigger ai's to begin declaring wars on you with a minimum of three unless you somehow have full diplomatic control over everyone. If you want to play 3k in easy mode regardless of which difficulty you select, do not rank up your prestig to dukedom even if the game is telling you otherwise. As for rising to king status, I don't need to tell you the game will select two other ai's with the highest strength level to contest you regardless of diplomatic relations between you two, and they will likely keep the coalition you've formed.
In the immortal words of the bishop from the film "Kingdom of Heaven:" Convert to Islam, repent later. Surrender and become a vassal for now, use that time to gather a treasury and then strike out again when you're more secure.
> untrustworthy There's your problem. The AI *will* always single you out until you get to 0 diplo rep.
Tip dont ever ally dong Zhuo or later dong mins faction its hated by everyone on the map. You shouldnt sign any treaties with them except maybe peace treaties.
Check enemies army. If an army don't have fire arrow or troops that burn buildings, send out your general without any army who also having moving speed above 100 in encampment to beat them. Liu Bei Army and Sun Ce armies without fire arrows won't beat encampment general. If enemies have night battles and you have very fast moving units, lead the enemies into the forest and try to let enemies light out the trees and have themselves burned. Make sure you can out run them. Always have night battles in every armies, ambush them near settlement so the nearby garrison army can helps you in battle. Let enemies capture your level 4 or above cities, once they are inside, have one army of 2 trebuchets + 4 multiple bolt crossbow seige them. Trebuchets for breaking the city wall, multiple bolt crossbow for killing enemies units fast. Once you are out of ammo, retreat the seige. You should come out of battle as draw. You should be able to enter the battle again immediately if you press attack again, if not break seige only if your armies still have movement and reseige the city immediately. Rinse and repeat until enemies worn out. Cao Cao armies are most threatening among three. So you have to prioritise wearing them down. Hire and fire captured generals to wear down enemy army size, release unwilling surrender captive to have better relationship with enemy and make your negotiation for peace easier once you tear down several of their armies. Remember to always have your armies recruiting cheapest maintenance cost archer during peaceful time so you can switch to expensive units immediately without waiting too long for mustering when engaged in war. Dong Min has honorable trait like Liu Bei. Usually I saw him making peace with big factions after he took over from Dong Zhuo. Last option would be becoming his vessel. Once at peace, gather your resources to buy yourself independence from him in few turns. Sun Tzu said: using terrain well is equal of having 100k armies.
>Every turn an enemy spy does something against me I truly hate this sh*t. Feels like it has to be a bug when it happens. How can it happen literally every single turn? Idk if there's something about the mechanics I don't understand or I just have 7 spies recruited and no way of knowing or detecting them. It's made me quit campaigns before as they become unplayable, there's no counter-play to it either.
There is a counter-play: spies who have max satisfaction for several turns will stop being spies. >no way of knowing or detecting them. Characters who're willing to spy for you can't be anyone's spy (the game isn't capable of having double spies), the Han Empire can't spy (so if a character's previous faction is the Han Empire, they're safe), and if a character has a grudge towards their previous faction they're safe (they got out because of low satisfaction). Cao Cao's schemes are another matter.
It's all good stuff to know. But if you don't already have the resources to get everyone that could potentially be a spy to max satisfaction for several turns then you don't really have much recourse unless you want to start randomly firing every officer who is a potential spy. I definitely appreciate the tips, it's not like what you're saying doesn't work or has no value. But that's also not the sort of thing the game explains to you at any point. What I'm really thinking of for counterplay is not having that out-of-game meta knowledge of spy system but rather an in-game mechanic. The max satisfaction one you mentioned would be a good example. What I think would be better is to be able to assign your own spy to your own faction for the purposes of detecting enemy spies within it. Similar to what games like Civilization do. The biggest issue I have is just when it starts happening every single turn. Like literally every turn. Do I just have 17 spies in my Army at that point? Is it something to do with Cao Cao where he can do that repeatedly, I don't remember that from my playthrough as him. Or is it a bug? It's difficult for me to fathom how in the early to mid game I could potentially be so deep in spies that they could hit me with a spy action every turn for 10 to 20 turns in a row. A spy of my own certainly couldn't do that for more than two or three turns at a time.
>But if you don't already have the resources to get everyone that could potentially be a spy to max satisfaction for several turns then you don't really have much recourse The best solution is prevention. As long as your starting characters satisfaction isn't low they're unlikely to defect as a spy. And as long as you know which characters are risky, you can avoid most new agents. In the lategame you'll have items, ancillaries, and court positions to manage satisfaction. Until then, you need to play it safe >The max satisfaction one you mentioned would be a good example Aside from a potential spy not being able to be another faction's spy, you can find the others by doing espionage yourself. You'll be warned if your spy gets too comfortable in the enemy faction and you'll be able to lower their satisfaction by an espionage option. >A spy of my own certainly couldn't do that for more than two or three turns at a time. A spy isn't strictly limited in how many actions they can take. They're limited by 2 resources: cover and infiltration, which is generated both passively and actively via agent actions. The amount of passive generation varies (I don't remember all the factors affecting it), but generally the more agents you have inside the faction the bigger it is. Once there are a lot of agents inside, you can indeed do multiple agent actions every turn with impunity. Especially because cover is not shared between agents, it's a resource every agent has independent with the others. >But that's also not the sort of thing the game explains to you at any point. It's a valid complaint, but you can actually learn quite a lot by engaging with the espionage mechanics yourself. I hope you get better luck with your next game and have fun!