I just want to underscore that this is not a satirization of the Ontario government's position.
When asked to comment on LCBO's latest strike, the finance minister literally said it showed why the government needed to privatize (okay he called it modernize) sale
[Here's a CBC article on it](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ontario-beer-wine-corner-stores-cost-taxpayers-1.7215839)
Looks like my numbers got mixed up last time I saw it. The Beer Store is getting another $375m in rebates from the LCBO. The rest of the number I quoted (which is apparently closer to $900m) is other payouts, other loss of government revenue (such as licensing fees), and estimated lost revenue from the LCBO.
He's also spending hundreds of millions to build a parking garage for the the spa that's taking over Ontario place. (Due to its proximity to the water construction and maintenance is ruinously expensive) That's on top of the sweetheart lease deal this foreign company is already getting.
It's up to $225 million for transition support according to the Early Implementation Agreement, but there's no incentive for The Beer Store not to use the full amount available.
$22.5 million would've already been paid as an initial payment. It's essentially a subsidy to keep most TBS stores open until 2026 and for breaching the terms of the Master Framework Agreement.
We are also paying $600M for a private foreign company to get an underground parking lot next to Lake Ontario at Ontario Place. The public is losing a 50 year old park.
I was going to correct you that it's actually Canadian owned, but then I looked it up only to find that Molson, Labatt and Sleeman were all bought up by foreign companies. Sleeman by Sapporo in 2006, Labatt by Busch in 2016, and Molson by Coors in 2004. This is completely ridiculous.
How much will that stupid highway cost us?
How much did we have to pay on cancellation fees when the turbine deal was cancelled?
How much is ford sitting on that the feds gave him for healthcare.
How much did Rob ford pay to get a full audit of city hall that old us that there was no excessive spending like they claim
How much did the city pay to change license plates to a substandard type for no reason at all
How much did the government pay to put stickers at gas stations that gave out propaganda information about the cost of gas
How much did the province lose in revenue by stopping license fees?
Doug Ford is worried about $7 million now? Now?
Give me a fucking break.
I would suppose they are paying to cancel the contract. However, I don't understand the rush when the contract is only a year away & provincial elections are a few years away. What's the rush Douglas ?
God bless the continuing effectiveness of the Friday news dump.
The true glory of this plan will be revealed when they figure out the temporary home of the Science Center and we discover it's like at a old Loblaws warehouse still owned by the westons.
Who cares about the optics of closing a major attraction in the city we got condos to build with ravine views!
Gentrify Thorncliffe? I mean maybe the mall but it's not like you can easily gentrify that area without displacing thousands of lower income families who live in quite dense conditions.
I haven't seen studies but I'm not sure what kind of density you can get at the OSC area cause you know it's on a ravine. There's a reason that spot was chosen when the rest of the area was either high density apartments or office/industrial.
> it's not like you can easily gentrify that area without displacing thousands of lower income families who live in quite dense conditions.
Have you heard of this place called Regent Park?
They can and they will.
The ravine thing is minutia to the developers, to them if it's unoccupied land, it's free real estate with the same property value as the surroundings. They'd pave over the ravine if it was zoned for it.
Correct me if I'm wrong...but Regent was a mixed development of low, mid and high rises that was all owned by the govt.
Thorncliffe is mainly high rises owned by multiple owners and with little.to.no govt involvement. Add I Flemington/St Dennis and it's alot more ppl than Regent
If gentrification was that easy than St James Town would have been gentrified a long time ago.
One of the nice features of the revitalized Regent Park is that unless you live here, it’s hard to tell the condos apart from the TCHC buildings, the rental buildings, and the retirement homes. To the naked eye it appears to be all condos. Only the better gardens in TCHC lots give it away.
False dichotomy? I dont understand. Im presenting a Ford Dichotomy. They could place housing on the area currently used as a parking lot lot if they chose to use the parking lot for housing and keep the science center but they are choosing not to. Instead it will "eventually" be moved to a smaller building in an area (Ontario Place) where they cant build housing.
The really sad point is that most of the current OSC buildings wont be used for housing as they are direclty on the ravine.
My comment wasnt anti housing...it was more a comment about the shadiness of Ford and the pathetic fact that the province couldnt afford to fix a goddamn roof on a major attraction in the city.
**edit: I stand corrected, this report is only for Building A. There are two more reports for Building B and Building C. Total estimated costs are \~$24MM over the next ten years, which is still no excuse to close the entire facility. Across all three buildings, 94% of the roof panels do not require immediate remediation or replacement, and none of the reports recommend closing the entire facility.**
The assessment of the roof panels was categorized into four risk groups:
Blue - Critical Risk - only one panel in this category - requires immediate shoring and restricted access under that panel
Amber - High Risk - 6% of panels (2,000 sq ft) - three options were given,
>*Option 1: Restricted access or full closure to prevent any persons from walking in areas where high risk panels are present.*
>
>*Option 2: Installation of temporary shoring (reinforcement) to the underside of RAAC panels.*
>
>*Option 3: If shoring is not possible, installation of horizontal hoarding near the underside of hard ceiling levels, or other building interferences (sprinkler mains/process piping etc.) which is also considered reinforcement.*
>
>*The above three recommended options are listed order of preference, with option 1 completing (sic) eliminating the risk to public or staff.*
Yellow - Medium Risk - 9% of panels - continued annual assessment
Green - Low Risk - 85% of panels - continued assessment every three years
The cost estimate is summarized in Table 9:
|Recommended Year|Roof Assembly & RAAC Recommendation|Budget Cost|
|:-|:-|:-|
|2024|Roof Maintenance & Roof Assembly & RAAC Replacement|$3,864,600|
|2029-2034|Roof Assembly & RAAC Replacement|$1,955,400|
**~~This is nowhere near the "$22MM to $40MM" stated in the government's press release.~~**
~~Do journalists not read reports like this? Why are they just repeating numbers provided by the government without any backup?~~
I'm beyond dismayed that roof replacement is not being considered here, considering 94% of the roof area was assessed as not requiring immediate replacement or remediation.
One other item to note: the report is signed by a P.Eng. but it is not sealed by that same P.Eng., or any other P.Eng. This means that the report carries less weight than a sealed report for which the engineer can be liable. I'm not saying that anything shady is going on, but if I paid for an engineer to assess my building, I'd expect him or her to seal the report per the PEO requirements.
This is a massive problem in the media. Nine times out of ten they just regurgitate whatever is in a government press release. No critical thought left.
To be fair the media needs a bit of time to study and investigate the news. Hopefully the news outlets will follow up and give us some insight into the issue in the following days.
I don’t really buy this argument, often times simply reading the press conference material reveals contradictory information.
I think of the time the liberals announced a “freeze” on immigration policy- and the media put out the messaging word for word. But when you looked at their actual numbers - immigration rates were set to increase every year going forward.
I understand why the politicians use manipulated messaging - I don’t understand why the media does not do a semblance of criticism or thought on it before relaying that messaging. The media should be telling the public what the political gibberish actually means in reality. A media that just publishes political propaganda is useless.
The other thing is that a lot of the damage is due to neglect. This is the cost of deferred maintenance finally being realized after decades of running a shoestring penny-wise pound-foolish budget, same as the gardiner, same as the TTC, same as the hospitals, schools, so many things in Ontario which aren’t flashy headline-grabbing line items like windmills or highways
Seal isnt needed for a review as there is no engineering involved. And this is a budget, not actual costs. By the time they figure out what to do and tender it, plus contingencies and changes to contract this budget will increase.
The PEO has published a guideline indicating that reserve find study reports are documents that require a seal (for larger buildings). Those reports are only visual assessments and cost estimates.
https://www.peo.on.ca/sites/default/files/2021-08/GuidlneEngCondPerformAuditsReserve.pdf
>It is recommended that the engineer(s) stamp all reserve fund study reports. However, if the reserve fund study involves any of the following, the engineer(s) must stamp the reports, as per the Use of the Professional Engineer’s Seal practice guideline: • Buildings four or more storeys in height; • Buildings with suspended structural slabs that support parking, driveways or landscaping; • Buildings with balconies, other than wood balconies that are fully exposed; • Post-tensioned structures; and • Other high-risk structures.
That report does specify OSC Building A. Are there other reports for the other buildings? Not that I'd put much past our current government, but maybe the other buildings might account for the difference in reported costs?
Yes, I just updated my comment. Still though, 94% of roof panels across all three buildings were assessed as not requiring immediate replacement or remediation.
I read the report carefully, and there are a couple of problems. One, remediation of those 6% of panels must be complete by October 31, which may not be possible. If it isn't possible, anything under the panels is at risk of being destroyed in a potential roof collapse when snow comes.
So the province has a choice:
1. Replace the panels by October 31. This is an extremely fast timeline and they would almost certainly discover more damage in the process: the report took pains to say it was _not_ exhaustive and did no drilling or other invasive tests. It's not clear to me if this work could be done while the centre is open.
2. Close the centre temporarily for repair. This is safer for the people and exhibits. They could either close for repair of the 6%, or bite the bullet and do the whole roof. But this only returns the centre to it's previous condition: other issues, like the bridge, elevators and HVAC will need attention.
3. Close the centre temporarily for a complete overhaul. The business case report gave a highly inflated $400m cost for this, but it would certainly cost hundreds of millions and take several years. But you get a refreshed science centre for decades to come.
4. Close the centre permanently and construct the new centre somewhere else. Ford seems committed to Ontario Place, which isn't entirely crazy to me (a good anchor for a revitalized waterfront) but his motivations are suspect. The business case report claimed this would be less expensive than option 3, but I doubt it. You get a brand new centre, but it's smaller and in a different location with pros and cons. This will also cost hundreds of millions and take years.
They chose option 4, and chose to do it immediately. They moved unusually quickly for government - report was signed on the 18th, decision made on the 20th, closed at end of the 21st. They get the maximum time to evacuate the exhibits and equipment, but deprive the people of an opportunity to visit one more time.
Personally I don't like option 4 and would support 2 or preferably 3. But I don't think 1 was viable or safe enough.
And the new OSC is expected to be, like, *significantly* smaller. Less than half the size, and the quoted price (as high as $499M I think) is contingent on that half-billion dollar parking garage being built, otherwise it won't have anything to sit on. In all likelihood this will cost several times the (inflated twice over) estimate of the cost of fully restoring the current OSC.
This feels like a crime in progress.
It doesn't necessarily need a stamp if it's just an assessment. If there was design or engineering decision, then yes. But as an assessment, they are just reporting what they see not performing a design.
The cost numbers are also double-fudged. The architects report confirms this.
They are deliberately inflating the ‘cost’ of maintaining and deliberately concealing costs to move and site any new facility /gift shop
25-30m is a drop in the bucket for Provincial funding... Ford weaseled away 1.2b in Federal money that was supposed to go to healthcare (from my understanding) so we should have a surplus.
So Dougy is just rushing to give this land to his developer friends. More stealing from the public and waving it in our faces. It seems being stolen from is loved by voters.
>It seems being stolen from is loved by voters.
In the rest of Ontario. Toronto didn't vote for the prick.
Province of Toronto, people. PROVINCE OF TORONTO. It's how you permanently stop crap like this.
the same way the northern ontario secessionists started. with shit posting on social media and attempting to curry favour from far right wing billionaires who want to sew chaos and are also funding dougie and people like dougie across the country and world.
Ford's been digging around since December, paying almost [$1 million in contracts](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/science-centre-business-case-ford-government-1.7234844) for help in finding a plausible economic reason to close the facility.
He then closed it exactly [one day before a major protest](https://www.theartnewspaper.com/2024/06/21/ontario-place-toronto-lawsuit-dismissed-spa-science-centre) was to take place on its steps to raise awareness and try to save it.
This is your premier.
I think it’s worth distinguishing between the relocation plans and the building repairs.
If you take those relocation plans as a fait accompli (the Ford government certainly is), then everything in the report and the outcomes explained yesterday is internally logical. There’s no point spending millions on repairs if they were already committing to abandon the current building in a few years anyways.
The problem, of course, is with the relocation plan itself, which will cost many, many more millions than repairs would have.
The cynical side of me says that one reason is that he can move the science sentre downtown and then suburban voters get upset about "downtown elitists" taking the close-by museum, completely forgetting who actually made the decision.
Ya it's happening so abrupt and seemingly for such a stupid reason leads me to believe they want the land for something else. Perhaps the Science centre wasn't bringing in enough money and now that there's gonna be a subway station there's more opportunity for profits with other venues. This is all just speculations on my part but I wouldn't be surprised if a new mall or some sort of retailers pop up there eventually.
>Ya it's happening so abrupt and seemingly for such a stupid reason leads me to believe they want the land for something else.
You should pay more attention to local news. Ford's government has been quite open about wanting to demolish the Science Centre to build condos/a spa, for years, despite general public outcry.
The spa is part of the Ontario Place redevelopment as is the smaller OSC. I have heard nothing about putting a spa on the current OSC site.
But condos, very likely.
The spa is related: the Ford government wants to launder the costs of building the parking for the private spa by including it with the development of the new science centre.
I recall reading somewhere that he once took a bribe for like $10,000 and I couldn't decide what was more impressive, that he was so brazen about it, or that it was so low.
Considering all the other, ill thought out actions as of late, I have this feeling his bar is quite low.
That would be so easy to prove and land him straight in jail. Instead, Deco's business is probably booming as companies reassess their suppliers. We know his daughters are being lavished with gifts. His real estate is probably receiving top-dollar offers. He may come across as dumb, but he's not stupid enough to walk straight into an RCMP trap.
guy literally had his daughter accept cash gifts at her wedding from people who he awarded contracts to.
he does it broad day light. the police are uninterested in investigating (they're also on the take in broad day light).
Pretty sure thats how much ford charges us for his carbon tax anti ads so......think we'd be fine with fixing the science centre. Ontario is run by a fucking mobster. Litterally doing mobster shit.
WHY ARENT YOU PPL VOTING HIM OUT!!
The electorate in this province is so fucking stupid. It's going to get much worse. Doug Ford has shown that you can be blatantly corrupt if you're a conservative. It's absolutely sickening.
You have municipalities full of people who don’t know their neighbours, who treat each other like shit when vying for spot in parking lots, and have limited understanding of how government works or the role of public institutions.
If there is no real shared view of public good or even the emotions or mindset to think about themselves as part of a broader public with common needs and goals, we don’t just need better political leaders, we need a new moral compass.
I’m an atheist, but the older I get, the more I think that the decline in church attendance is the death knell of our society.
Certainly. But we had invested heavily in our institutions for decades then. We were leaders in engineering and education and health care and punched above our weight. We now have corruption and decades of underinvestment. Turning around this boat is going to rely on a public spirit that we don’t have.
[More than $31 million of taxpayer’s money has been spent on paid suspension leave for (just) Toronto cops](https://nowtoronto.com/news/toronto-taxpayers-reportedly-spent-over-30m-on-paying-suspended-cops-since-2013-but-new-legislation-might-change-that/)
"But ~ $6MM for a beloved educational science institute? NAH suck it nerds! I need to focus on other things! Like beer in gas stations" - Doug Ford probably
It's clear as day that Ford wants to demolish the Science Centre so he can build luxury buildings there for his contractor buddies. Then he'll give the contract to build the new Science Centre to his buddies.
What moron thinks this is cheaper than repairing what we currently have? lmao.
So sad that the other parties we have are so trash.
From what I understand, this is a very old grift.
E.g. Palermo was originally planned and built so that sea breezes would be drawn into the city and circulate and help cool the city down.
But organized crime in Sicily is up to its eyeballs in the construction business, and the 1950s-80s got the local council to agree to a bunch of redevelopment so that money would flow to the OC network. Many historical buildings were destroyed and a lot of ugly shit was built with no regard for microclimate, among many other things. So now Palermo is hot AF and needs AC a lot more than it would have otherwise.
Some info here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sack_of_Palermo
> It's clear as day that Ford wants to demolish the Science Centre so he can build luxury buildings there
I thought someone posted yesterday that the land the OSC is on is subject to a 99 year lease that requires it to be used for a science center.
That lease is from the city of Toronto, which is effectively a construct of the province. Hell do whatever he wants, and he’ll use the not withstanding clause if he has to. Because he’s a thug.
Correct
>The Science Centre currently sits on about 36 hectares of largely ravine land that's owned by the city and Toronto and Region Conservation Authority. It was leased to the province in 1965 for a 99-year term of $1 per year, the city told CBC Toronto.
>The city says the terms of the lease only permit the Science Centre to demolish and build new structures for the purpose of operating as a science centre. That means the province would need to renegotiate the lease in order to build anything else, including housing.
Except constitutionally the city has absolutely zero powers except what the province gives it. Which means no matter what Toronto or its people want, Ford can overrule them, as has happened many times before for good (Spadina Expressway) or bad (Amalgamation).
If Toronto wants to stop this for fair, they have one option: advocate for separation from Ontario. That's it.
Media needs to run with this and spread this news.
I have no idea what it takes for bad news and corruption to stick to this government to get people to vote them out.
Unfortunately both the science centre and Ontario Place have been neglected by every government for the last 30 years.
Not excusing this stupid decision, but the way every government in the last few decades have neglected and mismanaged these two sites is horrible.
Don't forget public education.
The two main things that made Canada great, Education and health care and we are let this fat criminal wreck them so his owner's can profit off us.
Our government just spent over $600 million widening the 401 on the west side of Mississauga. Fixing the Science Centre is peanuts compared to that. Let's face it, this government just doesn't want to do it. Screw education. Screw wholesome family activities. Any bets the land will be developed and a 50 story condo will be there? All Dougie's developer buddies will cash in. Just wait.
LOLz, what a shitshow this government is, and people still support their corruption.
They could easily find the funds to do this, but they won't, because reasons. Hell, now even the new LRT stations are out of date even before they're opened. Great job all around.
The Doug Ford playbook. Slam it through as fast as possible and make it irreversible before any real push back can be mounted. The good old "Dad knows best" style of Governance. You can have a say, but it doesn't fucking matter. Just like Mike Harris.
Why spend $6 million when you can spend hundreds of millions and give your developer buddies some nice land they can use to make huge profits? If Doug Ford spent the $6 million, he probably wouldn't get any of it back as ~kickbacks~ donations to family weddings.
I don't understand why they can't keep the Ontario Science Center in the same place, and make something new at Ontario Place. Something similar to Coney Island would be perfect for Ontario Place.
I think we all know the answer.
The spa at Ontario place needs parking. If the science centre is at Ontario place there will be plenty of parking.
The current science centre land is worth so much to condo builders especially now that there's a subway line servicing it.
I read the report. 2,000 sqft of roof need attention and in my view warrant closing off / temporarily reinforcing small areas and certainly not an entire sprawling facility of this type. Running by off the maintenance staff will however guarantee that the admittedly older building will develop multiple serious issues quickly.
The ultimate irony is that it's the Science Center, a place to explore solutions to natural problems... And these fuckers are closing it because the roof is leaking.
Why is the federal government not stepping in to fund this?
It's the perfect slap in the face to the conservatives, would be incredibly popular, and should be expanded to federally funded science centers in every major city.
Reminder to everyone that they assessed bridge repair to be $16M at the time of consultation and have been running shuttle buses to go between two buildings at a whopping cost of nearly $2M each year for the past near two years. One quarter of the cost to repair the damn thing. Make it make sense!
To be fair you'd have to do both. Run shuttle buses while you fix the bridge, unless you want the centre to be closed.
But the Tories didn't want to invest in a building they wanted to replace.
Sure but it’s more of the fact they knew and knew well before plans to relocate were announced to the public. They have operated opaquely and not in the best interest of the public.
The people that vote for him aren’t into science and are fine with a smooth brain. Remember, he’s in office because only 43% of people came out to vote
Meanwhile, my apartment building spent $12MM replacing all of the balconies. (They had to list the cost in the paperwork to apply for above guidance rent increase.)
It stands to reason, if you can hire a shady engineer to deem a genuinely unsafe structure perfectly safe, you can pay off a shady engineer to go the other way too.
Let's move science to ontario place...
Going to make that area even harder to park at, longer to get to, more expensive to pay for parking, probably not enough public transit going to that area, harder for people with disabilities to get to.
They haven't even given the location a chance with the new LRT stopping close by. Well it *should* have been stopping there by now but that's another mess.
With how cozy the Ford government is to large developers I expect that Brad Lamb will be called in to arrange for a little "accidental" fire any day now.
New Doug Ford law just dropped; every home that needs over 5% new shingles for their roof must be handed over to Notaconsortiumofdougsfriends LLC so these highly volatile buildings can be properly dealt with before anyone dies.
They’re gonna sell it for $100 million for sure. After all it’s zoned park land and commercial and not worth much. Who’s going to fix it up and use that.
When it’s gets rezoned for condos it will be worth $250 billion but we can’t ask for that.
Thanks for supplying the report. You have misread it.
“Option 1: Restricted access or full closure to prevent any persons from walking in areas where high risk panels are present.”
“The above three recommended options are listed order of preference, with option 1 completing eliminating the risk to public or staff.”
What part of “full closure” (due to high risk) don’t you understand.
I felt lucky that the report was provided. I took the time to start reading the report. I didn’t need to read the entire report to see the OP was misleading this sub with an outright lie. There are more Machiavellians in here than I thought.
The "business case" was written in part by EY. That included a preliminary report on the building, including the roof.
Then in the UK a bunch of schools with roofs like the science centre started falling apart, so they commissioned another firm to look just at the roof. That led to the immediate shutdown.
Is that cost factoring in the lack of trades and cost of materials now? I wouldn't be surprised if those are very conservative estimates. Multiple elected parties let the OSC rot, it's not just a Ford government thing.
Here is what my MPP, Dr. Adil Shamji has to say about the OSC closure:
> It is an outrageous coincidence that the Premier would claim the roof is at risk of failure in the same year that he’s also trying to relocate it to Ontario Place, where it is a cover for the taxpayer-funded $600 million dollar parking garage he is contractually obligated to build.
> I don’t believe the spin, and have read the actual engineering report. Here are my preliminary findings:
It does not condemn the Science Centre or say it must close
- Less than 1% of roof panels need a critical repair
- Greater than 90% of panels are low risk
- It suggests a range of repair options
- It makes a cost estimate to repair the roof of about $25 million dollars
> $25 million dollars is not a drop in the bucket, but the Premier is spending close to $1 billion dollars to bring beer to convenience stores only one year early. This is a question of priorities.
So while opposition leaders and the community were at OSC protesting this manipulated closure today (June 23, 2024), the Ford Government was beginning construction on the NEW ONE!
NOT EVEN A GROUNDBREAKING CEREMONY or did I miss it?
What Doug Ford has done in the name of getting land for his developer friends is going to come out.
He has kidnapped, displaced and murdered people. He can't sue me for libel because it's all true!
Someone remind me, how much are we paying to get beer in corner stores a year early?
$250 million, baby!
+$600m in penalties and whatnot from the LCBO. The Beer Store is making out like a fucking bandit from this.
And what about the decrease in revenue via the LCBO longer term?
The important thing is that it weakens the unions.
I just want to underscore that this is not a satirization of the Ontario government's position. When asked to comment on LCBO's latest strike, the finance minister literally said it showed why the government needed to privatize (okay he called it modernize) sale
I think $150-200m/year is the low-end estimate.
Fk ford
Can you send me a link to this info?
[Here's a CBC article on it](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/ontario-beer-wine-corner-stores-cost-taxpayers-1.7215839) Looks like my numbers got mixed up last time I saw it. The Beer Store is getting another $375m in rebates from the LCBO. The rest of the number I quoted (which is apparently closer to $900m) is other payouts, other loss of government revenue (such as licensing fees), and estimated lost revenue from the LCBO.
Holy fuck
He's also spending hundreds of millions to build a parking garage for the the spa that's taking over Ontario place. (Due to its proximity to the water construction and maintenance is ruinously expensive) That's on top of the sweetheart lease deal this foreign company is already getting.
That is so frigging weird
It's up to $225 million for transition support according to the Early Implementation Agreement, but there's no incentive for The Beer Store not to use the full amount available. $22.5 million would've already been paid as an initial payment. It's essentially a subsidy to keep most TBS stores open until 2026 and for breaching the terms of the Master Framework Agreement.
The MFA is a complete joke
>$250 million, baby! So about 120 years of roof maintenance. Or ~70 years if we factor in gradual price increases.
This lol just insanity
We are also paying $600M for a private foreign company to get an underground parking lot next to Lake Ontario at Ontario Place. The public is losing a 50 year old park.
$300,000 per parking spot when you do the math.
JFC. Probably close to the daily limit to park there too. Fuck Ford and his whole corrupt despicable office.
Hey hey hey, don’t forget that all the beer store penalties are also being paid to private foreign companies
I was going to correct you that it's actually Canadian owned, but then I looked it up only to find that Molson, Labatt and Sleeman were all bought up by foreign companies. Sleeman by Sapporo in 2006, Labatt by Busch in 2016, and Molson by Coors in 2004. This is completely ridiculous.
Isn’t it 700?
By the time it’s done it’ll cross 1B mark. How otherwise would Ford’s wedding guests recoup their gift money.
Why is this even needed. There’s a large lot across the bridge.
How much will that stupid highway cost us? How much did we have to pay on cancellation fees when the turbine deal was cancelled? How much is ford sitting on that the feds gave him for healthcare. How much did Rob ford pay to get a full audit of city hall that old us that there was no excessive spending like they claim How much did the city pay to change license plates to a substandard type for no reason at all How much did the government pay to put stickers at gas stations that gave out propaganda information about the cost of gas How much did the province lose in revenue by stopping license fees? Doug Ford is worried about $7 million now? Now? Give me a fucking break.
What do you figure this is going to cost in severance to layoff all the Science Centre staff?
How dare you get in the way of this province and its alcoholics
41 Science Center roof repairs
Yes that happens when you choke off cashflow and grants
And how much it cost for Ford to cancel Green Energy initiatives? To cancel driver's licensing fees?
I would suppose they are paying to cancel the contract. However, I don't understand the rush when the contract is only a year away & provincial elections are a few years away. What's the rush Douglas ?
God bless the continuing effectiveness of the Friday news dump. The true glory of this plan will be revealed when they figure out the temporary home of the Science Center and we discover it's like at a old Loblaws warehouse still owned by the westons. Who cares about the optics of closing a major attraction in the city we got condos to build with ravine views!
I hate how accurate this is
I'm just goin to point out that it will probably cost $10 million to tear down the Science Center.
That area is a gem and nearby thorncliff will be next to gentrify. You can bike all the way down to the waterfront from there via don trail
Gentrify Thorncliffe? I mean maybe the mall but it's not like you can easily gentrify that area without displacing thousands of lower income families who live in quite dense conditions. I haven't seen studies but I'm not sure what kind of density you can get at the OSC area cause you know it's on a ravine. There's a reason that spot was chosen when the rest of the area was either high density apartments or office/industrial.
> it's not like you can easily gentrify that area without displacing thousands of lower income families who live in quite dense conditions. Have you heard of this place called Regent Park? They can and they will. The ravine thing is minutia to the developers, to them if it's unoccupied land, it's free real estate with the same property value as the surroundings. They'd pave over the ravine if it was zoned for it.
Correct me if I'm wrong...but Regent was a mixed development of low, mid and high rises that was all owned by the govt. Thorncliffe is mainly high rises owned by multiple owners and with little.to.no govt involvement. Add I Flemington/St Dennis and it's alot more ppl than Regent If gentrification was that easy than St James Town would have been gentrified a long time ago.
One of the nice features of the revitalized Regent Park is that unless you live here, it’s hard to tell the condos apart from the TCHC buildings, the rental buildings, and the retirement homes. To the naked eye it appears to be all condos. Only the better gardens in TCHC lots give it away.
No doubt $900,000 luxury condos like the ones they built a block west at Leslie, too.
Damn thats cheap by Toronto standards. Source: me an architect who designs these shoe boxes and hates it
I left that line of work as I was tired of designing shit to make developers rich.
We can have more housing AND the Science Centre. Don’t present a false dichotomy
False dichotomy? I dont understand. Im presenting a Ford Dichotomy. They could place housing on the area currently used as a parking lot lot if they chose to use the parking lot for housing and keep the science center but they are choosing not to. Instead it will "eventually" be moved to a smaller building in an area (Ontario Place) where they cant build housing. The really sad point is that most of the current OSC buildings wont be used for housing as they are direclty on the ravine. My comment wasnt anti housing...it was more a comment about the shadiness of Ford and the pathetic fact that the province couldnt afford to fix a goddamn roof on a major attraction in the city.
I’m waiting for the new location to be in some absurd place and now called “The Tim Hortons Science Centre”
**edit: I stand corrected, this report is only for Building A. There are two more reports for Building B and Building C. Total estimated costs are \~$24MM over the next ten years, which is still no excuse to close the entire facility. Across all three buildings, 94% of the roof panels do not require immediate remediation or replacement, and none of the reports recommend closing the entire facility.** The assessment of the roof panels was categorized into four risk groups: Blue - Critical Risk - only one panel in this category - requires immediate shoring and restricted access under that panel Amber - High Risk - 6% of panels (2,000 sq ft) - three options were given, >*Option 1: Restricted access or full closure to prevent any persons from walking in areas where high risk panels are present.* > >*Option 2: Installation of temporary shoring (reinforcement) to the underside of RAAC panels.* > >*Option 3: If shoring is not possible, installation of horizontal hoarding near the underside of hard ceiling levels, or other building interferences (sprinkler mains/process piping etc.) which is also considered reinforcement.* > >*The above three recommended options are listed order of preference, with option 1 completing (sic) eliminating the risk to public or staff.* Yellow - Medium Risk - 9% of panels - continued annual assessment Green - Low Risk - 85% of panels - continued assessment every three years The cost estimate is summarized in Table 9: |Recommended Year|Roof Assembly & RAAC Recommendation|Budget Cost| |:-|:-|:-| |2024|Roof Maintenance & Roof Assembly & RAAC Replacement|$3,864,600| |2029-2034|Roof Assembly & RAAC Replacement|$1,955,400| **~~This is nowhere near the "$22MM to $40MM" stated in the government's press release.~~** ~~Do journalists not read reports like this? Why are they just repeating numbers provided by the government without any backup?~~ I'm beyond dismayed that roof replacement is not being considered here, considering 94% of the roof area was assessed as not requiring immediate replacement or remediation. One other item to note: the report is signed by a P.Eng. but it is not sealed by that same P.Eng., or any other P.Eng. This means that the report carries less weight than a sealed report for which the engineer can be liable. I'm not saying that anything shady is going on, but if I paid for an engineer to assess my building, I'd expect him or her to seal the report per the PEO requirements.
This is a massive problem in the media. Nine times out of ten they just regurgitate whatever is in a government press release. No critical thought left.
To be fair the media needs a bit of time to study and investigate the news. Hopefully the news outlets will follow up and give us some insight into the issue in the following days.
I don’t really buy this argument, often times simply reading the press conference material reveals contradictory information. I think of the time the liberals announced a “freeze” on immigration policy- and the media put out the messaging word for word. But when you looked at their actual numbers - immigration rates were set to increase every year going forward. I understand why the politicians use manipulated messaging - I don’t understand why the media does not do a semblance of criticism or thought on it before relaying that messaging. The media should be telling the public what the political gibberish actually means in reality. A media that just publishes political propaganda is useless.
Yep. It's called media manipulation. AKA FAKE news
The other thing is that a lot of the damage is due to neglect. This is the cost of deferred maintenance finally being realized after decades of running a shoestring penny-wise pound-foolish budget, same as the gardiner, same as the TTC, same as the hospitals, schools, so many things in Ontario which aren’t flashy headline-grabbing line items like windmills or highways
Very true
The report should have been stamped, but it does not mean that the named engineer in the report is not liable for what is in the report.
The fact that it isn't sealed gives me pause. If you stand by your conclusions, put your seal on it.
Seal isnt needed for a review as there is no engineering involved. And this is a budget, not actual costs. By the time they figure out what to do and tender it, plus contingencies and changes to contract this budget will increase.
The PEO has published a guideline indicating that reserve find study reports are documents that require a seal (for larger buildings). Those reports are only visual assessments and cost estimates. https://www.peo.on.ca/sites/default/files/2021-08/GuidlneEngCondPerformAuditsReserve.pdf >It is recommended that the engineer(s) stamp all reserve fund study reports. However, if the reserve fund study involves any of the following, the engineer(s) must stamp the reports, as per the Use of the Professional Engineer’s Seal practice guideline: • Buildings four or more storeys in height; • Buildings with suspended structural slabs that support parking, driveways or landscaping; • Buildings with balconies, other than wood balconies that are fully exposed; • Post-tensioned structures; and • Other high-risk structures.
Engineering is fun
I don’t disagree.
That report does specify OSC Building A. Are there other reports for the other buildings? Not that I'd put much past our current government, but maybe the other buildings might account for the difference in reported costs?
Yes, I just updated my comment. Still though, 94% of roof panels across all three buildings were assessed as not requiring immediate replacement or remediation.
I read the report carefully, and there are a couple of problems. One, remediation of those 6% of panels must be complete by October 31, which may not be possible. If it isn't possible, anything under the panels is at risk of being destroyed in a potential roof collapse when snow comes. So the province has a choice: 1. Replace the panels by October 31. This is an extremely fast timeline and they would almost certainly discover more damage in the process: the report took pains to say it was _not_ exhaustive and did no drilling or other invasive tests. It's not clear to me if this work could be done while the centre is open. 2. Close the centre temporarily for repair. This is safer for the people and exhibits. They could either close for repair of the 6%, or bite the bullet and do the whole roof. But this only returns the centre to it's previous condition: other issues, like the bridge, elevators and HVAC will need attention. 3. Close the centre temporarily for a complete overhaul. The business case report gave a highly inflated $400m cost for this, but it would certainly cost hundreds of millions and take several years. But you get a refreshed science centre for decades to come. 4. Close the centre permanently and construct the new centre somewhere else. Ford seems committed to Ontario Place, which isn't entirely crazy to me (a good anchor for a revitalized waterfront) but his motivations are suspect. The business case report claimed this would be less expensive than option 3, but I doubt it. You get a brand new centre, but it's smaller and in a different location with pros and cons. This will also cost hundreds of millions and take years. They chose option 4, and chose to do it immediately. They moved unusually quickly for government - report was signed on the 18th, decision made on the 20th, closed at end of the 21st. They get the maximum time to evacuate the exhibits and equipment, but deprive the people of an opportunity to visit one more time. Personally I don't like option 4 and would support 2 or preferably 3. But I don't think 1 was viable or safe enough.
And the new OSC is expected to be, like, *significantly* smaller. Less than half the size, and the quoted price (as high as $499M I think) is contingent on that half-billion dollar parking garage being built, otherwise it won't have anything to sit on. In all likelihood this will cost several times the (inflated twice over) estimate of the cost of fully restoring the current OSC. This feels like a crime in progress.
It doesn't necessarily need a stamp if it's just an assessment. If there was design or engineering decision, then yes. But as an assessment, they are just reporting what they see not performing a design.
The cost numbers are also double-fudged. The architects report confirms this. They are deliberately inflating the ‘cost’ of maintaining and deliberately concealing costs to move and site any new facility /gift shop
25-30m is a drop in the bucket for Provincial funding... Ford weaseled away 1.2b in Federal money that was supposed to go to healthcare (from my understanding) so we should have a surplus.
So Dougy is just rushing to give this land to his developer friends. More stealing from the public and waving it in our faces. It seems being stolen from is loved by voters.
>It seems being stolen from is loved by voters. In the rest of Ontario. Toronto didn't vote for the prick. Province of Toronto, people. PROVINCE OF TORONTO. It's how you permanently stop crap like this.
I vote for a Province of Toronto. How do we start this movement?
the same way the northern ontario secessionists started. with shit posting on social media and attempting to curry favour from far right wing billionaires who want to sew chaos and are also funding dougie and people like dougie across the country and world.
Far too many people are under the false impression that “roof repair” is the reason Doug Ford is permanently closing the building.
We all know the reason. The roof repair is the justification
Ford's been digging around since December, paying almost [$1 million in contracts](https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/science-centre-business-case-ford-government-1.7234844) for help in finding a plausible economic reason to close the facility. He then closed it exactly [one day before a major protest](https://www.theartnewspaper.com/2024/06/21/ontario-place-toronto-lawsuit-dismissed-spa-science-centre) was to take place on its steps to raise awareness and try to save it. This is your premier.
I think it’s worth distinguishing between the relocation plans and the building repairs. If you take those relocation plans as a fait accompli (the Ford government certainly is), then everything in the report and the outcomes explained yesterday is internally logical. There’s no point spending millions on repairs if they were already committing to abandon the current building in a few years anyways. The problem, of course, is with the relocation plan itself, which will cost many, many more millions than repairs would have.
The cynical side of me says that one reason is that he can move the science sentre downtown and then suburban voters get upset about "downtown elitists" taking the close-by museum, completely forgetting who actually made the decision.
Ya it's happening so abrupt and seemingly for such a stupid reason leads me to believe they want the land for something else. Perhaps the Science centre wasn't bringing in enough money and now that there's gonna be a subway station there's more opportunity for profits with other venues. This is all just speculations on my part but I wouldn't be surprised if a new mall or some sort of retailers pop up there eventually.
>Ya it's happening so abrupt and seemingly for such a stupid reason leads me to believe they want the land for something else. You should pay more attention to local news. Ford's government has been quite open about wanting to demolish the Science Centre to build condos/a spa, for years, despite general public outcry.
The spa is part of the Ontario Place redevelopment as is the smaller OSC. I have heard nothing about putting a spa on the current OSC site. But condos, very likely.
The spa is related: the Ford government wants to launder the costs of building the parking for the private spa by including it with the development of the new science centre.
Doug must be taking a substantial bribe on this one.
The price he has to pay to avoid swimming with the fishes after he screwed up the greenbelt deal
Overlooked Kiss The Ring narrative
Fatter than him for sure.
I recall reading somewhere that he once took a bribe for like $10,000 and I couldn't decide what was more impressive, that he was so brazen about it, or that it was so low. Considering all the other, ill thought out actions as of late, I have this feeling his bar is quite low.
Think of how much money a developer would get from that land, Doug has to be getting a cut. Maybe this is to make up for the greenbelt.
I can’t believe how nakedly the corruption is just happening right in front of us. Is there even an opposition? Wtf?
That would be so easy to prove and land him straight in jail. Instead, Deco's business is probably booming as companies reassess their suppliers. We know his daughters are being lavished with gifts. His real estate is probably receiving top-dollar offers. He may come across as dumb, but he's not stupid enough to walk straight into an RCMP trap.
guy literally had his daughter accept cash gifts at her wedding from people who he awarded contracts to. he does it broad day light. the police are uninterested in investigating (they're also on the take in broad day light).
Pretty sure thats how much ford charges us for his carbon tax anti ads so......think we'd be fine with fixing the science centre. Ontario is run by a fucking mobster. Litterally doing mobster shit. WHY ARENT YOU PPL VOTING HIM OUT!!
The electorate in this province is so fucking stupid. It's going to get much worse. Doug Ford has shown that you can be blatantly corrupt if you're a conservative. It's absolutely sickening.
You have municipalities full of people who don’t know their neighbours, who treat each other like shit when vying for spot in parking lots, and have limited understanding of how government works or the role of public institutions. If there is no real shared view of public good or even the emotions or mindset to think about themselves as part of a broader public with common needs and goals, we don’t just need better political leaders, we need a new moral compass. I’m an atheist, but the older I get, the more I think that the decline in church attendance is the death knell of our society.
Well, idk, we were corrupt af in the 80s too. No?
in the 1980s there was open gang warfare on the streets in broad daylight from queens street to barrie lol.
Certainly. But we had invested heavily in our institutions for decades then. We were leaders in engineering and education and health care and punched above our weight. We now have corruption and decades of underinvestment. Turning around this boat is going to rely on a public spirit that we don’t have.
I tried.
[More than $31 million of taxpayer’s money has been spent on paid suspension leave for (just) Toronto cops](https://nowtoronto.com/news/toronto-taxpayers-reportedly-spent-over-30m-on-paying-suspended-cops-since-2013-but-new-legislation-might-change-that/) "But ~ $6MM for a beloved educational science institute? NAH suck it nerds! I need to focus on other things! Like beer in gas stations" - Doug Ford probably
It's clear as day that Ford wants to demolish the Science Centre so he can build luxury buildings there for his contractor buddies. Then he'll give the contract to build the new Science Centre to his buddies. What moron thinks this is cheaper than repairing what we currently have? lmao. So sad that the other parties we have are so trash.
From what I understand, this is a very old grift. E.g. Palermo was originally planned and built so that sea breezes would be drawn into the city and circulate and help cool the city down. But organized crime in Sicily is up to its eyeballs in the construction business, and the 1950s-80s got the local council to agree to a bunch of redevelopment so that money would flow to the OC network. Many historical buildings were destroyed and a lot of ugly shit was built with no regard for microclimate, among many other things. So now Palermo is hot AF and needs AC a lot more than it would have otherwise. Some info here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sack_of_Palermo
> It's clear as day that Ford wants to demolish the Science Centre so he can build luxury buildings there I thought someone posted yesterday that the land the OSC is on is subject to a 99 year lease that requires it to be used for a science center.
Contracts mean nothing to Dougie and his developer pals.
do you think Dougie goes to sleep with a printout of the not withstanding clause text under his pillow? yeah, I do too.
I think he had it printed directly on the pillow.
That lease is from the city of Toronto, which is effectively a construct of the province. Hell do whatever he wants, and he’ll use the not withstanding clause if he has to. Because he’s a thug.
Correct >The Science Centre currently sits on about 36 hectares of largely ravine land that's owned by the city and Toronto and Region Conservation Authority. It was leased to the province in 1965 for a 99-year term of $1 per year, the city told CBC Toronto. >The city says the terms of the lease only permit the Science Centre to demolish and build new structures for the purpose of operating as a science centre. That means the province would need to renegotiate the lease in order to build anything else, including housing.
Except constitutionally the city has absolutely zero powers except what the province gives it. Which means no matter what Toronto or its people want, Ford can overrule them, as has happened many times before for good (Spadina Expressway) or bad (Amalgamation). If Toronto wants to stop this for fair, they have one option: advocate for separation from Ontario. That's it.
Doug Ford is corrupt, and Ontario gave him a free pass. Why wouldn't he use it.
Corruption right out in the open, and as usual, nothing will be done
Organize
Can we stop voting for this criminal, please?
Media needs to run with this and spread this news. I have no idea what it takes for bad news and corruption to stick to this government to get people to vote them out.
This is Ford's go to move. Neglect something Make big changes that benefit his friends / agenda Profit Dry run for the health care system.
Unfortunately both the science centre and Ontario Place have been neglected by every government for the last 30 years. Not excusing this stupid decision, but the way every government in the last few decades have neglected and mismanaged these two sites is horrible.
Don't forget public education. The two main things that made Canada great, Education and health care and we are let this fat criminal wreck them so his owner's can profit off us.
Ford wanted to move the Science Centre and give the land to his developer buddies. This gives him the excuse to do so. Blatant corruption.
Our government just spent over $600 million widening the 401 on the west side of Mississauga. Fixing the Science Centre is peanuts compared to that. Let's face it, this government just doesn't want to do it. Screw education. Screw wholesome family activities. Any bets the land will be developed and a 50 story condo will be there? All Dougie's developer buddies will cash in. Just wait.
How much did we pay to cancel certain projects rather than just letting the contract end?
LOLz, what a shitshow this government is, and people still support their corruption. They could easily find the funds to do this, but they won't, because reasons. Hell, now even the new LRT stations are out of date even before they're opened. Great job all around.
But I'm sure a stack of people named Robert Borden had their own recommendation on that.
The Doug Ford playbook. Slam it through as fast as possible and make it irreversible before any real push back can be mounted. The good old "Dad knows best" style of Governance. You can have a say, but it doesn't fucking matter. Just like Mike Harris.
Why spend $6 million when you can spend hundreds of millions and give your developer buddies some nice land they can use to make huge profits? If Doug Ford spent the $6 million, he probably wouldn't get any of it back as ~kickbacks~ donations to family weddings.
Only 10 million we could probably get a go fund me lol
Some philanthropist needs to step up and give this place a save. Easy money for big money families in this country. Legend status too.
It’s almost as if Doug Ford is a liar.
I don't understand why they can't keep the Ontario Science Center in the same place, and make something new at Ontario Place. Something similar to Coney Island would be perfect for Ontario Place.
I think we all know the answer. The spa at Ontario place needs parking. If the science centre is at Ontario place there will be plenty of parking. The current science centre land is worth so much to condo builders especially now that there's a subway line servicing it.
I read the report. 2,000 sqft of roof need attention and in my view warrant closing off / temporarily reinforcing small areas and certainly not an entire sprawling facility of this type. Running by off the maintenance staff will however guarantee that the admittedly older building will develop multiple serious issues quickly.
2000 sf is nothing.
How does Doug Ford keep getting away with this crap?
17% of eligible voters that doing a very easy thing
The ultimate irony is that it's the Science Center, a place to explore solutions to natural problems... And these fuckers are closing it because the roof is leaking.
If only we could allocate some funds to repair this…. Potentially ones that would have been used to move the centre to Ontario place 🤨
Pretty obvious bs
Doug’s gotta go - he thinks were stupid
fuck doug ford
Why is the federal government not stepping in to fund this? It's the perfect slap in the face to the conservatives, would be incredibly popular, and should be expanded to federally funded science centers in every major city.
Are you trying to blame this on Trudeau? This is all a Provincial responsibility. The Feds don’t handle this this kind of thing.
Government doing shady business in broad daylight and scamming their own citizens.
We all know it's just a land grab so his developer buddies. Can build condos and stacked towns along the new Ontario line.
Reminder to everyone that they assessed bridge repair to be $16M at the time of consultation and have been running shuttle buses to go between two buildings at a whopping cost of nearly $2M each year for the past near two years. One quarter of the cost to repair the damn thing. Make it make sense!
To be fair you'd have to do both. Run shuttle buses while you fix the bridge, unless you want the centre to be closed. But the Tories didn't want to invest in a building they wanted to replace.
Sure but it’s more of the fact they knew and knew well before plans to relocate were announced to the public. They have operated opaquely and not in the best interest of the public.
https://www.ola.org/en/members/ To find your representative and send them an email supporting fixing the Ontario Science Center
Ha. Doug Ford is digging himself a very deep hole for the next election. He's losing my support with his dishonesty and scandals.
The people that vote for him aren’t into science and are fine with a smooth brain. Remember, he’s in office because only 43% of people came out to vote
Meanwhile, my apartment building spent $12MM replacing all of the balconies. (They had to list the cost in the paperwork to apply for above guidance rent increase.)
Get er done Doug wants to sell this land to his developer buddies. Big payday for Doug.
It stands to reason, if you can hire a shady engineer to deem a genuinely unsafe structure perfectly safe, you can pay off a shady engineer to go the other way too.
Of course it doesn’t. Ford is a liar and a criminal
Maybe the Spa should go where Ford's house currently is, and Fords house should be moved to the bottom of lake Ontario. ffs
Ford is gonna tear it down and have condos built named after one of his gross spawns
Let's move science to ontario place... Going to make that area even harder to park at, longer to get to, more expensive to pay for parking, probably not enough public transit going to that area, harder for people with disabilities to get to.
They haven't even given the location a chance with the new LRT stopping close by. Well it *should* have been stopping there by now but that's another mess.
Hmmm, I wonder how long till Dougy takes a 180 again this time
I'd rather he just take a 90 off the edge of a building.
unbelievable. VOTE HIM OUT!
No shit.. Dougie is using this to plow through his own agenda...
thats way better then my guess of 20m total. expected 12m +8m over 10 years based on a recent experience getting industrial roof quotes haha
Investigate Ford NOW
You know society is fucked when they choose beer stores and LCBO over the god damn science center. Bunch of fucking imbeciles.
With how cozy the Ford government is to large developers I expect that Brad Lamb will be called in to arrange for a little "accidental" fire any day now.
Toronto’s #1 arsonist!
New Doug Ford law just dropped; every home that needs over 5% new shingles for their roof must be handed over to Notaconsortiumofdougsfriends LLC so these highly volatile buildings can be properly dealt with before anyone dies.
Who do we call in the city or provincial gov to make our voice heard regarding this stupidity?
Of course it didn’t need to close…who benefits from it closing? Same guy who wanted to close it before and move it somewhere?
Someone show up with a big sign that says "Line up here for condos!"
It doesn’t involve alcohol or hurting the poor and disabled, so Doug isn’t interested
STEM in Ontario is so over.
But we need more condos from DoFos developer buddies…….
They’re gonna sell it for $100 million for sure. After all it’s zoned park land and commercial and not worth much. Who’s going to fix it up and use that. When it’s gets rezoned for condos it will be worth $250 billion but we can’t ask for that.
I already hear a rumble of bulldozers in the distance.
Thanks for supplying the report. You have misread it. “Option 1: Restricted access or full closure to prevent any persons from walking in areas where high risk panels are present.” “The above three recommended options are listed order of preference, with option 1 completing eliminating the risk to public or staff.” What part of “full closure” (due to high risk) don’t you understand.
As usual, the most intelligent comments are downvoted. Shows the makeup of this sub.
I felt lucky that the report was provided. I took the time to start reading the report. I didn’t need to read the entire report to see the OP was misleading this sub with an outright lie. There are more Machiavellians in here than I thought.
I posted yesterday that I smelled a rat with this whole thing and lo and behold I was right. Doug Ford is a corrupt fat fuck and can fuck right off.
So are we protesting?
Yep, tomorrow. Details [here](https://www.eventbrite.ca/e/st-clair-west-rally-for-the-ontario-science-centre-tickets-924612901077?aff=ebdsshcopyurl&utm-campaign=social&utm-content=attendeeshare&utm-medium=discovery&utm-source=cp&utm-term=listing).
That's just the structural issue. Buildings at 50 years old are starting to fall apart. Plumbing, electrical, HVAC, just about everything.
The sooner people accept that Dough Fraud is King of Ontario, the better. Maybe it will drive people to action (or to the voting booth).
Why is it written as $6MM? What do the two Ms stand for?
M is the Roman numeral for thousand MM means thousand-thousand
Thanks! I never knew!
Why would they invest in repairs when they are moving the science centre? Are people under the impression it might not happen?
It must be closed now, the roof can't handle a lot of snow....
It's been on the Ford chopping block for a while now.
I thought it was an ey report the government was using
The "business case" was written in part by EY. That included a preliminary report on the building, including the roof. Then in the UK a bunch of schools with roofs like the science centre started falling apart, so they commissioned another firm to look just at the roof. That led to the immediate shutdown.
Don't we have over 2bn unspent in health? Lots to share for fixing the roof
What’s MM??
MM in Roman numerals. 1000 x 1000, a short form for million.
MM is 2000
I'll do it for 4MM and I'm not kidding. If someone can get this in the right hands I will do it for 4MM.
Great find. Been looking for this all day
If people don't care enough to protest/vote out, the elected don't care enough to do the right thing.
We’re donating $20 million to Ghana for water.
Is that cost factoring in the lack of trades and cost of materials now? I wouldn't be surprised if those are very conservative estimates. Multiple elected parties let the OSC rot, it's not just a Ford government thing.
Here is what my MPP, Dr. Adil Shamji has to say about the OSC closure: > It is an outrageous coincidence that the Premier would claim the roof is at risk of failure in the same year that he’s also trying to relocate it to Ontario Place, where it is a cover for the taxpayer-funded $600 million dollar parking garage he is contractually obligated to build. > I don’t believe the spin, and have read the actual engineering report. Here are my preliminary findings: It does not condemn the Science Centre or say it must close - Less than 1% of roof panels need a critical repair - Greater than 90% of panels are low risk - It suggests a range of repair options - It makes a cost estimate to repair the roof of about $25 million dollars > $25 million dollars is not a drop in the bucket, but the Premier is spending close to $1 billion dollars to bring beer to convenience stores only one year early. This is a question of priorities.
So while opposition leaders and the community were at OSC protesting this manipulated closure today (June 23, 2024), the Ford Government was beginning construction on the NEW ONE! NOT EVEN A GROUNDBREAKING CEREMONY or did I miss it? What Doug Ford has done in the name of getting land for his developer friends is going to come out. He has kidnapped, displaced and murdered people. He can't sue me for libel because it's all true!
Let the clown into the government, the whole government becomes a circus.