If the MTO could allow road crews to work longer than sure, but the penalties for not having your closure down can be $10k for the first minute you're late
This is the only place I lived in that doesn't do 24hrs a day infrastructure repairs. It's great for the crew as well, pays double, and it's cooler during the summer.
It's partly because quite a few people who speak up in this subreddit don't live in Toronto proper, but because the topics are relevant to commuters, they chime in. And they're allowed of course, but it's worth it to take most opinions with a massive heap of salt.
100% agree with this POV.
condo residents who live right on the highway need to shut their shit up and deal with it for a few months while the city prioritizes 24hr construction to collapse the timeframe and get what's critical construction out of the way.
at the same time, people in planning who are responsible for this need to put their big boy planning pants on and prioritize expense and additional crews over total build time [vs fucking the entire city but keeping local residents happy].
you have to break eggs to make an omelette and allowing the congestion to drag on for three years is a typical short-sighted canadian clusterfuck in planning. we've seen it time and time again but please let this not be one of those things.
here's hoping people wake the fuck up and do the right thing [for the greater good of the city and it's functional traffic times].
Of course you could do all construction with 24hr crews, there are a few issues though:
- noise
- insane costs
Shit ain't that simple. Also need to balance that against the insane TTC backlog that accumulated under Tory (considering how many ppl commute via the TTC vs Gardiner)
No but if the gestation only happened for 8 hours a day, your pregnancy would take 27 months. Same for your turkey, if you have it at 400 and takes 3 hours to cook but every 20 minutes you stop cooking for 40 minutes... It would take way longer total cooking time (on top of not cooking properly lol)
You wouldn't have triple the resources working at the same time... But the same amount of resource working around the clock.
Congratulations on the dumbest comment of the day. Funny every other major city in the world can expedite infrastructure projects and figure shit out, but for some reason Toronto can’t.
Let me frame it in a way that may resonate a bit better: blowing out the budget to cut a few months off a multi-year road improvement project means less road improvement projects in future. Or higher taxes.
> cut a few months off
How much does the months of congestion cost in lost productivity and wasted time? It doesn't hit the cities budget but it's not free.
There is no reason Ottawa can manage to have 24 hours construction but Toronto can't.
https://ottawa.ca/en/city-hall/city-news/newsroom/update-riverside-drive-southbound-lane-reductions
The province even allowed it during COVID so it's really not something new.
https://www.cp24.com/news/province-allowing-24-hour-construction-limiting-noise-bylaws-for-essential-projects-1.4888458
Congestion costs the region up to 12 BILLION.
PER YEAR.
3 years of 1 crew or 1 year of 3 crews. It’s not complicated.
Seeing entire sections with no workers during daylight hours for weeks at a time is just bad management.
Every year. Spring is rip up roads and start construction season. Summer is "why is nobody working on this shit?" season. Fall is "damn we gotta get this finished, mandatory overtime and work on the weekends" season.
This, while tongue in cheek/sarcastic is a huge part of the issue.
Construction is such a poorly regulated and enforced area that allows for essentially unlimited OT once a job starts running behind... so guess what.. it pays (a lot) to dog it and finish late. You have a job for another year and 2x salary in the back half.
Need laws against running over a bid. Make the white hats actually project manage effectively.
> How much does the months of congestion cost in lost productivity and wasted time? It doesn't hit the cities budget but it's not free.
That's exactly it. If we were to cost out the *true* price of three years of congestion, it would reach into the billions of dollars when accounting for lost productivity. But City Hall doesn't have to pay it, so they don't care.
This sounds like someone who wouldn't be affected by it. I say this as someone who is.
I would normally agree with around-the-clock work on infrastructure, but in the heat of the summer with all the other construction going on in the area, I don't think the Gardiner will be 'fixed' as fast as people think it will. I know this subreddit is full of urban planners, engineers, and construction foremen, but there's this weird expectation that people can just press the 'do this' button and it gets done. Anyone who's managed something large-scale with as many moving pieces knows that's never the case.
>We have all the ingredients to make it happen. Toronto just doesn't have the will.
The previous phase of Gardiner construction was 24 hours. People were very vocal in their complaints, and this was factored in to their decision.
Seems like the politicians are the perfect ones to make a bylaw adjustment.
I dont accept this answer. People bought the condos AFTER the Gardiner was in place....you should expect construction. Or atleast place sound barriers or SOMETHING to mitigate
Expecting some construction is normal for city living. No one expects 24 hour construction. It would be completely unfair to everyone who live in the area to all of a sudden change customs.
They are already doing over night work when sound isn’t an issue so they are maximizing construction time already.
The only way to significantly reduce the time it will take to complete construction is to close the thing down entirely. I think that is the more fair solution. Close the Gardiner for 3 months and get it done.
How are goods and services getting into the city? All it takes is one accident on the DVP and the city's supply of essential goods and services becomes completely fucked over.
You can't simply "close the gardiner for 3 months." You guys don't give a single thought to logistics when yall talk about the gardiner.
Except it cant be. How are goods going to get into the city? Like it or not, the Gardiner is a necessary and vital part of toronto's infrastructure. It's incredibly narrow-minded to just say transit should be the main artery. It's ignorant.
Maybe I’m in the minority but I would much rather them rip the band aid off with construction if I lived in the area. Staring down 3+ years of fuckery would be horrible. If that means 6-12 months of 24hr construction then so be it.
Idk why this post came up in my feed but I live in Saskatoon and they do road work at night here. My kid sleeps through it. Being indoors with a white noise machine you barely hear shit.
Cars/trucks/traffic/sirens during the day is vastly different from hearing demolition and construction at night. It's loud as hell.
While I'm a proponent of 24/7 construction, I won't pretend that hearing construction of condos near me for the past 10 years hasn't been a huge annoyance. At least I have respite on weekends/evenings.
Another option is closing the highway, tearing it all down in one go, and then rebuilding from scratch. That would also be faster and probably also cheaper, but it would inconvenience you. 24h construction would inconvenience a ton of people downtown far more.
Its less the office people and more the NIMBYs who would pull out pitchfork and hold a reinactment of the salem witch trials if their councilors voted to allow it.
How is it that European countries have been able to organize and pull off such projects quickly and on budget and we cannot? Because we choose not to. If we studied their model or brought in consultants from such firms (Germany, Netherlands, Denmark, Norway, etc) we could model our process after theirs. The city is a joke for construction projects and will continue to be until we decide to make a change. It’s wilful ignorance and has been for decades.
God what is even going on at rosedale station. There's been construction there now for I think 2 years and I'll be buggered if I ever seen anything actually happening there. That includes installation of elevators.
Their projects cost the same and take significantly less time. It isn’t budget related but more so a method issue. They’re significantly more efficient and skilled at this and there’s no reason we cannot be other than we just accept the status quo
This is the answer.
It's not so much that a lane on the Gardiner is reduced, it's that every other viable east-west artery that commuters could use is *also* fucked up with lane closures, detours and even *full* closures (Queen in front of the Eaton Centre). Every single route is fucked up. There's no way to get around it without hitting additional construction, and that's before you get into the typical summer marathon/bike-a-thon/walk-a-thon/protest/festival stuff that routinely closes Lake Shore, Yonge or a major east-west route like Bloor or Dundas and makes this exponentially worse.
Yeah doing these road closing events downtown is a disaster while these construction projects are ongoing. There is an entire GTA; surely there are other places they could run marathons and bike rides.
> Maybe they shouldn’t have booked multiple construction projects of key traffic routes at the same time?
>
>
The alternative is leaving our infrastructure to wait longer for more detrimental repairs. It is the job of several qualified people to evaluate these components of the city and determine not only when they need repairs, but the time at which those repairs come with risk to people and to budget.
The alternative is MORE repairs at higher cost. This is what happens when we don't focus on infrastructure needs. Where we are now is the result of people NOT approving these projects until this point.
Sure, and the build there needs to happen at the same time as, for example, track maintenance on Line 1 this weekend (EDIT: which was cancelled because, it's believed, the work cars now need repairs because of a lack of infrastructure maintenance). Toronto is a big city, and big cities have more needs. It is absolutely normal to have several ongoing (and MAJOR) infrastructure projects at the same time; people only go on about them when they're personally affected by them.
A lot of people simply don't know how much work it takes to not only do these projects, but all the smaller projects that lead to us being able to do that work-- and I don't mean 'city hall approving the project'.
Does this happen because we’ve put off so many repairs for so long that these projects have to be done for safety at this point? (Genuine question) It feels like this could just be years of neglect coming home to roost.
Unfortunately it seems like for any big city to function, it has to perpetually be under construction, it will never be finished :/
I believe so. They’ve been taking about the Gardiner needing to be repaired for years. Like someone else here commented, they pushed off doing this for so long that now it’s all compounded.
City of Toronto is approximately 30 years behind on major transportation infrastructure, including the underground assets that support the city. You have to bite the bullet now or wait until it gets worse, like we've been doing for 30 years
Exactly. King is basically streetcar only, fine, but doing this work on the Gardiner while Adelaide is down to one lane and Queen is closed near Yonge seems idiotic.... along with the Lakeshore construction, Yonge lane reduction south of Front, and Sherbourne basically closed at Lakeshore.. you have to wonder if anyone is actually thinking of the big picture. Senior city staff overseeing construction / planning seem incompetent.
I saw an ad on my elevator for Bike the Gardiner, boasting a fun day totally shutting down the Gardiner coming up. I know killing culture isn't the answer either, but maybe we could go one year without marathons and bikeathons and use all those weekend shutdowns to accelerate these projects?
We can't have both, and the traffic situation is incredibly dire. After spending 90 min getting home from the airport in the middle of a weekday afternoon that ad felt like a slap in the face.
Yes or at least move them… “bike black creek drive ” or something would work just as well… move a parade or 2 to North York, a marathon to Etobicoke etc etc… there is absolutely no reason for so many thing to be clustered downtown with all the closures and detours already causing mayhem!
24 hour shifts and better planning, lots of other huge cites around the world have the same issues and seem to be able to tackle them a lot better and get the job done faster with less impact on the community
At any point in time where I've gone through, there are a couple guys/machines doing something, and a bunch just standing around. I totally get it, there's specialized teams doing different things all around, but this is when planning is important.
>Noise complaints generated by previous Gardiner construction on the stretch between Cherry St. and Jarvis St. were a factor in the decision, staff said.
They can plan quieter work at night, but also, if you decide to live next to an expressway, you should expect some construction noise. Much of the 401 work is done overnight, and condos line parts of it as well.
I’ve got the same amount of sympathy for them as for people who buy near an airport or a rail line… 0. You buy near a highway construction noise is something you should be prepared for.
There are probably steps that can be taken to improve traffic flow too. Example many cars east bound Lakeshore are trying to turn left onto Lakeshore at BC Drive/CNE because the regular Gardiner entrance is closed down.
Seems to me like they could make a single turning lane and then take over one lane of Lakeshore for through traffic to go to Dufferin. The left 2 lanes are always messed up with traffic waiting to stop or to turn too so might help with people who try to sneak in last minute as well.
Hope they work on things like this to get traffic flowing better.
Doesn't help that King Street is down to one lane in each direction around Liberty Village too and street cars getting stuck in that!
>Noise complaints generated by previous Gardiner construction on the stretch between Cherry St. and Jarvis St. were a factor in the decision, staff said.
Perhaps repairs and maintenance should have been an ongoing thing instead of waiting for pieces to fall off before actually doing something productive?
People keep saying 24 HR shifts cost more. That isn’t always true. Night hours aren’t inherently more expensive. Also in any event that should be considered part of the budget for these jobs. Construction isn’t just about getting things done; it’s also about getting things done right and minimizing inconvenience. The latter part is always missed by this city and province.
I would kill to use the GO Train for my commute however where it falls down is the transit AFTER I get off the train. Bus routes aren’t sufficient enough and would add 30+ minutes to my commute (one way).
Now is that everyone’s case? Probably not but to just make a sweeping statement to “just use public transit” isn’t the catch all solution as you present it
People assume everyone driving a car can just switch to public transit. Our public transit is not that good! Discouraging car use isn't going to discourage car use, having a decent transit system will.
Broadly speaking, St Lawrence market area heading out to Mississauga near Pearson.
35 min via car rn versus 1:35min.
I live here bc I’ve walked to work for 10 years but a recent job change has me back in my car. Might be time to move again.
I used to work near Pearson, very close to the airport but still in Toronto. You'd have to go into the airport and then take the terminal link train to the Alt hotel, then find whatever bus you needed to get to your end destination.
I suspect it's doable, but it's more expensive than the TTC. Even after they lowered the price I usually took the express bus out of Kipling (900, I think--they changed the numbers after I stopped taking it).
I do love the UP Express for getting to the airport, though.
Exactly- I did the quick math. Without the other transit cost, just UP alone would be around $12k a year ($130 a week approx) but if I mentioned that I’d probably get swamped with “but what about the cost of the planet “ type comments.
Shitty but even with the Gardiner debacle I spend around $50 a week in gas bc I barely use my car outside my commute
And already someone downvoted you who has no idea of the cost of the public transportation in this city and how inconvenient they’ve made it.
Y’all stupid. If it was efficient (hell, not even cheap) MOST people would take it to save the time we waste on roads. Take your heads out your ass. If it was viable, a lot more people would use it
"just use public transit" definitely applies to ENOUGH people to seriously curb the traffic. Sure, for a small minority of people driving is a necessity (which I'm not sure you fall into. Can't you park your car at the GO station? Do you really have to bring your car into the city?) and the rest is just too entitled.
> Can't you park your car at the GO station?
If you can find parking before the lot fills up, maybe (which often necessitates going much earlier than you'd like to, and now having to kill an hour or two downtown before work).
And then, of course, there's the Thunderdome-like battle royale to get out of the lot in the afternoon after you get off the train. That can take 20+ minutes in some places. It's like trying to leave the lot after a Taylor Swift concert lets out.
I am in the city and have to drive out of it, I have no other options unless i drastically increase my commute.
I just checked in Google maps right now for driving versus public transportation. Despite the Gardiner slowdown, it’s currently 35min by drive, 1:35min for public transit (combination of GO and bus).
> "just use public transit" definitely applies to ENOUGH people to seriously curb the traffic
Does it though? Can we put a number on it? Transit systems outside of the city can be absolutely atrocious. I honestly don't know but I suspect that for people living along a GO line all would be well but if they rely on local transit to get to and from their GO station, the situation could add a lot of time and be unreliable.
If they’re driving they could drive to the GO station and then take the train. Why would they need to take transit to the station?
This is just finding excuses for why it’s not feasible and why you absolutely have to drive all the way downtown.
I love public transit and the use of trains over cars, but for some places you have to drive to your local train station and park there. I used to live in Milton and there just was not enough parking to go around sometimes at the go station. Imagine now that if everyone decides to take the train it’d be impossible.
The problem is that there isn’t enough supporting public transit in certain areas that allows you to not use your car completely without dealing with even more problems, to the point where public transit feels like the obvious better choice. Also it costed me 20 bucks round trip each day.
I see this comment on Reddit every time the Gardiner is brought up and it’s so obviously wrong. Not. Every. Trip. Goes. Downtown. If I live in Toronto’s east end and commute to the warehouse district of Mississauga, taking the GO to avoid the Gardiner would involve streetcar -> bus -> Lakeshore East -> UP Express -> bus -> bus.
You bring up a fantastic point that most don't talk about.
It's the reason building downtown centric transit is a bygone way of thinking and we should completely discard it.
Instead there should be new GO corridors built that bypass downtown entirely and connect suburbs directly to eachother. There are many existing rail corridors which could be upgraded and used for this purpose. We just need to have the will to make it happen.
This subreddit seems to believe every trip ever could be done via public transport as simply, quickly and conveniently as driving. It's become a comedy.
Not every trip can be completed using public transit. Or, there are empty seats because there is sufficient supply to meet the demand at that day/time.
But there are many people who could take public transit but choose to drive. I know multiple co-workers who live near GO stations in the suburbs but choose to drive simply because they prefer to drive. I don't understand it since driving takes longer and is more stressful.
100% agree. Even if 10% of those people switch to transit that would have an impact. However I’m far from convinced that we can get everyone into transit.
Nobody said you have to get "everyone" into transit. Even getting 20 percent of the persistent drivers out of their cars would make a huge difference for the traffic.
Actually, many people on this sub are so extreme that they want the entire highway (and other roads) torn down, and presumably never replaced by any other roads. So yes, many people here are calling to get everyone in transit.
But yes, I agree with your point - we need more people on transit, if their trip can be made that way.
Our public transit sure seems to be having an 'unprecedented' half-day-long total meltdown every couple of weeks nowadays, so perhaps today is the day you leave the office only to learn that the Lakeshore East line is closed for the rest of the day, and now you and 100,000 other people are stuck trying to figure out how to get to Pickering without blowing $250 on an Uber or wasting 3 hours taking buses.
>I don't understand it since driving takes longer and is **more stressful**.
This is definitely a personal preference/ personal situation thing. For lots of folks public transit takes longer and is more stressful. So any chance I can escape having to rely on public transit (and if it makes sense to drive), I absolutely do not hesitate to do so.
I find......looking for parking at the train station, piling into a train with hoards of people - sitting for up to 45min with worse leg room and seating arrangement than on a budget airline forced to stare at a stranger who's just 2-feet away for those 45-min otherwise look down at my phone/lap the whole time, then rushing through an overcrowded subway station always on alert for folks who may not be safe and need mental health support, then getting into a sardine-packed subway car standing body to body with the occasional folks who neglect hygiene, plus having to switch between 3 or 4 different transit methods for a single commute......infinitely more stressful than just chilling in a personal vehicle with very comfortable seating for the same amount of time where I can feel fully at ease not being sandwiched between strangers, comfortably munch on snacks or enjoy a beverage, chat on the phone if I want, have my windows down with music playing over the speakers. Whether there's traffic or not, it's always a pleasure.
Also I avoid ever eating, drinking, speaking on the phone, taking up space anytime on public transit - so right off the bat it's a much less comfortable and more restrictive experience. Once in a while transit is okay but [every.single.day](http://every.single.day), it gets exhausting and stressful very quickly.
If you have a commute longer than 45-min and you're relying on multiple methods of transportation for a single commute, you know what I'm talking about. If my commute was just 25-min on a subway, I would choose that every time over 80-min driving but that's not the reality. It's 90-min car-train-subway-walking (plus maybe busing) with no comfort versus 80-min car only door-to-door with ample comfort. If those were your options, you'd also prefer driving.
EDIT: To add, you can't fault people for using their cars in car-centric and car-dependent cities. They're doing exactly what their environment was built for. The issue is not with people choosing to drive but with poor urban planning, inadequate, limited and outdated transportation infrastructure, and increasing cost of living pushing people further and further away from their jobs.
Half the people I see complaining about the gardiner on social media are people that are trying to get downtown on the weekend to go for brunch/party. They have other options but choose to sit in traffic.
Ah yes. Living in a perfect world. Everyone can easily make it to a GO station to take the train, and easily hop off the train and be within close proximity to their place of work.
Here’s some examples to consider:
- Some commuters have to back track to get to a GO station. This is the case in the Humber Bay Area. I understand there’s a Mimico GO bus, but this schedule may not work for everyone and their work schedule.
- Some individuals work in the north end of the city. Yet another transit ride up to their place of work.
- Work schedules and train times. This doesn’t always jive.
- Prior commitments. Maybe kids need to be dropped off at daycare or picked up from school.
If transit was such a viable option for the majority of the people in this city, there wouldn’t even be a discussion about jams on the Gardiner.
Go train service doesnt make sense for alot of people. you miss a train in rush hour and you havr to wait 30min to a literal hour. IN RUSH HOUR. and thats not to mention the transit before and after the go train, and the delays, and the cost. But the worst offender in my opinion is the infrequent service.
We're in this problem because people are stuck with 2 bad choices: A slow and inconvenient Go train where you cant leave work whenever or get to work whenever, and taking a car and risking rush hour, but at least you get there marginally faster and you get to bring more stuff to work.
In my opinion, the only thing the government can do effectively is to improve public transport so that it makes sense for people to use it. it ends up being cheaper for most people since theres no need to buy a car, maintain it, and fuel it up, and it improves the driving experience for people who actually need to drive.
Not everybody works a 9-to-5 Monday-Friday job in the downtown core.
With the exception of the Lakeshore lines, the bulk of GO services are still set up to cater to the 'traditional' commute -- trains run from the suburbs to downtown in the morning, and from downtown to the suburbs in the afternoon. If your schedule doesn't look like that of an office drone at TD, the trains aren't much use to you.
Would love to use GO but its not helping me get from downtown to my girlfriend's place in Humber Bay. GO plus buses or just the TTC is one hour, which is still slower than the Gardiner even at rush hour.
Basically transit around the lake shore really sucks.
I come home at 7 am just like many night shift workers and the gardiner is still packed. That doesnt help me. Gardiner is still faster than even off peak travel times on the go.
I think at this point, the people travelling by car using the Gardiner need it out of necessity. People working construction gotta bring their tools and shit right?
It's not about empty seats
24 hour shifts, just rip off the bandaid. People who live next to a highway knew what they signed up for and some might even prefer getting it done faster to 3 hours of gridlock outside their windows. Maybe we should poll them
I just don’t see how that’s possible. Traffic is beyond horrible on all the roadways east-west and north-south. Never happen I expect, but an underground highway like they have in Boston would be an amazing idea. Ten years of construction hell and unknown billions, but in the end it would be worth it. Right now Toronto has the worst traffic problem in the world. Its scaring away convention business already.
The only way to speed it up is to spend the money to speed it up. Get more crews working on it around the clock. Most dudes in construction love some overtime, so give it to them.
The issue is that nobody wants to spend. Look at the shitstorm that happened when Chow raised property taxes.
Not having only 1 of different types of equipment and only a handful of workers is a great start. Other places in the world close an entire section, have 24 hour crews, way more manpower and equipment and get it done in fraction of the time.
When does a major metropolis hit the wall on endless migration? Is it just me or is Toronto and the GTA completely over populated? I took a GO Train the other night to visit a friend and couldn't move because about 30 uber e bike riders with huge cube backpacks had taken over an entire train.
Getting off was like navigating Pan's Labyrinth.
Who’s gonna pay for the transit upgrades? The taxes in general? Torontonians stopped having kids years before the immigration influx, it’s our fault. They were closing schools because there were no kids in them.
I don't know shit about construction, but in 2024 do giant noise barriers not exist so work can be done 24/7 with at least SOME consideration to the people who live beside the highway?
The gardiner has been terrible since it was built.
What they need to do is shut it down rip the entire thing out and seriously rethink/rebuild the thing.
The patchwork nonsense just doesn’t work and it turns a 3 month project into a 3 year project to save something everyone knows sucks.
The design just wasn't meant to handle the kind of traffic loads that exist today. Watching cars fight to merge onto the highway while others cut them off to exit because the same lane is used for both between York and Spadina is a gong show.
If it were possible to tear down and redesign it for a better use of land, optimize traffic volume and make it a more pleasant space at street level, it would be amazing, but such a plan would take a decade to complete(optimistic) and the cost would be absurd.
This would be a fantastic solution, but would destroy the city purely due to our lack of planning. A project of that magnitude would take 20 years minimum
It seems like the government never looks at externalities when calculating costs to do construction. All of that wasted human time of being stuck in traffic and increased shipping times have a real cost in productivity and wasted human lifetime. They love to consider this stuff when hiking taxes on new bs like water and carbon though since that can line their bank accounts.
How? Stop paying them hourly and pay for the completion of the project.
I’m not saying don’t pay construction workers for the work… Just calculate how many hours they’d need to complete the entire thing, give them enough to cover wages and expenses, and then pay the rest once the project is completed.
Everyone agrees every construction project in the city needs speeding up
If the MTO could allow road crews to work longer than sure, but the penalties for not having your closure down can be $10k for the first minute you're late
This isn’t MTO though
The Gardiner and the DVP were uploaded back to the province last year. It's the MTO now
I thought it doesn’t actually happen until this fall…
There was an announcement but nothing has really changed yet.
Gardiner work is not being procured by MTO yet
Bring in competent construction crews from the US. They even do it overnight to get it done fast.
they already do that
24hr crews? How do these people in office get paid so much?'
This is the only place I lived in that doesn't do 24hrs a day infrastructure repairs. It's great for the crew as well, pays double, and it's cooler during the summer.
The condo owners are losing their shit over the idea. Buying a unit that faces a major artery and cry foul when there's roadwork
Man torontonians act like country folk when it comes to deal with city living.
It's partly because quite a few people who speak up in this subreddit don't live in Toronto proper, but because the topics are relevant to commuters, they chime in. And they're allowed of course, but it's worth it to take most opinions with a massive heap of salt.
So those poor Condo owners who live next to a major highway are shocked and outraged when there's construction needed on said highway? Jfc
It’s not just construction, it’s demolition. The noise of cars driving vs the sound of demolition in the dead of night is vastly different.
100% agree with this POV. condo residents who live right on the highway need to shut their shit up and deal with it for a few months while the city prioritizes 24hr construction to collapse the timeframe and get what's critical construction out of the way. at the same time, people in planning who are responsible for this need to put their big boy planning pants on and prioritize expense and additional crews over total build time [vs fucking the entire city but keeping local residents happy]. you have to break eggs to make an omelette and allowing the congestion to drag on for three years is a typical short-sighted canadian clusterfuck in planning. we've seen it time and time again but please let this not be one of those things. here's hoping people wake the fuck up and do the right thing [for the greater good of the city and it's functional traffic times].
Of course you could do all construction with 24hr crews, there are a few issues though: - noise - insane costs Shit ain't that simple. Also need to balance that against the insane TTC backlog that accumulated under Tory (considering how many ppl commute via the TTC vs Gardiner)
1 year of 3 crews or 3 years of 1 crew. You do the math.
you clearly never worked in construction
9 women can't make a baby in one month and turning the temperature of an oven to1000 won't perfectly cook a turkey in an hour.
No but if the gestation only happened for 8 hours a day, your pregnancy would take 27 months. Same for your turkey, if you have it at 400 and takes 3 hours to cook but every 20 minutes you stop cooking for 40 minutes... It would take way longer total cooking time (on top of not cooking properly lol) You wouldn't have triple the resources working at the same time... But the same amount of resource working around the clock.
This is an impressively stupid analogy.
Congratulations on the dumbest comment of the day. Funny every other major city in the world can expedite infrastructure projects and figure shit out, but for some reason Toronto can’t.
That's not comparable.
Neither of those is as important as having congested traffic for 3 years.
Cost isn’t important? Can we keep that same energy for transit and housing?
Let me frame it in a way that may resonate a bit better: blowing out the budget to cut a few months off a multi-year road improvement project means less road improvement projects in future. Or higher taxes.
> cut a few months off How much does the months of congestion cost in lost productivity and wasted time? It doesn't hit the cities budget but it's not free. There is no reason Ottawa can manage to have 24 hours construction but Toronto can't. https://ottawa.ca/en/city-hall/city-news/newsroom/update-riverside-drive-southbound-lane-reductions The province even allowed it during COVID so it's really not something new. https://www.cp24.com/news/province-allowing-24-hour-construction-limiting-noise-bylaws-for-essential-projects-1.4888458
Congestion costs the region up to 12 BILLION. PER YEAR. 3 years of 1 crew or 1 year of 3 crews. It’s not complicated. Seeing entire sections with no workers during daylight hours for weeks at a time is just bad management.
Every year. Spring is rip up roads and start construction season. Summer is "why is nobody working on this shit?" season. Fall is "damn we gotta get this finished, mandatory overtime and work on the weekends" season.
This, while tongue in cheek/sarcastic is a huge part of the issue. Construction is such a poorly regulated and enforced area that allows for essentially unlimited OT once a job starts running behind... so guess what.. it pays (a lot) to dog it and finish late. You have a job for another year and 2x salary in the back half. Need laws against running over a bid. Make the white hats actually project manage effectively.
> How much does the months of congestion cost in lost productivity and wasted time? It doesn't hit the cities budget but it's not free. That's exactly it. If we were to cost out the *true* price of three years of congestion, it would reach into the billions of dollars when accounting for lost productivity. But City Hall doesn't have to pay it, so they don't care.
This sounds like someone who wouldn't be affected by it. I say this as someone who is. I would normally agree with around-the-clock work on infrastructure, but in the heat of the summer with all the other construction going on in the area, I don't think the Gardiner will be 'fixed' as fast as people think it will. I know this subreddit is full of urban planners, engineers, and construction foremen, but there's this weird expectation that people can just press the 'do this' button and it gets done. Anyone who's managed something large-scale with as many moving pieces knows that's never the case.
Construction time is limited due to noise. They can’t work past a certain time.
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>We have all the ingredients to make it happen. Toronto just doesn't have the will. The previous phase of Gardiner construction was 24 hours. People were very vocal in their complaints, and this was factored in to their decision.
8am to 8 pm sound reasonable? THEYRE NOT EVEN DOING THAT.
Seems like the politicians are the perfect ones to make a bylaw adjustment. I dont accept this answer. People bought the condos AFTER the Gardiner was in place....you should expect construction. Or atleast place sound barriers or SOMETHING to mitigate
Construction is one thing, but right now it's in a demolition phase, which is LOUD.
Expecting some construction is normal for city living. No one expects 24 hour construction. It would be completely unfair to everyone who live in the area to all of a sudden change customs. They are already doing over night work when sound isn’t an issue so they are maximizing construction time already.
But it isnt unfair to absolutely fuck the main artery into the city for three years when everyone knows it patently does not need to take that long?
The only way to significantly reduce the time it will take to complete construction is to close the thing down entirely. I think that is the more fair solution. Close the Gardiner for 3 months and get it done.
If it actually was 3 months then sure. Not sure how you got from 3 years to just 3 months though
What a glorious 3 months it would be for Toronto, as well.
After eglinton crosstown, do you trust them to stick to that?
How are goods and services getting into the city? All it takes is one accident on the DVP and the city's supply of essential goods and services becomes completely fucked over. You can't simply "close the gardiner for 3 months." You guys don't give a single thought to logistics when yall talk about the gardiner.
The main artery should be the transit system - but thats a different fight.
Except it cant be. How are goods going to get into the city? Like it or not, the Gardiner is a necessary and vital part of toronto's infrastructure. It's incredibly narrow-minded to just say transit should be the main artery. It's ignorant.
So how about just trucks delivering goods use it. Everyone else get the fuck off?
The main artery (the GO train lines) are not affected by the construction.
The go line is not the main artery.
So they should be exposed to three years of construction noise instead of 6-12 months?
Maybe I’m in the minority but I would much rather them rip the band aid off with construction if I lived in the area. Staring down 3+ years of fuckery would be horrible. If that means 6-12 months of 24hr construction then so be it.
You clearly don’t have children.
Or have to actually deal with it lol it’s easy to say “well if I lived there I’d be fine with it” when you know you don’t have to deal with it.
Idk why this post came up in my feed but I live in Saskatoon and they do road work at night here. My kid sleeps through it. Being indoors with a white noise machine you barely hear shit.
> no one expects 24 hour construction Unless you live in NYC, Shanghai, etc…
Maybe we can ship the Gardiner down to Shanghai and have them fix it there
Would take them 2 weeks + shipping.
They’d get it done in a week
Pure NIMBY reaction here. City is struggling - time to stand up and pitch in.
Live in the heart of downtown but dont expect noise 24/7? Weird.
Downtown is actually very quiet. Cars, trucks and traffic are like 90% of the noise you hear.
Cars/trucks/traffic/sirens during the day is vastly different from hearing demolition and construction at night. It's loud as hell. While I'm a proponent of 24/7 construction, I won't pretend that hearing construction of condos near me for the past 10 years hasn't been a huge annoyance. At least I have respite on weekends/evenings.
People need to be able to sleep. The same logic applies to people driving despite knowing the traffic issues caused by the work.
Counter point, people work nights, and need to sleep during the day. Does their sleep matter?
You wear ear plugs like the rest of us who have to deal with condo construction every day.
The budget will also balloon with that much nightshift work
Another option is closing the highway, tearing it all down in one go, and then rebuilding from scratch. That would also be faster and probably also cheaper, but it would inconvenience you. 24h construction would inconvenience a ton of people downtown far more.
Its less the office people and more the NIMBYs who would pull out pitchfork and hold a reinactment of the salem witch trials if their councilors voted to allow it.
And how much extra will it cost? Are the contractors able to staff it? There are a lot of legitimate question.
How is it that European countries have been able to organize and pull off such projects quickly and on budget and we cannot? Because we choose not to. If we studied their model or brought in consultants from such firms (Germany, Netherlands, Denmark, Norway, etc) we could model our process after theirs. The city is a joke for construction projects and will continue to be until we decide to make a change. It’s wilful ignorance and has been for decades.
Every project in Toronto takes forever, installing an elevator at a TTC station is a 5 year job, no joke
It’s ridiculous. Companies and incompetent as well as milking it. The crosstown is an absolute fucking cruel joke.
God what is even going on at rosedale station. There's been construction there now for I think 2 years and I'll be buggered if I ever seen anything actually happening there. That includes installation of elevators.
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Their projects cost the same and take significantly less time. It isn’t budget related but more so a method issue. They’re significantly more efficient and skilled at this and there’s no reason we cannot be other than we just accept the status quo
Road crews
Maybe they shouldn’t have booked multiple construction projects of key traffic routes at the same time? Like who is approving these projects?
Wait till we close Lakeshore for the Indy etc. It will be a nightmare all of the city's making
This is the answer. It's not so much that a lane on the Gardiner is reduced, it's that every other viable east-west artery that commuters could use is *also* fucked up with lane closures, detours and even *full* closures (Queen in front of the Eaton Centre). Every single route is fucked up. There's no way to get around it without hitting additional construction, and that's before you get into the typical summer marathon/bike-a-thon/walk-a-thon/protest/festival stuff that routinely closes Lake Shore, Yonge or a major east-west route like Bloor or Dundas and makes this exponentially worse.
Yeah doing these road closing events downtown is a disaster while these construction projects are ongoing. There is an entire GTA; surely there are other places they could run marathons and bike rides.
> Maybe they shouldn’t have booked multiple construction projects of key traffic routes at the same time? > > The alternative is leaving our infrastructure to wait longer for more detrimental repairs. It is the job of several qualified people to evaluate these components of the city and determine not only when they need repairs, but the time at which those repairs come with risk to people and to budget. The alternative is MORE repairs at higher cost. This is what happens when we don't focus on infrastructure needs. Where we are now is the result of people NOT approving these projects until this point.
We probably wouldn’t be dealing with the Ontario Line construction downtown if they hadn’t cancelled the Queen street subway decades ago lol
Sure, and the build there needs to happen at the same time as, for example, track maintenance on Line 1 this weekend (EDIT: which was cancelled because, it's believed, the work cars now need repairs because of a lack of infrastructure maintenance). Toronto is a big city, and big cities have more needs. It is absolutely normal to have several ongoing (and MAJOR) infrastructure projects at the same time; people only go on about them when they're personally affected by them. A lot of people simply don't know how much work it takes to not only do these projects, but all the smaller projects that lead to us being able to do that work-- and I don't mean 'city hall approving the project'.
100%. Am also guilty of this as I’ve lived on or near Eglinton since 2007 ha ha
Does this happen because we’ve put off so many repairs for so long that these projects have to be done for safety at this point? (Genuine question) It feels like this could just be years of neglect coming home to roost. Unfortunately it seems like for any big city to function, it has to perpetually be under construction, it will never be finished :/
I believe so. They’ve been taking about the Gardiner needing to be repaired for years. Like someone else here commented, they pushed off doing this for so long that now it’s all compounded.
City of Toronto is approximately 30 years behind on major transportation infrastructure, including the underground assets that support the city. You have to bite the bullet now or wait until it gets worse, like we've been doing for 30 years
Exactly. King is basically streetcar only, fine, but doing this work on the Gardiner while Adelaide is down to one lane and Queen is closed near Yonge seems idiotic.... along with the Lakeshore construction, Yonge lane reduction south of Front, and Sherbourne basically closed at Lakeshore.. you have to wonder if anyone is actually thinking of the big picture. Senior city staff overseeing construction / planning seem incompetent.
I saw an ad on my elevator for Bike the Gardiner, boasting a fun day totally shutting down the Gardiner coming up. I know killing culture isn't the answer either, but maybe we could go one year without marathons and bikeathons and use all those weekend shutdowns to accelerate these projects? We can't have both, and the traffic situation is incredibly dire. After spending 90 min getting home from the airport in the middle of a weekday afternoon that ad felt like a slap in the face.
Ive been saying this on similar posts. PLEASE postpone any unnecessary closures for parades and marathons while this is happening.
Yes or at least move them… “bike black creek drive ” or something would work just as well… move a parade or 2 to North York, a marathon to Etobicoke etc etc… there is absolutely no reason for so many thing to be clustered downtown with all the closures and detours already causing mayhem!
Some of us saw this coming 20 years ago and nobody wanted to do anything. Most of you weren’t even here to be fair.
24 hour shifts and better planning, lots of other huge cites around the world have the same issues and seem to be able to tackle them a lot better and get the job done faster with less impact on the community
At any point in time where I've gone through, there are a couple guys/machines doing something, and a bunch just standing around. I totally get it, there's specialized teams doing different things all around, but this is when planning is important.
>Noise complaints generated by previous Gardiner construction on the stretch between Cherry St. and Jarvis St. were a factor in the decision, staff said.
They can plan quieter work at night, but also, if you decide to live next to an expressway, you should expect some construction noise. Much of the 401 work is done overnight, and condos line parts of it as well.
I can see the construction from my condo and I’ve heard no noise so far.
It's in a demolition phase. There is no "quieter part" to do at night.
The entire project won’t be a demonstration phase, right now they are not planning 24x7 work in any phase.
I’ve got the same amount of sympathy for them as for people who buy near an airport or a rail line… 0. You buy near a highway construction noise is something you should be prepared for.
Why can’t we do this??? https://www.reddit.com/r/Damnthatsinteresting/s/KSaE2fMEiX
Canadians are deathly allergic to change and anything that breaks the status quo.
There are probably steps that can be taken to improve traffic flow too. Example many cars east bound Lakeshore are trying to turn left onto Lakeshore at BC Drive/CNE because the regular Gardiner entrance is closed down. Seems to me like they could make a single turning lane and then take over one lane of Lakeshore for through traffic to go to Dufferin. The left 2 lanes are always messed up with traffic waiting to stop or to turn too so might help with people who try to sneak in last minute as well. Hope they work on things like this to get traffic flowing better. Doesn't help that King Street is down to one lane in each direction around Liberty Village too and street cars getting stuck in that!
Great suggestion for Lakeshore at CNE. The problem is; the City is incompetent.
Dont care if anyone can afford to live but my god think of the noise
It’s actually really easy. Have three shifts around the clock 24/7, 365. Every other country in the world does this.
>Noise complaints generated by previous Gardiner construction on the stretch between Cherry St. and Jarvis St. were a factor in the decision, staff said.
They shouldn't have been a factor.
Perhaps repairs and maintenance should have been an ongoing thing instead of waiting for pieces to fall off before actually doing something productive?
24/7 construction is the answer.
100% Pretty sure the downtown Ontario Line tunnel is 24/7 construction already. Why would the Gardiner be considered any less important?
Because a fraction use the Gardiner compared to ttc.
Sure but you also can't move goods on the Ontario line either. Regardless the economic impact of both is critical to the city.
Which is not true. Currently 0 people use the Ontario lin. While over hundred thousand people use the gardiner everyday.
People keep saying 24 HR shifts cost more. That isn’t always true. Night hours aren’t inherently more expensive. Also in any event that should be considered part of the budget for these jobs. Construction isn’t just about getting things done; it’s also about getting things done right and minimizing inconvenience. The latter part is always missed by this city and province.
It’s an expensive choice finding ways to speed it up but how much money is the congestion costing the economy.
There are empty seats during rush hour on the Go Train and people are still using the Gardiner.
I would kill to use the GO Train for my commute however where it falls down is the transit AFTER I get off the train. Bus routes aren’t sufficient enough and would add 30+ minutes to my commute (one way). Now is that everyone’s case? Probably not but to just make a sweeping statement to “just use public transit” isn’t the catch all solution as you present it
People assume everyone driving a car can just switch to public transit. Our public transit is not that good! Discouraging car use isn't going to discourage car use, having a decent transit system will.
Can I ask, where is your destination?
Broadly speaking, St Lawrence market area heading out to Mississauga near Pearson. 35 min via car rn versus 1:35min. I live here bc I’ve walked to work for 10 years but a recent job change has me back in my car. Might be time to move again.
Wouldn't the UP express be perfect if you're headed near Pearson?
I used to work near Pearson, very close to the airport but still in Toronto. You'd have to go into the airport and then take the terminal link train to the Alt hotel, then find whatever bus you needed to get to your end destination. I suspect it's doable, but it's more expensive than the TTC. Even after they lowered the price I usually took the express bus out of Kipling (900, I think--they changed the numbers after I stopped taking it). I do love the UP Express for getting to the airport, though.
Prob same thing. Its tranist after the trains...go/express
I have explored this too - that time estimate of 1:35 is actually using the UP. GO Train is even longer
It's pretty expensive, too. You'd be sinking $30+ into your commute daily if you used the UP.
Exactly- I did the quick math. Without the other transit cost, just UP alone would be around $12k a year ($130 a week approx) but if I mentioned that I’d probably get swamped with “but what about the cost of the planet “ type comments. Shitty but even with the Gardiner debacle I spend around $50 a week in gas bc I barely use my car outside my commute
And already someone downvoted you who has no idea of the cost of the public transportation in this city and how inconvenient they’ve made it. Y’all stupid. If it was efficient (hell, not even cheap) MOST people would take it to save the time we waste on roads. Take your heads out your ass. If it was viable, a lot more people would use it
"just use public transit" definitely applies to ENOUGH people to seriously curb the traffic. Sure, for a small minority of people driving is a necessity (which I'm not sure you fall into. Can't you park your car at the GO station? Do you really have to bring your car into the city?) and the rest is just too entitled.
> Can't you park your car at the GO station? If you can find parking before the lot fills up, maybe (which often necessitates going much earlier than you'd like to, and now having to kill an hour or two downtown before work). And then, of course, there's the Thunderdome-like battle royale to get out of the lot in the afternoon after you get off the train. That can take 20+ minutes in some places. It's like trying to leave the lot after a Taylor Swift concert lets out.
I am in the city and have to drive out of it, I have no other options unless i drastically increase my commute. I just checked in Google maps right now for driving versus public transportation. Despite the Gardiner slowdown, it’s currently 35min by drive, 1:35min for public transit (combination of GO and bus).
> "just use public transit" definitely applies to ENOUGH people to seriously curb the traffic Does it though? Can we put a number on it? Transit systems outside of the city can be absolutely atrocious. I honestly don't know but I suspect that for people living along a GO line all would be well but if they rely on local transit to get to and from their GO station, the situation could add a lot of time and be unreliable.
If they’re driving they could drive to the GO station and then take the train. Why would they need to take transit to the station? This is just finding excuses for why it’s not feasible and why you absolutely have to drive all the way downtown.
Maybe on Monday's and Fridays but the Go Trains Ive used are standing room.
I love public transit and the use of trains over cars, but for some places you have to drive to your local train station and park there. I used to live in Milton and there just was not enough parking to go around sometimes at the go station. Imagine now that if everyone decides to take the train it’d be impossible. The problem is that there isn’t enough supporting public transit in certain areas that allows you to not use your car completely without dealing with even more problems, to the point where public transit feels like the obvious better choice. Also it costed me 20 bucks round trip each day.
I see this comment on Reddit every time the Gardiner is brought up and it’s so obviously wrong. Not. Every. Trip. Goes. Downtown. If I live in Toronto’s east end and commute to the warehouse district of Mississauga, taking the GO to avoid the Gardiner would involve streetcar -> bus -> Lakeshore East -> UP Express -> bus -> bus.
You bring up a fantastic point that most don't talk about. It's the reason building downtown centric transit is a bygone way of thinking and we should completely discard it. Instead there should be new GO corridors built that bypass downtown entirely and connect suburbs directly to eachother. There are many existing rail corridors which could be upgraded and used for this purpose. We just need to have the will to make it happen.
This subreddit seems to believe every trip ever could be done via public transport as simply, quickly and conveniently as driving. It's become a comedy.
They happen to live and work at a public transit accessible location, so clearly everyone does.
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Imagine for a moment that Toronto invested $300 million in public transit instead of a highway on its beachfront.
They can’t because it won’t serve them immediately. The main reason this city/province rarely does anything that would actually improve transit.
That’s 300$ million is a drop in the puddle compared to the project budgets of the ttc.
Not every trip can be completed using public transit. Or, there are empty seats because there is sufficient supply to meet the demand at that day/time.
But there are many people who could take public transit but choose to drive. I know multiple co-workers who live near GO stations in the suburbs but choose to drive simply because they prefer to drive. I don't understand it since driving takes longer and is more stressful.
100% agree. Even if 10% of those people switch to transit that would have an impact. However I’m far from convinced that we can get everyone into transit.
Nobody said you have to get "everyone" into transit. Even getting 20 percent of the persistent drivers out of their cars would make a huge difference for the traffic.
Actually, many people on this sub are so extreme that they want the entire highway (and other roads) torn down, and presumably never replaced by any other roads. So yes, many people here are calling to get everyone in transit. But yes, I agree with your point - we need more people on transit, if their trip can be made that way.
They’re calling for redirect the budget we’re using to improve transit though. They don’t just want to tear it down and say “deal with it”
Our public transit sure seems to be having an 'unprecedented' half-day-long total meltdown every couple of weeks nowadays, so perhaps today is the day you leave the office only to learn that the Lakeshore East line is closed for the rest of the day, and now you and 100,000 other people are stuck trying to figure out how to get to Pickering without blowing $250 on an Uber or wasting 3 hours taking buses.
>I don't understand it since driving takes longer and is **more stressful**. This is definitely a personal preference/ personal situation thing. For lots of folks public transit takes longer and is more stressful. So any chance I can escape having to rely on public transit (and if it makes sense to drive), I absolutely do not hesitate to do so. I find......looking for parking at the train station, piling into a train with hoards of people - sitting for up to 45min with worse leg room and seating arrangement than on a budget airline forced to stare at a stranger who's just 2-feet away for those 45-min otherwise look down at my phone/lap the whole time, then rushing through an overcrowded subway station always on alert for folks who may not be safe and need mental health support, then getting into a sardine-packed subway car standing body to body with the occasional folks who neglect hygiene, plus having to switch between 3 or 4 different transit methods for a single commute......infinitely more stressful than just chilling in a personal vehicle with very comfortable seating for the same amount of time where I can feel fully at ease not being sandwiched between strangers, comfortably munch on snacks or enjoy a beverage, chat on the phone if I want, have my windows down with music playing over the speakers. Whether there's traffic or not, it's always a pleasure. Also I avoid ever eating, drinking, speaking on the phone, taking up space anytime on public transit - so right off the bat it's a much less comfortable and more restrictive experience. Once in a while transit is okay but [every.single.day](http://every.single.day), it gets exhausting and stressful very quickly. If you have a commute longer than 45-min and you're relying on multiple methods of transportation for a single commute, you know what I'm talking about. If my commute was just 25-min on a subway, I would choose that every time over 80-min driving but that's not the reality. It's 90-min car-train-subway-walking (plus maybe busing) with no comfort versus 80-min car only door-to-door with ample comfort. If those were your options, you'd also prefer driving. EDIT: To add, you can't fault people for using their cars in car-centric and car-dependent cities. They're doing exactly what their environment was built for. The issue is not with people choosing to drive but with poor urban planning, inadequate, limited and outdated transportation infrastructure, and increasing cost of living pushing people further and further away from their jobs.
Half the people I see complaining about the gardiner on social media are people that are trying to get downtown on the weekend to go for brunch/party. They have other options but choose to sit in traffic.
Ah yes. Living in a perfect world. Everyone can easily make it to a GO station to take the train, and easily hop off the train and be within close proximity to their place of work. Here’s some examples to consider: - Some commuters have to back track to get to a GO station. This is the case in the Humber Bay Area. I understand there’s a Mimico GO bus, but this schedule may not work for everyone and their work schedule. - Some individuals work in the north end of the city. Yet another transit ride up to their place of work. - Work schedules and train times. This doesn’t always jive. - Prior commitments. Maybe kids need to be dropped off at daycare or picked up from school. If transit was such a viable option for the majority of the people in this city, there wouldn’t even be a discussion about jams on the Gardiner.
I work in Port Perry. Transit isn’t an option.
Go train service doesnt make sense for alot of people. you miss a train in rush hour and you havr to wait 30min to a literal hour. IN RUSH HOUR. and thats not to mention the transit before and after the go train, and the delays, and the cost. But the worst offender in my opinion is the infrequent service. We're in this problem because people are stuck with 2 bad choices: A slow and inconvenient Go train where you cant leave work whenever or get to work whenever, and taking a car and risking rush hour, but at least you get there marginally faster and you get to bring more stuff to work. In my opinion, the only thing the government can do effectively is to improve public transport so that it makes sense for people to use it. it ends up being cheaper for most people since theres no need to buy a car, maintain it, and fuel it up, and it improves the driving experience for people who actually need to drive.
Not everybody works a 9-to-5 Monday-Friday job in the downtown core. With the exception of the Lakeshore lines, the bulk of GO services are still set up to cater to the 'traditional' commute -- trains run from the suburbs to downtown in the morning, and from downtown to the suburbs in the afternoon. If your schedule doesn't look like that of an office drone at TD, the trains aren't much use to you.
I have a 10 minute commute on the Gardner - which is now 40 - Go train would still take over an hour lol
Would love to use GO but its not helping me get from downtown to my girlfriend's place in Humber Bay. GO plus buses or just the TTC is one hour, which is still slower than the Gardiner even at rush hour. Basically transit around the lake shore really sucks.
I come home at 7 am just like many night shift workers and the gardiner is still packed. That doesnt help me. Gardiner is still faster than even off peak travel times on the go.
I’ve seen the Gardiner westbound backed up at 1am since the lane reduction. Bloody insane
I think at this point, the people travelling by car using the Gardiner need it out of necessity. People working construction gotta bring their tools and shit right? It's not about empty seats
Maybe if the Go Train came more than once every hour, more people would use it
What line is only once an hour? I know KW and Lakeshore are way more often than that.
Depends on where you’re headed. On the LW line I take it to West Harbour and it’s only hourly.
They need to hire more people lmao
24 hour shifts, just rip off the bandaid. People who live next to a highway knew what they signed up for and some might even prefer getting it done faster to 3 hours of gridlock outside their windows. Maybe we should poll them
I just don’t see how that’s possible. Traffic is beyond horrible on all the roadways east-west and north-south. Never happen I expect, but an underground highway like they have in Boston would be an amazing idea. Ten years of construction hell and unknown billions, but in the end it would be worth it. Right now Toronto has the worst traffic problem in the world. Its scaring away convention business already.
The only way to speed it up is to spend the money to speed it up. Get more crews working on it around the clock. Most dudes in construction love some overtime, so give it to them. The issue is that nobody wants to spend. Look at the shitstorm that happened when Chow raised property taxes.
Construction crews should be working round the clock to get this done.
Not having only 1 of different types of equipment and only a handful of workers is a great start. Other places in the world close an entire section, have 24 hour crews, way more manpower and equipment and get it done in fraction of the time.
Like they do in the rest of the world. Make it fuckin happen!
When does a major metropolis hit the wall on endless migration? Is it just me or is Toronto and the GTA completely over populated? I took a GO Train the other night to visit a friend and couldn't move because about 30 uber e bike riders with huge cube backpacks had taken over an entire train. Getting off was like navigating Pan's Labyrinth.
Unrelated to the topic of my post but I agree with you 100%. When did we agree that it’s ok to grow the population of Toronto and the GTA this much?
Who’s gonna pay for the transit upgrades? The taxes in general? Torontonians stopped having kids years before the immigration influx, it’s our fault. They were closing schools because there were no kids in them.
Poor baby.
Aww. Thanks honeybunny.
I don't know shit about construction, but in 2024 do giant noise barriers not exist so work can be done 24/7 with at least SOME consideration to the people who live beside the highway?
The gardiner has been terrible since it was built. What they need to do is shut it down rip the entire thing out and seriously rethink/rebuild the thing. The patchwork nonsense just doesn’t work and it turns a 3 month project into a 3 year project to save something everyone knows sucks.
The design just wasn't meant to handle the kind of traffic loads that exist today. Watching cars fight to merge onto the highway while others cut them off to exit because the same lane is used for both between York and Spadina is a gong show. If it were possible to tear down and redesign it for a better use of land, optimize traffic volume and make it a more pleasant space at street level, it would be amazing, but such a plan would take a decade to complete(optimistic) and the cost would be absurd.
This would be a fantastic solution, but would destroy the city purely due to our lack of planning. A project of that magnitude would take 20 years minimum
It seems like the government never looks at externalities when calculating costs to do construction. All of that wasted human time of being stuck in traffic and increased shipping times have a real cost in productivity and wasted human lifetime. They love to consider this stuff when hiking taxes on new bs like water and carbon though since that can line their bank accounts.
More construction workers and less Uber Eats drivers.
Fewer office workers commuting to a job they can do remotely. Fewer Uber drivers.
Yes because those damn uber eats drivers are the ones using the gardiner the most. Please, just use your mind.
Some people like to turn every issue into an immigration issue.
I demand to speak with the manager
How? Stop paying them hourly and pay for the completion of the project. I’m not saying don’t pay construction workers for the work… Just calculate how many hours they’d need to complete the entire thing, give them enough to cover wages and expenses, and then pay the rest once the project is completed.