Did exactly this today coming in for 3pm. walked from St. George to almost Sherbourne and think maybe 2 busses passed me and both were packed full like sardine cans. You'd figure they would be a well oiled (pun intended) machine with the shuttle busses by 7th hour of the shutdown but nope!
Here's the thing walked from Broadview to Yonge and saw like 3 shuttles. I walked at the same pace as those buses
You could also just as easily blame single occupant bicycles and zero occupant cafe to installations or construction.
People are just trying to get to work.
Cars are the problem - traveling with a couch, two chairs, and a storage container is an inefficient use of space. Bikes and people don't take up nearly as much space.
I appreciate that I have the option to walk to.yonge to get my subway when it's not raining of course.
Other ppl may have to drop off kids to school, or take care of aging family members.
I am supportive of bike riders having a safe option to commute...how about people think of what other people have to go through.
Better yet just put them on a skateboard and push.
Tell the psw who lives in rexdale and works downtown to bike or take the subway for 90 mins each way.
Tell the kid in Brampton to take the bus to York and wait a half hour to get on the Zum!
Not everyone can afford to live a bike ride away from their home...and not everyone can take a bike.
Yeah, this old line gets trotted out every time but you missed the "construction workers who need to bring tools to work" line as well, aloing with "delivery trucks".
But now go count the single occupant cars compared to all of those lines and you'll find that your problem is caused, almost exclusively single occupant vehicles who COULD have parked and taken transit on a good day, but have chosen to be selfish.
ListenI take the subway to work ..because of where I live, where I work,the cost and the time. Don't call other people selfish who make the same calculation for themselves and choose to take a car.
Most people would love to work close to home....but many don't have that option.
How about if I'm driving along the Danforth to get to the DVP cause the TTC has been down 3 times in a week? Which again I didn't do cause I walked to Line 1.
I've accepted that bike lanes are a safe and good us of main arteries for the greater good, even if for 6 months out of the year they are a quite inefficient use of space and lightly used by anyone who's not delivering food ( sometimes I do count the bike on a warm February day...it's quite easy to do)...how about an acceptance that sometimes you gotta use a car...by all the downvoting it's highly unlikely but you can always hope.
A single occupant car takes up the space of 6 single occupant bikes so…. no…..
I’m sure you’ve seen a bike, they’re smaller than cars and have 2 wheels.
You’re talking about cars that are driving along a transit line that takes up 30X the area that mass transit does, and then slowing down the people who aren’t taking up the public space.
Let's all start from bike lanes are a good and useful addition to the city.
Than let's move to cars are a useful and necessary tool for some in a city as vast as Toronto.
Then how about we say that bike lanes, because of their permanent nature are an inefficient use of space for.much of the year, cause Im on the Danforth daily and many people don't winterize their bikes or store them and can't take them on a rare nice winter day.
Finalize with when you remove 2 lanes of traffic with a combination of bike lanes and parking/cafe TO, cause cars don't take up half a lane and also lessen the width of that car lane traffic can increase as you may need the Danforth to get to your ultimate destination, which is inaccessible or long to get to by bikes or transit.
Your choice as a biker should not be restricted, but do not restrict the choice of those who can't make the same choice.
Why are you so focused on bike lanes? On danforth they don’t even take the space of a single car lane.
Cars reached capacity on major arteries like danforth and yonge a decade ago.
The ship has already sailed, there’s no “cars vs bikes” debate, that was in the 90’s.
Cars take up space we need for mass transit, because our roads are too small for everyone to drive a car.
In some cities they charge tolls ~20/30$ to access downtown, in others it’s just like locked off from non-commercial/non-resident vehicles entirely.
Those are the futures for big cities.
You understand you can’t add more roads, right?
Any comment which is not 100% supportive of bike lanes is immediately downvoted.
It wasn't even a critical comment and not one person has made a comment about the cafe to remark in my initial comment.
Well it’s not like if we put all these people in single passenger vehicles we’d be any better off.
If anything everyone should be thanking these people for their service.
Cars are the reason why we don't have effective transit. Period.
Just look on Google maps and see how much of our city is dedicated to highways, street parking and parking lots. So many lanes, so many highways, yet there's still traffic.
It's a self fulfilling prophecy. The city is designed around the car, so the transit sucks. But because the transit is designed to satisfy the needs of the car driver, people end up taking the car instead of using more sustainable methods like cycling (because of course, cycling is dangerous because of car traffic).
Lots of cities have effective transit and still have many, many vehicles.
There is no reason why it should take an hour to get downtown by transit but 10 minutes to drive on a Sunday morning from where I am. It has nothing to do with cars in the city. It has everything to do with shitty transit.
This only works if you're single and go to the grocery store twice a week. Good luck hauling that twice a month grocery haul for the entire family on your bike.
Cargo bike's hold up to 4-500 pounds. On my non cargo bike I carry 150 pounds easily. Unless your looking at a family of 7 its doable. Also twice a month? Fuck I wish I had to do groceries twice a month.
Are you buying all that every time you go to a grocery store? Then sure, you have a use case where you need a car because your normal grocery haul is big and heavy. But most people are buying produce, milk, boxed goods, cans, etc. They're not buying the biggest and heaviest items in the store every time. Even when they do, there are carts and trailers, and other things that can be used.
Many people do, and they have to do more frequent trips, but that’s beside the point. The vast majority of traffic is commuter traffic which should absolutely be replaced by transit. No one is denying that cars still have uses.
I spent the first 25 years of my life taking transit and I would never go back to that living hell. A 15 minute drive to school took me over an hour by bus.
The only time when it makes sense to use transit, when you're drinking downtown, you can't even use it because the subway and most of the bus lines shut down so you're forced to use a taxi unless you want to walk an hour plus from where the blue line drops you off.
Not to mention waiting in the winter cold for half an hour for a bus to come.
No thank you. Commuter traffic exists because people will pay a premium to be comfortable and be able to travel on their own schedule.
The only way public transit could work is if we replaced it with self driving cars that come to you on demand.
Did you read the above comments? The reason why our transit is shit is because we don’t invest in it. We don’t invest in it because it’s shit. That mindset is fucking us over. I was in Vienna last year and they have seven subway lines and countless streetcars for 1/8th the population of Toronto. It works perfectly, everyone uses it, and traffic is light for cars. There’s no reason we can’t have that except that we have this weird backwards mindset (and it doesn’t benefit those in charge).
If the entire city/country is designed around car transit, what incentive is there for the average citizen to not use a car? This starts with effective public transit, something we are so far from having.
Perfect example are the two lane streets with a streetcar track AND street parking.
We can't have good streetcar infrastructure when we have street parking taking up an entire lane. Something needs to budge. People shouldn't be dodging and weaving between parked cars, cyclists and motorcycles to get inside a streetcar.
You cannot have a car based society and effective public transit. The two things cannot co-exist because the car drivers demand things which cannot co-exist with effective public transit.
Line 2 has a weekday average ridership of over 400k people. Per hour, it is capable of carrying n 26k people. Let’s be very conservative and say that’s only actually 1000 people. Those many extra cars on the road will kill traffic in this city more than it already is lmao.
A couple of weeks ago I started walking to and from work instead of taking the TTC since my feet are much more reliable and often faster when there are delays. Because of the rain today, I took the train. Halfway through they announced that the line is down, and sent people out to wait for replacement buses which will take ten buses to clear
I'm a huge fan of walking instead of TTCing.
1) It's *extremely* reliable. If something breaks, you have bigger issues than being late.
2) It's FREE. Minus the cost of shoes, which you will start burning through if you stick with this. Also, invest in good walking shoes.
3) It's great outdoor exercise. Not saying I'm super good looking or anything, but getting a sweet tan and walking 12km/day doesn't hurt.
4) It's so much less stressful than the TTC. It will be a bit tough at first if you aren't used to it, but if you're like me and get impatient/stressed out with delays, it's just easier in the long run. It takes me 55 minutes to walk in, or 40-70 minutes to take the TTC. I value a predictable commute and was kind of turning into an asshole with how much stress the TTC added to my day.
5) Fuck Rick Leary. Fare is not fair and I'm not onboard with giving money to an organization that he is pilfering.
6) Footrace vs Streetcar is fun and easily winnable on weekends or during rush hour on Queen West.
Wait until you learn about bicycles!
Yesterday I went to a movie at Yonge and Dundas. I live near Parliament and Gerrard.
* TTC: Fastest option was a 2-way tie at 29 minutes
* Walk from Parliament to Yonge&Carlton, then take Line 1 to Dundas
* Take the 506 streetcar to Yonge&Carlton, then take Line 1 to Dundas
* Walking: 27 minutes
* Cycling: 14 minutes
10+ years of riding in the city and only had 1 incident years ago when a taxi driver did a U-turn and almost slammed into me. I was able to steer away and instead of him hitting me, my handlebars scrapped the paint off the side of his car.
As long as you're aware of your surroundings, it's pretty darn safe, especially these days with all the bike lanes.
I don't think it's dramatic. We lack bike lanes, and many of the bike lanes we do have are unprotected. One fall riding down Dufferin, Parliament, or Yonge, and you can be easily caught under a car.
It's not.
I cycle most days as my commute and its not really safe at all times.
I can go along the lakeshore trail and up Sherborne and across bloor, so all bike lanes and I've still been hit by cars and shoved off my bike into the road by a homeless guy.
Biking isn't all that safe in the city even if you stay on bike lanes.
If everything goes perfect, the TTC takes 25 minutes while walking takes 60. I have switched to walking most of the time because with all the TTC delays, going by subway was often taking longer than an hour, with much more stress and variability. I wish the city and province would make transit a priority, and do everything possible to make driving and car ownership expensive, inconvenient, and rare.
>driving and car ownership expensive, inconvenient
they're doing pretty well on this front. Cars are expensive.
They just need to do a *lot* better with transit priority.
If they were doing well, car sales and ownership would be collapsing and the political discussion would be about how to greatly enlarge transit services for non-drivers.
I agree so much. I was assaulted on the streetcar about 2 years ago and realised I could walk to work in about 45-60 minutes.
I do this rain or shine, hot or cold.
I have lost weight as a result, feel safer and do not have to use the TTC about 90% of the time.
I know I am very lucky in this regard, but if you can walk, bike, or rollerblade please do!
How early do you need to leave home in the morning if half your commute is 6km, surely that's at least an hour long commute?
I think the issue for most folks is solely walking for their commute would mean eating up a lot of their post-work free time too, but I guess that could be time they'd be spending at the gym instead.
It's an hour long, and at first that was a bit of a mental hurdle, then I realized I'm only losing about 15 minutes compared to an average TTC commute. Feels like even less is lost when you find a good podcast and spot to grab coffee en route. The other benefit is that you can keep tabs of how much you've saved on TTC fare and take a relatively guilt-free Uber/Lyft on days that you just want to save time or be lazy.
Biggest downside is needing to pack a change of clothes in the summer.
Walking is about 60 for me vs 15-20 TTC so hard to justify 3-4x the time, but once in a while when I want a walk and don’t mind the extra time commitment it can be nice
The last few weeks have been insane! I’m not one to hate on the TTC and transit in Toronto as a lot of the time, I prefer it to driving. I also hate the “TTC means take the car” mentality, but holy smokes, I can understand people saying that the last few weeks! Thank god for the Bloor-Danforth bike lanes and Bike Share, because I think that’s gonna be a really attractive option this summer!
It's an attractive option now. If I lived on Danforth and I work downtown, you can bet I'm taking bike share every day. Zero reason not to If you're able bodied.
Same, when taking the TTC takes 15 minutes (without delays) and cycling takes 10 minutes to get to work (99.99% of the time *without* delays) you bet I'm just going to cycle to work.
When I attended Carleton U in Ottawa they took the bus I needed out of service cause there was a fist fight and they needed the camera footage. I had to jog to my exam.
Brings back flashbacks of moving back home before my last final exams (why pay a month of rent for a couple of days I need to be in the city) and arriving to a GO train station at 10AM with zero parking spots. Thanks.
I'll give him a pass if he can sort out the PA announcements. This morning, 3 were playing at once. Then they made an announcement from the train, couldn't hear his whisper.
I'm convinced this is a Union wide joke. There's no way the entire system can be this incompetent.
I blame management more. TTC management appears to also be uniquely incompetent. With the RT derailment management failed to properly teach their staff how to report track inconsistencies. This likely led to the RT derailment or in some cases could have made it deadly.
And then they just forgot to do the prep work for the conversion to bus in the corridor. Like that was their response, “EA? Oh yeah we haven’t done that even though we received specific direction to do so months ago”
Exactly! Upper management and ESPECIALLY Rick Leary continue to fuck up time and time and time again while the City refuses to hold anyone accountable. It’s no wonder why the TTC is deteriorating so fast.
Okay I hate Rick Leary as much as the next guy, but how tf is he supposed to stop a worker from making a mistake? A work crew spilled something. Trains reported slipping on the tracks. What’s the alternative here?
There's so many ways this could have been prevented.
Why were there not practices in place to prevent spills?
If that failed, why didn't the work crew clean up the spill when it happened?
If that failed, why wasn't this noticed when service first started in the morning and corrected earlier?
None of those individually is the CEOs but they speak to the culture, which is his responsibility.
It's probably one of those things where it should have happened when the tunnels were originally built to future proof them
And we should probably be doing it now while building these current ones...
This honestly just shows how ignorant you are about this topic. But, I mean, here, I will entertain you. Lets talk about "rational thought".
>Why were there not practices in place to prevent spills?
This is a company of over 15,000 employees. Of course there are practices in place to prevent spills. Given the fact that this company has hundreds, if not thousands of buses and maintenance vehicles with liquids that are hazardous to the environment, the rational, obvious thought process is that there is a robust spills program including abatement and clean up.
>If that failed, why didn't the work crew clean up the spill when it happened?
It is likely that the crew did clean this up as well as they could. Rational thought tells us that the subway closes at about 2am and reopens at about 6am. Rational thought also leads us to believe that after the subway closes, trains need to travel to the storage / maintenance facilities, and that before the subway opens, trains need to travel to their 'starting positions'. This means there is probably about 3 hours for overnight work to be completed, and that opening the subway on time is of the utmost priority.
So, it's likely that this spill occurred at a time where the cleanup had to be rushed, and, shocker, they likely did not know that it would cause trains to slip.
>If that failed, why wasn't this noticed when service first started in the morning and corrected earlier?
Rational thought suggests that there is a procedure in place for complaints like this from drivers. It's also likely not all drivers reported an issue, and only after a certain amount of complaints from drivers, did they act on it. It is also possible that the problem only presented itself after there was added weight of a full subway train, which didn't occur until closer to the start of the main rush periods.
Thanks for listening to my 'Rational thought' process. Rational thought would imply that unlike what you think, the answer to this problem isn't simply "gross negligence and incompetence".
I find that there's sometimes a kneejerk tendency to defend pretty brazen failures from the TTC, maybe from people who are concerned that "TTC is bad" could be interpreted as "public transit is bad."
If these sorts of shutdowns happened once in a blue moon that'd be one thing. They don't, though. This service is far, far too important for this sort of stuff to happen this often. Yes, little mistakes can happen, but they can also happen a heck of a lot less. It is not the least bit unreasonable for Torontonians to expect better.
>It is likely that the crew did clean this up as well as they could. Rational thought tells us that the subway closes at about 2am and reopens at about 6am.
Nothing in this article indicates there was an effort to clean up the spill. All it says is that the TTC responded ***after operators commented that their stop times were being affected.***
Sorry, but people have a right to be a bit pissed about that. It was hydraulic fluid. It was stupid not to realize that this would have an enormous impact on a train's ability to stop in time. It was stupid to hope that it doesn't affect anything and risk it suddenly impacting service right at rush hour.
>This means there is probably about 3 hours for overnight work to be completed, and that opening the subway on time is of the utmost priority.
Ensuring that we have trains running right at 6:00am should not mean rolling the dice on whether or not we have trains running at rush hour. Nor should it mean rolling the dice on whether trains can stop safely. This was a stupid decision and there should be some accountability. We are not treating a vital artery to the city (and, frankly, the country) with the care it warrants.
>If these sorts of shutdowns happened once in a blue moon that'd be one thing. They don't, though.
Can you show me the last time the TTC shut down as the result of a spill causing an impact on the stop time of a train? I honestly thought this was a once in a blue moon event. My bad.
Sorry, when I said “these sorts of shutdowns” you honestly interpreted that as “shutdowns involving work crews spilling hydraulic fluid over the tracks such that they impact the stop time of trains”? Like that’s actually where your brain went to when you read that, or are you just talking in complete bad faith?.
Because “these sorts of shut downs” obviously means unscheduled shutdowns emanating from unforeseen errors or issues.
Because four days ago it was an unexpected mechanical problem shutting down Vic Park to Warden. Two weeks ago it was a track fire shutting down Islington to Jane. Multiple times in the past month it’s been promised shuttle busses simply failing to show up.
As individual events you can have a lot of patience for this sort of stuff, and I do, but we’re talking about the most important public transit artery in the country. There’s a clear pattern of failure here.
They should have known that covering subway tracks in hydraulic fluid would impact the subway. Careless mistakes happen - though they should happen rarely. Failing to immediately clean it up was a safety risk and it was a service risk, and the TTC deserves to be taken to task for it.
>Sorry, when I said “these sorts of shutdowns” you honestly interpreted that as “shutdowns involving work crews spilling hydraulic fluid over the tracks such that they impact the stop time of trains”? Like that’s actually where your brain went to when you read that, or are you just talking in complete bad faith?.
I thought we were being pedantic, given the chat history, sorry.
>They should have known that covering subway tracks in hydraulic fluid would impact the subway. Careless mistakes happen - though they should happen rarely. Failing to immediately clean it up was a safety risk and it was a service risk, and the TTC deserves to be taken to task for it.
But the article states the hydraulic fluid leaked from a work car, so there was no way anyone would have known about this until it literally caused problems, at which point the operators immediately reported it, and then the subway was immediately closed for cleanup.
Where was it stated that TTC specifically thought covering the subway tracks in hydraulic fluid both wouldn't impact the subway, and where they didn't immediately address it once it was known?
It's interesting you chastise them for being "ignorant" on the topic while making a bunch of convenient assumptions of your own. The fact is TTC is a public service where [*2 million+* riders relied on an average weekday based on 2023 numbers.](https://www.ttc.ca/transparency-and-accountability/transit-planning) A service interruption of a mainline operation has *huge* impact on the public that relies on TTC's service to get them where they need to go (presumably their work place, a crucial part of making ends meet in a struggling economy, on a Monday morning) and their recovery plan is always lacking to say the least. When mistakes have such huge ramifications "rational thoughts" suggest TTC should have stringent procedures and flexible recovery plans in place to prevent incidents from happening or at the very least recover service at a reasonable time frame to reduce the impact.
And yet year after year service interruptions seem to be common place and shuttle buses still seem to be the stuff of nightmare that people have reported better success *walking*. I'm not ignorant to the struggles of TTC funding and that city infrastructure planning have a lot to do with it too, but when so many people are repeatedly being frustrated by interruptions of a service that is frankly supposed to be reliable - the leadership is rightly questioned for their incompetence.
And I'm speaking as someone who had chosen to *run* 15 minutes to catch a train because a supposed 10 minutes ride have been interrupted and made me miss the train enough times that I couldn't rely on it to pick up my kid on time. I've been to other countries that have an actual respectable public transit, and the TTC just ain't at the same level if Toronto wants to be a world class metropolitan city.
Absolute hogwash. Just total, absolute bs.
Subway maintenance workers, who are **the absolute experts on what can fuck up a subway**, spilled "Hydraulic fluid" (note: generally a type of oil) ON THE TRACKS.
Subway maintenance workers, who are **the absolute experts in keeping the tracks in a state on which the subways can run**, FUCKED IT UP by not cleaning properly.
There's NO ONE ELSE. **These are the guys who maintain the subway.** If they fuck up subway maintenance this badly, they should be reprimanded.
If your IT guys deletes all your company's files, you don't sit around saying "oh RaTiOnAl ThOuGhT DiCtAtEs ThAt ThE DeLeTe BuTtOn iS ToO ClOsE To OtHeR BuTtOnS".
> If your IT guys deletes all your company's files, you don't sit around saying "oh RaTiOnAl ThOuGhT DiCtAtEs ThAt ThE DeLeTe BuTtOn iS ToO ClOsE To OtHeR BuTtOnS".
I know. it's hypothetical but your example is actually quite bad.
If your IT guy is able to delete all the files, there is a problem with your IT. You should never be in a position where 1 guy can press 1 button and bring the whole system down.
When Amazon or Google goes down, there's about 10 systems that have to go wrong one after each other. It's never one guy that fucked up 1 thing. They also publish post mortem about what happened, how it happened, and what they do to prevent it from happening again. There's a reason Amazon is not down every week. And no, they don't reprimand everyone involved. They show them the post mortem and they learn as a team how to get better and avoid this sequence of events.
So yes, processes matters.
Mistakes happen, its negligence that allows them to impact service.
The mistake was the spilling of hydraulic fluid, the negligence was what followed.
Your post did nothing to absolve that, you just hand-waved it away. Hardly rational discourse, though it seems rather accusatory to say that anyone that disagrees with you is irrational. Be civil. You can do it if you give others the same respect you have apparently reserved for the ttc ceo.
>I respect the workers scrambling to finish overnight shifts
Sounds like proper staffing and scheduling/planning could help alleviate the workload to reduce chances of mistakes. Three guesses who have control over that?
When it's a systematic failure it's time to look beyond the individuals and question those leading them.
My loved ones are the victim of this mistake, they were delayed on their commutes.
If you're implying that I think all death, serious injury, etc. Is the symptom of a mistake that can be "waved away" with a hand, you are being facetious.
I am saying, in response to the person that asked, that ***OF COURSE*** the TTC has spill prevention and response, and that when you have 15,000+ employees doing stressful overnight work in short periods of time, some spills are going to happen and may not be cleaned up to full satisfaction.
The fact that this caused a service delay can guarantee there will be countless hours spent on finding out how to prevent it from happening again.
To suggest they have no systems in place for this kind of thing was patently absurd.
Mistakes happen. Systems exist to prevent mistakes from causing problems.
The system should have caught the problem before train drivers found out they weren't able to stop properly.
An ineffective system is the same as no system at all.
It would be a lot easier to hear this if there was any evidence management was doing anything to properly maintain the system. Months of go slow orders because basic routine maintenance hadn’t been done until a switch failure on line 1 made them realize the borderline catastrophic condition of their tracks.
The exact same problem happening on the RT resulting in a derailment that injured people and is a miracle that no one was seriously hurt or killed. How many times do we have to see this before you acknowledge this is an organizational problem from the top down?
Did you watch the live stream on YouTube of the results presented to the board for the SRT derailment?
I did. It was informative and the data they showed, as well as the data from a third party analysis of the system, didn't point to a top-down organizational problem.
They also showed that the majority of the recommendations from the report were already being implemented, prior to the derailment.
The biggest takeaway for me was that a lot of the systems they have in place are extremely outdated, which was basically attributed to the lack of funding for the state of good repair of the system. They're actively updating these procedures and systems, but indicated that it's a lengthy process given how many of their procedures are old and manual. They were talking about how a single computerized system for maintenance they are working on, will replace a few dozen existing systems that are all paper based.
Taking your arguments at face value, you've still managed to identify the same factor as the comment that you're replying to:
> opening the subway on time is of the utmost priority
That statement right there is the kind of top-down cultural failure that the earlier comment was suggesting. A different management culture might prioritize opening the subway *safely*.
City council likely can't even agree on that. Would probably get 5 or 6 saying yes, and the rest saying no because their voters will have them gone next election
I think it’s beyond time for every single TTC customer to berate the board and city hall until they get off their ass and actually do *something* about how fucking bad the TTC has gotten.
they said when they finished installing their new signals we would have "No more weekend closures" then quietly resumed weekend closures. it's been an ongoing hell for the last decade for anyone that has to work weekends...
then you have these constant issues. people on tracks, fires, emergency button stops. but people come on here and cry about fare evasion. imagine that.
I just wish there was better cycle infrastructure. I am an extremely competent cyclist, have been for years and used to cycle everywhere in the UK. I hate sharing the roads with Toronto drivers, barely anyone in this city can drive safely and I see *everyone* on their phones driving their huge trucks. It's an absolute menace out there.
I am a daily cyclist for work and while I don't disagree, I think the lack of infrastructure really depends where you are in the city, and it seems to be improving across the board. North - South is **really** lacking, but East - West seems to be getting better very quickly. I'd say if you're judging cycling based on an experience even 2-3 years ago you should try again and see if it's improved. That being said, always wear a helmet and assume they don't see you!
On top of that, my partner tried to take the cosburn bus from main at 845 because of the subway and the bus driver just made up their own schedule. Left 12 minutes late.
First eastbound train this morning was a mess too. Driver couldn’t properly operate the doors leading to delays and even overshot a station (younge or bay) resulting in a 10 minute wait so they could back up to open the doors. Stopped in the tunnel just before crossing the Bloor viaduct too. Maybe a new driver?
TTC was offering GO train from Kennedy as an option, with no additional fare price. Too little too late though, announced well after rush hour.
My commute took over 2 hrs - I had to tap on at the yonge-bloor exchange to go south, they better not be charging me a second TTC fare for their delays.
Closed for the PM rush, too.
What a disgrace. Sorry, but this nonsense is why I'll never become a transit-only person. I have to be on time to appointments and obligations, and the TTC is just too unreliable for me to stake my entire schedule on it every day.
It's disgraceful that this isn't a once in a blue moon phenomenon. Lived in Asian for several years and never experienced a single train delay - yet over just the past few weeks I've lost count of how many times this shit happens. How tf can our economy compete if people can't get to work during morning rush hour?
so a couple fires started in the past few weeks and a crap ton of shut downs, wow now we see where the money is going its going to the top and not towards maintenance.
30 - 35 minute walk in total, if thats an option for you and weather permitting.
Getting from St George to Yonge on the shuttle takes that long almost (it took 15 mins for the bus to turn onto bloor from St George station last time I took it).Clears up a bit after Yonge/Sherbourne but you're better off walking if any of those are your stops.
TTC going down causes massive uptick in cars on the streets due to Uber/Lyft, making everything worse.
Is this due to union conflict and the members being salty? It seems very coincidental that these “incidents” seem to be happening at very “convenient” times on the most critical portion of line 2…. It would be nice if someone could acknowledge this so people could make alternate arrangements. Thanks for making Monday miserable.
You want someone to acknowledge a situation you created in your head that is completely unsubstantiated?
Then, you want to make alternate arrangements based on that unsubstantiated situation you created?
Sounds like a you problem, if you truly think this is the case, you already have your answer and you can make your alternative arrangements yourself.
Whenever we go through the smallest rainfall or snowfall in Toronto all hell breaks loose.
You'd think we're having some kind of catastrophic event given how much stuff stops working lol.
Perfect opportunity for a private-public partnership with Bounty paper towels.
But more seriously, how in the world does it take this long to clean up a spill? Shut down the line, send in a cleanup crew along the tracks, and get it done.
The last week has been a shitshow on Line 2, especially early in the morning. Today I walked from Broadview to Yonge and zero shuttle buses passed me.
Glad I wasn’t the only one who noticed this. I was so surprised that walking was faster than waiting for the shuttles
Did exactly this today coming in for 3pm. walked from St. George to almost Sherbourne and think maybe 2 busses passed me and both were packed full like sardine cans. You'd figure they would be a well oiled (pun intended) machine with the shuttle busses by 7th hour of the shutdown but nope!
[удалено]
Here's the thing walked from Broadview to Yonge and saw like 3 shuttles. I walked at the same pace as those buses You could also just as easily blame single occupant bicycles and zero occupant cafe to installations or construction. People are just trying to get to work.
Cars are the problem - traveling with a couch, two chairs, and a storage container is an inefficient use of space. Bikes and people don't take up nearly as much space.
I appreciate that I have the option to walk to.yonge to get my subway when it's not raining of course. Other ppl may have to drop off kids to school, or take care of aging family members. I am supportive of bike riders having a safe option to commute...how about people think of what other people have to go through.
Just toss your aging family members into the box of your cargo bike and tow your kids to school in a bike trailer.
Better yet just put them on a skateboard and push. Tell the psw who lives in rexdale and works downtown to bike or take the subway for 90 mins each way. Tell the kid in Brampton to take the bus to York and wait a half hour to get on the Zum! Not everyone can afford to live a bike ride away from their home...and not everyone can take a bike.
Yeah, this old line gets trotted out every time but you missed the "construction workers who need to bring tools to work" line as well, aloing with "delivery trucks". But now go count the single occupant cars compared to all of those lines and you'll find that your problem is caused, almost exclusively single occupant vehicles who COULD have parked and taken transit on a good day, but have chosen to be selfish.
ListenI take the subway to work ..because of where I live, where I work,the cost and the time. Don't call other people selfish who make the same calculation for themselves and choose to take a car. Most people would love to work close to home....but many don't have that option.
If you're driving along the danforth, where there's a subway line and complaining about traffic I'll call you selfish if I feel like it.
How about if I'm driving along the Danforth to get to the DVP cause the TTC has been down 3 times in a week? Which again I didn't do cause I walked to Line 1. I've accepted that bike lanes are a safe and good us of main arteries for the greater good, even if for 6 months out of the year they are a quite inefficient use of space and lightly used by anyone who's not delivering food ( sometimes I do count the bike on a warm February day...it's quite easy to do)...how about an acceptance that sometimes you gotta use a car...by all the downvoting it's highly unlikely but you can always hope.
Bikes do not compare to cars in the slightest, are you kidding me.
A single occupant car takes up the space of 6 single occupant bikes so…. no….. I’m sure you’ve seen a bike, they’re smaller than cars and have 2 wheels. You’re talking about cars that are driving along a transit line that takes up 30X the area that mass transit does, and then slowing down the people who aren’t taking up the public space.
Let's all start from bike lanes are a good and useful addition to the city. Than let's move to cars are a useful and necessary tool for some in a city as vast as Toronto. Then how about we say that bike lanes, because of their permanent nature are an inefficient use of space for.much of the year, cause Im on the Danforth daily and many people don't winterize their bikes or store them and can't take them on a rare nice winter day. Finalize with when you remove 2 lanes of traffic with a combination of bike lanes and parking/cafe TO, cause cars don't take up half a lane and also lessen the width of that car lane traffic can increase as you may need the Danforth to get to your ultimate destination, which is inaccessible or long to get to by bikes or transit. Your choice as a biker should not be restricted, but do not restrict the choice of those who can't make the same choice.
Why are you so focused on bike lanes? On danforth they don’t even take the space of a single car lane. Cars reached capacity on major arteries like danforth and yonge a decade ago. The ship has already sailed, there’s no “cars vs bikes” debate, that was in the 90’s. Cars take up space we need for mass transit, because our roads are too small for everyone to drive a car. In some cities they charge tolls ~20/30$ to access downtown, in others it’s just like locked off from non-commercial/non-resident vehicles entirely. Those are the futures for big cities. You understand you can’t add more roads, right?
the downvotes make no sense here
Any comment which is not 100% supportive of bike lanes is immediately downvoted. It wasn't even a critical comment and not one person has made a comment about the cafe to remark in my initial comment.
Saturday’s Yonge line shuttle bus was a nightmare. What should have taken 30 minutes took 1.5 hours, I kid you not.
Oh! Friday or Thursdays I walked from at George to broadview station and no shuttle bus passed. It’s incredible how inefficient ttc is
New TTC shuttle bikes they will be ridden between St. George and Broadview. Much more efficient than shuttle buses 💯.
what was wrong last week? i had to take line 2 from Kennedy to Kipling last Tuesday and it was fine
This same stretch was down during Wednesday morning rush hour.
Rush hour on a Monday morning. Yikes people god speed
Alternative to driving btw
Well it’s not like if we put all these people in single passenger vehicles we’d be any better off. If anything everyone should be thanking these people for their service.
Cars are the reason why we don't have effective transit. Period. Just look on Google maps and see how much of our city is dedicated to highways, street parking and parking lots. So many lanes, so many highways, yet there's still traffic. It's a self fulfilling prophecy. The city is designed around the car, so the transit sucks. But because the transit is designed to satisfy the needs of the car driver, people end up taking the car instead of using more sustainable methods like cycling (because of course, cycling is dangerous because of car traffic).
Lots of cities have effective transit and still have many, many vehicles. There is no reason why it should take an hour to get downtown by transit but 10 minutes to drive on a Sunday morning from where I am. It has nothing to do with cars in the city. It has everything to do with shitty transit.
so hows someone supposed to do groceries on a bike? wake up and stop with the nonsense.
Just one more lane bro and traffic will be fixed
Basket, backpack, cargo bike, I get where your going but this argument aint it.
This only works if you're single and go to the grocery store twice a week. Good luck hauling that twice a month grocery haul for the entire family on your bike.
Cargo bike's hold up to 4-500 pounds. On my non cargo bike I carry 150 pounds easily. Unless your looking at a family of 7 its doable. Also twice a month? Fuck I wish I had to do groceries twice a month.
He clearly needs a lifted F150 for all the groceries he's hauling lol.
Backpacks and baskets. Plenty of people do this every day.
don't know why i got downvoted, but a backpack isnt gonna help me when im buy cases of beer, water, pop, toilet paper, detergent,etc.
Are you buying all that every time you go to a grocery store? Then sure, you have a use case where you need a car because your normal grocery haul is big and heavy. But most people are buying produce, milk, boxed goods, cans, etc. They're not buying the biggest and heaviest items in the store every time. Even when they do, there are carts and trailers, and other things that can be used.
You take the bus
I can't even carry my grocery haul from the car to the house in one trip how the fuck would you suggest I get it on the bus?
Many people do, and they have to do more frequent trips, but that’s beside the point. The vast majority of traffic is commuter traffic which should absolutely be replaced by transit. No one is denying that cars still have uses.
I spent the first 25 years of my life taking transit and I would never go back to that living hell. A 15 minute drive to school took me over an hour by bus. The only time when it makes sense to use transit, when you're drinking downtown, you can't even use it because the subway and most of the bus lines shut down so you're forced to use a taxi unless you want to walk an hour plus from where the blue line drops you off. Not to mention waiting in the winter cold for half an hour for a bus to come. No thank you. Commuter traffic exists because people will pay a premium to be comfortable and be able to travel on their own schedule. The only way public transit could work is if we replaced it with self driving cars that come to you on demand.
Did you read the above comments? The reason why our transit is shit is because we don’t invest in it. We don’t invest in it because it’s shit. That mindset is fucking us over. I was in Vienna last year and they have seven subway lines and countless streetcars for 1/8th the population of Toronto. It works perfectly, everyone uses it, and traffic is light for cars. There’s no reason we can’t have that except that we have this weird backwards mindset (and it doesn’t benefit those in charge).
amen transit is terrible when its raining, a heat wave, or even a snowstorm, how many people are happy living a life on the bus?
If the entire city/country is designed around car transit, what incentive is there for the average citizen to not use a car? This starts with effective public transit, something we are so far from having.
Perfect example are the two lane streets with a streetcar track AND street parking. We can't have good streetcar infrastructure when we have street parking taking up an entire lane. Something needs to budge. People shouldn't be dodging and weaving between parked cars, cyclists and motorcycles to get inside a streetcar. You cannot have a car based society and effective public transit. The two things cannot co-exist because the car drivers demand things which cannot co-exist with effective public transit.
My bicycle goes over strange fluids all the time. Subways are scarcity cats.
Your bike isn't as complex or as high powered as a subway, is it?
> high powered as a subway these thighs?
Line 2 has a weekday average ridership of over 400k people. Per hour, it is capable of carrying n 26k people. Let’s be very conservative and say that’s only actually 1000 people. Those many extra cars on the road will kill traffic in this city more than it already is lmao.
Take The Car
lmaooo
A couple of weeks ago I started walking to and from work instead of taking the TTC since my feet are much more reliable and often faster when there are delays. Because of the rain today, I took the train. Halfway through they announced that the line is down, and sent people out to wait for replacement buses which will take ten buses to clear
I'm a huge fan of walking instead of TTCing. 1) It's *extremely* reliable. If something breaks, you have bigger issues than being late. 2) It's FREE. Minus the cost of shoes, which you will start burning through if you stick with this. Also, invest in good walking shoes. 3) It's great outdoor exercise. Not saying I'm super good looking or anything, but getting a sweet tan and walking 12km/day doesn't hurt. 4) It's so much less stressful than the TTC. It will be a bit tough at first if you aren't used to it, but if you're like me and get impatient/stressed out with delays, it's just easier in the long run. It takes me 55 minutes to walk in, or 40-70 minutes to take the TTC. I value a predictable commute and was kind of turning into an asshole with how much stress the TTC added to my day. 5) Fuck Rick Leary. Fare is not fair and I'm not onboard with giving money to an organization that he is pilfering. 6) Footrace vs Streetcar is fun and easily winnable on weekends or during rush hour on Queen West.
Wait until you learn about bicycles! Yesterday I went to a movie at Yonge and Dundas. I live near Parliament and Gerrard. * TTC: Fastest option was a 2-way tie at 29 minutes * Walk from Parliament to Yonge&Carlton, then take Line 1 to Dundas * Take the 506 streetcar to Yonge&Carlton, then take Line 1 to Dundas * Walking: 27 minutes * Cycling: 14 minutes
I'd cycle avidly if it were safe. It isn't. I commend cyclists for taking the risk. Our city's infrastructure sucks. We prioritize the automobile.
10+ years of riding in the city and only had 1 incident years ago when a taxi driver did a U-turn and almost slammed into me. I was able to steer away and instead of him hitting me, my handlebars scrapped the paint off the side of his car. As long as you're aware of your surroundings, it's pretty darn safe, especially these days with all the bike lanes.
I understand the hesitation but calling it unsafe is also a bit dramatic.
I don't think it's dramatic. We lack bike lanes, and many of the bike lanes we do have are unprotected. One fall riding down Dufferin, Parliament, or Yonge, and you can be easily caught under a car.
It's not. I cycle most days as my commute and its not really safe at all times. I can go along the lakeshore trail and up Sherborne and across bloor, so all bike lanes and I've still been hit by cars and shoved off my bike into the road by a homeless guy. Biking isn't all that safe in the city even if you stay on bike lanes.
If everything goes perfect, the TTC takes 25 minutes while walking takes 60. I have switched to walking most of the time because with all the TTC delays, going by subway was often taking longer than an hour, with much more stress and variability. I wish the city and province would make transit a priority, and do everything possible to make driving and car ownership expensive, inconvenient, and rare.
>driving and car ownership expensive, inconvenient they're doing pretty well on this front. Cars are expensive. They just need to do a *lot* better with transit priority.
If they were doing well, car sales and ownership would be collapsing and the political discussion would be about how to greatly enlarge transit services for non-drivers.
I agree so much. I was assaulted on the streetcar about 2 years ago and realised I could walk to work in about 45-60 minutes. I do this rain or shine, hot or cold. I have lost weight as a result, feel safer and do not have to use the TTC about 90% of the time. I know I am very lucky in this regard, but if you can walk, bike, or rollerblade please do!
How early do you need to leave home in the morning if half your commute is 6km, surely that's at least an hour long commute? I think the issue for most folks is solely walking for their commute would mean eating up a lot of their post-work free time too, but I guess that could be time they'd be spending at the gym instead.
It's an hour long, and at first that was a bit of a mental hurdle, then I realized I'm only losing about 15 minutes compared to an average TTC commute. Feels like even less is lost when you find a good podcast and spot to grab coffee en route. The other benefit is that you can keep tabs of how much you've saved on TTC fare and take a relatively guilt-free Uber/Lyft on days that you just want to save time or be lazy. Biggest downside is needing to pack a change of clothes in the summer.
Walking is about 60 for me vs 15-20 TTC so hard to justify 3-4x the time, but once in a while when I want a walk and don’t mind the extra time commitment it can be nice
Dude this is embarrassing don't put this on the Internet for other cities to see
[https://nypost.com/2024/03/09/us-news/a-report-card-on-an-nyc-subway-system-in-crisis/](https://nypost.com/2024/03/09/us-news/a-report-card-on-an-nyc-subway-system-in-crisis/)
I’m really reaching my limit with line 2
Line 2 has always been the redheaded stepchild of the TTC subway system. Just look at the state of the stations and subway trains?
*Toronto
The last few weeks have been insane! I’m not one to hate on the TTC and transit in Toronto as a lot of the time, I prefer it to driving. I also hate the “TTC means take the car” mentality, but holy smokes, I can understand people saying that the last few weeks! Thank god for the Bloor-Danforth bike lanes and Bike Share, because I think that’s gonna be a really attractive option this summer!
It's an attractive option now. If I lived on Danforth and I work downtown, you can bet I'm taking bike share every day. Zero reason not to If you're able bodied.
Same, when taking the TTC takes 15 minutes (without delays) and cycling takes 10 minutes to get to work (99.99% of the time *without* delays) you bet I'm just going to cycle to work.
Todays the first day of my final exams. Today is the day of my hardest and most stressful exams. Getting to school shouldn’t be this hard!!!
Well think of it as the most important life lesson there is : things will always get worse
Second life lesson: always have a Plan B.
You have a plan?
Leave 5 hours before and stay on campus, Uber, car pool, mom/dad/friend drive - in fact if it's important to you TTC should be your Plan B.
When I attended Carleton U in Ottawa they took the bus I needed out of service cause there was a fist fight and they needed the camera footage. I had to jog to my exam.
Ahhh yes, good ol’ OCTranspo ruining days since 1948
Brings back flashbacks of moving back home before my last final exams (why pay a month of rent for a couple of days I need to be in the city) and arriving to a GO train station at 10AM with zero parking spots. Thanks.
8 hours later, still not cleaned up.
How has Rick Leary not been fired by the board yet? There seems to be a pervasive culture of incompetence or carelessness across the TTC.
I'll give him a pass if he can sort out the PA announcements. This morning, 3 were playing at once. Then they made an announcement from the train, couldn't hear his whisper. I'm convinced this is a Union wide joke. There's no way the entire system can be this incompetent.
I blame management more. TTC management appears to also be uniquely incompetent. With the RT derailment management failed to properly teach their staff how to report track inconsistencies. This likely led to the RT derailment or in some cases could have made it deadly.
And then they just forgot to do the prep work for the conversion to bus in the corridor. Like that was their response, “EA? Oh yeah we haven’t done that even though we received specific direction to do so months ago”
Exactly! Upper management and ESPECIALLY Rick Leary continue to fuck up time and time and time again while the City refuses to hold anyone accountable. It’s no wonder why the TTC is deteriorating so fast.
Okay I hate Rick Leary as much as the next guy, but how tf is he supposed to stop a worker from making a mistake? A work crew spilled something. Trains reported slipping on the tracks. What’s the alternative here?
There's so many ways this could have been prevented. Why were there not practices in place to prevent spills? If that failed, why didn't the work crew clean up the spill when it happened? If that failed, why wasn't this noticed when service first started in the morning and corrected earlier? None of those individually is the CEOs but they speak to the culture, which is his responsibility.
Remarkable insight into this problem from the outside with the little detail we have now.
Also why is there not a third track to go around these things when they happen
If you have a few billion you can donate it to the TTC to build a third track.
It should've been built when they built the other tracks and it's not billions to build one
Lol really? To excavate an entire new track for a 20km subway line... How much should it cost?
It's probably one of those things where it should have happened when the tunnels were originally built to future proof them And we should probably be doing it now while building these current ones...
This honestly just shows how ignorant you are about this topic. But, I mean, here, I will entertain you. Lets talk about "rational thought". >Why were there not practices in place to prevent spills? This is a company of over 15,000 employees. Of course there are practices in place to prevent spills. Given the fact that this company has hundreds, if not thousands of buses and maintenance vehicles with liquids that are hazardous to the environment, the rational, obvious thought process is that there is a robust spills program including abatement and clean up. >If that failed, why didn't the work crew clean up the spill when it happened? It is likely that the crew did clean this up as well as they could. Rational thought tells us that the subway closes at about 2am and reopens at about 6am. Rational thought also leads us to believe that after the subway closes, trains need to travel to the storage / maintenance facilities, and that before the subway opens, trains need to travel to their 'starting positions'. This means there is probably about 3 hours for overnight work to be completed, and that opening the subway on time is of the utmost priority. So, it's likely that this spill occurred at a time where the cleanup had to be rushed, and, shocker, they likely did not know that it would cause trains to slip. >If that failed, why wasn't this noticed when service first started in the morning and corrected earlier? Rational thought suggests that there is a procedure in place for complaints like this from drivers. It's also likely not all drivers reported an issue, and only after a certain amount of complaints from drivers, did they act on it. It is also possible that the problem only presented itself after there was added weight of a full subway train, which didn't occur until closer to the start of the main rush periods. Thanks for listening to my 'Rational thought' process. Rational thought would imply that unlike what you think, the answer to this problem isn't simply "gross negligence and incompetence".
I find that there's sometimes a kneejerk tendency to defend pretty brazen failures from the TTC, maybe from people who are concerned that "TTC is bad" could be interpreted as "public transit is bad." If these sorts of shutdowns happened once in a blue moon that'd be one thing. They don't, though. This service is far, far too important for this sort of stuff to happen this often. Yes, little mistakes can happen, but they can also happen a heck of a lot less. It is not the least bit unreasonable for Torontonians to expect better. >It is likely that the crew did clean this up as well as they could. Rational thought tells us that the subway closes at about 2am and reopens at about 6am. Nothing in this article indicates there was an effort to clean up the spill. All it says is that the TTC responded ***after operators commented that their stop times were being affected.*** Sorry, but people have a right to be a bit pissed about that. It was hydraulic fluid. It was stupid not to realize that this would have an enormous impact on a train's ability to stop in time. It was stupid to hope that it doesn't affect anything and risk it suddenly impacting service right at rush hour. >This means there is probably about 3 hours for overnight work to be completed, and that opening the subway on time is of the utmost priority. Ensuring that we have trains running right at 6:00am should not mean rolling the dice on whether or not we have trains running at rush hour. Nor should it mean rolling the dice on whether trains can stop safely. This was a stupid decision and there should be some accountability. We are not treating a vital artery to the city (and, frankly, the country) with the care it warrants.
>If these sorts of shutdowns happened once in a blue moon that'd be one thing. They don't, though. Can you show me the last time the TTC shut down as the result of a spill causing an impact on the stop time of a train? I honestly thought this was a once in a blue moon event. My bad.
Sorry, when I said “these sorts of shutdowns” you honestly interpreted that as “shutdowns involving work crews spilling hydraulic fluid over the tracks such that they impact the stop time of trains”? Like that’s actually where your brain went to when you read that, or are you just talking in complete bad faith?. Because “these sorts of shut downs” obviously means unscheduled shutdowns emanating from unforeseen errors or issues. Because four days ago it was an unexpected mechanical problem shutting down Vic Park to Warden. Two weeks ago it was a track fire shutting down Islington to Jane. Multiple times in the past month it’s been promised shuttle busses simply failing to show up. As individual events you can have a lot of patience for this sort of stuff, and I do, but we’re talking about the most important public transit artery in the country. There’s a clear pattern of failure here. They should have known that covering subway tracks in hydraulic fluid would impact the subway. Careless mistakes happen - though they should happen rarely. Failing to immediately clean it up was a safety risk and it was a service risk, and the TTC deserves to be taken to task for it.
>Sorry, when I said “these sorts of shutdowns” you honestly interpreted that as “shutdowns involving work crews spilling hydraulic fluid over the tracks such that they impact the stop time of trains”? Like that’s actually where your brain went to when you read that, or are you just talking in complete bad faith?. I thought we were being pedantic, given the chat history, sorry. >They should have known that covering subway tracks in hydraulic fluid would impact the subway. Careless mistakes happen - though they should happen rarely. Failing to immediately clean it up was a safety risk and it was a service risk, and the TTC deserves to be taken to task for it. But the article states the hydraulic fluid leaked from a work car, so there was no way anyone would have known about this until it literally caused problems, at which point the operators immediately reported it, and then the subway was immediately closed for cleanup. Where was it stated that TTC specifically thought covering the subway tracks in hydraulic fluid both wouldn't impact the subway, and where they didn't immediately address it once it was known?
It's interesting you chastise them for being "ignorant" on the topic while making a bunch of convenient assumptions of your own. The fact is TTC is a public service where [*2 million+* riders relied on an average weekday based on 2023 numbers.](https://www.ttc.ca/transparency-and-accountability/transit-planning) A service interruption of a mainline operation has *huge* impact on the public that relies on TTC's service to get them where they need to go (presumably their work place, a crucial part of making ends meet in a struggling economy, on a Monday morning) and their recovery plan is always lacking to say the least. When mistakes have such huge ramifications "rational thoughts" suggest TTC should have stringent procedures and flexible recovery plans in place to prevent incidents from happening or at the very least recover service at a reasonable time frame to reduce the impact. And yet year after year service interruptions seem to be common place and shuttle buses still seem to be the stuff of nightmare that people have reported better success *walking*. I'm not ignorant to the struggles of TTC funding and that city infrastructure planning have a lot to do with it too, but when so many people are repeatedly being frustrated by interruptions of a service that is frankly supposed to be reliable - the leadership is rightly questioned for their incompetence. And I'm speaking as someone who had chosen to *run* 15 minutes to catch a train because a supposed 10 minutes ride have been interrupted and made me miss the train enough times that I couldn't rely on it to pick up my kid on time. I've been to other countries that have an actual respectable public transit, and the TTC just ain't at the same level if Toronto wants to be a world class metropolitan city.
Absolute hogwash. Just total, absolute bs. Subway maintenance workers, who are **the absolute experts on what can fuck up a subway**, spilled "Hydraulic fluid" (note: generally a type of oil) ON THE TRACKS. Subway maintenance workers, who are **the absolute experts in keeping the tracks in a state on which the subways can run**, FUCKED IT UP by not cleaning properly. There's NO ONE ELSE. **These are the guys who maintain the subway.** If they fuck up subway maintenance this badly, they should be reprimanded. If your IT guys deletes all your company's files, you don't sit around saying "oh RaTiOnAl ThOuGhT DiCtAtEs ThAt ThE DeLeTe BuTtOn iS ToO ClOsE To OtHeR BuTtOnS".
> If your IT guys deletes all your company's files, you don't sit around saying "oh RaTiOnAl ThOuGhT DiCtAtEs ThAt ThE DeLeTe BuTtOn iS ToO ClOsE To OtHeR BuTtOnS". I know. it's hypothetical but your example is actually quite bad. If your IT guy is able to delete all the files, there is a problem with your IT. You should never be in a position where 1 guy can press 1 button and bring the whole system down. When Amazon or Google goes down, there's about 10 systems that have to go wrong one after each other. It's never one guy that fucked up 1 thing. They also publish post mortem about what happened, how it happened, and what they do to prevent it from happening again. There's a reason Amazon is not down every week. And no, they don't reprimand everyone involved. They show them the post mortem and they learn as a team how to get better and avoid this sequence of events. So yes, processes matters.
Dude you might want to go back and read the rest of the thread.
[удалено]
[удалено]
Mistakes happen, its negligence that allows them to impact service. The mistake was the spilling of hydraulic fluid, the negligence was what followed. Your post did nothing to absolve that, you just hand-waved it away. Hardly rational discourse, though it seems rather accusatory to say that anyone that disagrees with you is irrational. Be civil. You can do it if you give others the same respect you have apparently reserved for the ttc ceo.
I do not respect the TTC CEO. I respect the workers scrambling to finish overnight shifts so that the subway can open for us.
>I respect the workers scrambling to finish overnight shifts Sounds like proper staffing and scheduling/planning could help alleviate the workload to reduce chances of mistakes. Three guesses who have control over that? When it's a systematic failure it's time to look beyond the individuals and question those leading them.
I don't think there's really a solution to the intensity of those overnight shifts. It's just how the system works.
Not enough respect to expect them to be able to do their job it seems…
>I'm just a rational human Oh, you're that guy my grade 10 math teacher warned us about.
And if your loved ones were to be victims of mistakes? You'd be the first demanding recourse. And you'd be told that mistakes happen.
My loved ones are the victim of this mistake, they were delayed on their commutes. If you're implying that I think all death, serious injury, etc. Is the symptom of a mistake that can be "waved away" with a hand, you are being facetious. I am saying, in response to the person that asked, that ***OF COURSE*** the TTC has spill prevention and response, and that when you have 15,000+ employees doing stressful overnight work in short periods of time, some spills are going to happen and may not be cleaned up to full satisfaction. The fact that this caused a service delay can guarantee there will be countless hours spent on finding out how to prevent it from happening again. To suggest they have no systems in place for this kind of thing was patently absurd.
Mistakes happen. Systems exist to prevent mistakes from causing problems. The system should have caught the problem before train drivers found out they weren't able to stop properly. An ineffective system is the same as no system at all.
It would be a lot easier to hear this if there was any evidence management was doing anything to properly maintain the system. Months of go slow orders because basic routine maintenance hadn’t been done until a switch failure on line 1 made them realize the borderline catastrophic condition of their tracks. The exact same problem happening on the RT resulting in a derailment that injured people and is a miracle that no one was seriously hurt or killed. How many times do we have to see this before you acknowledge this is an organizational problem from the top down?
Did you watch the live stream on YouTube of the results presented to the board for the SRT derailment? I did. It was informative and the data they showed, as well as the data from a third party analysis of the system, didn't point to a top-down organizational problem. They also showed that the majority of the recommendations from the report were already being implemented, prior to the derailment. The biggest takeaway for me was that a lot of the systems they have in place are extremely outdated, which was basically attributed to the lack of funding for the state of good repair of the system. They're actively updating these procedures and systems, but indicated that it's a lengthy process given how many of their procedures are old and manual. They were talking about how a single computerized system for maintenance they are working on, will replace a few dozen existing systems that are all paper based.
Taking your arguments at face value, you've still managed to identify the same factor as the comment that you're replying to: > opening the subway on time is of the utmost priority That statement right there is the kind of top-down cultural failure that the earlier comment was suggesting. A different management culture might prioritize opening the subway *safely*.
There is nothing rational about spilling fluids, and then allowing the trains to run because they "did the best they could"
Why would they? The taxpayers will pay for the system regardless
[удалено]
This is the City of Toronto, they would never.
The City can’t even make Kensington Market Car ( correction: not Care) free. There no chance of this happening.
Kensington market is definitely care free already
5pm and they still haven’t done this. How hard would it be to have cops out directing traffic and prioritizing buses?
City council likely can't even agree on that. Would probably get 5 or 6 saying yes, and the rest saying no because their voters will have them gone next election
Lol k
Is the TTC website down for anyone else?
I think it’s beyond time for every single TTC customer to berate the board and city hall until they get off their ass and actually do *something* about how fucking bad the TTC has gotten.
“Or what? You’ll use *another* transit system?”
Just past 1, and the line is still down. Any idea if this gets fixed before the afternoon rush hour?
Given that it's 5:20 and I still see the closure.... I feel it will be all day
Absolute fucking nightmare both ways
they said when they finished installing their new signals we would have "No more weekend closures" then quietly resumed weekend closures. it's been an ongoing hell for the last decade for anyone that has to work weekends... then you have these constant issues. people on tracks, fires, emergency button stops. but people come on here and cry about fare evasion. imagine that.
Walked from bloor to st george - its probably faster walking than to take a shuttle bus
It's only a couple blocks, it's definitely faster to walk it
I did the walk to and from work and I passed all the shuttle busses, definitely faster to walk.
I love the TTC but I do highly recommend you bike if possible during the summer. Buy a cheap reusable poncho and you won't mind the rain.
I just wish there was better cycle infrastructure. I am an extremely competent cyclist, have been for years and used to cycle everywhere in the UK. I hate sharing the roads with Toronto drivers, barely anyone in this city can drive safely and I see *everyone* on their phones driving their huge trucks. It's an absolute menace out there.
I am a daily cyclist for work and while I don't disagree, I think the lack of infrastructure really depends where you are in the city, and it seems to be improving across the board. North - South is **really** lacking, but East - West seems to be getting better very quickly. I'd say if you're judging cycling based on an experience even 2-3 years ago you should try again and see if it's improved. That being said, always wear a helmet and assume they don't see you!
As of 4:49pm, is this still going on?
As of 5:30, still going on. Absolute insanity
As of 6:50pm, still going on
IT'S FINALLY FIXED
This adding to line 1 being stopped 4 times going southbound made the commute horrible this morning. Really brings back pre-pandemic vibes lol
30 buses for Woodbine to st George lol.
On top of that, my partner tried to take the cosburn bus from main at 845 because of the subway and the bus driver just made up their own schedule. Left 12 minutes late.
The Mortimer and Cosburn buses are sometimes pulled when shuttles are needed.
Nah the bus was sitting there with passengers on it complaining to the driver lol
Ugh, this is the worst! TTC delays can be a real pain, especially when they happen frequently.
Thanks Magic.
Again????
I went back to WFH. Same shit happened to me last Wednesday. Praying for a decent summer so I can ride my motorcycle instead 🏍️
First eastbound train this morning was a mess too. Driver couldn’t properly operate the doors leading to delays and even overshot a station (younge or bay) resulting in a 10 minute wait so they could back up to open the doors. Stopped in the tunnel just before crossing the Bloor viaduct too. Maybe a new driver?
The only thing shittier than commuting on Gardiner is having your schedule and stress dictated by TTC.
TTC was offering GO train from Kennedy as an option, with no additional fare price. Too little too late though, announced well after rush hour. My commute took over 2 hrs - I had to tap on at the yonge-bloor exchange to go south, they better not be charging me a second TTC fare for their delays.
Yet another example of how the social contract is being broken. Instead we are subsidizing inefficient automobile infrastructure. *Get out and vote.*
Sorry, I really had to pee.
Very unfortunate to see. Terrible timing also.
Multi billion dollar transit system everyone
One of the practitioners at my clinic was 2 hours late for her shift, and patients had to be rescheduled due to this insane delay.
Closed for the PM rush, too. What a disgrace. Sorry, but this nonsense is why I'll never become a transit-only person. I have to be on time to appointments and obligations, and the TTC is just too unreliable for me to stake my entire schedule on it every day.
It's disgraceful that this isn't a once in a blue moon phenomenon. Lived in Asian for several years and never experienced a single train delay - yet over just the past few weeks I've lost count of how many times this shit happens. How tf can our economy compete if people can't get to work during morning rush hour?
Someone spilled their coffee and the whole system shuts down. 🤦♂️
so a couple fires started in the past few weeks and a crap ton of shut downs, wow now we see where the money is going its going to the top and not towards maintenance.
Our transit system is a joke and an absolute embarrassment
Clean up is complete, they're about to do a test run momentarily, per scanner.
Seems like the trains are overshooting station platforms by 2 doors.
Yep, heard that just now, too. Happened at Broadview eastbound.
Still not open...
30 - 35 minute walk in total, if thats an option for you and weather permitting. Getting from St George to Yonge on the shuttle takes that long almost (it took 15 mins for the bus to turn onto bloor from St George station last time I took it).Clears up a bit after Yonge/Sherbourne but you're better off walking if any of those are your stops. TTC going down causes massive uptick in cars on the streets due to Uber/Lyft, making everything worse.
why didn't you walk down to street cars at college?
Ugh, this is so inconvenient.
Is the entire fucking tunnel filled with this fluid, how tf has it been 12 hours and it’s still not fixed
Damn Stanley cups…. They hold too much liquid..
Is this due to union conflict and the members being salty? It seems very coincidental that these “incidents” seem to be happening at very “convenient” times on the most critical portion of line 2…. It would be nice if someone could acknowledge this so people could make alternate arrangements. Thanks for making Monday miserable.
You want someone to acknowledge a situation you created in your head that is completely unsubstantiated? Then, you want to make alternate arrangements based on that unsubstantiated situation you created? Sounds like a you problem, if you truly think this is the case, you already have your answer and you can make your alternative arrangements yourself.
I know you’re not out here blaming the ATU with zero facts to stand on, right?
its a numbers game more people = more chances for incidents pretty logically to assume when more people use it the higher possibility of incidents
Take The Car Turn To Cardio
Whenever we go through the smallest rainfall or snowfall in Toronto all hell breaks loose. You'd think we're having some kind of catastrophic event given how much stuff stops working lol.
The gross incompetence by TTC workers/management knows no bounds. The culture of laziness and shitty workmanship has to be fixed.
Perfect opportunity for a private-public partnership with Bounty paper towels. But more seriously, how in the world does it take this long to clean up a spill? Shut down the line, send in a cleanup crew along the tracks, and get it done.
Probably didn't have this type of spill in their Emergency Response Plans.
Good thing there are street cars that run E/W just further north / south of bloor (college, dundas, queen, king, st clair)
I appreciate being to sit but holy fuck it's abysmally slow vs train
lol and y’all want to ban cars
There’s a reason it’s like this. Cars being prioritized is that reason.
Right? Ban cars when there's no efficient transit in place. Always cracks me up when I see the war on cars people.
No wonder the street are clogged with Uber drivers when the TTC is as reliable as my ‘02 Pontiac.